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View Full Version : Time for Tweaking the Batting Order?


BUMMER
07-26-2008, 04:34 AM
IMO, the time is right for Ozzie to adjust the batting order. I'm looking at something like: 1) Alexi-2B 2) Cabrera - SS 3) TCQ - LF, 4) Dye - RF, 5) Thome -DH, 6) AJ - C, 7) Swish - CF, 8) Paulie - 1B, and 9) Fields / Uribe - 3B
(For those wishing to give PK a seat on the pines, Swish stays at 7, but at 1B and BA or Wise would bat 8 in CF).

I think the Sox should ride the hot bat and have Cuban Missile get one more AB per game, move AJ out of 2nd spot, and slide PK down (or out)..

Not a big move, just a little tweaking....anyone else?

TornLabrum
07-26-2008, 06:46 AM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

Shoeless
07-26-2008, 07:23 AM
As far as tweaking goes, a better player for the leadoff spot does not currently play for the White Sox.

BUMMER
07-26-2008, 07:28 AM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

Yes, but isn't his OBP been on the rise, especially the last month or so? My point is that he's been hot and AJ is not and maybe Oz would like to use that. With Alexi 9th & OC 1st, they essentially bat together anyway and seem to be in the middle of a lot of Sox rallies lately. Alexi has started more than a couple of rallies, often leading off a (late)inning. IMO, I just felt Alex could get one more AB early, a cool AJ could then move down into an RBI spot (PK's?). I'd like Alex's speed on base in this important road trip. To me, it doesn't make sense that PK, Swish, Uribe, often get al get more AB's than Alexi. No big deal. Oz could pull the line-up out of a hat as long as they get a "W".

hawkjt
07-26-2008, 08:15 AM
No way you put our three lefties all in a row.
I do not like messing with the order.
Maybe move PK down in the order but even that is no panacea. I would like to see what the bottom of the order with Fields out there can do.
I like having PK in 6th right now..our top 5 can make noise and then the bottom 3 also can make noise. Hide PK right where he is.

No change, in my opinion.

btrain929
07-26-2008, 08:16 AM
I don't think we'll see any lineup changes unless we go into a 3, 4, 5 game skid where we aren't scoring. If we keep winning/splitting series, he won't change it. Although I do like the suggestions you've made.

Edit: Hawk made a good point. 3 lefties in a row, with 4 righties before them would make it waaaaay to easy on opposing bullpens. We def need to keep them spread out.

Madvora
07-26-2008, 08:23 AM
I don't see any changes happening until the deadline is over. There might be some changes to the team because of it, which they will build the lineup around.

Lillian
07-26-2008, 08:36 AM
It makes no sense to have your highest average hitter batting 9th.
Alexei has not drawn walks, and may not see as many pitches as you'd like, but he has been getting on base via the hit. As some of you have pointed out, he is batting in front of O. C. anyway.
The only thing different about such a change is that he would get more at bats per game.
It's also conceivable that he would hit even better leading off, as he would likely see more strikes. That can't hurt an aggressive hitter like The Cuban Missile!!

btrain929
07-26-2008, 08:38 AM
It makes no sense to have your highest average hitter batting 9th.
Alexei has not drawn walks, and may not see as many pitches as you'd like, but he has been getting on base via the hit. As some of you have pointed out, he is batting in front of O. C. anyway.
The only thing different about such a change is that he would get more at bats per game.
It's also conceivable that he would hit even better leading off, as he would likely see more strikes. That can't hurt an aggressive hitter like The Cuban Missile!!

He would probably lead baseball in the category of HR's leading off a game on the very 1st pitch.

JB98
07-26-2008, 11:59 AM
Despite the struggles of Konerko, I think things are going pretty well offensively right now. Leave the lineup as it is.

oeo
07-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

And Cabrera is, at .328?

Frater Perdurabo
07-26-2008, 12:16 PM
Despite the struggles of Konerko, I think things are going pretty well offensively right now. Leave the lineup as it is.

Basically your argument is that the rest of the lineup is carrying Paulie. :tongue:

ChiSoxFan7
07-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Does everyone else realize what would happen if PK goes to the bench?

By saying that you most likely will see swisher at first...

and that means.....:o:FOBA are you listening....



BA in centerfield. and then we would just complain about how terrible he is. so i guess the question i ask to everyone who wants PK benched....are you ready for BA in CF?



