PDA

View Full Version : Now that the nostalgia has worn off, how do you feel about the Griffey trade?


Whitesoxfan23
08-12-2008, 05:35 PM
I think it is pointless. Give me Swisher in CF anyday over Griffey. Can't wait till he is gone next year. Unfortunately, he is hurting us right now.

doublem23
08-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Where's the "10 Games is Too Small a Sample Size to Make Definitive Judgments" selection?

Daver
08-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Where's the "10 Games is Too Small a Sample Size to Make Definitive Judgments" selection?

Comeon Doub, there is no sample size small enough for a good number of members here, if you don't put up great fantasy baseball stats every day you suck.

Whitesoxfan23
08-12-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't play fantasy baseball.

sox1970
08-12-2008, 05:41 PM
I like Griffey DHing and pinch hitting occasionally.

He does not belong in CF anymore--but he's out there again tonight.

I'd really like to see Anderson and Wise platoon and bat 9th.

Whitesoxfan23
08-12-2008, 05:43 PM
And with Konerko looking better, the trade is looking even more pointless. It wouldn't be so bad if they wouldn't put him in CF. Ugh.

balke
08-12-2008, 05:48 PM
I feel he lit a fire under Swish and PK's asses, and that he'll start hitting sometime in the next month, and a lot of the naysayers will hop right on the bandwagon.

DoItForDanPasqua
08-12-2008, 05:49 PM
Where's the "10 Games is Too Small a Sample Size to Make Definitive Judgments" selection?

OK, throw in the 105 games he played for Cincinnati and he's still hitting below .250.

WhiteSoxBlog
08-12-2008, 05:51 PM
And with Konerko looking better, the trade is looking even more pointless. It wouldn't be so bad if they wouldn't put him in CF. Ugh.
Agreed. Who knows, maybe in three more weeks we'll go back to this thread and Konerko will be batting .132 and Griffey will play CF like Crede plays (played? :whiner:) 3B, but for now, it doesn't seem like a helpful acquisition

kittle42
08-12-2008, 05:52 PM
I'd really like to see Anderson and Wise platoon and bat 9th.

Playing Anderson/Wise now really seems foolish.

Crede24Thome25
08-12-2008, 05:53 PM
I thought it made no since at all to trade for Griffey now for Adam Dunn I can understand. I'm still shocked:o: they chose Griffey over Dunn.

Fenway
08-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Sadly this reminds me of Willie Mays with the Mets

http://www.cnnsi.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/03/odd.uniforms.ad/gallery_1_mays.jpg

Noneck
08-12-2008, 06:04 PM
If it was him that put a clamp on the Sox change purse for the stretch drive, It wasn't a good move. Otherwise it's an insurance policy a LH DH that could go down any day, which is ok for a team in a stretch drive.

DoItForDanPasqua
08-12-2008, 06:05 PM
Sadly this reminds me of Willie Mays with the Mets

http://www.cnnsi.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/03/odd.uniforms.ad/gallery_1_mays.jpg

Wow. He looks older in this picture than he looks now.

WhiteSox5187
08-12-2008, 06:10 PM
Comeon Doub, there is no sample size small enough for a good number of members here, if you don't put up great fantasy baseball stats every day you suck.
It's not just that he's putting up bad fantasy numbers, but he looks old and tired in CF and lost at the plate. I fail to see what he brings to the team.

Marqhead
08-12-2008, 06:22 PM
He brings more to this team than Masset and Richar. That is the most important point. I still agree with the trade.

areilly
08-12-2008, 06:26 PM
How do I feel? I feel like the Sox got the total opposite of what they actually needed and now I wonder where they got the idea that having two Nick Swishers was better than having just one.

I guess the short answer would be "****ty."

Blueprint1
08-12-2008, 06:27 PM
He brings more to this team than Masset and Richar. That is the most important point. I still agree with the trade.

Not sure about that really. Masset could have been given a chance as the 5th starter.

bluestar
08-12-2008, 06:28 PM
As someone who very casually follows the Reds, I thought putting him in CF was a mistake from the beginning. I don't mind having him on the team as another DH option, or even occasionally letting him give JD a day off. He is brutal in CF, though, and the Reds have known that for some time.

The more time that passes since the trade, the more I am inclined to believe the move was made as much to sell tickets as anything. Even on the whitesox.com home page, they have a blurb encouraging people to buy tickets to see Griffey at USCF.

WhiteSoxBlog
08-12-2008, 06:28 PM
He brings more to this team than Masset and Richar. That is the most important point. I still agree with the trade.
but is he bringing more than Swisher/Konerko. Because, in essence, they are the ones he is replacing

Daver
08-12-2008, 06:30 PM
As someone who very casually follows the Reds, I thought putting him in CF was a mistake from the beginning. I don't mind having him on the team as another DH option, or even occasionally letting him give JD a day off. He is brutal in CF, though, and the Reds have known that for some time.

The more time that passes since the trade, the more I am inclined to believe the move was made as much to sell tickets as anything. Even on the whitesox.com home page, they have a blurb encouraging people to buy tickets to see Griffey at USCF.

Griffey is no worse than Wise in center, and there is a good percentage of experts here that think Wise should get a lot more playing time.

Bill Naharodny
08-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Griffey is no worse than Wise in center, and there is a good percentage of experts here that think Wise should get a lot more playing time.

