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View Full Version : Reaction to a trade for another starter


Jerry_Manuel
05-14-2002, 04:36 PM
I was sitting here the other day, wondering what the reaction would be, if the Sox traded for another pitcher. Then it hit me, no matter what happens people will be pissed.

If they trade away a prospect like Crede or Rauch to get someone, people will be saying "Williams needs to go", etc. If they net a "big name" pitcher, people will bitch because they feel, there was a better option out there.

Anyone think I'm right? :?:

I guess it's all apart of being a fan, but I'm not so sure.

cheeses_h_rice
05-14-2002, 04:38 PM
You're correct, Jerry.

Some people just like to bitch.

Me, I'm content to stand pat until the trading crap heats up. The team that got punked out by the Angels was the same team taking 2 of 3 from the A's and M's and sweeping the Tribe.

FarWestChicago
05-14-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Anyone think I'm right? :?:

Yes, if we got Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling for Babe K Layton there would be people pissed. :smile:

Randar68
05-14-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I was sitting here the other day, wondering what the reaction would be, if the Sox traded for another pitcher. Then it hit me, no matter what happens people will be pissed.

If they trade away a prospect like Crede or Rauch to get someone, people will be saying "Williams needs to go", etc. If they net a "big name" pitcher, people will bitch because they feel, there was a better option out there.

Anyone think I'm right? :?:

I guess it's all apart of being a fan, but I'm not so sure.

Well, as long as Kenny overpays like the last one, then yes, people will bitch. I thought he overpaid but I like that he is trying and we needed that help now, not 3-4 years down the road. Good trade.

However, you have a great point and I can't say you wouldn't see a bitch-fest if one did happen.

Jerry_Manuel
05-14-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Yes, if we got Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling for Babe K Layton there would be people pissed. :smile:

And who could blame them? :smile:

bjmarte
05-14-2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

Anyone think I'm right? :?:

I guess it's all apart of being a fan, but I'm not so sure.

I'm not sure it would be the same people pissed in both situations but there is no doubt that there is nothing to be done to make even the fans on this board happy, let alone every fan everywhere. I'm not sure that it is that unusual though.

Jerry_Manuel
05-14-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
You're correct, Jerry.

Some people just like to bitch.

Me, I'm content to stand pat until the trading crap heats up. The team that got punked out by the Angels was the same team taking 2 of 3 from the A's and M's and sweeping the Tribe.

Thanks, Cheeses. I think the Sox should just wait and see how the rotation shakes down when Biddle is healthy. If Rocky can step up and do the job, I think they shouldn't make a move.


Originally posted by Randar68
Well, as long as Kenny overpays like the last one, then yes, people will bitch. I thought he overpaid but I like that he is trying and we needed that help now, not 3-4 years down the road. Good trade.


Hopefully, Kenny has learned something from his previous deals.

34 Inch Stick
05-14-2002, 05:02 PM
Why would we wait to trade. No matter how well Wright, Garland, Biddle or Glover do I would hate to see any of them pitch game 3 of a playoff series. Get the 3rd starter now and let others worry about trades later in the year.

80% percent of the world is made of pessimists (including me). I only bitch to fit in.

RedPinStripes
05-14-2002, 05:06 PM
Depends on my mood that day. :)

hold2dibber
05-14-2002, 05:08 PM
I don't think the reaction here, or among Sox fans generally, would be any different than that of the reaction by any team's fans. With respect to just about any trade, some people are going to like it and some people are going to dislike it. The people who dislike it will bitch about it. As someone else noted, if we trade Clayton for Schilling, probably most people will be happy. If we trade Magglio for Bere, probably most people will be unhappy. Anything in the middle, you'll have your supporters and your detractors, depending on the particulars.

I believe they should make a deal for another starter. But, of course, I only advocate good deals! :D: For instance, I wouldn't give up much for Scott Erickson or Bere, but I would trade some true talent (e.g., one or two of Crede, Valentin, Rowand, Rauch) to pick up Weaver or Suppan, etc. It all depends on the particulars.

Chisox353014
05-14-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
With respect to just about any trade, some people are going to like it and some people are going to dislike it. The people who dislike it will bitch about it. As someone else noted, if we trade Clayton for Schilling, probably most people will be happy. If we trade Magglio for Bere, probably most people will be unhappy. Anything in the middle, you'll have your supporters and your detractors, depending on the particulars.


That sums it up pretty well, although I think there may be slightly more negative reaction from Sox fans compared to most other teams because:
1. We're Sox fans-we care a lot and tend to swing on the realistic to pessimistic axis more due to the whole 85 years and waiting thing
2. Although the Lofton and Ritchie deals have helped his rep a lot, KW has done his share of head-scratchers in the past. Barry-Berry anyone?

hold2dibber
05-14-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014


That sums it up pretty well, although I think there may be slightly more negative reaction from Sox fans compared to most other teams because:
1. We're Sox fans-we care a lot and tend to swing on the realistic to pessimistic axis more due to the whole 85 years and waiting thing
2. Although the Lofton and Ritchie deals have helped his rep a lot, KW has done his share of head-scratchers in the past. Barry-Berry anyone?

