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View Full Version : Gavin Floyd Is Quietly Having A Pretty Good Year.


Thome25
08-27-2008, 10:42 AM
I remember at the time the White Sox traded Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd and prospect Gio Gonzalez (who the White Sox had already traded for Jim Thome and got him back in this deal.) I was pissed. I was livid. I said to myself "That's all we could get was Gavin freaking Floyd?......we should've at least got Rowand back too.......what a lopsided trade that was."

Well it turned out that it really was lopsided.....in favor of the White Sox. Garcia won one game in his Phillies career and Floyd has won 14 this year for a playoff contending White Sox club.

Gio Gonzalez was later used to get Nick Swisher who has been a big part of our club this year.

I was listening to the Orioles post game show on the radio last night and they sounded very impressed with Gavin. They also went on to say that the Phillies made a mistake letting him go. Apparently, they also said that the Phillies tried to mess with his mechanics after they drafted him and the White Sox let him go back to "doing what got him here in the first place."

I can even remember telling my good friend at work that is a big Phillies fan that the Phillies robbed us and took us to the cleaners in the deal. Boy was I wrong!! Consider this thread as me eating crow!!

KW is an under-the-radar, roundhouse kicking, Chuck Norris-ninja.

What do you think thus far? What did you think of the trade back then?

doublem23
08-27-2008, 10:44 AM
What do you think thus far? What did you think of the trade back then?

Anyone who remembers Freddy's '06 season knew he was running on fumes. I'll admit I wasn't that impressed with Floyd when he first arrived, but I was still glad KW was able to move Garcia.

jabrch
08-27-2008, 10:48 AM
There are 29 other MLB teams that would love to have Gavin Floyd.

cws05champ
08-27-2008, 10:51 AM
There are 29 other MLB teams that would love to have Gavin Floyd.
:rolling:
Not a player like Gavin Floyd...but The Gavin Floyd.

PolishPower83
08-27-2008, 10:52 AM
I love Gavin Floyd. I was, like a lot of others, concerned about his confidence coming into the season...he used to look like he was about to piss himself every time he toed the rubber. Now he looks poised and ready to contribute.

And man did he ever knee-buckle some of the Orioles hitters last night! Nasty!

Thome25
08-27-2008, 10:53 AM
There are 29 other MLB teams that would love to have Gavin Floyd.


I was one of the many people who thought KW was nuts for making that comment. But, it looks like Gavin Floyd put the money where KW's mouth is. KW knows much more than people give him credit for.....and a trade like this proves that.

doublem23
08-27-2008, 10:54 AM
I was one of the many people who thought KW was nuts for making that comment. But, it looks like Gavin Floyd put the money where KW's mouth is. KW knows much more than people give him credit for.....and a trade like this proves that.

This thread is now sufficiently wired to explode.

CashMan
08-27-2008, 10:56 AM
I think the reason he is quietly having a good year, is that he doesn't play for the Yanks or Red Sawks.

Jurr
08-27-2008, 11:04 AM
The kid has always had a boatload of talent, and an extremely plus curve. Much like Contreras, the problem was trusting the fastball to set up the offspeed stuff. When Jose became confident in his fastball, a banner went up at USCF.

Hopefully Gavin's confidence continues, and another banner can go up. :bandance:

voodoochile
08-27-2008, 11:26 AM
:threadsucks:

Pretty good? Gavin Floyd is having a ****ing fantastic year... :tongue:

remember ventura
08-27-2008, 11:30 AM
I was one of the many people who thought KW was nuts for making that comment. But, it looks like Gavin Floyd put the money where KW's mouth is. KW knows much more than people give him credit for.....and a trade like this proves that.

:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

voodoochile
08-27-2008, 11:35 AM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

What's your point? Are you saying KW is doing a crappy job because his draft record is less than stellar?

He does pretty well making trades and signing FA's to make up for it then, wouldn't you say?

doublem23
08-27-2008, 11:38 AM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

I believe he's making up for that by acquiring these 1st round picks:

Gavin Floyd, John Danks, Carlos Quentin

PS Joe Blanton sucks.

btrain929
08-27-2008, 11:44 AM
:threadsucks:

Pretty good? Gavin Floyd is having a ****ing fantastic year... :tongue:

Agreed. Honestly, at the beginning of the year, I was hoping for 11 wins and a 5.00 ERA. As a young #5 starter in the AL, that isn't too bad. Right now, he's at 14 wins, a mid-3 era, and isn't showing signs of fatigue. Madd, madd kudos to him.

asindc
08-27-2008, 11:53 AM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

Who has forgotten? Certainly not many members of this board. I take it you cite this as evidence that KW does not know more than some people give him credit for. If not, then what is your point?

jabrch
08-27-2008, 11:56 AM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

Your understanding of the MLB draft comes perfectly clear in your post.

remember ventura
08-27-2008, 12:00 PM
Who has forgotten? Certainly not many members of this board. I take it you cite this as evidence that KW does not know more than some people give him credit for. If not, then what is your point?

