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View Full Version : The *Cough Cough* Wild Card


BRDSR
08-10-2008, 09:51 PM
I know some of the purists out there may not believe that sneaking into the playoffs via the wild card even counts, but if the White Sox win tomorrow they'll be (besides still in first place in the Central) tied with the wild card-leading Red Sox.

In all likelihood the playoffs will be the Angels, Rays, and two of the Red Sox, White Sox, and Twins. And, in all likelihood, one of those three teams will play the rest of the season at a rate below their season average so far. It just needs to not be the White Sox and I think they're in. 91 wins will do it.

TDog
08-10-2008, 10:09 PM
There will be more competition for the AL wild card than there will be for the AL Central title.

EuroSox35
08-10-2008, 10:10 PM
What's it matter, first off, the playoffs are the playoffs, but it's not like a team plays for one or the other, they just go out and win each game and what happens happens. Not really sure what there is to discuss

BRDSR
08-10-2008, 10:16 PM
There will be more competition for the AL wild card than there will be for the AL Central title.

You think New York will stay in the mix? I think they're fading, and fast.

TDog
08-10-2008, 10:34 PM
You think New York will stay in the mix? I think they're fading, and fast.

I didn't post anything about the Yankees, but since you inferred specifics, I expect the Rays to crash. Regardless of the teams involved, the wild card is going to be more competitive than the division title because there are more teams involved in the race. Standings generally follow a bell-shaped curve teams closer in the overall standings the farther you go out of first. The AL Central will likely be a two-team race. The AL wild card will likely end up being at least a three-team race. And, unfortunately, the wild card standings are arbitrary because the schedules for the wild-card contenders are likely to be quite different.

The problem with the wild card is that it is so arbitrary. If teams played balanced schedules, however, there would be no reason for division or league championship series.

DumpJerry
08-10-2008, 10:40 PM
In all likelihood the playoffs will be the Angels, Rays, and two of the Red Sox, White Sox, and Twins.
Agreed. The Twins will fade, however. Not only do they have a monster road trip coming up, but the are above .500 against only the Royals, Tribe and Tigers. Against everyone else in the AL, they are below .500 this season and during the monster road trip, they don't play the "easy" teams.

The Twinks' monster road trip is 14 games against Angels (4), Seattle (3), Oakland (4), and Toronto (3). They then come home for six games and hit the road for 10 games: Baltimore (3), Tribe (3) and Tampa (4)*.
After that, they come to play us and Kansas City, but it will be over for them by then, so the games with us won't mean much for our playoff position.


*The death of the Twins' season will take place here.

hawkjt
08-10-2008, 10:43 PM
I hope the Yanks are totally buried by the time we play them in NY the last ten days of the season.
I think 92 wins will get the Sox into the playoffs in some fashion. The Rays,Yanks and Red Sox do play each other a few times yet,I believe which could help the sox stay in touch. Gonna be a long 50 days.
Hang on folks...we are talking pennant race.

soltrain21
08-10-2008, 10:44 PM
Agreed. The Twins will fade, however. Not only do they have a monster road trip coming up, but the are above .500 against only the Royals, Tribe and Tigers. Against everyone else in the AL, they are below .500 this season and during the monster road trip, they don't play the "easy" teams.

The Twinks' monster road trip is 14 games against Angels (4), Seattle (3), Oakland (4), and Toronto (3). They then come home for six games and hit the road for 10 games: Baltimore (3), Tribe (3) and Tampa (4)*.
After that, they come to play us and Kansas City, but it will be over for them by then, so the games with us won't mean much for our playoff position.


*The death of the Twins' season will take place here.

We say this every year. No, they won't.

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2008, 10:44 PM
Agreed. The Twins will fade, however. Not only do they have a monster road trip coming up, but the are above .500 against only the Royals, Tribe and Tigers. Against everyone else in the AL, they are below .500 this season and during the monster road trip, they don't play the "easy" teams.

