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View Full Version : Fan behavior in sports is getting worse.


It's Time
07-29-2008, 11:33 AM
It's not a Sox/Cubs thing, or a Bears/Packers thing, it's just a rampant problem in general regarding teams fans. I thought this was a good thread on what happened at Miller park last night.

Not sure what the answer is but something needs to be done.

http://brewersfandemonium.yuku.com/topic/14543/t/Crowd-behavior.html

TommyJohn
07-29-2008, 11:41 AM
This is something that has been going on for years. Fan behavior in general is just getting nastier. I don't mean all fans, of course, but the bad, obnoxious ones just seem to be getting worse. There was an article in SI about this quite a few years ago. One part of the article wrote of a group of Giants fans that jingled car keys at a player (don't remember who) because a teammate (I believe Lenny Dykstra) was in a bad car accident after the player's bachelor party.

The same article was prefaced by a memorable quote from Joe DiMaggio: "In my day, the worst we ever heard was 'ya bum, ya.'"

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 11:44 AM
Bill James writes a good article in his Historical Baseball Abstract about how the late 70's and early 80's had a rash of fan violence and the steps baseball took to crack down on stadium incidents.

None of that, though, is gonna prevent the kind of garbage like happened at that party with the Sox guy getting stomped by Cub fans.

Mix too much liquor and *******s and trouble brews.

Jerko
07-29-2008, 11:54 AM
I don't know, people have been getting drunk at games for years and it never seemed this bad before. My theory is, people spend so much on a night at the ballpark that they think they have the right to do whatever they want. "I paid 200 bucks tonight, I can swear if I want to"; crap like that. Being hammered doesn't help obviously, but I don't think it's the sole cause of moronic behavior. People are just, well, morons sometimes.

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't know, people have been getting drunk at games for years and it never seemed this bad before. My theory is, people spend so much on a night at the ballpark that they think they have the right to do whatever they want. "I paid 200 bucks tonight, I can swear if I want to"; crap like that. Being hammered doesn't help obviously, but I don't think it's the sole cause of moronic behavior. People are just, well, morons sometimes.

I believe that things are getting worse at the ballpark, for sure.

But there's ways to fix that.

More ushers, less tolerance for bad behavior (quicker trigger to the drunk tank), earlier beer sale cutoff.

It's how the league "Fixed" the problem in the early 80's.

As far as the "being hammered doesn't help but it's not the sole cause." You're probably right. However, I would suspect the majority of these kinds of incidents DO involve people who are legally intoxicated. Not saying they aren't *******s anyway, but if you cut alcohol out of the equation (at least, slightly) and have a zero tolerance policy for bad/drunken behavior, the incidents will probably abate.

Jerko
07-29-2008, 12:02 PM
I believe that things are getting worse at the ballpark, for sure.

But there's ways to fix that.

More ushers, less tolerance for bad behavior (quicker trigger to the drunk tank), earlier beer sale cutoff.

It's how the league "Fixed" the problem in the early 80's.

As far as the "being hammered doesn't help but it's not the sole cause." You're probably right. However, I would suspect the majority of these kinds of incidents DO involve people who are legally intoxicated. Not saying they aren't *******s anyway, but if you cut alcohol out of the equation (at least, slightly) and have a zero tolerance policy for bad/drunken behavior, the incidents will probably abate.

I was at the last afternoon game (10-8 win vs. Texas) and there were a bunch of guys jumping in and out of the handicap area (the area between the OF seats and the concourse), and just standing there in everybody's way. Not one usher was to be found on the entire left side of the outfield. If a fight would have started there it would have been a long one.

twentywontowin
07-29-2008, 12:05 PM
It's the sense of entitlement that is ruining everything good in this country.

"I paid for it, so I can do whatever the **** I want."

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 12:08 PM
It's the sense of entitlement that is ruining everything good in this country.

"I paid for it, so I can do whatever the **** I want."

You mean, like extra meat?

It's Time
07-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Check this quote out from a Brewers fan who was there last night.

I do not blame anyone for not going to the Cubs game, the Cubs fans are so antagonistic it's hard to have a good time. Here's my recap in left field bleachers.

Inning 1) Two full glasses of beers spills from the deck above (Metavante or Terrace not sure), drenching Brewers fans.

Inning 2) Repeat Inning 1.

