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whitesox901
07-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Just got a text form White Sox Moble, Crede to DL, recalled 3B Josh Fields AAA Charlotte

Sockinchisox
07-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Score is saying Crede has been placed on the DL.

Jaffar
07-25-2008, 02:42 PM
There goes half of the trade rumor scenarios. Things just got interesting.

ChiSoxGirl
07-25-2008, 02:43 PM
Just got a text form White Sox Moble, Crede to DL, recalled 3B Josh Fields AAA Charlotte

Interesting. I thought maybe Ozzie would continue using Uribe at third and maybe go with another arm in the 'pen. Is Crede's placement on the DL retroactive to a few days ago when Ozzie held him out of the lineup?

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2008, 02:44 PM
And there goes Joe's big contract too.

It's Dankerific
07-25-2008, 02:46 PM
Say it aint so, Joe

MushMouth
07-25-2008, 02:46 PM
can anyone brief me on how Fields has played since returning from injury??

2906
07-25-2008, 02:46 PM
There goes half of the trade rumor scenarios. Things just got interesting.

Possibly but I wouldn't rule anything out. I'm just glad Fields is healthy enough to play. Good move putting Crede on the DL though ... this day to day stuff is nuts and it has to be frustrating for all concerned.

Rockabilly
07-25-2008, 02:46 PM
well looks like we wont be making any big deals now

russ99
07-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Interesting. I thought maybe Ozzie would continue using Uribe at third and maybe go with another arm in the 'pen. Is Crede's placement on the DL retroactive to a few days ago when Ozzie held him out of the lineup?

I'm sure the DL length would at least be 2 days retroactive, but my bigger concern is if Joe's going to be OK or a big question mark the rest of the way?

We all know that there's no guarantee that what sidelined him last year wouldn't come back.

Hopefully if Joe's OK, we can also use this time to showcase Fields for a deal. I hope he does well.

CHIsoxNation
07-25-2008, 02:48 PM
Damn.

Well, hopefully it's nothing incredibly serious and they want to rest him a bit before the last 2 months. Maybe they'll try to showcase Fields a bit before trading him and then let Uribe handle 3B until Joe gets back...doubt that though.

Still sucks.

Bucky F. Dent
07-25-2008, 02:48 PM
Well that stinks!

Nothing quite as uncertain as a wonky back.

That's a technical term, by the way.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 02:48 PM
Oh ****...this is bad...very bad. Well, I'm sure Boras is thrilled.

Rockabilly
07-25-2008, 02:49 PM
Get Well Joe

2906
07-25-2008, 02:51 PM
can anyone brief me on how Fields has played since returning from injury??

I can't speak for his defense but offensively, not that great to be frank.

His average has dipped a few points and he's been striking out even more. 77 strikeouts in 222 at bats with Charlotte, once every 2.9 at bats, ouch.

Hopefully he does well filling in or until they decide how they're going to handle this trade deadline.

oeo
07-25-2008, 02:51 PM
Oh ****...this is bad...very bad. Well, I'm sure Boras is thrilled.

We've been playing with a crappy Crede for over a month now. It can't be that bad with him out of the lineup.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2008, 02:51 PM
I hope he can get well, as his performance has slowed big time these last 6-7 weeks. As for Fields, his time is now. He needs to step up.

aryzner
07-25-2008, 02:51 PM
Wow, as one of the first posters said, things just got REAL interesting. I'm finding the trade deadline this year to be much more exciting than I usually do.

alohafri
07-25-2008, 02:52 PM
Oh ****...this is bad...very bad. Well, I'm sure Boras is thrilled.

Fixed it for you. There goes Crede's billion dollar contract.

Noneck
07-25-2008, 02:52 PM
Any details on the injury?

ChiSoxGirl
07-25-2008, 02:52 PM
I'm sure the DL length would at least be 2 days retroactive, but my bigger concern is if Joe's going to be OK or a big question mark the rest of the way?

We all know that there's no guarantee that what sidelined him last year wouldn't come back.

Hopefully if Joe's OK, we can also use this time to showcase Fields for a deal. I hope he does well.

I agree with this totally. With this being the biggest road trip of the season to date, I don't know that I want Fields at the hot corner. Uribe's glove is better, no?

CHIsoxNation
07-25-2008, 02:53 PM
Retroactive to July 22

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/

oeo
07-25-2008, 02:53 PM
I agree with this totally. With this being the biggest road trip of the season to date, I don't know that I want Fields at the hot corner. Uribe's glove is better, no?

Yeah, Crede has been incredible with the glove this year. Last time I checked, Uribe has 2 errors at 3B already, too.

Give Fields a break...he isn't that bad.

munchman33
07-25-2008, 02:54 PM
Well, it's not like Crede hasn't been subpar defensively this year, what with all the errors. And a poor batting average with some power is certainly something we know Josh can replicate. This isn't the end of the world.

nug0hs
07-25-2008, 02:54 PM
Also:
"The Sox also returned pitcher Esteban Loaiza from his rehabilitation assignment at Double-A Birmingham, activating him from the disabled list and requesting waivers for purposes of granting his unconditional release."


http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/

whitesox901
07-25-2008, 02:54 PM
Damn.

Well, hopefully it's nothing incredibly serious and they want to rest him a bit before the last 2 months. Maybe they'll try to showcase Fields a bit before trading him and then let Uribe handle 3B until Joe gets back...doubt that though.

They could, but Im thinking after Crede gets back and if he plays some good ball he'll be delt and then he have ourselves a Josh Fields thirdbasemen.

Also, IIRC, Didnt Fields hit and play real well agianst Detroit last year? So if its gonna happen, at least Fields is playing agianst someone where he draws blood best.

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2008, 02:56 PM
I hope its nothing serious too. For him personally.

Get well, Joe

ChiSoxGirl
07-25-2008, 02:56 PM
Yeah, Crede has been incredible with the glove this year. Last time I checked, Uribe has 2 errors at 3B already, too.

Give Fields a break...he isn't that bad.

