PDA

View Full Version : *Official* In AJ we trust Postgame thread


october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Yes!

Viva Medias B's
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Discuss.

1908<2005
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

soxinem1
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Great game!!

spiffie
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
The geniuses in the gamethread told me that we had been swept. Obviously this thread is wrong, since it says we won.

Frankie5Angels
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Huge win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry about my dark cloud posts guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It"s just my nature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thomas35forever
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
What a game! What a finish! Where's all the naysayers now??!!!!:bandance::bandance::bandance:

WhiteSoxOnly
08-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Sweet Jesus thank you !:D::bandance::cool:

CMPDragRacing
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
walk off single
#1 play on espn plays of the day

=


AL Rookie of the Year

need i say more??????????

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
we had a handfull of MVP's today

Navarro's Talent
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
Oh yeah! Great game!

That's one for the highlight reel. :D:

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
What a smart play by AJ. Two brilliant baserunning plays by AJ.

An ugly win, but we'll take a win. And did you know that Alexei is 14 for 17 with a runner at third and less than two outs?

Now let's see if the Angels can help us out.

btrain929
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
It seems like Alexei hits over .420 with runners in scoring position.





Oh wait.............he really does! ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!

Frankie5Angels
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Now let's sweep those O's!!! :bandance:

kevingrt
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Paul Konerko is my god right now. Thank you 14.

ebit
08-24-2008, 05:22 PM
The Alexei Shift made it's debut tonight. Way to fight to the end!

arKnaD7
08-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Holy **** :gulp:

BringBackBlkJack
08-24-2008, 05:23 PM
Defensive miscues on both sides made this one very interesting. I think the Sox would have won it regardless of the controversial AJ call.

If the Sox D would have backed Buerhle, Sox win in 9.
If Riggans comes up with the throw home on BA, Rays win.

All that matters is what happened, and I'm glad we were able to pull this one out!! :bandance:

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:23 PM
As I said in the GameThread one inning could turn it around. There was some magic in this one.

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:23 PM
We just clicked in the late innings, plain and simple.

Hendu
08-24-2008, 05:23 PM
We needed this, and got the couple of big breaks for a change. The dropped ball on the throw to home in the 9th, then the interference call in the 10th.

:bandance::bandance:

Marqhead
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
This would have been a great win. Its too bad it doesn't count cause the game ended after the top of the seventh inning. Oh well, get em tomorrow Sox.

rustysurf83
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
Hopefully that hit on a national broadcast can give TCM some more momentum towards ROY! Stay 1/2 game out of the WC and 1/2 game out of the Divison at worst. Next weekend vs. the BoSox could be big.

kitekrazy
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
What a smart play by AJ.

It wasn't a smart play.

Stringer
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
AJ heads up with the cream pie attempt

lol

ViPeRx007
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
Chalk up one more team that hates AJ....

lol.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
"Oh here it comes...Ah I'll just wear it."

rustysurf83
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
It wasn't a smart play.

It was a smart recovery to a boneheaded decision. 99% of the players in the league get tagged out without putting up any resistance and sulk back to the dugout with their tail between their legs.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
It wasn't a smart play.
Getting doubled up wasn't but to realize "Hey if I hit the third baseman, I'm safe" was quite smart and tagging up on first was just as smart.

1908<2005
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
It wasn't a smart play.
It was a horrible call but I'll take it (again)

WhiteSoxOnly
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
It wasn't a smart play.

True...i was screaming at him for being so stupid...how he
pulled that **** off i don't know...Eddings needs to do all of
our games.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
It wasn't a smart play.

Running there was NOT a smart play but using ACTING to help you is very Smart.

Soxman219
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
AJ haters are P'OD right now!

What a game!:bandance:

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
http://i38.tinypic.com/ru7l8j.jpg
Crazy... wow! @_@ I'll take it! :bandance:

PaleHoseGeorge
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
Well, that one is worth having a beer to celebrate.

:cool:

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
AJ haters are P'OD right now!

What a game!:bandance:

Hate AJ nation just got a little bigger today.

AzureJazzMan
08-24-2008, 05:27 PM
It wasn't a smart play.

I completely agree! Not cool!

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:27 PM
http://i38.tinypic.com/ru7l8j.jpg
Crazy... wow! @_@ I'll take it! :bandance:
Scary scary picture.

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 05:27 PM
We needed this, and got the couple of big breaks for a change. The dropped ball on the throw to home in the 9th, then the interference call in the 10th.

:bandance::bandance: And Upton's nonchalance on Quentin's flyball which let AJ tag. What the hell was that? If he turned quickly and fired it at least would have been close.

Frankfan4life
08-24-2008, 05:28 PM
AMAZING come back win!!!!! I'm shocked and ecstatic!!!!! My anger and disgust has subsided. I'm finally back to normal.

Please Sox fans at the game, give the Rays fan hell. Thank you!!!

BoysMom3
08-24-2008, 05:28 PM
I <3 AJ. Alexei!!! Man, do I love having him up in a clutch situation - he always pulls through for us!! I felt like we had the game when he was up!!! Yesss!!!!!

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:28 PM
And Upton's nonchalance on Quentin's flyball which let AJ tag. What the hell was that? If he turned quickly and fired it at least would have been close.

Or if he just throws it in right away AJ doesn't even think about it.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:29 PM
TCQ went yard today too.:bandance:

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:29 PM
And Upton's nonchalance on Quentin's flyball which let AJ tag. What the hell was that? If he turned quickly and fired it at least would have been close.
I think that Upton honestly didn't see AJ tagging up. Even if he does turn and fire I still think AJ is safe by a wide margin.

voodoochile
08-24-2008, 05:29 PM
:walnuts
"I'm the most hated Sox player according to Sox fans. I came through today."

:AJ:
"I'm the most hated player according to everyone else. I came through today."

Great win. I am sure there will be plenty of crying about AJ in the press and on TV, but a case can be made that the umps got it right. On the last throw, AJ wants to turn one final time back toward third. He needs to do it quickly, so like everyone who wants to change direction quickly, he torques his upper body quickly which throws his arms out to maintain balance and create a faster turn. He can't do this to his right, because he's almost in the grass already, so he has to turn toward the outfield. The moment he did, he made contact with the Ray's player which threw off his balance and left him stumbling backwards toward third. Since his last movement was toward third, that's the base he gets when the umps rule interference.

Yes, that's half in teal. Yes, I think AJ did a great job initiating contact and acting, but from an umps perspective, AJ has a right to do everything listed above without getting run over by a defender who no longer has the ball.

:winner

:)

:moonwalk:

WhiteSoxBlog
08-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Jeff Cox... he must've had his lucky hat on today

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Or if he just throws it in right away AJ doesn't even think about it.
As soon as that ball was hit over Upton's head AJ was thinking about going to second. He started running as soon as he caught it.

Patrick134
08-24-2008, 05:30 PM
I think that Upton honestly didn't see AJ tagging up. Even if he does turn and fire I still think AJ is safe by a wide margin.


He didn't see it because he was lazy. if he was catching that prepared for aj to be running. AJ wouldnt have went.

BoysMom3
08-24-2008, 05:30 PM
I'm so glad we won this one - WHITESOXPRIDE - I've been taking a ribbing from your relatives all weekend because you know they're watching because of BZ. It's all been in good fun though. :D:

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Don't forget Griffey's double! :bandance:

harwar
08-24-2008, 05:31 PM
who else but AJ could have pulled something like that off .. god i love that guy ................................