Personally I don't think he is ready (even tho i am somewhat of a FOBA) and PK has shown many times that he is a capable defender and an above avg. hitter. Let it ride and maybe next year we can talk about BA in CF

hawkjt
07-26-2008, 12:29 PM
Just heard Mark Gonzales of the Trib talking on ESPN1000 and he mentioned PK's weight loss...seemed to imply that maybe PK is not healthy.

I really am a bit concerned about this...I like Pk..hope he is not sick or something. Probably just not eating well due to his struggles..he is so hard on himself.

sox1970
07-26-2008, 12:53 PM
Just heard Mark Gonzales of the Trib talking on ESPN1000 and he mentioned PK's weight loss...seemed to imply that maybe PK is not healthy.

I really am a bit concerned about this...I like Pk..hope he is not sick or something. Probably just not eating well due to his struggles..he is so hard on himself.

:rolleyes:

Give me a break.

Frater Perdurabo
07-26-2008, 12:58 PM
Just heard Mark Gonzales of the Trib talking on ESPN1000 and he mentioned PK's weight loss...seemed to imply that maybe PK is not healthy.

I really am a bit concerned about this...I like Pk..hope he is not sick or something. Probably just not eating well due to his struggles..he is so hard on himself.

I hope that Paulie is not sick. :o:

lukeman89
07-26-2008, 03:05 PM
id go
1) OC
2) AJ
3) TCQ
4) JD
5) Thome
6) Alexei
7) Fields
8) Konerko
9) Swish

alexei needs to move up, hes our best hitter with runners on (i think) so it only makes sense to put him behind guys like our 3-4-5 hitters who get on base more than anyone else. konerko sucks, i'd take him out of the order if i could and replace him with a BA/Wise (what happened to wise? when was the last time he played?)

whitesox901
07-26-2008, 03:08 PM
id go
1) OC
2) AJ
3) TCQ
4) JD
5) Thome
6) Alexei
7) Fields
8) Konerko
9) Swish


I Likes it

thomas35forever
07-26-2008, 03:31 PM
Does everyone else realize what would happen if PK goes to the bench?

By saying that you most likely will see swisher at first...

and that means.....:o:FOBA are you listening....



BA in centerfield. and then we would just complain about how terrible he is. so i guess the question i ask to everyone who wants PK benched....are you ready for BA in CF?



Personally I don't think he is ready (even tho i am somewhat of a FOBA) and PK has shown many times that he is a capable defender and an above avg. hitter. Let it ride and maybe next year we can talk about BA in CF
Good Lord, are you more concerned about the FOBAs or the well-being of our team? I'm not sure what people think is more important anymore.

TornLabrum
07-26-2008, 03:50 PM
And Cabrera is, at .328?

I never said Cabrera was a good lead off hitter. The .005 difference in OBP is maybe 2.5 or 2.6 times on base for the entire season, so neither is a really good option.

Adele_H
07-26-2008, 04:25 PM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

His OBP has been around .400 for over 2 months now.

And the hope is, obviously, that it accomplishes 2 things:

1) Alexei realizes the added responsibility of his new role and shortens/levels his swing a little more often
2) Cabrera slides to #2 spot where he could go back to his more familiar style of play


I understand that the move may not work. But to my way of thinking, you simply can't have your best or, at worst, your 3rd best hitter and your fastest runner, in the 9-hole.... sometimes not even coming to bat for the first time with 2 outs in the 3rd inning. Not if you're planning to build your future around him and you want him to learn the league & get comfortable as quickly as possible.

turners56
07-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

OC's OBP is actually worse.

Adele_H
07-28-2008, 02:08 PM
I never said Cabrera was a good lead off hitter. .

He's a #2.

And he's pissing me off lately with his half-assing on D. and WTP crap. :angry:

Eddo144
07-28-2008, 05:17 PM
His OBP has been around .400 for over 2 months now.

And the hope is, obviously, that it accomplishes 2 things:

1) Alexei realizes the added responsibility of his new role and shortens/levels his swing a little more often
2) Cabrera slides to #2 spot where he could go back to his more familiar style of play
OBP since May 27:
Alexei Ramirez: .367
Nick Swisher: .364

So really, not that much difference between Ramirez and Swisher.

Not saying Ramirez would be a bad leadoff hitter (hell, he's better than OC), but I would actually prefer Swisher leading off, with Ramirez batting 2nd and Cabrera 9th (or 8th when Uribe, Wise, or Anderson plays).

Swisher
Ramirez
Quentin
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Pierzynski
Crede/Fields/Uribe
Cabrera

TDog
07-28-2008, 05:30 PM
The offense isn't the problem. The batting order isn't the problem.

NoShoesJoe
07-28-2008, 05:33 PM
Pitching and defense starting to show some wear and tear...

Adele_H
07-29-2008, 09:30 AM
So really, not that much difference between Ramirez and Swisher.



Since mid-May, Alexei's OBP is in high .300s.

When he is on, because of his speed, he affects the game - defensive alignment, pitch selection, pitcher's confidence - differently than Swisher would.

Maybe, just maybe, he won't uppercut as much in the lead-off spot, which would be added benefit.

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 09:43 AM
Alexei really impresses me as to knowing what his role is and adjusting to it. When he needs to get a man over, he does it. When a sac fly is called for, he does it. When a bunt is called for, he does it. When he has no responsibility, he tends to cut loose a little bit too much for my taste, but I'll give him that. If I had to ask him to do lead-off or bat second, I think he would do a very adequate job.

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 09:44 AM
The offense isn't the problem. The batting order isn't the problem.

If you say that three times, it must be true.

KenBerryGrab
07-29-2008, 09:48 AM
Cabrera
Ramirez
TCQ
Dye
Thome
Swisher
AJ
Paulie
Fields

TDog
07-29-2008, 10:52 AM
If you say that three times, it must be true.

If you're watching, you would see that pitching is the problem. It was the problem in Detroit. It was the problem Monday night.

Switching around the batting order Monday wouldn't have made a difference on a night when the Sox didn't have more than one hit in an inning, when the Sox got their leadoff hitter on base most of the time and didn't get a hit with a runner on base.

Shoeless_Jim
07-29-2008, 12:44 PM
id go
1) OC
2) AJ
3) TCQ
4) JD
5) Thome
6) Alexei
7) Fields
8) Konerko
9) Swish

alexei needs to move up, hes our best hitter with runners on (i think) so it only makes sense to put him behind guys like our 3-4-5 hitters who get on base more than anyone else. konerko sucks, i'd take him out of the order if i could and replace him with a BA/Wise (what happened to wise? when was the last time he played?)

1) OC
2) AJ
3) TCQ
4) JD
5) Thome
6) Fields
7) Swish
8) Wise
9) Alexei

why not?
Alexei is good as second leadoff

Shoeless_Jim
07-29-2008, 12:45 PM
I hope that Paulie is not sick. :o:

yeah...but if he is it means he will get better:rolleyes:

PolishPower83
07-29-2008, 01:58 PM
If you're watching, you would see that pitching is the problem. It was the problem in Detroit. It was the problem Monday night.


The defense has been equally to blame. I'm not concerned about the offense, but pitching and D have got me a little worried.

TDog
07-29-2008, 02:29 PM
The defense has been equally to blame. I'm not concerned about the offense, but pitching and D have got me a little worried.

Originally, I typed defense into the message. I omitted it because with the exception of Fields and Swisher (and Quentin to a lesser extent) the defense has the ability to play superior baseball. It is different from pitching because lapses on defense by good defenders tends to be more transitory.

That is, a good pitcher going bad is going bad for reasons that should keep him going bad while a good defender who makes a couple of errors is more likely to make most of the plays that follow under normal circumstances.

It is puzzling that the Sox defense has been as poor as it is. Even I am surprised that Josh Fields is fielding below .900, and I don't think much of fileding percentages. I was more concerned with the balls he won't get to. But having good fielders who are fielding badly isn't as bad as having good pitchers who are pitching badly because the latter is more apt to be predictive of future play than the former.

KenBerryGrab
07-29-2008, 02:47 PM
Even I am surprised that Josh Fields is fielding below .900, and I don't think much of fileding percentages.

This is the least surprising thing about the club right now.

A statue has a better chance of getting a ball hit to his right.

ondafarm
07-29-2008, 02:55 PM
If you're watching, you would see that pitching is the problem. It was the problem in Detroit. It was the problem Monday night.
. . .


Are you even vaguely aware of how much difficulty with verb tense you are having?

kitekrazy
07-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Right now Alexei isn't a lead off hitter, not with a .333 OBP.

He likes to swing at the first pitch a lot. Not your typical leadoff hitter.

kitekrazy
07-29-2008, 03:27 PM
If you're watching, you would see that pitching is the problem. It was the problem in Detroit. It was the problem Monday night.


