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LITTLE NELL
08-14-2008, 07:39 PM
Jim has really turned it on after the usual slow start, now has 25HRs and 71RBIs. Whats the verdict for next year?

btrain929
08-14-2008, 07:42 PM
I want him to restructure his option for us ala Uribe this offseason. Come back for 8-9 million or so. I'm not sure what's allowed and what's not allowed with restructuring options, but that would be my recommendation.

Daver
08-14-2008, 07:49 PM
I want him to restructure his option for us ala Uribe this offseason. Come back for 8-9 million or so. I'm not sure what's allowed and what's not allowed with restructuring options, but that would be my recommendation.

That can't be done. MLB contracts are guaranteed.

Uribe was signed as a FA.

Adele_H
08-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Jim has really turned it on after the usual slow start, now has 25HRs and 71RBIs. Whats the verdict for next year?

Doesn't it hinge on Plate Appearances clause? Maybe I am thinking of somebody else.

Thome is doing as well as can be reasonably expected considering his bat has slowed down some and he can't (consistently) hit non-mistakes - especially good inside fastballs.

As long as Sox understand that he is no longer a star that he was as recently as first half of 2006.... and don't count on him to carry the team, Jimbo can be a very valuable asset.

Brian26
08-14-2008, 08:02 PM
I want him to restructure his option for us ala Uribe this offseason. Come back for 8-9 million or so. I'm not sure what's allowed and what's not allowed with restructuring options, but that would be my recommendation.

The Phillies are still going to be paying part of that option for 2009 anyway, so it's not going to be that bad.

Crede24Thome25
08-14-2008, 08:31 PM
If the Sox make it to the post season or deeper you can bet he will be back I hope so. He has done wonders for the sox.

Carolina Kenny
08-14-2008, 08:34 PM
Unless you can find a better LH power hitter, you better try to keep him.

BRDSR
08-14-2008, 08:47 PM
The Phillies are still going to be paying part of that option for 2009 anyway, so it's not going to be that bad.

I have read on this board that the Phillies' obligation towards Thome's contract ends after this year. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject, so take it for what it's worth.

TheOldRoman
08-14-2008, 09:11 PM
That can't be done. MLB contracts are guaranteed.

Uribe was signed as a FA.Uribe had a team option. The Sox re-signed him for slightly less than the option, just before the deadline to exercise the option. He was not yet a free agent. Btrain means they should do the same thing with Thome. Instead of picking up his option, give him a 1-year contract somewhere between the buy-out and the option.

As for the option, I have read that Kenny and the Phillies' GM had a handshake deal that the Phils would pay a good portion of it.

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 09:16 PM
I actually wouldn't re-sign him (especially for the kind of coin involved) if the option wasn't in play. Another year older...we have other DH options available (Dye, Konerko, etc.).

With that said...we could get decent production from him in 2009.

Daver
08-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Uribe had a team option. The Sox re-signed him for slightly less than the option, just before the deadline to exercise the option. He was not yet a free agent. Btrain means they should do the same thing with Thome. Instead of picking up his option, give him a 1-year contract somewhere between the buy-out and the option.

As for the option, I have read that Kenny and the Phillies' GM had a handshake deal that the Phils would pay a good portion of it.

He was signed right around the start of the free agency period, all it took was Kenny calling his agent, informing him that his option was declined, he could file for FA or accept this offer. That is not an option with Thome, his is not a team option, it is a performance based players option, that becomes guaranteed once he achieves the performance and agrees to the option.

Noneck
08-14-2008, 09:29 PM
That is not an option with Thome, his is not a team option, it is a performance based players option, that becomes guaranteed once he achieves the performance and agrees to the option.

And if he does not meet the performance requirement (plate appearances) he becomes a free agent and can negotiate a deal as a free agent with the Sox or any other club. Is that correct?

Daver
08-14-2008, 09:37 PM
And if he does not meet the performance requirement (plate appearances) he becomes a free agent and can negotiate a deal as a free agent with the Sox or any other club. Is that correct?

No.

The Sox would have to offer him arbitration, and have him refuse it to negotiate with him as a FA. If they do not offer him arbitration they can't negotiate with him until May 1st of the following year.

That being said, I really doubt Thome won't achieve the PA's needed to kick his option in.

Noneck
08-14-2008, 09:54 PM
No.

The Sox would have to offer him arbitration, and have him refuse it to negotiate with him as a FA. If they do not offer him arbitration they can't negotiate with him until May 1st of the following year.

That being said, I really doubt Thome won't achieve the PA's needed to kick his option in.

I agree, This was an interesting discussion but at this point of the season he should get the PA unless a major injury occurs and the way he is hitting I hope no one wants that in order for the Sox to save some money for next year.

TheOldRoman
08-14-2008, 10:59 PM
He was signed right around the start of the free agency period, all it took was Kenny calling his agent, informing him that his option was declined, he could file for FA or accept this offer. That is not an option with Thome, his is not a team option, it is a performance based players option, that becomes guaranteed once he achieves the performance and agrees to the option.I don't know when exactly Kenny let his agent know they weren't picking up the option, but the new contract was announced hours before the deadline. You are correct about Thome's option, though. I forgot that it will vest.

shes
08-15-2008, 01:42 AM
Doesn't it hinge on Plate Appearances clause? Maybe I am thinking of somebody else.

Thome is doing as well as can be reasonably expected considering his bat has slowed down some and he can't (consistently) hit non-mistakes - especially good inside fastballs.

As long as Sox understand that he is no longer a star that he was as recently as first half of 2006.... and don't count on him to carry the team, Jimbo can be a very valuable asset.

Eh, he was still a star last year. Fifth in the league in OPS. He's dropped off some this year, sure, but he's been pounding the ball in the second half and has a higher OPS than Magglio, Miguel Cabrera, Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, and Vlad Guerrero -- all guys that are currently considered to be star ballplayers. Thome's combination of power and plate discipline is still strong enough to warrant a large paycheck next year. Whatever we replace him with won't be as effective, I can guarantee you that.

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2008, 01:48 AM
I have read on this board that the Phillies' obligation towards Thome's contract ends after this year. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject, so take it for what it's worth.Steve Stone said the Phillies are on the hook for about half of the option year if it becomes guaranteed. I don't know where he got his information, but he's pretty reliable.

He only needs about 120 plate appearances the rest of the way for the option to become guaranteed. The Sox have 42 games remaining. That's fewer than three plate appearances (NOT at bats) per game. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't get that.

Mohoney
08-15-2008, 03:07 AM
The best option is to root for a division championship and quite a few home games in the playoffs. The increased revenue could make the salaries of guys like Orlando Cabrera and Jim Thome superfluous.

Look at the amount of money that ownership invested in the 2006 team. Thome and Vazquez were added, and Konerko was re-signed, and the cost of those moves was far from negligible.

If we were blessed with another World Series championship, that extra revenue would go a long way toward keeping this group together.

hawkjt
08-15-2008, 03:15 AM
After June I was ready to cut Jimbo loose and use the money to sign Joe. Now,I wonder if the money is better spent with Jimbo next year. If the phillies pay half...he is worth the 7-8 million the sox would owe. He is dangerous again and that makes the sox better.

Adele_H
08-15-2008, 03:16 AM
The best option is to root for a division championship and quite a few home games in the playoffs. The increased revenue could make the salaries of guys like Orlando Cabrera and Jim Thome superfluous.
.

Unless he does something magical in October and helps us Win the World Series...

I want no part of giving Cabrera 3/35 type contract.

He can go have a rap duel/bling-off death-match with Edgar Renteria on the mountain for all I care.

Adele_H
08-15-2008, 06:15 PM
After June I was ready to cut Jimbo loose and use the money to sign Joe. .


Speaking of which, has Borass made any formal contractual demands yet?

soxfanreggie
08-15-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure what production we'll be seeing out of him in a year. If we can work out an arrangment that's good for the Sox-either something new if he doesn't meet the option requirements or maybe having him meet hte option, then I'm all for it. We need to do something about the Swisher-PK-Thome situation. Swisher is doing great at 1st and we need a regular CF because I doubt Griffey is what we need there next season. Thus, we would be relegating Thome to PH/fill-in DH or PK to PH/fill-in DH/back-up 1B status.

chaerulez
08-15-2008, 07:26 PM
No.

The Sox would have to offer him arbitration, and have him refuse it to negotiate with him as a FA. If they do not offer him arbitration they can't negotiate with him until May 1st of the following year.

That being said, I really doubt Thome won't achieve the PA's needed to kick his option in.

It might be close. By my count Thome has 983 PA's in 2007-08 and he needs 1,100. There are 42 games and he only needs 117 PA's he should make it provided he doesn't miss a week or so worth of games.

Adele_H
08-15-2008, 07:52 PM
It might be close. By my count Thome has 983 PA's in 2007-08 and he needs 1,100. There are 42 games and he only needs 117 PA's he should make it provided he doesn't miss a week or so worth of games.

At Thome's age, with his recent (minor) injury history... NOTHING IS GUARANTEED.

Griffey trade was also made as a form of Thome insurence (and Griffey is a better DH than he's a CF, suffice it to say)

illini81887
08-15-2008, 08:18 PM
milton bradley wouldnt be a bad option at DH if thome not back next yr

chaerulez
08-15-2008, 08:32 PM
milton bradley wouldnt be a bad option at DH if thome not back next yr

Bradley can play either corner OF position still, he's only 30, I think the Rangers use him mostly at DH because he's less durable than J.D. Drew (which I didn't think was possible).

Vernam
08-15-2008, 11:06 PM
Not long ago, a lot of fans' plan was for Thome to fade into the sunset so Konerko could shift to DH. Tempi cambi, as Michael Corleone said. Personally, I have a hard time believing Thome will be worth $13M in 2009, but it looks like that's what he'll be making. And PK ain't going nowhere either, IMO. It'd be a whole lot easier to abide those contracts with a second championship under our belts. But if we miss the playoffs, those guys are going to look like a real drag on the payroll. Either way, I can think of better ways to spend $25M or whatever it is. For that much, we might even be able to get a couple of guys who could run the bases, steal a base, etc. Imagine that . . .

Vernam

Nellie_Fox
08-16-2008, 01:11 AM
Personally, I have a hard time believing Thome will be worth $13M in 2009, but it looks like that's what he'll be making.What if the Sox are only on the hook for about $7M of that, and Philly has the rest? Because that's what Steve Stone said would be the case. I suspect his information is pretty good.

Noneck
08-16-2008, 02:45 AM
What if the Sox are only on the hook for about $7M of that, and Philly has the rest? Because that's what Steve Stone said would be the case. I suspect his information is pretty good.

$7M minus the I believe $3M buy out, which would be $4M actually to keep him.

Nellie_Fox
08-16-2008, 03:16 AM
$7M minus the I believe $3M buy out, which would be $4M actually to keep him.I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but there is no "buyout" if the option becomes guaranteed by the 1100 plate appearances. If he doesn't reach 1100, the Sox can either exercise the option (which I'm quite certain doesn't put Philly on the hook for anything) or buy out the option. But if he does, there is no buyout; it becomes a guaranteed year.

soxfan43
08-26-2008, 04:10 PM
I just saw on the chat at mlbtraderumors.com( I know, not the most reliable source) that thome's option is more or less guaranteed now with all his plate appearances. I tried looking at some baseball sites for plate apperance stats but I couldn't find anything. Anyone know how many PA's Thome has so far? I believe he needs l ike 660 for the option to vest, but I could be wrong there. So it seems like we will be going with thome at DH, paulie at first and swish in center again.

White City
08-26-2008, 04:46 PM
489 so far this year, according to this site (http://firstinning.com/players/Jim-Thome-a/).

btrain929
08-26-2008, 04:49 PM
Daver,

You seem to know about this situation and the options and all of that. Do you have any idea about the confusion we all have whether or not the Phillies will pick up any of the '09 salary if it becomes guaranteed with the PA's? I agree that if the Phillies pick up half of it (which is what Stoney said), then I'd be 200% alright having Thome back next year at 7 mil.