Wrong.

Marqhead
08-12-2008, 06:41 PM
Not sure about that really. Masset could have been given a chance as the 5th starter.
Masset was given plenty of opportunities to succeed with this organization and failed. He had done nothing to deserve a starting spot, while Carrasco has. I understand it would be nice to have another long reliever to replace Carrasco, but Masset just wasn't a good pitcher.

Optipessimism
08-12-2008, 06:44 PM
Paulie has been playing better since Griffey arrived and Griffey allows the Sox to rest some players. I'd say it has worked out so far and you can't just judge it on Griffey's play. It's probably helped sell tickets too.

Masset *might* have been capable of filling in as a 5th starter but I'd be no more confident in him than the rest of the mediocrity or flat out garbage we have to choose from right now. I don't have faith in Broadway, Carrasco, Masset, Egbert, Richard, Poreda, Whisler, Haeger, any of those guys. Maybe a couple of them go on to do some things in the Major Leagues in the future, in fact I'd bet that they do, but now and in a pennant race I don't want any of those guys starting games.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-12-2008, 06:52 PM
I like having him on the team but not in CF. DH, RF, 1B OK to rest others. I feel kinda of bad for him out there. Ozzie believes in defense but only for the infield evidently.

TomBradley72
08-12-2008, 06:56 PM
He brings more to this team than Masset and Richar. That is the most important point. I still agree with the trade.

I'd rather have Masset...we need an arm more than we need a 2nd left handed hitting DH.

TomBradley72
08-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Paulie has been playing better since Griffey arrived and Griffey allows the Sox to rest some players. I'd say it has worked out so far and you can't just judge it on Griffey's play.

We already had Swisher to play the super sub role to rest Dye/Konerko/Thome. We didn't need Griffey to do that.

Seems like Griffey was traded primarily for insurance in case one of those guys went down with injury.

South Side Irish
08-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Seems like Griffey was traded primarily for insurance in case one of those guys went down with injury.

Aaaand Jackpot. Masset didn't (and wouldn't have) helped this team win the pennant. We gave nothing up for an insurance policy and an outside chance at seeing him revitalized. Still could happen.

At its worst, this trade tightens the budget and prevented another trade for a SP/RP from happening. I doubt that, but it's the only downside (albeit slim) I can find.

And if Paulie heats up and plays well, we can give credit to KW for "motivating" him by acquiring his competition. :wink:

cws05champ
08-12-2008, 07:11 PM
And with Konerko looking better, the trade is looking even more pointless. It wouldn't be so bad if they wouldn't put him in CF. Ugh.
The real question is, would Konerko be hitting better if we did not acquire Griffey? They seemed to coincide a bit...hmmmm.

johnr1note
08-12-2008, 07:16 PM
I was at the game last night, and I have to say, Griffey looks listless and lifeless. He is a shadow of what he once was. He seems uncomfortable at the plate, and is stabbing at the ball at best. Two of the hits that cost us runs late in the game would have been caught by better centerfielder. BA should have been out there in the 8th and 9th inning to protect the slim lead we had when Danks still had the no-hitter. The deal for Griffey made no sense at the time, and still makes no sense now. We needed pitching, not another slow footed outfielder/DH.

BRDSR
08-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Who am I supposed to be nostalgic for? Masset and Richar? Did you mean "now that the novelty has worn off"?

If the White Sox make the playoffs, it was a good trade, because they at least would have made them without Griffey and maybe they wouldn't have. If they don't, it was a bad trade, because that means they still wouldn't have made it without Griffey and it wasn't worth giving up two young guys.

Since evaluating trades with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight is cheating, I will go ahead and say I'm still happy about the trade. It improved a team that is right on the playoff bubble. What more can you ask for in a trade?

DickAllen72
08-12-2008, 07:51 PM
I like Griffey DHing and pinch hitting occasionally.

He does not belong in CF anymore--but he's out there again tonight.

I'd really like to see Anderson and Wise platoon and bat 9th.
I agree with all this 100%.

I didn't vote because none of the choices reflect the above points.

A. Cavatica
08-12-2008, 07:52 PM
I like him on the bench just fine. He shouldn't be in center. I blame the manager for trotting him out there (and not bringing in an early defensive replacement when he does) -- but really, that was predictable from the moment we heard of the deal. I still think he'll win a few games for us down the stretch.

Medford Bobby
08-12-2008, 07:58 PM
Think of Griffey as this years "2005 Geoff Blum"!:cool:

LuzinskiRoofShot
08-12-2008, 08:10 PM
I feel the same way now as I did when the trade was announced. I want to be optimistic and hope that he will drive in some critical runs down the road, but there wasn't a need for him. He can't play center so the only positions for him are RF and DH. There's no way he's replacing JD and Thome's been hitting for a while now.

slavko
08-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Sadly this reminds me of Willie Mays with the Mets

http://www.cnnsi.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/03/odd.uniforms.ad/gallery_1_mays.jpg

If Griffat was in this kind of shape physically, he could do us some good. This Willie is ~5 years older than Griffat, IMO. I still dig you Willie

jabrch
08-12-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm still waiting for the second move that I was sure KW was going to make that made this one make more sense to me. That said, I'm hoping this one pays off later somehow.

Hitmen77
08-12-2008, 09:36 PM
As someone who very casually follows the Reds, I thought putting him in CF was a mistake from the beginning. I don't mind having him on the team as another DH option, or even occasionally letting him give JD a day off. He is brutal in CF, though, and the Reds have known that for some time.

The more time that passes since the trade, the more I am inclined to believe the move was made as much to sell tickets as anything. Even on the whitesox.com home page, they have a blurb encouraging people to buy tickets to see Griffey at USCF.



The Sox were already drawing well and in a good position to have good crowds as they stayed in the race. I really doubt they are going to sell that many more tickets to offset the portion of Griffey's salary they are picking up.

Eddo144
08-12-2008, 11:40 PM
Objectively, I still don't have a problem with the trade, as it is incredibly low-risk. Massett could be a serviceable fourth or fifth starter, but he has a low ceiling and wasn't going to play a major role in the Sox' postseason aspirations this year. Richar has never thrilled me, and is especially expendable with Ramirez (and now Getz) emerging.

There's a chance (though probably not a very great one) that Griffey still gets hot and contributes to winning.

The biggest potential negative is if Guillen keeps sending Griffey out there even if he's slumping (you could say the same about Konerko, too) just because he's a high-profile player. If he winds up costing Swisher or Konerko playing time if and when they're actually hitting, then the trade is a negative one for the Sox. However, on the year, Griffey still has slightly better numbers than Swisher and Konerko, so as of now, it's not a big problem (though Swisher is impressing lately).

Rdy2PlayBall
08-12-2008, 11:55 PM
It's really cool to have a guy like Griffy on the team. His bat isn't what has me angry with him though... it's the fielding. I have never seen so many extra bases and outs given by an outfielder this year. xD I hope he does better, I'm still glad the Sox got him. :D:

Hitmen77
08-13-2008, 12:06 AM
I'm still undecided on the trade. Still time to see how this plays out.

I'm not happy with him playing CF, he's a defensive liability out there. As far as hitting goes, I don't think he's quite as washed up as his hitting for us so far might indicate. Hawk keeps saying that Jr. is just pressing because of being on a new club. Hmmmm.....is that true or is that classic Hawk boosterism?....we'll see. I think his hitting will come around a bit. What I do like about him is that he will help give Dye, Konerko, Swisher, Thome, and Quentin some much needed rest.

WhiteSox5187
08-13-2008, 12:25 AM
Griffey is no worse than Wise in center, and there is a good percentage of experts here that think Wise should get a lot more playing time.
I LOATHE Wise in CF. And while I admit I know nothing about playing the OF (I'm a second baseman/IF/emergency catcher by trade but I'm trying to learn to play of the OF), I think the advantage that Wise has over Griffey is if he gets a bad read off the bat, he has the speed to recover. Whereas if Griffey gets a bad read off of the bat, you're looking at a single being possibly played into a triple. Although Wise has had his share of bad reads, and Griffey probably still gets a better read off of the bat than Wise.

I think in terms of defense our CFers rank as follows: Anderson, Swisher (a distant second), Wise, THEN Griffey.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2008, 01:43 AM
If Griffat was in this kind of shape physically, he could do us some good. This Willie is ~5 years older than Griffat, IMO. I still dig you WillieGriffat. I get it. He's fat. :rolleyes:

Bucky F. Dent
08-13-2008, 08:06 AM
Not liking him in center, don't want to disturb the corners.

Where are we gonna play this guy.

grv1974
08-13-2008, 08:08 AM
Griffey's a has-been. It's just like when we finally got Darin Erstad.............long after his prime.

oeo
08-13-2008, 08:28 AM
I feel the same way now as I did when the trade was announced. I want to be optimistic and hope that he will drive in some critical runs down the road, but there wasn't a need for him. He can't play center so the only positions for him are RF and DH. There's no way he's replacing JD and Thome's been hitting for a while now.

It's called insurance. If the Sox didn't have it, and somebody went down with an injury, we'd all be hearing how Kenny isn't doing his job.

thepaulbowski
08-13-2008, 08:50 AM
The Sox gave up nothing for him. It is/was worth it because there's no risk involved.

ms620
08-13-2008, 09:10 AM
It's called insurance. If the Sox didn't have it, and somebody went down with an injury, we'd all be hearing how Kenny isn't doing his job.

I am not sure why many people here don't get this...

tonyho7476
08-13-2008, 09:24 AM
I am not sure why many people here don't get this...

If it has motivated/pushed Konerko and Swisher, then its fine by me. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to be doing much for this team.

WhiteSoxBlog
08-13-2008, 09:30 AM
I am not sure why many people here don't get this...
Maybe they feel like Swish/Konerko are insurance for Griffey, not the other way around. It seemed when he first joined our team that they would have to make adjustments for him. Ideally, he'd be for the OF (or DH) what Uribe is for the infield: nice to have him around for special occasions, but there are others that can do his job (arguably, of course) better

Lillian
08-13-2008, 09:48 AM
Like most of you, I really don't feel comfortable with him in Center, and
it is indeed hard to find a place for him to play. However, offensively you would think that he still may be able to contribute.
Jim Edmonds is the same age, has also had his share of injuries, and look what he is doing. If Jr. could do anything close to what Edmonds has done for the Cubs, he will have been a worth while addition. The question is; whether or not he is capable of that.
How would compare the two players, as this stage of their careers?

palehozenychicty
08-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Like most of you, I really don't feel comfortable with him in Center, and
it is indeed hard to find a place for him to play. However, offensively you would think that he still may be able to contribute.
Jim Edmonds is the same age, has also had his share of injuries, and look what he is doing. If Jr. could do anything close to what Edmonds has done for the Cubs, he will have been a worth while addition. The question is; whether or not he is capable of that.
How would compare the two players, as this stage of their careers?


