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View Full Version : Brian Anderson should be starting every game against Lefties


shes
09-01-2008, 11:40 PM
I am absolutely shocked to see Anderson routinely ride the pine when we go up against left-handed pitching. He not only hits lefties at a better clip than either Jr or Swish (.651 and .760 OPS, respectively, vs. .863 for Brian), but he's also clearly the better defender and isn't a station-to-station baserunner. I just don't understand it. He's got seven homers in 65 at-bats against lefties. Jr. has 4 in 143 ABs.

Griffey, in fact, should never start against left-handers - not in Center and not to spell Thome at DH (Jim has an .864 OPS against LHP). It should be BA in CF, Konerko at 1B, and Thome at DH when we face lefties. This gives us our best possible offense and our best possible defense in this situation.

If my memory serves me well, BA started all of one game in August and only made appearances in blow-outs or as a late-inning pinch-runner. The guy is capable of so much more, but he isn't getting the opportunities that he has proven he deserves. BA could be a great part-time player for us, but in a completely different capacity.

I don't mean to bitch and moan, especially after such a disheartening loss, but it just seems so damn clear to me that the best White Sox lineup isn't taking the field roughly a quarter of the time, and that's just incredibly frustrating to watch.

WhiteSox5187
09-01-2008, 11:45 PM
Swisher is in the midst of a funk right now and Griffey is an awful option for CF...I wouldn't be opposed to throwing Anderson out there more often and resting Swisher a spell. Griffey contributes nothing to this team. He'll get the occasional basehit, but then again, so will Anderson.

ms620
09-02-2008, 05:38 AM
Swisher is in the midst of a funk right now and Griffey is an awful option for CF...I wouldn't be opposed to throwing Anderson out there more often and resting Swisher a spell. Griffey contributes nothing to this team. He'll get the occasional basehit, but then again, so will Anderson.

Brian Anderson's career OBP is .277. This year its .273. He has 36 hits this year, 7 of them home runs. He also has 8 walks in over 150 ABs while striking out almost 40 times. That is the type of hitter that should be starting? People here complain about the "all or nothing" offense, yet they want to start a guy who is hitting .230, does not walk, and strikes out a ton. While JR has not shown the power that he is capable of, he has already walked 10 times. I would take the chance on him getting hot, Swish getting out of this slump well before I would take the chance on Anderson suddenly figuring out how to hit.

WhiteSox5187
09-02-2008, 07:58 AM
Brian Anderson's career OBP is .277. This year its .273. He has 36 hits this year, 7 of them home runs. He also has 8 walks in over 150 ABs while striking out almost 40 times. That is the type of hitter that should be starting? People here complain about the "all or nothing" offense, yet they want to start a guy who is hitting .230, does not walk, and strikes out a ton. While JR has not shown the power that he is capable of, he has already walked 10 times. I would take the chance on him getting hot, Swish getting out of this slump well before I would take the chance on Anderson suddenly figuring out how to hit.
In the middle of a pennant race I want to start the best defender in a rather critical defensive position, yes.

jabrch
09-02-2008, 08:42 AM
Who is the least bad option? BA? JO? JR? Swoosh?

Right now, I don't have any idea... But I don't think any of them are the reason why we are where we are.

ms620
09-02-2008, 08:54 AM
In the middle of a pennant race I want to start the best defender in a rather critical defensive position, yes.

CF defense is not going to decide whether the sox make the postseason or not. You start the best overall option..and that is not Brian Anderson. He had a starting role on this team, and lost it. He has not been able to get it back. There are clearly reasons why.

btrain929
09-02-2008, 09:03 AM
Has he learned how to hit an offspeed pitch yet if it's not a hangar letter-high?






Didn't think so.

RockyMtnSoxFan
09-02-2008, 09:26 AM
I agree with the original post. Griffey's range in CF is bad enough that it can actually make a difference in a pennant race. Plus, if you compare the stats, Swisher = Anderson + walks - defense. Swisher walks about three times as much, but they strike out at about the same rate, hit home runs at about the same rate, and Anderson has the higher batting average. Plus, Anderson has some semblance of speed.