They haven't been stellar on defense either.

2005
07-29-2008, 08:58 PM
The batting order is the least of our problems. I am not saying we have too many problems considering we are currently leading our division, but i agree our defense is awful. Not much you can do about that though....

captainclutch24
07-30-2008, 01:12 AM
SS Cabrera
1B Swisher
LF TCQ
RF Dye
DH Thome
C AJ
3B Fields
2B Alexi
CF Anderson/Wise

Nellie_Fox
07-30-2008, 01:43 AM
2B Alexi*sigh* Alexei.

ndgt10
07-30-2008, 07:59 AM
OC
Ramirez
Quentin
Dye
AJ
Fields
Thome
Konerko
Swisher

gogosox16
07-30-2008, 08:49 AM
He likes to swing at the first pitch a lot. Not your typical leadoff hitter.
Cabrera swings quite often at the first pitch. So you got no argument here

JohnTucker0814
07-30-2008, 09:03 AM
I say we bring up Owens, put Konerko on the DL...

1. Owens CF
2. Cabrera SS
3. Quentin LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Ramirez 2B
7. Pierzynski C
8. Fields 3B
9. Swisher 1B

It looks like Owens has been hitting pretty well since his return from injury... let's see if he can bring a spark to the lead off spot...

And no I'm not a supporter of Owens... not a hater of BA... just want to see if this works, like when Ozzie moved Q to the 3 hole...

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-30-2008, 10:01 AM
why not have Swish leadoff? He's damn patient....

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2008, 10:21 AM
why not have Swish leadoff? He's damn patient....

This is what I want:

2B Ramirez (highest BA on the team)
1B Swisher (patience will lead to more SBs for Alexei)
RF Dye (higher BA than TCQ)
DH Thome (won't be walked with AL HR leader behind him)
LF Quentin (more RBI chances for AL HR leader)
C AJ
3B Crede (when he returns, Uribe/Fields in the interim)
CF DeJesus/Winn (from trade with KC or SF)
SS Cabrera (turns over the lineup)

Frankfan4life
07-30-2008, 10:53 AM
I hope that Paulie is not sick. :o:Yes he's sick!! It's been verified. He has a rare but treatable illness called Pauliepopupitis. The symptoms are two quick strikes followed by a pop-up or strike-out in a clutch situation resulting in uncontrollable bat slamming. A cure is quickly being sought by Doc Walk.

Seriously, I don't think the captain of the team is going to hurt the team by trying to play while sick.

JB98
07-30-2008, 01:19 PM
All this talk of tweaking the damn lineup. On this trip, we've yet to hold our opponent below five runs in any game. The PITCHING, not the offense, is the problem.

Our opponents have scored five or more runs in 15 OF THE LAST 17 GAMES. Thank goodness our offense has scored five or more in 11 of the last 17 games, preventing this stretch from being a total disaster.

Stop worrying about the offense and the lineup. It's the PITCHING that is failing us.

Look at the Sox scores since July 8:
at Kansas City
7/8: W 8-7
7/9: W 7-6
7/10: L 4-1
at Texas
7/11: L 7-2
7/12: W 9-7
7/13: L 12-11
vs. Kansas City
7/18: W 9-5
7/19: L 9-1
7/20: L 8-7
vs. Texas
7/21: L 6-1
7/22: W 10-2
7/23: W 10-8
at Detroit
7/25: W 6-5
7/26: W 7-6
7/27: L 6-4
at Minnesota
7/28: L 7-0
7/29: L 6-5

oeo
07-30-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes he's sick!! It's been verified. He has a rare but treatable illness called Pauliepopupitis. The symptoms are two quick strikes followed by a pop-up or strike-out in a clutch situation resulting in uncontrollable bat slamming. A cure is quickly being sought by Doc Walk.

That's got to be Credeitis.

Frankfan4life
07-30-2008, 02:07 PM
That's got to be Credeitis.The strain is known to mutate.

spiffie
07-30-2008, 02:13 PM
The only lineup tweak they need is for the players to be tighter on defense. There has been some sloppy play lately that needs to not happen. Otherwise they're scoring runs and keeping every game close with one or two exceptions. Sometimes you're going to win close ones, sometimes not.

Seriously though, people wanting to basically substitute Jerry Owens, who is not good at baseball, for Paul Freaking Konerko just amuse me.