Edmonds has looked far better in the outfield, and they have both had spurts of good hitting. Griffey's days in the outfield, though, are over. I mean, if the Reds knew this, how come we don't? The insurance factor for DH is all good, but that's it. At least we won't need him next year.

russ99
08-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Edmonds has looked far better in the outfield, and they have both had spurts of good hitting. Griffey's days in the outfield, though, are over. I mean, if the Reds knew this, how come we don't? The insurance factor for DH is all good, but that's it. At least we won't need him next year.

Let's wait until comparing those two. As I recall Edmonds was awful the first 3 weeks too, and Cubs fans were calling for his release.

We have a lot more baseball to play and I'm certain Junior will contribute. Also, he's not looked as bad in CF as I had thought he would. His range and arm are certainly below average, but he's not butchered things either.

downstairs
08-13-2008, 10:31 AM
It's called insurance. If the Sox didn't have it, and somebody went down with an injury, we'd all be hearing how Kenny isn't doing his job.

Sheeesh. It took how many posts for people to mention this?

Was anyone around a few years ago when injuries to Maggs and Frank would completely derail a season? Well, if Thome, Konerko, Swish go down- we have a good enough replacement.

By the way: we got him for nothing.

Repeat: we got him for nothing.

Therefore, it *can't* be a bad deal.

Marqhead
08-13-2008, 10:35 AM
Sheeesh. It took how many posts for people to mention this?

Was anyone around a few years ago when injuries to Maggs and Frank would completely derail a season? Well, if Thome, Konerko, Swish go down- we have a good enough replacement.

By the way: we got him for nothing.

Repeat: we got him for nothing.

Therefore, it *can't* be a bad deal.
100% agree. Spot on. In Kenny we trust!

areilly
08-13-2008, 10:50 AM
Sheeesh. It took how many posts for people to mention this?

Was anyone around a few years ago when injuries to Maggs and Frank would completely derail a season? Well, if Thome, Konerko, Swish go down- we have a good enough replacement.

By the way: we got him for nothing.

Repeat: we got him for nothing.

Therefore, it *can't* be a bad deal.

You're overlooking the fact that Magglio and Frank were hitting .292 and .271 respectively when they went down in 2004. If Swisher or Paulie's season were suddenly over, it wouldn't really be that hard to find another three-outcome stiff.

Oh, wait, I forgot, they already found that guy.

balke
08-13-2008, 10:54 AM
You're overlooking the fact that Magglio and Frank were hitting .292 and .271 respectively when they went down in 2004. If Swisher or Paulie's season were suddenly over, it wouldn't really be that hard to find another three-outcome stiff.

Oh, wait, I forgot, they already found that guy.

Batting avg. isn't really the concern when you lose power hitters. There's not a 25+ HR hitter who also collects doubles laying around in the minors. And what most of this board is overlooking, is that PK and Swisher are .230 or lower hitters this season at the time of that trade. PK looked like he was about to go on the DL just from being HORRIBLE. This team lost a lot of games earlier this season because NOONE (Besides JD and Quentin) COULD HIT. Kenny had to get someone with some kind of track record to mix it up, add insurance, and possibly wake up some of these slumping hitters.

Griffey is going to hit a hot streak, and then everyone is going to shut up about it. Just be patient.

credefan19
08-13-2008, 01:48 PM
He isn't great, but not horrible

areilly
08-13-2008, 01:53 PM
Batting avg. isn't really the concern when you lose power hitters. There's not a 25+ HR hitter who also collects doubles laying around in the minors. And what most of this board is overlooking, is that PK and Swisher are .230 or lower hitters this season at the time of that trade. PK looked like he was about to go on the DL just from being HORRIBLE. This team lost a lot of games earlier this season because NOONE (Besides JD and Quentin) COULD HIT. Kenny had to get someone with some kind of track record to mix it up, add insurance, and possibly wake up some of these slumping hitters.

Griffey is going to hit a hot streak, and then everyone is going to shut up about it. Just be patient.

I agree with the first part of your statement. I just don't think Griffey, at this point in his career, was the answer.

However much I don't believe the second part, I would not mind being wrong. The way things are going for him though, a 3-for-9 series might be all the hot streak we see out of Griffey.

balke
08-13-2008, 02:09 PM
I agree with the first part of your statement. I just don't think Griffey, at this point in his career, was the answer.

However much I don't believe the second part, I would not mind being wrong. The way things are going for him though, a 3-for-9 series might be all the hot streak we see out of Griffey.

Well I think a big part of that trade was his July .271 .386 .541

August doesn't look so hot right now, but I'd take that line in September for sure.

BainesHOF
08-13-2008, 02:23 PM
First of all, we gave up nothing for Griffey.

Second of all, give Griffey some time. He's not completely finished. He was swinging the bat well for the Reds when we acquired him. Now, the National League is like a JV league compared to the American League so you have to factor that into Griffey's future performance. But the man didn't suddenly forget how to hit home runs. To me, it's been pretty clear he's been pressing to impress his new team. Give him a little more time to settle into his new situation. I don't expect miracles from him anymore, but I think it's still very possible that he'll help us. If nothing else, bat him only against righties.

And if you don't like the trade, blame Konerko and Swisher for their paltry production this season. Williams waited months for them to come around. Kudos to him for finally trying to rectify the situation. And Konerko and Swisher got months to stay in the lineup and pick up their offense. Give Griffey more than 10 days.

pythons007
08-13-2008, 02:25 PM
I love the deal. It also allowed me to go out and pick up a Griffey WHITE SOX jersey. He is going to help out the clubhouse, and he has already won a freaking game by himself! Christ there are a lot of pessimists on this board! We gave up Massett and Richar! Richar sucked, Getz is better and Alexei is better hand down! We have OC at SS and Beckem just recently drafted. So that takes care of Richar. Massett sucked and we get Griffey, A FREAKING HALL OF FAMER! This guy is going to do more for this team than you think.

I LOVE THIS TRADE! GIMME SOMEMORE OF GRIFFEY!

Rockabilly
08-13-2008, 02:30 PM
by the end of the season JR will win some big games for us... Just having him in the club house is huge..Plus I love seeing one of my fav players of all time in a Sox uniform

Masset and Richar suck so I don't know , why people are bashing this trade...

pythons007
08-13-2008, 02:37 PM
Masset and Richar suck so I don't know , why people are bashing this trade...


I don't get it either. Hall of famer or two guys that won't amount to ****? I think its a toss up!

mantis1212
08-13-2008, 02:39 PM
It's called insurance. If the Sox didn't have it, and somebody went down with an injury, we'd all be hearing how Kenny isn't doing his job.

I like the idea of him being insurance, until I see Ozzie sit Dye for Griffey in right field last week. There is not excuse for giving Griffey any of Dye's at-bats. JD already had a day off that week.

Griffey should not be playing in the field at all, unless someone is really injured. Swish offers far more ability in CF now.

balke
08-14-2008, 11:07 AM
Nobody's going to say anything about his play last night in CF?

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 11:15 AM
Nobody's going to say anything about his play last night in CF?

Most CF's catch that ball on the run without a dive. Between a bad route/jump and being our slowest OF...he had to dive to get it. It WAS a nice catch...but it shouldn't have been that hard.

As far as the trade goes...I like the trade if it's mostly insurance against Thome going down with an injury (wasn't he having back trouble a few weeks ago?). But as far as Griffey playing alot in the field...it hurts our defense which hurts our pitching. We have plenty of ways to generate runs...I want defense in CF.

kittle42
08-14-2008, 11:15 AM
Nobody's going to say anything about his play last night in CF?

That dive? He broke the wrong way on it and then lumbered in like a 40 year-old.

jenn2080
08-14-2008, 11:19 AM
It was a pointless trade.

doublem23
08-14-2008, 11:20 AM
It was a pointless trade.

At least it got rid of Danny Richar so I don't have to read people talk about him as our second baseman of the future any more.

For that alone, thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

balke
08-14-2008, 11:22 AM
That dive? He broke the wrong way on it and then lumbered in like a 40 year-old.

FALSE

The play is on the White Sox main page and he makes a straight line to the ball to record the out. He's already at a full sprint by the time they cut to him. Swisher wouldn't make that play, and Griffey wouldn't have hopped at the wall for that play Swisher did either.

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 11:34 AM
FALSE

The play is on the White Sox main page and he makes a straight line to the ball to record the out. He's already at a full sprint by the time they cut to him. Swisher wouldn't make that play, and Griffey wouldn't have hopped at the wall for that play Swisher did either.

Hawk mentioned Jr. didn't good a good read during the broadcast...watching it real time...that ball is in medium depth, left center field...sorry but a real CF catches that ball standing up on the run.

balke
08-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Hawk mentioned Jr. didn't good a good read during the broadcast...watching it real time...that ball is in medium depth, left center field...sorry but a real CF catches that ball standing up on the run.


He broke right immediately and judged it on the run, I saw a better visual on ESPN. He heads straight left, and curved to a shallow depth on the run. The important thing is he got off and running in the right direction, he didn't hesitate and didn't let it fall for a hit.

Noone's calling him a REAL Cfer. I wouldn't have called Carl Everett a real CFer either. Serviceable is good enough right now for the Sox, so long as serviceable comes equipped with a bat that's better than what you have.

I think he's as good or better than Swisher, who is also not a real CFer. To me that makes him the best option, because overall he has the best bat of our CFer's.

So yeah, I like the Griffey trade. Improvement at CF, Improvement to offense, insurance, depth.

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 11:47 AM
He broke right immediately and judged it on the run, I saw a better visual on ESPN. He heads straight left, and curved to a shallow depth on the run. The important thing is he got off and running in the right direction, he didn't hesitate and didn't let it fall for a hit.

Noone's calling him a REAL Cfer. I wouldn't have called Carl Everett a real CFer either. Serviceable is good enough right now for the Sox, so long as serviceable comes equipped with a bat that's better than what you have.

I think he's as good or better than Swisher, who is also not a real CFer. To me that makes him the best option, because overall he has the best bat of our CFer's.

So yeah, I like the Griffey trade. Improvement at CF, Improvement to offense, insurance, depth.

I don't think he's as good as Swisher and Swisher is the worst starting CF in the American League (as far as defense goes). Griffey is at least two steps slower than a quality CF...over time...that's alot of balls dropping in that will extend innings and pitch counts for our guys and lead to extra runs allowed. His ~.240's average is not worth that price.

There's a reason he hasn't played CF since 2006.

kittle42
08-14-2008, 11:48 AM
FALSE

The play is on the White Sox main page and he makes a straight line to the ball to record the out. He's already at a full sprint by the time they cut to him. Swisher wouldn't make that play, and Griffey wouldn't have hopped at the wall for that play Swisher did either.

Hawk and DJ even said he took the wrong start at it.

kittle42
08-14-2008, 11:49 AM
I don't think he's as good as Swisher and Swisher is the worst starting CF in the American League (as far as defense goes). Griffey is at least two steps slower than a quality CF...over time...that's alot of balls dropping in that will extend innings and pitch counts for our guys and lead to extra runs allowed. His ~.240's average is not worth that price.

There's a reason he hasn't played CF since 2006.

He was a butcher in RF for the Reds, too. Sad to watch, sometimes. He definitely shouldn't be in CF.

balke
08-14-2008, 12:01 PM
Hawk and DJ even said he took the wrong start at it.

He adjusted on the run, but he didn't hesitate or go back on the ball. If that was Swisher he would've played it safe, gotten behind it, and played it on the hop most likely. He almost let that fly ball at the wall hook on him last night. He had to jump and adjust at the last second to grab it.

PennStater98r
08-14-2008, 12:04 PM
Though we have a lot of veterns playing on this team - we do have some young kids that will be called up shortly. How do you think those kids will respond to playing along side and sitting in the dugout with Junior?

That's not to mention that his experience in playing CF is greater than the skill that Swisher has. Griffey had 10 Gold Gloves playing CF and knows how to play it - his body may not always keep up with his mind, but he will show that he knows how to take the right path to balls hit off the bat - which is something we have not had here in a long time.

There's more that goes into a trade than the HR you hit and the balls that you get to or don't get to. We gave up nothing for him and the knowledge that he will pass on and way he inspires some may be worth it alone. Masset was not coming back up to our pro roster and Richar is done in this organization - as any possible spot he could play is spoken for.

balke
08-14-2008, 12:07 PM
I don't think he's as good as Swisher.

You and I differ on opinion then.

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 12:15 PM
You and I differ on opinion then.

Can you name a starting CF in the American League (especially for a contending team) that is worse than Swisher defensively?

balke
08-14-2008, 12:29 PM
Can you name a starting CF in the American League (especially for a contending team) that is worse than Swisher defensively?

No, that opinion we share, the other we don't. :wink:

TomBradley72
08-14-2008, 12:31 PM
No, that opinion we share, the other we don't. :wink:

Fair enough. :gulp:

Rockabilly
08-14-2008, 12:36 PM
Can you name a starting CF in the American League (especially for a contending team) that is worse than Swisher defensively?


Maybe Melky Cabrera I don't care for his defense at all...

BigP50
08-14-2008, 12:44 PM
I like having im because if Swish or Pauly needs a day off we have a really good player to put in

tstrike2000
08-18-2008, 03:53 PM
It's still a good trade in that, we didn't give up much, and I can't see him being that much worse in CF than Swisher. Plus, if it helps light some fire under the asses offensively that are Konerko and Swisher, then good. Even though it's a little closer now, he was batting 20 points better and a slightly higher OBP and Slugging % than both Konerko and Swish when we got him.

hi im skot
08-18-2008, 03:58 PM
Griffey had 10 Gold Gloves playing CF...


Eric Chavez and Derek Jeter have a decent collection of Gold Gloves between the two of them.

Unfortunately, Gold Gloves don't really measure anything but popularity.

ChiSoxFan7
08-18-2008, 04:08 PM
Eric Chavez and Derek Jeter have a decent collection of Gold Gloves between the two of them.

Unfortunately, Gold Gloves don't really measure anything but popularity.


and what players can make routine plays look really difficult....ala jim edmunds.

Good player/great defender, but he just get's aweful, aweful reads and terrible first steps.

MCHSoxFan
08-18-2008, 04:09 PM
And with Konerko looking better, the trade is looking even more pointless. It wouldn't be so bad if they wouldn't put him in CF. Ugh.

Griff made Paulie better. I say this cause he (Paulie) didn't want to lose his job. Just a though.

MCHSoxFan
08-18-2008, 04:12 PM
and what players can make routine plays look really difficult....ala jim edmunds. Good player/great defender, but he just get's aweful, aweful reads and terrible first steps.

True. Great point! Cubs fans say that about Rowand. But...even if true, he doesn't get any national credit like a GG.

hi im skot
08-18-2008, 04:29 PM
True. Great point! Cubs fans say that about Rowand. But...even if true, he doesn't get any national credit like a GG.

I'm not sure what Cubs fans have to do with this...

Oh, and Rowand has won a Gold Glove.

sas1974
08-18-2008, 04:37 PM
That IS a good point, but I don't think you can lump Junior into that category back when he was racking up those Gold Gloves. He was arguably the best all-around player of that era.

areilly
08-18-2008, 05:05 PM
That IS a good point, but I don't think you can lump Junior into that category back when he was racking up those Gold Gloves. He was arguably the best all-around player of that era.

The bolded word should tell us all how much Griffey has and will help this team.

The Critic
08-18-2008, 05:13 PM
I went with "no opinion".
I don't miss Masset or Richar, and I won't miss Griffey when he's gone.

TDog
08-18-2008, 05:18 PM
I don't believe the Sox gave up much for Griffey in trade, but I have found that I'm not a huge Griffey fan now that he is with the Sox.

In Sunday's game, when the starting lineups were being announced, I cringed when I saw that Griffey would start in center in Oakland. Swisher had a bad afternoon Saturday in center (his old starting position in his old home ballpark), but I imagined Griffey wouldn't get to the balls Swisher had adventures with the previous day. As it turns out, he played well in center, though he wasn't challenged much. He hit the ball hard, as he had done the day before (all against left-handed pitching).

But I had problems with one at bat. Griffey hit a fly ball and stood to admire it momentarily before going into a home run trot. The ball was caught at the wall in a heck of a play, but one would expect from Griffey's reactionthat it wouldhave gone farther. The next time through the order, Jermaine Dye he a home run to right that carried well enough. It didn't seem that the wind knocked Griffey's ball down.

I wrote in a game thread that I wouldn't be surprised if Griffey doesn't hit a home run with the Sox. That isn't to say that I would be surprised if he hits one. I certainly hope he does. Griffey hasn't been with the Sox long, but this doesn't seem to be the same Griffey I remember watching play a few years ago.

Jim Shorts
08-18-2008, 05:20 PM
I don't believe the Sox gave up much for Griffey in trade, but I have found that I'm not a huge Griffey fan now that he is with the Sox.

In Sunday's game, when the starting lineups were being announced, I cringed when I saw that Griffey would start in center in Oakland. Swisher had a bad afternoon Saturday in center (his old starting position in his old home ballpark), but I imagined Griffey wouldn't get to the balls Swisher had adventures with the previous day. As it turns out, he played well in center, though he wasn't challenged much. He hit the ball hard, as he had done the day before (all against left-handed pitching).

But I had problems with one at bat. Griffey hit a fly ball and stood to admire it momentarily before going into a home run trot. The ball was caught at the wall in a heck of a play, but one would expect from Griffey's reactionthat it wouldhave gone farther. The next time through the order, Jermaine Dye he a home run to right that carried well enough. It didn't seem that the wind knocked Griffey's ball down.

I wrote in a game thread that I wouldn't be surprised if Griffey doesn't hit a home run with the Sox. That isn't to say that I would be surprised if he hits one. I certainly hope he does. Griffey hasn't been with the Sox long, but this doesn't seem to be the same Griffey I remember watching play a few years ago.

I don't think Griff pulled a Soriano there as much as he knew that was to the deepest part of the yard and knew it was an out.

TommyGavinFloyd
08-18-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't believe the Sox gave up much for Griffey in trade, but I have found that I'm not a huge Griffey fan now that he is with the Sox.

In Sunday's game, when the starting lineups were being announced, I cringed when I saw that Griffey would start in center in Oakland. Swisher had a bad afternoon Saturday in center (his old starting position in his old home ballpark), but I imagined Griffey wouldn't get to the balls Swisher had adventures with the previous day. As it turns out, he played well in center, though he wasn't challenged much. He hit the ball hard, as he had done the day before (all against left-handed pitching).

But I had problems with one at bat. Griffey hit a fly ball and stood to admire it momentarily before going into a home run trot. The ball was caught at the wall in a heck of a play, but one would expect from Griffey's reactionthat it wouldhave gone farther. The next time through the order, Jermaine Dye he a home run to right that carried well enough. It didn't seem that the wind knocked Griffey's ball down.

I wrote in a game thread that I wouldn't be surprised if Griffey doesn't hit a home run with the Sox. That isn't to say that I would be surprised if he hits one. I certainly hope he does. Griffey hasn't been with the Sox long, but this doesn't seem to be the same Griffey I remember watching play a few years ago.

Konerko was at first at the time, and had to go halfway in case the ball was caught. Griffey did what he was supposed to, he got Jermaine over. He can react however the hell he wants.

gobears1987
08-18-2008, 05:44 PM
He brings more to this team than Masset and Richar. That is the most important point. I still agree with the trade.
My thoughts exactly

TDog
08-18-2008, 06:06 PM
Konerko was at first at the time, and had to go halfway in case the ball was caught. Griffey did what he was supposed to, he got Jermaine over. He can react however the hell he wants.

Sure he can, and he set up the first run scoring on the wild pitch. But it was obvious that he thought he had hit a home run although it was obvious to others that the ball wasn't going out. The A's fans with scorebooks in front of me said the same thing.

I'm not suggesting Griffey was dogging it. But I think the incident reflects that he has lost some of his power. I'm not sure that what he brings offensively justifies what he brings to center. But the same could be said of Nick Swisher.

Adele_H
08-18-2008, 10:35 PM
As long as Griffey remains healthy.... and unless Richar becomes a perennial All-Star & Sox miss the playoffs this year... it was a good trade because:

1) it provides insurence against Thome getting re-injured

2) it lights some fire under Konerko, Swisher, Anderson & even Thome to produce consistently or face possibility of benching.

3) it puts fannies in seats and gets people to talk about the red-headed stepchild that are our Chicago White Sox.


While reaction time isn't quite what it was in Seattle, Griffey still has a fairly quick bat. He just needs to make a slight Thome-like adjustment in his approach to close some holes in his swing, which unfortunately the proud Junior has so far refused to make, resulting in a prolonged power slump.

Jerome
08-18-2008, 11:01 PM
He's good insurance to have so Paulie and Thome can rest up a bit more than they usually would without the extra bat

plus it not like he's getting a ton of playing time - Swisher/Paulie/Thome is still the lineup of choice as far as I can tell.

ChiSoxLifer
08-19-2008, 07:35 PM
While his stats have been underwhelming to say the least, the Sox have an 8W and 4L record with him in the lineup and an 11W and 6L overall since the trade.

When I first heard of the trade my response was no more than a shrug since his best days are long past. However, the Sox have been playing with more intensity and focus since his arrival.

Would they have had the same record without the trade? I would personally say no. They were a a pedestrian 13W and 12L in July. I'd say the trade was the booster shot in the ass that they needed (emotionally).

Not that I'm saying, but I'm just saying...

joshua1024
08-20-2008, 02:28 PM
Junior obviously is in the waning months, or years, of a great career, and the contribution he makes may be largely limited to one of "inspiration." But don't undervalue the importance of inspiration, even on a club of extraordinary professionals. His personal integrity, his classiness and his prior achievements add a positive lustre and role model for the many younger players on the team. He's happy doing whatever he can to help the team - no Gary Sheffield he - and even if it is to "lead by [moral] example," that's alot.

I do think his stats will start to improve, though.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-20-2008, 02:32 PM
If Griffey being on the team gives Konerko/Thome days off so he and Swish can rotate around, thereby giving PK and JT some longevity towards the end of the season, then it's a good trade.

I'd like to see Griffey get one more shot at the postseason...and I hope it's this year, with this team.

KenBerryGrab
08-20-2008, 02:50 PM
Feeling a little better right now.... :D:

Whitesoxfan23
08-20-2008, 02:51 PM
Lol. So am I :D:

ajismyhero
08-20-2008, 03:26 PM
Junior obviously is in the waning months, or years, of a great career, and the contribution he makes may be largely limited to one of "inspiration." But don't undervalue the importance of inspiration, even on a club of extraordinary professionals. His personal integrity, his classiness and his prior achievements add a positive lustre and role model for the many younger players on the team. He's happy doing whatever he can to help the team - no Gary Sheffield he - and even if it is to "lead by [moral] example," that's alot.

I do think his stats will start to improve, though.

I can't agree more, and I'm proud that HE'S proud to wear the Sox uniform every day. I would love to far into the playoffs and help him get to that one final accomplishment of an outstanding career.

Hitmen77
08-20-2008, 04:54 PM
Junior is now tied with Corky for 5th on the all time HR list. :gulp:

Great to see a little bit of history made on the South Side today.

hawkjt
08-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Griff is having fun on the south side now.
Good to see him go deep and get into the fray.
With Thome gimpy, it is comforting to know we have another big lefty presence we can plug in...they still pitch around him.

slavko
08-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Griff is having fun on the south side now.
Good to see him go deep and get into the fray.
With Thome gimpy, it is comforting to know we have another big lefty presence we can plug in...they still pitch around him.

I'll refrain from making another "fat" joke here. I'm feeling good. Still, he hasn't helped the team one damn bit, yet. Maybe he'll turn out to be the "Big Klu" of 1959.

Whitesoxfan23
09-27-2008, 05:33 AM
I honestly rather they have kept Masset. He wasn't that great, but he's better than Logan, Macdougal, and Wasserman. Terrible trade by KW.

kitekrazy
09-27-2008, 08:59 AM
I honestly rather they have kept Masset. He wasn't that great, but he's better than Logan, Macdougal, and Wasserman. Terrible trade by KW.

He might have only been the one with any value. If Sox fans know the guys above suck, so do all the GMs until Matt Millen enters MLB.

tick53
09-28-2008, 10:05 AM
I like Griffey DHing and pinch hitting occasionally.

He does not belong in CF anymore--but he's out there again tonight.

I'd really like to see Anderson and Wise platoon and bat 9th.

I agree with you an everything besides the platooning part. Anderson should be the every day CF'er. Wise should be a bench player only.

MeteorsSox4367
09-28-2008, 10:40 AM
I agree with you an everything besides the platooning part. Anderson should be the every day CF'er. Wise should be a bench player only.

I'm with you. I'd love to see Anderson in CF every day because one of the things I think about is the "strength up the middle" adage in baseball. Having BA's glove in CF makes the Sox a helluva lot better.

As for Griffey, I've always loved watching him play, but now he should just DH and pinch-hit. I was happy the Sox got him and bought the Griffey t-shirt, but I also couldn't figure out what need he filled with Thome being the Sox' DH.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2008, 10:53 AM
I like having Griffey around if only to force the Brian Anderson crowd to keep fighting from their back foot until at least April next year.

:smile: