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View Full Version : Jason Stark and the best playoff rotations in Baseball. How are the Sox not on this?


It's Time
08-25-2008, 01:26 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=22114

:scratch:

skottyj242
08-25-2008, 01:47 PM
Did you read the article? It is mentioned that they are four deep.

JermaineDye05
08-25-2008, 01:48 PM
Javy is a game under .500 with a 4.37 ERA.

Mark is only 1 game over .500, he does have a nice ERA though.

Gavin Floyd has the most wins at 13.

The White Sox currently don't have a legit 5th starter. I can understand why we were left off the list. Now if this were 2005 I could see the frustration.

UofCSoxFan
08-25-2008, 01:55 PM
The whole point of the article was who has the best 1-3, not the best staff. In other words, who has the best playoff rotation. The Sox have 4 solid to above average guys but lack a true number 1 starter. In a short playoff series this is a concern. I like our staff, and coupled with our very good offense I think we can win in the playoffs. Still, I think Dempster, Harden, Zanbrano or Webb, Haren, Johnson are easily better than Buerhle, Danks, Floyd/Vazquez.

The Rays were barely mentioned as well, and I think their top 3 are slightly better than ours as well.

eriqjaffe
08-25-2008, 02:04 PM
You get "Buehrle" right, but Harden and Floyd wrong? :scratch:

I kid, I kid...

TDog
08-25-2008, 02:08 PM
Javy is a game under .500 with a 4.37 ERA.

Mark is only 1 game over .500, he does have a nice ERA though.

Gavin Floyd has the most wins at 13.

The White Sox currently don't have a legit 5th starter. I can understand why we were left off the list. Now if this were 2005 I could see the frustration.

Fifth starters are irrelevant when you're discussing posteseaon rotations. Even if you had a quality fifth starter, you wouldn't start him in a non-emergency situation.

Assessing the Sox rotation for the postseason, you look at the veteran starters, Buehrle and Vazquez, who have been inconsistent. Then you look at the young first-round draft picks, Danks and Floyd, who haven't gone deep into their games. A strong playoff rotation has starters that can give you complete games.

But In August 2005, people woundn't have considered the Sox starting rotation postseason strong. Contreras and Hernandez were considered questionable. Buehrle didn't get people excited. Garland seemed hitable. Garcia wasn't the pitcher he used to be. The Sox needed only three starters in the ALDS and didn't need any relievers in the ALCS.

And baseball people were afraid, very afraid, of the greatness of the Cubs rotation in 2003 because it was led by Wood and Prior. Of course, losing Game 5 in Florida wasn't a big deal because Prior and Wood were available for Games 6 and 7 at home. You might remember how that worked out.

People will write stuff. Apparently, they make a living out of it. What they write, though, doesn't mean a thing.

johnnyg83
08-25-2008, 02:11 PM
Harden and Sabathia are amazing pitchers ... but it doesn't seem like anyone broaches the subject of their switch from the AL to the NL as a factor in why they're so dominant lately. Is it just a talent-level thing?

munchman33
08-25-2008, 02:42 PM
Fifth starters are irrelevant when you're discussing posteseaon rotations.



Tell that to El Duque. :cool:

munchman33
08-25-2008, 02:44 PM
Harden and Sabathia are amazing pitchers ... but it doesn't seem like anyone broaches the subject of their switch from the AL to the NL as a factor in why they're so dominant lately. Is it just a talent-level thing?

That's part of it. Losing the DH is also part of it.

However, Harden was just as dominant before he left. And Sabathia, after an absolutely brutal start to the season, was just as lights out before the trade as he was after. So perhaps the difference isn't as great as we all think it is.

DSpivack
08-25-2008, 02:46 PM
Harden and Sabathia are amazing pitchers ... but it doesn't seem like anyone broaches the subject of their switch from the AL to the NL as a factor in why they're so dominant lately. Is it just a talent-level thing?

The argument was best postseason rotations, though. The fact that Harden and Sabathia, not to mention Haren, have moved over to the NL and are dominating would only be a good thing for those teams (at least in the LDS and LCS).

Blueprint1
08-25-2008, 02:53 PM
Yes, because Rich Harden is really known for going deep into games right? :scratch:

DSpivack
08-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Yes, because Rich Harden is really known for going deep into games right? :scratch:

He still dominates the 5-6 innings he pitches.

Blueprint1
08-25-2008, 03:18 PM
He still dominates the 5-6 innings he pitches.

You mean kind of like John Danks does for the 6-7 he pitches?

