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View Full Version : How long will we put up with Hawk's Twins love?


Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 07:11 AM
It's disgusting. He needs to be sitting next to Blyleven working games in that ****hole stadium. For someone who is often characterized by his defenders as "a homer just like me!", his defeatist attitude (during Twins games in particular) is horrifying.

Did he really say Carlos Gomez has the potential to be the best offensive player in the league? What league? Perhaps if he removed his lips from Ron Gardenhire's ass he'd see that we have a guy named Carlos who actually has that kind of potential.

He has become a P.R. guy for the Twins. I fear that his perception of the Twins as "invincible" is becoming organizational. We must get over this belief that the Twins can do no wrong. Hell, they just traded Johan Santana for absolutely nothing and we still think they are the best organization in baseball.

The sooner Hawk is gone, the better.

doublem23
08-01-2008, 07:13 AM
The Twins ****ing own us, especially in that dump of a park.

To sit there and watch the bullpen allow 7 runs in 2 innings and pretend like everything is OK, would be a travesty, IMO.

Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 07:26 AM
The Twins ****ing own us, especially in that dump of a park.

To sit there and watch the bullpen allow 7 runs in 2 innings and pretend like everything is OK, would be a travesty, IMO.
I don't want him to pretend everything is OK. I want him to broadcast baseball games. His attitude even before the Kubel HR was disgusting. He is disrespecting our organization. Slapping a label upon Carlos Gomez like that is a prime example. If he's going to be handing out ridiculous, hyperbolic praise, do it to our players.

oeo
08-01-2008, 07:30 AM
I don't want him to pretend everything is OK. I want him to broadcast baseball games. His attitude even before the Kubel HR was disgusting. He is disrespecting our organization. Slapping a label upon Carlos Gomez like that is a prime example. If he's going to be handing out ridiculous, hyperbolic praise, do it to our players.

It's our whole organization. We need to stop praising these ****ers and start hating them, like they obviously hate us.

Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 07:32 AM
It's our whole organization. We need to stop praising these ****ers and start hating them, like they obviously hate us.
Absolutely. For the first time in my life I want Ozzie to come out and say something controversial. I want him to say, "**** them. We are better than them and we will beat them. **** them."

We play scared against them. Hawk's attitude is indicative of our entire organization and I am sick of it.

kraut83
08-01-2008, 07:38 AM
This probably isn't the case, but it almost seems like the team expects to lose whenever they go up there.

Hawk doesn't limit the opponents ass kissing to the Twins, but it's over the top with them.

Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 07:41 AM
.256/.289/.353

There's your potential best offensive player in baseball ladies and gents.

Chez
08-01-2008, 07:43 AM
I disagree. Nothing wrong with a little honesty from the Hawk. The Twins have a great organization. They develop players who are normally fundamentally sound -- all while playing in a smaller market. What's not to admire? The fact that they kick our asses regularly in the Dome is painful but indisputable. I hate their ballpark but, at times, wish the Sox played a bit more like the Twins do.

jdm2662
08-01-2008, 07:52 AM
The radio is your friend.

oeo
08-01-2008, 08:00 AM
I disagree. Nothing wrong with a little honesty from the Hawk. The Twins have a great organization. They develop players who are normally fundamentally sound -- all while playing in a smaller market. What's not to admire? The fact that they kick our asses regularly in the Dome is painful but indisputable. I hate their ballpark but, at times, wish the Sox played a bit more like the Twins do.

This is an example of what I'm tired of hearing.

You want a bunch of crappy players that will never do anything worthwhile? The Twins get the best out of bad baseball players. If they were such a good organization, wouldn't you see more talent like say, the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Braves, or the Rays? No, you see your Buscher's, your Casilla's, I would bring up Punto but he's not even a product of the Twins system, etc.). And then their pitching staff...they bring along mediocre pitchers, that never really amount much in the majors (Silva, Lohse,...in a few years I bet you can add Baker, Slowey). That's great development?

Most of their real talent is from other organizations, just like us. There's two exceptions: Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, and that's it. Mauer is going to become an All Star Catcher no matter which team he's drafted by, though.

I don't want the Sox playing like the Twins. Some more speed? Sure, I'd like to have it. But the Twins way of baseball doesn't work when it matters most. I don't admire the way the Twins play. I think they're a bad collection of baseball players that use their ****ing stadium to their advantage.

hellview
08-01-2008, 08:04 AM
Most of their real talent is from other organizations, just like us. There's two exceptions: Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, and that's it.


Are you really comparing the Twins ability to develop talent to that of the White Sox?

oeo
08-01-2008, 08:11 AM
Are you really comparing the Twins ability to develop talent to that of the White Sox?

Name some guys that they have developed (not obtained from other organizations) that were good baseball players? We see the same crap every year...bad baseball players with some speed, that somehow get on base. Then they're gone in a couple of years. Whether it's by a blooper, 15 foot high chopper, broken bat, etc.

Do they develop smart players? Sure. But the quality of their players is nothing special...and not something I'd like the Sox to copy.

Chez
08-01-2008, 08:16 AM
This is an example of what I'm tired of hearing.

You want a bunch of crappy players that will never do anything worthwhile? The Twins get the best out of bad baseball players. If they were such a good organization, wouldn't you see more talent like say, the Diamondbacks or the Rays? No, you see your Buscher's, your Casilla's, I would bring up Punto but he's not even a product of the Twins system, etc.). And then their pitching staff...they bring along mediocre pitchers, that never really amount much in the majors (Silva, Lohse,...in a few years I bet you can add Baker, Slowey). That's a great development?

Most of their real talent is from other organizations, just like us. There's two exceptions: Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, and that's it.

I guess you're willing to ignore the talent that Minnesota developed or nurtured that's currently playing in other organizations. Johaan Santana (and, yes, I know he was a Rule 5 pick)? Torii Hunter? A.J. Pierczynski? I can go on but you've already made my point. The Twins do more with less than most other organizations and, for that, I admire them. You can't seriously compare the Rays to the Twins. Rays have never won anything and have finally assembled a talented roster simply because they have been drafting #1 since their inception. There's nothing wrong with respecting your enemy if they deserve respect.

oeo
08-01-2008, 08:21 AM
I guess you're willing to ignore the talent that Minnesota developed or nurtured that's currently playing in other organizations. Johaan Santana (and, yes, I know he was a Rule 5 pick)? Torii Hunter? I can go on but you've already made my point.

You can go on? Please do so. Who are you going to name next, Doug Mientkiwicz, Cristian Guzman, Jacque Jones?

And as you mentioned, Santana was not signed by the Twins.

The Twins do more with less than most other organizations and, for that, I admire them. You can't seriously compare the Rays to the Twins. Rays have never won anything and have finally assembled a talented roster simply because they have been drafting #1 since their inception. There's nothing wrong with respecting your enemy if they deserve respect.Alright, I can't use the Rays. What's wrong with the Dodgers, or the Braves? Look at the kind of talent that comes through their system, and actually makes an impact.

Hawk has gotten to you. I know the Twins have won with a small market payroll, but again...it's product of developing players with very little tools to play in that ballpark. It wouldn't work anywhere else (unless you're the Jays or the Rays), and they're going to struggle in their new park.

Martinigirl
08-01-2008, 08:24 AM
Absolutely. For the first time in my life I want Ozzie to come out and say something controversial. I want him to say, "**** them. We are better than them and we will beat them. **** them."

We play scared against them. Hawk's attitude is indicative of our entire organization and I am sick of it.

It isn't just Hawk, Ozzie has gone out of his way to glorify the Twins though too. God knows no one will let us forget the infamous "piranhas" tag from Ozzie.

I see no need to admire them as they kick our ass.

btrain929
08-01-2008, 08:25 AM
It's disgusting. He needs to be sitting next to Blyleven working games in that ****hole stadium. For someone who is often characterized by his defenders as "a homer just like me!", his defeatist attitude (during Twins games in particular) is horrifying.

Did he really say Carlos Gomez has the potential to be the best offensive player in the league? What league? Perhaps if he removed his lips from Ron Gardenhire's ass he'd see that we have a guy named Carlos who actually has that kind of potential.

He has become a P.R. guy for the Twins. I fear that his perception of the Twins as "invincible" is becoming organizational. We must get over this belief that the Twins can do no wrong. Hell, they just traded Johan Santana for absolutely nothing and we still think they are the best organization in baseball.

The sooner Hawk is gone, the better.

Put it on mute and listen to the radio. While I agree his praise for Gomez is over the top (if the sun came out this morning, Gomez definitely had something to do with it), it doesn't make me not wanna watch Sox baseball or listen to him. That's just me, though.

Jerko
08-01-2008, 08:28 AM
The Twins remind me of a football team that wins a lot of games on turnovers, blocked kicks, etc. but when they play a team that doesn't **** up they get hammered.

Chez
08-01-2008, 08:28 AM
You can go on? Please do so. Who are you going to name next, Doug Mientkiwicz, Cristian Guzman, Jacque Jones?.

Off the top of my head, A.J. Pierczynski and David Ortiz come to mind.

PatK
08-01-2008, 08:29 AM
Hawk's commentary was downright disgusting.

Yes, I know they are a good, competitive team. But they aren't the team you are paid to do the commentary for.

It was like he couldn't wait for the Twins to catch the Sox last night. And he was absolutely glowing when they took the lead.

Lately, I've been listening to the games on XM and synching up the broadcasts so I don't have to listen to him. Or

hawkjt
08-01-2008, 08:39 AM
The funny thing is that over on Motown Sports they absolutely hate Hawk. I am sure the same is true on twins boards. Hawk is effusive in his praise of the tigers and twins and most of their players.
The sox needed to win last nite and on tuesday with the 4 run leads. Period.
Now, I do not get why Hawk did not hammer Gardy for inciting the ugly incident and then DJ goes out of their way to defend the twins fans for disrupting the game. No,no,no, no...you call a spade a spade like Marty brenneman did when the cub fans did that earlier this season.

That should have been a forfeit game...sox win.

2906
08-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Now, I do not get why Hawk did not hammer Gardy for inciting the ugly incident and then DJ goes out of their way to defend the twins fans for disrupting the game. No,no,no, no...you call a spade a spade like Marty brenneman did when the cub fans did that earlier this season.

That should have been a forfeit game...sox win.

Oh please. What broadcast were you listening to?

Harrelson and Jackson spent ample time criticizing the fans for what they were doing. Harrelson was talking about how Ozzie did the right thing by pulling his players off the field, as did Jackson. They were telling stories about all the things that had been thrown at them during their playing days (ball bearings, batteries, etc.).

Further, Harrelson criticized the fan(s) Guillen was jawing with behind the dugout, saying "yeah, the guy's real tough when there's a barrier there". The only remote instance of him defending Twins fans was to say "this is unusual behavior, they usually have good fans here".

Forfeit the game? Hardly. It was handled as it should have been handled. A PA announcement, cleaning up the field, and then getting on with the game. The fans were stupid for throwing stuff, no question.

What Harrelson was harping on was execution and putting pressure on the other team. I sensed utter frustration in his voice because the Twins were executing and the White Sox were not. The guy gets drilled because he's a homer and he gets drilled because he compliments another team on their ability to execute.

downstairs
08-01-2008, 09:34 AM
Hawk is a fun guy to listen to when all goes well. But when they're playing poorly, it borders on psychotic. I mean- he's a grown man pouting in the corner!

2906
08-01-2008, 09:37 AM
Hawk's commentary was downright disgusting.

Yes, I know they are a good, competitive team. But they aren't the team you are paid to do the commentary for.

It was like he couldn't wait for the Twins to catch the Sox last night. And he was absolutely glowing when they took the lead.

Lately, I've been listening to the games on XM and synching up the broadcasts so I don't have to listen to him. Or

It seems you're suggesting he's a Twins fan or was rooting for the Twins. If so, that's crazy.

He was saying the same things people say in game threads. "Oh no, here they come again". Obviously he can't say some of the things said in the game thread, like "I hate the ****ing Twins".

If anyone here is like me, you are extremely frustrated because the opposition executed and the White Sox did not. Blaming the announcers for pointing out the opposition executed is a little over the top in my opinion.

And believe me, I hate the Twins as much as anyone here.

The Dude
08-01-2008, 10:17 AM
It's disgusting. He needs to be sitting next to Blyleven working games in that ****hole stadium. For someone who is often characterized by his defenders as "a homer just like me!", his defeatist attitude (during Twins games in particular) is horrifying.

Did he really say Carlos Gomez has the potential to be the best offensive player in the league? What league? Perhaps if he removed his lips from Ron Gardenhire's ass he'd see that we have a guy named Carlos who actually has that kind of potential.

He has become a P.R. guy for the Twins. I fear that his perception of the Twins as "invincible" is becoming organizational. We must get over this belief that the Twins can do no wrong. Hell, they just traded Johan Santana for absolutely nothing and we still think they are the best organization in baseball.

The sooner Hawk is gone, the better.

Give it a rest. So when Hawk acts like a homer, he gets **** from everyone. When he praises a team that kicks our ass every year with sub-par players, he gets ****. When he calls it the way he sees it, who are you to tell him what to say?
By no means do I think the man does a good job. He is well past his prime but still you can't have it both ways. You would rather see him make up stuff and excuses like he usually does about why the god damn bullpen gives up 7 runs? I credit the Twins for getting fired up and letting our newly craptacular bullpen have it.

Bottom line, complaining about announcers is very easy to do when you are losing. Why don't you point the blame at our players? :rolleyes:

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:19 AM
Give it a rest. So when Hawk acts like a homer, he gets **** from everyone. When he praises a team that kicks our ass every year with sub-par players, he gets ****. When he calls it the way he sees it, who are you to tell him what to say?
By no means do I think the man does a good job. He is well past his prime but still you can't have it both ways. You would rather see him make up stuff and excuses like he usually does about why the god damn bullpen gives up 7 runs? I credit the Twins for getting fired up and letting our newly craptacular bullpen have it.

Bottom line, complaining about announcers is very easy to do when you are losing. Why don't you point the blame at our players? :rolleyes:

I must have missed where he blamed the announcing on losing. You do not seize to amaze me.

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Off the top of my head, A.J. Pierczynski and David Ortiz come to mind.

Yeah, they really developed David Ortiz well...that's why he wasn't worth a damn until he left. There was a guy with talent, that they told could not pull the ball because that's not the Twins way. Well, the Twins way doesn't work for everyone...it mostly works for AAAA players.

The Dude
08-01-2008, 10:22 AM
I must have missed where he blamed the announcing on losing. You do not seize to amaze me.

