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cws05champ
08-20-2008, 08:26 PM
I know that it is a very small sample size in AB's but BA is hitting close to .300 since the AS break with a couple HR's, and seems much more comfortable and confident at the plate. I'm not a huge FOBA around here, but I think(Hope) he has turned the corner. I'm not saying he should be starting 4 X week because he shouldn't at this point. But he should get the starts over Wise IMO.

oeo
08-20-2008, 09:17 PM
I know that it is a very small sample size in AB's but BA is hitting close to .300 since the AS break with a couple HR's, and seems much more comfortable and confident at the plate. I'm not a huge FOBA around here, but I think(Hope) he has turned the corner. I'm not saying he should be starting 4 X week because he shouldn't at this point. But he should get the starts over Wise IMO.

Well, Wise is likely headed to the DL, so you'll get your wish there. It's not like Wise was getting starts, anyway. There's just not a lot of playing time for those two since Griffey got here.

Noneck
08-20-2008, 09:34 PM
But he should get the starts over Wise IMO.
Wise should get no starts, ever.

kevingrt
08-20-2008, 09:35 PM
Wise should get no starts, ever.

Agree more relief pitching. Maybe even a third catcher in Cole Armstrong.

jabrch
08-20-2008, 09:42 PM
Brian? Helloooooooooo

WhiteSoxBlog
08-20-2008, 09:43 PM
The more starts Wise has (Today would have been his 2nd or 3rd since Griffey joined the team), the more I feel like he's the equivalent for BA that Griffey is for Konerko; "lighting a fire under his butt." If not that, short of a personal problem w BA, I have no clue as to why he would get picked over BA to start.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 10:23 PM
Figured out what, where he should sit on the bench every day when he finishes dressing and warming up? I hope so...:tongue:

Just messing. He's been performing well in limited playing time. I doubt he's on the team next year anyway. I expect Owens to be handed the utility OF job right out of ST.

Glad BA's able to contribute, we need every bat and glove we can get our hands on.

Craig Grebeck
08-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Figured out what, where he should sit on the bench every day when he finishes dressing and warming up? I hope so...:tongue:

Just messing. He's been performing well in limited playing time. I doubt he's on the team next year anyway. I expect Owens to be handed the utility OF job right out of ST.

Glad BA's able to contribute, we need every bat and glove we can get our hands on.
I'll go on record as saying Owens will not be anywhere near Chicago next season.

Daver
08-20-2008, 10:32 PM
Just messing. He's been performing well in limited playing time. I doubt he's on the team next year anyway. I expect Owens to be handed the utility OF job right out of ST.


Based on what?

WhiteSoxOnly
08-20-2008, 10:37 PM
I'll go on record as saying Owens will not be anywhere near Chicago next season.


I don't know Grebeck...he's cheap,he can run,and i can totally see him being
on the team next year instead of Wise.

slavko
08-20-2008, 10:39 PM
Based on what?

Potential leadoff skills, baserunning. We have learned that the fielding skills of outfielders, esp. CF, mean nothing to the Sox management. No, I'm not kidding.

Craig Grebeck
08-20-2008, 10:45 PM
Owens is seriously terrible at baseball. Really. 28 year olds rarely get better, and especially those with a skill-set as bad as Owens'.

Daver
08-20-2008, 10:50 PM
Potential leadoff skills, baserunning. We have learned that the fielding skills of outfielders, esp. CF, mean nothing to the Sox management. No, I'm not kidding.

He can't hit for average, in a bandbox, he doesn't walk, he has 25 steals in 37 attempts, he's 28 years old, and he plays outfield like my ass chews gum.

So basically, he has no real skills.

Rocky Soprano
08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
He can't hit for average, in a bandbox, he doesn't walk, he has 25 steals in 37 attempts, he's 28 years old, and he plays outfield like my ass chews gum.

So basically, he has no real skills.

Yeah but he's not Anderson which is enough for them.

RockJock07
08-20-2008, 11:06 PM
He can't hit for average, in a bandbox, he doesn't walk, he has 25 steals in 37 attempts, he's 28 years old, and he plays outfield like my ass chews gum.

So basically, he has no real skills.

In addition, Owens can't seem to stay healthy. Brian may get another shot at CF next year but I think he's shown he is a very productive in late game situations. I like how Ozzie will start Swisher or Griffey in CF and then in late/close game situations BA comes in and plays a steller CF.

As far as next year goes, I'd like to see Brian play winter ball and then we'll about the starting CF job.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:08 PM
Based on what?

The reasonable success he had last year, the fact that when healthy he's hit well in AAA again this season and the fact he's cheap. I expect a very similar team next year with the main question marks being SS and 3B going into the off season.

With Swish on the team, Owens doesn't need to be pure utility OF. He can play CF (as well as the Sox expect - not as well as you expect) and LF and that's all the Sox need from a backup guy because Swish can play all three.

I'm assuming Thome makes his PA's and gets his option picked up and that there just won't be a ton of free money to spend especially needing to fill two IF slots - still hoping they re-sign Cabrera to a 3 year deal, but I doubt it happens.

