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View Full Version : Horacio Ramirez is a Whitesox


Frankie5Angels
08-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Per Jesse Rodgers for Paulo Orlando

rustysurf83
08-09-2008, 09:48 PM
That's not a bad pickup if it is true. He seems to be more successful out of the pen...do we put him in relief and bump DJ, or have Ramirez start?

ZombieRob
08-09-2008, 09:48 PM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

102605
08-09-2008, 09:48 PM
Not a bad pickup.

At least KW is quick to trying to fix this mess. This isn't over yet.

CHISOXFAN13
08-09-2008, 09:49 PM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

Yeah, cuz I wouldn't want Soria right about now.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. People bitch and moan about us not putting a claim in on Bradford, but when we pick up a better option it gets blasted because he's a Royal.

white sox bill
08-09-2008, 09:52 PM
He's still fairly young (28) and a lefty. Has a winning record lifetime...hummm...

thomas35forever
08-09-2008, 09:52 PM
Good pickup. This would complete the task of finding a replacement for Carrasco if he's moved to the rotation. Still, let's find a decent starter too.

102605
08-09-2008, 09:52 PM
So what corresponding moves were made? Ramirez takes Contreras spot but someone mentioned Fields was sent down too and possibly Login? Who else is coming in?

Kogs35
08-09-2008, 09:53 PM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

former brave too

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 09:54 PM
Well...he's put up good numbers so far from the pen. He was solid as a starter for Atlanta. It's something at the very least.

Tragg
08-09-2008, 09:54 PM
We've used a lot of resources chasing middle relievers. Hope it finally works out.
Hope we didn't give a serious prospect for this guy. 4.53 career era. 1.48 career WHIP.
He's having a sensational year...just keep it up for 2.5 more months.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 09:58 PM
So what corresponding moves were made? Ramirez takes Contreras spot but someone mentioned Fields was sent down too and possibly Login? Who else is coming in?
I'm not so sure what the other move is. And I'm not 100% sure that Ramirez is going to the rotation. He might stay in the pen where he's been very successful this year.

102605
08-09-2008, 09:58 PM
We've used a lot of resources chasing middle relievers. Hope it finally works out.
Hope we didn't give a serious prospects for this guy.

Paulo Orlando. He has speed but he can't hit very well.

JB98
08-09-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm not so sure what the other move is. And I'm not 100% sure that Ramirez is going to the rotation. He might stay in the pen where he's been very successful this year.

He's probably replacing Logan.

oeo
08-09-2008, 09:58 PM
We've used a lot of resources chasing middle relievers. Hope it finally works out.
Hope we didn't give a serious prospect for this guy. 4.53 career era. 1.48 career WHIP.

We don't have serious prospects...no worries.

102605
08-09-2008, 09:59 PM
I'm not so sure what the other move is. And I'm not 100% sure that Ramirez is going to the rotation. He might stay in the pen where he's been very successful this year.

Yeah you are likely right. I guess maybe DJ Carrasco might be bumped into the rotation? I guess it is worth a shot, he has earned a bigger chance.

JB98
08-09-2008, 09:59 PM
We've used a lot of resources chasing middle relievers. Hope it finally works out.
Hope we didn't give a serious prospect for this guy. 4.53 career era. 1.48 career WHIP.

Do we have any serious prospects, other than Poreda?

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 09:59 PM
Paulo Orlando. He has speed but he can't hit very well.
He's young though. But I agree, his numbers aren't particularly impressive.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=31033

102605
08-09-2008, 10:01 PM
He's young though. But I agree, his numbers aren't particularly impressive.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=31033

He definitely has potential but we had to give up something to get something back in return.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 10:04 PM
He definitely has potential but we had to give up something to get something back in return.
I agree. We're clearly in win now mode and seeing as how Orlando wasn't exactly tearing it up in Winston Salem, I don't think it will be that serious of a loss.

Noneck
08-09-2008, 10:04 PM
Ok That's Logans replacement, now how about Linebrinks and either a starter or Carrascos replacement in the pen if he starts.

102605
08-09-2008, 10:06 PM
If Freddy Garcia is really hitting 88-90 mph regularly than I am jumping on the "Sign Freddy" bandwagon.

Garcia learned how to get outs when he lost his velocity a couple years back.

oeo
08-09-2008, 10:07 PM
Ok That's Logans replacement, now how about Linebrinks and either a starter or Carrascos replacement in the pen if he starts.

You're asking for some miracles. If Ramirez can work the 7th, then there's Carrasco's replacement. Logan should have been in garbage time for a few weeks now.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 10:08 PM
If Freddy Garcia is really hitting 88-90 mph regularly than I am jumping on the "Sign Freddy" bandwagon.

Garcia learned how to get outs when he lost his velocity a couple years back.
Yea, if what I'm reading on ESPN is correct, I'm all for it. I guess you'd have to use either Russell or DJ in one start as a stop gap solution in taht case.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-09-2008, 10:08 PM
Just getting rid of Logan is addition by subtraction, if Logan is indeed gone, which I hope is true. That would mean Ramirez replaces Logan. And Carrasco replaces Contreras in the rotation.

