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View Full Version : Who would the Sox have to give up to get a quality CF?


Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 02:37 PM
PK and Swisher have been among the most disappointing hitters on the Sox this year. If the Sox acquired a CF who could hit well, it would allow the Sox to bench either Paulie or Swisher and/or platoon them at 1B based on matchups.

Who would the Sox have to give up to get:

A. Randy Winn from the Giants;

B. Mark Kotsay from the Braves;

C. David DeJesus from the Royals?

I think any one of these guys could help the Sox and would play good CF defense as well as hit for decent average and run the bases well.

Certainly the Royals have no desire to help a division foe and he's clearly the best of these three CFs. Still, everyone is available for the right price, so what would the Royals demand to acquire him?

skottyj242
07-29-2008, 02:39 PM
Certainly the Royals have no desire to help a division foe and he's clearly the best of these three CFs. Still, everyone is available for the right price, so what would the Royals demand to acquire him?

They can have Andy Thong Song back.

btrain929
07-29-2008, 02:42 PM
I've always been a fan of DeJesus. When does he become a free agent?

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 02:42 PM
Well, for DeJesus, I'd give the Royals the choice of any three Sox prospects (I'd include BA as a prospect in case the Royals would like to take him on as a project). If that's not enough, they can have any four. Still not sure if that's enough, though.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 02:45 PM
I've always been a fan of DeJesus. When does he become a free agent?

Not for a while. According to sportsnet.ca (http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/David_DeJesus/), he signed a five-year deal on March 10, 2006.

btrain929
07-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Well, for DeJesus, I'd give the Royals the choice of any three Sox prospects (I'd include BA as a prospect in case the Royals would like to take him on as a project). If that's not enough, they can have any four. Still not sure if that's enough, though.

Are you including Josh Fields in the group of "prospects" ?

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 02:53 PM
Are you including Josh Fields in the group of "prospects" ?

Of course.

wulfy
07-29-2008, 02:54 PM
Big fan of David DeJesus. :D:

Optipessimism
07-29-2008, 02:56 PM
DeJesus isn't going anywhere unless the Royals get floored, and even if we offered a package of talent that floored Dayton Moore, I still wouldn't want to do it. The Royals have been on the upswing for the last couple seasons IMO, and you never know when they'll pull a Detroit/Tampa Bay/Florida-type season where they finally put it together and become a threat.

If we're going to put together a big package for someone, I'd rather go the extra mile and make a really big run at a guy like Alex Rios over the offseason if it's a possibility. JP Ricciardi is crazy and Rios is having a bad year (for him). Picking up an above average but not star player like DeJesus for a bevy of prospects that could bite us badly in the future is not a smart move IMO.

Winn would be cheap since he's signed through '09. I'd love a Winn deal. He's a good player and won't cost anything much.

Kotsay would be a great deal too because of the probable low cost.

Taveras from Colorado would be a nice option considering his age, salary, and history. There's a pretty good chance he'll bounce back next season and could be a fixture at the top or bottom of the order to help change the dynamic of the team. I don't know whether the Rockies are shopping him though, or what he'd cost if they are.

Either way, if the Sox pick up a CF I'd imagine it would be for a bench player that would allow the Sox to replace both Anderson and Wise in one move and in turn add another piece to the bench. The Sox will sink or swim with Swisher and Paulie out there hacking.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Would Fields, BA, Poreda and Broadway be enough to get DeJesus?

If not, what about Fields, BA, Poreda, Broadway and Brandon Allen?

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2008, 03:00 PM
Would Fields, BA, Poreda and Broadway be enough to get DeJesus?

If not, what about Fields, BA, Poreda, Broadway and Brandon Allen?

Why would the Royals want Fields? He's like a worse version of Alex Gordon.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 03:03 PM
Why would the Royals want Fields? He's like a worse version of Alex Gordon.

To DH? :D:

OK, how about BA, Poreda, Broadway and Brandon Allen?

Optipessimism
07-29-2008, 03:04 PM
Would Fields, BA, Poreda and Broadway be enough to get DeJesus?

If not, what about Fields, BA, Poreda, Broadway and Brandon Allen?
DeJesus isn't a superstar. He's more of a LF than a CF, even though he'd play CF with our park being so small, and he hits for average with a little pop and he gets on base. He doesn't have a whole lot of speed, but he's a clutch hitter.