While I give KW great credit for acquiring Danks, Floyd, Quentin, and Thornton in trades, I don't believe this shrewdness will continue. The simple truth is that the sox over-hype their prospects and they perennially falter. I think we saw the ramifications of KW's trade history this year at the deadline when general managers were gun shy to deal with KW. In the the coming months and years, KW will actually have to package legit prospects to get talent in return.

I believe, you have to draft well to have a sustainable farm system. Which, is something that has clearly not occured under KW.

DSpivack
08-27-2008, 12:03 PM
While I give KW great credit for acquiring Danks, Floyd, Quentin, and Thornton in trades, I don't believe this shrewdness will continue. The simple truth is that the sox over-hype their prospects and they perennially falter. I think we saw the ramifications of KW's trade history this year at the deadline when general managers were gun shy to deal with KW. In the the coming months and years, KW will actually have to package legit prospects to get talent in return.

I believe, you have to draft well to have a sustainable farm system. Which, is something that has clearly not occured under KW.

First of all, :rolleyes:.

Second, was Chris Carter now a legit prospect in trading for TCQ? Arizona used Carter to get Dan Haren in a trade. Prospects are just that, prospects. Just because they don't become stars doesn't mean they didn't have talent when you trade for them. That's the risk of acquiring a minor leaguer.

Tragg
08-27-2008, 12:05 PM
He pitched well in most of his games last year.

MisterB
08-27-2008, 12:13 PM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

From 1991-2006, Duane Shaffer ran the draft for the Sox and was in charge of amateur scouting for most of that time. Neither Williams nor Schueler before him had much input into the draft. Kenny was the one who'd finally had enough and removed him after 15+ years of lousy drafting.

CHISOXFAN13
08-27-2008, 12:18 PM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

The same Francoeuer that was sent back to the Minor Leagues? Denard Span the flash in the pan? And Joe Blanton? HA HA. Thanks for the laughs, newbie.

Iwritecode
08-27-2008, 12:21 PM
:threadsucks:

Pretty good? Gavin Floyd is having a ****ing fantastic year... :tongue:

Thread title change? :cool:

jabrch
08-27-2008, 12:45 PM
I think we saw the ramifications of KW's trade history this year at the deadline when general managers were gun shy to deal with KW.

Can you give a single example of a player we were pursuing, and didn't get, because GMs were gunshy to deal with Kenny?

What starter was moved that KW would have wanted? What reliever was moved that we wanted but didn't get? Where is evidence that GMs won't deal with KW? I can give you ample evidence that they will.

As far as overhyped prospects, you don't believe for a moment that teams evaluate prospects based on hype from other teams FO, do you? All teams scout our prospects before making moves for them. Same as we scout other teams and don't go by what they think of their players.

doublem23
08-27-2008, 01:04 PM
I believe, you have to draft well to have a sustainable farm system. Which, is something that has clearly not occured under KW.

The White Sox had the #1 farm system in 2000, and that produced only a handful of Major League players (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/affiliates.cgi?aid=CHW&yid=2000)... By my count:

Joe Crede
Aaron Rowand
Chad Bradford
Mark Buehrle
Jon Garland
Jon Rauch
Those are the only players that even had "decent" careers out of that vaunted minor league system from 2000.

White City
08-27-2008, 01:18 PM
The White Sox had the #1 farm system in 2000, and that produced only a handful of Major League players (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/affiliates.cgi?aid=CHW&yid=2000)... By my count:

Joe Crede
Aaron Rowand
Chad Bradford
Mark Buehrle
Jon Garland
Jon Rauch
Those are the only players that even had "decent" careers out of that vaunted minor league system from 2000.

2/9ths of a World Series position roster and half the World Series rotation -- plus guys we traded to get other pieces. Not so bad. I doubt we have something similar now, but hope we do.

kraut83
08-27-2008, 02:01 PM
Gavin seems to have gotten much better since he first got here with getting ahead of hitters in the count. That alone has to have improved his confidence on the mound.

For as much as the "Coop can fix him" rally cry is thrown around here, well, Coop really has helped him get his head on straight!