Some time around then, Braun throws a ball into the stands. A Cub fan waits for the second pitch of the inning, and throws the ball at Braun, and it lands at his feet. They are stunned when they get tossed.

Another full glass of beer falls from the deck above, and then we see foam spits. Like someones shaking bottle. Awesome.

Cubs fan dumps beer ona Brewers fan. She gets tossed, and decides to moon the stands. Classy.

Some more beer dumped on this Brett Favre looking guy, 3 Cubs fan kicked out, on Brewers fan who retaliated.

It wasn't very fun.

twentywontowin
07-29-2008, 12:09 PM
You mean, like extra meat?

Nobody pays for extra meat. It's not on the menu.

KnightSox
07-29-2008, 12:34 PM
Anytime 40,000 + people get together, the bad will always emerge, its the law of averages. I don't think people are any worse now then they were 50 -100 years ago, we live in an age of instant news, and every incident is immediately publicized.

Does alcohol make it worse? probably, but I believe you are who you are, alcohol just amplifies your personality.

daveeym
07-29-2008, 12:43 PM
Alcohol, cubs, fan behavior, seating issues, aspergers and extra meat = self-righteous flame war. :popcorn:

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 12:52 PM
Does alcohol make it worse? probably, but I believe you are who you are, alcohol just amplifies your personality.

Oversimplification.

Road rage, for instance. Does it take a specific kind of ******* to take part in road rage (like bashing people's hoods in, I mean, not the "flipping someone off" kind of road rage)? Absolutely.

However, to understate the effect of driving on road rage is ridiculous.

Alcohol's the same way. I'm all for drinking and love to drink at all times constantly. However, just because someone's an ******* to begin with doesn't mean that it's not the alcohol that makes them worse.

Fights in ballparks were at alarmingly high rates in the late 70's and early 80's. MLB ballparks cracked down on alcohol abuse in the ballpark and fights decreased. It's not rocket science.

Anyone who's been to a bar knows that, yes, only *******s get in fights. But on the other hand, those *******s don't get into nearly as many fights while sober as while drunk.

Dub25
07-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Obviously the Brewer fans making fun of the kid was way out of line. However, all the other complaints about Cub fans sounds a lot like what we always say. Problem is, our media seems to give Cub fans a free pass all the time and as soon as a Sox fan does something the whole fan base gets lumped in as being idiots.

Ava83
07-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Okay I was at the Cubs/Brewers game last night (took out clients from work) and the cubs fans where crazy obnoxious. Tons of local police and everytime you looked you saw a cub fan getting kicked out..or being picked up off the ground and then kicked out. I was a little embarrassed to be from Chicago (I did see one Sox fan! I should have worn my shirt!)

kittle42
07-29-2008, 04:23 PM
Okay I was at the Cubs/Brewers game last night (took out clients from work) and the cubs fans where crazy obnoxious. Tons of local police and everytime you looked you saw a cub fan getting kicked out..or being picked up off the ground and then kicked out. I was a little embarrassed to be from Chicago (I did see one Sox fan! I should have worn my shirt!)

Their sense of entitlement is second to none. Hand in hand with that is their belief everyone loves them, and are Satan if they do not.

cws05champ
07-29-2008, 04:47 PM
Their sense of entitlement is second to none. Hand in hand with that is their belief everyone loves them, and are Satan if they do not.
And for no reason. That is what gets me. They havn't won anything in forever and act as if they are the Yankees. The Greatest fans in the World my ass.

I'm sure there were many obnoxious Brewers fans there as well, but I'm betting it is more in retaliation to the Flub fans taking over their stadium all the time and acting a fool. When you go to an opposing ballpark, wear your colors, cheer for your team but don't be an *******. I guess that is just too much to ask of some people.

Law11
07-29-2008, 04:53 PM
For the most part the Cub Fans I know are normal baseball fans who love ther team. But just the other day Im driving (now I have vanity plates with a Sox message intertwined into the plate as well as one of those sox see thru window stickers on my back window) pretty obvious Im supporting my Sox, when this goofball starts riding my tail honking at me, I look and he's holding his nose, I think ok there guy and focus back on the road. Now Im at a stoplight when this guy is honking again this time with a Cub W flag (3x5 flag) waving it out his window. He's screaming out his window the Sox Suck and go back to the South side loser...

I let it be having my 1 year old in the car I wasnt escalating this but then the irony came in.. To my right pulls up a car playing, Dont Stop believing
(I kid u not) and the girl in that car has a WS Sox car flag (brown in color now) flying on her back window.

I thought it was poetic justice.
I just looked at the guy through my drivers side mirror and pointed to my right.

he decided flipping me off would show me..

Unreal the gall of some of these fans.. They havent won ANYTHING, EVER in their lifetime but still feel it's their right to act as if they have.

kittle42
07-29-2008, 05:26 PM
And for no reason. That is what gets me. They havn't won anything in forever and act as if they are the Yankees. The Greatest fans in the World my ass.

I'm sure there were many obnoxious Brewers fans there as well, but I'm betting it is more in retaliation to the Flub fans taking over their stadium all the time and acting a fool. When you go to an opposing ballpark, wear your colors, cheer for your team but don't be an *******. I guess that is just too much to ask of some people.

This is why I don't understand the Cubs fan hatred toward Cardinals fans. Say what you will about the intelligence of the average St. Louis fan, but they are genarally a well-behaved fanbase while being monstrously obessed with their team and somehow not totally obnoxious.

TommyJohn
07-29-2008, 05:30 PM
This is why I don't understand the Cubs fan hatred toward Cardinals fans. Say what you will about the intelligence of the average St. Louis fan, but they are genarally a well-behaved fanbase while being monstrously obessed with their team and somehow not totally obnoxious.

Don Denkinger and his family might disagree.

cws05champ
07-29-2008, 10:07 PM
I particularly liked this quote:


It is one thing to cheer for your team but the sheer number of Cubs fans standing up and taunting the people around them in my section is unbearable and leads to the fights and arguments. No other fan base causes so much animosity. It dooesn't matter what the score is, what the standings are, or who wins, every game is a bad experience because the Cubs fans act like such jerks. Cardinals fans don't do it, Twins fans don't do it, heck even the White Sox fans at the exhibition games weren't bad. It is like the Cub fans win an award after the game if they can be the biggest a hole in the ball park.

Gee sounds familiar....

Frontman
07-29-2008, 11:16 PM
I've never understood the need to be a jerk. Act like you've been there before.

Waitaminit. That might have something to do with it. :o:

Seriously, fans in general have been getting ruder and ruder; to both fans and the stars/athletes themselves.

Case in point. Right now David Tennant, who plays the current Doctor on Doctor Who; and Patrick Stewart (Captain Picard from Star Trek) are both performing with the Royal Shakespeare Company in Hamlet. The RSC has made it policy that no Star Trek or Doctor Who merchandise is allowed into the theatre to be autographed, no dressing up in Trek or Who costumes. It is up to the performer themselves if they would sign anyway that they are not required to sign as part of their contract with the Company. I believe this was suggested by Patrick Stewart, who once was upset during one performance in the past where an entire section dressed in Trek gear and was heckling/distracting during the play.

There are a number of fans PISSED that the mere suggestion and that these stars "owe it to their fanbase" to sign; that it shouldn't matter how many items a person asks to be signed and that the star should sign EVERYTHING.

I was thinking couldn't a person just of been happy to see two good actors peform for the Royal Shakespeare Company and if lucky enough, go home with their program signed?

Its not just athletes getting out of control (which, I was sick of hearing about the Peoria Chiefs playing at "the Friendly Confines" all day today in ESPN updates on the radio) but the fans who can't seem to get it in check.

I thought it was great tonight during the Sox/Twins game to see a Dad grab a home run ball and hand it to his kid, dressed in Twins gear.

It was Brian Anderson's home run shot.

That's how to act at a ballgame. Not some moronic "throw it back, throw it back" chant. Sit, enjoy the game, cheer and boo. That "We're better than you" behavior is moronic.

itsnotrequired
07-29-2008, 11:23 PM
Case in point. Right now David Tennant, who plays the current Doctor on Doctor Who; and Patrick Stewart (Captain Picard from Star Trek) are both performing with the Royal Shakespeare Company in Hamlet. The RSC has made it policy that no Star Trek or Doctor Who merchandise is allowed into the theatre to be autographed, no dressing up in Trek or Who costumes. It is up to the performer themselves if they would sign anyway that they are not required to sign as part of their contract with the Company. I believe this was suggested by Patrick Stewart, who once was upset during one performance in the past where an entire section dressed in Trek gear and was heckling/distracting during the play.

There are a number of fans PISSED that the mere suggestion and that these stars "owe it to their fanbase" to sign; that it shouldn't matter how many items a person asks to be signed and that the star should sign EVERYTHING.

I was thinking couldn't a person just of been happy to see two good actors peform for the Royal Shakespeare Company and if lucky enough, go home with their program signed?

Take it to http://www.davidtennantpatrickstewertbigwhinersinteractiv e.com (http://www.davidtennantpatrickstewertbigwhiners.com/)

Hitmen77
07-30-2008, 09:37 AM
I think the problem with more obnoxious fans reflects our society as a whole. People in general are more obnoxious today. So many people are self centered, me-first, and have the attitude of "anyone who doesn't share my views is an idiot". Some of the spoiled brat kids growing up in our country over the last few decades are now obnoxious, self-centered adults. It isn't just about sports - it's lots of things. Think about how poisoned much of our political discussion is today.

Also, watching sports has become WAYYY over-emphasized in our society today. People always loved sports and were die hard fans - and that's great. But geez, now it's so over the top and over hyped. Some people take it way too seriously and too personally.

As far as Cub fans go, their popularity has simply gone their head. The younger Cub fans who act this way have grown up in the post 1984 Cubs-hype era and don't remember when their team was treated in the media as just another team. They've been drinking blue kool-aid their whole lives thinking their team is the world's favorite. So naturally, they go strutting to other cities like they own the place and start acting like asses to the hometown fans because they think they're the best fans in the world and they want to let everyone know it by being as loud and obnoxious as possible.

It isn't just Sox fans or Brewers fans who think Cub fans are obnoxious. Check out the comments posted on this article from when the Cubs visited Arizona last week. They sound very familiar.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/28392

hula
07-30-2008, 10:29 AM
I live out of state now and only get to Chicago every few years. Last time I was there we went to two Sox games. One lower deck (had a fine experience) and one upper deck. I was shocked at not only how drunk and rude our fans got, but seeing ushers walk away when it got too rowdy for them to control. Sorry, but this is unacceptable! It is out of hand and I don't like it. I grew up going to Comiskey and between the Andy Fran ushers and the police they really kept you in your place.

We went to Camden earlier this month and I got lip for wearing a Sox shirt from not only Orioles fans, but their employees, some who were even my age. I went to fan assistance and complained. The Sox weren't even there to boot! I'm going back in August when the Sox are and have to say I'm a bit tentative. It's one thing to rib an opposing fan and quite another to be rude and obnoxious (or in the case of the little girls birthday party, kick someone's eye out). This behavior is such bulls**t and the stadiums really need to get it under control!!

cws05champ
07-30-2008, 01:04 PM
And it continues. Three more Cub fans arrested for beating up a Brewer fan:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080730-chicago-cubs-fans-milwaukee-brewers,1,3245722.story

monica73174
07-30-2008, 02:00 PM
I was at the Brewers game last night and the Cubs fans were so awful. It was embarrasing to be from Chicago. All I could say to the Brewers fans was don't worry they will choke when it counts.

all*star quentin
07-30-2008, 02:08 PM
Now Im at a stoplight when this guy is honking again this time with a Cub W flag (3x5 flag) waving it out his window. He's screaming out his window the Sox Suck and go back to the South side loser...

I let it be having my 1 year old in the car I wasnt escalating this but then the irony came in..

Thanks for the heads up...reminds me to get their plate #. You can report this incident to the police.

itsnotrequired
07-30-2008, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the heads up...reminds me to get their plate #. You can report this incident to the police.

I could spend the whole day calling the police regarding bad driving I see.

Soxaholic
07-30-2008, 11:21 PM
It doesn't help that Sportservice sends beer vendors from Wrigley/ The Cell to Milkaukee to help fuel the drunks. The vendors only make commission on the beer and tips. Of course they are going to try to sell as much beer as possible.

nasox
07-31-2008, 02:34 PM
Anytime 40,000 + people get together, the bad will always emerge, its the law of averages. I don't think people are any worse now then they were 50 -100 years ago, we live in an age of instant news, and every incident is immediately publicized.

Does alcohol make it worse? probably, but I believe you are who you are, alcohol just amplifies your personality.

40,000 people used to get together for Grateful Dead and Phish concerts. Nothing would happen (well, maybe some guy would OD on bad drugs but...). Then again, pot and beer are two different things.