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View Full Version : Quentin vs Hamilton Debate (from Jayson Stark)


Rockabilly
08-11-2008, 01:41 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21923

balke
08-11-2008, 01:46 PM
It really is a shame in my mind that TCQ wasn't invited to the HR derby. Could've made this a much bigger story this season. Two young players destroying the baseball for the first time in the MLB.

Rockabilly
08-11-2008, 01:47 PM
It really is a shame in my mind that TCQ wasn't invited to the HR derby. Could've made this a much bigger story this season. Two young players destroying the baseball for the first time in the MLB.


I totally agree Quentin should have been in the HR derby...

chisoxfanatic
08-11-2008, 01:48 PM
It really is a shame in my mind that TCQ wasn't invited to the HR derby. Could've made this a much bigger story this season. Two young players destroying the baseball for the first time in the MLB.
If he WAS invited, I'd have wanted him to turn that thing down. I'm glad TCQ didn't get involved in that thing. Just think, it could've potentially screwed up his swing.

Keep it on going, TCQ. With a division title, there's no reason that TCQ should not get the AL MVP award.

CashMan
08-11-2008, 01:48 PM
It really is a shame in my mind that TCQ wasn't invited to the HR derby. Could've made this a much bigger story this season. Two young players destroying the baseball for the first time in the MLB.

I don't think you would of wanted that. How many HRs does Hamilton have since the break? Don't most of the hitters struggle after that?

balke
08-11-2008, 01:53 PM
I don't think you would of wanted that. How many HRs does Hamilton have since the break? Don't most of the hitters struggle after that?

TCQ is too good to let that happen. Thus, more the reason he's MVP! :wink:

Domeshot17
08-11-2008, 01:54 PM
As a fan I really wanted TCQ in the derby, but afterwards I was really glad he was not. Look at how many players get impacted by the derby in so many ways. Guys take a lot of swings and have a hard time getting back into a real baseball grove. Not just Hamilton but look at how it impacted Abreu and many others. Carlos has natural power, he doesn't hit home runs trying to hit them, but he gets him because he is just an amazing pure hitter. It could have done some damage to the pysche as well if he went up there and did not hit any.

The one thing no one is mentioning right now in the talk and I hope eventually they do is that Quentin is the reason we are in first. How many games did our offense cost us in the first half and he kept us in the race almost single handedly.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-11-2008, 01:55 PM
Something Stark did not mention was number of game-winning hits. I believe CQ has the most in the majors. And when a team is in a pennant race, what better stat is that?

wxkid23
08-11-2008, 01:56 PM
7HR since the break for Hamilton

TDog
08-11-2008, 01:57 PM
The rest of August and especially September will have a lot to say as to who wins the AL MVP, of course. The fact that Jayson Stark seems to be talking about Quentin as the strongest MVP candidate at this point reflects that it isn't just White Sox fans noticing his contributions.

If Texas continues to hover around .500, Hamilton won't get much consideration, certainly not much first-place consideration. There is a difference between Player of the Year and MVP, although some don't make it. I have no doubt that if the White Sox win their division and Quentin leads the American League in home runs, Quentin will win the MVP. If Quentin finishes second to Hamilton in home runs and the Sox win the Central, Quentin would be the leading MVP candidate.

But the fact that Dye also was named as a legitimate candidate points to the truth that Quentin isn't carrying the team on his broad shoulders the way Dick Allen almost did in 1972. Even Allen was supported by a career-best year from Carlos May and some incredible pitching from Wilbur Wood and a strong young bullpen.

CHISOXFAN13
08-11-2008, 01:59 PM
If he WAS invited, I'd have wanted him to turn that thing down. I'm glad TCQ didn't get involved in that thing. Just think, it could've potentially screwed up his swing.

Keep it on going, TCQ. With a division title, there's no reason that TCQ should not get the AL MVP award.

I'm not sure he could really screw up his swing because he swings so damn hard on every pitch. But I tend to agree that I'm not upset that he didn't participate.

munchman33
08-11-2008, 02:00 PM
I don't think you would of wanted that. How many HRs does Hamilton have since the break? Don't most of the hitters struggle after that?

It's a complete myth. Lots of hitters get invited for having insane first halfs. Of course they suffer in the second half.

Tons of guys have gone on after the derby to have monster second halfs. Remember Ryan Howard? What about that great Sosa/McGuire showdown? Did the derby affect their swing?

Sometimes guys just have bad second halfs.

oeo
08-11-2008, 02:02 PM
What about that great Sosa/McGuire showdown? Did the derby affect their swing?

You're seriously using the juicers as an example?

Hamilton certainly hasn't lost his power, but he's not the same hitter since the break.

If anything it's an excuse (and not a myth) because players have complained that it screwed up their swings.

hi im skot
08-11-2008, 02:04 PM
It's a complete myth. Lots of hitters get invited for having insane first halfs. Of course they suffer in the second half.

Tons of guys have gone on after the derby to have monster second halfs. Remember Ryan Howard? What about that great Sosa/McGuire showdown? Did the derby affect their swing?

Sometimes guys just have bad second halfs.

Jermaine Dye's 2006 season comes to mind as well.

CashMan
08-11-2008, 02:04 PM
Tons of guys have gone on after the derby to have monster second halfs. Remember Ryan Howard? What about that great Sosa/McGuire showdown? Did the derby affect their swing?


I don't want to talk about the past, I am here to talk about the future.

How did Abreu do, the one year? You get the HR swing going and might take awhile to get out of it.

Konerko05
08-11-2008, 02:08 PM
It's a complete myth. Lots of hitters get invited for having insane first halfs. Of course they suffer in the second half.

Tons of guys have gone on after the derby to have monster second halfs. Remember Ryan Howard? What about that great Sosa/McGuire showdown? Did the derby affect their swing?

Sometimes guys just have bad second halfs.

I think it depends on the hitter's swing. Sosa, McGwire, Howard all have homerun swings. They probably didn't change their swings at all for the competition.

Other hitters do not have homerun swings. They just end up hitting homeruns on "accident" from hitting the ball hard so many times. These players might alter their swing a bit for the competition which could screw up their mechanics for the second half.

In those competitions you actually have to try to hit homeruns or else you will just be spraying line drives all over the field.

BadBobbyJenks
08-11-2008, 02:12 PM
You're seriously using the juicers as an example?

Hamilton certainly hasn't lost his power, but he's not the same hitter since the break.

If anything it's an excuse (and not a myth) because players have complained that it screwed up their swings.

SOME players have complained.

hawkjt
08-11-2008, 03:17 PM
All I know is that Carlos is ripping the cover off the ball again and so it has worked out perfectly the way it is so far. He looks strong and quick, still.
If the Sox win the division and he leads in homers, he should get it. If the Twins win,Morneau probably will get it again. Who else? Vlade? Maybe.
Right now, my vote is for TCQ.

Tragg
08-11-2008, 04:51 PM
If he WAS invited, I'd have wanted him to turn that thing down. I'm glad TCQ didn't get involved in that thing. Just
:thumbsup:

shes
08-11-2008, 05:43 PM
Wow, great points all around from Stark. I'm glad he touched on how RBIs are completely overrated as a means of gauging a player's offensive worth.

Dan Mega
08-11-2008, 07:10 PM
Wow, great points all around from Stark. I'm glad he touched on how RBIs are completely overrated as a means of gauging a player's offensive worth.

His comments overall were pretty solid. Every once in a while, a blind ESPN finds the nut.

FedEx227
08-11-2008, 07:20 PM
You're seriously using the juicers as an example?

Hamilton certainly hasn't lost his power, but he's not the same hitter since the break.

Pre-All Star

.310/.367/.552 377 AB, 22 2B (17 AB/Double), 21 HR (17.95 AB/HR)

Post-All Star

.271/.367/.565 85 AB, 4 2B (21 AB/Double), 7 HR (12.14 AB/HR)

So no, you're wrong, in fact he's had a better home run stroke (albeit smaller sample size) since the All Star Game, he has an identical OBP and a better slugging. How has he become a worse hitter, his OPS is on the rise, yeah his average is down but it doesn't matter when your OPSing .930+, he's doing exactly what he did pre All Star break sans a small, worthless drop in AVG which has not changed how much he's gotten on-base.

Mohoney
08-11-2008, 08:04 PM
While we're on the topic of HR Derby candidates scuffling, look at Lance Berkman's post All Star break numbers. .276/.402/.382 with only 5 doubles, 1 home run, and 6 RBI.

OmarLittle
08-11-2008, 08:29 PM
If the season were to end today Quentin would deserve MVP. His OBP/SLG/OPS are all better than Hamilton and he plays for a contending team. Hamilton has benefited quite a bit from playing in Texas.

Check out Hamilton's home/away splits:

Home: .347/.411/.662
Away: .263/.326/.457

beasly213
08-18-2008, 11:54 AM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=21923


Someone over there actually picked TCQ for MVP instead of Hamiltion because the award is actually about who is having a better season and not who has the better "story".

It's a well written piece and he brings up some good points.

UofCSoxFan
08-18-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm honestly floored that there is even a debate. Hamilton has only 17 RBI more than TCQ and has had something like 50 more chances. He's on a team going nowhere and lags TCQ on most every other statistical category.

If I had a vote, I'd go TCQ, Morneau, Dye, Youkils, then Hamilton.

It's a lot easier to put up numbers on a bad team when you don't have to worry about moving a runner along, working pitch counts, or taking pitches to give the guy in front of you a chance to steal.

RockJock07
08-18-2008, 12:19 PM
Its pretty simply, if the Sox hold off the Twins, Carlos is the MVP.

shes
08-18-2008, 02:51 PM
I fear that if Youklis keeps hitting the way he is and the Carmines somehow catch the Rays, he'll get the nod over TCQ.

chisoxer05
08-18-2008, 03:14 PM
Hey, new user!MVP sounds much better for Quentin then a home run. derby participant. I think Quentin is going to pull it out and get MVP.

DumpJerry
08-18-2008, 03:26 PM
The White Sox told TCQ to not participate in the Home Run Derby.

If things keep going the way they have recently, the Red Sox and Yankees will be fishing in October while the Rays, White Sox, Twins, and Angels are playing baseball. Youk. will not win the MVP if the Red Sox are not in the post season.

EndemicSox
08-18-2008, 05:13 PM
Its pretty simply, if the Sox hold off the Twins, Carlos is the MVP.

Pretty much, barring a 40 game slump from Carlos...