CashMan
08-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Gavin seems to have gotten much better since he first got here with getting ahead of hitters in the count. That alone has to have improved his confidence on the mound.

For as much as the "Coop can fix him" rally cry is thrown around here, well, Coop really has helped him get his head on straight!


I love me some Gavin Floyd!

doublem23
08-27-2008, 02:29 PM
2/9ths of a World Series position roster and half the World Series rotation -- plus guys we traded to get other pieces. Not so bad. I doubt we have something similar now, but hope we do.

Yeah, but there was plenty of overhyped crap there. Tim Hummel! Edwin Almonte!

I think we have some good pieces now, anyway... I'm hoping 1 of the Broadway/Richard/Poreda monster pans out as a good MLB starter, Chris Getz has looked good, Jon Link has had a good year, Brandon Allen is at least a mildly intriguing left-handed power bat, and the '07 Draft duo of Beckham & Danks have gotten off to good professional careers.

I don't think the cupboard is as bare as lot of people make it out to be. No, we don't have a system like Arizona or Oakland, but we've got a GM and owner who are willing to bring in outside talent to complement what our own organization produces.

Jeckle2000
08-27-2008, 02:31 PM
I was mocked this off season every time I told people that Gavin Floyd was poised for a break out year in 2008. I'll be honest I wasn't that excited about the deal when it first happened. However he had his true break out in September of 2007, when he had a great month. After that I was completely sure he was going to break out in 2008. And he has. Gavin has fantastic stuff and the Phillies don't know much about baseball to give up on a kid as young as Floyd with the stuff he had.

btrain929
08-27-2008, 02:34 PM
I was mocked this off season every time I told people that Gavin Floyd was poised for a break out year in 2008. I'll be honest I wasn't that excited about the deal when it first happened. However he had his true break out in September of 2007, when he had a great month. After that I was completely sure he was going to break out in 2008. And he has. Gavin has fantastic stuff and the Phillies don't know much about baseball to give up on a kid as young as Floyd with the stuff he had.

:whiner::whiner::whiner:

spawn
08-27-2008, 02:36 PM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.
I guess every silver lining has a dark cloud. And here I thought it was the other way around.:rolleyes:

Carolina Kenny
08-27-2008, 02:37 PM
Gavin is one of the top Flyod's in White Sox history.

Right behind Flyod Robinson.

doublem23
08-27-2008, 02:37 PM
I was mocked this off season every time I told people that Gavin Floyd was poised for a break out year in 2008. I'll be honest I wasn't that excited about the deal when it first happened. However he had his true break out in September of 2007, when he had a great month. After that I was completely sure he was going to break out in 2008. And he has. Gavin has fantastic stuff and the Phillies don't know much about baseball to give up on a kid as young as Floyd with the stuff he had.

Meh, not many people believed the Sox were going anywhere this season.

cards press box
08-27-2008, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes:

how quickly people forget that kenny williams drafted royce ring in the 1st round passing up joe blanton... matt cain, denard span, and even jeff francoeur.

since his takeover of the sox, he has consistently squandered our 1st round draftpick choices.

Last year, Mr. Williams replaced Duane Shaffer, took a more a active role in the drafting process and urged the organization to draft players with higher ceilings.

The result of this new philosophy? Last year, the Sox took lefty Aaron Poreda with their 1st pick and he's one of the top prospects in the organization. This year's draft class, led by Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks, looks stellar.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Kenny Williams is the best GM the White Sox have ever had. If someone can think of a better one, I'd like to know who that is.

Carolina Kenny
08-27-2008, 02:46 PM
Last year, Mr. Williams replaced Duane Shaffer, took a more a active role in the drafting process and urged the organization to draft players with higher ceilings.

The result of this new philosophy? Last year, the Sox took lefty Aaron Poreda with their 1st pick and he's one of the top prospects in the organization. This year's draft class, led by Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks, looks stellar.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Kenny Williams is the best GM the White Sox have ever had. If someone can think of a better one, I'd like to know who that is.

Frank Trader Lane

cards press box
08-27-2008, 02:54 PM
Frank Trader Lane

Frank Lane helped create the Go-Go White Sox and he certainly deserves credit for that. However, his overall record is pretty uneven and, unlike Williams, Lane did not lead the franchise to a World Championship. Don't forget, Lane was the Indians GM who traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn. Many analysts believed that Lane made too many trades for the sake of making trades and, thus, spent much of his time "spinning his wheels."

