PDA

View Full Version : *Official* Jarrod Washburn Speculation Thread


thomas35forever
08-10-2008, 02:47 PM
Here's where to discuss the rumors of Jarrod Washburn to the Sox as reported by the Sun-Times today.

Rockabilly
08-10-2008, 03:16 PM
does anyone konw if Washburn is a free agent after this season or would we have him next year as well

thomas35forever
08-10-2008, 03:29 PM
does anyone konw if Washburn is a free agent after this season or would we have him next year as well
He's under contract for next year as well. I'd take him for '09 if we got him now and was successful for us.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2008, 03:32 PM
He's due around 10 million next year.

WhiteSox5187
08-10-2008, 05:35 PM
If he clears waivers I'd certainly take a chance on him.

Frater Perdurabo
08-10-2008, 05:36 PM
Is he better than Carrasco or Broadway? If so, OK. Otherwise, meh.

I'd rather have Garland. :(:

The Dude
08-10-2008, 05:42 PM
They keep saying on the postgame show that he has reportedly cleared waivers.... I'd take a chance on him.

LITTLE NELL
08-10-2008, 05:54 PM
Pass.

fusillirob1983
08-10-2008, 05:59 PM
His ERA has dropped more than a run since June 15th from 5.83 to 4.76 so he's clearly been better the last couple months.

This is based on 5 home games, 5 road games (TOR, KC, OAK, SD, ATL). I'd take a chance on him to at least prevent a bunch of young guys who haven't gotten the job done of late (Logan, etc.), count more on guys that have (Carrasco), and causing guys like Dotel and Thornton to thin themselves out and pick up the slack. Then Dotel and Thornton can be used more in the tougher situations or the setup role.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2008, 05:59 PM
They keep saying on the postgame show that he has reportedly cleared waivers.... I'd take a chance on him.

In exchange for...... ?

Maybe as a fifth starter he'll put up okay numbers. If he goes 6-7 innings, but gives up 5-6 runs, is he worth it? Washburn hasn't had a winning season in several years. Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Good luck KW.

DickAllen72
08-10-2008, 06:16 PM
He's under contract for next year as well. I'd take him for '09 if we got him now and was successful for us.
I'd go into '09 with the plan of Thornton being a starter.

cws05champ
08-10-2008, 06:46 PM
KW better not give up someone of too much signifigance from our minors because we are taking on $10+M in salary.

dickallen15
08-10-2008, 06:54 PM
I'd go into '09 with the plan of Thornton being a starter.
He doesn't throw enough strikes. A one or two inning guy is where he will be most successful.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2008, 06:57 PM
Jarrod Washburn.....Caveat Emptor.

DickAllen72
08-10-2008, 06:58 PM
He doesn't throw enough strikes. A one or two inning guy is where he will be most successful.
We'll see.....

Sockinchisox
08-10-2008, 07:24 PM
Gammons just said he expects the White Sox to try and trade for Washburn tomorrow.

turners56
08-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Washburn has been very good for the past couple of months...

He's 6-11 cause the Mariners absolutely suck. He was terrible earlier in the season, to have a ERA of 4.76 now is remarkable.

FedEx227
08-10-2008, 07:47 PM
He has Jason Marquis numbers. Pass.

Bill Naharodny
08-10-2008, 08:54 PM
Gammons just said he expects the White Sox to try and trade for Washburn tomorrow.

Washburn and Byrd both make sense, if only because they've both pitched well against the White Sox in the past, making us believe that they're decent.

:redface:

The Immigrant
08-10-2008, 08:58 PM
He has Jason Marquis numbers. Pass.

Yeah, and Marquis at least has the excuse of playing in a hitters' park.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2008, 09:21 PM
One of the talking heads (I don't recall which one) has suggested that the Sox could make a deal for Kenny Rogers.

oeo
08-10-2008, 09:30 PM
One of the talking heads (I don't recall which one) has suggested that the Sox could make a deal for Kenny Rogers.

I'd take him as a last resort. I'd rather they try to snag Washburn or Byrd first (preferably Byrd).

Bill Naharodny
08-10-2008, 09:33 PM
One of the talking heads (I don't recall which one) has suggested that the Sox could make a deal for Kenny Rogers.

A real Sox-killer, who's been real bad this year. But the price probably wouldn't be too high.

pczarapa
08-10-2008, 09:39 PM
Sorry, wrong forum

Law11
08-10-2008, 09:41 PM
The Yankees will grab him before we get a chance at him. they were trying to make a deal for him last week.

Palehose Pete
08-10-2008, 09:42 PM
The Yankees will grab him before we get a chance at him. they were trying to make a deal for him last week.

Or maybe the Sox will grab him because, you know, they want him, too.

hawkjt
08-10-2008, 10:58 PM
let the yanks have washburn...then grab Bryd. He has been very good lately.
I looked up the stats on these guys..both have been good of late

Washburn...9 quality starts in his last 11 starts
Bryd........5 very good starts in a row...ERA 1.75.

I will take a chance on either one.

turners56
08-11-2008, 09:42 AM
In exchange for...... ?

Maybe as a fifth starter he'll put up okay numbers. If he goes 6-7 innings, but gives up 5-6 runs, is he worth it? Washburn hasn't had a winning season in several years. Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Good luck KW.

The Mariners were asking for ALOT at the deadline. Since I doubt anybody really wants him now besides the White Sox, his asking price should be lower.

oeo
08-11-2008, 09:52 AM
The Mariners were asking for ALOT at the deadline. Since I doubt anybody really wants him now besides the White Sox, his asking price should be lower.

The White Sox are not the only team with starting pitching problems.

Besides, we should be looking at Byrd. The cheaper, better option. He's just a rental, he's not going to come at a steep price, and he's still postseason tested.

ndgt10
08-11-2008, 09:56 AM
fields + richard for Washburn, IMO

turners56
08-11-2008, 09:58 AM
The White Sox are not the only team with starting pitching problems.

Besides, we should be looking at Byrd. The cheaper, better option. He's just a rental, he's not going to come at a steep price, and he's postseason tested.

Byrd wouldn't be bad either, but keep this in mind: his home ERA is half of his road ERA. Meanwhile, Washburn's actually a better pitcher away from Safeco.

You're looking for the better option right now, because it is "win-now" mode. We can tackle the consequences later...

Besides, who's our fifth starter next year?

PaleHoser
08-11-2008, 10:10 AM
I'd rather have Paul Byrd. He always seems to give his team a chance to win. With the offense picking up he could be very successful here.

turners56
08-11-2008, 10:11 AM
fields + richard for Washburn, IMO

Yeah, let's give up half of our farm system again...

seventyseven
08-11-2008, 10:14 AM
The Mariners were asking for ALOT at the deadline. Since I doubt anybody really wants him now besides the White Sox, his asking price should be lower.

The M's really overplayed their hand on Washburn before the deadline, and the Yankees said forget it. I doubt they'd make the same mistake again as they look at $10M for Washburn in 2009.

We could probably get him for nothing if we didn't demand the M's pay part of his remaining salary.

oeo
08-11-2008, 10:36 AM
Byrd wouldn't be bad either, but keep this in mind: his home ERA is half of his road ERA. Meanwhile, Washburn's actually a better pitcher away from Safeco.

They're both changing homes, so why does this matter? If Byrd is a much better pitcher in Cleveland, does that have to do with the stadium, or his comfort level? I'll go with the comfort level.

You're looking for the better option right now, because it is "win-now" mode.Yes, and I think Byrd is that option. 1)Right now, I think he's the better pitcher. 2)He's pitched (and succeeded) in the postseason as recently as last year. 3)He's a righty, and I'd much rather stay away from 3 lefties in the rotation. Add in that he's off the books after the year, and he's almost too perfect a fit.

Besides, who's our fifth starter next year?I sure hope it's not Washburn at that price. Especially if we're paying Contreras...it's just not going to work.

balke
08-11-2008, 12:22 PM
I highly doubt Washburn is coming to Chicago. Kenny nearly blew a blood vessel in his brain having to pay Buehrle 14 mil per, 10 mil for a guy who looks done, while the Sox have Contreras already.... I can't see it happening.

spiffie
08-11-2008, 12:28 PM
I highly doubt Washburn is coming to Chicago. Kenny nearly blew a blood vessel in his brain having to pay Buehrle 14 mil per, 10 mil for a guy who looks done, while the Sox have Contreras already.... I can't see it happening.
Do explain how a guy with a 3.44 ERA since May 25 is "done".

Sad
08-11-2008, 12:35 PM
not sure what this guy would cost us...
I'd say give it a whirl otherwise... think he's due to start tomorrow against Anaheim...

Rockabilly
08-11-2008, 12:38 PM
not sure what this guy would cost us...
I'd say give it a whirl otherwise... think he's due to start tomorrow against Anaheim...

Washburn will be facing Garland....

balke
08-11-2008, 12:52 PM
Do explain how a guy with a 3.44 ERA since May 25 is "done".

