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View Full Version : Paul Konerko, what do you think? Part deaux


Daver
07-26-2008, 05:01 PM
Continued from the closed thread.

Adele_H
07-26-2008, 05:17 PM
Hindsight 20/20 and all that.

In the previous incarnation of the thread people were talking about economic opportunity and such Even as cardcarrying member of the old "Frank Thomas is a HOF; Kong ain't so great" club...

one thing I refuse to do is blame the Sox for re-signing Konerko when they did - coming off the 2005 Awesomeness, when Konerko along with Buehle was THE man & face of the franchise.

(Frank Thomas never embraced that role and it obvious that he was on his way out of the organization with KW getting his way, plus it's easy to say now that his ankle wasn't as bad as it seemed but back then there was simply no way to know that.)

So naturally Sox felt comfortable giving arguably a sub-market contract to a popular Postseason hero, still only what 28 or 29 years old at the time... whose "clean" power was only going to increase in value as MLB was expected to implement a more strict drug-testing policy going forward.

Frater Perdurabo
07-26-2008, 05:26 PM
Hindsight 20/20 and all that.

In the previous incarnation of the thread people were talking about economic opportunity and such Even as cardcarrying member of the old "Frank Thomas is a HOF; Kong ain't so great" club...

one thing I refuse to do is blame the Sox for re-signing Konerko when they did - coming off the 2005 Awesomeness, when Konerko along with Buehle was THE man & face of the franchise.

(Frank Thomas never embraced that role and it obvious that he was on his way out of the organization with KW getting his way, plus it's easy to say now that his ankle wasn't as bad as it seemed but back then there was simply no way to know that.)

So naturally Sox felt comfortable giving arguably a sub-market contract to a popular Postseason hero, still only what 28 or 29 years old at the time... whose "clean" power was only going to increase in value as MLB was expected to implement a more strict drug-testing policy going forward.

Since you brought it up, I thought signing him to that contract was a mistake at the time, even though Paulie was pretty darn good in 2004 and 2005 (and then showed himself to have earned the contract with his "career year" in 2006). As it turns out, as of right now 2004-2006 was his "peak," which coincides EXACTLY with the normal, average peak for most non-PED hitters. I thought that by 2009 or 2010, the Sox would be getting less production from him. I didn't think it would start in 2007.

That being said, I hope that he rebounds for the rest of this year and throughout 2009 and 2010.

Put aside 2007 and the first four months of 2008. From here on out, just give us an .850 OPS, Paulie. That's all I ask.

Adele_H
07-26-2008, 05:30 PM
I thought that by 2009 or 2010, the Sox would be getting less production from him. I didn't think it would start in 2007.

.


See, even you admit that you didn't expect him to plummet in 2007-2008... so how can you blame the Sox?

I don't think they thought he'd give them 950 OPS in 2010, either but back in 2005 it didn't matter.

The point of my post was simply to point out that it's how it's done a lot of times. Just as hey I thought Jose Contreras would never be better than he was earlier this year in early June, but do I blame the Sox for not trading him? Hell, no, it;'s

Frater Perdurabo
07-26-2008, 05:33 PM
See, even you admit that you didn't expect him to plummet in 2007-2008... so how can you blame the Sox?

I don't think they thought he'd give them 950 OPS in 2010, either but back in 2005 it didn't matter.

The point of my post was simply to point out that it's how it's done a lot of times. Just as hey I thought Jose Contreras would never be better than he was earlier this year in early June, but do I blame the Sox for not trading him? Hell, no, it;'s

My fear at the time is that the money spent on Paulie would keep the Sox from retaining the core of starting pitchers, particularly Buehrle and Garland. Thankfully they bit the bullet and kept Buehrle (after he made some very generous concessions just to stay), but they dealt Garland, which I think might turn out to be a mistake.

Daver
07-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Thankfully they bit the bullet and kept Buehrle (after he made some very generous concessions just to stay), but they dealt Garland, which I think might turn out to be a mistake.

It's already turned out to be a mistake.

hawkjt
07-26-2008, 06:11 PM
Garland is what..8-6 with a 4.2 era on a great team?
I liked Jonny as much as anyone but Floyds numbers are better this year so far.. And Cabrera is a better offensive ss than Juan. So, I can hardly say that it was some kind of big mistake. At the end of the day...Garland was not going to be re-signed for huge bucks to the sox. Just like OC. advantage Sox.
I still think signing PK was the right thing to do. Attendance ever since has been strong partly cus the org. stepped up and kept fan favs.
I am a bit worried about PK's apparent weight loss here in the middle of the season..is he worrying himself into a rack of bones? And no, I do not think he ever took HGH or anything. I think he must be frayed into no appetite or something. It is sad. I still believe he will come back to contribute this season. People were burying Jose and JD last year and both have come back.

gr8mexico
07-26-2008, 08:39 PM
Trading Konerko seems like a challenge. Why not just place him on waivers and have another team pay his salary. Im sure the Dbacks would pick him up. The Sox can always pull him back just like what the Red Sox did to Manny.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 08:44 PM
It's already turned out to be a mistake.

It seems to me the main purpose of the Garland trade was to

a.) Open up a spot for Floyd in the rotation

b.) Upgrade the draft pick when Cabrera and Garland both refuse arbitration

Which of those hasn't worked out?

Brian26
07-26-2008, 08:48 PM
At the end of the day...Garland was not going to be re-signed for huge bucks to the sox.

I asked Buehrle point-blank at Soxfest if he thought Garland would have signed with the Sox and if he wanted to stay here. Buehrle said Garland didn't want to leave and his heart was here.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 08:49 PM
I asked Buehrle point-blank at Soxfest if he thought Garland would have signed with the Sox and if he wanted to stay here. Buehrle said Garland didn't want to leave and his heart was here.

I heard Garland say the same thing while talking on the cellphone at O'Hare. Then again, I think he was talking to Billy Beane. He kept mention OBP and XYZ.

Brian26
07-26-2008, 08:51 PM
I asked him that in one of the seminars on Saturday- I'm not claiming it was a private conversation or anything.

Garland would be the #2 starter on the Sox right now. I don't trust Vazquez to win a big game to save his life.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 08:52 PM
I asked him that in one of the seminars on Saturday- I'm not claiming it was a private conversation or anything.

Garland would be the #2 starter on the Sox right now. I don't trust Vazquez to win a big game to save his life.

Ahead of who? Burly or Danks?

Anyway, if Garland were our number 2 starter, and maybe he would be, that would mean we have a really really really really ****ty rotation.

Really ****ty.

And hell, maybe we do :shrug:. Because it is possible that a guy with a mid 4.00's ERA, 57 K's to 42 BB's and a 1.45 WHIP would be the...second best pitcher on our team?....ugh.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 08:56 PM
What it boils down to is, in terms of any measure of pitching, Garland is at best a slight upgrade over Contreras or Vazquez. SLIGHT.

And Vazquez has a heck of a lot more room to improve than Garland, because, you know, Vazquez doesn't walk essentially the same number of people he strikes out, or give up ****loads of hits.

Brian26
07-26-2008, 08:57 PM
Ahead of who? Burly or Danks?

I was thinking Danks. Just going by how the guys have been pitching over the last month with Vazquez looking like typical Vazquez (great stuff, but can't pitch over his mistakes), Floyd getting knocked around pretty hard and Contreras looking like long-relief bullpen fodder.

I was thinking Buehrle-Garland-Danks-Vazquez-Floyd. Moot point I guess.

Daver
07-26-2008, 08:58 PM
Ahead of who? Burly or Danks?

Anyway, if Garland were our number 2 starter, and maybe he would be, that would mean we have a really really really really ****ty rotation.

Really ****ty.

And hell, maybe we do :shrug:. Because it is possible that a guy with a mid 4.00's ERA, 57 K's to 42 BB's and a 1.45 WHIP would be the...second best pitcher on our team?....ugh.

You can't assume he would have those same numbers if he was pitching in Chicago.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 09:00 PM
I was thinking Danks. Just going by how the guys have been pitching over the last month with Vazquez looking like typical Vazquez (great stuff, but can't pitch over his mistakes), Floyd getting knocked around pretty hard and Contreras looking like long-relief bullpen fodder.