I can't understand why someone would want to sell the farm for this guy. Aim a little higher. Selling that much for an above-average player to a divisional rival could very well get KW fired.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 03:10 PM
DeJesus isn't a superstar. He's more of a LF than a CF, even though he'd play CF with our park being so small, and he hits for average with a little pop and he gets on base. He doesn't have a whole lot of speed, but he's a clutch hitter.

I can't understand why someone would want to sell the farm for this guy. Aim a little higher. Selling that much for an above-average player to a divisional rival could very well get KW fired.

Well, with his age (28), batting average (.304), and contract (five years, just $2.5M this year), I think KC would justifiably expect a good return for him.

Am I advocating overpaying for him? Sure. But that's because I'm desperate to win another World Series.

I don't think any of the players I'm open to trading for DeJesus are the missing piece; losing any or all of them is not going to destroy the Sox future; the future of the club is Alexei, TCQ, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd and Jenks. (And if they pan out, Beckham and Jordan Danks.) DeJesus could be a part of that core, too.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 03:15 PM
I know it's deeppink, but DeJesus would be a good candidate to lead off for the Sox: .365 OBP, nine steals, .304 BA. Whether you have him hit at the top or bottom of the order, plug him in with Alexei and Cabrera, and the Sox suddenly have a decent string of good hitters who also can run the bases well.

Optipessimism
07-29-2008, 03:32 PM
Well, with his age (28), batting average (.304), and contract (five years, just $2.5M this year), I think KC would justifiably expect a good return for him.

Am I advocating overpaying for him? Sure. But that's because I'm desperate to win another World Series.

I don't think any of the players I'm open to trading for DeJesus are the missing piece; losing any or all of them is not going to destroy the Sox future; the future of the club is Alexei, TCQ, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd and Jenks. (And if they pan out, Beckham and Jordan Danks.) DeJesus could be a part of that core, too.
If you want to throw a package like that a ****ty team with a good CF, throw it at the Pirates and ask for Nate McLouth. He's better anyway, and if Fields hits 40 HR in the big leagues, Broadway becomes a decent 5th starter, and Poreda becomes a dominant lefty set-up man or closer, at least they're doing it to the Cubs, not the Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 03:57 PM
If you want to throw a package like that a ****ty team with a good CF, throw it at the Pirates and ask for Nate McLouth. He's better anyway, and if Fields hits 40 HR in the big leagues, Broadway becomes a decent 5th starter, and Poreda becomes a dominant lefty set-up man or closer, at least they're doing it to the Cubs, not the Sox.

Well of course I'd like McLouth. I'm not sure any package of Sox minor leaguers (inclusive of BA and Fields) would be enough to get him, though; He's better than DeJesus and he's a heck of a lot cheaper.

russ99
07-29-2008, 04:22 PM
Since we're talking about dealing with the Royals, how about Joey Gathright? He's got a boatload of potential, was a 5-tool prospect with the Rays and isn't playing every day in KC.

He'd come relatively cheaply and is a better "project" CF than Anderson.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Since we're talking about dealing with the Royals, how about Joey Gathright? He's got a boatload of potential, was a 5-tool prospect with the Rays and isn't playing every day in KC.

He'd come relatively cheaply and is a better "project" CF than Anderson.

He's on the DL right now as of July 24, so he can't be traded unless he's PTBNL, or unless he clears waivers, because he'd have to be dealt after the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.

Also, if he's a project, I'm not sure he'd help the Sox this year.

turners56
07-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Why would the Royals want Fields? He's like a worse version of Alex Gordon.

They could move him to first.

turners56
07-29-2008, 04:45 PM
PK and Swisher have been among the most disappointing hitters on the Sox this year. If the Sox acquired a CF who could hit well, it would allow the Sox to bench either Paulie or Swisher and/or platoon them at 1B based on matchups.

Who would the Sox have to give up to get:

A. Randy Winn from the Giants;

B. Mark Kotsay from the Braves;

C. David DeJesus from the Royals?

I think any one of these guys could help the Sox and would play good CF defense as well as hit for decent average and run the bases well.

Certainly the Royals have no desire to help a division foe and he's clearly the best of these three CFs. Still, everyone is available for the right price, so what would the Royals demand to acquire him?

Kotsay is the cheapest of them all obviously. It wouldn't take much to get him. DeJesus will cost the most considering he has a lot of years left on the contract. Winn is in the middle of it all and IMO, he's not worth it to give up a guy like Fields. I doubt that would even be the price though.

nug0hs
07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
A quality center fielder? We have one. His name is Brian Anderson.

