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View Full Version : Enough of A.J. in the No. 2 slot


BainesHOF
08-07-2008, 11:46 PM
With A.J. slumping and Ramirez hitting, it's time to install Ramirez in one of the top two spots in the order, put Cabrera in the other spot and drop A.J.

It hasn't been making sense to bat Ramirez so low in the lineup. Now with A.J. struggling in the No. 2 hole, it makes even less sense.

Konerko05
08-07-2008, 11:51 PM
You beat me to it. I was seriously just about to make this thread.

Put Ramirez in the two hole. I normally would be against a free swinger like Ramirez at the top of the order, but Pierzinski really isn't any better.

Pierzinksi only has 7 more walks in 74 more at bats. Not to mention Ramirez seems to be the better hitter with twice the speed.

Adele_H
08-07-2008, 11:53 PM
With A.J. slumping and Ramirez hitting, it's time to install Ramirez in one of the top two spots in the order, put Cabrera in the other spot and drop A.J.

It hasn't been making sense to bat Ramirez so low in the lineup. Now with A.J. struggling in the No. 2 hole, it makes even less sense.

Cabrera is totally mailing it in.

Frater Perdurabo
08-08-2008, 08:38 AM
I agree.

It worked well for a while, when AJ was hitting close to .300. But he hit .277 in July and now .238 for August.

In terms of OBP and AVG, Alexei has been better every month since May. In fact, since May, Alexei has walked more times than AJ. Don't believe me? Here are the monthly batting averages, OBPs and walk totals for Alexei and AJ:

.295/.313/5 vs .350/.303/6
.355/.381/4 vs .326/.347/1
.341/.354/3 vs .277/.300/3
.320/.320/0 vs .238/.227/0

Based on his better batting average and better speed, and approximately equal walk rate, Alexei should be higher in the order than AJ.

tonyho7476
08-08-2008, 09:36 AM
Yes...AJ needs to be down in the lower 3rd of the order. I think I like Alexei leading off, followed by OC. This is not ideal, but since Alexei is hitting so well, if he gets on, OC can do what is needed in the 2 spot.

Jim Shorts
08-08-2008, 09:39 AM
Yes...AJ needs to be down in the lower 3rd of the order. I think I like Alexei leading off, followed by OC. This is not ideal, but since Alexei is hitting so well, if he gets on, OC can do what is needed in the 2 spot.

Not sure if it's in Alexei's DNA to take enough pitches to lead off. That said, it would be nice to see OC shorten his swing some and get on base more as well.

balke
08-08-2008, 10:04 AM
With A.J. slumping and Ramirez hitting, it's time to install Ramirez in one of the top two spots in the order, put Cabrera in the other spot and drop A.J.

It hasn't been making sense to bat Ramirez so low in the lineup. Now with A.J. struggling in the No. 2 hole, it makes even less sense.

Ramirez had several chances to drive in runs yesterday and failed to do so. I think the pressure of hitting in the 2-hole will make him equally as effective as AJ. There's no sense in going RRR to start the game. You keep the lefty at the top. Alexei also has 1 more GIDP this season, so that's no great advantage.

jabrch
08-08-2008, 10:09 AM
Cabrera is totally mailing it in.

Going into FA, he'd have every reason in the world not to "mail it in". I don't see any lack of effort on his part at all. Results are a different story...but mailing it in? No.

tonyho7476
08-08-2008, 10:25 AM
Not sure if it's in Alexei's DNA to take enough pitches to lead off. That said, it would be nice to see OC shorten his swing some and get on base more as well.

I don't know...no one really fits the bill...I'd just prefer AJ move down.

Jerko
08-08-2008, 10:29 AM
AJ and Q are starting to hack at every first pitch it seems. Q at least is getting some results; AJ is only falling behind in the count. I also think (as stated above) that Ramirez may struggle in the 2 hole. I think he likes the "non-pressure" of batting lower in the order. I think we're stuck as is; OC sucked in the 2 hole and I'm not convinced Ramirez can lead off. Just take a few more pitches AJ!!!!!!! Pitchers are getting out of the first inning against us in under 10 pitches lately it seems.

WhiteSoxBlog
08-08-2008, 10:32 AM
I've always thought AJ was in a weird spot, but as Ozzie would say, say we move AJ, who are we going to put there? Brian? er... Alexei? Hellooo? I don't think Alexei would be right for the 2 spot either. We saw the last few games that a lot of times (sure, not all the time, but he's definitely come through A LOT) he's useful to have toward the back of the rotation to pick up some RBIs that can't be brough home by the middle-of-the-rotation guys.

PhillipsBubba
08-08-2008, 10:42 AM
I agree...I thought the #2 guy was supposed to show some plate discipline...doesn't sound like AJ.

Unfortunately, Alexei Ramírez isn't the most discioplined guy but he does disply an ability to shorten up his swing when necessary.

In have to give Ozzie credit...he's managing a one dimensional, undisciplined bunch of hitters and doing a decent job at it.:gulp:

Tragg
08-08-2008, 10:49 AM
The top 2 in the order are killing us.

#1 and #2 should have plate discipline....except in the minds of the Sox manager and fields staff who don't see that as a particular attribute.

jabrch
08-08-2008, 11:05 AM
AJ and Q are starting to hack at every first pitch it seems. Q at least is getting some results; AJ is only falling behind in the count.

It is MUCH better than the approach we had in April and May when everyone was taking every first pitch and we were going down 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 looking and never having a CHANCE to hit the ball.

I'm so glad Walker and Guillen went back to having hitters do what they do best (HIT) rather than forcing them to watch pitches just to say they are more "patient". Get yourself a good pitch and drive it - that's what we have done June/July/Aug - and the results have been pretty good. Go back to taking first ball strikes - we can go back to April/May.

Save McCuddy's
08-08-2008, 11:21 AM
Swish to the 2 hole. At least he can avoid the automatic k or pop-up that AJ runs into against every lefty with a slider. Rejuvenate AJ around 6 or 7.

hawkjt
08-08-2008, 11:37 AM
Swish is the only guy that actually works the pitcher ...ok, maybe Carlos also.
OC is a free swinger but someone has to lead off.
Swish/Jr ...both have a good eye ..whoever is in center..stick them in here.
Carlos is golden as three
JD...nuff said
Thome...heating up
PK...getting lukewarm
AJ ... better spot for him.
Alexei...low pressure spot..can hit and run.
Juanie...no choice.

jabrch
08-08-2008, 11:50 AM
Swish is the only guy that actually works the pitcher

Swisher doesn't "work the pitcher". Swisher takes strikes.

When Swisher is aggressive, and does something with strike one, he is a .343/.584 hitter on his career.

When he watches strike one go by, he is a .213/.379 hitter.

When he watches ball one go by, he is a .274/.530 hitter.

At no count is Swisher a better hitter than he is at 0-0. He walks later in the counts, but his average goes down and his SLG% goes down.

I have no problem with Swisher taking BALLS. But the problem is pitchers have seen enough of him to know he takes EVERYTHING. Stop taking strike one over the heart of the plate. When you do, you are almost assuring yourself that you will have watched the best pitch you are going to get in the AB go right by you.

jabrch
08-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Swish to the 2 hole. At least he can avoid the automatic k or pop-up that AJ runs into against every lefty with a slider. Rejuvenate AJ around 6 or 7.

Just for fun

AJ vs LHP this year
.292/.309/.449

AJ vs RHP this year
.287/.327/.419

I don't see how he is an automatic out vs every lefty with a slider given that he has hit .292 against LHP.

turners56
08-08-2008, 12:14 PM
A.J. in the two hole is fine. Cabrera in the leadoff spot is not. A.J. actually has a higher OBP than OC, and OC is leading off...

russ99
08-08-2008, 01:14 PM
Going into FA, he'd have every reason in the world not to "mail it in". I don't see any lack of effort on his part at all. Results are a different story...but mailing it in? No.

And I don't see a fall-off in results either.

O.C. hit .240 most of the season, he's now close to .270. I expect him to get around his usual .285 - .290 average before the end of the season.

JB98
08-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Leave the lineup alone. Our pitching staff, not the offense, is the problem.

turners56
08-08-2008, 03:01 PM
And I don't see a fall-off in results either.

O.C. hit .240 most of the season, he's now close to .270. I expect him to get around his usual .285 - .290 average before the end of the season.

He's a career .280 hitter having a down year. OC is not an annually .300 hitter.

Save McCuddy's
08-09-2008, 02:16 PM
Just for fun

AJ vs LHP this year
.292/.309/.449

AJ vs RHP this year
.287/.327/.419

I don't see how he is an automatic out vs every lefty with a slider given that he has hit .292 against LHP.

Must just be perception on my part or recent disappointments that are clouding my assessment. Numbers never lie.