I wasn't trying to hate on Fields at all; I'm not a hater and don't log into WSI to express my disgust with players. I'm just looking at the situation as I said earlier- it's our biggest road trip of the season and coming out of it with a winning record is all but imperative; and part of being able to win is having excellent defense.

CHIsoxNation
07-25-2008, 02:56 PM
Fields is already in the lineup tonight.

Lets see how Fields handles things now that he is in a pennant race. He didn't have much pressure on him last year, not that he has a ton now seeing as Crede wasn't playing that great, but the team is in a different situation now than they were a year ago.

SquirrelNutz
07-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Josh Fields YTD stats:

59 games
.248 BA
9 HR
77 SO
25 BB

... say a prayer for Crede to get well soon. :?:

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Well there it is.

It was due ot happen.


Injury bug is starting to scare me a bit.

oeo
07-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Josh Fields YTD stats:

59 games
.248 BA
9 HR
77 SO
25 BB

... say a prayer for Crede to get well soon. :?:

He's been playing hurt all year.

Geez, people, you all saw him play last year. He can hit in the big leagues. If he's healthy right now, he'll be fine.

ondafarm
07-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Get well soon Joe. We could use you.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Fields is already in the lineup tonight.

Lets see how Fields handles things now that he is in a pennant race. He didn't have much pressure on him last year, not that he has a ton now seeing as Crede wasn't playing that great, but the team is in a different situation now than they were a year ago.

I think he'll play fine, honestly. I just want to see improvement with the strike zone e.g. more contact. I think then people wouldn't be so nervous about him. I don't think that Walker is the best teacher of plate discipline though. We will see.

DeadMoney
07-25-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not sure what to think.

I think I'm sad, happy and enraged all at the same time.

:gulp:

Strap it down...

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Well, it's not like Crede hasn't been subpar defensively this year, what with all the errors. And a poor batting average with some power is certainly something we know Josh can replicate. This isn't the end of the world.

Here's Crede's line over the past 15 games: .189/.211/.340.

Either Uribe or Fields will be an improvement over him at the plate.

CHIsoxNation
07-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Cowley is pretty much counting out Fields being any part of a trade now.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
Here's Crede's line over the past 15 games: .189/.211/.340.

Either Uribe or Fields will be an improvement over him at the plate.

That's the thing. Crede has been invisible for awhile at the plate. Let's see if some rest helps him.

alohafri
07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
Give Fields a break...he isn't that bad.

Yeah, it's not like he is Paul Konerko! :redneck (waiting for the tomatoes!)

cheezheadsoxfan
07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
Hopefully this is just a fatigue thing and he need some rest. He's been saying it's not shooting pain like last year but just stiffness.

KnightSox
07-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Josh Fields YTD stats:

59 games
.248 BA
9 HR
77 SO
25 BB

... say a prayer for Crede to get well soon. :?:How many errors? right now, that is the key.

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2008, 03:03 PM
That's the thing. Crede has been invisible for awhile at the plate. Let's see if some rest helps him.


And his whole problem with lefties is bizarre.

I'm wondering if its his eyesight that has been causing the fielding errors and the poor at bats.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:03 PM
How many errors? right now, that is the key.

How many errors did Crede have? Yep, the most in the majors.

I could see people making a big deal out of this if Crede was having a superb defensive season...but he's not. He's having an awful one. We're not losing much, considering Crede hasn't shown much at the plate in over a month.

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Cowley is pretty much counting out Fields being any part of a trade now.

Well, despite what Cowley might have speculated recently, there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell the Sox would trade Fields without Crede signed to a long-term deal.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:05 PM
Also:
"The Sox also returned pitcher Esteban Loaiza from his rehabilitation assignment at Double-A Birmingham, activating him from the disabled list and requesting waivers for purposes of granting his unconditional release."


http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/

Anyone care to start a Loaiza appreciation thread? I'll start. Those 2 innings you pitched this year...thanks.

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2008, 03:05 PM
How many errors did Crede have? Yep, the most in the majors.

I could see people making a big deal out of this if Crede was having a superb defensive season...but he's not. He's having an awful one. We're not losing much, considering Crede hasn't shown much at the plate in over a month.


I think he meant errors for Josh. I'm curious about that too. It'd have to be adjusted for the number of games played to get a good idea, tho.

fugazis
07-25-2008, 03:06 PM
Josh Fields for Chone Figgins. Make the trade now.

ondafarm
07-25-2008, 03:06 PM
And his whole problem with lefties is bizarre.

I'm wondering if its his eyesight that has been causing the fielding errors and the poor at bats.

I'd call that very doubtful. I've seen guys play who suddenly developed eyesight issues. Crede doesn't play like they did. I'm suspecting his back has been a little stiffer and more painful than he's been discussing.

LITTLE NELL
07-25-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm not sure what to think.

I think sad, happy and enraged all at the same time.

:gulp:

Strap it down...
I feel the same way you do. I will always remember Crede for his heroics in 05 but he pissed me off by waiting to have surgery and his stupid agent wanting to wait till after this season to talk contract. Teams will not be lined up to sign Crede unless its a conditional deal like the one Mags got from Detroit.
The Josh Fields era begins tonight.

KnightSox
07-25-2008, 03:07 PM
How many errors did Crede have? Yep, the most in the majors.

I could see people making a big deal out of this if Crede was having a superb defensive season...but he's not. He's having an awful one. We're not losing much, considering Crede hasn't shown much at the plate in over a month.We just need Fields to play good defense, I'm not concerned about his bat, that will come around.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:07 PM
I think he meant errors for Josh. I'm curious about that too. It'd have to be adjusted for the number of games played to get a good idea, tho.

My point was, Crede was not playing good defense.

So for those that think we're losing so much defensively: you're wrong.

We just need Fields to play good defense, I'm not concerned about his bat, that will come around.

Insert Crede's name for Fields', and the sentence works just the same. Crede goes to the DL and just now people are concerned about defense at 3B? It's been terrible all year.

nug0hs
07-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Fields absolutely destroyed Detroit last season too, don't forget about that.....(timing of this transaction? :wink:)

cheezheadsoxfan
07-25-2008, 03:10 PM
My point was, Crede was not playing good defense.