Another pen slot is still needed, a long man to replace Carrasco (unless Carrasco stays in the role, which means a starter is brought up).

My guess is Childers would be an option from within for a one-inning guy. But KW is probably on the phone trying to find a better option.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Just getting rid of Logan is addition by subtraction, if Logan is indeed gone, which I hope is true. That would mean Ramirez replaces Logan. And Carrasco replaces Contreras in the rotation.

Another pen slot is still needed, a long man to replace Carrasco (unless Carrasco stays in the role, which means a starter is brought up).

My guess is Childers would be an option from within for a one-inning guy. But KW is probably on the phone trying to find a better option.
If I were Kenny I'd be looking for another starter right now and I can't find one then I'd use either DJ or Ramirez as a starter and Childers or whoever as a relief guy.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 10:15 PM
as a Sox fan I can only appreciate a GM like Kenny who doesn't go down without a fight.

Big move, Boone was providing ZERO contibution from the pen for a good time now.

Noneck
08-09-2008, 10:17 PM
You're asking for some miracles. If Ramirez can work the 7th, then there's Carrasco's replacement. Logan should have been in garbage time for a few weeks now.

Chad Bradford should have been part of that miracle.

Brian26
08-09-2008, 10:25 PM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

Ramirez, MacDougal, Sisco, Bukvich, Carrasco, Dotel, ...
who am I forgetting?

Tragg
08-09-2008, 10:28 PM
Do we have any serious prospects, other than Poreda?
Perhaps in the low minors...that's why I was asking if he was someone we thought had potential. Last time we dealt A ball players to the Royals we got taken to the cleaners.
This guy we got wasn't much of a pitcher until this year...he had severe control issues. This year he's walking nobody. Maybe it's legit.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 10:33 PM
Perhaps in the low minors...that's why I was asking if he was someone we thought had potential. Last time we dealt A ball players to the Royals we got taken to the cleaners.
This guy we got wasn't much of a pitcher until this year...he had severe control issues. This year he's walking nobody. Maybe it's legit.


:?: who?

pczarapa
08-09-2008, 10:48 PM
Per Jesse Rodgers for Paulo Orlando


Nice pickup by Kenny

PaleHoser
08-09-2008, 10:48 PM
Ramirez, MacDougal, Sisco, Bukvich, Carrasco, Dotel, ...
who am I forgetting?

Maybe Bret Saberhagen can give us some innings?

Hopefully Don Cooper can work his magic on Ramirez too!

oeo
08-09-2008, 10:50 PM
Maybe Bret Saberhagen can give us some innings?

Hopefully Don Cooper can work his magic on Ramirez too!

Ramirez is having a great season...what magic needs to be worked?

And for all those people that keep crying about the ex-Royals relievers, we've gotten success from all those guys except Sisco. All we gave up for him was a back-up first baseman with no power.

russ99
08-09-2008, 10:51 PM
Nice job Kenny. Low risk, high reward move.

I thought we didn't have anyone to trade...

He ain't done either. There's no way Kenny chances the postseason on Broadway's arm every five days.

102605
08-09-2008, 10:52 PM
And for all those people that keep crying about the ex-Royals relievers, we've gotten success from all those guys except Sisco. All we gave up for him was a back-up first baseman with no power.

Are you so sure ?

http://www.mlb.com/images/2008/03/04/ePIcmILc.jpg

cws05champ
08-09-2008, 10:52 PM
:?: who?
It was the MacDougal trade for Lumdsen and Daniel Cortes(who is now one of their top pitching prospects).

102605
08-09-2008, 10:53 PM
Honestly, how did Ramirez clear waivers?

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 10:57 PM
It was the MacDougal trade for Lumdsen and Daniel Cortes(who is now one of their top pitching prospects).


Once again, I say Who?


The way the poster made it sound "taking us to the cleaners" I thought for a second Soria, Gordon, Aviles, or Greinke were at one point Sox farmhands.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Are you so sure ?

http://www.mlb.com/images/2008/03/04/ePIcmILc.jpg


MacDougal beleive or not was very solid 2006 for us.

Tragg
08-09-2008, 11:00 PM
:?: who?
The MacDougal trade.

Maybe the Sisco trade was the last one....that was a poor trade, but the loss of Ross Gload is nothing to lament.

oeo
08-09-2008, 11:07 PM
Are you so sure ?

http://www.mlb.com/images/2008/03/04/ePIcmILc.jpg

Did you miss his time in 2006? He was phenomenal for us, and just what the bullpen needed at the time. It was a good move.

russ99
08-09-2008, 11:07 PM
Honestly, how did Ramirez clear waivers?

As I said in the Jose thread, you guys have it backwards. Teams pass a large part of their rosters through waivers shortly after the July deadline. He cleared, probably up to a week ago. Players are also sent through in bulk too, so the Royals probably cleared Ramirez with a bunch of other players.