I can't see the Sox spending a lot of money on CF next year because it will simply take AB away from Swish in the long run. If Thome doesn't make his PA then maybe Dye goes to DH and that frees up some OF AB, but otherwise, the OF is set except for the 4th/5th guys...

hawkjt
08-20-2008, 11:13 PM
I really think that Brian is ready to take over in center fulltime next year.
Swish can also flip between cf and first next year if PK is still here or Thome is here...I think BA is going to be a decent hitter...kind of like how it just kicked in for rowand after I thought he plateaued.

Not sure why Wise gets no respect around here...hitting .297 off the bench, fast and decent cf. I hope he is back soon.

Let owens come to spring training and win the a job. If not, back to the minors. I think he still has value. Speed kills.

Daver
08-20-2008, 11:18 PM
The reasonable success he had last year, the fact that when healthy he's hit well in AAA again this season and the fact he's cheap. I expect a very similar team next year with the main question marks being SS and 3B going into the off season.

With Swish on the team, Owens doesn't need to be pure utility OF. He can play CF (as well as the Sox expect - not as well as you expect) and LF and that's all the Sox need from a backup guy because Swish can play all three.

I'm assuming Thome makes his PA's and gets his option picked up and that there just won't be a ton of free money to spend especially needing to fill two IF slots - still hoping they re-sign Cabrera to a 3 year deal, but I doubt it happens.

I can't see the Sox spending a lot of money on CF next year because it will simply take AB away from Swish in the long run. If Thome doesn't make his PA then maybe Dye goes to DH and that frees up some OF AB, but otherwise, the OF is set except for the 4th/5th guys...

Brian doesn't make more than Owens, can play all outfield positions, can run the bases well, and can hit for power, and you would take Jerry Owens over him?


You really make me wonder what you base your logic on sometimes.

Craig Grebeck
08-20-2008, 11:19 PM
Owens really has no value. None. At all. Whatsoever.

He can't even steal bases anymore and is slugging .315.

Adele_H
08-20-2008, 11:20 PM
Enough of this hand-wringing and never-ending "debate". Kenny, just stick Anderson in CF please and live or die with your drafting, for once.

Although if Brian learned to hit a (good) breaking ball, he'd be making Kenny's/Ozzie's decision a lot easier.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:26 PM
Brian doesn't make more than Owens, can play all outfield positions, can run the bases well, and can hit for power, and you would take Jerry Owens over him?


You really make me wonder what you base your logic on sometimes.

Next year BA is a FA. I don't know how much he will earn in a contract. I'll take him back cheap, no problems, but I'm not just talking about my desires. I'm trying to figure out what the Sox will actually consider doing.

I don't think they'll put a lot of money into the OF slots next year with Swish, Quentin and Dye all back and signed already and needing money in the IF and potentially a 5 starter too boot.

They are going to eat Contreras $12M for most of the season and everyone else save Crede and Cabrera is back. They need to find the money to fill SS and 3B slots unless they want to go super cheap and take a risk on Getz and Uribe, but if the choice is Getz and Uribe and another high end CF or Cabrera/veteran starting 3B/equivalent of one of them and Owens backing up the OF, I'll go with the latter.

The Sox don't NEED to spend money on the OF next year. If BA is wlling to come back cheap, sure, I'll take him, but I expect some team to throw at least a few million at him and I'd rather spend the money elsewhere because I don't think he'll start here.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Enough of this hand-wringing and never-ending "debate". Kenny, just stick Anderson in CF please and live or die with your drafting, for once.

Although if Brian learned to hit a (good) breaking ball, he'd be making Kenny's/Ozzie's decision a lot easier.

That's a damned big if...

Daver
08-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Next year BA is a FA.

No he isn't.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:33 PM
No he isn't.

My bad... No worries, he won't get squat in arbitration...

However, do you think the Sox will sign him?

Oh and I agree BA hits for better power than Owens, heck, I hit for better power than Owens, but he managed to hit .267/.324 in 350 AB last year with a 80% SB percentage.

He's showing that ability again as he finally gets healthy in AAA. His average is up to .282. His OBP is pushing .350 and he has stolen 26 bases. Yes, his CS% has gone up, but he's been struggling with injuries all year, so that's not that suprising.

He's not an amazing offensive talent, but he'd be adequate as a 9th place hitter at the least.

Craig Grebeck
08-20-2008, 11:34 PM
My bad... No worries, he won't get squat in arbitration...

However, do you think the Sox will sign him?

Oh and I agree BA hits for better power than Owens, heck, I hit for better power than Owens, but he managed to hit .267/.324 in 350 AB last year with a 80% SB percentage.

He's showing that ability again as he finally gets healthy in AAA. His average is up to .282. His OBP is pushing .350 and he has stolen 26 bases. Yes, his CS% has gone up, but he's been struggling with injuries all year, so that's not that suprising.

He's not an amazing offensive talent, but he'd be adequate as a 9th place hitter at the least.
No. He's a terrible hitter at any place in the organization.

nodiggity59
08-20-2008, 11:35 PM
BA is only in his 3rd year. We should have him through 2011. I'd love KW to give BA another shot in CF. However, I'd love for him to do a TCQ type buy low on another young CF: Melky Cabrera. Or someone similar to BA's ilk. A guy who looked to be able to contribute in CF at one point, but has stuggled.

Give us two young, all around athletes (decent power, decent glove, decent arm, decent speed) and let it work itself out.