I totally agree (although I note that 85 plus years of waiting hasn't made Cubs fans realistic/pessimistic, suggesting either that we're just inherently surly or they're just inherently stupid - or both).

RadioHead PH
05-14-2002, 09:11 PM
People will always bitch at the beginning. When the Sox first got Ritchie the bitchers were all over the place. As people see he can pitch better than most, the bitching has calmed.

If we end up getting another David Wells type deal, then the bitchers will never cease...and i could see why.

Procol Harum
05-14-2002, 11:57 PM
I agree with those who urge more of a wait and see, if only becuase we may be more likely to get a decent pitcher from a team that is utterly convinced they haven't a prayer of winning a wild card slot.

In terms of what we might offer, I think ol' KW has done enough to strip us of arms in the minors. And while just for the sake of Joe Crede's career I could see surrendering him, I'm pretty much burned out on unloading prospects--we need to keep something developing on the farm. Durham, Lee and someone like a Rauch, a Liefer or a Rowand should constitute our dealing pool.

soxwon
05-15-2002, 12:28 AM
i agree, lets not trade BORCHARD crede, rauch possibly but not borchard!!
if i were kenny w id make the trade and say hell with what everyone says, get a pitcher soon.

GASHWOUND
05-15-2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by RadioHead PH
People will always bitch at the beginning. When the Sox first got Ritchie the bitchers were all over the place. As people see he can pitch better than most, the bitching has calmed.

If we end up getting another David Wells type deal, then the bitchers will never cease...and i could see why.

Yeah, smoke came out of people's ears when we traded Guerrier for Marte. That has calm down a little since for the most part Marte has done a good job for us.

GASHWOUND
05-15-2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I was sitting here the other day, wondering what the reaction would be, if the Sox traded for another pitcher. Then it hit me, no matter what happens people will be pissed.

If they trade away a prospect like Crede or Rauch to get someone, people will be saying "Williams needs to go", etc. If they net a "big name" pitcher, people will bitch because they feel, there was a better option out there.

Anyone think I'm right? :?:

I guess it's all apart of being a fan, but I'm not so sure.

Any trade in the last few years the Sox have made that have pissd you off? Just curious

voodoochile
05-15-2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Any trade in the last few years the Sox have made that have pissd you off? Just curious

For me, the answer has been not, not on the surface. As time has passed, I have not been happy with the K-layton (great nickname, whoever thought of it) trade, but not because of what we gave up.

Wasn't too pleased with the JB trade, but again because of the Berry/Barry thing, not because I thought they should hold onto JB.

I really like the Marte trade. He is going to be a real solid reliever for us and might even develop into a closer.

I know you didn't ask me, but what the heck, there are my opinions.

GASHWOUND
05-15-2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


For me, the answer has been not, not on the surface. As time has passed, I have not been happy with the K-layton (great nickname, whoever thought of it) trade, but not because of what we gave up.

Wasn't too pleased with the JB trade, but again because of the Berry/Barry thing, not because I thought they should hold onto JB.

I really like the Marte trade. He is going to be a real solid reliever for us and might even develop into a closer.

I know you didn't ask me, but what the heck, there are my opinions.

Yeah, I haven't been "soooo" pissed that smoke came out of my ears with any recent trades, but I have been upset a little by a few of them. I wish we could've kept Fogg..I know its after the fact now cause he's pitching lights out...but I saw real potential when he was up with us last year.
Butwas curious if Jer has ever been really upset at any trades the Sox have made cause I don't even remeber him being so...and he brought up the question about us bitching.

ISUSoxfan
05-15-2002, 05:24 AM
I want a good 3rd starter, but I'm afraid Williams is gonna trade away a player that helps us as a team beyond his individual numbers, like Durham or Valentin. Durham always performs in big games, and Valentin is the guy I want at the plate and in the field when the game is on the line. He'll make more than his share of errors, but he makes great plays when it really counts. Clayton is the opposite, and we should trade him for half a bag of batting practice baseballs if anyone is dumb enough to take him off our hands.

We're gonna need a quality 3rd starter who can win us games in the playoffs, but we also need all of the good players we have now. If we had just signed JB in the off-season, we wouldn't need to give up anything for a 3rd starter. Williams should have solved the problem when he had an easy way to do it. Now he's gonna have to give up a lot to get a pitcher as good as Baldwin, and I will be mad, not at the deal itself, but at the fact he could have gotten a good pitcher for a reasonable salary without trading anyone away.

Jerry_Manuel
05-15-2002, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
Any trade in the last few years the Sox have made that have pissd you off? Just curious

I remember I was pissed when I heard the Erstad deal had Garland involved.

RedPinStripes
05-15-2002, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I remember I was pissed when I heard the Erstad deal had Garland involved.

Thankfully that fell through. i didn't like that at all.

pearso66
05-15-2002, 06:02 PM
by the way, which side was it that discontinued talks of howry for gagne, sure howry isnt doing THAT bad, but gagne looks pretty lights out over there in LA

doublem23
05-16-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Hopefully, Kenny has learned something from his previous deals.

Get the name right on the press release?

:KW
I'm still not sure who we got from LA for Baldwin...