The waivers comes first. Then when a player is traded, he doesn't have to go through them again.

It's not like Kenny makes a deal first and then sends the player through waivers with his fingers crossed that no one blocks the deal...

cards press box
08-09-2008, 11:08 PM
Honestly, how did Ramirez clear waivers?

Well, the teams with the most to gain from blocking this waiver deal are Boston, L.A. Angels, Minnesota and Tampa Bay. After tonight's game, the Sox are 1/2 game behind Minnesota and 2 games behind Boston for the wild card. Consequently, at least for tonight, none of those teams could block such a waiver deal. That, I suspect, is how the Ramirez deal got through.

I too would welcome a Freddy Garcia signing if he is once again throwing 90 m.p.h. Freddy might be the most realistic option available. I don't think the Indians would trade Paul Byrd to the Sox and even if the Mariners decided to trade Jarrod Washburn, I think he would be a poor fit in U.S. Cellular Field. After Contreras got hurt, I immediately wondered whether (if ever) the Yankees would waive the white flag and deal Mike Mussina. I guess that won't happen for at least a little while.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 11:09 PM
As I said in the Jose thread, you guys have it backwards. Teams pass a large part of their rosters through waivers shortly after the July deadline. He cleared, probably up to a week ago.

The waivers comes first. Then when a player is traded, he doesn't have to go through them again.

It's not like Kenny makes a deal first and then sends the player through waivers with his fingers crossed that no one blocks the deal...


Is the waiver list ever made public?

JB98
08-09-2008, 11:12 PM
Did you miss his time in 2006? He was phenomenal for us, and just what the bullpen needed at the time. It was a good move.

True. The bad move was giving him an extension.

Hitmen77
08-09-2008, 11:13 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080809&content_id=3283634&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

Here's the mlb.com article on the trade. We'll see how he pans out for us, but at least he has the potential to be serviceable as a 5th starter. Best we can hope for at this point given the desperate situation of losing Contreras for the season and having no good options in the minors to take his place.

russ99
08-09-2008, 11:13 PM
Is the waiver list ever made public?

Nope - that's for league personnel/GM's only. In the case of the failed Giles to Boston deal, it was said he cleared waivers. That's the only time we get that info.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 11:13 PM
Well, the teams with the most to gain from blocking thus waiver deal are Boston, L.A. Angels, Minnesota and Tampa Bay. After tonight's game, the Sox are 1/2 game behind Minnesota and 2 games behind Boston for the wild card. Consequently, at least for tonight, none of those teams could block such a waiver deal. That, I suspect, is how the Ramirez deal got through.

I too would welcome a Freddy Garcia signing if he is once again throwing 90 m.p.h. Freddy might be the most realistic option available. I don't think the Indians would trade Paul Byrd to the Sox and even if the Mariners decided to trade Jarrod Washburn, I think he would be a poor fit in U.S. Cellular Field. After Contreras got hurt, I immediately wondered whether (if ever) the Yankees would waive the white flag and deal Mike Mussina. I guess that won't happen for at least a little while.


Conspiracy: The Sox threw this game to be able to make a waiver move. Was the only way they could find a replacement for Boone.

Moral victory for tonight.

Thome25
08-09-2008, 11:15 PM
True. The bad move was giving him an extension.

The White Sox should've offered the money they gave to Contreras to Garland. They could've possibly took the money they gave JC and threw in a little more to extend Garland instead.

DeadMoney
08-09-2008, 11:22 PM
Well, the teams with the most to gain from blocking thus waiver deal are Boston, L.A. Angels, Minnesota and Tampa Bay. After tonight's game, the Sox are 1/2 game behind Minnesota and 2 games behind Boston for the wild card. Consequently, at least for tonight, none of those teams could block such a waiver deal. That, I suspect, is how the Ramirez deal got through.

I too would welcome a Freddy Garcia signing if he is once again throwing 90 m.p.h. Freddy might be the most realistic option available. I don't think the Indians would trade Paul Byrd to the Sox and even if the Mariners decided to trade Jarrod Washburn, I think he would be a poor fit in U.S. Cellular Field. After Contreras got hurt, I immediately wondered whether (if ever) the Yankees would waive the white flag and deal Mike Mussina. I guess that won't happen for at least a little while.

Ramirez was probably sent through waivers and cleared within the last week (not tonight). Players are generally passed through waivers at random times, sometimes in large groups, as teams try to get as many guys through as possible.

EDIT: The waiver process is:
1. Get put on waivers

2a. Get Claimed
3a. Work out a deal with the claiming team/let him go to that team for nothing/pull him back

2b. Clear waivers
3b. Free to get traded to anyone

I'm not super surprised he cleared waivers initially though (especially if KC was trying to trade him before July 31, which many GM's would know about). His $2.75M contract (well, 1/5 of that) - which only covers his services for 2008 - probably attributed to it. But, as a 28 year old lefty with a 2.59 ERA it's a little surprising that SOME TEAM didn't take the chance.