Domeshot17
07-29-2008, 05:05 PM
too bad he doesn't have the Range, because I would be willing to Gamble on Jose Guillen if the pricey was nothing. Good power, alright average, gun for an arm. He has some baggage, but nothing that Carl Everett didn't have.

Optipessimism
07-29-2008, 05:34 PM
Since we're talking about dealing with the Royals, how about Joey Gathright? He's got a boatload of potential, was a 5-tool prospect with the Rays and isn't playing every day in KC.

He'd come relatively cheaply and is a better "project" CF than Anderson.
Gathright has pretty much no potential and was never a 5-tool prospect. 5-tool prospects means: hit for average, hit for power, strong arm, strong defense, speed. Gathright was a 2-tool prospect and aside from running, there's really nothing else he can do as his batting average is the result of his speed. So basically he's more of a 1-tool guy, because if you take his speed away he's probably a .240 hitter in the big leagues.

No thanks.

Optipessimism
07-29-2008, 05:42 PM
Well of course I'd like McLouth. I'm not sure any package of Sox minor leaguers (inclusive of BA and Fields) would be enough to get him, though; He's better than DeJesus and he's a heck of a lot cheaper.
You're right, I highly doubt we'd have what it takes to net McLouth without giving up a piece on the major league team, but the idea was basically, if you're going to vastly overpay in prospects for an above-average player, and send all those prospects to a division rival no less, you might as well vastly overpay for a much better player in a different division and in a different league where your prospects can't hurt your playoff chances.

I mean what is the point of dealing for a guy who might give you 2-3 more wins on a season and giving up players that might add another 3-5 wins to a team you have to face 18 times per year? I think that goes against a grinder rule or something.

Tragg
07-29-2008, 06:00 PM
PK and Swisher have been among the most disappointing hitters on the Sox this year. If the Sox acquired a CF who could hit well, it would allow the Sox to bench either Paulie or Swisher and/or platoon them at 1B based on matchups.

Who would the Sox have to give up to get:

A. Randy Winn from the Giants;

B. Mark Kotsay from the Braves;

C. David DeJesus from the Royals??"Quality"? And then you give us that list? Yikes
You're slipping, Frater...you usually give us some interesting choices -Figgins etc.
Sox shouldn't have to give much of anything for any of those. That's like "Joe Randa" from 05. How could we possibly give up more for one on that list than we got for, say, Iguchi. Mediocrity comes cheap.
I guess DeJesus is okay -- we had our own DeJesus - his name was Ryan Sweeney and we used him as a throw in.
The good news is that any on that list should be doable for the Sox...whether they'd help the team is a question....

Craig Grebeck
07-29-2008, 07:03 PM
Did someone compare Josh Fields to Alex Gordon?

Really?

Tragg
07-29-2008, 07:14 PM
If you want to throw a package like that a ****ty team with a good CF, throw it at the Pirates and ask for Nate McLouth..
A CF who flundered for his 2 first seasons and then turned it on at the age of 26 and 27-imagine that.

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2008, 07:30 PM
Did someone compare Josh Fields to Alex Gordon?

Really?

Explain what problem you have with this comparison. They both are overhyped guys that strike out a ton, don't hit for much average, and are suspect in the field. Gordon is better, as I state in my post, but they are both guys that don't appear destined for third base long.

Gordon is currently hitting .253 with 12 home runs (will end up with around 20) and is on pace for over 150 strike outs (he has 97 already). He's a better fielder, but not great...but again I said Gordon was better. Explain to me how this isn't comparable to what Fields will give us?

Craig Grebeck
07-29-2008, 07:34 PM
Explain what problem you have with this comparison. They both are overhyped guys that strike out a ton, don't hit for much average, and are suspect in the field. Gordon is better, as I state in my post, but they are both guys that don't appear destined for third base long.

Gordon is currently hitting .253 with 12 home runs (will end up with around 20) and is on pace for over 150 strike outs (he has 97 already). He's a better fielder, but not great...but again I said Gordon was better. Explain to me how this isn't comparable to what Fields will give us?
Gordon is WAY WAY WAY better in the field and a way better overall hitter. His walk rate has jumped this season and he was once considered the best prospect in baseball. He went straight from college to AA and put up absolutely absurd numbers in his only season in the minor leagues. I have no doubt he will turn into a .275/.360/.550 third baseman in the next 1-2 seasons.