Pretty much the same way I'd explain Contreras started out as CY Young this season, then reverted to his recent career stats. Washburn is a risk at 10 million dollars. He's 34 in 3 days and this will be his 5th of 6 seasons that his ERA was over 4. The Sox will put themselves potentially in the same spot they were about to get out of with Jose Contreras.

He would be the best option for the Sox as a starter, but when you factor in the money, I just doubt they want to go in that direction. Then again, it would be an immediately fill in for next season as the Sox will be looking for at least 1 starter.

oeo
08-11-2008, 03:35 PM
Pretty much the same way I'd explain Contreras started out as CY Young this season, then reverted to his recent career stats.

Washburn has tendinitis in his elbow, too?

Contreras was pitching in discomfort for weeks before he told anyone.

Zisk77
08-11-2008, 03:45 PM
I would think that kenny would send some modest prospects and eat some...maybe half the salary for next year not all of the salary. The M's wanted all the slary and prospects from the yanks before the deadline.

Which was prolly smart as money is nothing to the yanks might as well get some prospects. Now, after the deadline The M's don't want to be stuck with Washburn's salary but also don't want nothing to show for him.

Sox pay 5 mil. for next year whatever for this year and give them prospects equivalent to Horacio Ramirez trade and I bet it gets done.

TomBradley72
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Yeah, let's give up half of our farm system again...

Who gives a **** about losing Fields? By Opening Day 2009, he's a 26 y.o prospect coming off a .248 season at AAA, with a .236 career batting average over 415 ABs in the bigs. Along with that he has below average range, plays below average defense, and strikes out like Rob Deer. He has some power, but I don't see him as a "premium prospect".

In addition, we don't have any prospects to be ready to step into the rotation next year.

TomBradley72
08-11-2008, 03:51 PM
I sure hope it's not Washburn at that price. Especially if we're paying Contreras...it's just not going to work.

But we'll be paying two of our starters (Floyd/Danks) next to nothing...so we can probably afford it.

Gammons Peter
08-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Fields is crap, make the trade

turners56
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Who gives a **** about losing Fields? By Opening Day 2009, he's a 26 y.o prospect coming off a .248 season at AAA, with a .236 career batting average over 415 ABs in the bigs. Along with that he has below average range, plays below average defense, and strikes out like Rob Deer. He has some power, but I don't see him as a "premium prospect".

In addition, we don't have any prospects to be ready to step into the rotation next year.

Is Fields worth giving up for a 34 year old lefty who has a ERA near 5? I don't think so. If Kenny didn't budge to get rid of this guy for Huston Street or Justin Duchscherer, I doubt he's gonna deal him now.

With Crede and his back problems (meaning we will most likely not re-sign him), we have nobody to play 3rd next year. I really don't want Uribe to play 3rd for an entire season. Yes, he plays good D, but he also hits .220. Fields is still a prospect, he can still improve.

Daver
08-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Fields is still a prospect, he can still improve.


People have been saying this for two years, and in that time he has gotten worse. At what point do you accept the fact that he is a DH?

Beer Can Chicken
08-11-2008, 04:43 PM
I think I'd rather have Jared from Subway.
But if we don't have to give up much for him, I dont see how he could hurt.

turners56
08-11-2008, 04:46 PM
People have been saying this for two years, and in that time he has gotten worse. At what point do you accept the fact that he is a DH?

I've already juggled that idea in my head before. He could take over for Thome once the Sox part ways with him.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-11-2008, 04:48 PM
People have been saying this for two years, and in that time he has gotten worse. At what point do you accept the fact that he is a DH?

I don't think he can even DH, at least for the Sox. We already have enough DHs for this year and next, plus Fields is a K machine. He has made no progress as a hitter; in fact, it appears he's regressed.

Maybe all the speculation that Fields would be traded for a pitcher or key player was just that: He probably has no trade value. The only people who seem to value him reside on this site.

khan
08-11-2008, 04:48 PM
I'd rather have Byrd than Washburn.

Regardless, in ANY trade, if it means that Kenny would have to trade away the most overrated prospect who would have to IMPROVE to approach Dan Pasqua's MLB numbers,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Pasqua, well I'd be all for it.

Losing Josh Fields in a trade would be no big loss. There are many other non-fielding strikeout machines to be had out there.

UofCSoxFan
08-11-2008, 04:56 PM
Or maybe the Sox will grab him because, you know, they want him, too.

I don't understand this post. If both the Sox and Yankees put a claim on him, the Yankess have priority. He would either have to be traded to them or not traded at all. It's not like the Mariners would get to decide which team they preferred to trade with.