I was thinking Buehrle-Garland-Danks-Vazquez-Floyd. Moot point I guess.

Garland wouldn't upgrade this rotation significantly. Plus if Garland broke camp with this team, Floyd would likely have started the season in the minors and not have a chance to build any sort of momentum or confidence the likes of which he's shown so far.

Basically, what the Garland/Cabrera trade boils down to is this:

1.) Is Cabrera an upgrade over Uribe?
(absolutely)

2.) Would you rather have Garland in the rotation for this entire season or Floyd?
(Floyd)

...oh and there's the draft pick thing.

I think it's pretty silly to act like it's a Garland or Cabrera thing, when it's clearly a Garland or Cabrera AND Floyd.

UNLESS you think that we could have just called up Floyd when Contreras got hurt and he'd start pitching like he's been pitching for us all year. In which case.... ok.....

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 09:01 PM
You can't assume he would have those same numbers if he was pitching in Chicago.

You mean if instead of spending 4 months in a pitcher's park in Anaheim he instead had spent it pitching in a hitter's park in Chicago?

Sure. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, it's not like the #'s he put up his last two seasons with the White Sox were much different from what he's doing right now in Anaheim.

2006: Mediocre

2007: Mediocre

2008: Mediocre (at best)

:shrug:

the only thing that has dropped are his k and BB numbers. Which is something that will happen as pitchers get older.

HawkDJ
07-26-2008, 09:05 PM
I'm really struggling to see how anyone can think Garland for Cabrera is a failure. If anything, it's a draw.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm really struggling to see how anyone can think Garland for Cabrera is a failure. If anything, it's a draw.

Well the argument would be that now that we have a short-staffed rotation, trading away pitching seems like a bad idea.

I tend to agree with that in principle, but I think it overlooks the fact that if Kenny hadn't created a rotation spot for Floyd, we wouldn't have him as an asset at this point in the season, and we'd be looking at Floyd to do what Clayton Richard is doing right now.

But then again :shrug:

Brian26
07-26-2008, 09:07 PM
Garland wouldn't upgrade this rotation significantly. Plus if Garland broke camp with this team, Floyd would likely have started the season in the minors and not have a chance to build any sort of momentum or confidence the likes of which he's shown so far.

All your points are good. I disagree that Garland wouldn't be a significant upgrade over Contreras. It's hard to study this in a vacuum, but I wonder if Contreras would have been in the rotation to start the season (or even on the team) after the disaster of '07. It'd be nice to have JG over Contreras. Looks like we caught lightning in a bottle with Jose for the first two months of 08.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 09:11 PM
All your points are good. I disagree that Garland wouldn't be a significant upgrade over Contreras. It's hard to study this in a vacuum, but I wonder if Contreras would have been in the rotation to start the season (or even on the team) after the disaster of '07. It'd be nice to have JG over Contreras. Looks like we caught lightning in a bottle with Jose for the first two months of 08.

Well the problem with the Contreras and Garland argument is that (when healthy) they give you two different things--

Garland is vastly superior to Contreras in terms of consistency and reliability.

Contreras is vastly superior to Garland in terms of...well...ability to pitch on any given afternoon.

The question is, on a team like the 08 White Sox is it better to have a guy who will give you mediocrity such that you can rely on mediocrity or better to have a guy who is capable of tossing a gem but also might blow the **** up.

I don't know that there's an answer theres. I would tend to go with Garland over Contreras, but the thing is, if Garland were on the White Sox to begin this season it's not like Contreras would have hit the pen.

We'd still have JC and JG in our rotation. So the question is JC and JG or JC and GF?

I'll go with the latter.

Daver
07-26-2008, 09:12 PM
the only thing that has dropped are his k and BB numbers. Which is something that will happen as pitchers get older.

Randy Johnson disagrees with you.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 10:01 PM
Randy Johnson disagrees with you.

This is as ridiculous as your Ichiro thing earlier.

Randy Johnson is a hall of famer, in no small part because he, unlike MOST pitchers, got better as he got older.

ANYWAY I wasn't even saying that Garland's numbers were going down because he got older. Ugh.

jabrch
07-26-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm really struggling to see how anyone can think Garland for Cabrera is a failure. If anything, it's a draw.

If we didn't do that deal, Uribe would still be in the lineup every day.

Daver
07-26-2008, 10:08 PM
This is as ridiculous as your Ichiro thing earlier.

Randy Johnson is a hall of famer, in no small part because he, unlike MOST pitchers, got better as he got older.

ANYWAY I wasn't even saying that Garland's numbers were going down because he got older. Ugh.

Greg Maddux disagrees with you too, as does Jamie Moyer.

kitekrazy
07-26-2008, 10:33 PM
Is this evidence that the "Paul Konerko, what do you think?" thread has lost it's attention and now we are talking about what a bad idea it was to trade Garland?
Outside if back to back 18 wins, show me his greatness? There's something wrong when Javi is mediocre and Garland is great. Do you think Reinsdorf was going to give him "ace" money? That's why they traded him.

Tragg
07-26-2008, 10:38 PM
If we didn't do that deal, Uribe would still be in the lineup every day.
Maybe, maybe not. Ramirez may be at SS and Richar/Getz and 2b. And Uribe was in the lineup anyway for the first 6 weeks. Peronslly, I never had a problem with Uribe at SS (although I've enjoyed the upgrade).
Until the injuries, it was okay. After the injuries, not so okay. But, we knew the pitching was razor think with no injuries. Without the draft choices, that trade never made any sense, so let's be sure to get them.

And if we're going to sit Konerko, stop playing Wise....that's like trotting Bukvich out there.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 10:42 PM
Greg Maddux disagrees with you too, as does Jamie Moyer.

*** are you talking about? Both those ****ing pitchers saw their k numbers go down as they got older

Daver
07-26-2008, 10:43 PM
*** are you talking about? Both those ****ing pitchers saw their k numbers go down as they got older

But they were better pitchers as they got older.

Strikeout numbers are meaningless.

soxinem1
07-27-2008, 12:39 AM
It seems to me the main purpose of the Garland trade was to

a.) Open up a spot for Floyd in the rotation

b.) Upgrade the draft pick when Cabrera and Garland both refuse arbitration

Which of those hasn't worked out?

And don't forget: remove a large contract, esp. since they received $$$$ with Cabrera.

Noneck
07-27-2008, 12:46 AM
And don't forget: remove a large contract, esp. since they received $$$$ with Cabrera.
And didn't want to go through the public outcry to sign him as they did last year with Burls.

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2008, 08:02 AM
And didn't want to go through the public outcry to sign him as they did last year with Burls.

It's pretty lame if this was one of the reasons for trading away Garland.

My whole point was this: Which is easier to replace:

1. A ground-ball inducing starting pitcher; or

2. A power-hitting first baseman?

I think it's easier to find #2 than #1. That's why if I had to choose, I'd invest my resources in retaining #1 over #2.

fquaye149
07-27-2008, 08:19 AM
But they were better pitchers as they got older.

Strikeout numbers are meaningless.


Greg Maddux was not a better pitcher as he got older. He was "almost as good a pitcher as he got older"

Anyway, why the fudge are we talking about this? Garland is twenty ****ing eight.

I was just suggesting a reason why his strikeout numbers and walk numbers are both preponderately worse than last year.

fquaye149
07-27-2008, 08:20 AM
And didn't want to go through the public outcry to sign him as they did last year with Burls.


Especially since, unlike Burly, he's not worth resigning at the high price he'd likely command

Tekijawa
07-27-2008, 10:40 AM
I say play him, play him until he bats into the 90's. The guy is great, he is the team leader! He's the heart and soul of Chicago! He's a great guy and I'm sure he even smells great if you stand next to him! I LOVE PAUL KONERKO!!!! I WILL FIGHT UNTIL THE DEATH TO KEEP HIM IN THE Line UP!!!! I got your back Paulie... you are just sooooooooooooooooooooo great!

slavko
07-27-2008, 10:47 AM
Deaux?

TornLabrum
07-27-2008, 10:50 AM
Deaux?

A deer, a female deer?

Noneck
07-27-2008, 11:29 AM
A deer, a female deer?

A drop of golden sun you are.

champagne030
07-27-2008, 02:18 PM
And don't forget: remove a large contract, esp. since they received $$$$ with Cabrera.

They saved $3.5M this year with the trade.....they took on a pretty heavy contract too. Javy and Jose are both stealing more money than they're saving with Cabrera.

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2008, 02:19 PM
I say play him, play him until he bats into the 90's. The guy is great, he is the team leader! He's the heart and soul of Chicago! He's a great guy and I'm sure he even smells great if you stand next to him! I LOVE PAUL KONERKO!!!! I WILL FIGHT UNTIL THE DEATH TO KEEP HIM IN THE Line UP!!!! I got your back Paulie... you are just sooooooooooooooooooooo great!

Sadly, many won't see the implied teal. :redneck

Crede24Thome25
07-27-2008, 03:42 PM
What the **** he has just done it again how many times can paulie come to the plate with men in scoring position and groundout,strikeout, or flyout every time we try to rally he screws it up. What are they waiting on to do something with him. I knew we should have gotten rid of him when the angels wanted him.:angry:

russ99
07-27-2008, 04:30 PM
What the **** he has just done it again how many times can paulie come to the plate with men in scoring position and groundout,strikeout, or flyout every time we try to rally he screws it up. What are they waiting on to do something with him. I knew we should have gotten rid of him when the angels wanted him.:angry:

Yeah, I hear ya, but Swisher's not doing that great either. If we acquire an extra hitter at the deadline, I'm really not sure how a Konerko/Swisher platoon would really help things... other than to have one dead weight in the lineup instead of two.

TornLabrum
07-27-2008, 04:35 PM
Okay, let's go through this one more time. Use the language filter. Type the swear words like ****, ****, *******, etc., and let the filter do the editing.

And if you see something that isn't completely asterisked (like with the first and last letter and two asterisks in between, then for crying out loud don't ****ing quote the post.

palehozenychicty
07-28-2008, 10:19 AM
What it boils down to is, in terms of any measure of pitching, Garland is at best a slight upgrade over Contreras or Vazquez. SLIGHT.

And Vazquez has a heck of a lot more room to improve than Garland, because, you know, Vazquez doesn't walk essentially the same number of people he strikes out, or give up ****loads of hits.

Vazquez is not improving any more, partner. He's a .500 pitcher, and that is what he is doing right now. Case closed

alohafri
07-28-2008, 10:40 AM
Vazquez is not improving any more, partner. He's a .500 pitcher, and that is what he is doing right now. Case closed

I was spoiled by his fast start this season. Things have a tendency to go back to their average. I am hoping Paul will do the same.

fquaye149
07-28-2008, 11:05 AM
Vazquez is not improving any more, partner. He's a .500 pitcher, and that is what he is doing right now. Case closed

:rolleyes:

Vazquez has had seasons that Garland could never sniff.

He's also had seasons that are equal to the worst in Garland's career.

But then again, you just happen to KNOW what kind of pitcher he is, despite the fact that he's had great seasons and awful seasons.

congrats on that, champ. You should get into the stock market or something, since you're obviously not absolutely full of ****.

Adele_H
07-28-2008, 03:02 PM
My fear at the time is that the money spent on Paulie would keep the Sox from retaining the core of starting pitchers

I understand your fear, FP, but at that time for obvious reasons mentioned, Sox simply had no choice but to re-sign Kong as soon as he publicly expressed desire to accept a "hometown discount".

"Selling high" might be a neat concept in fantasy baseball, but it's not that simple in the real world of maor league franchises.

Hell, people still believe the reason 2006 team failed was because of departures of Rowand and Everett! :scratch: KW would not be able to live it down had Sox traded Konerko coming off 2005 and instead had gone with the cheap option Gload [presumably just so they could keep Shoulder-knot].

Unfortunately, the element of risk/unpredictability is present in all decisions on this level, even the fairly "safe" signing of Kong in his prime. When it doesn't quite work out, I know it's frustrating but fans have to be realistic.

It's Dankerific
07-28-2008, 03:14 PM
PK got a hit yesterday, so I'm sure you can put his benching off another week. He's heating up!!!

I had to take off halfway through yesterdays game, but it sounds like Swisher had another adventure in CF. But, you know, BA is only good for 10 plays a YEAR.

palehozenychicty
07-28-2008, 03:22 PM
:rolleyes:

Vazquez has had seasons that Garland could never sniff.

He's also had seasons that are equal to the worst in Garland's career.

But then again, you just happen to KNOW what kind of pitcher he is, despite the fact that he's had great seasons and awful seasons.

congrats on that, champ. You should get into the stock market or something, since you're obviously not absolutely full of ****.

They're both average, at times above-average pitchers. That was the crux of my statement. It's all good if you love Vazquez and drive him to the bakery after the game, but nobody here believes that Vazquez is a perennial pitching wizard.

JB98
07-28-2008, 04:52 PM
They're both average, at times above-average pitchers. That was the crux of my statement. It's all good if you love Vazquez and drive him to the bakery after the game, but nobody here believes that Vazquez is a perennial pitching wizard.

I agree with you. Vazquez is what he is. The notion that he has "room for improvement" is a bunch of bunk. Javy is 32 years old. He's a 10-year veteran. Love him or hate him, what you see is what you get at this point.

fquaye149
07-28-2008, 07:14 PM
They're both average, at times above-average pitchers. That was the crux of my statement. It's all good if you love Vazquez and drive him to the bakery after the game, but nobody here believes that Vazquez is a perennial pitching wizard.

No one said that.

I don't particularly like Vazquez. I wish he were more consistent.

But he's had flashes of greatness. Jon Garland is just consistently mediocre.

I don't know what's hard to understand about that. You can debate in your mind whether you'd rather have a guy like Garland who's consistently mediocre or a guy like Vazquez who is by turns, better than average and worse than average.

But what you can't debate is that Vazquez has had years and put numbers that would be completely unrealistic to expect out of Garland. Vazquez has had 2 years with more than 200 k's and a few more hovering right around there (170, 180, 190). Jon Garland's career high for K's is 115. Javy's had 2 years with an ERA under 3.50 and a handful more under 4.00. Jonny's season low for ERA is 3.50 and he's only been under 4.00 once more. It's not that difficult to understand: Javy has a better chance of putting up "better-than average" numbers than Garland. He may also have a chance to put up "worse-than-average" numbers--indeed he often does. But Jon Garland is a mediocre pitcher. Period. Javy is an inconsistent, if sporadically awful, sporadically great as well, pitcher.

And if recognizing that makes me "Javy's special bakery buddy" or whatever hilarious epithet you came up with, so be it.

Oh but I forgot: 2005!!!! :shrug:

Tekijawa
07-29-2008, 09:35 AM
I think it's time to sign Konerko to a 20 year 500 Million dollar extension... That guy is freakin' AWESOME! Did I mention He helped us win the World Series!!!! He has been nothing but a blessing to this team since 2005. Why haven't they put a statue for him out by the fan deck for him yet? Did you see "Paulie Hustle" bust it down to first after that check swing back to the pitcher last night? What a man! What a team player!! WHAT A CAPTAIN!!!

I love you more than life itself Paulie!!! Keep up the incredibly awesome work!

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 09:50 AM
That guy is freakin' AWESOME! Did I mention He helped us win the World Series!!!!


Wait---what year was that when we won the world series?

A.T. Money
07-29-2008, 09:51 AM
Time to cut your losses with Konerko, and designate him for assignment. This guy is just dead weight now, and not worth throwing our season away over.

Tekijawa
07-29-2008, 10:07 AM
Time to cut your losses with Konerko, and designate him for assignment. This guy is just dead weight now, and not worth throwing our season away over.
Tread lightly... there are Konerko lover's in high places here... I took a vacation a while back because I said something "Incredibly stupid"... They're watching... they know! You must spread Koneko love!!!

Love you Paul! I love your speed and the way you swing really hard at those bad pitches. I like the way that even though you can't hit a ball 2 inches off the plate you try to park that one 3 inches outside over the Left field wall!!! Keep swinging Paulie... You were and always will be GREAT!

A.T. Money
07-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Tread lightly... there are Konerko lover's in high places here... I took a vacation a while back because I said something "Incredibly stupid"... They're watching... they know! You must spread Koneko love!!!