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Gordon is WAY WAY WAY better in the field and a way better overall hitter. His walk rate has jumped this season and he was once considered the best prospect in baseball. He went straight from college to AA and put up absolutely absurd numbers in his only season in the minor leagues. I have no doubt he will turn into a .275/.360/.550 third baseman in the next 1-2 seasons.

Fair enough. I guess time will tell. While Fields doesn't have the pedigree of Gordon, at one time he was very highly regarded as well. Most people think Gordon will emerge, as you said, but I get the sense that many people think he should have arrived by now. But again this only strengthens my original point, the Royals already have a high potential player at third that has yet to do much at the big league level....I can't see them having any desire to bring on another (and a lesser one at that) with Fields.

Craig Grebeck
07-29-2008, 07:39 PM
Fair enough. I guess time will tell. While Fields doesn't have the pedigree of Gordon, at one time he was very highly regarded as well. Most people think Gordon will emerge, as you said, but I get the sense that many people think he should have arrived by now. But again this only strengthens my original point, the Royals already have a high potential player at third that has yet to do much at the big league level....I can't see them having any desire to bring on another (and a lesser one at that) with Fields.
I also don't think they would have any interest, as they already possess a player with a good stick (a better one than Fields mind you) with no glove, Billy Butler.

sullythered
07-29-2008, 07:42 PM
Gordon is WAY WAY WAY better in the field and a way better overall hitter. His walk rate has jumped this season and he was once considered the best prospect in baseball. He went straight from college to AA and put up absolutely absurd numbers in his only season in the minor leagues. I have no doubt he will turn into a .275/.360/.550 third baseman in the next 1-2 seasons.
I'll tell you how both are VERY similar...

Both guys are: OH-VER-RATE-ED, clap, clap, clap clap clap.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 07:59 PM
"Quality"? And then you give us that list? Yikes
You're slipping, Frater...you usually give us some interesting choices -Figgins etc.
Sox shouldn't have to give much of anything for any of those. That's like "Joe Randa" from 05. How could we possibly give up more for one on that list than we got for, say, Iguchi. Mediocrity comes cheap.
I guess DeJesus is okay -- we had our own DeJesus - his name was Ryan Sweeney and we used him as a throw in.
The good news is that any on that list should be doable for the Sox...whether they'd help the team is a question....

I guess I should have qualified what I meant by "quality."

Basically I mean average to above average with the bat and glove in CF. I also purposely picked players from teams that are "sellers."

Obviously I'd like a star, like Beltran, but the Mets are contenders (at least they think of themselves that way).

A young star in the making like McLouth would require giving up Quentin or Danks or Ramirez. That's not something the Sox should do.

Vernon Wells probably would cost the Sox major league players that would result in a net talent loss, or at best a net wash. Ditto Rios.

Josh Hamilton is as untouchable as any player in the game.

Adam Jones is probably part of the Orioles rebuilding plans.

Iguchi went for cheap because he couldn't be offered arbitration and therefore couldn't generate draft picks. He also was a pending free agent. DeJesus is signed cheap for several years, not unlike Swisher. But I think he's a better player than Swisher.

It would be nice to have Sweeney, Gio and DLS instead of Swisher right now. We might have been able to use them plus other prospects to get a real star CF, like a Vernon Wells or Alex Rios.

Brian26
07-29-2008, 08:09 PM
Obviously I'd like a star, like Beltran, but the Mets are contenders (at least they think of themselves that way).


They're in first place now, so I guess they have that right.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 08:25 PM
They're in first place now, so I guess they have that right.

I guess one's perspective depends on what one thinks of Manuel. I didn't think he was as terrible as others thought, and I think the Mets are the favorites for the NL East. Others think Manuel is just one step up from Bevington, and that Manuel would doom the 27 Yankees. I was trying to preempt snarky comments about Manuel.

Tragg
07-29-2008, 09:24 PM
Frater

I really don't tihnk it's that much of a stretch to believe that Brian Anderson can hit to a level of Katsay....that's a mighty low bar and it really isn't saying much. And Brian has more pop (he's good for 20-25) than those guys on your list. That still may not be good enough to be a starting CF - but good enough to not trade for one of those on your list. He plays superior defense - I don't understand these emotional objections to letting him play (much less the platooning with a journeyman like Wise).

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 09:47 PM
Frater

I really don't tihnk it's that much of a stretch to believe that Brian Anderson can hit to a level of Katsay....that's a mighty low bar and it really isn't saying much. And Brian has more pop (he's good for 20-25) than those guys on your list. That still may not be good enough to be a starting CF - but good enough to not trade for one of those on your list. He plays superior defense - I don't understand these emotional objections to letting him play (much less the platooning with a journeyman like Wise).

Hey, I'm in the "play BA" camp. I started this thread to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak:

Some object to benching Paulie because they just don't like BA.

I think some use a fear of BA as an excuse not to bench Paulie.

SoxNation05
07-29-2008, 11:44 PM
I know it's deeppink, but DeJesus would be a good candidate to lead off for the Sox: .365 OBP, nine steals, .304 BA. Whether you have him hit at the top or bottom of the order, plug him in with Alexei and Cabrera, and the Sox suddenly have a decent string of good hitters who also can run the bases well.
If we trade for him I think it'd be very likely he'll be leading off.

CF DeJesus
SS Cabrera
LF Quentin
RF Dye
DH Thome/PK
1B PK/Swisher
3B Crede (when returns)
C Pierzynski
2B Alexei

seventyseven
07-30-2008, 02:27 PM
With TB close to acquiring Jason Bay, what about Konerko/Broadway for Crawford?

JB98
07-30-2008, 02:51 PM
With TB close to acquiring Jason Bay, what about Konerko/Broadway for Crawford?

Maybe if the Tampa Bay GM smokes crack before taking a call from KW.....

asindc
07-30-2008, 02:53 PM
Maybe if the Tampa Bay GM smokes crack before taking a call from KW.....

True that. Crawford is one of the top-3 leadoff men in baseball, despite his down year. No way do we get him for just Konerko and Broadway.

Optipessimism
07-30-2008, 02:58 PM
Frater

I really don't tihnk it's that much of a stretch to believe that Brian Anderson can hit to a level of Katsay....that's a mighty low bar and it really isn't saying much. And Brian has more pop (he's good for 20-25) than those guys on your list. That still may not be good enough to be a starting CF - but good enough to not trade for one of those on your list. He plays superior defense - I don't understand these emotional objections to letting him play (much less the platooning with a journeyman like Wise).
.282/.337/.414 for a career spanning 12 seasons in the majors is not anything close to a "mighty low bar" for a CF.

Kotsay is hitting .290/.336/.394 this year. I'm an admitted FOBA, but if Brian had Kotsay's bat we'd have never traded for Swisher.

If Mark Kotsay isn't capable of starting, then why has he been a starting CF in the Major Leagues since 1998?

And no, Brian Anderson isn't good for 20-25 longballs. That's his ceiling, which he has yet to show off.

It's Dankerific
07-30-2008, 02:59 PM
Frater

I really don't tihnk it's that much of a stretch to believe that Brian Anderson can hit to a level of Katsay....that's a mighty low bar and it really isn't saying much. And Brian has more pop (he's good for 20-25) than those guys on your list. That still may not be good enough to be a starting CF - but good enough to not trade for one of those on your list. He plays superior defense - I don't understand these emotional objections to letting him play (much less the platooning with a journeyman like Wise).

Hey, I'm in the "play BA" camp. I started this thread to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak:

Some object to benching Paulie because they just don't like BA.

I think some use a fear of BA as an excuse not to bench Paulie.

If the most recent quotes from ozzie on the official website are true, I'm pretty depressed. In extremely limited playing time, BA continues (especially recently) to get the job done. but this is what ozzie said (paraphrased cause I don't know about quoting people here) Who am I gonna put in CF, Brian? Hello.

*** does that mean? Hello?

Optipessimism
07-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Maybe if the Tampa Bay GM smokes crack before taking a call from KW.....
Yep. If KW can talk to their GM without first being asked if he's a cop, that deal doesn't happen.

It's Dankerific
07-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Yep. If KW can talk to their GM without first being asked if he's a cop, that deal doesn't happen.

31 other teams would LOVE to have PK as their first baseman.

palehozenychicty
07-30-2008, 03:15 PM
31 other teams would LOVE to have PK as their first baseman.


Not the Angels. :tongue:

Optipessimism
07-30-2008, 03:23 PM
Not the Angels. :tongue:
...but the East Westfield Beer Angels of the Independent League would love him.

palehozenychicty
07-30-2008, 04:26 PM
...but the East Westfield Beer Angels of the Independent League would love him.

True! :D:

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 05:25 PM
31 other teams would LOVE to have PK as their first baseman.

I would love for one of them to have PK as their first baseman. :D: