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WhiteSoxAl
08-21-2008, 04:19 AM
I was at the Mariner game yesterday and when I saw that Ozzie rested Thome and Dye, my first thoughts were that this will compromise the offense somewhat. So what happens. They go out and score 15 runs adding 4 more roundtrippers to their league leading total. Their pitching carried them in the 1st half while the offense sputtered, then their pitching took a break after the all star break . Now they are hitting on both cylinders including improved defense at 3rd without Crede's league leading errors there. Keep this up for the next 6 weeks and their will be post season play on the South Side come October!!

doublem23
08-21-2008, 04:45 AM
This is an excellent 1st post.

:welcome:

Save McCuddy's
08-21-2008, 11:20 AM
This is an excellent 1st post.

:welcome:

Ditto. Ozzie can irritate from time to time with lineup shuffling, but I love that he has the luxury to get Dye's legs some rest. Hope he can do it on turf a time or two before the playoffs.

voodoochile
08-21-2008, 11:23 AM
I couldn't have said it better. Welcome aboard.

:)

Rocky Soprano
08-21-2008, 11:26 AM
Do you all really believe that Uribe is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Crede?

turners56
08-21-2008, 11:32 AM
Just a note, the White Sox are now 3rd in baseball in runs scored. We surpassed the Red Sox yesterday. We're also approaching a .270 team average.

oeo
08-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Ditto. Ozzie can irritate from time to time with lineup shuffling, but I love that he has the luxury to get Dye's legs some rest. Hope he can do it on turf a time or two before the playoffs.

Ozzie hasn't shuffled the lineup really at all this year. And I think he's doing an excellent job giving playing time to all of Griffey, Thome, Dye, Konerko, and Swisher. All five of those guys for four positions, there's going to have to be a little bit of movement.

jabrch
08-21-2008, 11:42 AM
Ditto. Ozzie can irritate from time to time with lineup shuffling, but I love that he has the luxury to get Dye's legs some rest. Hope he can do it on turf a time or two before the playoffs.

I don't think we have any games on turf until those three games at Minny in late Sept - and if those games matter, NOBODY gets rest then.

roylestillman
08-21-2008, 11:44 AM
I'm not good at digging through the archives, but I think it would be pretty funny to post a link to some of the threads from around the time of that Twins/ Blue Jays road trip in early May that basically had us on the ledge about "the worst offense in the Majors."

Now we speak of depth.

Hitmen77
08-21-2008, 12:38 PM
The big test for the Sox starts tomorrow vs. the 1st place Rays. Question: Have the Sox for the last 9 games merely been feasting on bad teams, or have they really hit their stride (both offense and pitching)?

Perhaps it's a little of both. I don't think it's just that we're ripping bad teams because we were struggling in our 9 games vs. KC between July 8 and Aug 3. Seattle is bad, but they at least put up a fight vs. the Twins in the Twinkiedome while we blasted them 33-8. But now it's time to see if the Sox can keep it up vs. the big boys as we head into a stretch where we play the Rays, Angels, and Red Sox.

The Sox offense, once firing on all cylinders, can be awesome. Remember, we were clinging to first with a good portion of or lineup hitting around .210 for the longest time. Now Thome, Konerko, and Swisher are on a roll. Add that to what Dye, Quentin, and Ramirez have been doing...plus AJ and OC doing well and that's quite a lineup. Oh yeah, Uribe's been on a roll too. Seems like he always hits well late in the season, so September should suit him just fine. Griffey may be in his twilight, but I still think he'll be a good RBI guy for us and it's huge to have him around to keep the rest of our veterans fresh by giving them days off without having to go with scrubs. Anderson has been hitting the ball well too. Great to have that from our late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner guy.

....just keep it going against the good teams, guys.

southside rocks
08-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Do you all really believe that Uribe is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Crede?

I think that depends on the condition of Joe Crede's back. :?:

TheCommander
08-21-2008, 12:45 PM
Do you all really believe that Uribe is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Crede?

This year,yes.

Rocky Soprano
08-21-2008, 01:06 PM
This year,yes.

And we are basing this simply on errors?

lukeman89
08-21-2008, 01:24 PM
And we are basing this simply on errors?


nope. we're basing it off of fielding %, range factor, and zone rating

Juan Uribe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4657), CWS .935 3.72 .852
Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4250), CWS .928 2.85 .812



juan's range factor kicks the ass out of crede's, and if you plug him into all of the regular third basemen in the ML, his range factor is the tops by a LOT, and his ZR is 2nd behind rolen

Rocky Soprano
08-21-2008, 01:38 PM
nope. we're basing it off of fielding %, range factor, and zone rating

Juan Uribe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4657), CWS .935 3.72 .852
Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4250), CWS .928 2.85 .812



juan's range factor kicks the ass out of crede's, and if you plug him into all of the regular third basemen in the ML, his range factor is the tops by a LOT, and his ZR is 2nd behind rolen

And were basing this only after a couple of weeks?
I don't think Uribe has played at 3rd long enough for anyone to say he is better than Crede.

pmck003
08-21-2008, 01:42 PM
The big test for the Sox starts tomorrow vs. the 1st place Rays. Question: Have the Sox for the last 9 games merely been feasting on bad teams, or have they really hit their stride (both offense and pitching)?

Perhaps it's a little of both. I don't think it's just that we're ripping bad teams because we were struggling in our 9 games vs. KC between July 8 and Aug 3. Seattle is bad, but they at least put up a fight vs. the Twins in the Twinkiedome while we blasted them 33-8. But now it's time to see if the Sox can keep it up vs. the big boys as we head into a stretch where we play the Rays, Angels, and Red Sox.

The Sox offense, once firing on all cylinders, can be awesome. Remember, we were clinging to first with a good portion of or lineup hitting around .210 for the longest time. Now Thome, Konerko, and Swisher are on a roll. Add that to what Dye, Quentin, and Ramirez have been doing...plus AJ and OC doing well and that's quite a lineup. Oh yeah, Uribe's been on a roll too. Seems like he always hits well late in the season, so September should suit him just fine. Griffey may be in his twilight, but I still think he'll be a good RBI guy for us and it's huge to have him around to keep the rest of our veterans fresh by giving them days off without having to go with scrubs. Anderson has been hitting the ball well too. Great to have that from our late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner guy.

....just keep it going against the good teams, guys.

ditto:thumbsup:

lukeman89
08-21-2008, 02:24 PM
And were basing this only after a couple of weeks?
I don't think Uribe has played at 3rd long enough for anyone to say he is better than Crede.


but you look at the numbers he has put up so far defensively, and you cant say that he isnt as good, because he has showed nothing to support that.


he has, however, showed us many reasons to believe he is as good if not better defensively than a fully healhty crede

Rocky Soprano
08-21-2008, 02:41 PM
but you look at the numbers he has put up so far defensively, and you cant say that he isnt as good, because he has showed nothing to support that.


he has, however, showed us many reasons to believe he is as good if not better defensively than a fully healhty crede

He has been good and I'm glad the Sox kept him.
Better defensively than a full healthy Crede? See now that is just beyond nuts.

I guess because Crede has been hurt and hasn't been as great as he usually is we forget all he has done.

hawkjt
08-21-2008, 03:04 PM
I ,too, am reserving judgement on the offense until I see what they do vs the Rays,Boston and Angels the next two weeks. They will be seeing playoff-quality pitching vs those teams and these blowouts will be rare.
There have been a few cheap homers this last few weeks with the ball carrying so well at Soxpark. But I am estatic with the current production.

Daver
08-21-2008, 03:36 PM
nope. we're basing it off of fielding %, range factor, and zone rating

Juan Uribe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4657), CWS .935 3.72 .852
Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4250), CWS .928 2.85 .812



juan's range factor kicks the ass out of crede's, and if you plug him into all of the regular third basemen in the ML, his range factor is the tops by a LOT, and his ZR is 2nd behind rolen

You do know that those numbers are basically meaningless right?

Lillian
08-21-2008, 03:44 PM
Uribe's defense has been very good at 3B, but I still haven't seen him make one of those patented Crede dives to either side, much less popping up to throw out the hitter.

oeo
08-21-2008, 03:47 PM
Uribe's defense has been very good at 3B, but I still haven't seen him make one of those patented Crede dives to either side, much less popping up to throw out the hitter.

How about the newly patented throw to the fans?

No one can argue that Crede's defense was downright terrible this year. You can tell me that errors mean nothing, but if you watched him this year, you know he was bad. He hurt us just as much as he helped us, and that's not a good thing.

lukeman89
08-21-2008, 04:00 PM
You do know that those numbers are basically meaningless right?


i was under the impression that stats like that were much better descriptors of the defensive capability than any other defense statistics. what exactly do you use to determine a players defensive prowess

Daver
08-21-2008, 04:02 PM
i was under the impression that stats like that were much better descriptors of the defensive capability than any other defense statistics. what exactly do you use to determine a players defensive prowess

My eyes. They work just fine.

There is no such thing as an accurate defensive stat.

doublem23
08-21-2008, 04:06 PM
i was under the impression that stats like that were much better descriptors of the defensive capability than any other defense statistics. what exactly do you use to determine a players defensive prowess

For many reasons, most notably that unlike pitching and hitting (which are essentially 1-on-1 scenarios), defense is completely team-oriented and basically completely subjective. ZR is a nice stat, and it's far better than fielding percentage, but there's no way to truly numerically calculate a player's defensive prowess.

Foulke You
08-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Ozzie hasn't shuffled the lineup really at all this year. And I think he's doing an excellent job giving playing time to all of Griffey, Thome, Dye, Konerko, and Swisher. All five of those guys for four positions, there's going to have to be a little bit of movement.
I agree. I actually think the Sox are fortunate to have two "A" lineups. One vs. lefties and one vs. righties. The A lineup for righties has Griffey in CF, Swisher at 1B, Thome at DH and the A lineup for lefties has Swish in CF, Thome DH, and Konerko at 1B. That's a lot of offensive thunder that you can switch around.

wsgdf
08-21-2008, 04:10 PM
For many reasons, most notably that unlike pitching and hitting (which are essentially 1-on-1 scenarios), defense is completely team-oriented and basically completely subjective. ZR is a nice stat, and it's far better than fielding percentage, but there's no way to truly numerically calculate a player's defensive prowess.


Of course, we're talking about two guys on the same team, with the same home field and the same pitching staff.

As good as it gets for comparisons sake.

turners56
08-21-2008, 04:15 PM
nope. we're basing it off of fielding %, range factor, and zone rating

Juan Uribe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4657), CWS .935 3.72 .852
Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4250), CWS .928 2.85 .812



juan's range factor kicks the ass out of crede's, and if you plug him into all of the regular third basemen in the ML, his range factor is the tops by a LOT, and his ZR is 2nd behind rolen

Range Factor is a terrible stat, when used alone.

turners56
08-21-2008, 04:16 PM
My eyes. They work just fine.

There is no such thing as an accurate defensive stat.

I agree.

Gavin
08-21-2008, 04:34 PM
If two people want to use Zone Factor or range or whatever and they both agree on it I don't see the point in arguing your personal opinion on the merit of a stat.

doublem23
08-21-2008, 04:59 PM
If two people want to use Zone Factor or range or whatever and they both agree on it I don't see the point in arguing your personal opinion on the merit of a stat.

If I base my opinion of how good a hitter someone is based on what color bat they use, I would assume a few people who take issue with my methodology.