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BigP50
08-24-2008, 11:49 PM
I was at the game today and when he sent BA at first I was like :o: but then I was like :bandance:. I was a couple rows up from the behind home plate towards the first base side and I had the perfect view. I couldn't believe that he sent him. BA hadn't even touched 3rd when Zobrist had the ball!

CHISOXFAN13
08-25-2008, 12:08 AM
I was at the game today and when he sent BA at first I was like :o: but then I was like :bandance:. I was a couple rows up from the behind home plate towards the first base side and I had the perfect view. I couldn't believe that he sent him. BA hadn't even touched 3rd when Zobrist had the ball!

I don't know why people are stunned by this. There were two outs, and you force a guy like Zobrist, who is a shortstop by trade, to make a great throw with a pretty quick runner coming home.

No-brainer to me.

Hitmen77
08-25-2008, 12:08 AM
Cox gambled on a bad throw/bad catch and he won. His other alternative was to hold BA and take a chance on OC getting a 2-out hit. In that case, if OC makes an out, game over. I don't know what his avg. is with RISP, but even with a decent avg, the odds of another hit were heavily against us.

Gutsy move by Cox and it paid off.

EuroSox35
08-25-2008, 12:11 AM
IIRC the ball got fumbled (and then deflected) by the catcher, otherwise it would've been an easy out. To be honest I'm not a big Cox fan

Domeshot17
08-25-2008, 01:16 AM
I liked the call. My thinking when he sent him was Brian, being a very strong individual, was either going to be safe on a bad throw or he was going to run over the back up catcher and make him hold onto it. Cox knew Zobrist does not have a great arm and put the pressure on them instead of holding him up and putting the pressure back on us to get ANOTHER 2 out hit.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2008, 01:21 AM
That was one of those where I was yelling "no, no, no, no...yes!"

doublem23
08-25-2008, 01:25 AM
Cox is usually so conservative, I can't believe he waved Anderson around. I know Zobrist doesn't have a great arm, but BA wasn't even to 3rd when he picked that ball up.

:dunno:

Can't argue with the result, though.

hawkjt
08-25-2008, 02:00 AM
he just felt in his gut that the Sox were due for a bad throw. Has there been a bad throw vs the sox this year ? I cannot remember any. Cox did great today.

kevingrt
08-25-2008, 10:04 AM
I completely agree with the call of sending BA home. Either BA is sent home or we have OC up, who is in a semi-slump right now with runners on 1st and 3rd or there is a play at the plate. I'd much rather have a play at the plate no matter how close the play is going to be.

pythons007
08-25-2008, 10:18 AM
Cox is usually so conservative, I can't believe he waved Anderson around. I know Zobrist doesn't have a great arm, but BA wasn't even to 3rd when he picked that ball up.

:dunno:

Can't argue with the result, though.

Are we talking about the same 3rd Base coach?:scratch: Cox sends guys like Thome trying to score from first on routine doubles!!! By no means is he conservative!!!!

I am by no means a supporter of Cox. I hope he is replaced by one of our young talented third base coaches in the minors.:D:

Marqhead
08-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Are we talking about the same 3rd Base coach?:scratch: Cox sends guys like Thome trying to score from first on routine doubles!!! By no means is he conservative!!!!

I am by no means a supporter of Cox. I hope he is replaced by one of our young talented third base coaches in the minors.:D:

I wish I knew where it was, but in a different thread someone posted a linked that showed that Cox is currently the best 3rd base coach in the Majors in terms of runners sent vs. runners thrown out.

He is much more conservative than his predessesor Joey "The Windmill" Cora.

Jollyroger2
08-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Are we talking about the same 3rd Base coach?:scratch: Cox sends guys like Thome trying to score from first on routine doubles!!! By no means is he conservative!!!!

I am by no means a supporter of Cox. I hope he is replaced by one of our young talented third base coaches in the minors.:D:

I agree, when I saw him waving him in I was like great, here we go again, another runner out by ten feet. Luckily for us all, the throw was bad.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-25-2008, 10:29 AM
Late in the game, you just have to take a chance. When I saw the play, I knew the LF had the ball as BA got to third, but you have to send him and make them make a play. If you do not send him, you chance leaving the tying run at third with two out in the ninth when the team already came through the hit they needed. In this situation, I think Cox made the right call.