Hitmen77
08-09-2008, 11:28 PM
The White Sox should've offered the money they gave to Contreras to Garland. They could've possibly took the money they gave JC and threw in a little more to extend Garland instead.

The Sox extended both Garland and Contreras during the same offseason between the '05 and '06 seasons. Garland's extension ended after '08 and Contreras after '09.

So, how would it work that they'd take the money they spent to extend Jose and use it to extend Garland instead?

What I don't remember is the circumstance of why the much older Contreras was extended for 1 more year (thru '09) than Garland (thru '08).

Regardless, the Sox had Garland signed through this season. They could have kept him for this year even if he was going to walk after '08. OC is probably going to walk anyway. The Sox gambled that they could live without Garland in order to fill our hole at SS and also free up $1-2 million dollars in payroll by making this trade....and right now it's looking like this gamble is blowing up in their face.

JB98
08-09-2008, 11:29 PM
The White Sox should've offered the money they gave to Contreras to Garland. They could've possibly took the money they gave JC and threw in a little more to extend Garland instead.

I was talking about MacDougal in my previous post. Trading for him was OK, because he helped us in 2006. Extending him through 2009 was a horrible miscue.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 11:33 PM
The Sox extended both Garland and Contreras during the same offseason between the '05 and '06 seasons. Garland's extension ended after '08 and Contreras after '09.

So, how would it work that they'd take the money they spent to extend Jose and use it to extend Garland instead?

What I don't remember is the circumstance of why the much older Contreras was extended for 1 more year (thru '09) than Garland (thru '08).

Regardless, the Sox had Garland signed through this season. They could have kept him for this year even if he was going to walk after '08. OC is probably going to walk anyway. The Sox gambled that they could live without Garland in order to fill our hole at SS and also free up $1-2 million dollars in payroll by making this trade....and right now it's looking like this gamble is blowing up in their face.


Garland only gave up 1 yr of FA on that deal, he was looking to one day bank on a bigger deal for 4-5 years. Contreras was signing what in his mind was going to be his last contract.

Tragg
08-09-2008, 11:36 PM
I was talking about MacDougal in my previous post. Trading for him was OK, because he helped us in 2006. Extending him through 2009 was a horrible miscue. Relief pitches are so hit and miss. The good ones are closers and there aren't very many of good closers. For a consistent bullpen, include 2 or 3 pitchers that you think could be part of your rotation in a couple of years. That way you actually have some good pitchers in the pen.
The Sox were so fortunatee in 05. Hermanson, Polite and Cotts - absolutely key to 05 were basically finished after 05

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2008, 11:39 PM
Relief pitches are so hit and miss. The good ones are closers and there aren't very many of good closers. For a consistent bullpen, include 2 or 3 pitchers that you think could be part of your rotation in a couple of years. That way you actually have some good pitchers in the pen.
The Sox were so fortunatee in 05. Hermanson, Polite and Cotts - absolutely key to 05 were basically finished after 05


What the hell is Polite doing these days, can't we give a kick at those old tires and see if he's got anything left?

Sure would beat the Wasserman, Russell, Logan revolving door we have going right now.

RadioheadRocks
08-09-2008, 11:39 PM
And for all those people that keep crying about the ex-Royals relievers, we've gotten success from all those guys except Sisco. All we gave up for him was a back-up first baseman with no power.


Did I miss success from Ryan Bukvich?

Thome25
08-09-2008, 11:39 PM
The Sox extended both Garland and Contreras during the same offseason between the '05 and '06 seasons. Garland's extension ended after '08 and Contreras after '09.

So, how would it work that they'd take the money they spent to extend Jose and use it to extend Garland instead?

What I don't remember is the circumstance of why the much older Contreras was extended for 1 more year (thru '09) than Garland (thru '08).

Regardless, the Sox had Garland signed through this season. They could have kept him for this year even if he was going to walk after '08. OC is probably going to walk anyway. The Sox gambled that they could live without Garland in order to fill our hole at SS and also free up $1-2 million dollars in payroll by making this trade....and right now it's looking like this gamble is blowing up in their face.


As we know hindsight is 20/20. The White Sox would've been better off keeping Garland and letting Uribe and Ramirez play SS and 2B in 2008.

As far as the extensions for Garland and Contreras go, The White Sox would've been better off throwing ALL of the money at Garland and extending him a few more years. (they could've added a couple years to the deal he ended up getting.) Contreras would've walked in this scenario which would've been just fine.

Extending an older pitcher like Contreras is going to go down as one of KW's few bad moves.

Mr. White Sox
08-09-2008, 11:44 PM
Do we have any serious prospects, other than Poreda?

When Gordon Beckham signs, yes.

Also, Chris Getz, who might be called up to replace Fields. He's a utility-type of player.

Otherwise, it's low-ball guys who have upside but haven't shown much statistically (Marrero, Martinez, Silverio, Shelby)

russ99
08-09-2008, 11:48 PM
As we know hindsight is 20/20. The White Sox would've been better off keeping Garland and letting Uribe and Ramirez play SS and 2B in 2008.