Lane did make the trades with the Tigers for Billy Pierce and the A's for Nellie Fox and, to be sure, those were unbelievably lopsided deals in favor of the White Sox. Oddly enough, Lane almost certainly helped the Sox get the AL pennant in 1959 when, as Indians' GM, he traded Al Smith and Early Wynn to the White Sox for Minnie Minoso.

jabrch
08-27-2008, 04:53 PM
Last year, Mr. Williams replaced Duane Shaffer, took a more a active role in the drafting process and urged the organization to draft players with higher ceilings.

The result of this new philosophy? Last year, the Sox took lefty Aaron Poreda with their 1st pick and he's one of the top prospects in the organization. This year's draft class, led by Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks, looks stellar.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Kenny Williams is the best GM the White Sox have ever had. If someone can think of a better one, I'd like to know who that is.

I'll call BS on this. Poreda was considered by most to be the very signable option - we passed on Rick Porcello who was the much higher ceiling player. And Gordan Beckham was not drafted as a "high ceiling" player. He was drafted because we sucked such tremendously last year that we drafted Top 10. Danks was a guy we had tagged for a while, and paid over slot money to get, not for high potential as his power doesn't appear (based on his freshman year) to be what we'd expect. I don't see this great change in organizational philosophy that you see illustrated in those three picks.

As far as best Sox GM - let's see what he does over time.

jabrch
08-27-2008, 05:03 PM
we don't have a system like Arizona or Oakland,

Coincidentally, we haven't traded away our best players once they started to get expensive, we have aggressively added veteran impact players, and we have only had one very bad season under KW's tenure.

How did AZ build a strong farm? 2004, 2005 and 2006 were terrible with 51, 77 and 76 wins respectively. If anyone has the patience for the Sox to be this terrible (and our fans last year proved that they don't) then we could build that sort of farm.

How does Oakland do it? Easy... Name the best big $, high impact FA they have signed? Can't think of too many. What did they do with their best FAs? They traded or let all of them go in FA except Chavez. Want to see us let Buehrle go last year - we could have. Want to see Dye go? How about TCQ in 3 years? Want to see Alexei moved in 2 years? Maggs had unique injury issues. Aaron was used to get Thome who was a bigger need in the eyes of many. But in general, KW has kept his guys. (PK, Dye, Buehrle, etc.) Also - since the As are always playing for next year, trading veteran stars like the Big 3/6, they have never had a team quite good enough to win. Always the bridesmaid...

Tell me you want to be either of those other franchises - just to have a better farm and that you are willing to have their weaknesses. I wouldn't - I feel confident that the Sox will win another WS before either of them will.

RockJock07
08-27-2008, 07:02 PM
Coincidentally, we haven't traded away our best players once they started to get expensive, we have aggressively added veteran impact players, and we have only had one very bad season under KW's tenure.

How did AZ build a strong farm? 2004, 2005 and 2006 were terrible with 51, 77 and 76 wins respectively. If anyone has the patience for the Sox to be this terrible (and our fans last year proved that they don't) then we could build that sort of farm.

How does Oakland do it? Easy... Name the best big $, high impact FA they have signed? Can't think of too many. What did they do with their best FAs? They traded or let all of them go in FA except Chavez. Want to see us let Buehrle go last year - we could have. Want to see Dye go? How about TCQ in 3 years? Want to see Alexei moved in 2 years? Maggs had unique injury issues. Aaron was used to get Thome who was a bigger need in the eyes of many. But in general, KW has kept his guys. (PK, Dye, Buehrle, etc.) Also - since the As are always playing for next year, trading veteran stars like the Big 3/6, they have never had a team quite good enough to win. Always the bridesmaid...

Tell me you want to be either of those other franchises - just to have a better farm and that you are willing to have their weaknesses. I wouldn't - I feel confident that the Sox will win another WS before either of them will.

Great post. The sox will never have a system like Milwaukee (7 of their 9 starters are home grown) unless they are picking at the top of the 1st round the next 5-6 years. Hopefully with Duane gone that means the KW and Bell will be doing a better job of scouting despit picking at the end of round 1.

The sox have just enough prospects to use in trading for players that are young and have a high ceiling (Swisher, Danks, Gavin, TCQ.) I think we will see josh Fields traded this off-season to get another arm.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-27-2008, 07:54 PM
Great post. The sox will never have a system like Milwaukee (7 of their 9 starters are home grown) unless they are picking at the top of the 1st round the next 5-6 years. Hopefully with Duane gone that means the KW and Bell will be doing a better job of scouting despit picking at the end of round 1.

