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sox230
08-26-2008, 01:13 PM
I realize that the sox never go more than 4 years on pitchers, but i was thinking. What did we do with all that money by not signing Torii. Contreras leaving also frees up 10 million right there. Even though it might be a long shot, he would fit perfect with this team. I believe that we are the only team in playoff contention this year without a quote unquote dominant ace. What do y'all think?

twentywontowin
08-26-2008, 01:14 PM
If we could get him, I'd love to have him.

btrain929
08-26-2008, 01:17 PM
Contreras is making 10 million next year to be hurt. His contract isn't going anywhere. Just because they approved 75 million to be spent on him, then didn't, doesn't mean they are obligated to spend it somehow.

CC wants to play in the National League, and preferably on the West Coast. No way does he come here. Dodgers are the front runners.

Marqhead
08-26-2008, 01:18 PM
We have more pressing needs.

areilly
08-26-2008, 01:22 PM
It would be nice to bring him to the South Side, but as stated elsewhere there are numerous tweaks that need to be made, and would probably be more beneficial, than simply adding C.C. Sabathia. But if Sox brass wanted to go crazy, I wouldn't object.

DSpivack
08-26-2008, 01:23 PM
Rotation isn't really a weakness, with Buehrle-Vazquez-Floyd-Danks-?. Also, signing a 300lb guy to a $100+million contract doesn't seem very prudent.

102605
08-26-2008, 01:24 PM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i112/shaunburnette/Untitled-1copy.jpg

JermaineDye05
08-26-2008, 01:30 PM
He eats too many cheeseburgers.

CashMan
08-26-2008, 01:37 PM
Contreras is making 10 million next year to be hurt. His contract isn't going anywhere. Just because they approved 75 million to be spent on him, then didn't, doesn't mean they are obligated to spend it somehow.



Ya, might wanna check that. I am about 99% sure, his contract along with Uribe, and Cabrera's(sp?) are up at the end of the year. That is something like $25ish million?

btrain929
08-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Ya, might wanna check that. I am about 99% sure, his contract along with Uribe, and Cabrera's(sp?) are up at the end of the year. That is something like $25ish million?

This is me "checking that......." and, well, I guess I am your 1%.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

He signed a 3 year extension in 2006 that started in 2007. 2009 is the last year of his deal, worth 10 million.

102605
08-26-2008, 01:45 PM
The White Sox are on the hook for 10 million on Contreras next season.

KRS1
08-26-2008, 01:46 PM
I could be wrong, but wouldn't insurance pick up the tab if he is unable to perform next year?

eriqjaffe
08-26-2008, 01:47 PM
What happens to that $10m if Contreras decides to hang it up? Is there an MLB rule about that, or is that taken by the player/club/league up on a case-by-case basis?

palehozenychicty
08-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Oh, they'll sign for him. When he's 38 and can't throw anymore. :D:

CashMan
08-26-2008, 02:05 PM
This is me "checking that......." and, well, I guess I am your 1%.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

He signed a 3 year extension in 2006 that started in 2007. 2009 is the last year of his deal, worth 10 million.


I was pretty sure, Garland and Jose signed the same contract.

munchman33
08-26-2008, 02:35 PM
The Yankees, fresh off of missing the playoffs for the first time in over a decade, have over $50 million coming off the books this offseason from players that won't be back. I don't think there's a scenerio they don't wind up with both Sabathia and Texiera, short of Hank selling the team.

Optipessimism
08-26-2008, 02:40 PM
I was pretty sure, Garland and Jose signed the same contract.
No they didn't. Contreras is on the hook for 2009.

Edit: I believe Garland's deal was to buy out an arbitration year or two as well as a free agent year. Contreras' extension was simply to keep him from hitting the market as he wasn't arb-eligible.

DumpJerry
08-26-2008, 03:13 PM
I could be wrong, but wouldn't insurance pick up the tab if he is unable to perform next year?
I was wondering the same thing, too.

CC won't come here. He's made it clear he wants to get back to his roots in California where he can also get at bats. That spells Dodgers.

He also turned down $20,000,000 per year from the Indians before the season started and they were considered a contender.

35th and Shields
08-26-2008, 04:33 PM
We have more pressing needs.

Filling a spot in the rotation isn't important? :scratch:

DSpivack
08-26-2008, 04:36 PM
I was wondering the same thing, too.

CC won't come here. He's made it clear he wants to get back to his roots in California where he can also get at bats. That spells Dodgers.

He also turned down $20,000,000 per year from the Indians before the season started and they were considered a contender.

Yeah, I've read the same thing re: California. I believe he's from the Bay Area, and obviously the A's wouldn't spend that kind of money on one player. I don't see the Giants giving another $100-million contract to a pitcher. The Angels are pretty deep pitching-wise, they don't seem to have a need for a SP, although Garland could be gone. I don't see the Padres spending that kind of money on a pitcher. That leaves just one team, the Dodgers.

Soxfest
08-26-2008, 05:21 PM
Not going to happen!

TDog
08-26-2008, 05:53 PM
A lot of people in baseball at the start of the season believed Sabathia was an accident waiting to happen. Perhaps with his dominance for the Brewers (he had picked up his game considerably before going to the Brewers), people have forgotten such concerns. His arm has never been, and many believe, won't be in his next contract, the problem. It is possible that some of the fears surrounding a potential commitment to Sabathia have been alleviated.

I'm sure that barring some untimely injury this season, there will be at least two teams with money to squander that believe have to have him this offseason.

thedudeabides
08-26-2008, 06:06 PM
He will get 5-7 years somewhere, which puts the Sox out of the mix. Not that they would have been in it anyways. They don't run their organization that way and I'm glad they don't. 5-7 years for pitchers is crazy.

Zisk77
08-27-2008, 09:17 AM
I think CC is a poor health risk to sign a long term contract simply because he's fat. He already has shown a history of nagging leg injuries. While his arm has been healthy and he is a horse, being overweight tends to cause back pain. pitchers tend to change their motion when experience both back or leg pain. this often leads to damaging your arm...see Bartolo Colon.

the same reason we were lucky the Angels out bid us for Bart's services, maybe why its better for the Yankees (or the mets - my prediction) buy on C.C.

doublem23
08-27-2008, 09:33 AM
I think CC is a poor health risk to sign a long term contract simply because he's fat. He already has shown a history of nagging leg injuries. While his arm has been healthy and he is a horse, being overweight tends to cause back pain. pitchers tend to change their motion when experience both back or leg pain. this often leads to damaging your arm...see Bartolo Colon.

the same reason we were lucky the Angels out bid us for Bart's services, maybe why its better for the Yankees (or the mets - my prediction) buy on C.C.

What nagging injuries? The guy is a horse, he's never made fewer than 28 starts in his career, averages 221 IP/162 G, and has never dipped under 180 per year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sabatc.01.shtml

However, I still believe the Yankees are going to make him an offer he can't refuse. They're shedding a ton of payroll this year and they're going to miss the postseason for the first time in over a decade. Not to mention they're opening that new ballyard... Perfect storm for Hank Steinbrenner to open up the vault.

SoxfaninLA
08-27-2008, 11:18 AM
CC is going to get a 6/140 deal from someone in the offseason, and I can almost guarantee it won't be the White Sox. Signing pitchers to these long term big money deals is simply not a good idea. There is a list as long as my arm of guys that got contracts that were absolute anchors on a team by the time they were in the last couple years of the contract. I wouldn't worry about arm injuries with Sabathia as much as I would be concerned about the weight he is carrying around. That will eventually catch up to his knees and back, and when he goes down you will be eating that 23 million a year because that contract will be almost impossible to insure.

NLaloosh
08-27-2008, 11:18 AM
I think we'll get him the same way we got ARod.

Dub25
09-01-2008, 11:42 PM
Rotation isn't really a weakness, with Buehrle-Vazquez-Floyd-Danks-?. Also, signing a 300lb guy to a $100+million contract doesn't seem very prudent.

You're right, not a weakness but CC is a lights out guy every time he takes the mound. I can't say the same about our guys.

ComiskeyBrewer
09-02-2008, 04:36 AM
You're right, not a weakness but CC is a lights out guy every time he takes the mound. I can't say the same about our guys.

He is now, but will he still be 4-5 years down the line of that 6 year deal? I don't think so. Sox should stay away.

Frater Perdurabo
09-02-2008, 07:21 AM
He is now, but will he still be 4-5 years down the line of that 6 year deal? I don't think so. Sox should stay away.

I'm not sure I worry about 2012-2014 right now if CC helps the Sox win division titles and go deep into the playoffs in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

spiffie
09-02-2008, 10:21 AM
There is plenty of pitching in our organization to not spend tons of money on Cheeseburger.

Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Vazquez, Broadway will be a top-3 rotation in the AL for the next few years. By the time one of the older pitchers leaves, Poreda should be ready. No thanks. Rather put that money towards keeping our own guys who have helped us stay in first place almost the entire season (Crede, Uribe, Cabrera) and extending some of the younger guys who deserve it (Jenks, Quentin, Ramirez).

oeo
09-02-2008, 10:31 AM
As much of a horse Sabathia has been, I'd be very wary of him. All those innings combined with his obvious physical issues look to add up to disaster over the 5 or 6 years he's likely to get.

I'd love to have him in the short term, but would hate to have him in the long term.

Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Vazquez, Broadway will be a top-3 rotation in the AL for the next few years.

What has Broadway shown you that makes you believe he can start in the majors every 5th day? Richard is higher on the team's depth chart, and rightfully so.

oeo
09-02-2008, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure I worry about 2012-2014 right now if CC helps the Sox win division titles and go deep into the playoffs in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

I'm all about right now, but this is just a stupid. Three years of ~$20 million for possibly no results could be potentially disastrous to the franchise. There are times to take your risks, but this isn't one of them.

We're not on an unlimited payroll. Next year, Thome, Konerko, and unfortunately Contreras will still be on the books. There's no room for Sabathia now, and there definitely wouldn't be room for him in a few years when it looks like he may not be pitching very often (of course that's just my opinion).

Domeshot17
09-02-2008, 11:46 AM
After the playoffs people are going to be singing a different tune. The truth is we don't have a top flight starter for a deep playoff run. Who do you trust that could win against Beckett (if healthy) or Matsuzaka (and walks or not, the guy has been very good), Lackey, Kazmir etc? If they make the world series, who could pitch against CC-Zambrano-Santana? That is the role Freddy Garcia filled. He could step his game up at any time and match any number 1 pitch for pitch. We don't have that. The league has figured our Buehrle enough that he is a mid rotation guy on a great team, Danks will be that guy ONE DAY, but how much do we want to put on him now? Vazquez crumbles under pressure and thats been his wrap his entire career and as much as I love Floyd, everytime he starts you have to wonder if he is going to be unhittable or give up 4-5 runs and battle. We are deep in the back end of the rotation, no doubt, but the lack of an Ace has a huge chance to burn us.

All that said, CC is not coming here. He will be warm weathered in 2009 unless he ends up in the Bronx. The guy you could probably get for a 4 year deal but still costly is going to be Ben Sheets. He has that injury history, but when on he can dominate. Another option If I am reading the FA to be list correct is Ryan Dempster, but I still wonder if he is going to be a guy who made enough changes to dominate for a year before teams figure him out (but even he isn't really a number 1)

Lip Man 1
09-02-2008, 12:12 PM
Assuming the Sox have insurance on him (no one knows for sure but most clubs do have a policy on older players) it kicks in only if Contreras misses the entire 2009 season.

If he makes a few starts say at the end in September for example, the Sox are on the hook for the ten million.

Lip

Zisk77
09-02-2008, 03:07 PM
What nagging injuries? The guy is a horse, he's never made fewer than 28 starts in his career, averages 221 IP/162 G, and has never dipped under 180 per year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sabatc.01.shtml

However, I still believe the Yankees are going to make him an offer he can't refuse. They're shedding a ton of payroll this year and they're going to miss the postseason for the first time in over a decade. Not to mention they're opening that new ballyard... Perfect storm for Hank Steinbrenner to open up the vault.


cc has left numerous games in Cle with strains to various leg muscles and cramping in forearms. opening day 2006 for example he left game with a strained groin I believe.

he has been a horse in his career to date...so HAD Bartolo Colon. overweight = back pain = Changing motion to compensate = disaster. I would not be willing to rsik a multi-million multi year deal on such a person.

Don't get me wrong i love CC stuff and competiveness.

hellview
09-02-2008, 05:56 PM
he has been a horse in his career to date...so HAD Bartolo Colon. overweight = back pain = Changing motion to compensate = disaster. I would not be willing to rsik a multi-million multi year deal on such a person.


So because 1 fat pitcher(Colon, who I belive his healthy problems had more to do with him being 5"11" then 275 pounds) gets hurt that means it's gonna happen to CC?

What about David Wells?

Zisk77
09-02-2008, 06:37 PM
So because 1 fat pitcher(Colon, who I belive his healthy problems had more to do with him being 5"11" then 275 pounds) gets hurt that means it's gonna happen to CC?

What about David Wells?


Of course not, but it greatly increases the risk. Anytime you have to change your throwing motion to compensate for pain you run the risk of blowing out your arm. It ended Dizzy Dean's career trying to pitch with a broken toe and hurt is arm. Colon was just one example of what can happen and Colon's problem had everthing to do with weight. While, Wells didn't have any major arm injuries he spent numerous time on the dl with back problems and the like.

Simply put, If i'm going to give a pitcher (which is a dicey proposition anyway with the inherent risk of arm injury) the kind of money the CC is going to command he better be in good physical condition and have flawless mechanics. Fair enough?

munchman33
09-02-2008, 07:14 PM
Simply put, If i'm going to give a pitcher (which is a dicey proposition anyway with the inherent risk of arm injury) the kind of money the CC is going to command he better be in good physical condition and have flawless mechanics.

I'd rather have someone who's good.

jabrch
09-02-2008, 09:07 PM
I can't see JR/KW giving CC more money and years than they gave MB. And I don't see CC going anywhere close to that amount.

getonbckthr
09-02-2008, 09:29 PM
I wouldn't touch CC with Steinbrenner's money. He is gonna get 7 years at about 21 per year. He is a big guy who is getting abused by him current employer. His natural frame is troubling for his back and legs. The abuse Milwaukee has put him through thus far will wear on his arm. I don't wanna hear about back in my day pitchers threw 200 pitches and started 50 games. Today these pitchers aren't designed that way. They are set up for 30+ starts and around 100 pitches. It seems like the Brew-Crew continually has him throw around 125. Thats a sure sign for trouble.

oeo
09-02-2008, 10:00 PM
After the playoffs people are going to be singing a different tune.

Nope.

6-7 years on a pitcher is risky enough. Considering Sabathia's physical condition, it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

BTW, how did CC fair in the playoffs last year? I seem to remember a complete choke job.

Domeshot17
09-02-2008, 11:20 PM
Nope.

6-7 years on a pitcher is risky enough. Considering Sabathia's physical condition, it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

BTW, how did CC fair in the playoffs last year? I seem to remember a complete choke job.

It is just the way the game is. You have to have atleast 1 flat out dominating SP to win in the playoffs, but probably really 2. Boston has 2, LA has 3, Tampa has 1, We have none.

If we make the playoffs, Ozzie will give the ball to Burls for his veteran leadership in game 1, and when we go down 5-1, all of our holes are going to be grand canyon sized. What wins in the playoffs? Dominant Starting Pitching and a great bullpen, we have neither.

There are only 3 ways to pick up an Ace SP. Develop one (and with our pathetic system, the best arm in it is Matt Thornton Junior aka Poreda with no secondary pitches), Trade for one (and we have nothing to trade) or sign one. If we want to win another world series, we either have to get blind lucky, hope Danks Floyd can become a number 1, or be willing to spend on pitching.

shes
09-02-2008, 11:30 PM
It seems like the Brew-Crew continually has him throw around 125. Thats a sure sign for trouble.

I think he's averaging around 113 for Milwaukee. On the year he's at about 109 pitches per start, which is 6 over his career average. Over the course of a season that comes out to about 200 extra pitches. That's about 2 extra starts worth of pitches. I don't think that's too taxing on a guy who's always been a horse.

Domeshot17
09-02-2008, 11:45 PM
Broadway and Richard are both very well built physical pitchers.

Would you take either of them over CC?

Zisk77
09-03-2008, 11:32 AM
I'd rather have someone who's good.


Well duh.

StillMissOzzie
09-04-2008, 02:37 AM
He also turned down $20,000,000 per year from the Indians before the season started and they were considered a contender.

He will get 5-7 years somewhere, which puts the Sox out of the mix. Not that they would have been in it anyways. They don't run their organization that way and I'm glad they don't. 5-7 years for pitchers is crazy.

I have no idea whether CC would take $20M per year from a team he considered MORE of a contender than the Tribe, but even so, all indications are that he'll want:
1) At least $20M/year
2) For at least 6 years

Neither of these fit in with the White Sox modus operandi.

SMO
:gulp:

whitesox901
09-04-2008, 12:27 PM
CC's not coming here, give me Ben Sheets

doublem23
09-04-2008, 12:35 PM
CC's not coming here, give me Ben Sheets

:thud:

I, too, want to totally overpay for a guy who hasn't thrown 200+ IP in a season since 2004.

palehozenychicty
09-04-2008, 12:54 PM
:thud:

I, too, want to totally overpay for a guy who hasn't thrown 200+ IP in a season since 2004.


Indeed.

Tragg
09-04-2008, 01:21 PM
I realize that the sox never go more than 4 years on pitchers, but i was thinking. What did we do with all that money by not signing Torii. Contreras leaving also frees up 10 million right there. Even though it might be a long shot, he would fit perfect with this team. I believe that we are the only team in playoff contention this year without a quote unquote dominant ace. What do y'all think?
he's really a gamer, isn't he? I just wonder if he's over-used this year.
anyway, we should have money freed up -especially if Cabrera rejects arbitration.

guillensdisciple
09-04-2008, 10:16 PM
C.C would be awesome in a Sox uniform, that would more or less guarantee dominance in the central for the next 6 years or so. We already have established an excellent young core, imagine adding another great player to that, the sox would be favorites for years to come.