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doublem23
08-26-2008, 01:11 PM
The White Sox are the only team in baseball with 4 starters who have tossed 150+ IP this season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/757

UofCSoxFan
08-26-2008, 01:16 PM
The White Sox are the only team in baseball with 4 starters who have tossed 150+ IP this season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/757

I think this is a testament to our starter's health. Buerhle and Vazquez have typically been amongst the league leader's in innings pitched if I'm not mistaken.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-26-2008, 01:20 PM
The White Sox are the only team in baseball with 4 starters who have tossed 150+ IP this season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/757

Which begs the question: Why, then, are our relievers so overtaxed? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe all other teams' pens are suffering worse than the Sox's, but it seems the Sox relievers have been overly stressed since July.

(Maybe it's all linked to Linebrink being out. He may be that important to everyone in the pen.)

doublem23
08-26-2008, 01:20 PM
I think this is a testament to our starter's health. Buerhle and Vazquez have typically been amongst the league leader's in innings pitched if I'm not mistaken.

I believe it's also a testament to the Sox's coaching staff to have Floyd and Danks continue to pitch well this deep into the season. Floyd looks like he's got his head screwed on straight and is tapping into his potential and Danks isn't slowing down the way he did last year.

I was very nervous in March and April about the prospect of having them both start every 5th day but they've been terrific. I hope they're rocks in the rotation for the better part of the next decade.

doublem23
08-26-2008, 01:28 PM
Which begs the question: Why, then, are our relievers so overtaxed? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe all other teams' pens are suffering worse than the Sox's, but it seems the Sox relievers have been overly stressed since July.

(Maybe it's all linked to Linebrink being out. He may be that important to everyone in the pen.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=thirdInnings&split=128&group=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=pitching&type=reg

Only 4 teams' bullpens have pitched fewer innings than the Sox; Milwaukee, Cleveland, Toronto, and the Angels.

:scratch:

It is puzzling. I'm guessing that the absense of Linebrink and the stability he brought to the back of the 'pen has been stressing it. They were at their best when the chain of command was clearly established: Jenks in the 9th, Linebrink in the 8th, Dotel in the 7th, Thornto/Logan LOOGY, Masset mop-up.

Eddo144
08-26-2008, 01:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=thirdInnings&split=128&group=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=pitching&type=reg

Only 4 teams' bullpens have pitched fewer innings than the Sox; Milwaukee, Cleveland, Toronto, and the Angels.

:scratch:

It is puzzling. I'm guessing that the absense of Linebrink and the stability he brought to the back of the 'pen has been stressing it. They were at their best when the chain of command was clearly established: Jenks in the 9th, Linebrink in the 8th, Dotel in the 7th, Thornto/Logan LOOGY, Masset mop-up.
I don't think it's that puzzling. All this figure is saying is that the Sox have four specific pitchers with 150+ innings pitched, not that their first four rotation spots have thrown more innings than other clubs.

Let's look at a hypothetical example: Team A vs. Team B. The breakdown of starting pitching 129 games into the season is listed below.

A1: 26 starts, 182 innings.
A2: 26 starts, 156 innings.
A3: 22 starts, 132 innings.
A4: 21 starts, 126 innings.
A5: 16 starts, 112 innings.
A6: 9 starts, 54 innings.
A7: 4 starts, 24 innings.
A8: 2 starts, 10 innings.
A9: 2 starts, 8 innings.
A10: 1 start, 6 innings.

B1: 26 starts, 182 innings.
B2: 26 starts, 156 innings.
B3: 26 starts, 156 innings.
B4: 25 starts, 150 innings.
B5: 18 starts, 108 innings.
B6: 6 starts, 36 innings.
B7: 2 starts, 10 innings.

Team A's starters have made 129 starts and thrown 810 innings in those starts. Team B's starters have made 129 starts and thrown 798 innings in those starts. Team B, due to having a healthy rotation all year, has four starters with 150+ innings pitched, but Team A only has two. However, Team B's bullpen has thrown more innings (if we assume there haven't been an extreme amount of extra-inning games for either team).

MisterB
08-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Which begs the question: Why, then, are our relievers so overtaxed? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe all other teams' pens are suffering worse than the Sox's, but it seems the Sox relievers have been overly stressed since July.

(Maybe it's all linked to Linebrink being out. He may be that important to everyone in the pen.)

Also Contreras and Jenks were DL'd in July, so there was a lot of holes to fill and Dotel and Thornton were leaned on heavily (they're both in the top 10 in the AL in appearances, with 120 games between them).

TDog
08-26-2008, 01:51 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=thirdInnings&split=128&group=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=pitching&type=reg

Only 4 teams' bullpens have pitched fewer innings than the Sox; Milwaukee, Cleveland, Toronto, and the Angels.

:scratch:

It is puzzling. I'm guessing that the absense of Linebrink and the stability he brought to the back of the 'pen has been stressing it. They were at their best when the chain of command was clearly established: Jenks in the 9th, Linebrink in the 8th, Dotel in the 7th, Thornto/Logan LOOGY, Masset mop-up.

Kind of difficult to reconcile, isn't it. The Sox have played some extra-inning games, but so have other teams.

The bullpen was lights out at times early in the season. When Joe Morgan famously said the Sox bullpen was the best he had ever seen, it was as good as it gets. Jenks going down (with problems unrelated to his pitching arm) put strain on Linebrink that Sox fans attributed to lack of mental toughness. When the A relievers Linebrink and Jenks went down, the B relievers felt more strain.

People who complained that the Sox bullpen went from being great to being bad, even 2007-esque, overnight, didn't notice that other bullpens have had problems earlier in the season when their A and B relievers were overworked. Just this week, the Twins have lost two late leads and have lost the games. The Rays bullpen blew a save on Sunday. The fact that their closer is on the DL could be overtaxing their bullpen.

It isn't necessarily how many innings a bullpen pitches but who in the bullpen is doing the pitching that overtaxes a relief staff.

35th and Shields
08-26-2008, 02:16 PM
Only 4 teams' bullpens have pitched fewer innings than the Sox; Milwaukee, Cleveland, Toronto, and the Angels.

:scratch:

It is puzzling. I'm guessing that the absense of Linebrink and the stability he brought to the back of the 'pen has been stressing it. They were at their best when the chain of command was clearly established: Jenks in the 9th, Linebrink in the 8th, Dotel in the 7th, Thornto/Logan LOOGY, Masset mop-up.

With Linebrink out of the bullpen it basically takes out are best middle relief man and in tight situations we have go to Dotel, Thornton, and Carrasco way more often then you would like to. I don't think that the whole bullpen is taxed but when you take out a main contributer from it puts a little more pressure on your other main guys to pitch an out or two more then they would usually have to

Konerko05
08-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Overtaxed bullpen is most likely due to the absense of Linebrink, and our relievers pitching in many stressful situations.

Guillen seems to like to bring in our relievers with men on base and expects them to get out of jams as opposed to letting our relievers start fresh at the beginning of the inning. Again this goes back to Linebrink getting hurt. Our 7-8-9 inning system was working perfectly before that.

oeo
08-26-2008, 03:20 PM
Which begs the question: Why, then, are our relievers so overtaxed? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe all other teams' pens are suffering worse than the Sox's, but it seems the Sox relievers have been overly stressed since July.

That doesn't mean they've been overused. We haven't seen any evidence of fatigue being the problem.

voodoochile
08-26-2008, 03:41 PM
Overtaxed bullpen is most likely due to the absense of Linebrink, and our relievers pitching in many stressful situations.

Guillen seems to like to bring in our relievers with men on base and expects them to get out of jams as opposed to letting our relievers start fresh at the beginning of the inning. Again this goes back to Linebrink getting hurt. Our 7-8-9 inning system was working perfectly before that.

Lots of close games too and Ozzie really only trusts 4 guys at present. I get if you check the number of innings Dotel has thrown this year he will be close to league leader for relievers. Linebrink was headed there too before his breakedown. Thornton has been getting a ton of work since that happened and now Carrasco is getting the Ozzie treatment. Thankfully, he appears to have a rubber arm, so it probably won't bother him much.

oeo
08-26-2008, 03:44 PM
Lots of close games too and Ozzie really only trusts 4 guys at present. I get if you check the number of innings Dotel has thrown this year he will be close to league leader for relievers. Linebrink was headed there too before his breakedown. Thornton has been getting a ton of work since that happened and now Carrasco is getting the Ozzie treatment. Thankfully, he appears to have a rubber arm, so it probably won't bother him much.

Why is it called the "Ozzie treatment?" Every manager in baseball "overworks" their best relievers.

Marqhead
08-26-2008, 03:55 PM
Why is it called the "Ozzie treatment?" Every manager in baseball "overworks" their best relievers.
At least Ozzie doesn't give our young starters the "Dusty Baker treatment."

voodoochile
08-26-2008, 04:12 PM
Why is it called the "Ozzie treatment?" Every manager in baseball "overworks" their best relievers.

Just an expression I tossed out there. Ozzie tends to ride relievers when they are hot. At one point this eason he ran Linebrink out there 5 straight games or something while running Dotel and Bobby out there 4 of those 5.

Right now Carrasco has appeared on 3 consecutive days. He did the same thing last week and actually was in 4 of 5 twice in the last few weeks.

Bob G
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
IMO a healthy and effective Linebrink is critical to our playoff chances and going deep into the post season. I'm not saying we can't make the playoffs without him but it would be a huge boost if he was with the team.