EDIT: I realize Cabrera has nowhere near TCQ's potential. I was referring to the buy low aspect of the deal.

RockJock07
08-20-2008, 11:35 PM
BA should be arbitration allegeable, right? I could be wrong, but I thought he was under the Sox control for another couple of seasons.

You guys beat me too it, I took to long in looking that up

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:37 PM
BA should be arbitration allegeable, right? I could be wrong, but I thought he was under the Sox control for another couple of seasons.

Yeah, I goofed. I think I was just assuming they might let him walk seeing as they don't care for the way he plays the game much and got it turned around in my head. From the Sox perspective he seems to be a 4th OF at best. Do they offer him arbitration or just cut their losses and look for someone else.

Daver
08-20-2008, 11:43 PM
My bad... No worries, he won't get squat in arbitration...

However, do you think the Sox will sign him?



They have to. Take a good hard squint at what he has done this season in very limited playing time, and a good chunk of that playing time coming against conditions that he generally struggles against.

He is the starting CFer on a lot of MLB teams right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded in the offseason.

RockJock07
08-20-2008, 11:44 PM
Yeah, I goofed. I think I was just assuming they might let him walk seeing as they don't care for the way he plays the game much and got it turned around in my head. From the Sox perspective he seems to be a 4th OF at best. Do they offer him arbitration or just cut their losses and look for someone else.

No worries, I believe that KW knows his players better than anyone. If he wanted to get rid of BA he would have. I think you make him play winter ball and see what happens after that. I like him coming off the bench. I think Owens could be used as trade bait or just left in AAA as insurance.

voodoochile
08-20-2008, 11:49 PM
They have to. Take a good hard squint at what he has done this season in very limited playing time, and a good chunk of that playing time coming against conditions that he generally struggles against.

He is the starting CFer on a lot of MLB teams right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded in the offseason.

And again that wouldn't shock me either. I still think that probably opens up a slot for Owens on next years team.

I don't think Owens is an everyday player for the Sox and I don't want him to be, but my point is the Sox seem to like him and he does have some offensive skills, just a different subset than BA...

Noneck
08-21-2008, 12:02 AM
I think you make him play winter ball and see what happens after that.
Winter ball? If its that mess in Venezuela, no way.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 12:05 AM
That's a damned big if...

Kenny's world, and indeed many World Series quests in general, were replete with IF's from the get-go.

IF Joe Crede's career isn't essentially over
IF Alexei can handle the enormously difficult transition, cultural and otherwise
IF Quentin is finally healthy and his head is in the right place
IF John Danks can improve his change-up and develop a cutter
IF Gavin Gloyd can grow a testicle or two
IF Matt Thornton can harness his fastball.
IF Jim Thome's battered body holds up through a full grueling season
IF Jermaine Dye learns to hit with "short" arms as he approaches his mid-30s
IF a 53 year old Jose Contreras can avoid being a veritable pinata for 2nd straight year
IF DJ Carasco can pitch like he's never pitched before in his life
And so forth.


You simply cannot have Swisher, let alone the brittle statue Griffey in CF on daily basis. There are simply too many subtle and not so subtle moments in games where they HURT your team defensively. Sox are not always going to be winning games 15-3, you know. The pitchers need some confidence that a deep FB or a frozen rope will be caught.

The sooner Anderson is in CF, the higher the likelyhood that his adjustment goes smoothly.

Craig Grebeck
08-21-2008, 12:10 AM
And again that wouldn't shock me either. I still think that probably opens up a slot for Owens on next years team.

I don't think Owens is an everyday player for the Sox and I don't want him to be, but my point is the Sox seem to like him and he does have some offensive skills, just a different subset than BA...
He doesn't have ANY skills. Seriously.

Craig Grebeck
08-21-2008, 12:14 AM
Kenny's world, and indeed many World Series quests in general, are replete with IF's.

IF Alexei can handle the enormously difficult transition, cultural and otherwise
IF Quentin is finally healthy and his head is in the right place
IF John Danks can improve his change-up and develop a cutter
IF Gavin Gloyd can grow a testicle or two
IF Matt Thornton can harness his fastball.
IF Jim Thome's battered body holds up through a full grueling season
IF Jermaine Dye learns to hit with "short" arms as he approaches his mid-30s
IF a 53 year old Jose Contreras can avoid being a veritable pinata for 2nd straight year
IF DJ Carasco can pitch like he's never pitched before in his life
And so forth.


You simply cannot have Swisher, let alone the brittle statue Griffey in CF on daily basis. There are simply too many subtle and not so subtle moments in games where they HURT your team defensively. Sox are not always going to be winning games 15-3, you know. The pitchers need some confidence that a deep FB or a frozen rope will be caught.

The sooner Anderson is in CF, the higher the likelyhood that his adjustment goes smoothly.
Such bull****. Swisher has not been bad at all. Slightly below average at the worst, average to slightly above average at best.

chaerulez
08-21-2008, 12:17 AM
BA had just over a year of MLB service time before this season. He shouldn't be eligible for arbitration until after three years of service. Regardless, the Sox have him for the cheap four more years after 2008. Owens is not good. At least BA has exceptional defense. Owens might get a little more hits than BA but he has no power. He's a one tool player, and while he did steal a lot of bases unless he has a 90 percent success rate there is really no reason for him to be on a MLB roster.

kittle42
08-21-2008, 01:24 AM
I really think that Brian is ready to take over in center fulltime next year.