Meixner007
08-25-2008, 10:46 AM
I look at it this way. It didnt' matter who was running, how the ball was played in the outfield, who was throwing it, etc. All that mattered was the fact there were 2 outs and you have a better chance of evening up the game by sending him then having next batter get a 2-out hit. Even a .300 hitter is failing 70% of the time.

all*star quentin
08-25-2008, 10:56 AM
No guts no glory. Well played Cox.

aryzner
08-25-2008, 10:59 AM
I agree, when I saw him waving him in I was like great, here we go again, another runner out by ten feet. Luckily for us all, the throw was bad.
The throw wasn't really that bad. They should have had him, the catcher was more at fault than the left fielder.

doublem23
08-25-2008, 11:00 AM
Are we talking about the same 3rd Base coach?:scratch: Cox sends guys like Thome trying to score from first on routine doubles!!! By no means is he conservative!!!!

Maybe I've been scarred by the memory of Joey Cora at third base, but Cox is very conservative at third base (though, that may be the result of having a team that's generally slower than ****).

Jim Shorts
08-25-2008, 11:38 AM
In that situation, you send the runner everytime. Two dead in the bottom of the ninth. You play for the win at home, play for the tie on the road.

oeo
08-25-2008, 11:40 AM
Are we talking about the same 3rd Base coach?:scratch: Cox sends guys like Thome trying to score from first on routine doubles!!! By no means is he conservative!!!!

What are you coming up with, 4 or 5 examples the entire year? Cox has been very conservative and has done a great job.

And we can thank him for possibly being the best team at getting good jumps and advancing on pitches that get away from the catcher (even our slow guys, too).

UofCSoxFan
08-25-2008, 12:06 PM
Late in the game, you just have to take a chance. When I saw the play, I knew the LF had the ball as BA got to third, but you have to send him and make them make a play. If you do not send him, you chance leaving the tying run at third with two out in the ninth when the team already came through the hit they needed. In this situation, I think Cox made the right call.

Completely agree. In that situation it takes an accurate throw and a catch and a tag to get Anderson out. With 2 outs in the ninth, I rather take my chances that the Rays mess one of those three criteria up than try to get a 2nd two out hit with the pressure on.

You have a fast guy on 2nd and get 1 two out hit...you have to send him.

And yes Cox is a very conservative coach. Too conservative many times in my opinion, even though there are certainly cases that are exceptions (like the Thome play). He holds up more runners on two out hits than any coach I've ever seen (whether they be from 2nd on a single or first on a double in the gap). Throwing guys out at the plate is not easy. It usually requires two long, accurate throws...that is if they even are on time. In fact, I think one of the reasons why we stand so many runners is even when we do get the big two out hit, we often don't score.

Law11
08-25-2008, 12:24 PM
This morning Stone was saying Cox knew the situation and didnt think we'd get another hit off the pitcher so he sent him.

Tragg
08-25-2008, 12:59 PM
Cabrera had, what, a 30% chance of driving that run in? Well, that was probably about the chance of the RAys screwing up that play.

IN the fifth inning, it's a different story - you're not just playing for 1 run then - probably won't send him.
At the end of the game, the third base coach shouldn't be reckless, but should take more chances.

RhubarbStew
08-25-2008, 01:46 PM
I wish I knew where it was, but in a different thread someone posted a linked that showed that Cox is currently the best 3rd base coach in the Majors in terms of runners sent vs. runners thrown out.

He is much more conservative than his predessesor Joey "The Windmill" Cora.

How about "Wave 'Em Wally"?

cbotnyse
08-25-2008, 02:32 PM
I'm all for high risk, high reward plays, but that was not a good call. The play wasnt even close, and Cox is completely relying on a bad throw or dropped ball. 8 or 9 times out of 10 BA is out by a mile. We got lucky.

Meixner007
08-25-2008, 02:48 PM
I'm all for high risk, high reward plays, but that was not a good call. The play wasnt even close, and Cox is completely relying on a bad throw or dropped ball. 8 or 9 times out of 10 BA is out by a mile. We got lucky.

Cabrera is hitting .175 with RISP and 2 out. Seems like a wash to me.

Jim Shorts
08-25-2008, 02:55 PM
I'm all for high risk, high reward plays, but that was not a good call. The play wasnt even close, and Cox is completely relying on a bad throw or dropped ball. 8 or 9 times out of 10 BA is out by a mile. We got lucky.

Perception of the risk:

- Send the runner w/2 out bottom 9.

or

- OC to bat with two outs bottom 9.

cbotnyse
08-25-2008, 03:19 PM
I understand Cabera is hitting for ****, but BA was gone by a mile, it wasnt even close. I just dont think relying on a dropped ball is smart. It was a case of "its better to be lucky than good" situation.