Vernam
08-24-2008, 05:31 PM
Just to clarify . . . AJ is brilliant, I'm glad he's on our side, etc. But he made a totally bonehead play to get caught off second. Eddings bailed him out in a major way. Gotta love AJ, but great baserunning would've meant not getting in a rundown there. To AJ's credit, he admitted this just now on the postgame. And then Toby pied him. :D:

And again, to clarify . . . Cox is incompetent. Forget the bad decisions recently to send AJ, Thome, and today Anderson in key situations where they were thrown out by about 20 feet (today's drop by the TB catcher notwithstanding). The guy has no idea where to stand out there! One problem when Thome got thrown out was that Cox waved him on and then was too close to the bag to throw up a late stop sign when sending him was clearly the wrong decision. Today, Cox stood literally at the bag and made contact with Anderson -- who stumbled slightly and could easily have lost his footing completely. Absolutely no excuse for a coach who's too ****ing stupid to stay out of the way of runners. The fact that the Rays' catcher dropped the ball does nothing to change that, or the crazy decision to send Anderson.

Today the gods smiled on us twice. (Three, if you count the hit by Konerko. :cool:) I'll take it, but we'd better start playing some defense.

Vernam

soltrain21
08-24-2008, 05:31 PM
AMAZING come back win!!!!! I'm shocked and ecstatic!!!!! My anger and disgust has subsided. I'm finally back to normal.

Please Sox fans at the game, give the Rays fan hell. Thank you!!!


Since when do Rays' fans deserve that treatment?

cbotnyse
08-24-2008, 05:33 PM
Cox has not been a very good 3 base coach this year. what the hell was he thinking? Anderson is gone 8 times out of 10 on that play. we got lucky as hell today.

kitekrazy
08-24-2008, 05:33 PM
:walnuts
"I'm the most hated Sox player according to Sox fans. I came through today."

:AJ:
"I'm the most hated player according to everyone else. I came through today."

Great win. I am sure there will be plenty of crying about AJ in the press and on TV, but a case can be made that the umps got it right. On the last throw, AJ wants to turn one final time back toward third. He needs to do it quickly, so like everyone who wants to change direction quickly, he torques his upper body quickly which throws his arms out to maintain balance and create a faster turn. He can't do this to his right, because he's almost in the grass already, so he has to turn toward the outfield. The moment he did, he made contact with the Ray's player which threw off his balance and left him stumbling backwards toward third. Since his last movement was toward third, that's the base he gets when the umps rule interference.

Yes, that's half in teal. Yes, I think AJ did a great job initiating contact and acting, but from an umps perspective, AJ has a right to do everything listed above without getting run over by a defender who no longer has the ball.

:winner

:)

:moonwalk:


Oh man that is so hilarious. Amazing how things can happen when you have runners on base and make contact.

Frankie5Angels
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
3-2 Twins, bottom of the 7th, 2 down.

Vernam
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
I think that Upton honestly didn't see AJ tagging up. Even if he does turn and fire I still think AJ is safe by a wide margin.I agree he'd have had little chance of throwing AJ out, but Upton's casual play looked bad, especially so soon after the two recent examples of his loafing on the basepaths.

On another topic, allow me to take this opportunity to say that TCM is unbelievable. I never had a doubt that he was going to get it done.

Vernam

KyWhiSoxFan
08-24-2008, 05:38 PM
The Sox pulled out a game that they could easily have lost today. And lost the game yesterday they should have won. That's baseball.

wassagstdu
08-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Forget the bad decisions recently to send AJ, Thome, and today Anderson in key situations where they were thrown out by about 20 feet (today's drop by the TB catcher notwithstanding). The guy has no idea where to stand out there! One problem when Thome got thrown out was that Cox waved him on and then was too close to the bag to throw up a late stop sign when sending him was clearly the wrong decision. Today, Cox stood literally at the bag and made contact with Anderson -- who stumbled slightly and could easily have lost his footing completely. Absolutely no excuse for a coach who's too ****ing stupid to stay out of the way of runners. The fact that the Rays' catcher dropped the ball does nothing to change that, or the crazy decision to send Anderson.Vernam

I agree. Wherever the line is between gutsy and stupid, sending Anderson was across it. It's one thing to force them to make a play, but something else to hang the game on their making an error.

SoxSpeed22
08-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Cox has not been a very good 3 base coach this year. what the hell was he thinking? Anderson is gone 8 times out of 10 on that play. we got lucky as hell today.I felt that he had to take the chance because 17 out of 20 times, you aren't going to get another hit. That could have been their only shot at scoring a run and it worked out.
After losing the last two games the way they did, it's only natural that they salvage the series the way that they did. Wacky game with a wacky ending.

35th and Shields
08-24-2008, 05:40 PM
It wasn't a smart play.

It was a bad reaction. AJ was probably a little to excited to try and score but made it a great play. To have the presence of mind that he does at all times in a extraordinary talent

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
I'm so glad we won this one - WHITESOXPRIDE - I've been taking a ribbing from your relatives all weekend because you know they're watching because of BZ. It's all been in good fun though. :D:

haha thats funny! Yes im very glad we won today as well. Especially before a roadtrip!

WSox597
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Jason Barlett was throwing his arm up like a chicken to the ump, trying to say AJ threw his arm out on purpose. Looked like he was trying to lay an egg.

I'm not fond of Barlett, he still has the "stink of Twink" on him.

Now, on to Baltimore!!

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
How pissed would we be if that was the Rays that came back and did all that to us?

wilburaga
08-24-2008, 05:44 PM
He didn't see it because he was lazy. if he was catching that prepared for aj to be running. AJ wouldnt have went.

Maybe lazy, definitely stupid. Given his recent track record you'd think he'd go the extra yard not to screw up like that. His teammates have been sticking up for him for the most part, but I'd be surprised if some Ray players/coaches won't be more public in their disapproval. I thought the phantom double incident would be enough to smarten this kid up. But noooooooo.

W

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:45 PM
How pissed would we be if that was the Rays that came back and did all that to us?
very

DeadMoney
08-24-2008, 05:46 PM
I'm not fond of Barlett, he still has the "stink of Twink" on him.


And AJ doesn't? ... that was so Twins-like.

What a (lucky) win ... when a division can be decided by a 1 or 2 game difference, teams need wins like today. Wow!

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:46 PM
And AJ doesn't? ... that was so Twins-like.

What a (lucky) win ... when a division can be decided by a 1 or 2 game difference, teams need wins like today. Wow!

That wasn't twins-like it was 2005 ALCS like.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-24-2008, 05:47 PM
A lot of things happened in this game that made this one very interesting (AJ on the basepaths, BA safe at home, AJ tagging on Quentin's fly to center, the poor fielding by the Sox), but a couple nice positives should not be overlooked.

1. Konerko came through in the clutch with two out in the bottom of the 9th. This should really help him. He's been hitting well lately, and if he can get really hot in September, it would be huge.
2. Griffey's double in the ninth got the tying run into scoring position. KW picked him up for times that like and he came through. He's also settling in now and looks a lot more comfortable at the plate.

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 05:47 PM
Maybe lazy, definitely stupid. Given his recent track record you'd think he'd go the extra yard not to screw up like that. His teammates have been sticking up for him for the most part, but I'd be surprised if some Ray players/coaches won't be more public in their disapproval. I thought the phantom double incident would be enough to smarten this kid up. But noooooooo.

W

You have to pivot quickly and at least make the effort. He could have at least made it close. Bad play in a pennant race in the 10th inning no less.

turners56
08-24-2008, 05:47 PM
HUGE WIN.

Clutch hit by Paulie.
A.J. with 05 ALCS-like antics
Alexei with the game-winning RBI!

Doug Eddings is officially A.J.'s bitch.

Frankfan4life
08-24-2008, 05:48 PM
Since when do Rays' fans deserve that treatment?Did you go to Trop Field when the Sox played their four-game series there this year? If you did, then I don't see why you missed the taunting the Sox fans received after each win. I was also at Saturday's game and I sat behind about a dozen very loud and vocal Rays fans and some cubs fans. I was also out for a smoke when one Rays fan yelled "Sox Suck." Fortunately, he knew a security guard was in spitting distance of him when he did that.

YOU might think Rays fans are angels but I assure you I know better.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 05:48 PM
HUGE WIN.

Clutch hit by Paulie.
A.J. with 05 ALCS-like antics
Alexei with the game-winning RBI!

Doug Eddings is officially A.J.'s bitch.

Clutch hit by Griffey too.:bandance:

Hendu
08-24-2008, 05:48 PM
How pissed would we be if that was the Rays that came back and did all that to us?

Considering the way that we coughed up the previous two games...I don't even want to think about it.

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Texeira with a leadoff double in the eighth . 3-2 Minn.

Soxman219
08-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Jason Barlett was throwing his arm up like a chicken to the ump, trying to say AJ threw his arm out on purpose. Looked like he was trying to lay an egg.

I'm not fond of Barlett, he still has the "stink of Twink" on him.

Now, on to Baltimore!!

Nice!

Anyways, Rays fans are angry about the play but if it was the other way around, they would be smiling too, but they wouldn't admit it.

whitesoxfan
08-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Think it's safe to say that this was the biggest win of the year. Absolutely HUGE.

DeadMoney
08-24-2008, 05:51 PM
That wasn't twins-like it was 2005 ALCS like.

We can just say that it was AJ-like to be fair.

Patrick134
08-24-2008, 05:53 PM
We can just say that it was AJ-like to be fair.


More like an AJ-Eddings special.

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Think it's safe to say that this was the biggest win of the year. Absolutely HUGE.

no, im gonna save my vote for the final game of the 08 World Series. Sox win!

whitesoxfan
08-24-2008, 05:56 PM
no, im gonna save my vote for the final game of the 08 World Series. Sox win!

I probably should've said up to this point :redneck

KyWhiSoxFan
08-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Crede got a hit his first time up today at Charlotte. Oddly, MacDougal started.

WHITE SOX PRIDE!
08-24-2008, 05:58 PM
I probably should've said up to this point :redneck

well in that case yes you are right!

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 06:02 PM
I was going to post a hellacious bitchmoandecry about how

1. golden g-d Buerhle still can't pitch over mistakes for ****
2. Sox still can't score without HR, mostly off of mistakes
3. Dye has really limited range (Balldeli, Upton plays)
4. Quentin's defensive instincts aren't that great
5. Ozzie should have brought Carrasco in the 7th - after Friday, Saturday not pulling starters out before 7th.
6. The Choice: The Sequel can go **** himself
7. KW not going after Rich Harden... why again?
8. 3b coach Cox is either a crazy insane madman or a genius, most likely the former.




But all I can say now is... HAHAHAHA.....MERCY.




:AJ:

"Yeah, now hated more than ever. Bitches, you jellus'?"





.

voodoochile
08-24-2008, 06:06 PM
Please put the twinkie game updates where they belong:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=104994&page=7

SoxandtheCityTee
08-24-2008, 06:07 PM
AJ's "antics" will get all the attention tonight on ESPN etc. but several points mentioned here will be missed. AJ shoudn't have even been on second base in the first place -- that's down to BJ "Nonchalant" Upton. AJ was watching him on the flyout and if Upton gets it and fires it, I doubt AJ tags up and advances.

AJ had a right to turn towards third again and that's what he was doing when he flung his arm out. That's why he was awarded third and not second. After watching several times on slo-mo I can't tell, but it also looks to me as though AJ's left leg might've been brushed by the fielder's right foot (aside from the upper body contact). Either way, the baserunner has the right of way and the fielder has to get out of the way as the runner starts to turn around.

AJ made a mistake on the basebaths and had the presence of mind to recover from it. But, let's face it, the coverage will be reruns of the dropped third stike from the 2005 ALCS, interviews with Josh Paul about what he thinks of today's play, etc.

Who cares? That's a White Sox winner!

Oh, and the latest Cabrera dugout high five, which is the non-five that freezes in mid-air, is pretty funny. Saw it the other day and then today again with TCQ.

btrain929
08-24-2008, 06:08 PM
Now lets take 3 of 4 from Balt.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 06:09 PM
Now lets take 3 of 4 from Balt.

Why not 4 out of 4?

october23sp
08-24-2008, 06:11 PM
First Place.

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 06:12 PM
Oh and...


If I am BJ Upton and Willie Awbar, I am steering clear of Joe Madden. For about a year.


:rolling:

Dan the Man
08-24-2008, 06:12 PM
:twinslose:bandance:

voodoochile
08-24-2008, 06:13 PM
First Place.
:bandance:

ElevenUp
08-24-2008, 06:13 PM
Pulled that win out of the hat. Thankfully the Twinkies lose and we are back in first place. Not the prettiest game, but a win is a win and we needed one bad.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Pulled that win out of the hat. Thankfully the Twinkies lose and we are back in first place. Not the prettiest game, but a win is a win and we needed one bad.

Everytime (twice) we have been on TBS we are in second and end the day in first. Next sunday we play on TBS!:bandance:

MarySwiss
08-24-2008, 06:17 PM
:twinslose:bandance:

Suh--WEET!

Everytime (twice) we have been on TBS we are in second and end the day in first. Next sunday we play on TBS!:bandance:

Well, let's hope that holds true (except for the part where we start the day in second, that is). :cool:

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 06:18 PM
Going into Thursday with the Twinkies at Cal., I did not think I would be happy with a 1/2 game lead by Sunday, but with the way things started out, I am tickled pink. Now I would love to see the Twins play tight in Seattle and drop a couple.

southside rocks
08-24-2008, 06:21 PM
That was one of the most fun games I've attended this year! I love it when they play that clip from Animal House on the Jumbotron before the bottom of the ninth -- "Over? Did you say over?" -- and Paulie coming through, that was so huge, and sheesh, what can you say about AJ that hasn't been said a thousand times already!

The Twins were winning when I left the Cell but they lost? The Angels beat them? Woo-hoo! A perfect day!!!

Frankfan4life
08-24-2008, 06:24 PM
Wow, what a difference a day makes!!! We could have been 1 1/2 or even 2 1/2 games out of first place today. Now, we're a 1/2 game ahead. MERCY!!!!

markopat
08-24-2008, 06:27 PM
Heck yeah! Great win...We'll take em any way we can get em!!

Let's keep it rolling!

Go Go SOX! :bandance:

ArkanSox
08-24-2008, 06:28 PM
Clutch double comebacks, first with the long balls, then with the magic.

As this game progressed, I was thinking how the Rays reminded me of our '05 Sox. It seemed like every mistake we'd make was pounced on and converted by their offense, even with two outs. By the end of the game, the White Sox recalled flashes of their old '05 magic.

I really like this team. Yep, I still believe in magic.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 06:38 PM
We need to build on this..we played bad in 2 games of the series but the Twins didn't really capatalize so we are in the lead again.

DickAllen72
08-24-2008, 06:47 PM
AJ had a right to turn towards third again and that's what he was doing when he flung his arm out. That's why he was awarded third and not second.
That is correct. It's only natural that runners swing their arms out when changing directions. Nobody stops and spins around with their arms close to their sides in that situation. One's arms swing out for balance.

Now I'm sure AJ knew exactly what he was doing. He saw that the defender did not get far enough out of his path. Sure he could have avoided contact by pulling his arms in, but why should he? He swung his arms out like one normally does and made sure he made contact with the fielder who was still in AJ's path to third base.

It's akin to a batter not diving out of the way when a changeup is heading for his shoulder. The only difference is the rules say a batter must at least try to get out of the way, but I don't think a runner is required to step aside or make any attempt to avoid a defender who is in the basepath.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 06:54 PM
That game against Baltimore will be huge because it will be the difference with the half game us and minnesota keep swapping.

StillMissOzzie
08-24-2008, 07:06 PM
Jason Barlett was throwing his arm up like a chicken to the ump, trying to say AJ threw his arm out on purpose. Looked like he was trying to lay an egg.

And rightfully so, IMHO. It looked to me like AJ lifted his left elbow up to cause the contact and then, in an Academy-award winning performance, falls BACKWARD from said contact.

I fully expected the thread to be titled "AJ steals 3rd base for a Sox winner!"

The Sox caught a break on Cox' foolhardy send of Anderson on Konerko's hit to tie it in the 9th, but what a clutch hit it was to give him the chance! Two outs, 3-2 count...high drama!

But let's also credit BJ Upton for dogging it on that catch and lackadaisical throw back in. Sure, almost anybody goes back to tag up on a deep fly ball like that, but credit AJ for recognizing that Upton kinda circled the wagons to get to the ball, did not get into a decent throwing position, and the "no way he's gonna run on MY gun" lazy toss to 2B. He comes up throwing and holds AJ at first, and Dye's grounder to SS is an inning-ending double play, and this game might STILL be on.

SMO
:gulp::bandance:

october23sp
08-24-2008, 07:12 PM
Gotta love everything about that game from the 9th inning on.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
Now I'm sure AJ knew exactly what he was doing. He saw that the defender did not get far enough out of his path.


Oh, I agree. AJ thinks very fast on the field and takes advantage when he can. That's to his credit.

Brian26
08-24-2008, 07:20 PM
That was a phenomenal game to attend. Give Ozzie credit for managing a good game too, which is something you don't see consistently.

In all of my years of attending games, I think that's the first time I've seen in person the outfielder-as the 5th infielder-defense.

Brian26
08-24-2008, 07:22 PM
Is the AJ interference play anywhere online? Looks like Whitesox.com only has video of the scoring plays.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 07:22 PM
Is the AJ interference play anywhere online? Looks like Whitesox.com only has video of the scoring plays.

Check ESPN they might have a game recap and that would probably show the play.

Patrick134
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Is the AJ interference play anywhere online? Looks like Whitesox.com only has video of the scoring plays.


It's on doug eddings' myspace.

soxwon
08-24-2008, 07:26 PM
A cub fan friend of mine called me " Yelling AJ CHEATED AGAIN"

soxinem1
08-24-2008, 07:28 PM
And Upton's nonchalance on Quentin's flyball which let AJ tag. What the hell was that? If he turned quickly and fired it at least would have been close.

Upton must love being in Madden's doghouse. He looked like a total ****ing idiot. He must like sitting on the bench.

TCQ hits into a tailor-made DP if AJ is still on 1B.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 07:29 PM
Upton must love being in Madden's doghouse. He looked like a total ****ing idiot. He must like sitting on the bench.

TCQ hits into a tailor-made DP if AJ is still on 1B.


what?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2008, 07:32 PM
Mod Edit: Please don't repost troll posts from other forums here. <<< ok, my bad... not gana happen again



Haha! xD Look at the date too, that is too funny! :tongue:

MarySwiss
08-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Haha! xD Look at the date too, that is too funny! :tongue:

My post:

Sorry to crash your hate fest, but AJ is actually a very nice guy. I turn out at Spring Training every year, and AJ is one of the friendliest, most approachable guys there.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2008, 07:58 PM
My post:

Sorry to crash your hate fest, but AJ is actually a very nice guy. I turn out at Spring Training every year, and AJ is one of the friendliest, most approachable guys there.Nice post! :P
[enter]
[enter]
[separation]-----------------------------[not regarding you]
AJ hasn't really done anything wrong on the Sox. He got in a fight with the Cubs, but it wasn't his fault and he didn't even want to. :rolleyes:

whitesoxwilkes
08-24-2008, 08:01 PM
That was a phenomenal game to attend. Give Ozzie credit for managing a good game too, which is something you don't see consistently.

In all of my years of attending games, I think that's the first time I've seen in person the outfielder-as the 5th infielder-defense.


It was my second. Also saw it in a game at the Humpdome in 2003 where they brought El Caballo into the infield.

october23sp
08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
This interference thing might be the boost the sox need to keep winning.

MarySwiss
08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
My post:

Sorry to crash your hate fest, but AJ is actually a very nice guy. I turn out at Spring Training every year, and AJ is one of the friendliest, most approachable guys there.

Nice post! :P AJ hasn't really done anything wrong on the Sox. He got in a fight with the Cubs, but it wasn't his fault and he didn't even want to. :rolleyes:

Excuse me, but you might want to read my post again. Nowhere in it did I say that AJ was a saint. But neither is he the reincarnation of Satan that he's sometimes characterized as.

I think that was the point I was making. Apparently, you read a lot of other crap into it.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Excuse me, but you might want to read my post again. Nowhere in it did I say that AJ was a saint. But neither is he the reincarnation of Satan that he's sometimes characterized as.

I think that was the point I was making. Apparently, you read a lot of other crap into it.
No one ever said I had to base by whole post off of yours. Geese, what the heck? I said something that came from my head and you accuse me of saying you said he was a saint. I don’t even know what I said to tick you off, a one lined comment on your post means I read into it so much and got “crap” out of it? The only words out of my post referring to yours was "Nice post." So calm down... Bi-polar much? @_@

Lets just ignore this and say AJ sucks... kind of then. idk what you want.

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 08:20 PM
Just to clarify . . . AJ is brilliant, I'm glad he's on our side, etc. But he made a totally bonehead play to get caught off second. Eddings bailed him out in a major way. Gotta love AJ, but great baserunning would've meant not getting in a rundown there. To AJ's credit, he admitted this just now on the postgame. And then Toby pied him. :D:

And again, to clarify . . . Cox is incompetent. Forget the bad decisions recently to send AJ, Thome, and today Anderson in key situations where they were thrown out by about 20 feet (today's drop by the TB catcher notwithstanding). The guy has no idea where to stand out there! One problem when Thome got thrown out was that Cox waved him on and then was too close to the bag to throw up a late stop sign when sending him was clearly the wrong decision. Today, Cox stood literally at the bag and made contact with Anderson -- who stumbled slightly and could easily have lost his footing completely. Absolutely no excuse for a coach who's too ****ing stupid to stay out of the way of runners. The fact that the Rays' catcher dropped the ball does nothing to change that, or the crazy decision to send Anderson.

Today the gods smiled on us twice. (Three, if you count the hit by Konerko. :cool:) I'll take it, but we'd better start playing some defense.

Vernam


^^^

Rock solid.

oeo
08-24-2008, 08:23 PM
As this game progressed, I was thinking how the Rays reminded me of our '05 Sox. It seemed like every mistake we'd make was pounced on and converted by their offense, even with two outs. By the end of the game, the White Sox recalled flashes of their old '05 magic.

I was thinking more of how everything bounced their way. Finally in the 9th we got something to bounce our way (then again in the 10th). :bandance:

If the Rays starting pitching holds up in the postseason, they're going to be very hard to beat. That is one hell of a bullpen they have this year. One of those years where you have everything go right with nearly every guy like we did in 2005, and like the Red Sox last year. We stole one from a team that doesn't give many away.

TDog
08-24-2008, 08:32 PM
The geniuses in the gamethread told me that we had been swept. Obviously this thread is wrong, since it says we won.


The geniuses in the game thread pretty much told you the Sox could forget about the postseason because they were a horrible team suddenly, that they didn't deserve to win because they were playing crappy defense and couldn't hit, but for occasional home run. There was the assertion that the Rays want to get to the postseason and the Sox don't. The geniuses in the game thread even said the Sox got lucky because they capitalized on crappy play against the team they had been playing crappy against.

The geniuses in the game thread said a lot of things. It is their way. I hang out in the game thread to see what is going on.

Can you imagine how the geniuses in the game thread would have reacted if the roles of today's game were reversed?

A great win today. All Sox wins are great. Add Ramirez to the list of Sox hitters who have ended games with big hits. (I've lost track of them all. There was Crede and Anderson. Pierzynski and Konerko. Quentin and Cabrera. And Swisher. I might be leaving someone out.) Ramirez had tied a game in the ninth when it looked like the Sox could lose a heartbreaker, just as Uribe has. But now Ramirez becomes the second Sox thirdbaseman to end the game with a hit this year.

Some require more effort than others. Relief wins don't mean much, but Jenks earned his win today. Buehrle deserved a lot better. He pitched well enough that the Rays couldn't even take advantage of every opportunity the Sox defense gave them in the inning they tied the game.

I was happy to see Konerko come up with the big hit. If people think he was lucky to get an RBI, it wasn't because Konerko didn't do his job. I was happy to see Griffey do his job in the ninth after some of the geniuses in the game thread were questioning whether he adds anything to the White Sox.

The geniuses in the game thread seem to hate this White Sox team. While the Sox can be frustrating, their my team, and I love them. Tonight I love them more than I did last night, of course, but tonight as last night, I am proud to say I love this team.

I hope the Sox can pick up a quicker extra-inning win tomorrow.

2906
08-24-2008, 08:36 PM
And again, to clarify . . . Cox is incompetent. Forget the bad decisions recently to send AJ, Thome, and today Anderson in key situations where they were thrown out by about 20 feet (today's drop by the TB catcher notwithstanding). The guy has no idea where to stand out there! One problem when Thome got thrown out was that Cox waved him on and then was too close to the bag to throw up a late stop sign when sending him was clearly the wrong decision. Today, Cox stood literally at the bag and made contact with Anderson -- who stumbled slightly and could easily have lost his footing completely. Absolutely no excuse for a coach who's too ****ing stupid to stay out of the way of runners. The fact that the Rays' catcher dropped the ball does nothing to change that, or the crazy decision to send Anderson.

Today the gods smiled on us twice. (Three, if you count the hit by Konerko. :cool:) I'll take it, but we'd better start playing some defense.

Vernam

There's a method to his madness. He stands there so the baserunners don't make a big huge bus turn around third base. He is trying to train them to cut the bag hard at third, thereby saving a few steps on the way to home plate.

They worked on it hard in spring training. It's not the easiest to execute but good baserunners do it with ease. A name from the past who was great at it was Dick Allen.

That's why Cox stands where he does.

Frontman
08-24-2008, 08:40 PM
Mistakes were made, but the Sox didn't give up. This was a redemption game; as Paulie definately came through when the Sox needed him.

And only someone with some wrestling talent could of sold that "hit" on AJ. (For those who aren't up on wrestling jargon, "selling" a move is the act of making it looked like it hurt when it didn't.)

I feel a TON better about the Sox after watching this game. Sure, they made mistakes, sure it shouldn't of gone down like it did; but this was one of those games the Sox should of lost but stole back.

And to whomever who starts the complaining about AJ and how he "cheats." That ain't cheating. That's using your head in a game. He could of easily been thrown out.

GlassSox
08-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Yea, AJ.....anyway you look at it, AJ going to 2nd, screwing up and recovering, winding up on 3rd, is great. Go AJ and Alexei hitting against a shift, wow.

Vernam
08-24-2008, 08:56 PM
There's a method to his madness. He stands there so the baserunners don't make a big huge bus turn around third base. He is trying to train them to cut the bag hard at third, thereby saving a few steps on the way to home plate.I'm not buying it, sorry. You're saying he gets in their way on purpose? :rolleyes: Discouraging wide turns is desirable -- and I do think Cox deserves credit for improved baserunning by some of our guys -- but there's no way that crowding the runner is a good thing for the third-base coach to do. Risking physical contact is nothing but bad, just as bad as his decisions to send guys when their only chance to score is for the other team to blow an easy play.

The only remotely plausible excuse for him to be out of position is that MLB is mandating that coaches stay out of the line of batted balls after Mike Coolbaugh's death last year. A run is nothing compared to a man's life, but after the ball is in play other coaches seem capable of getting in the proper position, which is farther down the line toward home plate. That gives him a better view of both the runner and the fielder, and again, it lets the coach put on the brakes late if he realizes the runner is going to get thrown out. Which any competent coach would've done today with Anderson. Sending him was an egregious decision, just as much as when Thome got thrown out by 20 feet against Detroit.

Vernam

delben91
08-24-2008, 09:03 PM
Winning sucks!! I hate winning so much that I'm going to bitch about every aspect of how we won!!

****ing Sox winning the game!!! Screw them!! This is unacceptable!!

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 09:10 PM
Buehrle deserved a lot better.

No, he didn't. Buehrle "deserved" exactly what he got - 5 runs and Sox trailing when he left the mound. The score doesn't lie, doesn't play favorites and doesn't make excuses... remember?

The offense, Carrasco, Jenks, on the other hand, got the job done..... while having to work uphill for most of the game thanks to Buerhle's habitual inability to pitch over mistakes (this season).

2906
08-24-2008, 09:20 PM
I'm not buying it, sorry. You're saying he gets in their way on purpose? :rolleyes: Discouraging wide turns is desirable -- and I do think Cox deserves credit for improved baserunning by some of our guys -- but there's no way that crowding the runner is a good thing for the third-base coach to do. Risking physical contact is nothing but bad, just as bad as his decisions to send guys when their only chance to score is for the other team to blow an easy play.

The only remotely plausible excuse for him to be out of position is that MLB is mandating that coaches stay out of the line of batted balls after Mike Coolbaugh's death last year. A run is nothing compared to a man's life, but after the ball is in play other coaches seem capable of getting in the proper position, which is farther down the line toward home plate. Again, that lets the coach put on the brakes late if he realizes the runner is going to get thrown out. Which any competent coach would've done today with Anderson. Sending him was an egregious decision, just as much as when Thome got thrown out by 20 feet against Detroit.

Vernam

Fair enough. Whether you buy or don't buy doesn't matter to me, it appears your mind is made up that you're right anyway.

I'm just telling you what I heard in spring training. And, this is a guy who's been around baseball his whole life so I'll side with him that he knows what he's doing. That's not to say he can't make mistakes, everyone does. But that's the rationale. As you may recall, they were working a lot on taking the extra base, effective base running, etc. Part of that is learning how to cut 3rd base on the way home and not making a big huge bus turn. Lastly, he's not in the way if they run the bases the right way.

slavko
08-24-2008, 09:25 PM
Or if he just throws it in right away AJ doesn't even think about it.

The runner who is on 1B, on a fly ball to LF or CF, tags up and starts to run. If he sees the throw is on target, he goes back. You can't do it on a fly to RF because of the side view the runner has of the throw. It's happened for us before in 2008. But Upton forgot the game situation and made it easy for AJ. That's baseball.

Same as a runner on 2B doesn't attempt to advance on a ground ball hit between himself and 3B. That's baseball, too.

turners56
08-24-2008, 09:30 PM
No, he didn't. Buehrle "deserved" exactly what he got - 5 runs and Sox trailing when he left the mound. The score doesn't lie, doesn't play favorites and doesn't make excuses... remember?

The offense, Carrasco, Jenks, on the other hand, got the job done..... while having to work uphill for most of the game thanks to Buerhle's habitual inability to pitch over mistakes (this season).

Another one of my pet peeves...Never blame the defender, it's always the pitcher's fault that he can't get out of trouble.

Problem is, he wouldn't of been in any trouble at all had the defender made the play.

I guess unearned runs are totally stupid. After all, who cares about ERA?

PeteWard
08-24-2008, 09:37 PM
Another one of my pet peeves...Never blame the defender, it's always the pitcher's fault that he can't get out of trouble.

Problem is, he wouldn't of been in any trouble at all had the defender made the play.

I guess unearned runs are totally stupid. After all, who cares about ERA?

You mean you don't know Marc's R.A.? It's a much more important stat then the silly E.R.A.

TheCommander
08-24-2008, 09:37 PM
No, he didn't. Buehrle "deserved" exactly what he got - 5 runs and Sox trailing when he left the mound. The score doesn't lie, doesn't play favorites and doesn't make excuses... remember?

The offense, Carrasco, Jenks, on the other hand, got the job done..... while having to work uphill for most of the game thanks to Buerhle's habitual inability to pitch over mistakes (this season).

YEAH! Buehrle deserved the defensive mishaps and the 3 unearned runs! It's all his fault! He and he alone should shoulder the responsibility! :rolleyes:

swish
08-24-2008, 09:39 PM
The best part of that whole play, is the our favorite umpire, Doug Eddings, was the guy to screw up the call...

jabrch
08-24-2008, 09:51 PM
And Upton's nonchalance on Quentin's flyball which let AJ tag. What the hell was that? If he turned quickly and fired it at least would have been close.

Upton may well be the laziest player in the game today.

LongLiveFisk
08-24-2008, 09:57 PM
Damn, I'm sorry I missed this one today. It was nice to come here to a winning thread! Way to go, Sox.....keep it going.....please. :praying::smile:

cbone
08-24-2008, 09:57 PM
Went to the game today and I have to say the stands were pretty full till the end. You could guess that the AJ play was some kind of interference but you really didn't know the details. A huge win for the team and for fan morale. A few observations, since the "wave cam" replaced the "kiss cam", many fans take this as their cue to do the wave to get on camera. Ignoring seems to be the best policy.

Also after reading the posts here talking about the naysayers on the gameday thread I decided to punish myself by having a peek. :o: How do people survive like that? Either way a great win and a great day at the park!! :bandance::gulp:

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 09:59 PM
YEAH! Buehrle deserved the defensive mishaps and the 3 unearned runs! It's all his fault! He and he alone should shoulder the responsibility! :rolleyes:



How dare Danks, Jenks, Carrasco, etc work their ass off trying to pitch over bad defense and other unfavorable occurences with little to no damage on the scoreboard.


No, they should all do what the peeved Gavin Floyd did against the Pirates: give up a bunch of XBH, 6 runs in the inning; that oughta show those treacherous bastards in the field, damn them all & their kin to Hell!

jabrch
08-24-2008, 10:07 PM
just as bad as his decisions to send guys when their only chance to score is for the other team to blow an easy play.


I really don't have a problem, in some scenarios, with forcing a team to make a perfect play from the OF to the plate.

oeo
08-24-2008, 10:09 PM
Upton may well be the laziest player in the game today.

Oh, please. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you know so much about the guy.

TDog
08-24-2008, 10:09 PM
No, he didn't. Buehrle "deserved" exactly what he got - 5 runs and Sox trailing when he left the mound. The score doesn't lie, doesn't play favorites and doesn't make excuses... remember?

The offense, Carrasco, Jenks, on the other hand, got the job done..... while having to work uphill for most of the game thanks to Buerhle's habitual inability to pitch over mistakes (this season).

Buehrle has done a much better job at pitching over mistakes than he did early in the season when he gave up two first-inning unearned runs in a 2-0 loss. The first inning two-run homer reminded me of that game. It wouldn't surprise me if Buehrle still leads the league in unearned runs allowed (I know he did in May, and I was flamed in these parts for being critical of that fact in May). Buehrle pitched over quite a bit when the Rays tied the game in the sixth. Even the two earned runs he gave up on the day were tainted. And the double that gave the Rays the lead in the seventh looked like it shoud have been caught.

Among the highlights, there was a nifty doubleplay started by Ramirez, but for some reason the Sox defense didn't show up for most of the game today. Fortunately, the hitting and pitching were barely good enough to win and the defnese wasn't quite bad enough to lose. It helped that the Rays defense failed at a key point.

JB98
08-24-2008, 10:13 PM
The Sox improve to 13-5 with me in attendance this season. I don't know how AJ does it. Somehow, some way, the disputed calls come out in his favor. Nice clutch hitting from Konerko and Ramirez.

Overall, the Sox were able to outhit their poor defense today. I hope the guys can tidy up the defense on the upcoming road trip.

jabrch
08-24-2008, 10:16 PM
Oh, please. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you know so much about the guy.

Huh?

He has been benched multiple times by his manager for not running out plays. How many other guys can say that?

Are you saying you think Upton hustles?

I don't need to "know so much about the guy" to call him a lazy player. Find guys who dog plays more than he does...it's a short list.

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 10:29 PM
Among the highlights, there was a nifty doubleplay started by Ramirez, but for some reason the Sox defense didn't show up for most of the game today..

Yes, Ramirez and Cabrera certainly saved Buerhle's bacon. Between that and Iwamura's rope right at Quentin in the 7th.... Buerhle's lucky he didn't give up 7 today. That's the flip-side.

IMO, Buerhle should have been pulled with a lead after 6. We all excused Ozzie for not lifting Vazquez who had all his pitches working and was barely at 80 pitches on Saturday....... but Friday with Danks & again today with Buerhle, Ozzie's stubborn insistence of stretching his starters is hurting both the team AND the starters (stats, further fatigues arm).

And before someone goes all "... you want the starters removed with our horrible pen??!!" on me........ No, Carrasco, Thornton and Jenks aren't Mariano Rivera or 2003 version of Eric Gagne...... But when they start their own inning from scratch, their numbers easily beat anything Buerhle/Danks/Vazquez can do 3rd or 4th time through the opposing line-up.

Contrast it with Madden pulling Sonnanstein today with barely 80 pitches as soon as he put the runner on base and the quality of his pitches declined ever so noticeably...

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 10:31 PM
. It wouldn't surprise me if Buehrle still leads the league in unearned runs allowed (I know he did in May, and I was flamed in these parts for being critical of that fact in May).

Gavin Floyd is actually the league leader, but Mark is still up there.

TDog
08-24-2008, 10:38 PM
...

Contrast it with Madden pulling Sonnanstein today with barely 80 pitches as soon as he put the runner on base and the quality of his pitches declined ever so noticeably...

That may have cost the Rays the game today. The Rays' closer is on the DL and the Ray's bullpen didn't have many scoreless innings today.

Vienna
08-24-2008, 10:45 PM
The best part of that whole play, is the our favorite umpire, Doug Eddings, was the guy to screw up the call...

Man, I had to shake my head on that one. As soon as A.J. was awarded third I looked at my daughter and said "Eddings." She didn't care she was waiting for the game to end to watch "Little Bear."

Great win. Much needed win. Somehow takes the sting out of the weekend. I couldn't even post Friday or Saturday I was so irritated with Oz and the pen. I hope this turns it around...for good.

Vernam
08-24-2008, 10:45 PM
Lastly, he's not in the way if they run the bases the right way.:bs: Watch today's replay. He clips Anderson less than three feet from the bag. The only way Anderson could have avoided him was to break his stride, which Cox very nearly did for him.

Sorry for the low-res image, but there's no logical explanation for Cox to be this close to the bag or the player. You can see he had to pull his right leg out of the way at the last instant to avoid tripping (and possibly injuring) Anderson. Inexcusable.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2795167656_785cf03355_o.jpg

And then there's the small fact that the ball is already out of the outfielder's hand when Anderson touches the base. Cox needs an intervention.

Vernam

Adele_H
08-24-2008, 10:46 PM
That may have cost the Rays the game today. .

It absolutely did no such thing. If anything, it arguably saved the game from being blown wide open by the Sox, who were close to really getting to Sonnanstein when Madden removed him. I remember lamenting that it's too bad he is being taken out as soon as Sox baserunner reached 1st base cuz the Sox will get him this inning...

Wheeler would have been their 9th inning guy regardless. And he didn't pitch that badly, truth be told. Just got beat by Junior, Kong.

#1swisher
08-24-2008, 10:51 PM
I tip my hat to Ozzie today:tongue:

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-24-2008, 10:51 PM
My guy goes on to give the Sox a friggin miracle of a win...Bobby wasn't too bad either! :tongue:

I fully expected to get swept especially with the PISS POOR DEFENSE we showed these past three days but we stuck with the best today and really showed our colors...OCTOBER HERE WE COME!!!!!

Vernam
08-24-2008, 11:03 PM
I really don't have a problem, in some scenarios, with forcing a team to make a perfect play from the OF to the plate.I absolutely agree, jabrch, but that's not the case here. It didn't require anything close to a perfect throw or catch.

I'm not one of the second guessers who think no one should ever get thrown out stealing or trying to take an extra base. In fact, if you don't get thrown out occasionally -- as you say, by forcing the defense to make a tough play -- then you're not doing your job because you're leaving runs on the table. Apart from his injuries, IMO, Pods became useless because he got afraid of being picked off and thrown out. You can't play that way, and I think having a third-base coach who never risks an out would be just as bad as the one we have right now.

OK, having made clear that I think the guy is a menace to our playoff hopes, I'm done for now with the Cox bashing. It was part of a great, bizarre win.

Vernam

october23sp
08-24-2008, 11:40 PM
I absolutely agree, jabrch, but that's not the case here. It didn't require anything close to a perfect throw or catch.

I'm not one of the second guessers who think no one should ever get thrown out stealing or trying to take an extra base. In fact, if you don't get thrown out occasionally -- as you say, by forcing the defense to make a tough play -- then you're not doing your job because you're leaving runs on the table. Apart from his injuries, IMO, Pods became useless because he got afraid of being picked off and thrown out. You can't play that way, and I think having a third-base coach who never risks an out would be just as bad as the one we have right now.

OK, having made clear that I think the guy is a menace to our playoff hopes, I'm done for now with the Cox bashing. It was part of a great, bizarre win.

Vernam

I didn't think you bashed him too much.

mnrph
08-25-2008, 02:47 AM
I was at the game today and could not believe the decision Madden made to walk Thome and put in that defense for TCM. Am I wrong or is TCM the last player on the Sox that you would defend that way in that situation?

Boondock Saint
08-25-2008, 03:03 AM
I was at the game today and could not believe the decision Madden made to walk Thome and put in that defense for TCM. Am I wrong or is TCM the last player on the Sox that you would defend that way in that situation?

The Rays were playing for a play at the plate or a double play. They knew that any ball hit deep would score the winning run, so they walked Thome. They then put in the extra infielder to better play a ground ball, and moved in the outfield to better defend against a bloop hit. Nothing wrong with the strategy, except for the fact that it didn't work.

2906
08-25-2008, 05:44 AM
:bs: Watch today's replay. He clips Anderson less than three feet from the bag. The only way Anderson could have avoided him was to break his stride, which Cox very nearly did for him.

Sorry for the low-res image, but there's no logical explanation for Cox to be this close to the bag or the player. You can see he had to pull his right leg out of the way at the last instant to avoid tripping (and possibly injuring) Anderson. Inexcusable.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2795167656_785cf03355_o.jpg

And then there's the small fact that the ball is already out of the outfielder's hand when Anderson touches the base. Cox needs an intervention.

Vernam

You can post all the images you want. It doesn't matter to me, nor does your BS flag.

I told you why he does it, there's a reason for it, and I'm quite certain he knows one hell of a lot more baseball than you do.

PeteWard
08-25-2008, 06:36 AM
You can post all the images you want. It doesn't matter to me, nor does your BS flag.

I told you why he does it, there's a reason for it, and I'm quite certain he knows one hell of a lot more baseball than you do.

He is obviously way, way too close to the base.

oeo
08-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Huh?

He has been benched multiple times by his manager for not running out plays. How many other guys can say that?

Are you saying you think Upton hustles?

I don't need to "know so much about the guy" to call him a lazy player. Find guys who dog plays more than he does...it's a short list.

What I'm saying is you're judging a player off of a couple stories you heard in the news. It wasn't a smart play yesterday, but I don't think he was trying to be lazy...the Rays just don't develop smart ballplayers. Look at Carl Crawford for an example of that.

This is like an outsider saying this and that about our guys. Yes, you do need to see a guy play more than once or twice before you call him the laziest player in baseball. I mean come on.

Maddon even said after he benched him last week that he hoped it didn't give people the idea that he was lazy, and here you go...a fan hears about the story and just calls him the laziest player in baseball for the heck of it.

2906
08-25-2008, 09:28 AM
He is obviously way, way too close to the base.

Do you see his legs moving in the picture? That's because he was in motion to get in position to give some sort of instruction to the runner rounding 1B if needed.

Everyone and everything is open to criticism, that's understood. It's a message board. No problem there. But people here thinking they know how to do the 3B coaches job, well, that's off the wall. Not a specific comment on your post, just a comment in general.

It's Dankerific
08-25-2008, 09:33 AM
Do you see his legs moving in the picture? That's because he was in motion to get in position to give some sort of instruction to the runner rounding 1B if needed.

Everyone and everything is open to criticism, that's understood. It's a message board. No problem there. But people here thinking they know how to do the 3B coaches job, well, that's off the wall. Not a specific comment on your post, just a comment in general.

In the balance of making sure the guy at 1b gets some help, and not tripping the guy trying to score the tying run, I think you need to go with staying the **** out of the way of the runner trying to score.

BeviBall!
08-25-2008, 09:35 AM
I just heard on the live sportscenter that Thome tied Jaime Foxx for career HRs. Congrats Jim! Now you have something in common with me.

Also, ESPN still loathes anything AJ does and allows their morning anchors to give their personal opinions on the matter.

October26
08-25-2008, 10:50 AM
I was afraid to go into the Gamethread on Sunday after the Sox lost two to the Rays on Fri and Sat. The Sox did not play well yesterday, but the important thing is that they did win the game. It is all about winning now - we know we will have the Twins on our heels so gotta get those wins.

I am still smiling about the AJ play this morning. What a coincidence that Doug Eddings was involved again! The ending of yesterday's game brought back sweet memories of the 2005 playoffs. Very happy about this White Sox win! :bandance:

2906
08-25-2008, 11:28 AM
In the balance of making sure the guy at 1b gets some help, and not tripping the guy trying to score the tying run, I think you need to go with staying the **** out of the way of the runner trying to score.

Well of course, that's obvious. I don't recall Cox tripping any runners going around 3rd this year. People are complaining about an "almost". There are dozens of "almosts" in just about every game. Almost a strike, almost a home run, almost a double play and so on.

But again, everything is open to criticism, no problem with that.

I merely pointed out why he does what he does because I specifically heard about it in spring.

Railsplitter
08-25-2008, 11:32 AM
Take out the Birds next:bandance:

TDog
08-25-2008, 01:39 PM
It absolutely did no such thing. If anything, it arguably saved the game from being blown wide open by the Sox, who were close to really getting to Sonnanstein when Madden removed him. I remember lamenting that it's too bad he is being taken out as soon as Sox baserunner reached 1st base cuz the Sox will get him this inning...

Wheeler would have been their 9th inning guy regardless. And he didn't pitch that badly, truth be told. Just got beat by Junior, Kong.

You could be right. But if you are, it is ironic the Rays manager lost the game because he made the right move (ultimately right "moves" because he insisted on sticking to the closer mentality when his closer is on the disabled list, which some people would consider the right move).

More likely is that both managers made all the right moves and can't be given credit or blame for what the players did to win or lose the game. That is usually the case.

I can't heap heavy praise on a manager going to his bullpen, though, when his bullpen lost the lead and then lost the game. But I'm not the one to extravagantly praise or credit a baseball manager for wins and losses.

Adele_H
08-25-2008, 01:52 PM
You could be right. But if you are, it is ironic the Rays manager lost the game because he made the right move

I don't necessarily think he lost the game because of the right move - just as Ozzie didn't win the game because of the wrong move (not putting Carrasco in to start the 7th, made all the worse because he committed same gaffe on Friday with running-on-empty Danks, but I digress). Correlation, causation and all that cake.

There is no absolute truth here, granted. But I think details matter: Sonnanstein was losing it in terms of pitch quality, IMO and he would end up facing the line-up for the 3rd time had he stayed in. Wheeler - not to mention the preceeding two relievers that shut the Sox down cold - made good-but-not-great pitches that Sox hitters simply put quality swings on. Gave up a run, it happens. That's baseball.

Adele_H
08-25-2008, 02:11 PM
Yes, Ramirez and Cabrera certainly saved Buerhle's bacon. Between that and Iwamura's rope right at Quentin in the 7th.... Buerhle's lucky he didn't give up 7 today. That's the flip-side.

IMO, Buerhle should have been pulled with a lead after 6. We all excused Ozzie for not lifting Vazquez who had all his pitches working and was barely at 80 pitches on Saturday....... but Friday with Danks & again today with Buerhle, Ozzie's stubborn insistence of stretching his starters is hurting both the team AND the starters (stats, further fatigues arm).

And before someone goes all "... you want the starters removed with our horrible pen??!!" on me........ No, Carrasco, Thornton and Jenks aren't Mariano Rivera or 2003 version of Eric Gagne...... But when they start their own inning from scratch, their numbers easily beat anything Buerhle/Danks/Vazquez can do 3rd or 4th time through the opposing line-up.

Contrast it with Madden pulling Sonnanstein today with barely 80 pitches as soon as he put the runner on base and the quality of his pitches declined ever so noticeably...

I'd like to emphasize the bolded part above because I see the kneejerk-ism "stretch the starters to the limit, that's what those damned inning-eaters are there for, man" thrown around way too much.

Between Carrasco, Thornton and Jenks, for instance, their combined Run Average is in the 2.00s. Whereas Buerhle and even Danks give up close to 5.00 Runs a game 3rd time through the opposing line-up, which is usually in the 5-7 inning range. Factor in the long-term ramifications of consistently putting extra burden on the starters' high-mileage arms... It's just not worth it.

Yes, you can overuse a reliever, too. But the difference is, the Carrascos, Polittes, Hermansons, Cottses, Martes of this world are replaceable - ride 'em hard during the pennant race & put 'em away wet.......... But the health & freshness of Buerhle and Danks' arms, for instance, are critically important, both in the short- and long-term.

So unless you have a really awful pen.... or the starter is working on a gem.... or else just has a history of overwhelming success against upcoming batter(s)........ When in doubt, pull the starter. Especially if there is noticeable decline in the quality of the starter's pitches and/or command.

If only to give the opposing batters some change of pace or a different look (such as Chad Bradford), if nothing else.

.

TDog
08-25-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't necessarily think he lost the game because of the right move - just as Ozzie didn't win the game because of the wrong move (not putting Carrasco in to start the 7th, made all the worse because he committed same gaffe on Friday with running-on-empty Danks, but I digress). Correlation, causation and all that cake.

There is no absolute truth here, granted. But I think details matter: Sonnanstein was losing it in terms of pitch quality, IMO and he would end up facing the line-up for the 3rd time had he stayed in. Wheeler - not to mention the preceeding two relievers that shut the Sox down cold - made good-but-not-great pitches that Sox hitters simply put quality swings on. Gave up a run, it happens. That's baseball.

And there is no way of telling what the Rays would have done if Carrasco had started the inning. Starting Carrasco in the seventh would have required another pitcher in the eighth before Jenks in the ninth. (He had pitched Saturday and the Sox were looking at using bullpen Monday in Baltimore, regardless of the quality of Richards' start.) There is no telling what that pitcher would have done.

Adele_H
08-25-2008, 02:25 PM
There is no telling what that pitcher would have done.

Yes and no.

Nothing's for sure, so I guess we should never guess/double-guess anything. Why even have message boards, then.

It can be reasonably speculated that Carrasco who pitched out of not one but two "high-stress" situations this homestand, and generally has been lights out as of late... would have probably done at least as well with BASES EMPTY AND SOX LEADING - ie with an actual margin-for-error.

Jenks ended up pitching 2 innings anyway. He was off for so long, his arm was strong enough for 2 innings. But if no Jenks for 8th... then Thornton for the 8th. I know he's been taking a pounding around here lately, and some of it is definately deserved, but the truth of the matter is, when Thornton is starting his own inning, pitching out of the wind-up, HIS NUMBERS ARE CONSISTENTLY WELL-ABOVE AVERAGE IF NOT VERY GOOD.

TDog
08-25-2008, 04:24 PM
Yes and no.

Nothing's for sure, so I guess we should never guess/double-guess anything. Why even have message boards, then.

It can be reasonably speculated that Carrasco who pitched out of not one but two "high-stress" situations this homestand, and generally has been lights out as of late... would have probably done at least as well with BASES EMPTY AND SOX LEADING - ie with an actual margin-for-error.

Jenks ended up pitching 2 innings anyway. He was off for so long, his arm was strong enough for 2 innings. But if no Jenks for 8th... then Thornton for the 8th. I know he's been taking a pounding around here lately, and some of it is definately deserved, but the truth of the matter is, when Thornton is starting his own inning, pitching out of the wind-up, HIS NUMBERS ARE CONSISTENTLY WELL-ABOVE AVERAGE IF NOT VERY GOOD.

Thornton, of course, had pitched in the two previous games. The fact that he didn't pitch Saturday as he did Friday was a major reason the White Sox lost on Saturday. I don't know who the Sox would have had in the bullpen warming up if Carrasco had come in to pitch the seventh.

Early in the season, Guillen had a quicker hook, and the bullpen was lights out. They still pitched fewer innings than other teams in baseball because the starters were pitching better than the starters on just about any other team. As the starters began to wear down, the bullpen became overused, compounded by Linebrink and Jenks going down. It went from a lights-out bullpen to one fans dreaded seeing come into the game.

If you're playing straight percentage baseball, you only use a pitcher one time through the order. Earnshaw Cook noted this in his 1964 book Percentage Baseball, during the pre-DH days when he would have had the pitcher being pinch-hit for when his turn came. Statistical analysis notwithstanding, baseball is a human sport. Some pitchers are suited for getting hitters out two, three or even four times better than others, and some in this day and age are good for just an inning on their best days. The outs that your starter gets are outs that relievers don't have to, and the wear and tear on relievers coming into a game can be greater than starters staying in a game. You manage for the season, balancing the bullpen pitchers between needed work and needed rest. You try to stretch out your starters so they can go seven, eight or nine innings to save the bullpen so it's there when you need it

Buehrle needed to go seven Sunday. But for a misplayed fly ball with two outs, he would have. Danks needed to go seven Friday. After using Thornton to get out of trouble Friday, and the trouble that ensued, Vazquez needed to go eight on Saturday as he had gone eight the previous Sunday. Floyd isn't going as deep into his games as he had been earlier in the season, and Richard's (not unlike Danks' best) requires bullpen help.

The other factor to consider is that whenever you bring a new pitcher into a game, you don't know what he has. It is probably better (though not substantially) to bring in a new pitcher to pitch the seven inning, but the chances of that pitcher being effective is diminished if you always bring in a new pitcher to pitch the seventh inning. I don't expect Richard to go seven, but Buehrle, Danks and Floyd need to start going at least seven.

soxinem1
08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
what?

If Upton is playing attentively, no way AJ tags on that. His loafiness enabled AJ to move into second base.

Konerko05
08-25-2008, 05:43 PM
If Upton is playing attentively, no way AJ tags on that. His loafiness enabled AJ to move into second base.

He was probably talking about the fact that you said TCQ hits into a double play if AJ is still on first. TCQ is the man who hit the fly ball to Upton with AJ on first.

Frontman
08-25-2008, 06:19 PM
He was probably talking about the fact that you said TCQ hits into a double play if AJ is still on first. TCQ is the man who hit the fly ball to Upton with AJ on first.

Wouldn't of Dye hit into a double play grounder if AJ was on first?

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter because the Sox won, the Rays lost, the Twins lost, and if the Twins could find a way to lose in Seattle with the Sox picking up two wins in Baltimore?

All things would be golden.

Konerko05
08-25-2008, 07:28 PM
Wouldn't of Dye hit into a double play grounder if AJ was on first?


Yeah, that is what I was pointing out.