As far as the extensions for Garland and Contreras go, The White Sox would've been better off throwing ALL of the money at Garland and extending him a few more years. (they could've added a couple years to the deal he ended up getting.) Contreras would've walked in this scenario which would've been just fine.

Extending an older pitcher like Contreras is going to go down as one of KW's few bad moves.

I don't think so. O.C.'s been solid for us despite some fans unrealistic expectations of him as some kind of league leader in avg or one who never makes an error.

Also, Alexei was an unproven kid with zero minor league experience. I don't see Kenny taking a risk like that on SS or 2B going into the season. Remember, the main reason he got Cabrera is to not go into a season with Uribe and Richar in the infield again. Alexei's done great, but who knew that he'd even make the club before spring training.

Finallly, Garland's contract status would have been an unbelievable distraction to himself and other players, much like with Buehrle and JD last season. He had an awful 2007, and I doubt he would have equalled Floyd or Danks with the Sox in 2008.

I stood by the trade then, and stand by the trade now.

Corlose 15
08-09-2008, 11:51 PM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

You realize Dye is a former Royal right? And Dotel?

Not everyone who ever played for the Royals is garbage.:rolleyes:

RadioheadRocks
08-09-2008, 11:53 PM
You realize Dye is a former Royal right?

Not everyone who ever played for the Royals is garbage.:rolleyes:

pitcher = key word

russ99
08-09-2008, 11:53 PM
You realize Dye is a former Royal right? And Dotel?

Not everyone who ever played for the Royals is garbage.:rolleyes:

And the Braves too! For all three.

Braves/Royals/Sox fever. Catch it!

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-09-2008, 11:56 PM
As we know hindsight is 20/20. The White Sox would've been better off keeping Garland and letting Uribe and Ramirez play SS and 2B in 2008.

As far as the extensions for Garland and Contreras go, The White Sox would've been better off throwing ALL of the money at Garland and extending him a few more years. (they could've added a couple years to the deal he ended up getting.) Contreras would've walked in this scenario which would've been just fine.

Extending an older pitcher like Contreras is going to go down as one of KW's few bad moves.

I'd have to disagree. Someone else mentioned that keeping Garland would have prevented either Danks or Floyd from being in the rotation. I would rather have them in there because they are better IMO than Garland. Younger, cheaper, and under team control longer. Garland would have demanded more $ than Buehrle got and he isn't worth it. If there's anything to blame on Kenny it would be on the lack of making a move for a starter at this year's deadline. Even a pitcher of Washburn's abilities would be nice to have right about now.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-09-2008, 11:56 PM
Did you miss his time in 2006? He was phenomenal for us, and just what the bullpen needed at the time. It was a good move.

I remember that MacDougal. He was great. Be nice if he could get it together again.

whitesox901
08-10-2008, 12:00 AM
SO im guessing he goes in the pen and we either use DJ to start and/or use someone from Charlotte to start or relieve

oeo
08-10-2008, 12:02 AM
Did I miss success from Ryan Bukvich?

It was short, but yes, he did have a good stretch from about late June to late August. It may have not been pretty sometimes, but he was getting the job done.

Not sure what else you could have expected from him. He was kind of a last resort for the bullpen, and helped solidify it when it was downright terrible May-July.

oeo
08-10-2008, 12:08 AM
The White Sox should've offered the money they gave to Contreras to Garland. They could've possibly took the money they gave JC and threw in a little more to extend Garland instead.

Garland isn't worth that money, either. He's not much more than an innings eater.

No one was complaining when Contreras signed that contract. It wasn't until a few months later that things started to unravel.

But hey, this is part of spending money. For years, Sox fans bitched and complained that JR did not spend money. Well, you can't have it both ways. If you're going to take risks and spend money, you're going to get burned sometimes. Would you rather they go back to their cheap ways?

UofCSoxFan
08-10-2008, 01:05 AM
Can people stop automatically assuming a guy sucks b/c he is on the Royals? First of all, the Royals have virtually the same record as the A's at this point. Second, when you are a contending team, you usally have to trade with crappy teams....other contending teams aren't going to want to give you valuable pieces for prospects.

Other ex-Royals: Beltran and Johnny Damon. They do have some talent from time to time.

RadioheadRocks
08-10-2008, 01:08 AM
Can people stop automatically assuming a guy sucks b/c he is on the Royals? First of all, the Royals have virtually the same record as the A's at this point. Second, when you are a contending team, you usally have to trade with crappy teams....other contending teams aren't going to want to give you valuable pieces for prospects.

Other ex-Royals: Beltran and Johnny Damon. They do have some talent from time to time.

I don't think anyone here is saying that about Royals players in general; it's the track record we have when trading for Royals' relief pitching that folks here are raising concerns about.

SoxSpeed22
08-10-2008, 01:08 AM
He can't be any worse than Logan. Ozzie was right when he said that he has to use the best he can get in a pennant race.

doublem23
08-10-2008, 01:10 AM
Do we have any serious prospects, other than Poreda?

Why did everyone sour so badly on Broadway?

Didn't he at least earn a chance based on his limited work at the end of last season? I mean, no one needs him to come in and be a staff stopper, we just need someone to keep us in games every 5th day... I thought that was the book on Broadway, probably not top of the rotation stuff, but he could be a valuable 4th or 5th guy. We need that right now.

:dunno:

SoxSpeed22
08-10-2008, 01:15 AM
Why did everyone sour so badly on Broadway?

Didn't he at least earn a chance based on his limited work at the end of last season?He played well enough to merit a first-round pick. He also did a decent job last year when the season was lost. Let's hope he does what Brandon McCarthy did in 2005 and not any of those scrubs in 2004.

doublem23
08-10-2008, 01:16 AM
He played well enough to merit a first-round pick. He also did a decent job last year when the season was lost. Let's hope he does what Brandon McCarthy did in 2005 and not any of those scrubs in 2004.

When was the last time the Contreras/Richard spot in the rotation actually won a game?

I know Lance isn't tearing **** up in AAA right now, but he couldn't possibly be any worse, right?

Mr. White Sox
08-10-2008, 01:25 AM
When was the last time the Contreras/Richard spot in the rotation actually won a game?

I know Lance isn't tearing **** up in AAA right now, but he couldn't possibly be any worse, right?

I know AAA is a bandbox and all, but Broadway has allowed 23 HRs in 138.1 IP. That's 1.49 HR/9 innings, and that's a lot. Last year, Broadway allowed 17 HRs in 155 IP in AAA (0.98 HR/9) , so this is a major regression year for him.

For reference:
HR/9IP:

Broadway 1.49 (AAA)
Floyd 1.33 (MLB, 1st on the team)
Vazquez 1.28 (MLB, 2nd)

SoxSpeed22
08-10-2008, 01:25 AM
When was the last time the Contreras/Richard spot in the rotation actually won a game?

I know Lance isn't tearing **** up in AAA right now, but he couldn't possibly be any worse, right?The worst thing that can happen is if that spot becomes another black hole, ala 2003. We still got a long way to go and we just need wins whenever Lance takes the mound. As long as he can avoid the big inning, which was Richard's undoing.

Nellie_Fox
08-10-2008, 01:29 AM
I know AAA is a bandbox and all...International League parks (http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/general/facts/intl.htm#Cooper%20Stadium) aren't all that small.

Mr. White Sox
08-10-2008, 01:46 AM
International League parks (http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/general/facts/intl.htm#Cooper%20Stadium) aren't all that small.

Interesting, I didn't notice that. By dimensions, at least, Charlotte doesn't look all that small.

However, here is Broadway's HR/9 at home (1.79 HR/9, 80.1 IP) versus away (1.08 HR/9, 58 IP)

sullythered
08-10-2008, 01:59 AM
When was the last time the Contreras/Richard spot in the rotation actually won a game?

I know Lance isn't tearing **** up in AAA right now, but he couldn't possibly be any worse, right?
I think Lance could probably put up a 4.7 or 4.8 ERA with about 6 innings per start in the bigs right now. If Burls can bring it like we all know he can, and the two kids can keep it up for the next couple months, we could be fine with that.

I have no idea what to make of Javy, though. That dude confuses the hell out of me.

GregO23
08-10-2008, 02:50 AM
evasion deleted. I wanted Paulo Orlando to develop because he is the only Orlando that I know of that is professional and hass my last name! And woulda been on the white sox! Oh well lets go Ramirez!

Mod edit: Warning for language filter violation. Do not attempt to evade the language filters.

Lukin13
08-10-2008, 03:02 AM
I just hope that whomever gets the chance to be our #5 has the ability to go 7 or 8 innings if things are going well.

Nothing worse than having a youngster throw 5 strong only to have the bullpen implode.

Craig Grebeck
08-10-2008, 03:06 AM
I think Lance could probably put up a 4.7 or 4.8 ERA with about 6 innings per start in the bigs right now. If Burls can bring it like we all know he can, and the two kids can keep it up for the next couple months, we could be fine with that.

I have no idea what to make of Javy, though. That dude confuses the hell out of me.
He's doing that in AAA, I have doubts he'll do that in MLB.

Domeshot17
08-10-2008, 03:30 AM
All we need is Broadway to keep us in games. Give us a lead or a 1 run deficit and let the bullpen take over, its all we can ask of him. I think Poreda would be a disaster for a lot of reasons. The guy is atleast 2 years away from being anything in the bigs. I don't want to see him ruined (although, I think his future is somewhere between Thorton and Wagner, but his floor is below a Sisco). I don't want his service time starting early. I also think because he only has an average at best breaking ball and a really poor change he is going to get hit.

WSox597
08-10-2008, 07:52 AM
Paulo Orlando. He has speed but he can't hit very well.