Not sure why Wise gets no respect around here...hitting .297 off the bench, fast and decent cf. I hope he is back soon.

Your second statement completely invalidates your first.

kittle42
08-21-2008, 01:25 AM
The sooner Anderson is in CF, the higher the likelyhood that his adjustment goes smoothly.

His adjustment to another team next season will go quite smoothly regardless.

Konerko05
08-21-2008, 01:37 AM
His adjustment to another team next season will go quite smoothly regardless.

I don't know. There is a chance Williams is still holding on to BA for another shot at center field next year. I mean he is still with the organization, so that has to mean something.

For all the people who said BA blew his shot at a starting role, I think he is earning another shot with his play this season. He really has stepped up all aspects of his game. I hope Guillen is actually paying attention. His recent comments ("Brian? Hellooo.") and his love for Wise tell me differently.

It's Dankerific
08-21-2008, 02:07 AM
I mentioned it in yesterday's game thread, but Hawk and DJ were talking about BA being too good to be a 4th OF and Hawk said he'd be starting somewhere and DJ said how about here. Then you got the tribune beat writer talking about BA too.

Basically, we know that the Sox start their propaganda through Hawk on TV. This basically leads me to believe that either BA is going to get a shot at CF next year or they're starting to build his value up by talking high on him to get him traded in the offseason. Obviously, I want to see BA playing for the Sox, but I don't think that BA will be riding pine next year. Ozzie and his "Brian? Hello...." quote is just scary. pure scary.

I REALLY don't want to watch BA blossom on a different team... if he needs to be traded, please send him to the NL...

The Dude
08-21-2008, 02:25 AM
He can't hit for average, in a bandbox, he doesn't walk, he has 25 steals in 37 attempts, he's 28 years old, and he plays outfield like my ass chews gum.

So basically, he has no real skills.

Agreed. I bet there are still those that wish TCQ wasn't so good so that Owens had a chance to lead off. :o:

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 02:34 AM
His adjustment to another team next season will go quite smoothly regardless.

What's the rush to get rid of arguably the only non-overrated defensive Sox player (Rowand, Crede, Cabrera, Dye, Quentin, I am looking at you) who's dirt cheap & still young enough where he can make reasonable improvement at the plate?

Sure, I'd move Anderson if it gets me a better fit like Chone Figgins (actual live lead-off man)............................. or Adrian Beltre, a superbly talented if underachieving slugger with a good glove and deceptive speed, looking to end the Safeco nightmare - with a contract year coming up..............

........Or, if this organization starts thinking a little bigger, as a throw-in in a Roy Halladay or Ichiro blockbuster.....

I am not a fan of Greg Walker, but if he claims that Brian Anderson is on the verge of finally developing a polished approach/swing, I am willing to give Bri-Bri one more chance at starting.

Big Gus
08-21-2008, 06:45 AM
I agree. He is who I want to see in CF in the late innings, too.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-21-2008, 07:25 AM
BA will be the starting CF for the Sox next year.

In the off season, I think the only big moves will be decisions involving SS and 3B, plus I believe they'll trade Konerko. With Thome's option vesting, he will be back as the DH, so that eliminates the DH option for Konerko (unless he's platooned).

That means Swisher moves to 1B, BA to CF, and the question is does Ramirez move to SS? If he does, Getz or a free agent will take over 2B and a free agent or someone through trade will take 3B.

BA is cheap and still learning. Why would you trade him? It's not like he's preventing the growth or development of another player, or he's too expensive to carry. You keep him and see where he leads you.

The Sox have already invested a lot in him. I think by his attitude this year, he's showing he has matured a lot. Not everyone can move into the majors seamlessly and succeed. Some players take time. I think BA falls into that category.

oeo
08-21-2008, 07:30 AM
He is the starting CFer on a lot of MLB teams right now, I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded in the offseason.

Name them. He would have already been traded by most MLB teams.

I can't believe this debate is starting up again. Anderson will be exposed of his weaknesses if he starts everyday. This is just like the great Ross Gload debate. Succeeding in a limited role does not mean you've 'figured it out' or that you can do it everyday. Maybe he's succeeding there because he's, uh, a fourth outfielder?

Craig Grebeck
08-21-2008, 08:06 AM
I love all of these hypotheticals that end in us trading Konerko.

oeo
08-21-2008, 08:10 AM
BA will be the starting CF for the Sox next year.

In the off season, I think the only big moves will be decisions involving SS and 3B, plus I believe they'll trade Konerko. With Thome's option vesting, he will be back as the DH, so that eliminates the DH option for Konerko (unless he's platooned).

That means Swisher moves to 1B, BA to CF, and the question is does Ramirez move to SS? If he does, Getz or a free agent will take over 2B and a free agent or someone through trade will take 3B.

BA is cheap and still learning. Why would you trade him? It's not like he's preventing the growth or development of another player, or he's too expensive to carry. You keep him and see where he leads you.

The Sox have already invested a lot in him. I think by his attitude this year, he's showing he has matured a lot. Not everyone can move into the majors seamlessly and succeed. Some players take time. I think BA falls into that category.