TDog
08-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Tell that to El Duque. :cool:

In 2005, he was a reliever in the ALDS and the World Series. He didn't start Game 5 of the ALDS when his turn came. Relievers were pretty much irrelevant in the ALCS.

UofCSoxFan
08-25-2008, 04:02 PM
You get "Buehrle" right, but Harden and Floyd wrong? :scratch:

I kid, I kid...

The ol keyboard has been sticking like crazy. I need to proofread better for sure.

the1tab
08-25-2008, 04:14 PM
He still dominates the 5-6 innings he pitches.

Harden has started to crack the baby-ing label people have given him by going 7+ IP and over 95 pitches in each of his past 2 starts. The fact is, he's been electric and is being ignored because Sabathia is being abused by Milwaukee to get them into the dance. One of the posters on the ESPN debate was right when they said Yost is going to run his rented gun into the ground to make his best shot for a ring this year with no concern for the future of Sabathia. Given the Cubs recent past of ruining young arms (Prior), I actually applaud them for having some self control w/ Harden.

That said, I think it comes down to health and bullpen depth as much as it does starting 4 in October, so we'll see if which Carlos Marmol shows up for the Flubs when it counts.

TDog
08-25-2008, 04:28 PM
Harden and Sabathia are amazing pitchers ... but it doesn't seem like anyone broaches the subject of their switch from the AL to the NL as a factor in why they're so dominant lately. Is it just a talent-level thing?

But has Johan Santana been as dominant this year as many expected?

daveeym
08-25-2008, 04:39 PM
Harden has started to crack the baby-ing label people have given him by going 7+ IP and over 95 pitches in each of his past 2 starts. The fact is, he's been electric and is being ignored because Sabathia is being abused by Milwaukee to get them into the dance. One of the posters on the ESPN debate was right when they said Yost is going to run his rented gun into the ground to make his best shot for a ring this year with no concern for the future of Sabathia. Given the Cubs recent past of ruining young arms (Prior), I actually applaud them for having some self control w/ Harden.

That said, I think it comes down to health and bullpen depth as much as it does starting 4 in October, so we'll see if which Carlos Marmol shows up for the Flubs when it counts.You and all my cub fan friends hoping for CC's arm to fall off are insane. They are using him the same as he's always been used. He's actually thrown 10 less pitches in his 10 starts for the brew crew than he threw for his last 10 starts with the Tribe. 1111 v 1121. He's on pace to throw around the same amount of pitches and innings as he did last year. The guy's a horse, plain and simple.

TDog
08-25-2008, 05:02 PM
You and all my cub fan friends hoping for CC's arm to fall off are insane. They are using him the same as he's always been used. He's actually thrown 10 less pitches in his 10 starts for the brew crew than he threw for his last 10 starts with the Tribe. 1111 v 1121. He's on pace to throw around the same amount of pitches and innings as he did last year. The guy's a horse, plain and simple.

People waited for years for Nolan Ryan's arm to fall off, and he threw harder than Sabathia.

Baseball people do question the future health of Sabathia, but their questions don't involve his arm.

DSpivack
08-26-2008, 12:40 AM
But has Johan Santana been as dominant this year as many expected?

He's 12-7 with a 2.64 (2nd lowest ERA of his career), has 153 K's to just 43 BBs, and has a WHIP of 1.14.

What were people expecting?

kittle42
08-26-2008, 12:52 AM
He's 12-7 with a 2.64 (2nd lowest ERA of his career), has 153 K's to just 43 BBs, and has a WHIP of 1.14.

What were people expecting?

He doesn't know how to win, obviously!

BadBobbyJenks
08-26-2008, 01:42 AM
That's part of it. Losing the DH is also part of it.

However, Harden was just as dominant before he left. And Sabathia, after an absolutely brutal start to the season, was just as lights out before the trade as he was after. So perhaps the difference isn't as great as we all think it is.

His strikeout rate has gone up by two ks per game in the NL. Not only does he get the pitcher, but he gets whatever automatic out is hitting in the 8th hole in an NL lineup.

The difference between the two leagues is still large, IMO.

ImaGrinder
08-26-2008, 12:01 PM
His strikeout rate has gone up by two ks per game in the NL. Not only does he get the pitcher, but he gets whatever automatic out is hitting in the 8th hole in an NL lineup.

The difference between the two leagues is still large, IMO.

Definitely. However, I think Harden still sports a season long ERA+ of over 200--I really wish KW could have traded our spare bag of balls for Richie before the fat slob up on the north side got his grimy paws on him.