It's difficult enough to hit consistently in MLB. Without ever getting the opportunity to develop rhythm and see pitches regularly is even harder. To me, Anderson has accomplished much more at the plate this season than Swisher.

oeo
09-02-2008, 09:48 AM
It's difficult enough to hit consistently in MLB. Without ever getting the opportunity to develop rhythm and see pitches regularly is even harder. To me, Anderson has accomplished much more at the plate this season than Swisher.

You think Anderson is hurting in a limited role, while I think he's benefiting. Getting more ABs won't suddenly make his numbers better, they will likely get worse as the opponent will pitch more to his weaknesses. They're not going to give him the hard stuff until he can prove he can hit the slow stuff.

Anderson is not an everyday player, let's get over that fact.

shes
09-02-2008, 09:50 AM
Brian Anderson's career OBP is .277. This year its .273. He has 36 hits this year, 7 of them home runs. He also has 8 walks in over 150 ABs while striking out almost 40 times. That is the type of hitter that should be starting? People here complain about the "all or nothing" offense, yet they want to start a guy who is hitting .230, does not walk, and strikes out a ton. While JR has not shown the power that he is capable of, he has already walked 10 times. I would take the chance on him getting hot, Swish getting out of this slump well before I would take the chance on Anderson suddenly figuring out how to hit.

This is why I'm not advocating for BA to be an everyday player. However, I still maintain that he's our best option against left-handed pitching, where he provides at worst an average bat and a great glove.

There's absolutely no reason for Jr. to play against lefties, he simply can't hit them anymore.

oeo
09-02-2008, 09:56 AM
This is why I'm not advocating for BA to be an everyday player. However, I still maintain that he's our best option against left-handed pitching, where he provides at worst an average bat and a great glove.

Anderson does not show an average bat against lefties. He shows that he can't hit them worth ****, so just swings for the fences (look at his career numbers against lefties...they suck). That's all he's got against LHP is homeruns.

I like OPS, but this is an example of where not to use it. A player in a limited role, who's doing nothing but hitting homeruns off of them does not translate to the same power success everyday. If Anderson is facing a lefty three times a game, you can watch that OPS plummet.

RockyMtnSoxFan
09-02-2008, 10:06 AM
Anderson does not show an average bat against lefties. He shows that he can't hit them worth ****, so just swings for the fences (look at his career numbers against lefties...they suck). That's all he's got against LHP is homeruns.

I like OPS, but this is an example of where not to use it. A player in a limited role, who's doing nothing but hitting homeruns off of them does not translate to the same power success everyday. If Anderson is facing a lefty three times a game, you can watch that OPS plummet.

Why exactly do you think Anderson shouldn't play against lefties (or at all)? You don't really have a reason. You don't want to look at numbers, where he is better than both Griffey and Swisher against lefties. You don't consider defense or speed. You don't care about who's hot currently (Swisher sucked in August, as did Griffey, while Anderson has the second highest OPS since the ASB). If it's just personal, say so; we all know that there are people who hate Brian Anderson. But to say that he won't succeed in a platoon role, when all of the statistics say he would be better than the other options, doesn't make sense.

TomBradley72
09-02-2008, 10:14 AM
This is why I'm not advocating for BA to be an everyday player. However, I still maintain that he's our best option against left-handed pitching, where he provides at worst an average bat and a great glove.

There's absolutely no reason for Jr. to play against lefties, he simply can't hit them anymore.

I agree with you. In CF...I'd pick defense as my priority, especially with Quentin and Dye in the corner OF positions. We'll give up some OBP in the form of walks drawn by Swisher (Griffey shouldn't even be considered as an option, it's an embarassment that he's in CF for us), but personally I'll take Anderson's defense over Swisher's walks.

kittle42
09-02-2008, 11:00 AM
You know what I said after the horrible game last night on the heels of a semi-disappointing series in Boston? What we really need here is another Brian Anderson should be starting thread!

I hate WSI some days. :redneck

shes
09-02-2008, 12:16 PM
You know what I said after the horrible game last night on the heels of a semi-disappointing series in Boston? What we really need here is another Brian Anderson should be starting thread!

I hate WSI some days. :redneck

Ha...sorry, I didn't know there were so many of these threads around - haven't been following WSI all that much lately. It's nerve-wracking enough just watching the games.

I don't want to make it sound like I think BA is some kind of huge upgrade or long-term solution; it's just that Jr. and Swisher are such pitiful options against lefties at this point that it seem logical to give the guy with the better glove and better relative offensive production this season a few more opportunities.

Nellie_Fox
09-02-2008, 02:15 PM
... Jr. and Swisher are such pitiful options against lefties at this point that it seem logical to give the guy with the better glove and better relative offensive production this season a few more opportunities.I was wondering last night if Swisher has ever considered scrapping the right-handed part of his switch-hitting equation? He's clearly a better hitter left-handed.

LITTLE NELL
09-02-2008, 02:33 PM
You know what I said after the horrible game last night on the heels of a semi-disappointing series in Boston? What we really need here is another Brian Anderson should be starting thread!

I hate WSI some days. :redneck
Aaron Rowand should be starting.

tstrike2000
09-02-2008, 02:36 PM
I was wondering last night if Swisher has ever considered scrapping the right-handed part of his switch-hitting equation? He's clearly a better hitter left-handed.

Since he's batting .200 against lefties, sounds like a good idea.

It's Dankerific
09-02-2008, 05:29 PM
Brian? Hello.....

Daver
09-02-2008, 05:47 PM
The same Brian Anderson that has struggled against left handed pitching back to when he was in HS? That Brian Anderson?

Don't you try and improve a players trade value late in the season instead of drive it down when the player doesn't fit into your future plans?

MisterB
09-02-2008, 06:38 PM
I was wondering last night if Swisher has ever considered scrapping the right-handed part of his switch-hitting equation? He's clearly a better hitter left-handed.

Since he's batting .200 against lefties, sounds like a good idea.

His career splits are .242/.341/.464 lefty and .255/.399/.428 righty. So I'd say this year is an aberration.

UofCSoxFan
09-02-2008, 06:41 PM
I was wondering last night if Swisher has ever considered scrapping the right-handed part of his switch-hitting equation? He's clearly a better hitter left-handed.

I don't think this would work. Chances are he's been switch hitting since a very young age and probably has never seen a left handed curve ball from the left side. Jose Valentin tried doing the one side thing for a brief period and it was a complete disastor.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-02-2008, 06:56 PM
The thing is Griffey is a too big of a name to bench. Even though he shouldn't even be playing baseball anymore with the way he is playing. He only option is a DH, and he isn't be best hitter anymore. The Griffey trade has hurt this team much more than helped. :mad:

Griffey is koo though. :rolleyes:

BadBobbyJenks
09-02-2008, 06:58 PM
All I know is that Jerry Owens playing over Brian Anderson right now is a joke. When is the last time BA started in Center and what the hell did Jerry do to deserve a start?

He cant even make this team without September call ups...

HBaines03
09-02-2008, 08:00 PM
All I know is that Jerry Owens playing over Brian Anderson right now is a joke. When is the last time BA started in Center and what the hell did Jerry do to deserve a start?

He cant even make this team without September call ups...

Amen! I really wonder at times what Guillen is thinking. Does he realize what month we are in and where we sit in the standings? Guillen believes Jerry Owens is the 2nd coming........

chisoxmike
09-02-2008, 08:49 PM
Anyone but Jerry Owens.

Owens mere presence is a detriment to the Sox.

Madscout
09-02-2008, 09:01 PM
Anyone but Jerry Owens.

Owens mere presence is a detriment to the Sox.
Unless he comes in late to run for Thome or KG.

tstrike2000
09-02-2008, 09:19 PM
His career splits are .242/.341/.464 lefty and .255/.399/.428 righty. So I'd say this year is an aberration.

Aberration or not this year is what matters right now and .200 from the right side of the plate isn't getting it done. May as well play Anderson if Ozzie was planning on using Swish in CF against a lefty.

ChiSox65
09-03-2008, 01:57 AM
The fact we are having this conversation points out the fact that we are a collection of players......... not a "team".

I agree BA should start over J Owens and start against lefties ..
the whole Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Jr thing is a joke.......

Lets find some more old bad hitting players who cant field..

I'd rather watch Uribe play everyday.......he can field.

Lukin13
09-03-2008, 03:08 AM
CF defense is not going to decide whether the sox make the postseason or not.

If I knew how to do it I would paste a circa '06 Mackowiak headshot right here:



Anderson should start against lefties the rest of the way. Our starting pitching really needs him to save a few hits down the stretch.

forrestg
09-03-2008, 03:40 AM
Everyone knows what is going one except Ozzie who was it yesterday a left handed hitter flashing has hit .391 against lefties.. Ozzie brings in Thornton after Dotel actually was pitching well getting 2 outs. Griffey doesn't hit lefties well. THome hits actually hits lefties better this year. So what do we get Griffey and Thome both in the game.. Anderson takes away base hits he has great range.. When Griffey plays you see Alexei going way farther than I want see a second baseman out to cover for a not so fleet of foot centerfielder.. When you have Anderson playing center he make the right and left fielder have to do less,takes away hits which don't turn into runs.. YOu can't tell me that Swisher or Griffey especially against lefties any talent that compensates for his fielding and slightly better hitting.. Ozzie needs to start hurting people's feelings and start putting the best team on the field.. As bad as we are hitting it is too scary not to have solid d on the field. Anderson may not be the answer but whenever I watch a ball hit to center and Anderson is the centerfielder I know I have a fewer questions as wherther Griffey or Swisher be able to field the ball. Griffey is a great baseball player but we can't afford to have him play center perhaps a corner outfielder but you can't possibly play Griffey over Dye or Quentin either. We're in our can't hit mode and defense is even more important.

It's Dankerific
09-03-2008, 04:11 AM
Few people probably want Brian starting more than me. But it just aint going to happen. Today, Ozzie put ****ing Jerry Owens in CF rather than BA. It doesn't matter if the pitcher throws LH, RH, or underarm, Ozzie will be saving BA to pinch-run.

Its like a bad 2006 re-run.

TomBradley72
09-03-2008, 07:15 AM
Few people probably want Brian starting more than me. But it just aint going to happen. Today, Ozzie put ****ing Jerry Owens in CF rather than BA. It doesn't matter if the pitcher throws LH, RH, or underarm, Ozzie will be saving BA to pinch-run.

Its like a bad 2006 re-run.

Yep...the Owens bull**** has me throwing in the towel as well.

TomBradley72
09-03-2008, 07:22 AM
The same Brian Anderson that has struggled against left handed pitching back to when he was in HS? That Brian Anderson?

Don't you try and improve a players trade value late in the season instead of drive it down when the player doesn't fit into your future plans?

When you're battling it out for the Division title...I think the only criteria is winning games vs. influencing player values, etc.

I know you're big on BA's college stats as relevent...and I pulled some data from wiffleball.com that he couldn't hit lefties in his buddy's backyard when he was 11 either. But for all of our CF's against LHs...he's the best option when combined with his overall defense.

BA: .226-7-16 (in 32 ABs)
Swisher: .202-5-15 (in 114 ABs)
Griffey: .148-0-1 (in 24 ABs)

2906
09-03-2008, 08:32 AM
When you're battling it out for the Division title...I think the only criteria is winning games vs. influencing player values, etc.

I know you're big on BA's college stats as relevent...and I pulled some data from wiffleball.com that he couldn't hit lefties in his buddy's backyard when he was 11 either. But for all of our CF's against LHs...he's the best option when combined with his overall defense.

BA: .226-7-16 (in 32 ABs)
Swisher: .202-5-15 (in 114 ABs)
Griffey: .148-0-1 (in 24 ABs)

I think Anderson will start today. Griffey has a sore back, Quentin is ouchy, and the jumpstart Ozzie hoped Owens would provide didn't work.

He should get him in there today, with Swisher in LF.

russ99
09-03-2008, 08:38 AM
Yep...the Owens bull**** has me throwing in the towel as well.

I'm a Jerry Owens fan and last night even has me wondering if he can ever contribute as a major league player. At least Ozzie (no doubt trying to mix things up) gave him his chance to make an impact in a pennant race, and Jerry failed miserably.

I'm not in the Anderson camp, but he's certainly a better stopgap than Owens at this point. I just hope Carlos is OK and can come back soon.

2906
09-03-2008, 08:42 AM
I'm a Jerry Owens fan and last night even has me wondering if he can ever contribute as a major league player. At least Ozzie (no doubt trying to mix things up) gave him his chance to make an impact in a pennant race, and Jerry failed miserably.

I'm not in the Anderson camp, but he's certainly a better stopgap than Owens at this point. I just hope Carlos is OK and can come back soon.

Good points russ. He can't seem to hit a good fastball, it got blown by him again last night.

By his comments in the paper, Guillen is looking for a spark. At this point even a defensive spark would be welcome and Brian has been a good soldier this year. Get him in there today and let's see what happens.

It's Dankerific
09-03-2008, 11:51 AM
Good points russ. He can't seem to hit a good fastball, it got blown by him again last night.

By his comments in the paper, Guillen is looking for a spark. At this point even a defensive spark would be welcome and Brian has been a good soldier this year. Get him in there today and let's see what happens.

I guess hell has frozen over today.

Tragg
09-03-2008, 12:28 PM
This is why I'm not advocating for BA to be an everyday player. However, I still maintain that he's our best option against left-handed pitching, where he provides at worst an average bat and a great glove.

There's absolutely no reason for Jr. to play against lefties, he simply can't hit them anymore.
It's just howling at the moon to expect Anderson to play more. He's already behind Jerry Owens in Ozzie's depth chart. Of course that doesn't mean much - Ozzie's keen eye for talent had Jerry owens ahead of Quentin and Ramirez.
Anderson's a better hitter against righties anyway. He's a ballplayer who plays great defense that this field staff has simply been unwilling to give the time to see if his O would develop. Wise - with a career OBP of something like .270, was playing ahead of Anderson.
They discarded Ryan Sweeney after 3 weeks. It's not unusual.

Frater Perdurabo
09-03-2008, 02:34 PM
It's just howling at the moon to expect Anderson to play more. He's already behind Jerry Owens in Ozzie's depth chart. Of course that doesn't mean much - Ozzie's keen eye for talent had Jerry owens ahead of Quentin and Ramirez.
Anderson's a better hitter against righties anyway. He's a ballplayer who plays great defense that this field staff has simply been unwilling to give the time to see if his O would develop. Wise - with a career OBP of something like .270, was playing ahead of Anderson.
They discarded Ryan Sweeney after 3 weeks. It's not unusual.

There is only one explanation. This organization thinks CF is an offense-first position.

Daver
09-03-2008, 03:52 PM
There is only one explanation. This organization thinks CF is an offense-first position.

They think every position aside from pitcher is an offense first position.

RockyMtnSoxFan
09-03-2008, 04:32 PM
They think every position aside from pitcher is an offense first position.

Except for Uribe's position, wherever that happens to be.

TomBradley72
09-03-2008, 08:40 PM
They think every position aside from pitcher is an offense first position.

Well said. I think Jeff Torborg might have been the last White Sox manager to put any real emphasis on defense.

Jimmy Piersall
09-04-2008, 09:47 AM
Except for Uribe's position, wherever that happens to be.

Correct...see Ozzie's quote in today's Trib about how important defense is to him when he talks about Uribe and Fields.Of course if Fields was hitting
for power and average then defense would be secondary.But he's not so defense is now front and center...but this apparently doesn't apply to CF.

2906
09-04-2008, 09:52 AM
Correct...see Ozzie's quote in today's Trib about how important defense is to him when he talks about Uribe and Fields.Of course if Fields was hitting
for power and average then defense would be secondary.But he's not so defense is now front and center...but this apparently doesn't apply to CF.

Lots more ground balls at 3B. Defense is important all over the field but infield defense is more important than outfield.

TomBradley72
09-04-2008, 11:48 AM
Lots more ground balls at 3B. Defense is important all over the field but infield defense is more important than outfield.

A ground ball gets by 3rd...it's a single or double. Misplayed fly balls lead to doubles/triples/big innings. It's a shame Ozzie hasn't learned this lesson...especially in CF when you have two average corner OFs like Quentin and Dye....and your pitching staff needs all the help it can get.

Tragg
09-04-2008, 12:13 PM
There is only one explanation. This organization thinks CF is an offense-first position. That certainly doesn't explain Jerry Owens or Wise - neither of those 2 hit a lick. This field staff must think it is a speed-first position. (Anderson's career OPS, while not good, was better than Oowens' career OPS entering this season).
Swisher's the CF anyway....just play Griffery in left, as needed. Anderson for late inning defense. Owens for benchwarming.

2906
09-04-2008, 12:32 PM
A ground ball gets by 3rd...it's a single or double. Misplayed fly balls lead to doubles/triples/big innings. It's a shame Ozzie hasn't learned this lesson...especially in CF when you have two average corner OFs like Quentin and Dye....and your pitching staff needs all the help it can get.

There are still a lot more ground balls that an infield can screw up than fly balls that elude an OF. A stellar defensive infield helps pitchers a lot more than the same caliber OF. Especially with the White Sox targeting ground ball pitchers.

Failure to turn a double play is another aspect.

I realize this board is jonesing for Anderson to play CF but I fully understand and support Guillen's comments on the topic. It's more important to have at least an adequete defensive 3B. And for whatever reason Fields hasn't improved.

This is not to say I don't value OF defense. It's just that I don't see Guillen's comments about Fields, and 3B, being contrary to his actions. He has always valued infield defense more than OF defense and I agree with him. I would love 9 outstanding defensive players on the field all the time but it just doesn't work that way for any team really.

Tragg
09-04-2008, 12:41 PM
This is not to say I don't value OF defense. It's just that I don't see Guillen's comments about Fields, and 3B, being contrary to his actions. He has always valued infield defense more than OF defense and I agree with him. I would love 9 outstanding defensive players on the field all the time but it just doesn't work that way for any team really. That explains Swisher (a good hitter and adequate CF) over Anderson (bad hitter, excellent CF), but it doesn't explain Owens (bad hitter; adequate CF), Wise (see Owens) or Mack (adequate hitter, bad CF).
Swisher in CF is a reasonable balance, imo.

2906
09-04-2008, 12:47 PM
That explains Swisher (a good hitter and adequate CF), but it doesn't explain Owens (bad hitter; adequate CF), Wise (see Owens) or Mack (adequate hitter, bad CF).
Swisher in CF is a reasonable balance, imo.

Yeah I would agree that Swisher is a reasonable balance. I don't think we'll see Owens much if at all and I think he's gone after this year. My take is Guillen started him in search of a spark at the leadoff spot, and Owens didn't produce.

This is really a bigger picture issue, the Sox haven't drafted/developed an above average (two way) CF in forever.

ajismyhero
09-04-2008, 12:50 PM
The fact we are having this conversation points out the fact that we are a collection of players......... not a "team".

I agree BA should start over J Owens and start against lefties ..
the whole Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Jr thing is a joke.......

Lets find some more old bad hitting players who cant field..

I'd rather watch Uribe play everyday.......he can field.

The good news is, the White Sox have the best beer league softball team in the majors. The bad news is, that doesn't do us much in a penant race. I heart BA, but the kid doesn't have enough confidence or patience at the plate to be a real everyday player.

Tragg
09-04-2008, 02:58 PM
My take is Guillen started him in search of a spark at the leadoff spot, and Owens didn't produce.


Speaking of leadoff, if Alexei could get his walk rate up to a modest 8% or so, he would be a terrific leadoff hitter.

2906
09-04-2008, 03:48 PM
Speaking of leadoff, if Alexei could get his walk rate up to a modest 8% or so, he would be a terrific leadoff hitter.

He might grow into the role as you suggest and yes it might be a nice fit.

My guess is they will aggressively pursue a more proven leadoff option (Figgins?) this winter. Which of course doesn't mean they'll get said person. Just about every team would love a proven leadoff hitter and it seems they're scarcer than hens teeth. It needs to be a continuing high priority in the draft.