Love you Paul! I love your speed and the way you swing really hard at those bad pitches. I like the way that even though you can't hit a ball 2 inches off the plate you try to park that one 3 inches outside over the Left field wall!!! Keep swinging Paulie... You were and always will be GREAT!

I don't care. I'm not taking anything from Paulie's past. He was great for us. But now, it's just painful to watch him. He's an automatic out EVERYTIME, and just finds ways now to hit into double plays. He's just terrible.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 10:09 AM
The MLB HOF should suspend their "five year rule" and induct him immediately. Heck, even if he couldn't hit, he should be inducted as a fielder. Have you seen him dig out those throws? And even if he couldn't field, his hitting alone has earned him immediate induction. And even if he couldn't do either, his leadership makes Lou Gehrig look like Manny Ramirez in comparison. In fact, if Paulie was Patton, the Germans would have surrendered sooner and the Soviets would have thrown him a ticker-tape parade in the Kremlin.

Adele_H
07-29-2008, 10:18 AM
I understand your fear, FP, but at that time for obvious reasons mentioned, Sox simply had no choice but to re-sign Kong as soon as he publicly expressed desire to accept a "hometown discount".

"Selling high" might be a neat concept in fantasy baseball, but it's not that simple in the real world of maor league franchises.

Hell, people still believe the reason 2006 team failed was because of departures of Rowand and Everett! :scratch: KW would not be able to live it down had Sox traded Konerko coming off 2005 and instead had gone with the cheap option Gload [presumably just so they could keep Shoulder-knot].

Unfortunately, the element of risk/unpredictability is present in all decisions on this level, even the fairly "safe" signing of Kong in his prime. When it doesn't quite work out, I know it's frustrating but fans have to be realistic.

I should say both 2006 and 2007 teams failure were blamed on getting away from Ozzieball/Grinder ball. :rolleyes:

Tekijawa
07-29-2008, 10:23 AM
The MLB HOF should suspend their "five year rule" and induct him immediately. Heck, even if he couldn't hit, he should be inducted as a fielder. Have you seen him dig out those throws? And even if he couldn't field, his hitting alone has earned him immediate induction. And even if he couldn't do either, his leadership makes Lou Gehrig look like Manny Ramirez in comparison. In fact, if Paulie was Patton, the Germans would have surrendered sooner and the Soviets would have thrown him a ticker-tape parade in the Kremlin.
Forget the statue on the fan deck, let's build him a monument in WASHINGTON! We can knock-down the White House and build it there. They can carve it out of marble and line it in gold! He can be joggin down to first with his head down with pride, slamming his bat down in complete dominance over the opposing team's pitcher... Jog Paulie Jog! We can rename October Paultober and take the month off for a national holiday.

Paul Konerko is my hero, I sacrifice small animals and make burnt offerings in the name of his glory. Amen!

Lillian
07-29-2008, 10:24 AM
Someone suggested that we move Konerko to DH next year.
Can you imagine him in the dugout with nothing to do the whole game but fret about his last at bat?
He'd wind op on the DL just from the beating he'd give himself!

SoxFan78
07-29-2008, 10:34 AM
Well its just announced by Nick Swisher on the Mully and Hanley show that he has a off day today. So that means Paulie at first once again.

comet2k
07-29-2008, 10:54 AM
In his last five games, Konerko is 3 for 20 (1 double) and scored three runs. No RBIs and no walks, and he's struck out five times. I've always liked Paulie, but those are batting numbers you expect from an NL pitcher. If this doesn't change fast, then the Sox have to bench him. He's become a liability.

After further review, this has been going on for 10 games: 6 hits (2 doubles) in 40 ABs, 2 runs, 2 RBIs 8 Ks, I BB.

spiffie
07-29-2008, 10:58 AM
Time to cut your losses with Konerko, and designate him for assignment. This guy is just dead weight now, and not worth throwing our season away over.
I'm pretty sure people made this same post about Jim Thome back in May.

Tekijawa
07-29-2008, 11:02 AM
I'm pretty sure people made this same post about Jim Thome back in May.

People also made this same post about Konerko in May, and April, and last September, and August...

Don't get me wrong... Konerko is the greatest player of our time, sorry Paulie...

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 11:07 AM
In his last five games, Konerko is 3 for 20 (1 double) and scored three runs. No RBIs and no walks, and he's struck out five times. I've always liked Paulie, but those are batting numbers you expect from an NL pitcher. If this doesn't change fast, then the Sox have to bench him. He's become a liability.

A quick glance of NL batting leaders with a minimum of 50 plate appearaces reveals the following starting pitchers are out-hitting Paulie (average and OPS):

Carlos Zambrano
Braden Looper
Micah Owings

Also, 175 NL players with a minimum of 50 plate appearances are out-OPS-ing Paulie. And 213 are hitting better than Paulie's .213 average. Included among these luminaries are backup catchers, utility infielders and career journeyman minor leaguers getting a cup of coffee with NL dregs.

spiffie
07-29-2008, 11:07 AM
People also made this same post about Konerko in May, and April, and last September, and August...

Don't get me wrong... Konerko is the greatest player of our time, sorry Paulie...
You have to pretty much toss out the first half. Konerko was obviously not healthy. Perhaps he shouldn't have had so much heart and tried to gut it out for the team, but he did. What's done is done. Going forward there is no reason to believe an all-star and a gamer like Paulie is not going to get his stroke back and return to the form we expect from him.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Konerko has three extras base hits total since the All Star Break.

Lip

dzipio
07-29-2008, 11:16 AM
I don't post much, but I feel compelled to address this oh-so-cute sarcasm. What does that prove? PK is having a godawful year, we all know it. Nobody with a brain is saying he was ever great, but he has had his moments. Or do you have another sarcastic dig at Konerko? Nobody with a brain is saying he was the greatest Sox of all time, but he did help us win the WS in 2005. So come right out and say what you think, do we forget all that and release a $12 million player? Much as I hate to say it, it is time to put Swisher at 1st and hope for the best. But riding Konerko like that is just wrong.

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 11:22 AM
I don't post much, but I feel compelled to address this oh-so-cute sarcasm. What does that prove? PK is having a godawful year, we all know it. Nobody with a brain is saying he was ever great, but he has had his moments. Or do you have another sarcastic dig at Konerko? Nobody with a brain is saying he was the greatest Sox of all time, but he did help us win the WS in 2005. So come right out and say what you think, do we forget all that and release a $12 million player? Much as I hate to say it, it is time to put Swisher at 1st and hope for the best. But riding Konerko like that is just wrong.

Why? He's the first to call out other players when he's playing well.

Konerko is a piece of ****.

Lillian
07-29-2008, 11:22 AM
What would it take to get him to do another rehab assignment at Charlotte?
Could he go there and get his stroke back? Does he have to be coming off of the DL again?
Can the Sox really afford to carry him, with his ineffectiveness, in the middle of a Pennant race?

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Paulie obviously cannot be traded without his permission. Some have speculated that he's approve a trade to Arizona or LA. What about San Francisco? If so, I'd trade him straight up for Randy Winn. I'm not sure the Giants would, though.

dzipio
07-29-2008, 11:30 AM
Why? He's the first to call out other players when he's playing well.

Konerko is a piece of ****.
:scratch:That's the first I heard of that. Where did you get that information? I've only heard that he is a stand up guy who is respected by his teammates. When did that change?

Tekijawa
07-29-2008, 11:30 AM
Paulie obviously cannot be traded without his permission. Some have speculated that he's approve a trade to Arizona or LA. What about San Francisco? If so, I'd trade him straight up for Randy Winn. I'm not sure the Giants would, though.
I'd Trade him for a Randy Winn Rookie card.

spiffie
07-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Konerko has three extras base hits total since the All Star Break.

Lip
Swisher has two extra base hits since the break. Should we bench him as well?

Pierzynski has two extra base hits since the break. Must be Toby Hall time.

Adele_H
07-29-2008, 11:33 AM
Konerko has three extras base hits total since the All Star Break.

Lip


I don't care; for me at this point any time Kong even reaches base is cause for celebration.

There are other ways to score runs that don't involve HR or even XBH. Especially with RO, RISP. I wish Sox hitters would realize that when they play on the road, especially.

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 11:38 AM
:scratch:That's the first I heard of that. Where did you get that information? I've only heard that he is a stand up guy who is respected by his teammates. When did that change?

It's not a matter of it changing. He's called out teammates in the media on a number of occasions.

Frank Thomas
Juan Uribe
Jose Contreras

Perhaps he's a great dugout guy. I'll buy that. But what's clear is that he's a piece of ****.

When Paulie's playing well, Paulie's mouth starts flapping because Paulie gets real excited about Paulie. Then he says stupid **** about Frank not playing through injuries, or Uribe being bush league for helping the White Sox beat the Cubs, or Royce Clayton being his favorite shortstop (like anyone cares) or telling a 1B coach to "Watch as Contreras ****s this up".

Paulie sucks. Now he's hitting bad in addition to being a living piece of garbage.

UofCSoxFan
07-29-2008, 11:40 AM
Just heard on the score that Ozzie is benching Swisher the next couple of days for Brian Anderson. I think I rather have PK sit, but I really can't argue with this as bad as Swisher has been.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Just heard on the score that Ozzie is benching Swisher the next couple of days for Brian Anderson. I think I rather have PK sit, but I really can't argue with this as bad as Swisher has been.

I don't have a problem with benching Swisher based on his performance.

What I don't understand, though, is why Ozzie gives Paulie a free pass.

spiffie
07-29-2008, 11:50 AM
I don't have a problem with benching Swisher based on his performance.

What I don't understand, though, is why Ozzie gives Paulie a free pass.
If Ozzie decides Swisher needs a few days off, who the hell takes over for Konerko in this mythical scenario? Toby Hall? Jim Thome? Jermaine Dye? We have really only two 1B on the roster, and neither one is hitting well at the moment.

PatK
07-29-2008, 11:52 AM
Paulie is hurting the team more than helping at this point.

I'd rather see Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF.

Yeah I know Swish isn't doing so hot right now. But I've got more confidence of him coming out of his slump right now than Paulie. He's shown flashes of getting it back on track much more than Konerko has this season.

Paulie just looks like he's either lost or hurt.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 11:58 AM
If Ozzie decides Swisher needs a few days off, who the hell takes over for Konerko in this mythical scenario? Toby Hall? Jim Thome? Jermaine Dye? We have really only two 1B on the roster, and neither one is hitting well at the moment.

What's mythical about it is the idea that Ozzie actually would bench his captain.

Given who is on the roster right now, I'd rather have Paulie on the bench, Swisher at 1B and BA (or Wise) in CF.

Swisher may be sucking almost as bad as Paulie, but at least he has more speed, which allows him to take an extra base occasionally (you know, actually do something valuable after taking a walk).

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 12:01 PM
To me, Ozzie putting BA in center, especially in the dome is a very good idea. His greater speed will help defensively and is he hitting worse than Swisher of late? PK is a seperate issue.

Keep in mind, the Sox depend on TCQ, Dye, Thome and PK for XBH. If they don't deliver on that, it adversely affects their offense. If OC, AJ, Alexei, BA don't get XBH, but do OBP, then that should not be that bad.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 12:04 PM
To me, Ozzie putting BA in center, especially in the dome is a very good idea. His greater speed will help defensively and is he hitting worse than Swisher of late? PK is a seperate issue.

Keep in mind, the Sox depend on TCQ, Dye, Thome and PK for XBH. If they don't deliver on that, it adversely affects their offense. If OC, AJ, Alexei, BA don't get XBH, but do OBP, then that should not be that bad.

I don't think BA is going to give us much OBP, but I think he will give us lots of doubles. And I'm OK with that.

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 12:57 PM
To answer the title of this thread, what to do with PK, part deux.

Just shoot him, put him out of his misery.

Before you PM me about how insensitive I am, please read up on what teal means.

Thank you.

russ99
07-29-2008, 01:04 PM
C'mon guys, Ozzie publicly called out Konerko last night. You have to give him some rope to hang himself with.

Let's see how Paul does the next couple of days. If he busts out, Ozzie looks like a genius. If he does poorly, no one can say Ozzie didn't give him every chance.

Besides, playing CF in the Metrodome is tough, so also why not give Brian a shot and let Swisher get himself together mentally the next few days. Brian might get hot at the plate too, so as far as I can tell, it's a win-win move by Oz.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 01:25 PM
C'mon guys, Ozzie publicly called out Konerko last night.

What did he say?

dzipio
07-29-2008, 01:32 PM
It's not a matter of it changing. He's called out teammates in the media on a number of occasions.

Frank Thomas
Juan Uribe
Jose Contreras

Perhaps he's a great dugout guy. I'll buy that. But what's clear is that he's a piece of ****.

When Paulie's playing well, Paulie's mouth starts flapping because Paulie gets real excited about Paulie. Then he says stupid **** about Frank not playing through injuries, or Uribe being bush league for helping the White Sox beat the Cubs, or Royce Clayton being his favorite shortstop (like anyone cares) or telling a 1B coach to "Watch as Contreras ****s this up".

Paulie sucks. Now he's hitting bad in addition to being a living piece of garbage.

Wow! So the captain of the team can't say a bad word about Uribe and Contreras? I thought Frank was dogging it too. I was wrong and so was Konerko, but that does not make him a "living piece of garbage" for God's sake.

It's Dankerific
07-29-2008, 01:32 PM
Just heard on the score that Ozzie is benching Swisher the next couple of days for Brian Anderson. I think I rather have PK sit, but I really can't argue with this as bad as Swisher has been.

Of course, on the night of my weekly poker game. Ozzie must have either looked at the stats or one of my twenty emails this week, I think BA has an OPS of .750 at the metrodome this year....


(I know its only one game, its kinda a joke, don't be so serious!)

It's Dankerific
07-29-2008, 01:37 PM
sorry for the double post, database had an error while posting

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 01:53 PM
Wow! So the captain of the team can't say a bad word about Uribe and Contreras? I thought Frank was dogging it too. I was wrong and so was Konerko, but that does not make him a "living piece of garbage" for God's sake.

He can say whatever the **** he wants.

But if he calls out his teammates in the press like the ********er he is, then i will call him a ********er for it, and with good reason.

:rolleyes:

JB98
07-29-2008, 01:59 PM
It's not a matter of it changing. He's called out teammates in the media on a number of occasions.

Frank Thomas
Juan Uribe
Jose Contreras

Perhaps he's a great dugout guy. I'll buy that. But what's clear is that he's a piece of ****.

When Paulie's playing well, Paulie's mouth starts flapping because Paulie gets real excited about Paulie. Then he says stupid **** about Frank not playing through injuries, or Uribe being bush league for helping the White Sox beat the Cubs, or Royce Clayton being his favorite shortstop (like anyone cares) or telling a 1B coach to "Watch as Contreras ****s this up".

Paulie sucks. Now he's hitting bad in addition to being a living piece of garbage.

Get over yourself. Jesus.

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 02:00 PM
Get over yourself. Jesus.

Over myself? I'm talking about Konerko being a douchebag, not about how I feel about the matter.

No other player on the team has called out his teammates as frequently as Konerko does. And it's not constructive criticism. It's just absolute garbage.

The Immigrant
07-29-2008, 02:02 PM
Over myself? I'm talking about Konerko being a douchebag, not about how I feel about the matter.

Seriously, get over yourself.

FedEx227
07-29-2008, 02:08 PM
Over myself? I'm talking about Konerko being a douchebag, not about how I feel about the matter.

No other player on the team has called out his teammates as frequently as Konerko does. And it's not constructive criticism. It's just absolute garbage.

C'mon dude, remember 2005. Remember? 2005. World Series. 05. Champs. 05.

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 02:11 PM
PK was great in 05. Very important in the playoffs/ World Series.

Does that buy him lifetime indemnity? Not from me.

Does it get him some slack? Sure.

I think he needs more rest right now and to be spotted a little better.

BadBobbyJenks
07-29-2008, 02:17 PM
2005 OMG jokes are so funny.

JB98
07-29-2008, 02:21 PM
2005 OMG jokes are so funny.

Teal? A lot of people here are under the mistaken impression that I'm advocating giving Konerko a little more rope because of 2005. Actually, it has more to do with 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. All of which were seasons in which Paul Konerko was a productive hitter for the White Sox.

FedEx227
07-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Teal? A lot of people here are under the mistaken impression that I'm advocating giving Konerko a little more rope because of 2005. Actually, it has more to do with 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. All of which were seasons in which Paul Konerko was a productive hitter for the White Sox.

No doubt. But I've always advocated that you have to earn what you get for any year. Seattle literally cut all ties with Richie Sexson despite paying him quite a lot of money because he was horribly unproductive. I'm not even asking for the Sox to cut Konerko, that would be stupid, but doesn't there come a time when this loyalty gets a bit old and you have to sit a guy down when he's clearly hurting your team offensively.

It's Dankerific
07-29-2008, 02:59 PM
No doubt. But I've always advocated that you have to earn what you get for any year. Seattle literally cut all ties with Richie Sexson despite paying him quite a lot of money because he was horribly unproductive. I'm not even asking for the Sox to cut Konerko, that would be stupid, but doesn't there come a time when this loyalty gets a bit old and you have to sit a guy down when he's clearly hurting your team offensively.

Can someone find a player recently who played piss poor for 1.5 years, while playing regularly, and came back to play well without having an offseason to get his head straight?

I think PK is done for this year. I think its more reasonable to expect he could come back for 2009, even at his career averages.

A.T. Money
07-29-2008, 03:03 PM
sorry for the double post, database had an error while posting

Uh oh....

A.T. Money
07-29-2008, 03:05 PM
2005!!!!!!!!11!!!!1

JB98
07-29-2008, 03:59 PM
No doubt. But I've always advocated that you have to earn what you get for any year. Seattle literally cut all ties with Richie Sexson despite paying him quite a lot of money because he was horribly unproductive. I'm not even asking for the Sox to cut Konerko, that would be stupid, but doesn't there come a time when this loyalty gets a bit old and you have to sit a guy down when he's clearly hurting your team offensively.

And I don't disagree with that. The question is, when does that point come? Some people here feel that point has already arrived, and that's fine. I don't think that time has come just yet, but it will come shortly if things don't change. Sox management gets the deciding vote.

I have a big issue with a poster (not you) calling Paul Konerko a "living piece of garbage." Osama bin Laden is a living piece of garbage. Jeffrey Dahmer was a piece of garbage. That assclown who shot up Cole Hall in DeKalb was a piece of garbage.

It's just asinine to call Paul Konerko a "living piece of garbage" because he thinks Royce Clayton was a good shorstop or whatever. Let's cut the preaching and have a little perspective, for God's sake.

soxinem1
07-29-2008, 04:02 PM
I can understand the down attitude on PK, but is putting Swisher, who has had about four solid weeks since he's been here, for good in his place the right thing?

Paulie has been somewhat hot and cold since he's been here, but this is one of the few times he's actually been hurt. I would think resting or the DL for a bit might be a good thing, as it seemed we were at least better defensively with Swish at 1B and BA in CF.

A.T. Money
07-29-2008, 04:26 PM
I can understand the down attitude on PK, but is putting Swisher, who has had about four solid weeks since he's been here, for good in his place the right thing?

Paulie has been somewhat hot and cold since he's been here, but this is one of the few times he's actually been hurt. I would think resting or the DL for a bit might be a good thing, as it seemed we were at least better defensively with Swish at 1B and BA in CF.

Hurt Schmurt.

Konerko looks completely clueless at the plate. There is no injury there...it's just called "BAD".

russ99
07-29-2008, 04:27 PM
What did he say?

There's a quote in today's Sun Times game report about Ozzie saying that Paul needs to come through tonight or he'll sit.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 04:30 PM
There's a quote in today's Sun Times game report about Ozzie saying that Paul needs to come through tonight or he'll sit.

I hope Paulie does come through. Tonight and for the rest of the year.

But if not, I really don't believe Ozzie would bench him. I'll believe it when I see it.

It's Dankerific
07-29-2008, 04:39 PM
I hope Paulie does come through. Tonight and for the rest of the year.

But if not, I really don't believe Ozzie would bench him. I'll believe it when I see it.

I think its right up there with the Sox playing fundamentally sound baseball by bunting, sacrificing, hitting to the opposite field and good defense at all positions.

When you see this team in first place as it is, you have to wonder just how good they COULD be. I mean, best record in the AL would be possible.

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 04:40 PM
2005 OMG jokes are so funny.

They wouldn't be so ****ing funny if people didn't actually have that point of view :rolleyes:


"How dare you castigate Konerko for being an ******* and a lousy hitter...maybe you've forgotten a certain grand slam!"

fquaye149
07-29-2008, 04:42 PM
And I don't disagree with that. The question is, when does that point come? Some people here feel that point has already arrived, and that's fine. I don't think that time has come just yet, but it will come shortly if things don't change. Sox management gets the deciding vote.

I have a big issue with a poster (not you) calling Paul Konerko a "living piece of garbage." Osama bin Laden is a living piece of garbage. Jeffrey Dahmer was a piece of garbage. That assclown who shot up Cole Hall in DeKalb was a piece of garbage.

It's just asinine to call Paul Konerko a "living piece of garbage" because he thinks Royce Clayton was a good shorstop or whatever. Let's cut the preaching and have a little perspective, for God's sake.

If it were just that one incident AND if fans didn't have his back for being a "good teammate" it wouldn't bear mentioning.

But the bottom line is Konerko's always been willing to call out his teammates when things are going good for him. Now he sucks with the stick AND is a living piece of garbage.

It's not as much moralizing as it is anticipatory of all the Konerko fans who think he's worthwhile because "he's a great dugout guy".

It's Dankerific
07-29-2008, 04:42 PM
They wouldn't be so ****ing funny if people didn't actually have that point of view :rolleyes:


"How dare you castigate Konerko for being an ******* and a lousy hitter...maybe you've forgotten a certain grand slam!"

A certain grandslam, in a certain stadium, during a certain world series, in a certain city with a certain football team known as, DA BEARS.

kitekrazy
07-29-2008, 04:46 PM
Great quote from the Rosenblog:

There are times when I think that the only way Ozzie Guillen won't play Paul Konerko is if Kenny Williams trades him. I know that Guillen is trying to be loyal, but is he managing the Chicago Konerkos or the Chicago White Sox?

At some point you have to stop treating professional athletes like little leaguers belonging to soccer moms.

kitekrazy
07-29-2008, 04:47 PM
But the bottom line is Konerko's always been willing to call out his teammates when things are going good for him. Now he sucks with the stick AND is a living piece of garbage.



Hopefully he learned his lesson this time.

2005
07-29-2008, 09:22 PM
Kenny needs to grow a pair and get rid of Konerko along with some prospects or picks to bulk up our bullpen. We don't need to fool ourselves by thinking he will come around because right now he is absolute garbage not only offensively but defensively as well.

2005
07-29-2008, 09:27 PM
I just don't see the value in having Paul Konerko on the White Sox anymore. Not only is his offense pathetic but his defense is nowhere near that of swisher. To be honest with you it doesn't even look like he's frustrated it just looks like he doesn't care. We need Brian in center and swish at 1st. Get rid of Konerko and maybe some prospects/picks to bulk up our bullpen for our world series run. Because believe me we are not a world series team with Konerko in the lineup the way he is playing right now.

Rocky Soprano
07-29-2008, 09:28 PM
The other thread, which you posted in, not enough for you?

2005
07-29-2008, 09:30 PM
No I'm furious

rocky biddle
07-29-2008, 09:31 PM
You should call Chris Rongey and let him in on your novel ideas.

2005
07-29-2008, 09:34 PM
I'm sure he would call me an idiot....but I just can't take it anymore. We are in a heated playoff race and we aren't going to do anything before the trade deadline when we have a few holes in our team (Konerko cough cough)

eastchicagosoxfan
07-29-2008, 09:45 PM
No I'm furious
Are you one of the drunks that calls into the Score and MVP after Bears games?

Lukin13
07-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Paulie Suckin'.

Time for another 15 days off with a tummy ache.

2005
07-29-2008, 09:48 PM
Thaaat Big Broowwwwn......no I'm not a drunk I'm a concerned fan. Why jump to harsh conclusions?

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2008, 09:48 PM
Blame it on salmonella.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2008, 11:42 PM
Tribune story says Ozzie is upset at Sox fans for ripping him and Kenny. Says he's sticking with his players including Konerko.

He seems to have done a 180 from last night when he said Swisher was getting Tuesday off and Paulie maybe Wednesday.

Lip

Martinigirl
07-29-2008, 11:54 PM
Tribune story says Ozzie is upset at Sox fans for ripping him and Kenny. Says he's sticking with his players including Konerko.

He seems to have done a 180 from last night when he said Swisher was getting Tuesday off and Paulie maybe Wednesday.

Lip

I love Paulie but it is hard to watch him right now. You know no one wants to get a hit more than he does and it just isn't happening. And you can see how frustrated he is with himself. It is just sad.

Domeshot17
07-30-2008, 12:02 AM
He looked good those last 2 at bats, a hard out and a solid Single. Its just one game, but if you broke down his swings, he is starting to look more solid, I think he is getting close. If he can get the swing down, the throws are going to fall in line because the pressing will stop.

voodoochile
07-30-2008, 12:10 AM
Tribune story says Ozzie is upset at Sox fans for ripping him and Kenny. Says he's sticking with his players including Konerko.

He seems to have done a 180 from last night when he said Swisher was getting Tuesday off and Paulie maybe Wednesday.

Lip

Go Ozzie...

Lip Man 1
07-30-2008, 12:19 AM
More from White Sox.com:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080729&content_id=3219938&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

Craig Grebeck
07-30-2008, 12:24 AM
The thing is, we really can't get rid of Konerko. We can't DFA him or release him outright and eat the money, we can't trade him, we might as well see if he can snap out of it.

Nellie_Fox
07-30-2008, 01:48 AM
What would it take to get him to do another rehab assignment at Charlotte?
Could he go there and get his stroke back? Does he have to be coming off of the DL again?Yes, he has to be coming off the DL again, plus he has to accept the rehab assignment (because of his MLB service time.)

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 08:45 AM
If Ozzie is making moves just to spite angry fans, he's a ****ing idiot.

ndgt10
07-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Konerko had a couple great at-bats last night. Hopefully he gets hot and leads the Sox to the division title.

dzipio
07-30-2008, 10:06 AM
If it were just that one incident AND if fans didn't have his back for being a "good teammate" it wouldn't bear mentioning.

But the bottom line is Konerko's always been willing to call out his teammates when things are going good for him. Now he sucks with the stick AND is a living piece of garbage.

It's not as much moralizing as it is anticipatory of all the Konerko fans who think he's worthwhile because "he's a great dugout guy".

This is getting hilarious. Did Paulie knock you off your tricycle when you were a kid, or what? He's having a **** year, he's not Hitler, for God's sake.

And for those who want to trade him at the bottom of his value, what exactly, did you think we'd get for him? And who would trade for a guy hitting .215 with 8 homers? Back to earth here. Sit him for a week, put Swisher at first (where he started hitting in June) and see what happens.

oeo
07-30-2008, 10:30 AM
He looked good those last 2 at bats, a hard out and a solid Single. Its just one game, but if you broke down his swings, he is starting to look more solid, I think he is getting close. If he can get the swing down, the throws are going to fall in line because the pressing will stop.

With the bases empty, Konerko has looked good at the plate.

Put someone on, and there's trouble. All in his head.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 10:33 AM
This is getting hilarious. Did Paulie knock you off your tricycle when you were a kid, or what? He's having a **** year, he's not Hitler, for God's sake.

And for those who want to trade him at the bottom of his value, what exactly, did you think we'd get for him? And who would trade for a guy hitting .215 with 8 homers? Back to earth here. Sit him for a week, put Swisher at first (where he started hitting in June) and see what happens.

What's more hilarious are the FOGIDPKs and aPaulogists who attack those who point out Paulie's sucking. They usually raise "killed your puppy" or "knock you off your tricycle" questions to dismiss the critics. I've had literally dozens of posters do this to me.

Don't blame me, I'm not the one who keeps sucking with runners on base. I'm not the one hitting .213 and getting paid $12 million for it.

voodoochile
07-30-2008, 10:49 AM
If Ozzie is making moves just to spite angry fans, he's a ****ing idiot.

Go Ozzie! Go Ozzie! Go Ozzie!

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 10:51 AM
Go Ozzie! Go Ozzie! Go Ozzie!

If he's managing with the fans in mind, he's an idiot.

He should be managing to win. To hell with what we have to say.

voodoochile
07-30-2008, 10:54 AM
If he's managing with the fans in mind, he's an idiot.

He should be managing to win. To hell with what we have to say.

No, Frater, I'm sure he's losing to spite people like you...:rolleyes:

Edit: Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? I mean it's so far past ridiculous that it's off the freaking meter...

spiffie
07-30-2008, 11:05 AM
If he's managing with the fans in mind, he's an idiot.

He should be managing to win. To hell with what we have to say.
If he's doing the opposite of what most fans want, he's likely on the right track.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 11:08 AM
No, Frater, I'm sure he's losing to spite people like you...:rolleyes:

Edit: Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? I mean it's so far past ridiculous that it's off the freaking meter...

Straw man. I never said he was losing to spite me or anyone else. He's the one who said something stupid in the media. He doesn't know when to shut up.

If it bothers him to have to read e-mail from angry fans, he shouldn't read his e-mail! If he doesn't like to read criticism in the paper, don't read the sports section. Don't watch TV sports and don't listen to sports talk radio!

Instead of doing these things (how else would he know that fans are unhappy?), how about asking Harold Baines to teach him more about outfield defense? How about making the youngsters come in early every day to work with him on bunting (he was a good bunter as a player)? How about telling everyone to come in every day to work on situational hitting? How about working with Greg Walker to devoting time during batting practice to hitting the other way (Rudy Jaramillo does this.)

He's a good motivator and clubhouse leader. He's also good at keeping negative attention off the players and focused on him. At the same time, he's a terrible bullpen manager and he's too loyal to sucking veterans and guys with whom he played (Cora, Walker, etc.) and too impatient with developing youngsters.

The very best in any profession are those who consistently are trying to learn new things and develop new skills. Like most people, Ozzie seems content to just do the same thing over and over again, since he won a World Series. Many fans seem to be content to let him do this too, since, after all, he won a World Series for us for the first time in 88 years.

Sorry, but I demand constant improvement. Resting on laurels and lashing out at the critics is not a method of self-improvement. I expect him to improve the parts of his managerial skill set that are weak, and I expect him to try to work with his team to improve all of their skills.

Adele_H
07-30-2008, 04:50 PM
Straw man. I never said he was losing to spite me or anyone else. He's the one who said something stupid in the media. He doesn't know when to shut up.

If it bothers him to have to read e-mail from angry fans, he shouldn't read his e-mail! If he doesn't like to read criticism in the paper, don't read the sports section. Don't watch TV sports and don't listen to sports talk radio!

Instead of doing these things (how else would he know that fans are unhappy?), how about asking Harold Baines to teach him more about outfield defense? How about making the youngsters come in early every day to work with him on bunting (he was a good bunter as a player)? How about telling everyone to come in every day to work on situational hitting? How about working with Greg Walker to devoting time during batting practice to hitting the other way (Rudy Jaramillo does this.)

He's a good motivator and clubhouse leader. He's also good at keeping negative attention off the players and focused on him. At the same time, he's a terrible bullpen manager and he's too loyal to sucking veterans and guys with whom he played (Cora, Walker, etc.) and too impatient with developing youngsters.

The very best in any profession are those who consistently are trying to learn new things and develop new skills. Like most people, Ozzie seems content to just do the same thing over and over again, since he won a World Series. Many fans seem to be content to let him do this too, since, after all, he won a World Series for us for the first time in 88 years.

Sorry, but I demand constant improvement. Resting on laurels and lashing out at the critics is not a method of self-improvement. I expect him to improve the parts of his managerial skill set that are weak, and I expect him to try to work with his team to improve all of their skills.

Ozzie is a self-centered loumouth hypocrite who isn't that good at on-field managing, and gets way too much credit (and, to be fair, blame when team the struggles) for the Utter Magic that was 2005.

To me, Ozzie is a dugout mascot, nothing more. An entertaining one, admittedly.

PatK
07-30-2008, 05:05 PM
Ozzie is a self-centered loumouth hypocrite who isn't that good at on-field managing, and gets way too much credit (and, to be fair, blame when team the struggles) for the Utter Magic that was 2005.

To me, Ozzie is a dugout mascot, nothing more. An entertaining one, admittedly.

I bet if he didn't shave for a month he'd be fuzzier than Southpaw.

soxfandy
07-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Konerko Update.....

0-2 with two weak groundouts. He has left 4 guys on base in three innings. Poor Jim is no longer seeing anything to hit. We are winning 2-0, but it could easily be about 5-0. We can't let the Twins stay in games or what happened to us will happen again. Konerko must bat 9th or be placed on the bench. Please!!!

itsnotrequired
07-30-2008, 09:21 PM
Konerko Update.....

0-2 with two weak groundouts. He has left 4 guys on base in three innings. Poor Jim is no longer seeing anything to hit. We are winning 2-0, but it could easily be about 5-0. We can't let the Twins stay in games or what happened to us will happen again. Konerko must bat 9th or be placed on the bench. Please!!!

It is 5-0.

:shrug:

soxfandy
07-30-2008, 09:33 PM
It is 5-0.

:shrug:


Made that post when it was 2-0. Thank god for TCQ.

ViPeRx007
07-30-2008, 09:38 PM
It's sad when I see Paulie come up and start thinking "automatic out".

:(:

A. Cavatica
07-30-2008, 10:05 PM
PK needs to be benched for a month.

2005
07-30-2008, 10:31 PM
PK needs to take his vitamins

2005
07-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Paulie just got a hit!! WOOOOOOOOOO :o:

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 10:57 PM
I hope he can use tonight's game as a springboard into August, September and October.

It would be so huge if the Sox could effectively "add a bat" just by getting Paulie to hit like he has in the past.

Give me an .850 OPS for August, September and October, and I'll be satisfied.

Frankfan4life
07-30-2008, 11:15 PM
I still have faith that Paulie will come around. I believe his problems are more mental than physical. I'm going to continue to pull for him and hope that he has a monster game tomorrow or whenever he plays next.

Gavin
07-31-2008, 01:27 AM
2008 Paul Konerko Standard of Approval: "Well, he didn't suck."

hawkjt
07-31-2008, 01:51 AM
I will take a hit and a walk everyday from PK til he goes back to normal.

Save McCuddy's
07-31-2008, 11:45 AM
I will take a hit and a walk everyday from PK til he goes back to normal.

I think "everyday" is no longer an option for Paulie.

soxrme
07-31-2008, 12:43 PM
I believe he will be put on the DL. I think his hand hasn't ever healed properly. He is having so much troulbe throwing that it can't be right. Paulie has always been a hitter. Maybe some of that HGH might help.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2008, 01:40 PM
According to the Sun-Times the acquisition of Griffey moves Konerko to the bench. Kid is going to center, Swisher to first.

Lip

It's Dankerific
07-31-2008, 01:42 PM
According to the Sun-Times the acquisition of Griffey moves Konerko to the bench. Kid is going to center, Swisher to first.

Lip

But Paulie was THIS close to coming around. Way to ruin his confidence management!!!

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 01:56 PM
According to the Sun-Times the acquisition of Griffey moves Konerko to the bench. Kid is going to center, Swisher to first.

Lip

Wow the Sun Times is managing the Sox.

HITMEN OF 77
07-31-2008, 02:01 PM
I still have faith that Paulie will come around. I believe his problems are more mental than physical. I'm going to continue to pull for him and hope that he has a monster game tomorrow or whenever he plays next.

Agreed! He's been bothered by injuries, I think we get him healthy he'll be back to normal.

ajismyhero
07-31-2008, 02:04 PM
According to the Sun-Times the acquisition of Griffey moves Konerko to the bench. Kid is going to center, Swisher to first.

Lip

Griffey hasn't played everyday CF for several years - i'm not confident his range is good enough for it...

Lip Man 1
07-31-2008, 02:17 PM
Kite:

I'm just passing along what their story says. You can do with it as you please.

Lip

PennStater98r
07-31-2008, 02:37 PM
Kite:

I'm just passing along what their story says. You can do with it as you please.

Lip

Dontcha just love getting smart-assed responses when trying to pass information along?

IronFisk
07-31-2008, 02:45 PM
Griffey hasn't played everyday CF for several years - i'm not confident his range is good enough for it...

I'll take his lack of range over Paulie's lack of batting average ANY day.

Paulie's hand simply hasn't healed right. I had a similar injury and couldn't shake it for months - and I wasn't playing professional baseball either. He probably thinks he can play through it, but reality is biting hard. Give him some rest - he'll be fine.

tstrike2000
07-31-2008, 03:38 PM
Well, if he needs rest or whatever for any type of lingering injury, I wish they'd do it.

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 05:02 PM
Dontcha just love getting smart-assed responses when trying to pass information along?

That wasn't my intent. I was replying about sports media is good at jumping to conclusions.

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 05:03 PM
Paulie's hand simply hasn't healed right. I had a similar injury and couldn't shake it for months - and I wasn't playing professional baseball either. He probably thinks he can play through it, but reality is biting hard. Give him some rest - he'll be fine.

I think it's time to stop blaming it on injuries.

Jurr
07-31-2008, 05:10 PM
I think it's time to stop blaming it on injuries.
Noted, but I'd like to see you fight off an inside fastball with a bum hand. Professional or not, that sucks.

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 05:14 PM
Noted, but I'd like to see you fight off an inside fastball with a bum hand. Professional or not, that sucks.

I'd like you to be the team trainer before making any assumptions on his health.

I don't see how your statement relates to this discussion.

SoxGirl4Life
07-31-2008, 05:34 PM
Konerko's out of the lineup tonight. Swish at first, Wise in center

Jurr
07-31-2008, 05:53 PM
I'd like you to be the team trainer before making any assumptions on his health.

I don't see how your statement relates to this discussion.
You said health is a tired excuse. Ball players tend to try to fight through injuries. Any hand or wrist injury is really going to mess with a player's swing. Period. Konerko needs some time to get everything back together, especially with the extreme attention he pays to swing mechanics (which has been reported tons of times).

You may be able to dismiss the injury excuse for performance, but it's a fact that he has been hurt and he is obviously showing ill effects as a result.

NoNeckEra
07-31-2008, 05:58 PM
Konerko's out of the lineup tonight. Swish at first, Wise in center
Since he's out of tonight's lineup even WITHOUT Griffey being with the club, that speaks volumes about his immediate future on the depth chart. If he sticks around for the remainder of the year (as opposed to being moved through a waiver deal) he relagated to facing lefties only at best.

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 06:45 PM
he is obviously showing ill effects as a result.

Maybe he's doing it out of disappointment of his performance. I haven't heard Ozzie come to his defense on being hurt.

kitekrazy
07-31-2008, 06:51 PM
Since he's out of tonight's lineup even WITHOUT Griffey being with the club, that speaks volumes about his immediate future on the depth chart. If he sticks around for the remainder of the year (as opposed to being moved through a waiver deal) he relagated to facing lefties only at best.

That's really jumping to conclusions. I guess they should have done this in 2003?

I'd take my chances on him producing next season. It's too soon to say he won't produce this season.

Adele_H
07-31-2008, 07:23 PM
Lord knows, I've tried to give Kong as much benefit of the doubt and goodwill as I could.

But he brought it (Griffey trade & possible benching) upon himself.

The problem wasn't that he wasn't producing short-term. It could happen to any body who goes through injuries.

The problem was that he wasn't making himself dangerous at the plate, to quote a much-misunderstood Hawkism. Mentally, he isn't giving himself a CHANCE right now. And on the big-league level, opposing pitchers/catchers/managers quickly sense that weakness and go for the kill every at-bat.

In short... Konerko is not seeing the ball, not timing it and not squaring it up even when he gets a cookie. So how the hell is he supposed to hit, let along hit with authority, let alone hit with authority against playoff-caliber pitching?!