The sox have just enough prospects to use in trading for players that are young and have a high ceiling (Swisher, Danks, Gavin, TCQ.) I think we will see josh Fields traded this off-season to get another arm.

I'd agree that Fields is good as gone in the off-season. He seems to have really fallen out of favor with Ozzie and KW. I just hope that he still has some value after this season.

Tragg
08-28-2008, 09:26 AM
The sox have just enough prospects to use in trading for players that are young and have a high ceiling (Swisher, Danks, Gavin, TCQ.) I think we will see josh Fields traded this off-season to get another arm.
What kind of arm? Yet another ceiling middle reliever?
We should have money through FA for arms.
Guillen's skill at judging talent is bad at best: Erstad is a .400 quality player; Jerry Owens >Quentin and Ramirez; Uribe > Ramirez and Quentin. etc etc.

TheVulture
08-29-2008, 12:54 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Kenny Williams is the best GM the White Sox have ever had. If someone can think of a better one, I'd like to know who that is.

I'm a huge KW fan and think he pulls off the best deals of any GM in the game. However, he does have the weakness of not necessarily putting the best combination of players together. It still irritates me even though the sox are in first that he seems to refuse to get a good defensive CFer, has had a tendency in the past to put together a shaky bullpen, no true lead-off hitter, too many plodders, etc. But, he tends to put together enough talent to compensate for a less than immaculately constructed team by thoroughly ripping teams off and finding bargains like Dye, Pierzynski, Ramirez and others. It also amazes me that he uses our "barren" farm system to regularly acquire all-star caliber, or at least good quality, major league players. He's also got a gift for making moves that simultaneously help the team immediately and long-term. Swisher is a good example - stop gap CFer for '08 who can take over a corner OF or 1b in the future, as PK and Dye age. Course, it's starting to look like Dye may be an ageless wonder, but at the start of the year, I thought he was sliding fast.

cards press box
08-30-2008, 05:15 PM
I'll call BS on this. Poreda was considered by most to be the very signable option - we passed on Rick Porcello who was the much higher ceiling player. And Gordan Beckham was not drafted as a "high ceiling" player. He was drafted because we sucked such tremendously last year that we drafted Top 10. Danks was a guy we had tagged for a while, and paid over slot money to get, not for high potential as his power doesn't appear (based on his freshman year) to be what we'd expect. I don't see this great change in organizational philosophy that you see illustrated in those three picks.

As far as best Sox GM - let's see what he does over time.

Porcello is a Boras client. The Sox are hardly the only team to pass over a Boras client and draft a different player they liked. In any event, Poreda was a high ceiling guy and, in drafting him, the Sox diverted from a philosophy that led them to draft Lyle McCullough and Lance Broadway, right handers without the stuff or potential that Poreda has, in previous years.

I know that the Sox were bad in 2007. So what? The point is that the Sox took a high ceiling middle infielder with their first pick and, as you acknowledge, paid over slot money to obtain Jordan Danks. Those are good moves and I applaud Kenny Williams for getting it done.

As for Williams' tenure as GM, I'm saying that based upon his body of work to this point, he's the best GM the Sox have ever had. I suspect that he will only get better with time.

I'm a huge KW fan and think he pulls off the best deals of any GM in the game. However, he does have the weakness of not necessarily putting the best combination of players together. It still irritates me even though the sox are in first that he seems to refuse to get a good defensive CFer, has had a tendency in the past to put together a shaky bullpen, no true lead-off hitter, too many plodders, etc. But, he tends to put together enough talent to compensate for a less than immaculately constructed team by thoroughly ripping teams off and finding bargains like Dye, Pierzynski, Ramirez and others. It also amazes me that he uses our "barren" farm system to regularly acquire all-star caliber, or at least good quality, major league players. He's also got a gift for making moves that simultaneously help the team immediately and long-term. Swisher is a good example - stop gap CFer for '08 who can take over a corner OF or 1b in the future, as PK and Dye age. Course, it's starting to look like Dye may be an ageless wonder, but at the start of the year, I thought he was sliding fast.

Williams has made some remarkable moves that are paying big dividends this year. Where, for example, would the White Sox be if he had not traded a single A prospect for Carlos Quentin? If he had not signed Alexei Ramirez as a free agent? If he had not traded for Gavin Floyd? Yes, the Sox don't have a Tim Raines leading off but, you know, Orlando Cabrera has done just fine. The Sox are 3rd in the AL in runs scored and 5th in team ERA. The Sox are in the thick of a great pennant race, currently have a .567 winning percentage and are on pace to win 92 games.

Williams has done a fantastic job.