So for those that think we're losing so much defensively: you're wrong.

He was still making diving, game saving plays. I doubt we'll see that from Fields. Doesn't have the instinct or the range.

KnightSox
07-25-2008, 03:10 PM
My point was, Crede was not playing good defense.

So for those that think we're losing so much defensively: you're wrong.Exactly, I am not concerned about Fields offensive stats at AAA, we just need an error less glove at third. And the way Joe had been playing, Josh is an upgrade.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:11 PM
He was still making diving, game saving plays. I doubt we'll see that from Fields. Doesn't have the instinct or the range.

Yeah, and at the same time, he was having inning-extending errors that were costing us runs, and in a few cases this year: entire games.

Crede's help on defense has been marginal, at best, to the success of this team. He's helped it on occasion, but he's also hurt it quite a bit, too. I'm reminded of that Toronto series in early May when Crede had errors in two straight games with two outs which ended up being the deciding runs.

white sox bill
07-25-2008, 03:17 PM
15 day retro from July 22, means Aug 6th return. Hope we are in first place then

A.T. Money
07-25-2008, 03:19 PM
Josh Fields for A-Rod. Straight up.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-25-2008, 03:19 PM
Yeah, and at the same time, he was having inning-extending errors that were costing us runs, and in a few cases this year: entire games.

Crede's help on defense has been marginal, at best, to the success of this team. He's helped it on occasion, but he's also hurt it quite a bit, too. I'm reminded of that Toronto series in early May when Crede had late inning errors in two straight games, with two outs, and the lead. We lost both of them, and ended up getting swept.

Crede has 19 errors is 90 games.

Fields has 9 in 59 games.

Taking into account the lesser range (and less chance for errors) I don't see it as a major upgrade.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Crede has 19 errors is 90 games.

Fields has 9 in 59 games.

Taking into account the lesser range (and less chance for errors) I don't see it as a major upgrade.

It's a push, or very close to it. I never said Fields was going to be an upgrade, I said we weren't going to miss much.

Crede hasn't shown exceptional range this year, anyway. He's been especially bad when going to his left.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Crede has 19 errors is 90 games.

Fields has 9 in 59 games.

Taking into account the lesser range (and less chance for errors) I don't see it as a major upgrade.

I don't know that anyone would argue it is an upgrade...it may just not be the catastrophic downgrade some people assume it will be.

MushMouth
07-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Fields is going deep tonight

CHIsoxNation
07-25-2008, 03:21 PM
The official release is saying that Crede is out with "back lumbar inflammation". Not sure exactly what that is or how serious.

IIRC, they initially said this back issue wasn't related to or in the same location as where he had the surgery.

mrwag
07-25-2008, 03:22 PM
Crede has 19 errors is 90 games.

Fields has 9 in 59 games.

Taking into account the lesser range (and less chance for errors) I don't see it as a major upgrade.


... or downgrade.

KnightSox
07-25-2008, 03:23 PM
Crede has 19 errors is 90 games.

Fields has 9 in 59 games.

Taking into account the lesser range (and less chance for errors) I don't see it as a major upgrade.It isn't a major upgrade, but considering Fields back is healthy, it's upgrade enough.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:25 PM
The official release is saying that Crede is out with "back lumbar inflammation". Not sure exactly what that is or how serious.

IIRC, they initially said this back issue wasn't related to or in the same location as where he had the surgery.

Does he have the back of a 80-year-old man?

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:26 PM
All the Fields trashing makes me sick.

Give the guy a break.

He has 3/4 of a major league season under his belt.

Be happy that we have a replacement/insurance for Crede of the caliber of Josh Fields rather than dealing with Ozuna / Uribe type of crap every day.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:27 PM
All the Fields trashing makes me sick.

Give the guy a break.

He has 3/4 of a major league season under his belt.

Be happy that we have a replacement/insurance for Crede of the caliber of Josh Fields rather than dealing with Ozuna / Uribe type of crap every day.

Thank you. It's hysterical that most people ignored the defensive problems at 3B until now. Did you not notice Crede booting balls, and throwing them into the stands?

Daver
07-25-2008, 03:28 PM
All the Fields trashing makes me sick.

Give the guy a break.

He has 3/4 of a major league season under his belt.

Be happy that we have a replacement/insurance for Crede of the caliber of Josh Fields rather than dealing with Ozuna / Uribe type of crap every day.

Uribe fields the ball a hell of a lot better than Fields does.

LITTLE NELL
07-25-2008, 03:28 PM
All the Fields trashing makes me sick.

Give the guy a break.

He has 3/4 of a major league season under his belt.

Be happy that we have a replacement/insurance for Crede of the caliber of Josh Fields rather than dealing with Ozuna / Uribe type of crap every day.
Love your suit, love your post.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Uribe fields the ball a hell of a lot better than Fields does.

Uribe is erratic, at best.

BringBackBlkJack
07-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Josh Fields for A-Rod. Straight up.

I would issue a Teal Police summons, but I think a statement of that magnitude teals itself. :tongue:

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:32 PM
Uribe fields the ball a hell of a lot better than Fields does.


In that case then Uribe also fields better than Crede... you wan't Uribe over Crede?

Lip Man 1
07-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Absolutely awful news with Crede right before the start of the biggest road trip of the season.

If there was any question about the Sox somehow working out a long term deal with his agent and him returning, that notion just flew out the window.

Fields hasn't exactly been ripping up the minor leagues, he's had injuries himself but hopefully he can contribute.

The last month it seems the Sox just can't shake the injury bug...one guy after another heads to the 15 day DL.

Lip

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:34 PM
Uribe fields the ball a hell of a lot better than Fields does.

And that is why he can be a late inning defensive replacement. We need more than a .220 average from a corner infielder (I'm looking at you Konerko as well).

Noneck
07-25-2008, 03:35 PM
If there was any question about the Sox somehow working out a long term deal with his agent and him returning, that notion just flew out the window.



Lip
On the other hand at this point, I don't see a long term contract with any team.

spiffie
07-25-2008, 03:36 PM
Uribe fields the ball a hell of a lot better than Fields does.
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

white sox bill
07-25-2008, 03:37 PM
There may be light at end of tunnel, wasn't it an injury that gave us Dewayne Wise? One door closes another opens

twsoxfan5
07-25-2008, 03:39 PM
I think this might all but end Crede's career here after 08. I know that it was probably going to happen anyways, but there is no way they sign him long term for big money now as he has seemed to have nagging back issues all year.

TSXNaVi
07-25-2008, 03:39 PM
There may be light at end of tunnel, wasn't it an injury that gave us Dewayne Wise? One door closes another opens

To me this looks like a sideways move.............A unheathly Crede in the field is a a healthy Josh Fields in the field. Crede's bat has been silent which is a sign of his back bothering him. Fields will be an improvement at the plate. Give Crede a few days off to rest and lets hope the back gets fixed and he comes back on a tear like he did during that Minn home series

DeadMoney
07-25-2008, 03:41 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

When you just go to a game and watch Fields, his defense sticks out. Having the ability to do that at Spring Training the last few years (seeing each on back-to-back days, or even in the same game) shows a lot.

IMO, Fields is no where near as comfortable or as smooth as Crede is at 3B. Now, comfort and smoothness doesn't equate to making all of the plays, but if you at least look OK, you'll draw far less criticism. Fields just makes plays like he's in a panic at times.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

Uribe is 'slick fielding' at 3B? Bull crap.

Your statement about Daver is laughable, too. One sentence statements with absolutely no explanation is Daver in a nutshell. Yep, that's trustworthy information. Methinks the general opinion around here would be different if he wasn't a mod.

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

You know, I am really loving the new shtick. Keep it up.

TSXNaVi
07-25-2008, 03:42 PM
We are overlooking the biggest problem now.................who do we trade? all the rumors were with Josh Fields going to somewhere for pitching / the Roberts rumor thats been for ever. With Crede down we cant make a trade with Josh because who starts at 3rd??????????

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:43 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

How many games do we expect to win over a two week span with two guys hitting under .220 at corner IF positions? Defense at those spots is a luxury. They are both offense first positions. Always have been. Always will be. I think we got spoiled with Crede, but if Fields can hit, it will more than make up for his D.

SoxNation05
07-25-2008, 03:43 PM
****

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:43 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.


Yes because of all the 22 games he has started at 3B in his career.

Give me a break people.

Unreal

spiffie
07-25-2008, 03:45 PM
How many games do we expect to win over a two week span with two guys hitting under .220 at corner IF positions? Defense at those spots is a luxury. They are both offense first positions. Always have been. Always will be. I think we got spoiled with Crede, but if Fields can hit, it will more than make up for his D.
3B is a defensive position. I don't care if my 3B hits .200 if he can make plays. The Sox have plenty of offense around the field, they shouldn't be sacrificing it at 3B to put someone who has no business there in that spot, especially if the guy isn't even hitting that well. If Fields were hitting 300 with 25 HR it might be different, but he's a K machine with no patience, a few HR's here and there, and plays 3B like someone's ass chews gum.

And Konerko is a much better hitter than his current average. Look at the hit he had to start the game-winning rally on Wed. afternoon. He'll be fine and be hitting like Paulie of old in no time.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
Uribe is 'slick fielding' at 3B? Bull crap.

Your statement about Daver is laughable, too. One sentence statements with absolutely no explanation is Daver in a nutshell.

People have officially gone nuts here. At the beginning of the year, it was all, trade Joe, play Fields everyday. Joe starts playing well, and all of a sudden Fields is Roger Dorn at third base. Meanwhile, a couple months ago, everyone wanted to drive Uribe to the airport on his way out of town...this was when he was playing 2B, a much more important defensive position, a position that historically has low hitting players play it. Now people want to move him to third? Makes no sense at all.

102605
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
I'm sure they are being very precautious with Joe. Everyone here is posting like he is out for the season! Relax. Didn't he go on the DL for awhile in 05 and then come back on a tear?

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
3B is a defensive position. I don't care if my 3B hits .200 if he can make plays. The Sox have plenty of offense around the field, they shouldn't be sacrificing it at 3B to put someone who has no business there in that spot, especially if the guy isn't even hitting that well. If Fields were hitting 300 with 25 HR it might be different, but he's a K machine with no patience, a few HR's here and there, and plays 3B like someone's ass chews gum.


Another golden post.

Keep it up.

:rolleyes:

cheezheadsoxfan
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
3B is a defensive position. I don't care if my 3B hits .200 if he can make plays. The Sox have plenty of offense around the field, they shouldn't be sacrificing it at 3B to put someone who has no business there in that spot, especially if the guy isn't even hitting that well. If Fields were hitting 300 with 25 HR it might be different, but he's a K machine with no patience, a few HR's here and there, and plays 3B like someone's ass chews gum.

Agreed. I don't see how good defense at 3B can be considered optional.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
3B is a defensive position. I don't care if my 3B hits .200 if he can make plays. The Sox have plenty of offense around the field, they shouldn't be sacrificing it at 3B to put someone who has no business there in that spot, especially if the guy isn't even hitting that well. If Fields were hitting 300 with 25 HR it might be different, but he's a K machine with no patience, a few HR's here and there, and plays 3B like someone's ass chews gum.

Once again, we've been 'sacrificing' defense all year long.

Is this a problem with defense, or Fields himself? I'm beginning to think it's the latter, because I don't remember the urgency from everyone around here for defense at 3B all year.

BTW, you know who else has no business at 3B everyday? Juan Uribe.

twsoxfan5
07-25-2008, 03:47 PM
We are overlooking the biggest problem now.................who do we trade? all the rumors were with Josh Fields going to somewhere for pitching / the Roberts rumor thats been for ever. With Crede down we cant make a trade with Josh because who starts at 3rd??????????

Or maybe this is a blessing in disguise and it was meant to happen for a reason. Maybe Roberts will get busted for roids in a week and Fields becomes an all star. Point being you can't take trade rumors seriously enough to get dissapointed about our trade bait having to play b/c our starting 3rd baseman is hurt.

whitesox901
07-25-2008, 03:47 PM
People have officially gone nuts here. At the beginning of the year, it was all, trade Joe, play Fields everyday. Joe starts playing well, and all of a sudden Fields is Roger Dorn at third base. Meanwhile, a couple months ago, everyone wanted to drive Uribe to the airport on his way out of town...this was when he was playing 2B, a much more important defensive position, a position that historically has low hitting players play it. Now people want to move him to third? Makes no sense at all.

Right on the money!

spiffie
07-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Uribe is 'slick fielding' at 3B? Bull crap.

Your statement about Daver is laughable, too. One sentence statements with absolutely no explanation is Daver in a nutshell. Yep, that's trustworthy information. Methinks the general opinion around here would be different if he wasn't a mod.
Uribe is slick fielding wherever he plays. Especially at 3rd where that cannon-like arm of his comes in pretty darn handy.

Daver knows more about baseball than pretty much anyone on WSI this side of ondafarm. When he decides to post at length from time to time it is like getting an advanced class in baseball knowledge.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:49 PM
Agreed. I don't see how good defense at 3B can be considered optional.


I would consider the arguement if there was more evidence of this "great fielding 3B" in Juan Uribe other than 22 miserable games he has started at that position for his career.

SoxNation05
07-25-2008, 03:49 PM
Now we can't get a 1,2 or 3 starter like I wanted. GD Crede.

102605
07-25-2008, 03:50 PM
Uribe is slick fielding wherever he plays. Especially at 3rd where that cannon-like arm of his comes in pretty darn handy.


Juan is that you?

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:50 PM
I would consider the arguement if there was more evidence of this "great fielding 3B" in Juan Uribe other than 22 miserable games he has started at that position for his career.

But he has a cannon...

...so does Fields.

dickallen15
07-25-2008, 03:50 PM
And that is why he can be a late inning defensive replacement. We need more than a .220 average from a corner infielder (I'm looking at you Konerko as well).
What is it about Fields .248 average in AAA that says he'll hit over .220?

DeadMoney
07-25-2008, 03:50 PM
Let's face it, Crede hasn't been hitting well lately and has struggled in the field too (which is very unusual for him).

So, here's what this amounts to (in my eyes):
- Adds some power
- Adds some speed
- Takes away a couple hits
- Adds some K's (but that potentially takes away double plays)
- Takes away some defense

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:50 PM
3B is a defensive position.

False.

The number of people stuck at third to get their stick in the lineup is too numerous to count.

I played third in college and it sure wasn't because I was a slick fielding .220 hitter. I wouldn't have seen the field. You need a guy to be able to field but SS, 2B, CF, and catcher are your "defensive" positions. Corner OF and corner IF are certainly not.

oeo
07-25-2008, 03:53 PM
What is it about Fields .248 average in AAA that says he'll hit over .220?

Crazier things have happened.

Look at the Twins...they bring up some crap hitting minor leaguer every year, and he bats .350. Alexi Casilla, anybody?

Fields was sent down when he earned a job last year, then he had to battle injuries. Give the guy a break.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 03:53 PM
What is it about Fields .248 average in AAA that says he'll hit over .220?

Wow.

Well for starters, his 3/4 of a season last year. He's been hurt most of the year in AAA, which I'm willing to cut him some slack for. I'm not guaranteeing he will hit over .220, but we've seen Uribe for what 4 or 5 seasons now?

There is a reason Fields is mentioned in every trade rumor...other teams want him....sure as a hell of a lot more than Juan Uribe.

Are people seriously calling for Uribe to play everyday? Do you not remember how bad he was earlier this year?

If I summarize some of the lineup/trade demands some people have made, we would have this for a lineup.

1. SS Alexei (and his .330 OBP)
2. 2B Richar (since thankfully we were able to trade OC to someone stupid enough to want a good SS)
3. LF TCQ
4. RF Dye
5. DH Thome (of course Thome would platoon with Konerko at DH so in some cases Konerko would be in there).
6. C AJ
7. 1B Swisher
8. CF BA
9 3B Uribe

It would have to be a great defesnive team...since it would produce about 3 runs a game.

California Sox
07-25-2008, 03:53 PM
“Guys who can field you can shake out of any old tree. Find me guys who can hit.”- Rogers Hornsby

Anyone who thought the Sox were going to give Crede $10 mil a year and trade Fields who can man the position at $500,000 isn't thinking straight. They wouldn't pay Ventura, suddenly they're going to pay Crede? I love the guy, but it makes no sense.

And second, just because they called up Fields doesn't mean Uribe can't play. Maybe they'll alternate them. I think everyone needs to calm down a little. Fields is going to be our starting third baseman for the next couple of years. We can certainly live with him for the next thirteen days.

Also, Crede and Ventura weren't finished products when they came to the bigs either offensively or defensively. I think we need to cut Fields a little slack.

doublem23
07-25-2008, 03:54 PM
Uribe is erratic, at best.

Better than ****ty.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2008, 03:54 PM
1026:

Joe did go on the DL later in the 05 season but if memory serves it was because of a finger problem not his back.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 03:54 PM
False.

The number of people stuck at third to get their stick in the lineup is too numerous to count.

I played third in college and it sure wasn't because I was a slick fielding .220 hitter. I wouldn't have seen the field. You need a guy to be able to field but SS, 2B, CF, and catcher are your "defensive" positions. Corner OF and corner IF are certainly not.


This is when someone will give us the Nick Punto arguement and that's when I will go to the bathroom to throw up.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-25-2008, 03:56 PM
Well this has calmed down the "What About Paulie" thread.

PatK
07-25-2008, 03:57 PM
Here's to Josh Fields hopefully pulling a Ryan Howard this time up:gulp:

SoxNation05
07-25-2008, 03:58 PM
This is so ****ing frustrating.

dickallen15
07-25-2008, 03:59 PM
Wow.