Gammons Peter
08-11-2008, 05:05 PM
I don't understand this post. If both the Sox and Yankees put a claim on him, the Yankess have priority. He would either have to be traded to them or not traded at all. It's not like the Mariners would get to decide which team they preferred to trade with.


Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't waiver order based on last years record??

Law11
08-11-2008, 05:06 PM
Thats what I posted early on. I thought the way waivers worked the Yankees would have priority over him because of team record this year. They could grab him before we get a chance to.

And considering all the talk they had before the deadline you would think they would be likely to pick him up no?

Unless I dont have the right info on how waivers works.

Domeshot17
08-11-2008, 05:07 PM
People have been saying this for two years, and in that time he has gotten worse. At what point do you accept the fact that he is a DH?

See, I am one of the people that think he can still improve and here is why. I don't think he will ever be GREAT with the glove any means, deff not Uribe or Crede. But The biggest things he needs to improve are (1) Footwork (2) Soft Hands and Reaction and (3) Adjusting to the speed of the game (which also means confidence). The way we butcher prospects in the minors, I think he can improve as he adjusts to the speed of the game. I think the footwork will eventually come around because he was in such a footwork heavy position in college.

For me, I have always said we need to give him 1 Crede Free year. 1 year of being totally relaxed and knowing the position is here. 1 year where he doesn't freak out over an error. He has a gun for an arm, and I think if he can get his confidence up he might just come around and be servicable.

Daver
08-11-2008, 05:11 PM
See, I am one of the people that think he can still improve and here is why. I don't think he will ever be GREAT with the glove any means, deff not Uribe or Crede. But The biggest things he needs to improve are (1) Footwork (2) Soft Hands and Reaction and (3) Adjusting to the speed of the game (which also means confidence). The way we butcher prospects in the minors, I think he can improve as he adjusts to the speed of the game. I think the footwork will eventually come around because he was in such a footwork heavy position in college.

For me, I have always said we need to give him 1 Crede Free year. 1 year of being totally relaxed and knowing the position is here. 1 year where he doesn't freak out over an error. He has a gun for an arm, and I think if he can get his confidence up he might just come around and be servicable.

1. You can't teach reaction time, you either have it or you don't, he doesn't have it.

2. If he starts the season struggling at the plate the team is going to sit him down ala Brian Anderson, they do not have the patience to let a player adjust.

3. I think the best offer that Joe Crede is going to get is arbitration from the White Sox.

khan
08-11-2008, 05:14 PM
Though I'm newly-registered here, I've been reading this Josh Fields B.S. for years.

He's a 26 year old who can't catch a cold, and can't keep himself from striking out. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he NEVER WILL. He simply isn't good enough, and if he were, Crede would have been long gone. If he were worth anything, there's NO WAY Uribe would be starting now.

I think most Sox fans know this, and I think Kenny knows this, too. This is why Josh Fields and his mediocre defense and his 150 strikeout potential are riding the bus in Charlotte, not helping a 1st place team win the division. I fully expect Fields to be gone this offseason.

dwalteroo
08-11-2008, 05:30 PM
I'd rather have Byrd than Washburn.


I'd rather have Byrd too. His numbers over the past month have been impressive.

Optipessimism
08-11-2008, 05:49 PM
Though I'm newly-registered here, I've been reading this Josh Fields B.S. for years.

He's a 26 year old who can't catch a cold, and can't keep himself from striking out. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he NEVER WILL. He simply isn't good enough, and if he were, Crede would have been long gone. If he were worth anything, there's NO WAY Uribe would be starting now.

I think most Sox fans know this, and I think Kenny knows this, too. This is why Josh Fields and his mediocre defense and his 150 strikeout potential are riding the bus in Charlotte, not helping a 1st place team win the division. I fully expect Fields to be gone this offseason.

This is the same reactionary bull**** that for some reason always finds its way onto this board.

Most Sox fans know what? That he's not anywhere near as good defensively as Crede and Uribe? No ****, but that doesn't mean he's worthless.

Last year Josh struggled badly starting out in Charlotte but rebounded to hit .283/.394 with 10 HR while improving his BB/K ratio. Then he goes up
to Chicago and hits 23 HR batting .244/.308 in his rookie season. You don't just give up on a guy who does that. Does he K a lot? Yes, and he will continue to do so. But there's no reason to believe he won't improve on his K/BB ratio in the future. This year has been all but lost on him due to injuries, demotions, and lack of playing time, but he still has a bright future as a hitter meaning you don't give up on him for some scrub like Jarrod Washburn or Paul Byrd. If he's gone in the offseason it's because we got a good player back, not mediocrity or worse.

Anyone who thinks Josh Fields is worthless knows absolutely nothing about baseball whatsoever. They don't grow on trees, and if they did, Josh wouldn't be the best position player we have on the farm right now.

Daver
08-11-2008, 05:54 PM
Anyone who thinks Josh Fields is worthless knows absolutely nothing about baseball whatsoever. They don't grow on trees, and if they did, Josh wouldn't be the best position player we have on the farm right now.

The problem still remains the only position he should ever play is 1st base or DH.

Optipessimism
08-11-2008, 05:54 PM
1. You can't teach reaction time, you either have it or you don't, he doesn't have it.

2. If he starts the season struggling at the plate the team is going to sit him down ala Brian Anderson, they do not have the patience to let a player adjust.

3. I think the best offer that Joe Crede is going to get is arbitration from the White Sox.
I'm starting to think this might be a possibility, although the FA market for 3B next year is very, very weak. Hank Blalock (injury history) and Casey Blake I believe are the best options, so I could see some team caving and offering 3 years for Joe. Adrian Beltre via trade is probably going to be the best option available.

Optipessimism
08-11-2008, 05:55 PM
The problem still remains the only position he should ever play is 1st base or DH.
That's fine, then trade him. I have no problem dealing Josh, but when/if we do it, I want someone who is actually good in return.

AWhiteSoxinNJ
08-11-2008, 06:16 PM
Hopefully we can get Beltre along with Washburn. Would kill two birds with one stone.

turners56
08-11-2008, 06:20 PM
Hopefully we can get Beltre along with Washburn. Would kill two birds with one stone.

And drive our salary to $140 million...

Optipessimism
08-11-2008, 06:23 PM
Hopefully we can get Beltre along with Washburn. Would kill two birds with one stone.
The way waivers work, if the Sox put a player on waivers the team with the worst record in the AL would select first, all the way up to the best record in the AL, and then from there it would go the same way with the NL. Because Seattle is the worst team in the AL, they'd get first pick so we'd have no trouble at all getting a player on our 40-man roster over to them, as all Seattle would have to do is make a claim.

The problem though is getting one of Seattle's players all the way up to us without a claim, and at the very least, I can't see Beltre getting past Minny.

TDog
08-11-2008, 06:57 PM
People have been saying this for two years, and in that time he has gotten worse. At what point do you accept the fact that he is a DH?

What do you call a light-hitting DH?

Daver
08-11-2008, 07:04 PM
What do you call a light-hitting DH?

I give up.

Josh Fields?

I_Liked_Manuel
08-11-2008, 07:23 PM
That's fine, then trade him. I have no problem dealing Josh, but when/if we do it, I want someone who is actually good in return.

What are you going to get for a guy that doesn't hit the ball well enough to DH and can't field well enough to play defense?

Optipessimism
08-11-2008, 07:41 PM
What are you going to get for a guy that doesn't hit the ball well enough to DH and can't field well enough to play defense?
He can play defense, he's just probably not going to get a real shot at 3B with the White Sox again, unless something drastic happens where the Sox lose out on everyone they target for 3B, including Crede. If they miss out on Crede, Blalock, Blake, and can't put together a deal for Beltre, Figgins, or a guy like Pedro Feliz for instance (if they look at him that is), and if they miss out on a guy like Chad Tracy, and if they don't take a chance on a guy like Dallas McPherson who should be available again, then I think they go with Fields.

Ryan Braun was worse at 3B than Fields was when he was playing there regularly last year, and he's adjusting to LF. Fields probably ends up there IMO. He has some speed to cover some ground, and although he gets some pretty bad reads out there, that is something he can improve upon. Putting Josh at 1B or DH would waste his arm, so that's probably not going to happen anywhere.

Josh can hit, and you saw it last year if you were watching the Sox. He's not going to hit .300 obviously but he shouldn't have a problem hitting .260-.270 with big power as long as he can stay healthy and comfortable long enough to learn at the Major League level. Last year was his first crack at the big leagues, and this year he's been constantly battling injuries. He's probably had some confidence issues too, even though he says he's taken his demotions in stride, because hitting for the type of power he did last year and then getting sent down has to hurt. Josh probably just needs a change of scenery, but don't look at this year's numbers as an indication that he's not capable of playing in the Major Leagues.

As for what we'd get for him, he'd probably be part of a package, hopefully for a #3 starter or a starting 2B, SS, 3B, or CF. I don't know who is going to be available, but he's going to have value to someone. There's not a chance in hell I'd deal him for a 5th starter though. That's just plain dumb.

FedEx227
08-11-2008, 07:55 PM
The problem still remains the only position he should ever play is 1st base or DH.

Yes. So to other organizations he may look desirable...to the Chicago White Sox, as they are currently built and will be built likely for 2009 with 3 DHs (Dye, Konerko, Thome) he has no place whatsoever.

champagne030
08-11-2008, 09:22 PM
That's fine, then trade him. I have no problem dealing Josh, but when/if we do it, I want someone who is actually good in return.

I don't know what Byrd would be under the new CBA. I would call two draft picks via Type A, plus a very serviceable pitcher for the remainder of this year a very good return.

That said, and I don't agree with it, I doubt we deal Fields within the division at this point.

khan
08-11-2008, 09:32 PM
Most Sox fans know what? That he's not anywhere near as good defensively as Crede and Uribe? No ****, but that doesn't mean he's worthless.
Look, if he could even catch half-assed, he'd be out in LF, the dumping ground for every slick-hitting, fielding-adverse player in the minors. Remember Carlos Lee and his conversion from a 3B to a LF? Yeah, I thought so..


Last year Josh struggled badly starting out in Charlotte but rebounded to hit .283/.394 with 10 HR while improving his BB/K ratio. Then he goes up to Chicago and hits 23 HR batting .244/.308 in his rookie season. You don't just give up on a guy who does that.
Sure. What you do is trade him away before the rest of the world figures out that he can't catch, and that he'd be lucky to have Dan Pasqua-like numbers in the Bigs. See, what the rest of MLB will scout his .244 average, and learn how to turn it into a .224 or .204 average.


Does he K a lot? Yes, and he will continue to do so. But there's no reason to believe he won't improve on his K/BB ratio in the future.
There is PLENTY of reason to believe that he'll continue to be a strikeout machine: His middling numbers in Charlotte, even when he became healthy. A .248 average in a bandbox? I don't care HOW hurt you are, if you're really a Golden God who's MLB-bound. He had all year to work on his strike zone recognition, and it hasn't improved one iota this year.


This year has been all but lost on him due to injuries, demotions, and lack of playing time, but he still has a bright future as a hitter meaning you don't give up on him for some scrub like Jarrod Washburn or Paul Byrd. If he's gone in the offseason it's because we got a good player back, not mediocrity or worse.
I agree: Trade him. IMO, a middling pitcher like Washburn or Byrd will do more for our SOX in terms of winning in 2008 than a .248 AAA hitter EVER will in this or any future season. This, unless Kenny can find a GM dumb enough to take a .248 AAA hitter off our hands. [As an aside, Brian Anderson, as hurt as he was in 2007, still found a way to hit .255, which by my count is better than Fields has hit this year.]

Fields was on the Rex Grossman Plan: All he had to do was show a PULSE in Spring Training, and he'd be gifted the 3B job on a silver platter. Instead, like the buster he is, he crapped his pants. Hell, even Brian FREAKING Anderson showed more heart and more guts in Spring Training. Then Fields goes down to Charlotte, and plays like shyte. Exactly what makes you think he'll do better at a higher level? [BTW, Anderson hit .295 in Charlotte in 2005, which is higher than Fields has hit at AAA.]

They don't grow on trees, and if they did, Josh wouldn't be the best position player we have on the farm right now.
Yeah, a .248 average in AAA is SOOOO hard to find. :rolleyes:

oeo
08-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Yeah, a .248 average in AAA is SOOOO hard to find. :rolleyes:

Whatever. The guy hit .305 as a 23-year-old in AAA. He hit .244 in his rookie year. It's been a rough year for him (injuries, plus getting sent down at the start of the season), no doubt, but I'm not throwing the towel in on him.

I know our farm has been dreadful at developing talent, but this guy actually showed potential against major league pitching last year.

Daver
08-11-2008, 09:45 PM
Whatever. The guy hit .305 as a 23-year-old in AAA. He hit .244 in his rookie year. It's been a rough year for him (injuries, plus getting sent down at the start of the season), no doubt, but I'm not throwing the towel in on him.

I know our farm has been dreadful and developing talent, but this guy actually showed potential against major league pitching last year.

Baseball is not an offense based sport.

oeo
08-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Baseball is not an offense based sport.

Have we not just been talking about his 'weak bat?'

Daver
08-11-2008, 10:02 PM
Have we not just been talking about his 'weak bat?'

I was talking about the fact that he has no business playing third base, or do the rest of my posts in this thread contradict that?

khan
08-11-2008, 10:08 PM
Whatever. The guy hit .305 as a 23-year-old in AAA.
...And struck out 136 times in 124 games in 2006.
In 2007, his average in AAA was .283, while he struck out 60 times in 56 games.
This year, his average in AAA was a LEGENDARY .248, while striking out 77 times in 59 games.

Does anyone notice a trend here?


He hit .244 in his rookie year.
...And struck out 125 times in 100 games; Most of this was in garbage time, and I doubt that other teams had bothered to have a book on him yet.


It's been a rough year for him (injuries, plus getting sent down at the start of the season), no doubt, but I'm not throwing the towel in on him.
Boo FREAKIN' hoo. Be a MAN about it, Fields! Other, better players have been sent down, and they responded by doing BETTER. By LEARNING something. By SHORING UP prior weaknesses. Instead, Fields' fan club have used these "issues" as a crutch for a guy who has been getting worse rather than better.


I know our farm has been dreadful at developing talent, but this guy actually showed potential against major league pitching last year.
Yeah, he showed an uncanny ability to pump up opposing pitchers' strikeout totals.


Look, I WANT this kid to be better at baseball than he is. As a fan of this club, I want each and every White Sox to succeed. But Josh Fields plainly isn't good enough at baseball, and he isn't getting any better at it. At a minimum, I question his mental toughness if "getting sent down" is that big of a deal to him.

oeo
08-11-2008, 10:08 PM
I was talking about the fact that he has no business playing third base, or do the rest of my posts in this thread contradict that?

I never mentioned what position I'd like him to play. Although I still think LF is a possibility.

Vernam
08-11-2008, 10:23 PM
July 22, 2009: Seattle third baseman Josh Fields hit his 20th home run as the Mariners extended their lead over the second-place Angels to three games.


Okay, I don't expect that to happen, but the D-backs didn't expect TCQ to put up MVP numbers, either. Fields's stock is at a low ebb, and I'd hate to see him traded for Washburn. But such things happen in a pennant race. For the long term, I'd prefer for him to re-establish his trade value next year while playing for us. I think that's more likely than his regressing again. Unlike AZ's outfield, our 3B spot is likely to be open next year. So if they were dumb to trade TCQ for low return, we could be making an even worse mistake. TCQ didn't do anything remotely like hit 23 MLB HR before this year.

Best option would be to see how Fields does in a full season there. But again, a pennant race tends to trump what's best "long term."

If Crede had hit 23 HR in his first partial MLB season, they'd have locked him up before he ever reached arbitration.

Vernam

Daver
08-11-2008, 10:36 PM
Although I still think LF is a possibility.


I'll just shake my head and walk away from any further debate with you, I already saw that experiment once.

Domeshot17
08-11-2008, 11:06 PM
I'll just shake my head and walk away from any further debate with you, I already saw that experiment once.

Was almost as bad as watching Griffey jog around CF.

I don't get it, People complaining about Fields attitude when the Guy has been nothing but positive about everything. But we hear no complaining about Crede sending himself home from a rehab assignment. Then you read Kenny and Ozzie's comments, and it really sounds like Joe is milking it to make sure he is healthy when he hits the FA market and not reinjured. Ozzie when so far to say when asked how Crede was, "ask his agent". Crede has proven his loyalty is to Joe Crede and Scott Boras, not the Sox. He fed us a bunch of BS and played the media game for a few years. Hes a crappy offensive 3b (and yes you need runs to count, Ill take a team Manny offensive bats over the team of Augie Ojeda and Uribe D any time, the truth is, baseball may be a defensive game, but at the MLB level, baseball is a balanced game).

I am just very glad a lot of posters here aren't MLB GMs. Wanting to Sign Crede to a 5 year deal over 10 per for a guy who is at best a 7 or 8 hitter with a glove as good as maybe the top 6 or 7 in the league (and yes, I know Errors are meangingless but its the type of Errors. He isn't booting balls that are tough, hes botching really easy plays and routinely, and they started becoming costly before the injury). Add to the fact he is always hurt and it sounds like Ozzie and Kenny are questioning his heart and I'm ready for him to leave.

It's Dankerific
08-11-2008, 11:11 PM
That makes very little sense. I'm sure his FA money is skyrocketing as he sits on the DL getting "healthy". It would be monetarily better for him to play hurt, even if his numbers suffered.



Was almost as bad as watching Griffey jog around CF.

I don't get it, People complaining about Fields attitude when the Guy has been nothing but positive about everything. But we hear no complaining about Crede sending himself home from a rehab assignment. Then you read Kenny and Ozzie's comments, and it really sounds like Joe is milking it to make sure he is healthy when he hits the FA market and not reinjured. Ozzie when so far to say when asked how Crede was, "ask his agent". Crede has proven his loyalty is to Joe Crede and Scott Boras, not the Sox. He fed us a bunch of BS and played the media game for a few years. Hes a crappy offensive 3b (and yes you need runs to count, Ill take a team Manny offensive bats over the team of Augie Ojeda and Uribe D any time, the truth is, baseball may be a defensive game, but at the MLB level, baseball is a balanced game).

I am just very glad a lot of posters here aren't MLB GMs. Wanting to Sign Crede to a 5 year deal over 10 per for a guy who is at best a 7 or 8 hitter with a glove as good as maybe the top 6 or 7 in the league (and yes, I know Errors are meangingless but its the type of Errors. He isn't booting balls that are tough, hes botching really easy plays and routinely, and they started becoming costly before the injury). Add to the fact he is always hurt and it sounds like Ozzie and Kenny are questioning his heart and I'm ready for him to leave.

Daver
08-11-2008, 11:17 PM
Was almost as bad as watching Griffey jog around CF.

I don't get it, People complaining about Fields attitude when the Guy has been nothing but positive about everything.

Please point out where I made any such comment.

My comments have been about his performance, period.

The only comment I made on Crede was that the best offer he might get is arbitration, no other comments were made.

Domeshot17
08-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Please point out where I made any such comment.

My comments have been about his performance, period.

The only comment I made on Crede was that the best offer he might get is arbitration, no other comments were made.

Sorry, I was being all inclusive and I lack the patience to multi qoute. I was just joking about Fields in LF being about as bad as Griffey in CF. The thing about attitude was aimed at the Crede apologists bashing Fields attitude.

oeo
08-11-2008, 11:48 PM
I'll just shake my head and walk away from any further debate with you, I already saw that experiment once.

It didn't last very long. There were scouts that said he could be very serviceable with time. You're not going to learn a position in a couple weeks time.

Daver or the professional? I'll go with the professional.

Daver
08-11-2008, 11:51 PM
It didn't last very long. There were scouts that said he could be very serviceable with time. Daver or the professional? I'll go with the professional.

Whose teams scouts?


It didn't last very long for a reason.

oeo
08-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Whose teams scouts?


It didn't last very long for a reason.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071212&content_id=2323678&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Near the bottom, it says 'two scouts' feel like he showed the instincts to play the position with time. Let's be honest Daver, you were against putting Fields in LF from the start. It doesn't matter what he showed out there, your opinion wouldn't change.

Law11
08-12-2008, 11:52 AM
So are we getting Wasburn?

UofCSoxFan
08-12-2008, 11:55 AM
Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't waiver order based on last years record??

It's based on last year's record for the first month of they year. After that, it's based on current record for the current season.

balke
08-12-2008, 12:00 PM
Yeah sounds like the Sox have zero interest in Washburn. I wonder now though, if the Sox will make a big push from a big pitcher this offseason. Sabathia and Sheets will be available no?

If they missed on those guys though, the free agent class doesn't look that promising.

oeo
08-12-2008, 12:21 PM
Yeah sounds like the Sox have zero interest in Washburn. I wonder now though, if the Sox will make a big push from a big pitcher this offseason. Sabathia and Sheets will be available no?

If they missed on those guys though, the free agent class doesn't look that promising.

Sabathia will likely be a Yankee. Sheets, I'd rather they pass on. Great pitcher, but already 30 and does he ever pitch an entire season?

Rockabilly
08-12-2008, 12:25 PM
I would like to see the Sox sign Dempster this off season

oeo
08-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I would like to see the Sox sign Dempster this off season

Is he even a free agent? If he is, I wouldn't. Talk about a one year wonder. Not only that, his arm will probably be dead next year...I'm surprised he hasn't shown fatigue, yet.

Jimmy Piersall
08-12-2008, 01:13 PM
Hopefully Kenny looks to upgrade the rotation by subtracting
Vasquez & Contreras...Jose's injury might solve one part,but
trading Javy and his contract can be done.

The Dude
08-12-2008, 04:44 PM
I'll just shake my head and walk away from any further debate with you, I already saw that experiment once.

There is no such thing as a debate with oeo. All you get is just a lot of blabbering nonsense. :tongue:

balke
08-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Is he even a free agent? If he is, I wouldn't. Talk about a one year wonder. Not only that, his arm will probably be dead next year...I'm surprised he hasn't shown fatigue, yet.



I read a pretty good article on Dempster before the year started that proved he's actually an excellent starter. He had all the makings for this season to happen. His injuries haven't been the kind to hinder his career, just ones that needed time to recover from. His K/BB have always been awesome, and he's a +200K guy. I said to begin the season I hoped the Sox traded for him.

That being said, I think the Cubs will get him back.