The Twinks' monster road trip is 14 games against Angels (4), Seattle (3), Oakland (4), and Toronto (3). They then come home for six games and hit the road for 10 games: Baltimore (3), Tribe (3) and Tampa (4)*.
After that, they come to play us and Kansas City, but it will be over for them by then, so the games with us won't mean much for our playoff position.


*The death of the Twins' season will take place here.

It'll be much before that, Dump.

LoveYourSuit
08-10-2008, 10:52 PM
Agreed. The Twins will fade, however. Not only do they have a monster road trip coming up, but the are above .500 against only the Royals, Tribe and Tigers. Against everyone else in the AL, they are below .500 this season and during the monster road trip, they don't play the "easy" teams.

The Twinks' monster road trip is 14 games against Angels (4), Seattle (3), Oakland (4), and Toronto (3). They then come home for six games and hit the road for 10 games: Baltimore (3), Tribe (3) and Tampa (4)*.
After that, they come to play us and Kansas City, but it will be over for them by then, so the games with us won't mean much for our playoff position.


*The death of the Twins' season will take place here.


I like your outlook.

I would like for our guys to just start hitting our stride in the process. Sort of in preparation for post season.

MISoxfan
08-10-2008, 10:56 PM
We say this every year. No, they won't.

Except when they did in 2005. And what does any other season have to do with this season anyway?

DumpJerry
08-10-2008, 11:46 PM
We say this every year. No, they won't.
How do you figure given their record against the remaining teams? They have only 12 games games left against teams they are over .500 against this year. They have 33 games against teams they below .500 against this year.

Add in the fact that they play like crap on the road where they have 24 games remaining and only 21 at home and you would not want to put your money on the Twins to win the division.

gobears1987
08-10-2008, 11:54 PM
We say this every year. No, they won't.
They've never sucked this much on the road in past years. This year's squad can kick ass at the dome, but loses everywhere else. The Twinkies will fade.

jabrch
08-11-2008, 12:00 AM
They've never sucked this much on the road in past years. This year's squad can kick ass at the dome, but loses everywhere else. The Twinkies will fade.

This team is much less talented than prev. versions - and it is first being shown on the road. They still have players built to play at home - but they are lacking players also built to do it on the road like Santana and Hunter.

I hope the next few road trips show what they are really made of.

DumpJerry
08-11-2008, 12:03 AM
The Twins come home tomorrow to a three game set with Yankees.

They Yankees are only two games under .500 on the road and need to win this series if they want to keep any hope for the playoffs alive.

chisoxfanatic
08-11-2008, 12:05 AM
The Twins come home tomorrow to a three game set with Yankees.

They Yankees are only two games under .500 on the road and need to win this series if they want to keep any hope for the playoffs alive.
Yep. I think they're gonna throw everything AND the kitchen sink at the Twins.

DumpJerry
08-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Yep. I think they're gonna throw everything AND the kitchen sink at the Twins.
I think the next three days will show the Twins just how much they needed to sign Johan and Torii.

turners56
08-11-2008, 09:39 AM
You think New York will stay in the mix? I think they're fading, and fast.

You would want them to stay in contention for 3-4 more days, because they're playing the Twins next.

BRDSR
08-11-2008, 10:27 AM
You would want them to stay in contention for 3-4 more days, because they're playing the Twins next.

True. But with 16 games remaining against the Red Sox, Rays, and us, they would really have to do well in those games to stay in contention much past the Twins series, no matter how they fare against the Twins. At best I see the Yankees going 8-8 in those 16 games, and that won't cut it. They just don't have a strong enough team to make up the remaining games on two teams out of the Rays, Red Sox, White Sox, and Twins.

areilly
08-11-2008, 12:54 PM
Someone remind me again, who sucks where? Whose record is bloated by an ability to capitalize on playing in a park more suited to their style of play? The Twins are 39-21 at home, 26-31 on the road. The White Sox are 39-18 at home, 26-33 on the road.

Cheap singles in a cheap singles park versus home runs in a home run park - there can be only one!

cws05champ
08-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Yep. I think they're gonna throw everything AND the kitchen sink at the Twins.
...and the kitchen sink would bounce on the turf for a basehit in the hump dome.

palehozenychicty
08-11-2008, 04:17 PM
If anything, the Yanks-Twins series will cancel out one team. Since the Pinstripers own the Twins, it's a good chance for the Sox to gain ground.

Foulke You
08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Someone remind me again, who sucks where? Whose record is bloated by an ability to capitalize on playing in a park more suited to their style of play? The Twins are 39-21 at home, 26-31 on the road. The White Sox are 39-18 at home, 26-33 on the road.

Cheap singles in a cheap singles park versus home runs in a home run park - there can be only one!
I have to agree areilly. I like to think positively about our White Sox this year and I really do think we're going to eventually win this division but I see it going down to the final week of the season. We can't poo poo the Twins road woes until we take a look in the mirror and realize our own team has it's struggles away from The Cell. We just seem to do everything 100% better at home. If the Sox start winning series on the road, we will finally put some daylight between us and Minnesota. If we were just a .500 team on the road this year we'd have a 4.5 game lead on the Twins. I thought the team was snapping out of their "road funk" when they took 2 of 3 in Detroit but they quickly followed it up with losing 3 of 4 to the Twins at the Dome and 2 of 3 at KC. We have some tough road games of our own on our schedule including 3 at Oakland (where we've historically had trouble), Fenway Park for 3 where the Red Sox dominate, and 4 at Yankee Stadium where the Yanks will be fighting for their playoff lives. I hope the Sox can kick it up a notch and distance themselves from the Twins but something tells me this is going to be a close race all the way to the finish.

Adele_H
08-12-2008, 03:39 AM
I know some of the purists out there may not believe that sneaking into the playoffs via the wild card even counts,.

And some "purists" may believe that Earth is flat and made of cotton candy.

NBA season is long enough, too. How about instead of 16 teams going to the playoffs, only 6 winners of their respective divisions go. We'll re-format the playoff series accordingly.

Come to think of it, why do we even need playoffs? La Liga, Premiership, Bundersliga, etc in futie award the annuel Championship to the team that finishes 1st in the standings - and that's that.

In some ways it's similar to the (losing) push to get rid of the DH. Hey, I agree, but under one condition: some hitters have to pitch too. Afterall, if a player's "completeness & versatility" is the objective here, then it's only logical next step... Game so, um, pure.

.

Nellie_Fox
08-12-2008, 03:53 AM
And some "purists" may believe that Earth is flat and made of cotton candy. Straw man argument.

NBA season is long enough, too. How about instead of 16 teams going to the playoffs, only 6 winners of their respective divisions go. We'll re-format the playoff series accordingly.Fine with me.

In some ways it's similar to the (losing) push to get rid of the DH. Hey, I agree, but under one condition: some hitters have to pitch too. Afterall, if a player's "completeness & versatility" is the objective here, then it's only logical next step... Game so, um, pure.

.Another straw man.

spiffie
08-12-2008, 08:49 AM
Come to think of it, why do we even need playoffs? La Liga, Premiership, Bundersliga, etc in futie award the annuel Championship to the team that finishes 1st in the standings - and that's that.
Exactly. They play 162 games in a year. Isn't that enough games to figure out who the best team is? Why do we insist on having it decided over 7 games instead of the 162 game marathon that already exists.

captain54
08-12-2008, 10:04 AM
Why do we insist on having it decided over 7 games instead of the 162 game marathon that already exists.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Fenway
08-12-2008, 12:41 PM
Yep. I think they're gonna throw everything AND the kitchen sink at the Twins.

Yankees are in BIG trouble as they now 9 behind the Rays and 5 behind Boston.


But injuries are hitting Tampa hard...

Longoria's injury leaves Rays' biggest hole yet (http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/article767345.ece)

whitesox901
08-12-2008, 03:19 PM
only 2 back in the wild card, a playoff spot is a playoff spot, its not as spiffy as a division title, but if you gets you into the play-off's so be it

credefan19
08-12-2008, 08:17 PM
i hope we can win our division, it would be easier than trying to get the wild card

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 12:39 AM
But injuries are hitting Tampa hard...


Tampa is paying the price for their monumental failure to improve their line-up (depth) in June-July.... I mean, have you seen what they've trotted out there against Gio Gonzalez tonight?

Injuries happen; best teams are able to survive them.

That's one of the biggest reasons Griffey trade was such a wise move for the White Sox (or rather, it will be once Griffey stops trying to go yard on every pitch, that is :)).

Ditto for keeping Juan Uribe over Pablo Ozuna.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 12:49 AM
Cheap singles in a cheap singles park versus home runs in a home run park - there can be only one!

Enough with this condescending bull****. There is nothing "cheap" about what the Twins do. They win because they're better coached & managed than the White Sox, despite our advantage in overall talent/payroll.

And of course the "cheap" wins out - because you can hit, say, a chopper in the hole between 3B/SS and leg out a 'Twinkie Special' practically off any pitcher, in any situation.... but to hit a HR, you need a fortuitous confluence of variables [in addition to the batter's skill alone].

kitekrazy
08-13-2008, 01:07 AM
Enough with this condescending bull****. There is nothing "cheap" about what the Twins do. They win because they're better coached & managed than the White Sox, despite our advantage in overall talent/payroll.


Their organization is definitely better. This was suppose to be their "mail it in" season after losing Santana.

I'm still waiting for them and thee Yankees to fade away. I wouldn't bet money on it.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 01:24 AM
Exactly. They play 162 games in a year. Isn't that enough games to figure out who the best team is? Why do we insist on having it decided over 7 games instead of the 162 game marathon that already exists.

Simplified answer:

(aside from the whole $$$ thing....)

it's about The Pressure, about the Do or Die, One Shot at Glory... it separates the true winners from merely gifted pretenders who may run a good "marathon" but can't "sprint" or "peak" nearly as well.

It recquires special make-up/skill-set to not only do well in the regular season, but also thrive in October as Curt Shilling, Josh Beckett, Jon Smoltz have done, for instance.

(Incidentally, that's why Olympics in general, and World Cup in Soccer are so effin' great. Weed out the chokers & complaceniks real quick-like)

.

spiffie
08-13-2008, 12:47 PM
Simplified answer:

(aside from the whole $$$ thing....)

it's about The Pressure, about the Do or Die, One Shot at Glory... it separates the true winners from merely gifted pretenders who may run a good "marathon" but can't "sprint" or "peak" nearly as well.

It recquires special make-up/skill-set to not only do well in the regular season, but also thrive in October as Curt Shilling, Josh Beckett, Jon Smoltz have done, for instance.

(Incidentally, that's why Olympics in general, and World Cup in Soccer are so effin' great. Weed out the chokers & complaceniks real quick-like)

.
You mean the John Smoltz who was on a team that choked every single October save one for all the 90's and half of the 2000's right?

hi im skot
08-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Simplified answer:

(aside from the whole $$$ thing....)

it's about The Pressure, about the Do or Die, One Shot at Glory... it separates the true winners from merely gifted pretenders who may run a good "marathon" but can't "sprint" or "peak" nearly as well.

It recquires special make-up/skill-set to not only do well in the regular season, but also thrive in October as Curt Shilling, Josh Beckett, Jon Smoltz have done, for instance.

(Incidentally, that's why Olympics in general, and World Cup in Soccer are so effin' great. Weed out the chokers & complaceniks real quick-like)

.

I'm confused. I don't see anything about "grinding it out" anywhere in this post...

:scratch:

areilly
08-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Simplified answer:

(aside from the whole $$$ thing....)

it's about The Pressure, about the Do or Die, One Shot at Glory... it separates the true winners from merely gifted pretenders who may run a good "marathon" but can't "sprint" or "peak" nearly as well.

It recquires special make-up/skill-set to not only do well in the regular season, but also thrive in October as Curt Shilling, Josh Beckett, Jon Smoltz have done, for instance.

(Incidentally, that's why Olympics in general, and World Cup in Soccer are so effin' great. Weed out the chokers & complaceniks real quick-like)

.

The 2006 Cardinals, 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, 2002 Angels, 2000 Yankees and 1997 Marlins all punch a gaping hole in your bolded statement. "There's only one October"-isms aside, it's really about who gets hot at the right time. The 2000 Yankees won 87 games; the 2006 Cards won 83. Those two may be the very definition of gifted pretenders.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 03:02 PM
The 2006 Cardinals, 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, 2002 Angels, 2000 Yankees and 1997 Marlins all punch a gaping hole in your bolded statement.



Except they do no such thing.

(Nevermind that some of those teams were loaded with talent, if not constructed with postseason in mind, except maybe the 2006 Cardinals. Secondly, after a slow start, weren't Marlins and Angels the best team in the majors or pretty close to it even in the regular season? But that's besides the point.)

What you may not realize is that peaking at the right time and even "getting lucky" IS - and should be - part of any kind of meaningful Winning....... especially in baseball, a game in which the element of chance is arguably the highest of all teams sports. For me, that's simply part of its beauty/fun.

You see it in oher sports, too, especially at the Olympics where an individual or a team with top results in various national & international competitions over 4 years leading up to the Olympiad, sometimes fall flat on their face in the end. And other times, they dominate as expected. It happens.

I know that's not what a lot of people like to hear. They want certainty, guarantees; happy endings. I am sorry to sound trite or whatever, but you don't always get it in life.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 03:04 PM
You mean the John Smoltz who was on a team that choked every single October save one for all the 90's and half of the 2000's right?

No, I mean the John Smoltz who's 16-4, with a mid-2.00 ERA lifetime in Postseason.

areilly
08-13-2008, 03:19 PM
Except they do no such thing.

(Nevermind that some of those teams were loaded with talent, if not constructed with postseason in mind, except maybe the 2006 Cardinals. Secondly, after a slow start, weren't Marlins and Angels the best team in the majors or pretty close to it even in the regular season? But that's besides the point.)

[cut]

What you may not realize is that peaking at the right time and even "getting lucky" IS - and should be - part of any kind of meaningful Winning....... especially in baseball, a game in which the element of chance is arguably the highest of all teams sports. For me, that's simply part of its beauty/fun.

Your "slow start" argument is more a justification for expanding the playoff pool than for anything else. There are really only two ways to get the Wild Card berth: tanking after a great start or going on a tear after a horrid one.

Honestly I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore except maybe that baseball is neat, and that some guys know how to win, and it's all about grit and heart and general grinditude, so I'm just going to duck out of the thread for a minute. All I know is that Al Leiter walked 91 batters in 151 innings in 1997 and that David Cone posted an ERA+ of 70 in 2000. Not my definition of talented winners.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 03:31 PM
and it's all about grit and heart and general grinditude.

Wha? Huh? We're definately not in the same thread cuz that's not what I was arguing.

But since you mentioned it...

Talent + grinditude + timing + Luck = winning

YMMV

spiffie
08-13-2008, 03:38 PM
No, I mean the John Smoltz who's 16-4, with a mid-2.00 ERA lifetime in Postseason.
Yes, and 2-2 in the World Series. Apparently he gets less clutch as the postseason wears on.

Adele_H
08-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Yes, and 2-2 in the World Series. Apparently he gets less clutch as the postseason wears on.

No, it simply means that his opponent was more "clutch" (I never used that word, for the record) and more "lucky" than he was. It happens.

And his combined World Series ERA was 2.47, not too shabby.