What's funny is you've pretty much thrown in the towel on Fields (he's "regressed"), who has shown more major league ability in less time up here...yet Anderson has figured it out because of a hit here and there in limited time. Most of the time when he's in for an AB, it's late in a game when we're already leading.

doublem23
08-21-2008, 08:12 AM
I can't believe this debate is starting up again. Anderson will be exposed of his weaknesses if he starts everyday. This is just like the great Ross Gload debate. Succeeding in a limited role does not mean you've 'figured it out' or that you can do it everyday. Maybe he's succeeding there because he's, uh, a fourth outfielder?

Logical analysis in a Brian Anderson thread is not allowed 'round these parts.

palehozenychicty
08-21-2008, 08:12 AM
Figured out what, where he should sit on the bench every day when he finishes dressing and warming up? I hope so...:tongue:

Just messing. He's been performing well in limited playing time. I doubt he's on the team next year anyway. I expect Owens to be handed the utility OF job right out of ST.

Glad BA's able to contribute, we need every bat and glove we can get our hands on.

:o: Really? Where does he play?

KyWhiSoxFan
08-21-2008, 09:30 AM
What's funny is you've pretty much thrown in the towel on Fields (he's "regressed"), who has shown more major league ability in less time up here...yet Anderson has figured it out because of a hit here and there in limited time. Most of the time when he's in for an AB, it's late in a game when we're already leading.

The discussion was about BA, not Fields, but what I'm saying is BA will be in CF next year, for a couple of reasons: Economics and options.

If Thome's contract vests, little comes off the books for next year, save for Crede, Uribe, and Cabrera, unless they can trade Konerko. They'll have Contrereas's $10-million in salary that may not even be performing, so the Sox are going to have to make some decisions on positions based on total payroll.

3B and SS are the likely targets in my mind. Those are holes they are going to have to fill if they let OC walk. Will it be Fields at 3B? I don't believe so, but we'll see what KW thinks in the offseason. If Ramirez moves to SS, they will look at someone like Hudson for 2B.

The Sox can't pay to have a star at every position, so the choice is going to be where they can get by without a bat and take defense instead. Fields doesn't provide defense at 3B. I think the fact that Fields was sent down with Crede nowhere in sight says a lot about what management thinks of his prospects.

I think BA provides the defense in CF to make him the choice there. I don't necessarily expect BA to even be a .275 hitter, but he's still young and cheap and learning.

kittle42
08-21-2008, 01:18 PM
I can't believe this debate is starting up again. Anderson will be exposed of his weaknesses if he starts everyday. This is just like the great Ross Gload debate. Succeeding in a limited role does not mean you've 'figured it out' or that you can do it everyday. Maybe he's succeeding there because he's, uh, a fourth outfielder?

Ah, another debate I always tried to stay out of but couldn't help myself getting into because of the lunacy of the posters...the "Ross Gload is an everyday 1B" debate.

Chicago sure loves its crappy, limited-role, bench players. Football and baseball. Hey, one of them is now the starting QB for the Bears!

southside rocks
08-21-2008, 01:24 PM
Name them. He would have already been traded by most MLB teams.

I can't believe this debate is starting up again. Anderson will be exposed of his weaknesses if he starts everyday. This is just like the great Ross Gload debate. Succeeding in a limited role does not mean you've 'figured it out' or that you can do it everyday. Maybe he's succeeding there because he's, uh, a fourth outfielder?

That's what Steve Stone thinks, or that's what he's said on a couple of occasions during broadcasts. He said that sometimes the hardest task of a ballplayer is that of accepting his role on the ballclub, and that Brian Anderson has done a tremendous job of accepting his role and filling it to the satisfaction of his manager and to the benefit of the ballclub. Stone also added, more than once, that BA's good performance as a 4th/relief outfielder does not necessarily mean that BA would be successful as an everyday, starting OF.

Not that Steve Stone has any opinions worth listening to, of course.

btrain929
08-21-2008, 01:32 PM
Brian? Helloooooooooo

best.quote.ever.

turners56
08-21-2008, 02:11 PM
BA still struggles with breaking pitches. But he has had a much better season this year and has made much more progress than 06 and 07 combined. He's has a better OPS than Paulie right now.

kittle42
08-21-2008, 03:50 PM
That's what Steve Stone thinks, or that's what he's said on a couple of occasions during broadcasts. He said that sometimes the hardest task of a ballplayer is that of accepting his role on the ballclub, and that Brian Anderson has done a tremendous job of accepting his role and filling it to the satisfaction of his manager and to the benefit of the ballclub. Stone also added, more than once, that BA's good performance as a 4th/relief outfielder does not necessarily mean that BA would be successful as an everyday, starting OF.

Not that Steve Stone has any opinions worth listening to, of course.

Steve Stone is obviously just a BA hater!

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 04:20 PM
Steve Stone is obviously just a BA hater!

No, Steve Stone is half-genius, half-deity, half-mensch....... who despite his undeniable omniscience & omnipotence, for some mind-bogglingly inexpicable reason, has never been allowed to coach, manage, general-manage or otherwise direct.... within a 700,000 mile radius of a successful major league team.


.

Ranger
08-21-2008, 04:28 PM
No, Steve Stone is half-genius, half-deity, half-mensch....... who despite his undeniable omniscience & omnipotence, for some mind-bogglingly inexpicable reason, has never been allowed to coach, manage, general-manage or otherwise direct.... within a 700,000 mile radius of a successful major league team.


.

Who says he wants to?

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 04:28 PM
The discussion was about BA, not Fields,
.

Fields cannot play 3B, the biggest difference between him and BA right there.

And truth be told his hitting hasn't been better than Brian Anderson's in a while, either. Oh he's hit a few homers in meaningless games, you say? So did Jeff Liefer in 2002. Just keep that in mind.

tick53
08-21-2008, 05:29 PM
Brian Anderson has the potential to be a not-to-distant All Star. It really grinds my gears (thanks, Peter G) not to see him getting starts especially against lefties, who to my recollection we have faced a lot of lately. Speaking of which, I'm fairly certain that Brian can hit right handers too, but Ozzie only lets him bat for the most part against lefties.

The organization brags about pitching and defense and still their best defensive player rides the pine. Wise is a career minor leaguer past the age of 30 and if he did have any potential, some team would have snapped him up years ago. Griffey scares me to death in the field anymore. Maybe as a future DH, he will be fine but as an everyday CF'er, we can do better. Swisher again is OK but as we all realize, he's playing out of position.

If Jerry Owens is in the everyday lineup next year, I will be completely bummed. I was never that impressed with him for the short time that he was up.

Since the beginning of the season there has been talk of the teams centerfield woes. The answer is right in front of them. His name is Brian Anderson.

Daver
08-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Brian Anderson has the potential to be a not-to-distant All Star. It really grinds my gears (thanks, Peter G) not to see him getting starts especially against lefties, who to my recollection we have faced a lot of lately.

Brian has struggled to hit left handed pitching since his pre college days, his starts this year have almost always been against left handed starting pitching.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 05:53 PM
Such bull****. Swisher has not been bad at all. Slightly below average at the worst, average to slightly above average at best.

Yes, Swisher is a below average defensive CF. You think that's not important - especially given Dye's limited range and Quentin's average range?

Are or aren't Sox trying to win the World effin' Series, which prety much means that, almost default, they have to separate themselves from 29 other teams in MLB in how they do things, including their play in the field?

See this is where your average fan gets confused or else has low standards. They understand that the difference between a good swing and a bad swing is a fraction of a second/inch, a truly tiny margin for error for the batter. They understand that a difference between a good pitch and a bad pitch is fraction of a second/inch, a truly tiny margin for error for the pitcher.

And yet, when it comes to FIELDING (in center).... questionable positionining/anticipation instincts.... delayed read/jump.... incorrect route, drifting....unsound catching technique..... poor decision-making with throws.... subpar release/strenght/accuracy of said throws.... All the stuff that, cumulatively, over 160+ games, can lead to a ton of "extra" bases/outs/runs given up, not to mention the stress on the pitching staff.... Fans don't notice or don't care as much.

Anderson needs to hit .250, with 700+ OPS as #9 hitter in the line-up - and at his price, he'll be worth it to a winning team.

TomBradley72
08-21-2008, 05:55 PM
Brian has struggled to hit left handed pitching since his pre college days, his starts this year have almost always been against left handed starting pitching.

Career OPS vs. RHs: .658, vs. LHs: 656

rudylawdog
08-21-2008, 06:05 PM
. . . and he plays outfield like my ass chews gum.

That is seriously funny . . . and true.

balke
08-21-2008, 06:10 PM
Career OPS vs. RHs: .658, vs. LHs: 656

Yeah, mainly because he's swung for the fences against lefties this year. He's got 7 HR's against them this season and 0 against RHP. Other than that the slant was more in favor of RHP matchups. Last year he batted .000 against lefties.

I believe I looked up his minor splits at one point, and they were very much slanted to RHP matchups.

Daver
08-21-2008, 06:13 PM
Yeah, mainly because he's swung for the fences against lefties this year. He's got 7 HR's against them this season and 0 against RHP. Other than that the slant was more in favor of RHP matchups. Last year he batted .000 against lefties.

I believe I looked up his minor splits at one point, and they were very much slanted to RHP matchups.

His college numbers are too, but Tom wanted to prove me wrong using meaningless numbers.

Eddo144
08-21-2008, 06:13 PM
Yes, Swisher is a below average defensive CF. You think that's not important - especially given Dye's limited range and Quentin's average range?

Are or aren't Sox trying to win the World effin' Series, which prety much means that, almost default, they have to separate themselves from 29 other teams in MLB in how they do things, including their play in the field?

See this is where your average fan gets confused or else has low standards. They understand that the difference between a good swing and a bad swing is a fraction of a second/inch, a truly tiny margin for error for the batter. They understand that a difference between a good pitch and a bad pitch is fraction of a second/inch, a truly tiny margin for error for the pitcher.

And yet, when it comes to FIELDING (in center).... questionable positionining/anticipation instincts.... delayed read/jump.... incorrect route, drifting....unsound catching technique..... poor decision-making with throws.... subpar release/strenght/accuracy of said throws.... All the stuff that, cumulatively, over 160+ games, can lead to a ton of "extra" bases/outs/runs given up, not to mention the stress on the pitching staff.... Fans don't notice or don't care as much.

Anderson needs to hit .250, with 700+ OPS as #9 hitter in the line-up - and at his price, he'll be worth it to a winning team.
Nick Swisher OBP (2008 (career)): .356 (.360)
Brian Anderson OBP (2008 (career)): .274 (.277)

Now, we all know that the inverse of OBP is the percentage of the time you make out. Using career numbers, over a 640-PA season, Nick Swisher makes 410 outs, Brian Anderson 463 outs.

Now, even if you believe a defensive out is equal to an offensive out, Anderson would have to make an extra out in the outfield once every three games or so. Now, for their careers, when playing CF, Anderson has had roughly 1.88 chances per game, Swisher 2.18 (yeah, Swisher gets to more balls per game played, but Anderson is used as a late-inning replacement, so use that .30 chance-per-game difference with caution). So if we say that a CF sees just over 2 balls per game, that means Anderson would have to get seven outs for every six outs Swisher gets. That seems like a big jump.

Oh, and your claim of a 700+ OPS for Brian was kind of hurt by the poster after you, who showed that his career OPS vs. righties and lefties were both in the .650 range.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like Anderson in the role he's currently in. He's a good late-inning defensive replacement and spot starter. He's definitely better than Wise, but also shouldn't be starting more than once a week.

TomBradley72
08-21-2008, 07:18 PM
His college numbers are too, but Tom wanted to prove me wrong using meaningless numbers.

How is career OPS meaningless? Just as relevent as college numbers from 5 years ago.

Daver
08-21-2008, 07:24 PM
How is career OPS meaningless? Just as relevent as college numbers from 5 years ago.

If you want to believe that, more power to you.

ode to veeck
08-21-2008, 07:27 PM
Brian has struggled to hit left handed pitching since his pre college days, his starts this year have almost always been against left handed starting pitching.

at least Ozzie's not batting him 2nd in the order like he did during his brief stint early last year-he's doing much better deeper in the order

Gigantor3000
08-21-2008, 08:28 PM
What has he figured out? Did he wake up one day and figure out how to play baseball better? What is the point of this thread? That is something that I would like to figure out.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 10:40 PM
.

Now, even if you believe a defensive out is equal to an offensive out, Anderson would have to make an extra out in the outfield once every three games or so. Now, for their careers, when playing CF, Anderson has had roughly 1.88 chances per game, Swisher 2.18


.

1. Your defensive stats are primitive bordering on useless. Unfortunately, at this time there really isn't an accurate way to judge defensive prowess other than with one's eyes. Similar to gymnastics & figure skating in this regard. Suffice it to say over 7 month-long season, with all other variables being equal, Brian Anderson would yield you a lot more defensive value in terms of preventing "preventable" outs/bases/runs than Nick Swisher, in addition to easing the work of your pitching staff.

2. Obviously I am operating from the premise that Anderson is capable of posting a 300+ OBP as a starter. There is nothing in his career/pedigree that says he can't do it other tahn Ozzie's Dugout Doghouse. Maybe he can't, we'll see.

3. Bench role may indeed hide a lesser talented player's weaknesses, but in Brian's case, it simply contributed to his (I hope temporary) stunted growth. Even defensively - Brian's missing out on valuable experience in CF while sitting on the bench, not to mention when he actually does play in late innings, he is more likely to try for a spectacular-but-stupid play to justify his reputation or to try to score points with Ozzie - not unlike a pinch-hitter who may try too hard to impress.... What I am saying, the whole situation is not nearly as straight-forward as many are trying to make it.

4. Swisher is a natural 1B and should be in competition with Konerko.


Bottomline: Anderson has looked better of late and Greg Walker seems to be very bullish on his future. I say he needs to get another shot at starting in CF, sooner than later. I want better defense while the rock-solid pitching staff & explosive offense afford us that luxury.

Daver
08-21-2008, 10:59 PM
Bottomline: Anderson has looked better of late and Greg Walker seems to be very bullish on his future. I say he needs to get another shot at starting in CF, sooner than later. I want better defense while the rock-solid pitching staff & explosive offense afford us that luxury.

That Griffey guy can't play center, and he can't hit either.

Admit it Dima, Brian is going to play the role he has now till the end of the season, I give Ozzie credit for seeing the need to protect a lead, I didn't think he was that smart.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 11:09 PM
That Griffey guy can't play center, and he can't hit either.

Admit it Dima, Brian is going to play the role he has now till the end of the season, I give Ozzie credit for seeing the need to protect a lead, I didn't think he was that smart.

I liked the Griffey trade more than most..... but a blind person can see that he can't play CF anymore - at this point, his body wouldn't tolerate it even if he could!

(He can still hit, though, but for his unwillingness to make Thome-like adjustment. He'll be ok at the plate before long)

Ozzie dislikes Anderson. The whole situation may be helped by Wise injury but then there's still PK in the way... :smile:

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 11:21 PM
What has he figured out? Did he wake up one day and figure out how to play baseball better? What is the point of this thread? That is something that I would like to figure out.

Yep.

One morning, Brian woke up especially late.

As he struggled to kick the two strippers whose names he didn't remember other than one of them was said to have briefly dated Jose Valentin when she was in high school, out of his bed.

He suddenly figured out how to hit.

Daver
08-21-2008, 11:22 PM
I liked the Griffey trade more than most..... but a blind person can see that he can't play CF anymore - at this point, his body wouldn't tolerate it even if he could!

(He can still hit, though, but for his unwillingness to make Thome-like adjustment. He'll be ok at the plate before long)

Ozzie dislikes Anderson. The whole situation may be helped by Wise injury but then there's still PK in the way... :smile:

Ken Griffey Jr has the best swing I have ever personally seen, someday I'll figure out how lefties make it look so easy.

We'll agree to disagree on Ozzies opinion of Brian.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 11:34 PM
We'll agree to disagree on Ozzies opinion of Brian.

I thought you were Brian Anderson backer. :scratch:

Daver
08-21-2008, 11:38 PM
I thought you were Brian Anderson backer. :scratch:

No, I just like to point out facts over fiction on an occasional basis.

oeo
08-21-2008, 11:40 PM
I thought you were Brian Anderson backer. :scratch:

If Ozzie didn't like Brian, he would have been gone a long time ago. He didn't like his attitude in the past, but that's in the past because Brian grew up.

Accept the fact that all the talent we were supposed to have coming in the outfield (Reed, Anderson, Young, Sweeney) wasn't much at all. Kenny got some pretty good major leaguers for that overhyped talent, though.

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 11:52 PM
No, I just like to point out facts over fiction on an occasional basis.

So you don't like Brian Anderson? My bad, maybe it's somebody else I am thinking of.

Randar?

Adele_H
08-21-2008, 11:57 PM
If Ozzie didn't like Brian, he would have been gone a long time ago. He didn't like his attitude .

Um, no.

K-Dub > Ozzie. BA is around = Kenny likes BA. Ozzie clearly does not.

Nellie_Fox
08-22-2008, 12:00 AM
Ken Griffey Jr has the best swing I have ever personally seen, someday I'll figure out how lefties make it look so easy.I've always thought that it's because a lefty finishes his swing with his momentum carrying him toward first, so he can just smoothly flow into his run toward first. A righty has to bring his momentum to a stop and lunge toward first, by comparison looking awkward and off balance in the process. Just my opinion.

Daver
08-22-2008, 12:05 AM
So you don't like Brian Anderson? My bad, maybe it's somebody else I am thinking of.

Randar?

Where did I say I don't like him?

Adele_H
08-22-2008, 12:09 AM
Where did I say I don't like him?

So you like him, then? :scratch:

Adele_H
08-22-2008, 12:11 AM
I've always thought that it's because a lefty finishes his swing with his momentum carrying him toward first, so he can just smoothly flow into his run toward first. A righty has to bring his momentum to a stop and lunge toward first, by comparison looking awkward and off balance in the process. Just my opinion.

In most human beings, which is the dominant hand/leg?

I think you've answered your own question.

Nellie_Fox
08-22-2008, 12:13 AM
In most human beings, which is the dominant hand/leg?

I think you've answered your own question.One: I didn't ask a question. Two: what the hell are you talking about? I have no idea what you are trying to say, and what it has to do with my post. Most people are right-handed, so that makes left handers look smoother? I don't see the connection.

Adele_H
08-22-2008, 12:32 AM
One: I didn't ask a question. .

http://www.escapework.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ricky-gervais.jpg

"Exactly!

And that's your problem, mate - as all the ancients say, he who asks not self, is besieged with painful darkness in full. It's, um, from A-r-a-m-a-i-c; rough translation but very deep, trust me"



.

Nellie_Fox
08-22-2008, 12:41 AM
"Exactly!

And that's your problem, mate - as all the ancients say, he who asks not self, is besieged with painful darkness in full. It's, um, from A-r-a-m-a-i-c; rough translation but very deep, trust me"



.Okay, I've finally found a situation for this smiley:

:whiteflag:

kittle42
08-22-2008, 04:06 PM
I thought you were Brian Anderson backer. :scratch:

No, I just like to point out facts over fiction on an occasional basis.

So you don't like Brian Anderson? My bad, maybe it's somebody else I am thinking of.

Randar?

Is anyone capable of having a discussion without having to throw a label on someone? Is it that hard to believe someone may just be in the middle and have a reasoned opinion?

voodoochile
08-22-2008, 04:24 PM
Is anyone capable of having a discussion without having to throw a label on someone? Is it that hard to believe someone may just be in the middle and have a reasoned opinion?

What a FOBA... :D: :wink: :tongue:

Adele_H
08-22-2008, 06:01 PM
What a FOBA... :D: :wink: :tongue:



"FOBA"? Is it anything like FOD (Friend of Dorothy)? :?: :o:

voodoochile
08-22-2008, 06:06 PM
"FOBA"? Is it anything like FOD (Friend of Dorothy)? :?: :o:

Without the sexual connotations, yes. At least I assume it's without the sexual connotations, not that there's anything wrong with that either...

Adele_H
08-22-2008, 06:20 PM
Without the sexual connotations, yes. At least I assume it's without the sexual connotations, not that there's anything wrong with that either...

Now I feel quite ignorant, I should have known that.

Frater Perdurabo
08-23-2008, 11:35 AM
Is anyone capable of having a discussion without having to throw a label on someone? Is it that hard to believe someone may just be in the middle and have a reasoned opinion?

No. You have to be one or the other. There is no middle ground... :rolleyes: