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View Full Version : Is Alexei the Best Sox Player?


BigP50
08-14-2008, 02:01 AM
I have heard Hawk say numerous times that he is the best all around player on the team.


I would say he is the best Defender, and he is fast but as for best player I'm not sure

Crede24Thome25
08-14-2008, 02:03 AM
I have heard Hawk say numerous times that he is the best all around player on the team.


I would say he is the best Defender, and he is fast but as for best player I'm not sure


Who do you think is the best all around player I personally think it's Alexei.

BigP50
08-14-2008, 02:07 AM
actually I would say Carlos Quentin

He has the best bat, a very strong arm, covers the outfield very well, has got hit the most, he is always focused.

gogosox16
08-14-2008, 02:48 AM
actually I would say Carlos Quentin

He has the best bat, a very strong arm, covers the outfield very well, has got hit the most, he is always focused.
1. He is actually very weak in the outfield if you ask me. He always seems to get late jumps on the balls and seems to have a hard time picking the ball off the bat.

2. what does having to get hit the most have to do with best overall player?:scratch:

TDog
08-14-2008, 02:58 AM
It depends on how you define "best player."

Alexei Ramirez probably has the most baseball sense of any player on the White Sox. He probably has the best combination of baseball skills. He can run, catch, hit and hit for power. There are players on the Sox who hit better for power, of course. There are players who get on base more often. I honestly don't know if Ramirez is as good a centerfielder as Brian Anderson, but he might be the best defensive shortstop and secondbaseman on the White Sox.

Best player, of course, isn't synonymous with most valuable player. But Ramirez gets his share of big hits.

gogosox16
08-14-2008, 03:01 AM
It depends on how you define "best player."

Alexei Ramirez probably has the most baseball sense of any player on the White Sox. He probably has the best combination of baseball skills. He can run, catch, hit and hit for power. There are players on the Sox who hit better for power, of course. There are players who get on base more often. I honestly don't know if Ramirez is as good a centerfielder as Brian Anderson, but he might be the best defensive shortstop and secondbaseman on the White Sox.

Best player, of course, isn't synonymous with most valuable player. But Ramirez gets his share of big hits.
Very well said. Alexei is kind of what Iguchi was to the sox in 2005. He always played heads up ball, always made the right decisions, comes through in the clutch, does the little things, and so forth.

chisoxfan4life
08-14-2008, 03:27 AM
Pretty amazing that the players being discussed as the best players on the team are making roughly a combined $2 million and neither of the two were on the team last season. If KW doesn't win GM of the year it will be a huge snub. Also, both of these guys will be around for many more seasons at least!!

Best "player" on the Sox is Griffey and then Thome. By that I mean that those are two sure fire HOF and in 20 years when an average fan looks at our roster from this season, those are the 2 names that will stick out.

I think guys like AJ and Danks deserve some consideration as the best players on the team as well. John has been screwed over by lack of run support all year and catching is a grueling position and to be hitting near .300 for most of the season while calling the shots and being a leader on the team is quite impressive.

AnkleSox
08-14-2008, 10:34 AM
He is probably the best all around player, despite the rookie mistakes he sometimes makes in the field.

But when you consider where the Sox would be without him vs. where they would be without TCQ, I'd have to say that Carlos is definitely more valuable.

balke
08-14-2008, 10:49 AM
Probably best player, he can do everything all around. MVP is Quentin though. As a LFer he doesn't have to be that great a defender (Carlos Lee). He's got a good arm out there and makes the plays he should. His bat is a big reason the Sox are winning anything right now though.

2nd MVP would probably be Alexei as far as position players go though. He's hit big HR's and played a great 2B while hitting for a good avg. Its a team game though, and I think there are a lot of good and valuable players on this team. Jermaine Dye is having a great season, being overshadowed by these two guys performing so well so young. Dye might overtake TCQ in homeruns with the time he is missing. As a matter of fact, he should probably be 2nd or 1st in the Sox MVP voting right now.

BigP50
08-14-2008, 11:43 AM
2. what does having to get hit the most have to do with best overall player?:scratch:


If u watch him he rarely moves even when he knows the ball is coming right at him which means he'll do annything to get on base

thedudeabides
08-14-2008, 12:22 PM
1. He is actually very weak in the outfield if you ask me. He always seems to get late jumps on the balls and seems to have a hard time picking the ball off the bat.

2. what does having to get hit the most have to do with best overall player?:scratch:

Why does he get so much grief around here for being a weak outfielder? He is a plus leftfielder. Take a look around both leagues and look at the defense being played in LF. He is the least of our concerns as far as outfield defense goes.

He has a good arm, gets to the balls that he should, and rarley makes mistakes. I think some people fell for the hype that he was an outstanding RF without ever seeing him play.

oeo
08-14-2008, 12:24 PM
If u watch him he rarely moves even when he knows the ball is coming right at him which means he'll do annything to get on base

I don't really think that's by design. He just can't get out of the way, which is why he gets hit so much.

BigP50
08-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Why does he get so much grief around here for being a weak outfielder? He is a plus leftfielder. Take a look around both leagues and look at the defense being played in LF. He is the least of our concerns as far as outfield defense goes.

He has a good arm, gets to the balls that he should, and rarley makes mistakes. I think some people fell for the hype that he was an outstanding RF without ever seeing him play.


I remember a couple of days ago seeing a diving catch by him and really early in the year when he gunned that gut down from Left

oeo
08-14-2008, 12:26 PM
Why does he get so much grief around here for being a weak outfielder? He is a plus leftfielder. Take a look around both leagues and look at the defense being played in LF. He is the least of our concerns as far as outfield defense goes.

He has a good arm, gets to the balls that he should, and rarley makes mistakes. I think some people fell for the hype that he was an outstanding RF without ever seeing him play.

He makes the plays, he just doesn't look very pretty making them a lot of the time.

Adele_H
08-14-2008, 12:41 PM
I have heard Hawk say numerous times that he is the best all around player on the team.


I would say he is the best Defender, and he is fast but as for best player I'm not sure

I feel like I am replying to a spam-thread, no offense BigP50.

Granted Alexei has hit a bit of a mini-wall the last few days or so... but for about a couple of months there when Quentin was slumping, Alexei was right up there with Jermaine Dye as far as best Sox player.

But no, Alexei is not the best Sox player. He is the most TALENTED all-around player on the Sox, but he's not proven it consistently (yet).

Give him a year or two.

JB98
08-14-2008, 12:44 PM
Why does he get so much grief around here for being a weak outfielder? He is a plus leftfielder. Take a look around both leagues and look at the defense being played in LF. He is the least of our concerns as far as outfield defense goes.

He has a good arm, gets to the balls that he should, and rarley makes mistakes. I think some people fell for the hype that he was an outstanding RF without ever seeing him play.

The outfield defense is always a huge concern here. I don't really understand it. There seems to be a large portion of the Sox fan base suffering from a Mackowiak hangover. It really isn't that big of a deal.

Quentin and Dye are our two best players. Ramirez will get there eventually. He's a clutch performer with a lot of skill, still just a little bit raw.

Tragg
08-14-2008, 01:29 PM
We won a WS with terrible defensive left-fielder. That's a position where you should give up D for O. TCQ is better than his 2 predecessors: Lee and Podsednik

RockyMtnSoxFan
08-14-2008, 01:54 PM
I think it's interesting that Alexei and Iguchi are considered to have some of the best "baseball" instincts of players we've had recently, and neither one came through the Sox minor league organization. They are also both team-oriented players who won't swing for the fences every time. Why can't we develop guys like that within our organization? The other Sox player who has a good sense of how to play baseball is AJ, and we all know about the Twins organization.

DumpJerry
08-14-2008, 02:06 PM
If u watch him he rarely moves even when he knows the ball is coming right at him which means he'll do annything to get on base
:scratch:

If it was that easy to get the "best player on the team" label, then why don't all the Sox players crowd the plate until seven or eight of them in a row get hit to score 5 runs each inning?

BigP50
08-14-2008, 02:12 PM
I never said that's why he is the best i said it ws one of the reasons that helps his case

FoulTerritory
08-14-2008, 02:13 PM
Jermaine Dye is the best player on the team. A. Ramirez is the most multi-faceted or well-rounded player (with the most distinct tools).

BigP50
08-14-2008, 02:18 PM
I'd say Alexei=Most talented but that doesn't mean he is the best

Adele_H
08-14-2008, 09:43 PM
I think some people fell for the hype that he was an outstanding RF without ever seeing him play.

.

I think you may be right, but that brings another question: the professional scouts who built him up as a Gold Glove-caliber RF, what were they thinking - and do these scouts have an agenda of their own...?

While still better than Lee, Podsednik, Ozuna, Gload, the usual LF fare... Quentin has been a bit of a disappointment defensively. With added weight the last few years, he obviously was not going to have range to play CF we all knew that, but his arm hasn't been as strong or as accurate as I expected and the reads/angles aren't that special, either.

That said, Quentin may be better LF than Dye is a RF and Swisher CF. :cool:

Konerko05
08-14-2008, 11:16 PM
For some reason putting the word "baseball" in front of player makes a difference to me. Alexei is the best baseball player on the team. I think that's what Hawk's statement has been throughout the year too.

I kind of compare it to little league. When watching a team, the shortstop is usually the best baseball player on the team. He plays very fluidly, good instincts, a strong arm, and has the best baseball intelligence. There might be a big kid on the team that can mash, but after watching the team take infield the shortstop usually stands out as the "best baseball player" on the team. That is how I think of Alexei. He is just truly gifted with baseball talent.



As for Quentin's defense, I think it has been pretty solid throughout the year. He makes all the plays, and has a good idea of what he is doing out there. He also has a decent arm and seems to get to balls down the line quickly.

Like others have stated, he gets bad reads on the ball. Since he was rated as an above average right fielder, I was thinking maybe the ball is just that much harder to read off the bat in left field for him. I know I used to hate playing left field because it is very hard to judge where the ball is going directly off the bat. In right field, you have a much better angle on right handed hitters so the read is much easier. I used to feel the same way about playing second base compared to shortstop. So hopefully, he will grow as a left fielder as he gets more used to the position.

Dibbs
08-14-2008, 11:24 PM
When Hawk says Alexei is the best baseball player on the team, he doesn't really mean he is the best player on the team.

Carlos Quentin is a much better player than Alexei. Carlos may be the MVP of the league.

Konerko05
08-14-2008, 11:26 PM
When Hawk says Alexei is the best baseball player on the team, he doesn't really mean he is the best player on the team.

Carlos Quentin is a much better player than Alexei. Carlos may be the MVP of the league.

Was that directed to me? If it was, did you bother to read my post past the second sentence?

I think it is pretty obvious to everyone that Carlos Quentin is the most valuable.

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2008, 12:42 AM
If u watch him he rarely moves even when he knows the ball is coming right at him which means he'll do annything to get on baseIf you (with a "y" and an "o") watch, you'll see that, in that deep crouch he bats from, he's pretty much locked in place. I don't think he takes the hits deliberately, he just can't get out of the way. He apparently accepts that as a trade off for a batting stance that works for him.

IlliniSox4Life
08-15-2008, 01:18 AM
If you (with a "y" and an "o") watch, you'll see that, in that deep crouch he bats from, he's pretty much locked in place. I don't think he takes the hits deliberately, he just can't get out of the way. He apparently accepts that as a trade off for a batting stance that works for him.
Exactly.

Actually, Carlos getting hit so much is a BAD thing. The more he gets hit, the more time he needs off, and I would rather have his bat in the lineup everyday than have him leading the league in HBPs.

Adele_H
08-15-2008, 02:05 AM
If you (with a "y" and an "o") watch, you'll see that, in that deep crouch he bats from, he's pretty much locked in place. I don't think he takes the hits deliberately, he just can't get out of the way. He apparently accepts that as a trade off for a batting stance that works for him.

Carlos Quentin is stupid like a fox.

While he keeps getting plunked, that OBP is a-climbin'. He'll finish with almost 30 this year.

And if he can raise his annual OBP from, say, 370 to 400 with all those HBP.... Come contract negotiations, his agent will be spinning the numbers every which way, probably yielding his client an extra 2 mill per year from some Moneyball GM.

So, really, after plunking TCQ in the bicepts, why not just write him a check for $100,000 each time and get it over with?

Forget 'stupid' - this guy is a diabolical genius destined to be the One to take down Billy Beane (by then the Dodgers GM).


.

Konerko05
08-15-2008, 02:14 AM
Carlos Quentin is stupid like a fox.

While he keeps getting plunked, that OBP is a-climbin'. He'll finish with almost 30 this year.

And if he can raise his annual OBP from, say, 370 to 400 with all those HBP.... Come contract negotiations, his agent will be spinning the numbers every which way, probably yielding his client an extra 2 mill per year from some Moneyball GM.

So, really, after plunking TCQ in the bicepts, why not just write him a check for $100,000 each time and get it over with?

Forget 'stupid' - this guy is a diabolical genius destined to be the One to take down Billy Beane (by then the Dodgers GM).


.

Didn't the man graduate from Stanford in 3.5 years? He would probably be the last person on the Sox I would be calling stupid.

Mohoney
08-15-2008, 02:19 AM
Jermaine Dye is the best player on the team.

I'm inclined to agree with this as far as position players go, but I would go with Mark Buehrle as the best overall player on the team.

soxinem1
08-15-2008, 08:26 AM
We won a WS with terrible defensive left-fielder. That's a position where you should give up D for O. TCQ is better than his 2 predecessors: Lee and Podsednik

As far as numbers, CLee and TCQ are very similar. A little slow in the OF, Lee witha better arm, Q with more focus. CLee could steal a base when needed, but Q a little better disciplined at the plate.

The thing I always liked about CLee was that he does not K a lot. Q looks like he can be the same type hitter.

Pods was not an upgrade from CLee at all in the OF, that 'defensive upgrade' was a myth. At least CLee had/has a decent arm.

ChiSoxFan7
08-15-2008, 09:12 AM
potential to be the best player is a toss up between TCQ and TCM.


Q has sick power, great patience, phenomenal OBP, not a liabilty in the outfield (arm and range), and manageable speed

M has the alot more tools than Q but tools without of discipline you come out like uribe. Good player but just does some bonehead things at times. It's sad but true, Uribe and M posses (almost) the same skill set. Swings at everything, fast, amazing range/arm, and loads of upside. Uribe hasn't ever gained half the conrtol that Missile now was but i digress...


The best player, however, in my opinion, is JD. Proven, tested.

Great Arm. Good Defense. Clutch Hitter. Power and OBP. 05 WSMVP. He knows his stuff and is able to deal with pressure which is sometimes the hardest part of baseball.

slavko
08-15-2008, 10:21 AM
As far as numbers, CLee and TCQ are very similar. A little slow in the OF, Lee witha better arm, Q with more focus. CLee could steal a base when needed, but Q a little better disciplined at the plate.

The thing I always liked about CLee was that he does not K a lot. Q looks like he can be the same type hitter.

Pods was not an upgrade from CLee at all in the OF, that 'defensive upgrade' was a myth. At least CLee had/has a decent arm.

I'll back you up on that. CLee could go back to the fence on a fly ball. Pods was likely to drop it, miss it, or get hit by it.

Adele_H
08-15-2008, 04:10 PM
As far as numbers, CLee and TCQ are very similar. A little slow in the OF, Lee witha better arm.

Caballo's throwing was nothing write home about. People ran on him so OF assists are inflated.

As for Prancer Dergan, aside from other problems, he made it abundantly clear that he wanted no part of any wall - fair or foul.

Dibbs
08-15-2008, 05:03 PM
Was that directed to me? If it was, did you bother to read my post past the second sentence?

I think it is pretty obvious to everyone that Carlos Quentin is the most valuable.


I wasn't directing anything at anybody. I was just saying although Hawk says Alexei is the best baseball player on the team....he is just talking a little crazy. In no way, shape or form is Alexei the best player on the team. Hawk just likes to get a little crazy sometimes....but I still love him.

Konerko05
08-15-2008, 05:44 PM
I wasn't directing anything at anybody. I was just saying although Hawk says Alexei is the best baseball player on the team....he is just talking a little crazy. In no way, shape or form is Alexei the best player on the team. Hawk just likes to get a little crazy sometimes....but I still love him.

I think most of the argument consists of what people constitute as the best player. Most people have different definitions and a different understanding.

I think everyone agrees that Carlos Quentin is the biggest factor in winning ballgames. No one in the right mind would say Alexei Ramirez is actually better than Carlos Quentin.

chaerulez
08-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Our best player is our team MVP, who is also a candidate for AL MVP, Carlos Quentin. Alexi has been good this year, but he's not the best player on the team.

SOXfnNlansing
08-15-2008, 06:24 PM
I wouldn't disagree with Ramirez, but I think AJ's value is overlooked. He handles the bulk of the games with the pitching staff. He is a dugout motivator and a timely hitter when it really matters.

NSide56
08-24-2008, 11:30 PM
I think that in 2 years, Alexei Ramirez will be accepted as one of the best hitters ever -- and I am not prone to hyperbole.

He is right now among the best I personally have ever seen, and I've been around a long time.

All he lacks is strike zone discipline. I kinda think that he is at least partly of the opinion, however, that walks suck in comparison to a fat slugging percentage.

In his case, it's true. High OBP would not add to his legend much. People don't even bring it up when talking about him.

He doesn't really know how to steal yet. Also, not a good bunter. When he learns, watch out.

He is right now the best-fielding second baseman I can remember. No one else is even close.

DumpJerry
08-25-2008, 12:16 AM
All he lacks is strike zone discipline. I kinda think that he is at least partly of the opinion, however, that walks suck in comparison to a fat slugging percentage.
:welcome:
I agree with you on his Strike Zone discipline. Alexei swings at way too many pitches outside the Zone. He gets away with it a lot of the time because of his long arms. However, he has only 10 walks which is very telling of his patience.

johnnyg83
08-25-2008, 01:14 AM
Ever?

I hope you're right.

I don't remember being this excited by a young duo --TCQ/TCM-- since Frank and Robin.

jabrch
08-25-2008, 07:35 AM
:welcome:
I agree with you on his Strike Zone discipline. Alexei swings at way too many pitches outside the Zone. He gets away with it a lot of the time because of his long arms. However, he has only 10 walks which is very telling of his patience.

I only wonder if he cut down his # of swings if he'd adversely impact more important things than walks like hits, XBH and runs produced.

Alexei is what he is...and that kind of hitter CAN be successful.

Craig Grebeck
08-25-2008, 07:40 AM
I think that in 2 years, Alexei Ramirez will be accepted as one of the best hitters ever -- and I am not prone to hyperbole.

He is right now among the best I personally have ever seen, and I've been around a long time.

All he lacks is strike zone discipline. I kinda think that he is at least partly of the opinion, however, that walks suck in comparison to a fat slugging percentage.

In his case, it's true. High OBP would not add to his legend much. People don't even bring it up when talking about him.

He doesn't really know how to steal yet. Also, not a good bunter. When he learns, watch out.

He is right now the best-fielding second baseman I can remember. No one else is even close.
You should watch more baseball.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-25-2008, 08:49 AM
:welcome:
I agree with you on his Strike Zone discipline. Alexei swings at way too many pitches outside the Zone. He gets away with it a lot of the time because of his long arms. However, he has only 10 walks which is very telling of his patience.


Obviously he has played baseball before but how different are Caribbean pitchers from MLB pitchers? I am very impressed that TCM can fight off so many pitches and still come away with a hit....

As far as the original question Ill go with JD being our best all around player....

White City
08-25-2008, 09:56 AM
I liked Alexei's play at third yesterday.

In all the talk about him playing 2B or SS next year, I have heard very little about Alexei as a 3B. Maybe we want more power out of that position? Or perhaps folks don't believe he could provide above-average defense at 3B.

What if the answer for 2009 (by the second half of the season) was Alexei at 3B, Beckham at SS and Getz/Richar at second? Uribe at SS until Beckham is ready.