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View Full Version : Official Sox win for Doub's Birthday Postgame Thread


doublem23
09-03-2008, 02:20 PM
:cool:

Discuss.

thomas35forever
09-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Let's go home, folks!:bandance:

aryzner
09-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Thank the lord. Go Blue Jays tonight!

salty99
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
A White Sox Winner and the McRib returns! What else could possibly go right today?

PicktoCLick72
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
Here comes the 9-1 homestand we're looking for.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
Finally. Let's get home, rest up, watch the Blue Jays beat the Twins.

I hope my baseball team gets their 1st win tonight...and the Sox regain sole possession of 1st. Go Jays! & Bombers!!

doublem23
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
A White Sox Winner and the McRib returns! What else could possibly go right today?

Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

Marqhead
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
Good pick me up for a boring day at work.

Go Jays!

whitesox4eva
09-03-2008, 02:21 PM
whose Alexei Cabrera? :scratch: XD

OldRomanPizza
09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
They needed a win. They got a win. The rest is just details.

kidmccarthy
09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Great win. Javy was very strong, and our big guns (Tcq, Thome) got some more rest. Bobby looked great and all the pressure is on the Twins tonight.

DumpJerry
09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
doublem23 needs more birthdays this month.

stl_sox_fan
09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Today should be the last day for the Hold stat. Thornton earned one today. What gives?

Way to finish up with a win. Now they get to ride that momentum right into an off day.

ChiSox89
09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
big, big win today. Sox win, yessss!!!:bandance::bandance:


Let's go jays

kidmccarthy
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
A White Sox Winner and the McRib returns! What else could possibly go right today?

Really, the McRib is back! Light em up!

voodoochile
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
I love Bobby Jenks.

Hurry back Scotty...

:winner

:bandance:

:)

:moonwalk:

October26
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
:happybday to doublem23! Time to celebrate this White sox winner (okay after work!) :bandance:

Kilroy
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

Yes it would... Twins loss is all I need. The rest is just gravy, baby. Just gravy. Wait... its your birthday. Blow those candles and ask for whatever you want. Greed be damned!

beasly213
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Nice game Javy. Not so nice game by Thorton though.

I'll take the win now let's get home and put together a winning streak!

please! :smile:

ElevenUp
09-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Those 2 double plays for Jenks were huge! When was the last time he had a 5 out save?

Gammons Peter
09-03-2008, 02:24 PM
way too stressfull for me, I had to turn off the radio a couple of times and follow along in the gameday thread

cheezheadsoxfan
09-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

Sounds good to me. I'll be greedy with you.

:smile:

Carolina Kenny
09-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Jenks is All Star. Missle can drive in runs no matter where in the lineup you play him. Getz is not as fast as Wise. Javy is Javy. Sox defense can be spotty at times but we sure can turn a DP with the best of them, Danggummit.

AJ Burnett (16-10) goes for the Jays tonight at home vs the Twinkies.

Sox escape Tribetown with a victory. Keep moving boys.

Britt Burns
09-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Bad Bobby!!! Yes!

wilburaga
09-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Quentin gets deserved consideration for AL MVP, but (IMHO) there's no player more valuable to the Sox than Bobby Jenks.

W

Foulke You
09-03-2008, 02:27 PM
I mentioned this in the game thread but we went 4W-6L on this road trip but it seemed a whole lot worse because of the butt kickings we received during it. In reality we played about status quo for what we do on the road this year. We just need to heat up at home again like we normally do. Winning 1 every 3 games isn't going to cut it in September.

I do have a feeling this offense has another huge hot streak in them. There is just too much resting lumber right now. Quentin, Griffey, Thome, Konerko, Swish, Dye, and AJ are all capable of getting red hot and hitting HRs in bunches. Let's hope it starts on this homestand. Oh, and go JAYS!

doublem23
09-03-2008, 02:27 PM
Those 2 double plays for Jenks were huge! When was the last time he had a 5 out save?

Never. He's had a few 4-out saves in his career, most recently August 17, 2006 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA200608170.shtml).

sox1970
09-03-2008, 02:28 PM
I like that the Twins get to see the Sox win before they take the field.

Good job by Javy.

Cuck the Fubs
09-03-2008, 02:29 PM
:bandance: YES! :bandance:

Now let's get home & take care of things :cool:

hose
09-03-2008, 02:31 PM
doublem23 needs more birthdays this month.

and next month:bandance:

hose
09-03-2008, 02:32 PM
McRibs for everyone:happybday

Frater Perdurabo
09-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Good to get the win in a reasonably tight game against an improving opponent who kicked out butts the last two nights.

Go Jays tonight.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-03-2008, 02:34 PM
For those who were talking a couple of days ago in another thread about trading Jenks because his K rate is declining and the Sox have get value for him before it's too late .... Today is more evidence why you've got to be out of your mind.

You can get outs a multitude of ways, and Jenks is very efficient this year. He got 5 outs with 10 pitches today. He makes them hit his pitch, and he gets a good deal of ground balls with the action he gets on his pitches. He has a ratio of 89 ground outs to 42 flyouts this year. He knows you can't throw 100 mph fastballs for long, and he is turning into a great pitcher with a number of out pitches.

Yeah, I think he's a keeper.

Soxman219
09-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

Not at all my friend. I was going to class right before the game hoping for a win now I can go to my last class of the day happy.

Harry Potter
09-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Today should be the last day for the Hold stat. Thornton earned one today. What gives?

(didn't read subsequent posts but...)

He was credited with a Hold, his 17th of the year

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore;_ylt=Aj9NYdWpBC.4MiFuqkv1rfU5nYcB?gid=280 903105

chisoxfanatic
09-03-2008, 02:40 PM
Wonderful! It's nice that Javy was able to have a quality outing. Hopefully this gets him back on track.

1989
09-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

not for a birthday present! :happybday

hawkjt
09-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Bobby saved the bullpen from getting scorched by Ozzie...he was so disgusted with the walks.
I feared the Indians coming in here...they have played the best in the AL central over the last two weeks. Its not who you play but when you play them. We need Burnett to shut down the twins tonite and then the sox need to get ready for the angels and jays. This is going to be nerve-wracking.

JB98
09-03-2008, 02:48 PM
I think Guillen made an excellent move by going to Jenks in the eighth. Even if it had backfired, it was the right thing to do. I'm sick and tired of middle relievers walking guys and getting beat on their secondary pitches. Thornton hung a slider to Choo in the eighth. He's fortunate that was hit for a single and not a 2-run HR.

This was a game the Sox needed to have, and I didn't want to see this end in a loss with Dotel or Thornton on the mound. Make the opposition beat Jenks. History shows that 90 percent of the time, the opposition ain't gonna get it done against Jenks. Today was no exception to the rule.

I know Jenks takes heat here for his declining K rate, but the guy has just been outstanding ever since coming back off the DL. Five outs in 10 pitches. Tremendous job of closing a game.

Zisk77
09-03-2008, 02:48 PM
My head's killing me, I can't find my damn keys, and i wasn't drinking. :angry: I'm going to sleep. Good win, go jays! Someone plz find my keys.

EMachine10
09-03-2008, 02:51 PM
My head's killing me, I can't find my damn keys, and i wasn't drinking. :angry: I'm going to sleep. Good win, go jays! Someone plz find my keys.

I'll keep an eye out:cool:

Law11
09-03-2008, 02:56 PM
I think Guillen made an excellent move by going to Jenks in the eighth. Even if it had backfired, it was the right thing to do. Tremendous job of closing a game.

and with the day off tomorrow this was the right call.

chisoxfanatic
09-03-2008, 02:58 PM
I'll keep an eye out:cool:
Don't you mean you'll KEYP an eye out? :wink:

turners56
09-03-2008, 02:58 PM
Definitely a must-win game. Javy pitched pretty well and Jenks came in to neutralize 5 outs. Ozzie managed this game like a must-win, that's what I like to see.

A 4-5 roadtrip isn't so bad, but we could of done better.

nccwsfan
09-03-2008, 02:59 PM
A win is a win is a win.

Now let's enjoy the day off and start off the homestand on a good note...

EMachine10
09-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Don't you mean you'll KEYP an eye out? :wink:
Ah, most certainly. Nice catch.

oeo
09-03-2008, 03:04 PM
and with the day off tomorrow this was the right call.

Jenks was so efficient that he could pitch tomorrow if we were playing.

I know Ozzie hates bringing Jenks in for more than a 3 out save. When he stopped doing it last year, Jenks went on that long run of consecutive outs. But today was a pleasant surprise.

TDog
09-03-2008, 03:05 PM
The White Sox won with Josh Fields and Chris Getz in the DH spot. (I believe Getz has run for Thome before, though).

They won without Quentin. I hope he is able to play Friday against the Angels. Actually, Quentin is 0-for-6 against Weaver this year with four strikeouts, a foul out to the catcher and (in what may have felt like a moral victory) a groundout. But Weaver has pitched very well against just about everyone on the Sox this year. He has pitched 15 shutout innings in two outings.

Bobby Jenks, I believe, is a better closer now than when he was a strikeout pitcher, although the game-ender was nice work. His line shows that he worked 1.2 innings, but he only threw 10 pitches. No worries. The Sox are off on Thursday.

When was the last time you saw a White Sox closer get a save and get two doubleplays in the process. I don't know if I've seen that since LaMarr Hoyt or Wilbur Wood (before they evolved into 20-game winners), who used to routinely pitch the last two or three innings for the save.

