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Fenway
08-31-2008, 02:23 AM
MLB always had serious reservations about Tampa Bay supporting baseball and the attendance this week at The Trop is frankly alarming. Coming home from a great road trip and being firmly in first the Rays had their smallest crowds of the season and ownership is not happy. They are even selling 2009 season tickets with a guarentee of 2008 playoff seats and nobody is buying.

TV ratings are excellent but fans are still not showing up. The proposed waterfront stadium is dead in the water.

The core problem is the location of The Trop which is located near the crack houses of South St Pete. In ten years the city has failed to develop anything else near the stadium. The second problem is the population near the park is either very poor or on fixed income. The Trop has NO public transportation options and the price of gas is keeping fans from the Tampa side away.

The rumblings have started about the only market MLB thinks is a slam dunk - New Jersey. Even Montreal is sniffing around as are Portland, Charlotte and Vegas. Charlotte maybe the best option because of the banking industry.

Right now Tampa ranks 26th in 2008 attendance but that is only because of big crowds with Boston, Yankees and Cubs. Ownership knows they can't draw 40,000 a game but right now they would be happy with 20K. Buying out the lease is now being whispered.

If this team can not draw then that market maybe hopeless.

cards press box
08-31-2008, 03:53 AM
Wow, if MLB relocated the Rays to New Jersey and built a new stadium in Jersey City on the waterfront and facing Manhattan, that could be a dynamic choice. The Jersey Rays would have a natural inter-city rivalry with the Yankees that would generate a lot of interest. New York City had three teams until the late '50's and the metropolitan New York area could no doubt support three teams now.

One other observation: if the Rays don't get their park built in Florida and do relocate, can the Marlins' relocation out of South Florida be far behind?

pagansoxfan
08-31-2008, 04:03 AM
Orlando would've been a much better market than st. Pete. how ironic st. pete tried stealing so many teams, yet cannot support its own.

Whitesoxfan23
08-31-2008, 04:42 AM
Fenway, where did you get this information?

chaerulez
08-31-2008, 05:07 AM
I never thought the St. Petersburg area could support a baseball team simply because it doesn't have the population. Yes, they have a NFL team in the area but it's a little different:

1. The Bucs actually play in Tampa, which does make a difference.

2. It's easier to fill 60,000 fans for 8 games a season than 35,000+ for 82 games.

3. And it's the NFL, which is king in America.

If the Sox ended up going there, the franchise would've died.

LITTLE NELL
08-31-2008, 09:03 AM
Tampa-St Pete is 19th in U. S.metropoltan population which puts it ahead of Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, Milwaukee, Cleveland and KC.
The big problem in Tampa-St Pete is that most of the population are not natives and could care less what the Rays are doing. We live 120 miles south of Tampa and only go up when the Sox are in town. I do follow the Rays and if I lived say a half hour away I would attend quite a few more games. I hope things work out and they dont move. NY does not need 3 teams.

FedEx227
08-31-2008, 10:00 AM
I truly think a waterfront arena closer to downtown Tampa or next to the Lightning arena will help out a ton. To anyone that's even been to the Trop you know first off it's well out of the way, also the area around the stadium is a ****hole and the place itself is a **** hole.

Fenway
08-31-2008, 10:11 AM
Fenway, where did you get this information?

Combination of reading the St Pete Times, my father in law lives in Largo 15 miles from The Trop and knowing one of the beat writers.

The crowds for the Anaheim series were awful and then it got worse for Toronto.

Tampa is a tough market to crack. Remember the Bucs had problems drawing for years and only sold out when the Bears and Packers played there. The Lightning have fared better but winning the Stanley Cup helped. However they learned early that to survive in Tampa Bay they needed to be across the bay.

Tampa Bay is not awash in cash. The Pinellas County side (St Pete-Clearwater) is home to many retired folks on fixed income who find it expensive to go to a Florida State League game.

The Tampa side isn't doing so great either. Banking mergers the past 15 years have devestated Tampa and many companies have relocated 80 miles east to Orlando simplay because the airport there has more direct flights than Tampa offers.

MLB passed over Tampa for expansion in 1991 because of concerns with the market and only gave them a franchise in 1995 because they needed a second team along with Phoenix.

Bottom line is in a pennant race if they can't draw 20,000 a game the market is flawed.

DumpJerry
08-31-2008, 10:32 AM
Pretty pitiful situation down there. I don't think the "get 2008 playoff tickets" incentive will work because it sounds like playoff tickets will be plentiful like there were in Atlanta during their run in the 90's and early 2000's.

Why buy season tickets when you're pretty much assured of getting tickets to any regular season game you desire? It's like the Royals, except something tells me they don't have the profitability of the Royals (one of, if not THE, best investment in MLB).

chaerulez
08-31-2008, 11:13 AM
Tampa-St Pete is 19th in U. S.metropoltan population which puts it ahead of Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, Milwaukee, Cleveland and KC.
The big problem in Tampa-St Pete is that most of the population are not natives and could care less what the Rays are doing. We live 120 miles south of Tampa and only go up when the Sox are in town. I do follow the Rays and if I lived say a half hour away I would attend quite a few more games. I hope things work out and they dont move. NY does not need 3 teams.

Maybe New York doesn't need three teams, but that metropolitan area could easily support three teams. A team in Jersey would draw.

Fenway
08-31-2008, 11:23 AM
The Rays did draw 34,000 on Saturday but they have had a concert promotion for every Sat home game this season.

Their flagship radio station has a so-so signal at night and non cable TV games have been on the ION station there ( the former PAX network) so promotion is limited.

They need to move radio to FM which covers the market better as there are no fulltime 50,000 watt AM stations there.

The stadium location is the key problem and there is no gettng around the fact that the lack of development in the past 10 years around The Trop shows that nobody has any faith in the area.

Montreal also had stadium location issues as do the Marlins today.

Fenway
08-31-2008, 11:55 AM
Maybe New York doesn't need three teams, but that metropolitan area could easily support three teams. A team in Jersey would draw.

The late Doug Pappas looked at the markets just before his untimely death and New Jersey by far was the best option. He also wrote that the Hartford-New Haven-Springfield corridor could easily support a team.

Montreal also has to be given another look. An AL East team in Quebec would have the natural rivals in Boston, Toronto and the Yankees that the Expos never had. Upstate NY is Yankees country as very few Mets fans exist north of the Tappan Zee Bridge and of course nothern Vermont and NH is all Red Sox.

Also the ecomomic issues that hurt the Expos no longer exist as the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the US greenback. The Expos 10 years ago suffered when $100 US dollars were worth $155 Canadian. Loria had no intention of staying in Montreal and the heartbroken fans just stopped coming especially after Pedro was traded.

soxpride724
08-31-2008, 12:05 PM
Thats' a shame, I've always imagined one of my possible destinations in the next few years would be the Tampa area.

It's a nice stadium but a poor market for baseball.

FedEx227
08-31-2008, 12:09 PM
It is NOT a nice stadium. I've been to my fair share of crappy pro sports venues but the Trop takes the cake. No big-time atmosphere whatsoever, even if you filled the place.

guillen4life13
08-31-2008, 12:27 PM
Wow, if MLB relocated the Rays to New Jersey and built a new stadium in Jersey City on the waterfront and facing Manhattan, that could be a dynamic choice. The Jersey Rays would have a natural inter-city rivalry with the Yankees that would generate a lot of interest. New York City had three teams until the late '50's and the metropolitan New York area could no doubt support three teams now.

One other observation: if the Rays don't get their park built in Florida and do relocate, can the Marlins' relocation out of South Florida be far behind?

Sadly, it would not surprise me. I've only been down here for a little over two years, but the fact that they've won two World Series in the past 11 years and they still have huge attendance problems is noteworthy. Maybe getting the new stadium in a more central location will help, but in Miami public transportation is not very helpful unless you're downtown.

I really hope the Marlins can start drawing bigger crowds. They don't belong at Dolphin Stadium (and neither do the Canes!!).

LITTLE NELL
08-31-2008, 12:39 PM
It is NOT a nice stadium. I've been to my fair share of crappy pro sports venues but the Trop takes the cake. No big-time atmosphere whatsoever, even if you filled the place.
We were at the May 31st game(Sox lost 2-0) and it was a sellout and actually the atmosphere was very good that night, the fans were really into the game and quite vocal. We actually had to pay scalper prices.
I dont feel that the Trop is that bad of a ballpark. 15 or 20 million dollars could maybe make the Trop a little more attractive. Its very easy to get to and you can walk to it from downtown St Pete which I think is great little area. the 1st thing they need to do is reposition the out field lights and catwalk so they dont come into play. Like the Cell, green seats would look better. Its very hard to see pop ups and flyballs against the white dome. The food selection is very good, they had a great cigar bar in CF which they should not have gotten rid of. They have a good souvenir shop in the CF rotunda and lots of actvities for the kids.

WhiteSox5187
08-31-2008, 12:48 PM
The late Doug Pappas looked at the markets just before his untimely death and New Jersey by far was the best option. He also wrote that the Hartford-New Haven-Springfield corridor could easily support a team.

Montreal also has to be given another look. An AL East team in Quebec would have the natural rivals in Boston, Toronto and the Yankees that the Expos never had. Upstate NY is Yankees country as very few Mets fans exist north of the Tappan Zee Bridge and of course nothern Vermont and NH is all Red Sox.

Also the ecomomic issues that hurt the Expos no longer exist as the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the US greenback. The Expos 10 years ago suffered when $100 US dollars were worth $155 Canadian. Loria had no intention of staying in Montreal and the heartbroken fans just stopped coming especially after Pedro was traded.
I thought the Expos troubles really started when Loria bought the team but before then they were actually somewhat profitable...MLB has over expanded itself and is now paying the price for it.

Optipessimism
08-31-2008, 01:15 PM
Las Vegas would make a nice destination for the Rays if you moved them to the AL West. Besides, wouldn't a 4-team AL East lead to more games between the Yankees and Red Sox? Wouldn't MLB just love that?

Either that or move the Rays to Vegas and the AL West, move the Marlins to Portland and the NL West, send Pittsburgh to the AL East where they could get some bigger crowds and create a rivalry padding the stats of the other AL East teams, and then send the Rockies to the AL West, just because they play in an AL-type park and would probably benefit from it. That way you have 16 AL teams and 14 NL teams instead of the other way around.

AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL, PIT
AL Central: CHW, MIN, CLE, DET, KC
AL West: LV Rays, LAA, TEX, SEA, OAK, COL

NL East: PHI, NYM, WSH, ATL
NL Central: CHC, MIL, STL, HOU, CIN
NL West: Portland Marlins, LAD, AZ, SD, SF

Daver
08-31-2008, 01:29 PM
Las Vegas would make a nice destination for the Rays if you moved them to the AL West. Besides, wouldn't a 4-team AL East lead to more games between the Yankees and Red Sox? Wouldn't MLB just love that?

Either that or move the Rays to Vegas and the AL West, move the Marlins to Portland and the NL West, send Pittsburgh to the AL East where they could get some bigger crowds and create a rivalry padding the stats of the other AL East teams, and then send the Rockies to the AL West, just because they play in an AL-type park and would probably benefit from it. That way you have 16 AL teams and 14 NL teams instead of the other way around.

AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL, PIT
AL Central: CHW, MIN, CLE, DET, KC
AL West: LV Rays, LAA, TEX, SEA, OAK, COL

NL East: PHI, NYM, WSH, ATL
NL Central: CHC, MIL, STL, HOU, CIN
NL West: Portland Marlins, LAD, AZ, SD, SF

MLB won't put a team in Las Vegas, they want no part of any possibility of a gambling scandal. Putting a team in Jersey makes a lot of sense for a couple reasons, it has the ability to support a team attendance wise, and it would force the Yankees to rethink their approach to fielding a team, you can't waste money on payroll when you have a competitor for your product.

thomas35forever
08-31-2008, 01:47 PM
Wow, just wow. And the Sox almost moved there while I was forming in my mother's womb? If the Rays make the World Series, they better sell out every game and the crowd better be composed mostly of Tampa Bay fans. If neither happens, I would seriously consider relocation if I were the owners. It just goes to show that people in Florida care about football and nothing else, especially if it's college football. What a tragedy.

VA_GoGoSox
08-31-2008, 04:51 PM
The attendance this past week has been mind-blowing. I've been down here a few years and I always figured that once the Rays started winning, the attendance would improve dramatically (like the buccaneers). From what I've been told, the Bucs didn't draw worth a darn until they got good under Dungy. I'm also witnessing the same thing first hand with the USF football program which is seeing increased ticket sales this year.

But for some reason this isn't happening for the Rays. The games this past week looked like a ghost town. There's definitely increased interest in the team, but maybe there really just aren't enough baseball fans to support a franchise here.

Oh well, I don't mind buying a nine dollar ticket, sitting wherever I want and watching a really good baseball team.

Average Homeboy
08-31-2008, 04:59 PM
They drew over 32,000 today.

Bump34
08-31-2008, 05:11 PM
I feel like I am on the White Sox post game show in 2000...

There are a lot of similarities to what is going on here in '08 and what went on in 2000 with the White Sox... Both teams were coming off poor seasons on the field and in the seats... 1.3 million is season attendance each of the last two seasons... Nobody saw the success coming so season ticket sales were low... in the case of the Rays many people put it around 6,000...

And if you look at the White Sox crowds in late August and September of that season the weekday crowds were between 13,000 and 19,000 and the White Sox had the more comfortable lead in the standings and a much larger market... the biggest crowds were weekends and 1/2 price nights...

The Rays had 34,000 on Saturday... and 32,379 on Sunday... and with the Yankees and Red Sox still to come this will be the Rays 2nd best season attendance mark... People around Tampa Bay are into it... TV ratings are at an all time high... Radio ratings are way up (and we might be moving to a new more powerful station next season)....and corporate sales are up too!

The big test will come during the offseason... season tickets and group sales will increase and this drives your attendance...

As always thanks for your interest in Rays Baseball... and see you in October!!!!:gulp::gulp::gulp:

DSpivack
08-31-2008, 05:21 PM
I feel like I am on the White Sox post game show in 2000...

There are a lot of similarities to what is going on here in '08 and what went on in 2000 with the White Sox... Both teams were coming off poor seasons on the field and in the seats... 1.3 million is season attendance each of the last two seasons... Nobody saw the success coming so season ticket sales were low... in the case of the Rays many people put it around 6,000...

And if you look at the White Sox crowds in late August and September of that season the weekday crowds were between 13,000 and 19,000 and the White Sox had the more comfortable lead in the standings and a much larger market... the biggest crowds were weekends and 1/2 price nights...

The Rays had 34,000 on Saturday... and 32,379 on Sunday... and with the Yankees and Red Sox still to come this will be the Rays 2nd best season attendance mark... People around Tampa Bay are into it... TV ratings are at an all time high... Radio ratings are way up (and we might be moving to a new more powerful station next season)....and corporate sales are up too!

The big test will come during the offseason... season tickets and group sales will increase and this drives your attendance...

As always thanks for your interest in Rays Baseball... and see you in October!!!!:gulp::gulp::gulp:

I think the similarities pretty much end there. The Rays have never drawn well since their incarnation in 1998, and this is their first winning season. The Sox were coming off a downturn of five or so years in 2000, but are one of the oldest franchises in one of the most solid baseball markets in the country. There are still serious doubts whether or not St. Pete can be a viable market for a baseball franchise in the long-term.

whitesox901
08-31-2008, 05:23 PM
Jersey Rays lol

PKalltheway
08-31-2008, 09:46 PM
Eduardo Perez on BBTN last night compared the Rays' attendance woes to that of the Mariners when they first became a team. The M's became a team in 1977, didn't record their first winning season until 1991, and didn't crack the top half in attendance in the AL until 1996 (the year after they made their first postseason appearance). They have yet to fall below 7th in the AL since then.

Even though it's really pathetic that the Rays still aren't drawing despite having the best record in the AL to this point, we'll really find out next year whether or not this will continue. Could they be just like the M's? We shall see...

DSpivack
08-31-2008, 10:19 PM
Eduardo Perez on BBTN last night compared the Rays' attendance woes to that of the Mariners when they first became a team. The M's became a team in 1977, didn't record their first winning season until 1991, and didn't crack the top half in attendance in the AL until 1996 (the year after they made their first postseason appearance). They have yet to fall below 7th in the AL since then.

Even though it's really pathetic that the Rays still aren't drawing despite having the best record in the AL to this point, we'll really find out next year whether or not this will continue. Could they be just like the M's? We shall see...

Again, I would bring up the point a few others have raised: Does St. Pete have the capability to be a viable baseball market? I'm guessing there were never serious issues with Seattle being capable of supporting a major league team. Tampa would be the closest option; there are a handful of others, as have been said.

Viva Medias B's
08-31-2008, 10:23 PM
Don't the Rays have an attendance problem (so far) because Tampa is populated by a lot of Yankee fans who would not necessarily be interested in supporting the Rays?
I think the Rays would be more successful in Orlando than Tampa/St. Pete.

Hitmen77
09-01-2008, 12:48 AM
The rumblings have started about the only market MLB thinks is a slam dunk - New Jersey. Even Montreal is sniffing around as are Portland, Charlotte and Vegas. Charlotte maybe the best option because of the banking industry.


Don't the Yankees and Mets own exclusive market rights to northern New Jersey? If so, how would MLB ever manage to get those two teams to waive their rights to NJ so that a team could locate there?

It's Dankerific
09-01-2008, 06:54 AM
Just move them to Portland already!!! =)


ps. has nothing to do with me relocating there on saturday...

nedlug
09-01-2008, 08:40 AM
Don't the Yankees and Mets own exclusive market rights to northern New Jersey? If so, how would MLB ever manage to get those two teams to waive their rights to NJ so that a team could locate there?

They did it with Baltimore... but I guess that DC was in another league.

soxfanatlanta
09-01-2008, 08:46 AM
MLB never should have tried to go into Florida. Bottom line is that overall, they don't care about baseball down there.

ma-gaga
09-01-2008, 11:37 AM
Back in "contraction" days, 2002, there were rumblings that Tampa would be one of the teams considered, but their politicians stepped in immediately and said they had an iron clad 25 year lease and guaranteed that Tampa would not be touched. Here is Pappas' take (http://www.roadsidephotos.com/baseball/bb01-3.htm) where he specifically mentions that Tampa was burned twice by the White Sox and the Giants agreeing to relocate there but then backing out. They still must have something like 19 to 20 years on their lease.

Tampa isn't going to be touched. Despite their problems.


The title of this thread isn't really accurate or fair. Montreal got sandbagged by a horrible owner who did everything to destroy his team. And he's going to do the same thing to his Florida Marlins team. The only thing saving that team right now is the competency of their front office.

Fenway
09-01-2008, 02:06 PM
I hope the fans in Tampa Bay respond to this team.

Another problem was the team was first owned by a madman who angered everyone. The new ownership had many bridges to mend.

Weekend attendance is showing fans willing to drve in on day off but now the trick is getting fans to go after work.

As far as New Jersey goes the Yankees can block it but the Mets can not because of the county line system MLB uses. However the Yankees would most likely do something similar to what Baltimore did in owning the Nats TV rights.

UofCSoxFan
09-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Jersey Rays lol

Sounds like a pizza place.

Jersey Ray's original thin crust.

Red Barchetta
09-01-2008, 05:40 PM
I hope the fans in Tampa Bay respond to this team.

Another problem was the team was first owned by a madman who angered everyone. The new ownership had many bridges to mend.

Weekend attendance is showing fans willing to drve in on day off but now the trick is getting fans to go after work.

As far as New Jersey goes the Yankees can block it but the Mets can not because of the county line system MLB uses. However the Yankees would most likely do something similar to what Baltimore did in owning the Nats TV rights.

I moved from Chicago to the Sarasota area in 2005. (I know - horrible timing from a White Sox Fan perspective). :cool:

I attend the Sox series every year (two this season) and I usually attend a few other games each season. The Trop is not a great place to see a MLB game. To put it in a Chicago perspective - it's like living in Chicago and being a White Sox fan, however having to drive to Joliet to see a game (inside). ?!

I really like the current ownership team of the Rays. They have tried everything then can think of to put butts in the seats of the Trop. However, it's now to the point of putting good money into a bad investment.

I really liked the downtown waterfront ballpark idea, however the local voters never rallied around the idea. It was basically being sold without the need of taxpayers dollars, just their approval to build on the bayfront and it still didn't sell.

If they are serious about a Tampa-area team, they need to build an open air/retractable roof ballpark similar to Arizona, Houston and Milwaukee. I think the best location would be near the Florida Fairgrounds off of I4. That would allow them to attract fans from Tampa, St. Pete, Sarasota, Brandon, Lakeland, Clearwater and perhaps even Orlando. The current St. Pete location is not working (obviously).

They will lose the franchise if they don't make a change soon. The owners can now claim a winning team (World Series?), a failed new (free) ballpark proposal and fan apathy to move.....

nccwsfan
09-02-2008, 07:45 AM
The Rays aren't leaving the area- if they somehow leave St. Pete in 10 years (the soonest they can under the current lease) it would be across the bay to Tampa. I lived down there for 10 years and heard this crap in 99', 00', 01', 02', etc....nothing has changed except the team is finally winning. MLB is a lot smarter than us and won't make knee-jerk reactions to something like this. When actual crunch time comes around (6 years or so) it will be build in St. Pete or move to Tampa/Orlando.

Besides, I would think a team that's won 2 World Series trophies in the last 11 seasons and has the worst attendance in baseball would be a bigger problem.

Foulke You
09-02-2008, 12:34 PM
I feel like I am on the White Sox post game show in 2000...

There are a lot of similarities to what is going on here in '08 and what went on in 2000 with the White Sox... Both teams were coming off poor seasons on the field and in the seats... 1.3 million is season attendance each of the last two seasons... Nobody saw the success coming so season ticket sales were low... in the case of the Rays many people put it around 6,000...

And if you look at the White Sox crowds in late August and September of that season the weekday crowds were between 13,000 and 19,000 and the White Sox had the more comfortable lead in the standings and a much larger market... the biggest crowds were weekends and 1/2 price nights...

The Rays had 34,000 on Saturday... and 32,379 on Sunday... and with the Yankees and Red Sox still to come this will be the Rays 2nd best season attendance mark... People around Tampa Bay are into it... TV ratings are at an all time high... Radio ratings are way up (and we might be moving to a new more powerful station next season)....and corporate sales are up too!

The big test will come during the offseason... season tickets and group sales will increase and this drives your attendance...

As always thanks for your interest in Rays Baseball... and see you in October!!!!:gulp::gulp::gulp:
I was going to post something similar to this "Bump". The Rays attendance woes and the media people railing against Tampa fans remind me a lot of the 2000 White Sox. "How can they have the best record in baseball and only average 25,000 fans per game?" was certainly heard nationally and locally many times during the 2000 season here in Chicago and was a hot topic. The problem with the Rays is similar to the White Sox back then. Your attendance needs to have a solid season ticket base to get good numbers. The White Sox had low season ticket sales in 2000 because the team was rebuilding, the ballpark needed renovating, and there were still a lot of post '94 strike/'97 white flag trade anti-Reinsdorf sentiment amongst the fans. The Rays season ticket base is small because they have been a horrible team since their inception and their ballpark is blah. Currently, the Rays ticket sales are based on walk-up sales much like the Sox of 2000. When the weather was good, when it was a weekend game, when the Yankees were in town, etc. the Sox drew big crowds. However, if it was a rainy September weeknight aganst the Royals, we drew only 20,000. The Rays are in a similar pattern right now.

People say that the Rays can't draw down in St. Pete but one successful season on the field with low attendance doesn't prove or disprove this theory. I will say that the Rays have more challenges ahead than the White Sox did in 2000. The White Sox of 2000 still had generations of existing passionate fans that just needed to mend fences with the current ownership and return to the team they once supported. The Rays are building from the ground up with a lot of transplant fans in Florida and also have a bad indoor ballpark to deal with so their road to success is much more difficult than the White Sox of 2000. The true test for the Rays organization will come for the 2009 and 2010 seasons. They will need to increase the season ticket base in order to succeed. If they still struggle for gate and TV ratings with continued success on the field, there might be an issue with the market down there after all. Until then though, it is all speculation.

Good to hear from you Bump! Good luck the rest of the way and I hope we indeed face each other in October!:cool:

LoveYourSuit
09-02-2008, 07:02 PM
The easy answer by everyone is "you can't have indoor baseball" to draw.

Wrong. Have any of you guys been in Florida July and August? Rainstorms each day, Tropical storms, and 92 degrees of heat plus 800% humidity. There is no way you can play open air baseball out there and draw. Unless you go the Rangers route and play 81 night games, fans will not sit out in that heat for 3 hours. They will take the option to sit at the beach instead.

And a retractable roof is not the answer either, when 99% of the games you will end up playing under a closed roof because of the heat.

Location, location, location is the biggest problem for the Rays in addition to it being a young franchise with no loyal following and instead everyone living there being transplants from bigger markets.

Parrothead
09-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Tampa needs this guy and perhaps they would draw....

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:PzrCpeMq8ooJ::homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/youppi-192.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/youppi-192.jpg&imgrefurl=http://homerderby.com/archives/category/expos&h=192&w=192&sz=31&tbnid=PzrCpeMq8ooJ::&tbnh=103&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3DYouppi%2Bpic&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&cd=1)

DSpivack
09-02-2008, 08:46 PM
Tampa needs this guy and perhaps they would draw....

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:PzrCpeMq8ooJ::homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/youppi-192.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/youppi-192.jpg&imgrefurl=http://homerderby.com/archives/category/expos&h=192&w=192&sz=31&tbnid=PzrCpeMq8ooJ::&tbnh=103&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3DYouppi%2Bpic&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&cd=1)

They'd have to steal him from the Canadiens.

Parrothead
09-02-2008, 10:36 PM
They'd have to steal him from the Canadiens.

Thought the Canadiens only had him for 1 game. Is there permanently?

DSpivack
09-02-2008, 10:40 PM
Thought the Canadiens only had him for 1 game. Is there permanently?

I am pretty sure he is their permanent mascot now.

Red Barchetta
09-03-2008, 07:44 AM
The easy answer by everyone is "you can't have indoor baseball" to draw.

Wrong. Have any of you guys been in Florida July and August? Rainstorms each day, Tropical storms, and 92 degrees of heat plus 800% humidity. There is no way you can play open air baseball out there and draw. Unless you go the Rangers route and play 81 night games, fans will not sit out in that heat for 3 hours. They will take the option to sit at the beach instead.

And a retractable roof is not the answer either, when 99% of the games you will end up playing under a closed roof because of the heat.

Location, location, location is the biggest problem for the Rays in addition to it being a young franchise with no loyal following and instead everyone living there being transplants from bigger markets.

I believe the Marlins new (approved) ballpark is a retractable roof design so this theory will be put to the test.

I live near Tampa and I agree it's pretty hot/humid during the summer with rainstorms that roll through almost every afternoon. Similar to Texas and Houston, I believe most games will be scheduled at night. The day/travel day games will probably be played under a closed roof. However, earlier season games; April, May June and maybe later October series would enjoy beautiful weather.

Fenway
09-08-2008, 04:19 PM
A writer at Fox Sports says move the Rays



to Philadelphia


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8532512/Tampa-doesn't-deserve-the-East-leading-Rays

nccwsfan
09-08-2008, 05:02 PM
A writer at Fox Sports says move the Rays



to Philadelphia


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8532512/Tampa-doesn't-deserve-the-East-leading-Rays

:rolleyes: They're not moving anytime soon and if for some reason they do move it will be to Tampa or Orlando. St. Petersburg has an ironclad stadium lease and have repeatedly been on record saying they will agressively block any move outside of their city prior to the end of the lease, which is in 2027.

Sorry, but this is just not going to happen anytime in the near future.

BleacherBandit
09-08-2008, 05:10 PM
Before 2005, I would have suggested moving to New Orleans.

That seemed like the last large(er) city market that didn't have a pro-baseball team.

Fenway
09-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Before 2005, I would have suggested moving to New Orleans.

That seemed like the last large(er) city market that didn't have a pro-baseball team.

If and when another team moves it will be very likely somewhere in the Northeast. New Jersey or Connecticut could easily support a team.

khan
09-08-2008, 05:36 PM
Atlanta Braves' playoff attendance.
Florida Marlins' attendance.

And now, Tampa Bay Rays' attendance.


Basically, any team located south of Kankakee [except st. louis] will struggle to draw flies. In the South, its:

NASCAR, then College football, and that's about it.


IMO, both Florida teams should move. They will NEVER draw in either city, even if they go out and win many more WS championships.

DSpivack
09-08-2008, 05:48 PM
Atlanta Braves' playoff attendance.
Florida Marlins' attendance.

And now, Tampa Bay Rays' attendance.


Basically, any team located south of Kankakee [except st. louis] will struggle to draw flies. In the South, its:

NASCAR, then College football, and that's about it.


IMO, both Florida teams should move. They will NEVER draw in either city, even if they go out and win many more WS championships.

The Braves attendances is fine. Apathetic fans, sure, but financially they're on par with other big clubs [perhaps not the Red Sox or Yankees, but other '2nd tier' teams].

The Marlins retractable roof stadium seems well on it's way to reality on the Orange Bowl site.

As for the Rays, sure their lease may be tight, but they don't seem to be able to operate to far into the long term in St. Petersburg. I don't think it makes a lot of sense of to stay there. Tampa or Orlando beckon.

Red Barchetta
09-08-2008, 08:16 PM
The Braves attendances is fine. Apathetic fans, sure, but financially they're on par with other big clubs [perhaps not the Red Sox or Yankees, but other '2nd tier' teams].

The Marlins retractable roof stadium seems well on it's way to reality on the Orange Bowl site.

As for the Rays, sure their lease may be tight, but they don't seem to be able to operate to far into the long term in St. Petersburg. I don't think it makes a lot of sense of to stay there. Tampa or Orlando beckon.

If it's right for MLB, the league will get them out of the St. Pete lease. It might not be to Tampa, however the fact that the Rays owners proposed a new ballpark without any tax payer or community dollars and it was pulled off the ballot will only help them strengthen their case in the future.

Hitmen77
09-08-2008, 08:59 PM
A writer at Fox Sports says move the Rays



to Philadelphia


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8532512/Tampa-doesn't-deserve-the-East-leading-Rays (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8532512/Tampa-doesn%27t-deserve-the-East-leading-Rays)

:thud:
:hawk
"Where will they play?"

How in the world would they ever move to Philly? Are they going to become joint tenants with the Phillies at Citizens Bank Park and have that park host 162 games per season? If not, would Philly taxpayers pay for yet another new stadium?

Shoot, the A's are looking a new park - maybe they should move back to Philadelphia.

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2008, 09:05 PM
If they plan to move, I suggest New Jersey, with a waterfront stadium with views of the Manhattan skyline, as cards press box suggested on the first page of this thread.

BleacherBandit
09-08-2008, 09:10 PM
If they plan to move, I suggest New Jersey, with a waterfront stadium with views of the Manhattan skyline, as cards press box suggested on the first page of this thread.
The Jersey Rays doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe they should be called 'The New Jersey Track Suit Wearers'.

That would make sense for the reigion...

khan
09-09-2008, 10:54 AM
The Braves attendances is fine. Apathetic fans, sure, but financially they're on par with other big clubs [perhaps not the Red Sox or Yankees, but other '2nd tier' teams].

Sure. But having TBS helps financially. And having a shiny new stadium helps financially. But given how rampantly successful they had been for the previous ~15 years or so, Atlanta can't draw flies.

For that matter, neither can the Hawks, the Falcons, nor the Thrashers.... But your garden variety SEC football/basketball game in georgia? Sold out, more often than not. Your garden variety NASCAR race? Sold out as well.


The Marlins retractable roof stadium seems well on it's way to reality on the Orange Bowl site.

Good for them. I'm glad that the Florida legislature can find the dollars for what will be the 3rd-smallest venue in MLB. Now maybe those freeloaders in Florida can put together a state income tax for hurricane/disaster recovery, instead of stealing OUR federal tax dollars every time a storm hits...

...But seriously, they'll struggle to draw flies. This, despite having a successful franchise and some exciting young players. That they've decided to build such a tiny venue speaks volumes about their ability to draw.

As for the Rays, sure their lease may be tight, but they don't seem to be able to operate to far into the long term in St. Petersburg. I don't think it makes a lot of sense of to stay there. Tampa or Orlando beckon.

Wherever they play, if its in Florida, they won't draw, in all probability.