Sounds like Geraldo Owens.

dickallen15
08-10-2008, 07:57 AM
All we need is Broadway to keep us in games. Give us a lead or a 1 run deficit and let the bullpen take over, its all we can ask of him. I think Poreda would be a disaster for a lot of reasons. The guy is atleast 2 years away from being anything in the bigs. I don't want to see him ruined (although, I think his future is somewhere between Thorton and Wagner, but his floor is below a Sisco). I don't want his service time starting early. I also think because he only has an average at best breaking ball and a really poor change he is going to get hit.

Have you seen Broadway's numbers? He's the AAA Livan Hernandez this year. His last 10 starts his ERA is over 7.00. He'll be fine, and someone else would be a disaster? Hello.

dickallen15
08-10-2008, 08:02 AM
Why did everyone sour so badly on Broadway?

Didn't he at least earn a chance based on his limited work at the end of last season? I mean, no one needs him to come in and be a staff stopper, we just need someone to keep us in games every 5th day... I thought that was the book on Broadway, probably not top of the rotation stuff, but he could be a valuable 4th or 5th guy. We need that right now.

:dunno:

You are going to ignore what Broadway has done this year and say he deserves a promotion based on one September start against the KC Royals last year, a team that as bad as the 2007 White Sox were, was worse? I guess since Andy Gonzalez had a few 3 hit games last year, the Sox should bring him back and let him start at 3rd.

Law11
08-10-2008, 08:10 AM
See ya Boone Logan..Another Royal pitcher..nice.

WHo cares where he pitched. Is he any worse than Logan..
Logan=Marte from 05

doublem23
08-10-2008, 09:15 AM
You are going to ignore what Broadway has done this year and say he deserves a promotion based on one September start against the KC Royals last year, a team that as bad as the 2007 White Sox were, was worse? I guess since Andy Gonzalez had a few 3 hit games last year, the Sox should bring him back and let him start at 3rd.

I just don't understand why a guy who was a pretty good pitcher for his entire career doesn't even warrant a look? I'm not advocating for him, I just don't understand why everyone's so down on him. I mean, if Josh Fields gets a call-up for Crede despite his year, what happened to Broadway?

I'm not saying Lance needs to be here ASAP, I just don't know why nobody is interested in him any more.

dickallen15
08-10-2008, 09:44 AM
I just don't understand why a guy who was a pretty good pitcher for his entire career doesn't even warrant a look? I'm not advocating for him, I just don't understand why everyone's so down on him. I mean, if Josh Fields gets a call-up for Crede despite his year, what happened to Broadway?

I'm not saying Lance needs to be here ASAP, I just don't know why nobody is interested in him any more.
Because his last 10 starts in AAA his ERA is over 7.00. He can have a look next spring, not in the middle of a playoff chase. The White Sox need to win games, not experiment with meat like Broadway.

turners56
08-10-2008, 10:01 AM
Horacio better say sorry to Jermaine once he gets here today. He nearly crippled JD for the season...TWICE.

If he doesn't, I doubt he and JD will get along real well...

Ramirez has been pitching in low pressure situations all year long. That's about to change.

He was in a playoff race with Atlanta awhile back where he won 12 games. He's been good in his career. Hopefully, he can be just as good of a starter as he is a reliever this season. His WHIP is 0.90, which is even better than Linebrink's. However, that's in like 25 innings of mop up duty.

turners56
08-10-2008, 10:02 AM
WHo cares where he pitched. Is he any worse than Logan..
Logan=Marte from 05

Except Marte's ERA wasn't over 5.

Vernam
08-10-2008, 10:38 AM
Horacio better say sorry to Jermaine once he gets here today. He nearly crippled JD for the season...TWICE.I read the entire thread before someone finally alluded to the central issue: How will Ramirez respond on Tuesday when Ozzie instructs him to throw at Olivo?

All of the obvious options for replacing Jose are yucky. I hope Kenny can think of a non-obvious one.

Vernam

...
08-10-2008, 11:03 AM
Horacio better say sorry to Jermaine once he gets here today. He nearly crippled JD for the season...TWICE.

If he doesn't, I doubt he and JD will get along real well...

Ramirez has been pitching in low pressure situations all year long. That's about to change.

He was in a playoff race with Atlanta awhile back where he won 12 games. He's been good in his career. Hopefully, he can be just as good of a starter as he is a reliever this season. His WHIP is 0.90, which is even better than Linebrink's. However, that's in like 25 innings of mop up duty.

He better say sorry? Are we two years old?

turners56
08-10-2008, 11:35 AM
He better say sorry? Are we two years old?

You know what I meant. There was obviously bad blood between the two. Why else would Ramirez hit him in consecutive games in almost the same exact spot?

white sox bill
08-10-2008, 12:48 PM
I would hope they both know it (JD's beaning) was business, nothing personal.

soxfanreggie
08-10-2008, 05:03 PM
I think his stats are good, but it's not like he's pitched in a whole lot in the majors this year. 24 IP in 15 games is not a whole lot. Once he hits 40 or 50 innings, then I think we'll have a better judge of how he has progressed as a reliever. He's a guy that's going to be able to come in and give us an inning or two and maybe 3 once in a while.