Vazquez pitched well, certainly much better than Richard and Danks, but not as well as Floyd the last time on this road trip the Sox won 4-2 to salvage the last game of a three-game road series, aka Sunday in Boston. Vazquez should have worked out of the sixth without being scored on, although the inning began with runners on second and third with none out. Still, he wouldn't have had enough left for the seventh. Six innings per start isn't going to get the job done.

Vazquez of late has been a reliable starter of late, though. He could be the right man at the right time this season as Contreras was in 2005.

TDog
09-03-2008, 03:11 PM
For those who were talking a couple of days ago in another thread about trading Jenks because his K rate is declining and the Sox have get value for him before it's too late .... Today is more evidence why you've got to be out of your mind. ...

I am so happy I missed that thread.

The people (who probably know just enough about baseball to pose such ill-conceived arguments) are probably happy I missed that thread.

Frankfan4life
09-03-2008, 03:15 PM
The Sox will be in first place for at least two more days. What a relief!! I'll finally be able to get a good night's sleep.

FielderJones
09-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Never. He's had a few 4-out saves in his career, most recently August 17, 2006 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA200608170.shtml).

He had a 6-out save on October 5, 2005 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B10050CHA2005.htm) :tongue:


Today's save was huge. Really needed to get back on track, and Bobby did it. I don't know what is going on with the rest of the bullpen. :scratch:

turners56
09-03-2008, 03:16 PM
The Sox will be in first place for at least two more days. What a relief!! I'll finally be able to get a good night's sleep.

Try 1. If the Twins win the next two games, we'll be half a game back. :whiner:

GoSox2K3
09-03-2008, 03:22 PM
Poor munchman, he must be disappointed. The Sox won and he can't say "I told you so" today.

Konerko05
09-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Vazquez should have worked out of the sixth without being scored on, although the inning began with runners on second and third with none out.

Vazquez probably would have made it out scoreless if he didn't shake off the curveball. He knew it walking back to the dugout.

Frankfan4life
09-03-2008, 03:24 PM
Try 1. If the Twins win the next two games, we'll be half a game back. :whiner:Oh, nooo!!! :mg: I'd better get some sleeping pills just in case.

ms620
09-03-2008, 03:27 PM
I am so happy I missed that thread.

The people (who probably know just enough about baseball to pose such ill-conceived arguments) are probably happy I missed that thread.

I would not trade Jenks, and I was not part of that thread. But Tdog, seriously, you are just so arrogant its unbelievable. I mean all you do is post about stuff that you said that came true. Or how what other people post is incorrect. You do not watch the games. You have imaginary conversations with Don Cooper. Let people say what they want without every time coming up with this BS about how you are the only one who knows anything about baseball. B/c frankly, I do not think you know much at all.

johnnyg83
09-03-2008, 03:29 PM
I mentioned this in the game thread but we went 4W-6L on this road trip but it seemed a whole lot worse because of the butt kickings we received during it.

Amen. It felt like 2-8.

munchman33
09-03-2008, 03:37 PM
I didn't realize we were playing. This is a nice mid-afternoon office surprise. :D:

Noneck
09-03-2008, 03:45 PM
It was nice to see the horses being ridden that got the Sox to this point. (Dotel, Thornton, Jenks) I hope this continues and we don't see pitchers and players being put in critical situations at this stage of the season when they were not good enough previously to be on the team. (Owens, Fields, Logan)

hi im skot
09-03-2008, 03:49 PM
I would not trade Jenks, and I was not part of that thread. But Tdog, seriously, you are just so arrogant its unbelievable. I mean all you do is post about stuff that you said that came true. Or how what other people post is incorrect. You do not watch the games. You have imaginary conversations with Don Cooper. Let people say what they want without every time coming up with this BS about how you are the only one who knows anything about baseball. B/c frankly, I do not think you know much at all.

The Sox won. Let's all be friends today.

Chez
09-03-2008, 04:06 PM
The Sox won. Let's all be friends today.

Perfect. Cue the Heneiken "It's Love" song.

hi im skot
09-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Perfect. Cue the Heneiken "It's Love" song.

Worst. Song. Ever.

whitesox901
09-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Good Win, that squirral was having fun as well! :D:

TDog
09-03-2008, 04:11 PM
I would not trade Jenks, and I was not part of that thread. But Tdog, seriously, you are just so arrogant its unbelievable. I mean all you do is post about stuff that you said that came true. Or how what other people post is incorrect. You do not watch the games. You have imaginary conversations with Don Cooper. Let people say what they want without every time coming up with this BS about how you are the only one who knows anything about baseball. B/c frankly, I do not think you know much at all.

First of all, you know nothing about me. I've paid to see hundreds of baseball games, and I've been been to games I didn't even have to pay to see. (My first press pass to Old Comiskey was from 1977 I think. I have a photograph hanging in a downtown Modesto art gallery showing Harry Caray signing autographs for kids who are holding 1977 programs.) I have a lot of experience with baseball, and I've never had imaginary conversations with anyone. I never said I am the only one who knows anything about baseball. There are plenty of people on this board who know what they are talking about, and I frequently disagree with them on matters of philosophy.

But if you are suggesting it's a no-brainer to take out a starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth with two on with his team is down by two runs in a regular season, non-do-or-die game to be proactive, you reflect a minority of opinion among people with experience in following major league baseball. It was no different from Guillen leaving Danks in facing Frank Thomas with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth and a 2-1 lead in Oakland when I could see from my seat behind home plate that he had nothing. Yes, it was different. He got Thomas to ground into a doubleplay and retired the next six hitters before the bullpen held the A's hitless for three innings, highlighted by Thornton striking out the side and Jenks getting the A's in order for the save. Danks gave up the hit Tuesday night, but I'm not a second-guesser. If you knew what a pitcher would do in a given situation, you could always make the right move. Danks, good stuff or bad, has gotten out of such spots in the early innings all year.

I have never seen a manager take out a healthy, albeit shaky, starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth after giving up only two runs and go on to win the game. I've seen teams come back after their starter gets knocked out early in the game, but those weren't low-scoring games. Taking out Danks there would have been a bizarre move. As I posted at the time, Danks only going four would probably lead to the bullpen scoring more in the later innings.

If you think that's BS, you are mistaken.

Konerko05
09-03-2008, 04:15 PM
Worst. Song. Ever.

Words can not express how much I hate that song. I'm really glad we dont' have to hear it 10 times a game anymore.

During one game after the Sox bullpen just blew a lead, I felt the song was taunting me. I've never felt that much anger towards a commercial.

Chez
09-03-2008, 04:20 PM
Words can not express how much I hate that song. I'm really glad we dont' have to hear it 10 times a game anymore.

During one game after the Sox bullpen just blew a lead, I felt the song was taunting me. I've never felt that much anger towards a commercial.

Relax. It was my attempt at irony. Ironically, neither you nor Skot picked up on it. I guess I should have used teal? But it's all good -- Sox won and we are all friends (no irony).

kittle42
09-03-2008, 04:20 PM
First of all, you know nothing about me. I've paid to see hundreds of baseball games, and I've been been to games I didn't even have to pay to see. (My first press pass to Old Comiskey was from 1977 I think. I have a photograph hanging in a downtown Modesto art gallery showing Harry Caray signing autographs for kids who are holding 1977 programs.) I have a lot of experience with baseball, and I've never had imaginary conversations with anyone. I never said I am the only one who knows anything about baseball. There are plenty of people on this board who know what they are talking about, and I frequently disagree with them on matters of philosophy.

But if you are suggesting it's a no-brainer to take out a starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth with two on with his team is down by two runs in a regular season, non-do-or-die game to be proactive, you reflect a minority of opinion among people with experience in following major league baseball. It was no different from Guillen leaving Danks in facing Frank Thomas with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth and a 2-1 lead in Oakland when I could see from my seat behind home plate that he had nothing. Yes, it was different. He got Thomas to ground into a doubleplay and retired the next six hitters before the bullpen held the A's hitless for three innings, highlighted by Thornton striking out the side and Jenks getting the A's in order for the save. Danks gave up the hit Tuesday night, but I'm not a second-guesser. If you knew what a pitcher would do in a given situation, you could always make the right move. Danks, good stuff or bad, has gotten out of such spots in the early innings all year.

I have never seen a manager take out a healthy, albeit shaky, starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth after giving up only two runs and go on to win the game. I've seen teams come back after their starter gets knocked out early in the game, but those weren't low-scoring games. Taking out Danks there would have been a bizarre move. As I posted at the time, Danks only going four would probably lead to the bullpen scoring more in the later innings.

If you think that's BS, you are mistaken.

I always love game threads or post-game threads where people act like it was common sense that a struggling starter should have been lifted at the exact moment before he gave up a big hit early in a game. These claims are often not made with any attention being paid toward how much a bullpen has been taxed, who is available, or absolutely any foresight beyond one situation in one game.

TDog, you and I disagree on some things when it comes to pitching and statistics, but you are dead right here.

hi im skot
09-03-2008, 04:22 PM
Relax. It was my attempt at irony. Ironically, neither you nor Skot picked up on it. I guess I should have used teal? But it's all good -- Sox won and we are all friends (no irony).

I think we got the joke...we just hate the song that much. :cool:

Foulke You
09-03-2008, 04:27 PM
Perfect. Cue the Heneiken "It's Love" song.
I can never find the mute button quick enough when that friggin commercial comes on. I agree with skot...worst song ever!

chisoxfanatic
09-03-2008, 04:30 PM
I can never find the mute button quick enough when that friggin commercial comes on. I agree with skot...worst song ever!
They must've received thousands of emails about it. I haven't heard it in a while now (not that I'm complaining). I much prefer the one where they play that Squeeze song as the beer bottle's being passed back.

Hendu
09-03-2008, 04:31 PM
Wow, we needed this...especially with the line-up today. Now let's kick some butt on that home stand.

chisoxfanatic
09-03-2008, 04:34 PM
Wow, we needed this...especially with the line-up today. Now let's kick some butt on that home stand.
I still can't believe we won with that lineup. I'll take it though.

Konerko05
09-03-2008, 04:36 PM
Relax. It was my attempt at irony. Ironically, neither you nor Skot picked up on it. I guess I should have used teal? But it's all good -- Sox won and we are all friends (no irony).

Ironically, you have now brought us all together with our hatred for said song.

hi im skot
09-03-2008, 04:45 PM
Ironically, you have now brought us all together with our hatred for said song.

:hug:

TDog
09-03-2008, 04:53 PM
Vazquez probably would have made it out scoreless if he didn't shake off the curveball. He knew it walking back to the dugout.

Obviously, I don't know what was going on in the minds of the hitter and pitcher in that situation, but I have been told when most pitchers shake off signs in a crucial situations, they are telling the hitter a fastball is coming.

I wonder if Vazquez would have been better suited conferring with Hall on the mound. They could have used the pretext of changing the signs with a runner on second. At least the Sox won and no harm was done in the big picture.

johnnyg83
09-03-2008, 05:06 PM
Bringing together people through hatred is how most political parties are formed.

#1swisher
09-03-2008, 05:10 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

not at all...after all it's your birthday. make a wish.:gulp:
:happybday

doublem23
09-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Bringing together people through hatred is how most political parties are formed.

Watch the politics...

ms620
09-03-2008, 06:55 PM
First of all, you know nothing about me. I've paid to see hundreds of baseball games, and I've been been to games I didn't even have to pay to see. (My first press pass to Old Comiskey was from 1977 I think. I have a photograph hanging in a downtown Modesto art gallery showing Harry Caray signing autographs for kids who are holding 1977 programs.) I have a lot of experience with baseball, and I've never had imaginary conversations with anyone. I never said I am the only one who knows anything about baseball. There are plenty of people on this board who know what they are talking about, and I frequently disagree with them on matters of philosophy.

But if you are suggesting it's a no-brainer to take out a starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth with two on with his team is down by two runs in a regular season, non-do-or-die game to be proactive, you reflect a minority of opinion among people with experience in following major league baseball. It was no different from Guillen leaving Danks in facing Frank Thomas with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth and a 2-1 lead in Oakland when I could see from my seat behind home plate that he had nothing. Yes, it was different. He got Thomas to ground into a doubleplay and retired the next six hitters before the bullpen held the A's hitless for three innings, highlighted by Thornton striking out the side and Jenks getting the A's in order for the save. Danks gave up the hit Tuesday night, but I'm not a second-guesser. If you knew what a pitcher would do in a given situation, you could always make the right move. Danks, good stuff or bad, has gotten out of such spots in the early innings all year.

I have never seen a manager take out a healthy, albeit shaky, starting pitcher with two outs in the fourth after giving up only two runs and go on to win the game. I've seen teams come back after their starter gets knocked out early in the game, but those weren't low-scoring games. Taking out Danks there would have been a bizarre move. As I posted at the time, Danks only going four would probably lead to the bullpen scoring more in the later innings.

If you think that's BS, you are mistaken.

You are missing the point. Since I starting posting here, I always see you put down posters for their opinions. You then refer to those certain moments over and over again, much like you did in the above post. It is fine to have your own opinions. Everyone does. I just think its arrogant the way you post. I dont care if you know Don Cooper, Ozzie Guillen, or Jesus. The fact is this. Before Ozzie took out Danks, if I said they should pull him before the 5th, you would say that you cannot pull a starter after 4 innings. You would call that a bizarre move. You continuously preach about saving our bullpen for September, when you failed to consider our starters innings. But just keep referring to that Oakland game, the ONE game you actually WATCHED this season.

doublem23
09-03-2008, 07:01 PM
The faster the two of you shut up, the happier I will be.

SBSoxFan
09-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Would it be greedy for me to ask for a Twins, Red Sox, and Cubs loss?

:praying:

Except I think the Red Sox had already won by the time the Sox game was over. So don't be sad, 'cause 2 out 3 aint bad.

turners56
09-03-2008, 07:33 PM
You are missing the point. Since I starting posting here, I always see you put down posters for their opinions. You then refer to those certain moments over and over again, much like you did in the above post. It is fine to have your own opinions. Everyone does. I just think its arrogant the way you post. I dont care if you know Don Cooper, Ozzie Guillen, or Jesus. The fact is this. Before Ozzie took out Danks, if I said they should pull him before the 5th, you would say that you cannot pull a starter after 4 innings. You would call that a bizarre move. You continuously preach about saving our bullpen for September, when you failed to consider our starters innings. But just keep referring to that Oakland game, the ONE game you actually WATCHED this season.

It is a bizarre move. Would you like the bullpen to take over in that 4th inning? It's September, we have tired arms. If anything, Ozzie was going to end up throwing Ehren Wasserman in there to relieve Danks. Would you really want that? It's not like we have a good Nick Masset or a Taylor Buccholz in our bullpen. We have a bunch of AAAA guys who don't even deserve to pitch in the Majors. I had no problem with Ozzie keeping him in the game.

doublem23
09-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Except I think the Red Sox had already won by the time the Sox game was over. So don't be sad, 'cause 2 out 3 aint bad.

A Twins loss alone would really make my day; the Saux and Scrubs would just be extra icing on the cake.

BoysMom3
09-03-2008, 08:00 PM
It's extra great having a Sox win on a WSI b-day. Here's to hoping for that Twins' loss. :gulp:

BoysMom3
09-03-2008, 08:01 PM
They must've received thousands of emails about it. I haven't heard it in a while now (not that I'm complaining). I much prefer the one where they play that Squeeze song as the beer bottle's being passed back.

Me too! Love Squeeze, especially that song (Tempted)!

russ99
09-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Nice job by the Sox gutting out that win. Hopefully some home cooking vs. the soon to clinch Angels futa us back on a roll.

EuroSox35
09-03-2008, 08:25 PM
We're getting ourselves a nice record during day games, I know others would, but I wouldn't mind multiple day games in the DS

Mohoney
09-03-2008, 09:18 PM
For those who were talking a couple of days ago in another thread about trading Jenks because his K rate is declining and the Sox have get value for him before it's too late .... Today is more evidence why you've got to be out of your mind.

You can get outs a multitude of ways, and Jenks is very efficient this year. He got 5 outs with 10 pitches today. He makes them hit his pitch, and he gets a good deal of ground balls with the action he gets on his pitches. He has a ratio of 89 ground outs to 42 flyouts this year. He knows you can't throw 100 mph fastballs for long, and he is turning into a great pitcher with a number of out pitches.

Yeah, I think he's a keeper.

Anybody that would want to trade a closer that has given up 1 HR in 51 IP is crazy. Screw that "getting value" crap. You're not going to get back something as valuable as keeping the ball in the park like that.

TDog
09-03-2008, 09:28 PM
You are missing the point. Since I starting posting here, I always see you put down posters for their opinions. You then refer to those certain moments over and over again, much like you did in the above post. It is fine to have your own opinions. Everyone does. I just think its arrogant the way you post. I dont care if you know Don Cooper, Ozzie Guillen, or Jesus. The fact is this. Before Ozzie took out Danks, if I said they should pull him before the 5th, you would say that you cannot pull a starter after 4 innings. You would call that a bizarre move. You continuously preach about saving our bullpen for September, when you failed to consider our starters innings. But just keep referring to that Oakland game, the ONE game you actually WATCHED this season.

I disagree with people all the time. Kittle42, for example, alluded to the fact that we have some philosophical differences. I think we still respect each other. You, on the other hand, personally attacked me.

I have attended more than one game this year, and I've seen the Sox play in the Bay Area and in Chicago. The Danks game in Oakland was the best example because it was the most recent situation where he didn't have his good stuff in a close game in the fourth inning and pitched out of trouble. That situation has not been uncommon for Danks this year, sometimes when he has great stuff and bad defense and sometimes when he has nothing. In the past with success.

Danks has not been overworked this year. None of the starters have. They have (with the exception of a Buehrle start and a couple of relief appearances by fifth starters) had at least four days rest between starts. Relievers wear differently because they pitch with different patterns of rest and sometimes their innings pitched don't reflect the games where they warmed up and didn't pitch.

Danks probably won't pitch 200 innings this year. The innings pitched by the starters haven't been a concern because White Sox starters haven't come close to being overworked.

Noneck
09-03-2008, 09:42 PM
Danks has not been overworked this year.

Danks probably won't pitch 200 innings this year. The innings pitched by the starters haven't been a concern because White Sox starters haven't come close to being overworked.

Overworked by major league standard, No, but considering Danks has pitched more this year than any other year in his professional career, he may be overworked.

aryzner
09-03-2008, 09:45 PM
Birthday wishes DO come true! (For the most part)

:twinslose

TDog
09-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Overworked by major league standard, No, but considering Danks has pitched more this year than any other year in his professional career, he may be overworked.

There is a difference between being overworked and not developing into the season-long major-league starter he was projected to be at the beginning of the season. He usually only pitches six innings. He has pitched less more than he has pitched seen or more innings just five times in 28 starts. He has pitched less than six innings five times in 28 starts.

I had hoped that he would have been able to go deeper into this season after his experience in 2007. I hope Danks is just going though a dead-arm period or something from which he can recover. More often than not, good pitchers get their second wind in October and dominate in the postseason.

voodoochile
09-03-2008, 10:23 PM
There is a difference between being overworked and not developing into the season-long major-league starter he was projected to be at the beginning of the season. He usually only pitches six innings. He has pitched less more than he has pitched seen or more innings just five times in 28 starts. He has pitched less than six innings five times in 28 starts.

I had hoped that he would have been able to go deeper into this season after his experience in 2007. I hope Danks is just going though a dead-arm period or something from which he can recover. More often than not, good pitchers get their second wind in October and dominate in the postseason.

He's also only 22.

Noneck
09-03-2008, 10:25 PM
There is a difference between being overworked and not developing into the season-long major-league starter he was projected to be at the beginning of the season.

And if not developing into the season-long major-league starter is a result of the number of innings pitched, it may mean that he was overworked at this point of his career. I do understand your point but at his age and with his experience, what he is going through may be a result of pitching too many innings, which can be termed as overworked.

slavko
09-03-2008, 11:01 PM
Anybody that would want to trade a closer that has given up 1 HR in 51 IP is crazy. Screw that "getting value" crap. You're not going to get back something as valuable as keeping the ball in the park like that.

He's been like this since day one. He did give up one during a 2-inning (blown) save last year, to reference the comment about 2-inning saves earlier in the thread.

TDog
09-03-2008, 11:54 PM
And if not developing into the season-long major-league starter is a result of the number of innings pitched, it may mean that he was overworked at this point of his career. I do understand your point but at his age and with his experience, what he is going through may be a result of pitching too many innings, which can be termed as overworked.

My point is that if he is "overworked" in the beginning of September after pitching only with full or greater rest and averaging less than six innings a start, the problem would be that Danks wasn't ready to be an important starter in a contending rotation. My point is that Danks would have been a problem waiting to happen, perhaps rushed too fast into the majors. At the age of 20, he pitched 167 innings between Bakersfield, California, and Frisco, Texas, and he's almost there this year. He has publicly stated that pitching 200 innings was a goal he set for himself this year, but I don't believe he will make it, not though September anyway.

I don't believe Danks has been overworked. I don't believe the White Sox believe he has been overworked. I also don't believe that shaving an inning from each of his starts would make him a better pitcher now. At worst, I think Danks is going through a dead-arm period, from which he needs to recover. This is his first important September as a pro, and he needs to turn the corner to be the ace that a lot of people believe he could be.

When Mark Buehrle was 22, he pitched 221.1 innings in 32 starts, winning 16 games. It looks like that was more innings than he had pitched in the minors in two seasons combined. Of course, in 2001, the White Sox played an unimportant September and a lot of fans weren't paying enough attention to be impressed.

johnnyg83
09-04-2008, 12:00 AM
Danks is young... Buerhle's a different guy and getting tired has never seemed to be a problem.

Danks' improvement has been amazing. He went from bad 2007 to unbelievable 2008 based on expectations.

Noneck
09-04-2008, 08:36 AM
I don't believe Danks has been overworked. I don't believe the White Sox believe he has been overworked. I also don't believe that shaving an inning from each of his starts would make him a better pitcher now. At worst, I think Danks is going through a dead-arm period, from which he needs to recover. This is his first important September as a pro, and he needs to turn the corner to be the ace that a lot of people believe he could be.

When Mark Buehrle was 22, he pitched 221.1 innings in 32 starts, winning 16 games. It looks like that was more innings than he had pitched in the minors in two seasons combined. Of course, in 2001, the White Sox played an unimportant September and a lot of fans weren't paying enough attention to be impressed.

I hope you are right that he is not overworked and just because Buehrle did what he did at 22 doesn't mean Danks can do the same. We will see.

TDog
09-04-2008, 12:52 PM
I hope you are right that he is not overworked and just because Buehrle did what he did at 22 doesn't mean Danks can do the same. We will see.

Mark Buehrle has had a remarkable career that wasn't expected. He was drafted in the 38th round. When he was going to Jefferson College in Missouri, no one thought of him as a can't-miss prospect. John Danks was a first-round pick (ninth overall) out of the University of Arizona in Tucson and was regarded as can't miss. Every pitcher is different. Kerry Wood in his rookie season required 30 days rest before making the last start of his legendary rookie season. Justin Verlander started 30 regular season games and four postseason games in his rookie season. Granted his postseason ERA exceeded 5.

I'm not saying hte two should have similar career paths, that the issue of cumulative innings that Buehrle overcame in his first full season should not be an issue this year for Danks. But if Danks is going to be the ace that people believe he can be, he is going to have turn the corner. His current problems are probably more a function of his numbe of starts than innings pitched.

If it's natural for young pitchers to hit a wall and not recover when they pitch more than they ever have before, the Twins starting rotation, with Perkins, Blackburn and Slowey, is headed for disaster.

doublem23
09-04-2008, 01:03 PM
If it's natural for young pitchers to hit a wall and not recover when they pitch more than they ever have before, the Twins starting rotation, with Perkins, Blackburn and Slowey, is headed for disaster.

Slowey and Perkins have pitched 30 innings less than Danks has, not to mention Slowey pitched almost 200 innings last year between Minnesota and AAA.

As for Blackburn, the only guy who's thrown about as many innings as Danks has struggled in his last few starts.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?share=1&n1=blackni01&year=2008&t=p#30:34:sum

Young pitchers wearing down as the season goes isn't a terribly difficult concept to wrap your head around.

TDog
09-04-2008, 02:46 PM
...
Young pitchers wearing down as the season goes isn't a terribly difficult concept to wrap your head around.

It doesn't happen to all young pitchers, and it happens more frequently now than it did 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Part of that is that fewer pitchers weren't rushed to the majors. Even Dwight Gooden, who pitched 218 innings while winning 17 games for the 1984 Mets at the age of 19 pitched 191 innings the previous year in A ball.

It may be that the White Sox expected too much out of John Danks this year. Many of the baseball analysts vilified on this board contended as much in March. The White Sox certainly didn't overwork him in his starts. The Chicago media labeled Guillen an idiot for taking him out in the game he started at Wrigley Field, where he pitched six innings, threw just 85 pitches and was cruising. It could be that the White Sox would have been better off pitching Danks a full season in AAA this year (or even last year) to reach his stated goal of 200 innings. The White Sox obviously didn't have that luxury. In March and April, many at WSI disagreed with the columnists who questioned Danks' ability to make it through a season as a quality pitcher.

I don't believe the White Sox have overworked Danks. I don't believe he is done for the season by any means. I could be wrong. When the season is over, Kenny Williams may tell reporters that the White Sox overworked Danks. But if they did, it had nothing to do with leaving him in games too long. (From a competitive sense, they may have done that, in that he ceased to be an effective pitcher after the sixth, regardless of his pitch count. That is, in Oakland -- as much as some hate this example -- he was a better pitcher after 100 pitches in the sixth than he was in the third or fourth inning of the game, or in the 80s in the seventh against the Red Sox in Chicago.)

If Danks is done for the season, if he has hit the wall at the beginning of September, the only thing the White Sox have done wrong with him this year was make him a part of their starting rotation in April, or perhaps not shut him down for a month along the way (which would have been an odd thing to do).

doublem23
09-04-2008, 03:27 PM
It may be that the White Sox expected too much out of John Danks this year. Many of the baseball analysts vilified on this board contended as much in March. The White Sox certainly didn't overwork him in his starts. The Chicago media labeled Guillen an idiot for taking him out in the game he started at Wrigley Field, where he pitched six innings, threw just 85 pitches and was cruising. It could be that the White Sox would have been better off pitching Danks a full season in AAA this year (or even last year) to reach his stated goal of 200 innings. The White Sox obviously didn't have that luxury. In March and April, many at WSI disagreed with the columnists who questioned Danks' ability to make it through a season as a quality pitcher.

I don't believe the White Sox have overworked Danks. I don't believe he is done for the season by any means. I could be wrong. When the season is over, Kenny Williams may tell reporters that the White Sox overworked Danks. But if they did, it had nothing to do with leaving him in games too long. (From a competitive sense, they may have done that, in that he ceased to be an effective pitcher after the sixth, regardless of his pitch count. That is, in Oakland -- as much as some hate this example -- he was a better pitcher after 100 pitches in the sixth than he was in the third or fourth inning of the game, or in the 80s in the seventh against the Red Sox in Chicago.)

If Danks is done for the season, if he has hit the wall at the beginning of September, the only thing the White Sox have done wrong with him this year was make him a part of their starting rotation in April, or perhaps not shut him down for a month along the way (which would have been an odd thing to do).

:scratch: Danks and the tremendous season he's had, is one of the major reasons we're still playing meaningful games in the 1st week of September.

Can't see how anyone could be ragging on him, after all he's done this year.

kittle42
09-04-2008, 03:33 PM
:scratch: Danks and the tremendous season he's had, is one of the major reasons we're still playing meaningful games in the 1st week of September.

Can't see how anyone could be ragging on him, after all he's done this year.

I don't think he's ragging on Danks - just trying to come up with an explanation of why he may have hit a wall and what could have possibly been done differently at the beginning of the season.