You do not seize to amaze me because WHERE did I say he blames the announcing on losing?? I said it is easy to complain about announcers when you are losing. You just love to stir the pot don't you? Get some new reading glasses and re-read next time.
These three are for your ignorant posts.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:25 AM
You do not seize to amaze me because WHERE did I say he blames the announcing on losing?? I said it is easy to complain about announcers when you are losing. You just love to stir the pot don't you? Get some new reading glasses and re-read next time.
These three are for your ignorant posts.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And then you went on to say...
Why don't you point the blame at our players?Nice one on the reading glasses, though...haven't heard that one since 6th grade.

all*star quentin
08-01-2008, 10:27 AM
It's our whole organization. We need to stop praising these ****ers and start hating them, like they obviously hate us.

I agree with you. Ozzie calling them piranhas. When has Ozzie ever praised any of our guys?
We don't get respect from the media, why should we. We don't respect ourselves.
It's time to start singing the White Sox praises.
:gosox:

SBSoxFan
08-01-2008, 10:28 AM
Oh please. What broadcast were you listening to?

Harrelson and Jackson spent ample time criticizing the fans for what they were doing. Harrelson was talking about how Ozzie did the right thing by pulling his players off the field, as did Jackson. They were telling stories about all the things that had been thrown at them during their playing days (ball bearings, batteries, etc.).

Further, Harrelson criticized the fan(s) Guillen was jawing with behind the dugout, saying "yeah, the guy's real tough when there's a barrier there". The only remote instance of him defending Twins fans was to say "this is unusual behavior, they usually have good fans here".

Forfeit the game? Hardly. It was handled as it should have been handled. A PA announcement, cleaning up the field, and then getting on with the game. The fans were stupid for throwing stuff, no question.

What Harrelson was harping on was execution and putting pressure on the other team. I sensed utter frustration in his voice because the Twins were executing and the White Sox were not. The guy gets drilled because he's a homer and he gets drilled because he compliments another team on their ability to execute.

:gulp:

Great post. The Twins and Sox are both great at home and they're both sub-par on the road. I don't see where Hawk is the problem in this.

FedEx227
08-01-2008, 10:30 AM
Yeah, they really developed David Ortiz well...that's why he wasn't worth a damn until he left. There was a guy with talent, that they told could not pull the ball because that's not the Twins way. Well, the Twins way doesn't work for everyone...it mostly works for AAAA players.

Whether their players are crappy or not is irrelevant, the guys have won 4 of the last 6 Central Division titles, and have fielded an above .500 team (outside of 2007) since 2001. Much like Oakland they find the way to maximize value on their players through fundamental teaching, I respect that.

And to call some of the guys on this years team AAAA players is a joke, Carlos Gomez is a top prospect, Joe Mauer is the best catcher in the game and Morneau is one of the top left handed bats in the league.

I get the Twins hate, I do, they are annoying. But don't act like they've been lucky since 2001, organizationally they are doing something right.

The Dude
08-01-2008, 10:31 AM
And then you went on to say...


Nice one on the reading glasses, though...haven't heard that one since 6th grade.

That was not what I implied there. I meant quit bitching about the announcers when we are losing and point the bitching to the players.

I thought it was a nice touch since you LOVE reading my posts.:D:
Ever hear of the ignore button my young friend?

The Dude
08-01-2008, 10:36 AM
:gulp:

Great post. The Twins and Sox are both great at home and they're both sub-par on the road. I don't see where Hawk is the problem in this.

Both posts are very well said!:gulp:

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:37 AM
Whether their players are crappy or not is irrelevant, the guys have won 4 of the last 6 Central Division titles, and have fielded an above .500 team (outside of 2007) since 2001. Much like Oakland they find the way to maximize value on their players through fundamental teaching, I respect that.

It is relevant. We're talking about developing good ballplayers. Whether they've won 4 division titles is what it's irrelevant.

And to call some of the guys on this years team AAAA players is a joke, Carlos Gomez is a top prospect, Joe Mauer is the best catcher in the game and Morneau is one of the top left handed bats in the league.Did I call their entire team AAAA players? No. But the majority of that team would be riding bench on just about every other team in baseball.

I get the Twins hate, I do, they are annoying. But don't act like they've been lucky since 2001, organizationally they are doing something right.Yeah, developing their players to their stadium. Those teams did not have a lot of talent, and it showed in October.

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:39 AM
That was not what I implied there. I meant quit bitching about the announcers when we are losing and point the bitching to the players.

I thought it was a nice touch since you LOVE reading my posts.:D:
Ever hear of the ignore button my young friend?

I've used it before, and then I ended up reading the posts anyway, so I said screw it.

I don't mind most of your posts, anyway. It's mostly the Jermaine Dye blasting ones, when you have absolutely nothing to back yourself up. I just don't get why you dislike the guy so much.

FedEx227
08-01-2008, 10:45 AM
Yeah, developing their players to their stadium. Those teams did not have a lot of talent, and it showed in October.

Road Records

Twins 2002: 40-40
White Sox 2002: 34-47

Twins 2003: 42-39
White Sox 2003: 35-46

Twins 2004: 43-38
White Sox 2004: 37-44

Twins 2005: 38-43
White Sox 2005: 52-29

Twins 2006: 42-39
White Sox 2006: 41-40

Twins 2008: 23-28
White Sox 2008: 25-30

They sure do find a lot of ways to go above .500 on the road for a team that is built around their stadium. Funny. Are the White Sox built around their stadium because their road records are kinda mediocre sans 2005? Oh ****... it's a league-wide thing, teams are always better at home.

PatK
08-01-2008, 10:45 AM
It seems you're suggesting he's a Twins fan or was rooting for the Twins. If so, that's crazy.

He was saying the same things people say in game threads. "Oh no, here they come again". Obviously he can't say some of the things said in the game thread, like "I hate the ****ing Twins".

If anyone here is like me, you are extremely frustrated because the opposition executed and the White Sox did not. Blaming the announcers for pointing out the opposition executed is a little over the top in my opinion.

And believe me, I hate the Twins as much as anyone here.

I'm not blaming him for pointing out the opposition executed better than we did.

I just didn't like how with the exception of Wednesday's game, he had a "told you so, the Twins are better" attitude.

Like others, I'm sick and tired of the man crush that the Sox organization seems to have towards the Twins. I've got no problem with respecting them, but some of the over-the-top praise gets old. Especially when we are losing to them.

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:51 AM
Road Records

Twins 2002: 40-40
White Sox 2002: 34-47

Twins 2003: 42-39
White Sox 2003: 35-46

Twins 2004: 43-38
White Sox 2004: 37-44

Twins 2005: 38-43
White Sox 2005: 52-29

Twins 2006: 42-39
White Sox 2006: 41-40

Twins 2008: 23-28
White Sox 2008: 25-30

They sure do find a lot of ways to go above .500 on the road for a team that is built around their stadium. Funny. Are the White Sox built around their stadium because their road records are kinda mediocre sans 2005? Oh ****... it's a league-wide thing, teams are always better at home.

The White Sox are built for their stadium. Why do you think we have a bunch of power hitters?

And with the exception of 2004, what is really special about those road records?

Thome25
08-01-2008, 10:51 AM
The Twins have been pissing me off since the 1991 season.

FedEx227
08-01-2008, 10:57 AM
The White Sox are built for their stadium. Why do you think we have a bunch of power hitters?

And with the exception of 2004, what is really special about those road records?

Exactly, every team is built for their stadium. You'd be stupid not to do it. Why is it a negative against the Twins that they do it? They are doing what every other organization in baseball should do. And still they have above .500 win percentages, so this idea that they have some extreme homefield advantage that no other team in the league has is complete bull****. It would show up in the Home/Road W-L and it doesn't, they are a good home team and an above average road team.

oeo
08-01-2008, 10:59 AM
Exactly, every team is built for their stadium. You'd be stupid not to do it. Why is it a negative against the Twins that they do it? They are doing what every other organization in baseball should do. And still they have above .500 win percentages, so this idea that they have some extreme homefield advantage that no other team in the league has is complete bull****. It would show up in the Home/Road W-L and it doesn't, they are a good home team and an above average road team.

Because the Twins have obvious advantages in that dome. Mainly that carpet. I hate cheap singles, and that's Twins baseball.

And without their stadium, I think they'd be an 'above average' home team, too.

PaleHoser
08-01-2008, 11:23 AM
I think that contracting the Twins was one of Bud Selig's better ideas :wink:

They bunt, hit-and-run, hit behind runners, shorten swings with two strikes and take the extra base on offense. On defense they make the plays and rarely make mental errors - like throw a wild pitch to put the tying run in scoring position after they failed to bunt him over. They don't beat themselves.

Hawk's comments about how both teams were carrying themselves in the bottom of the 7th inning when it was still 4-3 Sox were spot-on. You couldn't tell the Sox were the team in the lead, particularly on the bench.

Nothing is more aggravating that watching your opponent play small-ball and execute it perfectly, particularly when you can't play it yourself. It absolutely drives me nuts, whether it's watching the Sox or youth baseball.

Brian26
08-01-2008, 11:31 AM
.256/.289/.353

There's your potential best offensive player in baseball ladies and gents.

Check his numbers against the Sox. Something like .429 against lefties, over .400 on the season at the Metrodome. Now, this doesn't excuse Hawk from doing his homework on Gomez, but Hawk certainly has a point. Gomez is playing like Willie Mays against good Sox pitching through the first half, and in that maybe Hawk sees "the potential."

Brian26
08-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Oh please. What broadcast were you listening to?

Harrelson and Jackson spent ample time criticizing the fans for what they were doing. Harrelson was talking about how Ozzie did the right thing by pulling his players off the field, as did Jackson. They were telling stories about all the things that had been thrown at them during their playing days (ball bearings, batteries, etc.).

Further, Harrelson criticized the fan(s) Guillen was jawing with behind the dugout, saying "yeah, the guy's real tough when there's a barrier there". The only remote instance of him defending Twins fans was to say "this is unusual behavior, they usually have good fans here".

Forfeit the game? Hardly. It was handled as it should have been handled. A PA announcement, cleaning up the field, and then getting on with the game. The fans were stupid for throwing stuff, no question.

What Harrelson was harping on was execution and putting pressure on the other team. I sensed utter frustration in his voice because the Twins were executing and the White Sox were not. The guy gets drilled because he's a homer and he gets drilled because he compliments another team on their ability to execute.

Fabulous, well-thought-out, factual post...especially the last line.

Hitmen77
08-01-2008, 11:36 AM
The Twins have been pissing me off since the 1991 season.

What? How can you not love the Homer Hanky?

Lip Man 1
08-01-2008, 11:49 AM
For what it's worth the Sox front office person that I interviewed Wednesday for WSI said that they think the Sox issues in Minnesota are to a large degree now mental (and this person played the game at a high level...).

They also said that Hawk is paid to be a "homer" that these games aren't broadcast by a national organization (i.e. Fox, ESPN), they are broadcast to Sox fans who have had a long history of "homers" dating back to Brickhouse and Caray.

This person feels that collectively the Sox foursome of Hawk, D.J. Stone and Farmer is the best group of announcers anywhere in baseball.

Lip

kitekrazy
08-01-2008, 12:22 PM
Whether their players are crappy or not is irrelevant, the guys have won 4 of the last 6 Central Division titles, and have fielded an above .500 team (outside of 2007) since 2001. Much like Oakland they find the way to maximize value on their players through fundamental teaching, I respect that.

And to call some of the guys on this years team AAAA players is a joke, Carlos Gomez is a top prospect, Joe Mauer is the best catcher in the game and Morneau is one of the top left handed bats in the league.

I get the Twins hate, I do, they are annoying. But don't act like they've been lucky since 2001, organizationally they are doing something right.

There's also the "they do nothing in the post season". They do a helluva lot more than most 2nd and 3rd place teams.

Some people just can't deal with the fact games are not played on paper. The only stat that counts is wins.

The sour grapes posts can get real annoying because Hawk and Ozzie give another team some praise. Why wouldn't they? They played in an era before the great "Selig Roid" era and praise traditional baseball when they see it.

I admire the Twins a lot. I wish the Sox could model their organization. They only thing I don't like about them is the players they let go. I'm sure every Twins fan regrets not having Santana this season.

Time to stop crying. They cleaned the Sox clock and did it convincingly. If the Sox pull the same crap at KC, it's time for an Ozzie rant.

bluestar
08-01-2008, 12:25 PM
I don't think the Twins are as good at developing talent as they are at teaching players to play within their "system." They expect players to play sound, fundamental baseball, and if they won't do it, they don't keep them around. They have moved a lot of players through that organization over the years, and many of them were relatively mediocre as far as raw athletic ability (Lew Ford?), but they thrive with that type of player because they stress solid fundamentals throughout the organization, and those players know they probably wouldn't be playing at that level for other organizations.

Case in point: Gardenhire's tongue lashing to Span in one of the games of this past series. Span had just scored, and one might expect congrats all around, but Span did something that upset Gardenhire. It is rare to see a MLB manager chew a player out like that so openly during a game. I'm not saying it is a good thing, mind you, but just that the Twins are not happy with a "the ends justify the means approach." You either play the game the way they want, or you will find yourself playing elsewhere.

The Twins' success is more an indictment of the inability of other MLB teams and players to play fundamentally sound baseball than it is something to be admired.

Adele_H
08-01-2008, 12:27 PM
It's disgusting. He needs to be sitting next to Blyleven working games in that ****hole stadium. For someone who is often characterized by his defenders as "a homer just like me!", his defeatist attitude (during Twins games in particular) is horrifying.

Did he really say Carlos Gomez has the potential to be the best offensive player in the league? What league? Perhaps if he removed his lips from Ron Gardenhire's ass he'd see that we have a guy named Carlos who actually has that kind of potential.

He has become a P.R. guy for the Twins. I fear that his perception of the Twins as "invincible" is becoming organizational. We must get over this belief that the Twins can do no wrong. Hell, they just traded Johan Santana for absolutely nothing and we still think they are the best organization in baseball.

The sooner Hawk is gone, the better.



Hawk, much like Ozzie, is just covering for his bosses in case Sox finish behind the Twins again.


:ozzie

"Don't look at me; it's not like I mismanaged a 100+ million dollar roster full of all-star caliber talent.... No, it's the great Piranhas: no team can swim with them, no team can catch them. Now, make sure you spell my name right, ***"


...

hawkjt
08-01-2008, 12:31 PM
Oh please. What broadcast were you listening to?

Harrelson and Jackson spent ample time criticizing the fans for what they were doing. Harrelson was talking about how Ozzie did the right thing by pulling his players off the field, as did Jackson. They were telling stories about all the things that had been thrown at them during their playing days (ball bearings, batteries, etc.).

Further, Harrelson criticized the fan(s) Guillen was jawing with behind the dugout, saying "yeah, the guy's real tough when there's a barrier there". The only remote instance of him defending Twins fans was to say "this is unusual behavior, they usually have good fans here".

Forfeit the game? Hardly. It was handled as it should have been handled. A PA announcement, cleaning up the field, and then getting on with the game. The fans were stupid for throwing stuff, no question.

What Harrelson was harping on was execution and putting pressure on the other team. I sensed utter frustration in his voice because the Twins were executing and the White Sox were not. The guy gets drilled because he's a homer and he gets drilled because he compliments another team on their ability to execute.

Did you hear him take Gardy to task for inciting the crowd with his over the top antics? No. Gardy should be suspended and I assume he will be. If Ozzie started kicking his hat around the field and fans threw beer bottles and baseballs on the field..what do you think the twins broadcasters would say? They would hammer Ozzie. I like Hawk and just wish he would have made it clear that the prolonged demonstration by Gardy incited the situation.

guillen4life13
08-01-2008, 12:32 PM
I seriously don't understand why some of you are getting so bent out of shape about this.

Hawk calls it like he sees it. He has forgotten more baseball knowledge than any of us know right now. Sometimes he gets annoying, sure... but he tends to say what I'm thinking. I think the strike zone was very inconsistent and the umpiring was sub-standard.

I also could tell when the Sox were starting to unravel. Hawk said it. The Sox did it. The Twins jumped all over it.

And I really don't give a **** about the quality of players the Twins have. I care that, since 2001 (and excluding 2005), the Twins and Athletics have had our number whenever we've gone to play them in their home stadiums. I care that the Twins have won division titles with less talent than the Sox for all but 2001 and 2005 (Cleveland took '01).

And it's been the same story the whole time. Since 2001. The Sox go to the Metrodome and consistently make asses out of themselves. And you're bitching about the announcing?! *****! At least Hawk isn't so clueless to not call out his team when they're ****ing up. Swisher needs to make those picks (and for all of PK's faults, he's really good and digging balls in the dirt). The infielders need to not throw in the dirt. Stop blaming the damn ballpark and think about what you can do to avoid stupid **** like this.

Oh, and learn to field a damn bunt! That's the type of stuff the Twins do and teach. So what if they capitalize on opponents' mistakes? The Sox should do the same! You give a team 2, 3, 4 extra outs and they're going to make you pay. That's what the Sox did. And that's inexcusable.

I'm not writing off the team by any stretch, but I am saying that this whole series, the Sox played horrible baseball and they got what they deserved. I hate that Dome also, but that's no excuse for boneheaded play on the field.

Brian26
08-01-2008, 12:33 PM
This person feels that collectively the Sox foursome of Hawk, D.J. Stone and Farmer is the best group of announcers anywhere in baseball.

Lip

Which anyone with the XM radio or Extra Innings tv package can vouch for.

High Mileage
08-01-2008, 12:44 PM
How you guys put up with Hawk at all is beyond me...:scratch:

guillen4life13
08-01-2008, 12:45 PM
Hawk, much like Ozzie, is just covering for his bosses in case Sox finish behind the Twins again.


:ozzie

"Don't look at me; it's not like I mismanaged a 100+ million dollar roster full of all-star caliber talent.... No, it's the great Piranhas: no team can swim with them, no team can catch them. Now, make sure you spell my name right, ***"


...

Oh bull****! Of course it's Ozzie's fault, right? The Sox scored 6 runs yesterday, which ought to be enough to win a game. The pitching is in a funk. I feel for Danks but he gave up a critical walk after getting a second chance with Span.

Oh, they should have brought in Carrasco...

I'm sure Don Cooper has a say in things like this also. Thornton, Logan, Dotel and Wasserman have all been pretty unreliable for a while. That leaves you with only Jenks and Carrasco. You can't survive with a pen that has only two guys worth trusting. The other guys just need to grow some balls and up the intimidation factor. And hit locations...

Maybe players should be held accountable from time to time. They're professionals and most of them get paid more than Ozzie to do their job.

Adele_H
08-01-2008, 12:48 PM
How you guys put up with Hawk at all is beyond me...:scratch:

El Hawkaroo is a singular commodity in a broadcasting world full of interchangeable stiffs & poseurs. 3/4 camp and 1/4 brilliant insight.

He's passionate about the Sox and he entertains me.





Can't wait for Steve Stone hopefully balancing Hawk out next year, though.

hellview
08-01-2008, 12:52 PM
Yeah, developing their players to their stadium. Those teams did not have a lot of talent, and it showed in October.

So a 5 games series shows more about a teams talent level then 162 games?

Adele_H
08-01-2008, 12:55 PM
Oh bull****! Of course it's Ozzie's fault, right? .

Yes. He's the The Mang-In-Charge, and he didn't put Danks, Thornton or Dotel (this game should have never gone to Wasserman, Logan) in an optimal position to succeed. And yes, they are also to blame for failing that goes without saying, duh.

Couple that with deer-in-the-headlights look in critical situations, awful fundamentals and selfish approach at the plate... And at some point, the fearless leader Ozzie and his coaching staff has to answer for it.

High Mileage
08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
El Hawkaroo is a singular commodity in a broadcasting world full of interchangeable stiffs & poseurs. 3/4 camp and 1/4 brilliant insight.

He's passionate about the Sox and he entertains me.





Can't wait for Steve Stone hopefully balancing Hawk out next year, though.
"El Hawkaroo" is about a cookie cutter as they get. He's been saying the same things for years and years, like "HE GONE", "THEY GONE", and "PUT IT ON THE BOARD YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!". This isn't because I'm a Royals fan either, I think Ryan Lefebvre and Paul Splittorff are awesome on TV, but I don't watch the majority of Royals games on cable. I watch them on MLB.tv and listen to the radio broadcast, which sucks because Bob Davis is almost as bad as Hawk...

Steve Stone is good though, I enjoyed watching Cubs games and listening to him...

cheezheadsoxfan
08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
For what it's worth the Sox front office person that I interviewed Wednesday for WSI said that they think the Sox issues in Minnesota are to a large degree now mental (and this person played the game at a high level...).

Lip

I've thought it's mental for some time. That's why I think the constant Twinkie praise has become a real negative. It's in their heads now. They go there expecting to get beat up. How good or bad the Twins are is hardly even the issue.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2008, 01:33 PM
Adele:

The Sox announcing situation next year may be more like "a blast from the past" you'll have to read the next WSI interview to find out more about this.

D.J.'s situation, Steve's situation are all playing a part in this as is possibly an individual now in Tampa. You could see faces in a LOT of different places next season.

Lip

alohafri
08-01-2008, 01:40 PM
I hate cheap singles, and that's Twins baseball.



I'll take a cheap single over a cheap pop up...

alohafri
08-01-2008, 01:43 PM
Which anyone with the XM radio or Extra Innings tv package can vouch for.

I can vouch for the radio side. I listen to a lot of games on XM and I can count on one hand (with a few fingers left) the number of announcers who are better than Farmio and Stone...Scully comes to mind.

D'Sphitz
08-01-2008, 02:05 PM
I don't think the Twins are as good at developing talent as they are at teaching players to play within their "system." They expect players to play sound, fundamental baseball, and if they won't do it, they don't keep them around. They have moved a lot of players through that organization over the years, and many of them were relatively mediocre as far as raw athletic ability (Lew Ford?), but they thrive with that type of player because they stress solid fundamentals throughout the organization, and those players know they probably wouldn't be playing at that level for other organizations.

Case in point: Gardenhire's tongue lashing to Span in one of the games of this past series. Span had just scored, and one might expect congrats all around, but Span did something that upset Gardenhire. It is rare to see a MLB manager chew a player out like that so openly during a game. I'm not saying it is a good thing, mind you, but just that the Twins are not happy with a "the ends justify the means approach." You either play the game the way they want, or you will find yourself playing elsewhere.

The Twins' success is more an indictment of the inability of other MLB teams and players to play fundamentally sound baseball than it is something to be admired.

Right. As someone posted yesterday, the Twins just play fundamental ball and wait for the other team to make mistakes and beat themselves. Obviously, it works.

hellview
08-01-2008, 02:09 PM
Right. As someone posted yesterday, the Twins just play fundamental ball and wait for the other team to make mistakes and beat themselves. Obviously, it works.

So the Twins have won more games then they've lost since 2000 cause they wait for the other team to make a mistake.

BTW has anyone looked at the Twins defensive numbers this season, they're one of the worst defensive teams in the league this season. This isn't the same Koskie, Guzman, Rivas, Mienkasjfbaskdfjbjdfa teams of 2002-2004.

Marqhead
08-01-2008, 02:16 PM
I'll put up with it until we start beating the piss out of them home or away. Until then, as far as I'm concerned they deserve the praise for what they do with their payroll and level of talent.

2906
08-01-2008, 02:43 PM
Did you hear him take Gardy to task for inciting the crowd with his over the top antics? No. Gardy should be suspended and I assume he will be. If Ozzie started kicking his hat around the field and fans threw beer bottles and baseballs on the field..what do you think the twins broadcasters would say? They would hammer Ozzie. I like Hawk and just wish he would have made it clear that the prolonged demonstration by Gardy incited the situation.

It was the fans' fault, not Gardenhire's. Harrelson and Jackson took the fans to task, as they should have. They called what was happening.

Seriously, you're blaming the fan behavior on Gardenhire? Managers have been getting ejected like that since baseball began.

daveeym
08-01-2008, 02:55 PM
I gotta agree with the OP here. I like hawk telling it how it is and all but against the twinkies he's a defeatist and mental midget just like the rest of the team and I have to turn them off in those situations. We walk into the hump dome and everyone turns into this...
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:q3y-rgBllliC7M:http://www.ssfuturama.cz/stuff/submitted/Lee_FryandBrainSlug.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ssfuturama.cz/stuff/submitted/Lee_FryandBrainSlug.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ssfuturama.cz/stuff/submission.php&h=700&w=595&sz=39&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=q3y-rgBllliC7M:&tbnh=140&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfuturama%2Bbrain%2Bslug%26gbv%3D2%26h l%3Den%26sa%3DG)

hawkjt
08-01-2008, 03:19 PM
It was the fans' fault, not Gardenhire's. Harrelson and Jackson took the fans to task, as they should have. They called what was happening.

Seriously, you're blaming the fan behavior on Gardenhire? Managers have been getting ejected like that since baseball began.


Does the opposing team have to be pulled off the field everytime a manager gets ejected? I have not seen it done ever. That is a tip-off that gardy went far beyond the normal ejection. We will see if the commissioners office feels like it is business as usual for players to have to be pulled off the field following a 6 minute ,hat-kicking demonstration by gardy...I could be wrong and I will see if the next time ozzie gets kicked if sox fans are incited to do the same.

PatK
08-01-2008, 03:33 PM
I can vouch for the radio side. I listen to a lot of games on XM and I can count on one hand (with a few fingers left) the number of announcers who are better than Farmio and Stone...Scully comes to mind.

Also having XM, I agree.

What's scary is how horrible some of the "legendary" announcers are.

2906
08-01-2008, 03:33 PM
Does the opposing team have to be pulled off the field everytime a manager gets ejected? I have not seen it done ever. That is a tip-off that gardy went far beyond the normal ejection. We will see if the commissioners office feels like it is business as usual for players to have to be pulled off the field following a 6 minute ,hat-kicking demonstration by gardy...I could be wrong and I will see if the next time ozzie gets kicked if sox fans are incited to do the same.

So you expected Harrelson to go off on Gardenhire because of how the fans reacted to Gardenhire's tantrum?

Again, it was the fans' fault. What Gardenhire did, while theatrical and possibly suspension worthy, didn't force people to throw stuff on the field.

Harrelson and Jackson took the fans to task as they should have, because that's where the blame lied.

Brian26
08-01-2008, 03:40 PM
"El Hawkaroo" is about a cookie cutter as they get. He's been saying the same things for years and years, like "HE GONE", "THEY GONE", and "PUT IT ON THE BOARD YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!".

An astute observer would note that Hawk's act has been evolving for years. Hawk constantly rotates new schtick into his routine and sends other catch phrases to pasture. The only thing that stays constant is that he bleeds black and silver.

Brian26
08-01-2008, 03:41 PM
I can vouch for the radio side. I listen to a lot of games on XM and I can count on one hand (with a few fingers left) the number of announcers who are better than Farmio and Stone...Scully comes to mind.

Scully is phenomenal, as is John Rooney, who unfortunately is brought down a peg by the completely inept and horrendous Mike Shannon.

bluestar
08-01-2008, 03:44 PM
Does the opposing team have to be pulled off the field everytime a manager gets ejected? I have not seen it done ever. That is a tip-off that gardy went far beyond the normal ejection. We will see if the commissioners office feels like it is business as usual for players to have to be pulled off the field following a 6 minute ,hat-kicking demonstration by gardy...I could be wrong and I will see if the next time ozzie gets kicked if sox fans are incited to do the same.

I suspect Gardenhire will either be fined or suspended or both for his actions. I think a major factor in league discipline after the fact like this rests with the report from the umpires on the incident. If the umpires indicate that Gardenhire went too far and incited the crowd by his actions, then I think the league will hand down further discipline. Gardenhire even seemed to take responsibility for the crowd's reaction and said "Kicking the hat was probably a little much."

I also think Gardenhire knew exactly what he was doing (not in inciting the crowd, but in firing up his team). He knows the rules, and he knew the umpires were right. But the game was pretty much cruising along up to that point, and I think he wanted to do something to disrupt the flow -- not only for the Sox, but also to light a fire under his own team. It worked, too.

AJ had the best comment on it though, "I knew Gardy was going to throw his hat eventually. That's his go-to move. He usually doesn't kick it. That was kind of entertaining."

Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 06:43 PM
I seriously don't understand why some of you are getting so bent out of shape about this.

Hawk calls it like he sees it. He has forgotten more baseball knowledge than any of us know right now. Sometimes he gets annoying, sure... but he tends to say what I'm thinking. I think the strike zone was very inconsistent and the umpiring was sub-standard.

I also could tell when the Sox were starting to unravel. Hawk said it. The Sox did it. The Twins jumped all over it.

And I really don't give a **** about the quality of players the Twins have. I care that, since 2001 (and excluding 2005), the Twins and Athletics have had our number whenever we've gone to play them in their home stadiums. I care that the Twins have won division titles with less talent than the Sox for all but 2001 and 2005 (Cleveland took '01).

And it's been the same story the whole time. Since 2001. The Sox go to the Metrodome and consistently make asses out of themselves. And you're bitching about the announcing?! *****! At least Hawk isn't so clueless to not call out his team when they're ****ing up. Swisher needs to make those picks (and for all of PK's faults, he's really good and digging balls in the dirt). The infielders need to not throw in the dirt. Stop blaming the damn ballpark and think about what you can do to avoid stupid **** like this.

Oh, and learn to field a damn bunt! That's the type of stuff the Twins do and teach. So what if they capitalize on opponents' mistakes? The Sox should do the same! You give a team 2, 3, 4 extra outs and they're going to make you pay. That's what the Sox did. And that's inexcusable.

I'm not writing off the team by any stretch, but I am saying that this whole series, the Sox played horrible baseball and they got what they deserved. I hate that Dome also, but that's no excuse for boneheaded play on the field.
Nope. Absolute bull****. A man with a decent baseball acumen wouldn't spew half the **** that comes out of his mouth.

Railsplitter
08-01-2008, 07:46 PM
Not to be too blunt, but the "hate the Twins" stuff I've seen here has been nothing short of infantile. The Twins play fudamentally solid baseball, developing players in the minors, rather than thowing shovels full of money at over the hill free agents. I have a preview magazine from this year that called for the Twins to fnish last in the A.L. Central because they lost Torii Hunter and Johann Santana.

Twins hitters look for ANY hit with runners on base, not just trying to pound every pitch into oblivion; and thier fielders don't give opponents four or five outs in an inning. That is why the are 1/2 game behind the Sox.

I repect good play, no matter who does it.

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Ok, now Hawk has really gone off the deep end comparing Gomez to Jr...

Frater Perdurabo
08-01-2008, 08:50 PM
Here is an article (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/27/sports/sp-metrodome27) from the LA Times about the manipulation of the ventilation fans in the Metrodome.

Daver
08-01-2008, 09:05 PM
Ken Harrelson has sucked in the booth for years, and you choose now to complain about it?

BleacherBandit
08-01-2008, 09:11 PM
Ken Harrelson has sucked in the booth for years, and you choose now to complain about it?


If you want to complain about the Hawk, complain about his stint as the GM, when what he did actually counted.

At least he's better than Ron Santo. Anybody who believes that he is the play by play man is mistaken. DJ is slowly phasing him of that role. Most games, DJ does just as much of the play by play stuff as Hawk. You can tell they're waiting for him to retire so Jackson can take over.

Craig Grebeck
08-01-2008, 09:16 PM
Ken Harrelson has sucked in the booth for years, and you choose now to complain about it?
I agree Daver. Last night just sent me over the edge.

cards press box
08-01-2008, 09:23 PM
The Twins remind me of a football team that wins a lot of games on turnovers, blocked kicks, etc. but when they play a team that doesn't **** up they get hammered.

That sums up the Twins well and explains why they have such a hard time in the playoffs.

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2008, 09:30 PM
That sums up the Twins well and explains why they have such a hard time in the playoffs.
A friend of mine wrote an editorial to the Minneapolis paper on why the Twins should be banned from the playoffs, absolutely picking apart their ineptitude when it comes to October. It was a work of art.

cards press box
08-01-2008, 09:30 PM
Here is an article (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/27/sports/sp-metrodome27) from the LA Times about the manipulation of the ventilation fans in the Metrodome.

Just remember, the Twins have a 14 game road trip in late August, early September. After this weekend Twins/Indians series, the Twins have 51 games left, with only 21 of those in the Metrodome. The manipulation of the ventilation fans won't do them much good on the road.

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Just remember, the Twins have a 14 game road trip in late August, early September. After this weekend Twins/Indians series, the Twins have 51 games left, with only 21 of those in the Metrodome. The manipulation of the ventilation fans won't do them much good on the road.
I bet the Angels are licking their chomps for that 4-gamer at Edison Field.

kba
08-01-2008, 09:36 PM
If you want to complain about the Hawk, complain about his stint as the GM, when what he did actually counted.

At least he's better than Ron Santo. Anybody who believes that he is the play by play man is mistaken. DJ is slowly phasing him of that role. Most games, DJ does just as much of the play by play stuff as Hawk. You can tell they're waiting for him to retire so Jackson can take over.

Not so fast. There's a question (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/cs-080702-darrin-jackson-steve-stone-chicago,0,2467732.story) about whether the Sox are even going to renew DJ's contract for next season.

Hendu
08-01-2008, 09:41 PM
Uh-oh, Hawk is still fawning over Carlos Gomez. In the same discussion as Ken Griffey Jr. even with respect to players you'd pay to see.

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2008, 09:45 PM
Uh-oh, Hawk is still fawning over Carlos Gomez. In the same discussion as Ken Griffey Jr. even with respect to players you'd pay to see.
He's fawned over Gomez at least three times tonight, and we're not even playing the Twins. Personally, I don't see anything in Gomez that I haven't seen in any other above-average player. There, I said it...above-average player. He is not a super-star and can't reach that status until he can put together a few outstanding seasons. There are at least 5 CFers I'd take over him right now anyways.

soxinem1
08-01-2008, 10:13 PM
Absolutely. For the first time in my life I want Ozzie to come out and say something controversial. I want him to say, "**** them. We are better than them and we will beat them. **** them."

We play scared against them. Hawk's attitude is indicative of our entire organization and I am sick of it.

Seems the last time we did that, they won, like what, three division titles in a row?

As far as Hawk is concerned, he's always built up players from opposing teams.

I cannot wait until they move into their new park. We are hexed in the HHH.

Examples:

Rich Dotson losing a masterpiece in 1984 on an ITPHR by 'speed-burner' Tim Teufel in the 9th.

Countless nobody on, two-out losses and MIN rallies, like the game they played against them the day the AL Central was clinched in 2000. They blew a 5-0 lead which included a long, two-out bomb by then-Twin AJ.

Bull**** players like Denny Hocking hitting game-winning HR's that still haven't landed yet.

Singles that bounce into HR's.

The list is endless. I will rejoice when the Twins are done there.

Rockinsox05
08-01-2008, 11:16 PM
I'm really sick of hearing how great Carlos Gomez is. He was still talking about him tonight

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm really sick of hearing how great Carlos Gomez is. He was still talking about him tonight
:hawk
"Ken Griffey is the type of player you pay to see. Same thing applies to that Gomez kid in Minnesota."

I really like listening to your broadcasts, Hawk; but, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

BleacherBandit
08-01-2008, 11:33 PM
Didn't you see over the weekend when Gomez ran into the crappy walls in the HHH and was almost injured?


He had to be helped off in a stretcher. God, I wish he was injured so we didn't have to hear about him all this week.

JB98
08-01-2008, 11:53 PM
:hawk
"Ken Griffey is the type of player you pay to see. Same thing applies to that Gomez kid in Minnesota."

I really like listening to your broadcasts, Hawk; but, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

When he first started talking about how he'd "pay to see that kid in Minnesota," I assumed he was talking about Mauer, who is the best catcher in baseball. But, no, he was talking about stupid Carlos Gomez, who hits for the cycle against the Sox and sucks against the rest of the league.

oeo
08-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Didn't you see over the weekend when Gomez ran into the crappy walls in the HHH and was almost injured?

That happened in Cleveland.

jabrch
08-01-2008, 11:56 PM
That happened in Cleveland.


That place sucks too.

BleacherBandit
08-01-2008, 11:56 PM
That happened in Cleveland.


Yeah, that's right.

Denard Span did the same thing too a little while later....But he keeps running into walls and ends up fine.

Irishsox1
08-02-2008, 12:14 AM
I think Hawk is talking up the Twins because, they are a very good team and second to put pressure on them. If I had access to the media I would be calling the Twins one of the best teams ever. There whole attitude is that they are a bunch of nobody's flying under the radar. This Twins team is pretty young, screw with their heads.

Rudy Law
08-02-2008, 12:16 AM
You know what...All he is doing is showing respect to an orginization that really does it right.....As a baseball man he is showing a appreciation for that......

chisoxfanatic
08-02-2008, 12:22 AM
I think Hawk is talking up the Twins because, they are a very good team and second to put pressure on them.
Yea, they might be a very good REGULAR-SEASON team...

Nellie_Fox
08-02-2008, 01:02 AM
I can vouch for the radio side. I listen to a lot of games on XM and I can count on one hand (with a few fingers left) the number of announcers who are better than Farmio and Stone...Scully comes to mind.Since I'm "out of market," I have both XM and MLB Extra Innings. I agree with most of what you say, but Scully is absolutely snooze inducing.

chisoxfanatic
08-02-2008, 01:20 AM
Since I'm "out of market," I have both XM and MLB Extra Innings. I agree with most of what you say, but Scully is absolutely snooze inducing.
SO true. I think he's overrated simply because of the amount of year's he's been in the business. He has no character. I'm so glad we have Hawk & DJ instead...they're fun to listen to.

BleacherBandit
08-02-2008, 01:30 AM
SO true. I think he's overrated simply because of the amount of year's he's been in the business. He has no character. I'm so glad we have Hawk & DJ instead...they're fun to listen to.

Yep, and Hawk is the exact opposite of Vince Scully.

Vince is totally subjective about the Dodgers, while....well....we know about Hawk.

Nellie_Fox
08-02-2008, 01:33 AM
Yep, and Hawk is the exact opposite of Vince Scully.

Vince is totally subjective about the Dodgers, while....well....we know about Hawk.It's Vin Scully. Yes, his name is Vincent, but he goes by Vin, not Vince.

ChiSoxFan7
08-02-2008, 02:23 AM
was it just me but everytime he talked to Jr. great career he somehow brought it to joe mauer or the great scouts of twins or the best etc....


it just seemed odd that with all of his knowledge and having a future hof to talk about he could only talk about the twins....

i've never noticed it till i saw this thread but it was thick today...well yesterdays tech. game. (8/1).

MikeKreevich
08-02-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm so glad someone posted on this subject. I love Hawk Harrelson, but after four games of listening to insessant Twins Love, I had to turn off the volume.
Hawk goes way overboard with his praise of the Twins, their manager and their organization. D.J. has also gone along with this. It is excessive and wearing. I can't wait to see how the Twins do in their new stadium. Can anyone think of a baseball team with a bigger home field advantage?

PatK
08-02-2008, 09:03 AM
Didn't he say Joe Mauer wrote the book on hitting last night.

ChiSoxFan7
08-02-2008, 09:24 AM
Didn't he say Joe Mauer wrote the book on hitting last night.

well he does have the prettiest swing :redface:

hellview
08-02-2008, 12:39 PM
I can't wait to see how the Twins do in their new stadium. Can anyone think of a baseball team with a bigger home field advantage?

So do you truely believe that once the Twins moved into their new stadium that the Twins will suddenly be this .500 team?

Adele_H
08-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Nope. Absolute bull****. A man with a decent baseball acumen wouldn't spew half the **** that comes out of his mouth.

But it's the other half of what he "spews" that's pretty damn profound if you actually, you know, think about it.

Hawk is a White Sox institution, like it or not.


...

Frater Perdurabo
08-02-2008, 12:58 PM
So do you truely believe that once the Twins moved into their new stadium that the Twins will suddenly be this .500 team?

The Metrodome isn't so much an advantage for the Twins as it is a disadvantage for opposing teams who are not accustomed to playing there.

I think that the Twins will still have a home record above .500 in their new stadium (not quite as good as their home record now), and in addition may play slightly better than they do now on the road because they will not have to make an adjustment to playing outdoors on grass.

As long as they keep drafting and developing solid fundamental ballplayers, they will be a competitive team.

whitesox901
08-02-2008, 01:07 PM
The Twins ****ing own us, especially in that dump of a park.

To sit there and watch the bullpen allow 7 runs in 2 innings and pretend like everything is OK, would be a travesty, IMO.

no doubt

TheOldRoman
08-02-2008, 01:15 PM
I've used it before, and then I ended up reading the posts anyway, so I said screw it.

I don't mind most of your posts, anyway. It's mostly the Jermaine Dye blasting ones, when you have absolutely nothing to back yourself up. I just don't get why you dislike the guy so much.Uh oh! Watch out, oeo. You don't want to piss him off, or you might get a scathing PM assuming that he makes more money than you and has more friends and you are jealous of him for it.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

hellview
08-02-2008, 01:20 PM
The Metrodome isn't so much an advantage for the Twins as it is a disadvantage for opposing teams who are not accustomed to playing there.

What is there about the dome to get accustomed too?

There's no weird backdrop in the batters eye.

Maybe 1-2 times a year you see a highlight of some team losing a ball in the roof?

The only thing I can really tihnk of is that the ball moves faster in the infield cause of the field turf. But any infield worth their salt can get used to it by getting enough work in pregame.

JB98
08-02-2008, 01:45 PM
Didn't he say Joe Mauer wrote the book on hitting last night.

Actually, he stated that Mauer "invented hitting."

I think Mauer is the best catcher in baseball right now, but that's a little much.

chisoxfanatic
08-02-2008, 01:48 PM
As long as they keep drafting and developing solid fundamental ballplayers, they will be a competitive team.
They might be competitive; but, they will continue to die in October.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-02-2008, 01:51 PM
Actually, he stated that Mauer "invented hitting."

I think Mauer is the best catcher in baseball right now, but that's a little much.

Yeah, DiMaggio and Williams were so mediocre

Frater Perdurabo
08-02-2008, 01:52 PM
They might be competitive; but, they will continue to die in October.

I agree, because they can't/won't spend money to retain their good talent (Santana, Hunter, etc.).

But predictions that they will suddenly turn into the Royals or Pirates upon moving to an open-air stadium are foolish.

PushinWeight
08-02-2008, 02:12 PM
Say what you want about the Twins. Praise them or bash them; it does not really matter. Their brand of baseball kinda works. But when it comes down to the ultimate goal of winning the championship in baseball, the Twins will not be apart of the equation. I guarantee that the Rest of the A.L. contenders are rooting for the Twins to win the central, because they know that if they meet them in the first round that it would basically be a bye to the ALCS; where as facing the Sox (or even the Tigers for argument's sake) would be a legit challenge.

Brian26
08-02-2008, 02:14 PM
Actually, he stated that Mauer "invented hitting."

I heard that last night as well, but it seemed like there was a bit of sarcasm in his voice. I didn't think he was being serious, especially when all Hawk does is canonize Ted Williams and Yaz.

Brian26
08-02-2008, 02:19 PM
They might be competitive; but, they will continue to die in October.

This line of thinking has always been flawed.

The Twins have been unlucky by not winning another pennant this decade, but the playoffs have always been a crap-shoot once you get in. Losing three out of five games at the end of the season isn't a testament that their organization is flawed. Anyone can get hot at the right time and go all the way (i.e. 06 Cardinals) and great teams can get cold at the wrong time (116-win '01 Mariners).

MikeKreevich
08-03-2008, 08:14 AM
So do you truely believe that once the Twins moved into their new stadium that the Twins will suddenly be this .500 team?
Why do you ask? Did I say that?

Lip Man 1
08-03-2008, 11:13 AM
The Twins will need to "readjust" when they start playing in the new stadium, that I agree with but if you play fundamentally sound baseball (which the Twins do) then it's hard to think there will be a major drop off.

Lip