His stats like ERA and WHIP are much better, but if he were a "lights out" reliever, someone would have claimed him. I know they were talking on the radio about him possibly starting, but no way I see that happening this late in the game.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-11-2008, 09:50 AM
I wanted Paulo Orlando to develop because he is the only Orlando that I know of that is professional and hass my last name! And woulda been on the white sox! Oh well lets go Ramirez!


Sorry dude, but it works out great for me. My name is Horacio Ramirez and I gotta tell you it feels funny to hear Hawk and DJ say my name.

I got a few text messages yesterday from friends saying. "You've been traded to the Sox man!" :cool:

I just hope my namesake pitches good. Otherwise I'm gonna feel like Homer Simpson when his TV namesake character was turned into a bumbling TV detective.

turners56
08-11-2008, 09:56 AM
Sorry dude, but it works out great for me. My name is Horacio Ramirez and I gotta tell you it feels funny to hear Hawk and DJ say my name.

I got a few text messages yesterday from friends saying. "You've been traded to the Sox man!" :cool:

I just hope my namesake pitches good. Otherwise I'm gonna feel like Homer Simpson when his TV namesake character was turned into a bumbling TV detective.

Your name is actually Horacio Ramirez?

officerron
08-11-2008, 09:59 AM
I think his stats are good, but it's not like he's pitched in a whole lot in the majors this year. 24 IP in 15 games is not a whole lot. Once he hits 40 or 50 innings, then I think we'll have a better judge of how he has progressed as a reliever. He's a guy that's going to be able to come in and give us an inning or two and maybe 3 once in a while.

His stats like ERA and WHIP are much better, but if he were a "lights out" reliever, someone would have claimed him. I know they were talking on the radio about him possibly starting, but no way I see that happening this late in the game.

If he was a lights out reliever, he'd probably have to give up a lot more than Paulo Orlando as well....

I like the move. Low risk-moderately high reward.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-11-2008, 10:01 AM
Your name is actually Horacio Ramirez?

That's what it says on my birth certificate and driver's license. :cool:

turners56
08-11-2008, 10:05 AM
That's what it says on my birth certificate and driver's license. :cool:

You should take advantage of that one day...

balke
08-11-2008, 10:14 AM
Haha, maybe Ozzie is just pining for someone who will actually HIT the batter when they are instructed to, instead of merely throwing at them and missing.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-11-2008, 10:32 AM
You should take advantage of that one day...

Yeah I thought about that. But then I don't want to get called into the game because I'm right handed and no good at pitching.

nsdjoe
08-11-2008, 11:27 AM
Evidently the Tigers are interested in Freddy:

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63594

ajismyhero
08-11-2008, 01:18 PM
If Freddy Garcia is really hitting 88-90 mph regularly than I am jumping on the "Sign Freddy" bandwagon.

Garcia learned how to get outs when he lost his velocity a couple years back.

According to ESPN Freddy is only hitting about 86 mph and require several starts in the minors to work himself up to starting in a rotation - we don't have the luxury of that kind of time...

BleacherBandit
08-11-2008, 01:27 PM
I've missed the past few games. Has he been called into a game to relieve yet?

jcw218
08-11-2008, 01:41 PM
I've missed the past few games. Has he been called into a game to relieve yet?

No. H. Ramirez has not yet gotten into a game with the White Sox. He was acquired after the game Saturday and was in uniform for Sunday's game but did not see action.

cards press box
08-13-2008, 06:54 AM
Ramirez was probably sent through waivers and cleared within the last week (not tonight). Players are generally passed through waivers at random times, sometimes in large groups, as teams try to get as many guys through as possible.

EDIT: The waiver process is:
1. Get put on waivers

2a. Get Claimed
3a. Work out a deal with the claiming team/let him go to that team for nothing/pull him back

2b. Clear waivers
3b. Free to get traded to anyone

I'm not super surprised he cleared waivers initially though (especially if KC was trying to trade him before July 31, which many GM's would know about). His $2.75M contract (well, 1/5 of that) - which only covers his services for 2008 - probably attributed to it. But, as a 28 year old lefty with a 2.59 ERA it's a little surprising that SOME TEAM didn't take the chance.

Buster Olney just explained this process on the Mike and Mike show. Once a player clears waivers, then all teams can place a claim on him and claims can be made by reverse order in the standings. Thus, when the Sox made a waiver claim on Ramirez on 8/9 (and worked out a deal with KC), Minnesota couldn't put a claim on Ramirez to block the Sox' claim because on 8/9, Minnesota was 1/2 game ahead of the Sox.

KenBerryGrab
08-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Actually, once a player is put on waivers, the claims are made in reverse order of standings. If no claims are made, the player has cleared waivers and may be dealt to any team.