Well for starters, his 3/4 of a season last year. He's been hurt most of the year in AAA, which I'm willing to cut him some slack for. I'm not guaranteeing he will hit over .220, but we've seen Uribe for what 4 or 5 seasons now?

There is a reason Fields is mentioned in every trade rumor...other teams want him....sure as a hell of a lot more than Juan Uribe.

Are people seriously calling for Uribe to play everyday? Do you not remember how bad he was earlier this year?

If I summarize some of the lineups demands some people have made, we would have this for lineup.

1. SS Alexei (and his .330 OBP)
2. 2B Richar (but since thankfully we were able to trade OC to someone stupid enought to want a good SS)
3. LF TCQ
4. RF Dye
5. DH Thome
6. C AJ
7. 1B Swisher
8. CF BA
9 3B Uribe

It would have to be a great defesnive team...since it would produce about 3 runs a game.
You do realize on Sept 14 last year when he was being talked about like the second coming, he was hitting .228 with a .284 OBP. He's not a very good hitter unfortunately.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:04 PM
You do realize on Sept 14 last year when he was being talked about like the second coming, he was hitting .228 with a .284 OBP. He's not a very good hitter unfortunately.

I've never said he was the 2nd coming. I'm hoping he will man the spot for two weeks, be sent back down, and we will have someone else at 3b next year. But if I had to choose between him and Uribe at third I honestly can't believe there is a debate.

spiffie
07-25-2008, 04:04 PM
I've never said he was the 2nd coming. I'm hoping he will man the spot for two weeks, be sent back down, and we will have someone else at 3b next year. But if I had to choose between him and Uribe at third I honestly can't believe there is a debate.
Neither can I. I'll take the guy who doesn't play the field like he's never seen a baseball glove before.

asindc
07-25-2008, 04:05 PM
Anyone who thought the Sox were going to give Crede $10 mil a year and trade Fields who can man the position at $500,000 isn't thinking straight. They wouldn't pay Ventura, suddenly they're going to pay Crede? I love the guy, but it makes no sense.

And second, just because they called up Fields doesn't mean Uribe can't play. Maybe they'll alternate them. I think everyone needs to calm down a little. Fields is going to be our starting third baseman for the next couple of years. We can certainly live with him for the next thirteen days.

Also, Crede and Ventura weren't finished products when they came to the bigs either offensively or defensively. I think we need to cut Fields a little slack.

I agree that we should not go into a panic mode here, especially since Fields has played at the major league level before, but I think some of the hand-wringing is due to the upcoming road trip. If this had happened in mid-May, I don't think the anxiety meter would be jumping so much.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:06 PM
Neither can I. I'll take the guy who doesn't play the field like he's never seen a baseball glove before.

That doesn't describe Fields. He isn't great defesnively but he's not as bad as you make it seem. FOJU. Unreal.

I do not think Fields is a long term answer at third. I have said this in other threads. But I also don't have some romanticized visions of Juan Freaking Uribe.

TDog
07-25-2008, 04:06 PM
Exactly.

I HATE to question Kenny and Ozzie, as they have a World Series ring and I don't. But in this case it seems the team would be better off with the slick fielding Uribe instead of Fields who is just not capable, at least according to Daver whose judgment is pretty damn near infallible on these matters, of fielding 3B at a major league level.

I agree that I hate to question Sox management, not just because they have shown success by putting together and leading a World Series champion in this decade, but because they have access to more information than fans to. I hope this move works out. It certainly isn't good news for anyone other than Fields. This move has the feel of desperation.

I wonder if management has known that Crede has been playing hurt -- they would have to have known that, really, considering the number of games Crede has missed because of his bad back -- and tried to keep going with him knowing that a diminished Crede was better than Fields, offensively and defensively. This would be compounded by Fields having been hurt this year.

Tigers fans will consider this good news. Crede has historically been a Tiger killer and has historically hit very well in Detroit. I hope Fields has a good offensive series to wipe those smiles off their face. I don't expect that to happen.

Teams have a book on Fields from last season. They will have a much better idea of how to pitch him. I expect Fields to strike out more than anyone in the lineup in the games he plays. I expect Sox pitching will be diminished by his presence at third base.

I hope I am wrong. I had hoped the Sox would trade Fields, especially before returning to the majors and facing offensive frustration.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 04:10 PM
Well, I guess now we're going to find out if he has improved his defense at all and whether or not those numbers he put up were a fluke or not.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:11 PM
Neither can I. I'll take the guy who doesn't play the field like he's never seen a baseball glove before.

You're being overly dramatic now.

Face it, the majority of the people that post here have a fantasy baseball view of the game, much like the White Sox themselves do, we don't care if you can catch the ball, just as long as you can hit it.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 04:13 PM
You're being overly dramatic now.

Face it, the majority of the people that post here have a fantasy baseball view of the game, much like the White Sox themselves do, we don't care if you can catch the ball, just as long as you can hit it.
To be fair though, I do think that Josh Fields has at least seen a baseball glove before, I don't recall him going out there bare handed last year.

spiffie
07-25-2008, 04:14 PM
You're being overly dramatic now.

Face it, the majority of the people that post here have a fantasy baseball view of the game, much like the White Sox themselves do, we don't care if you can catch the ball, just as long as you can hit it.
You're right. Fields has seen a glove before. He's not always sure what exactly he is supposed to do with it though.

It's the Playstation effect. "This works fine on my PS3, it should work fine on the field."

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:16 PM
You're being overly dramatic now.

Face it, the majority of the people that post here have a fantasy baseball view of the game, much like the White Sox themselves do, we don't care if you can catch the ball, just as long as you can hit it.

I really hope you aren't refering to me. I do, however, realize, that you need some guys on your team that are there for their offense first and their defense second. Typically those guys play the following positions: LF, RF, 3B, 1B, and DH. If you have a player like Hanley Ramirez or Michale Young, who hit like these corner guys, you can have a more defensive minded player. We already have a 1B hitting like a middle IF. We do not have the luxury of another defense only player at one of these historically hitter friendly positons.

If we play Uribe everyday that leaves us with Dye, TCQ, and Thome, (maybe Swisher) as the only legit home run threats in our lineup. Other guys can go yard, but do so fairly infrequently. For a team with no team speed, that does not bode well.

Carolina Kenny
07-25-2008, 04:19 PM
Joe Crede will be missed this series.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2008, 04:20 PM
Joe Crede will be missed this series.

Given the way Crede has manhandled Detroit in the past, the happiest people today have to be the Tigers.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:22 PM
I really hope you aren't refering to me. I do, however, realize, that you need some guys on your team that are there for their offense first and their defense second. Typically those guys play the following positions: LF, RF, 3B, 1B, and DH. If you have a player like Hanley Ramirez or Michale Young, who hit like these corner guys, you can have a more defensive minded player. We already have a 1B hitting like a middle IF. We do not have the luxury of another defense only player at one of these historically hitter friendly positons.

If we play Uribe everyday that leaves us with Dye, TCQ, and Thome, (maybe Swisher) as the only legit home run threats in our lineup. Other guys can go yard, but do so fairly infrequently. For a team with no team speed, that does not bode well.

This team is getting very good offensive production from a defensive position with AJ, you can have a slick defender at third even if he isn't a huge offensive threat because of that.

I don't believe in "typical" anything, that is a damn lousy way to approach fielding a baseball team.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 04:22 PM
Given the way Crede has manhandled Detroit in the past, the happiest people today have to be the Tigers.
Didn't Fields do fairly well against Detroit last year?

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:23 PM
I would also like to point out that a fan on motownsports has been claiming the past few days as the key to the game is to have Crede make an error so Floyd gives up a bunch of unearned runs. (Yes this is ludicrous arguemnt...how a team makes another team make an error is beyond me. Also, while Floyd has given up a bunch of unearned runs, they have been in a few games, but I digress). Nuts as this may be, it gives some insight into how other teams fans view Crede's D. He frankly hasn't been that great this year, all the outstanding plays notwithstanding.

ArkanSox
07-25-2008, 04:23 PM
In lieu of a trade, this was the only logical move by Sox management. They call up Fields to man third base, hopefully get a healed Crede back in a couple of weeks (ready for the stretch run), and continue to have Uribe available for varied infield position relief work.

Nate Robertson may just be the cure for both Fields and PK tonight.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:23 PM
Didn't Fields do fairly well against Detroit last year?

Yes. But don't let that get in the way of this argument.

doublem23
07-25-2008, 04:24 PM
Yes. But don't let that get in the way of this argument.

Crede's hit most of the Tigers' staff pretty well his whole career, too, so what's the point?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/b-pvb.cgi?n1=credejo01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=credejo01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=DET&orderby=PA&orderbyb=Name

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Yes. But don't let that get in the way of this argument.
Well, he still strikes out a ton and to call him an awful fielder would be too nice of a compliment. Having said that I think Uribe has already made two errors in his three(?) starts at third, so I don't think Uribe is a whole lot better. But we're going to find out how relaceable or not Fields is here.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:26 PM
This team is getting very good offensive production from a defensive position with AJ, you can have a slick defender at third even if he isn't a huge offensive threat because of that.

I don't believe in "typical" anything, that is a damn lousy way to approach fielding a baseball team.

AJ is having a good year hitting for a catcher. He has a good average and good RBI totals. He has little power and by no means gives you the luxury to have Uribe at 3B.

We are also getting very poor offensive production from 1B. You have to look at the team as a whole and not just cherry pick players to make your argument.

This team scores runs via the homerun...Fields may not hit for average, but he has a better chance of going yard than Uribe. If we had some team speed and could manufacture runs, I could absorb having Uribe at third a lot more.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 04:27 PM
Out of curiousity, could Alexei play third? He certainly has the arm for it.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:27 PM
AJ is having a good year hitting for a catcher. He has a good average and good RBI totals. He has little power and by no means gives you the luxury to have Uribe at 3B.

We are also getting very poor offensive production from 1B. You have to look at the team as a whole and not just cherry pick players to make your argument.

This team scores runs via the homerun...Fields may not hit for average, but he has a better chance of going yard than Uribe. If we had some team speed and could manufacture runs, I could absorb having Uribe at third a lot more.

Then bench the first baseman.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:28 PM
Crede's hit most of the Tigers' staff pretty well his whole career, too, so what's the point?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/b-pvb.cgi?n1=credejo01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=credejo01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=DET&orderby=PA&orderbyb=Name

Well since the debate is between Uribe and Fields, not Fields and Crede....

It's Dankerific
07-25-2008, 04:28 PM
I wonder who will have the better night, Josh or PK. Hopefully both.

I just hope Josh is healthy.

I'm also happy that Crede didn't decide he could play through this tough roadtrip if he knew he was injured. He's risking alot of money for his future by admitting he's actually hurt and I applaud him for putting the team first.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:29 PM
Then bench the first baseman.

For who? I agree, if we could get some production at first base then we could afford to have Uribe out there. The only option for replacing Konerko is to put Swisher at 1B and move BA to CF. That helps the team defensively, but makes us even worse offesively (if possible).

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2008, 04:30 PM
Didn't Fields do fairly well against Detroit last year?

Yes. But don't let that get in the way of this argument.

Crede's OPS at Comerica for 2005-2007 is 1.100. Fields is .911. Both are pretty good, but over his career Crede has come up with some huge hits against the Tigers.

oeo
07-25-2008, 04:30 PM
AJ is having a good year hitting for a catcher. He has a good average and good RBI totals. He has little power and by no means gives you the luxury to have Uribe at 3B.

AJ isn't as bad as a defender as Daver makes him out to be, anyway. His arm is worth ****, but he doesn't let much get past him. Overall, his defense is fine.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:31 PM
Crede's OPS at Comerica for 2005-2007 is 1.100. Fields is .911. Both are pretty good, but over his career Crede has come up with some huge hits against the Tigers.

I agree. I would rather have Crede in there. Unfortunately that isn't really relevant now.

What are Juan Uribe's stats against the Tigers?

doublem23
07-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Exellent

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/b-pvb.cgi?n1=uribeju01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=uribeju01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=DET&orderby=PA&orderbyb=Name

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:40 PM
For who? I agree, if we could get some production at first base then we could afford to have Uribe out there. The only option for replacing Konerko is to put Swisher at 1B and move BA to CF. That helps the team defensively, but makes us even worse offesively (if possible).

Does it?

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:40 PM
Does it?

It certainly doesn't make us better.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:41 PM
It certainly doesn't make us better.

Based on what other than stats from two years ago.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:42 PM
Exellent

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/b-pvb.cgi?n1=uribeju01#choice=&throws=&minPA2=0&minPA=0&orderbydir=DESC&orderbydirb=ASC&n1=uribeju01&as=batter&year_game=career&opp_id=DET&orderby=PA&orderbyb=Name

Pretty good numbers against Robertson, that's for sure.

It's Dankerific
07-25-2008, 04:42 PM
For who? I agree, if we could get some production at first base then we could afford to have Uribe out there. The only option for replacing Konerko is to put Swisher at 1B and move BA to CF. That helps the team defensively, but makes us even worse offesively (if possible).

Does it?

It certainly doesn't make us better.

So you dont want + defense if offense is a wash???

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Based on what other than stats from two years ago.

Anderson is not a better hitter than Konerko this year....as bad as Konerko has been, Anderson has been marginally worse.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:44 PM
Anderson is not a better hitter than Konerko this year....as bad as Konerko has been, Anderson has been marginally worse.

And all things being equal, the defensive upgrade does not prompt you to make that move anyway?

Now we are right back to fantasy baseball perspective, thanks for proving my point.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:46 PM
So you dont want + defense if offense is a wash???

I meant it certainly doesn't make us better offensively...which is the whole aregument for not having Uribe in there.

With BA, Uribe, and Swisher in there, we are better defensively...but it would be such an anemic attack that it wouldn't matter.

Konerko looks like he's coming around, but if he doesn't in the next couple of weeks, I am starting to think that BA/Wise should start seeing a lot more time in CF with Swisher moving mostly to first. But that wasn't my arguement. I was staing that b/c we already have a bad hitter at 1B, it makes it difficult to have a bad hitter at 3B...and replacing Konerko with Anderson doesn't change this.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:48 PM
And all things being equal, the defensive upgrade does not prompt you to make that move anyway?

Now we are right back to fantasy baseball perspective, thanks for proving my point.

That's not what I am saying at all. I am not arguing the merits of Anderson over Konerko. If you put Anderson in for Konerko fine (totally seperate debate), it still doesn't change the fact that you don't have enough other offense to carry Uribe at 3B as your "power positions" in the IF are Swisher and Uribe....that isn't a playoff team.

It's Dankerific
07-25-2008, 04:50 PM
That's not what I am saying at all. I am not arguing the merits of Anderson over Konerko. If you put Anderson in for Konerko fine (totally seperate debate), it still doesn't change the fact that you don't have enough other offense to carry Uribe at 3B as your "power positions in the IF" are Swisher and Uribe....that isn't a playoff team.

TCQ, JD, Thome, Alexei and AJ + whatever Swisher,Uribe,BA,OC bring should be plenty. Winning 4-2 is just as good as 8-6

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 04:53 PM
TCQ, JD, Thome, Alexei and AJ + whatever Swisher,Uribe,BA,OC bring should be plenty. Winning 4-2 is just as good as 8-6

Uribe over Fields and Anderson over Swisher and Swisher over Konerko is not worth 4 runs a game defensively or offensively. And the way some of our pitchers have been throwing lately, asking them to consistently hold teams under 4 runs a game is asking a ton.

I think the bottom line is, however, unless Crede gets healthy, we have a fairly large hole at third base unless Fields or Uribe play above their heads. Debating who should play there is like debating who is the tallest midget.

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:54 PM
That's not what I am saying at all. I am not arguing the merits of Anderson over Konerko. If you put Anderson in for Konerko fine (totally seperate debate), it still doesn't change the fact that you don't have enough other offense to carry Uribe at 3B as your "power positions" in the IF are Swisher and Uribe....that isn't a playoff team.

Yes, I see your point entirely, based on numbers from past performance, means that from a fantasy baseball perspective they can't win. You couldn't be more clear than that.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 04:54 PM
This team is getting very good offensive production from a defensive position with AJ, you can have a slick defender at third even if he isn't a huge offensive threat because of that.

I don't believe in "typical" anything, that is a damn lousy way to approach fielding a baseball team.


I am still waiting for an explanation on how Uribe is this "slick defender at third" by evidence of 22 ML starts there for his career?

Daver
07-25-2008, 04:57 PM
I am still waiting for an explanation on how Uribe is this "slick defender at third" by evidence of 22 ML starts there for his career?

Because Fields proved he wasn't in his half season, anything that is an improvement on him is slick, any SS can play third, it is the easier of the two positions.

Frankfan4life
07-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Maybe playing in the All Star Game messed up his swing. :?: Oh, wait, that only happens in the home run derby.

TDog
07-25-2008, 05:04 PM
... any SS can play third, it is the easier of the two positions.

Most can. The ball gets to third a lot quicker than it gets to short. Ernie Banks couldn't play third, though, when his shortstop days were over. He wouldn't have displaced Ron Santo, but according to Jack Brickhouse, Banks had to move to first because he couldn't play third.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

thomas35forever
07-25-2008, 05:24 PM
If there's anything positive to come out of this, it's better that it happens now instead of early September. Hurry back, Joe. Hope Josh fills your shoes nicely.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Most can. The ball gets to third a lot quicker than it gets to short. Ernie Banks couldn't play third, though, when his shortstop days were over. He wouldn't have displaced Ron Santo, but according to Jack Brickhouse, Banks had to move to first because he couldn't play third.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

Derek Jeter cannot either. That is the whole reason A-Rod is there.

turners56
07-25-2008, 05:27 PM
Just got a text form White Sox Moble, Crede to DL, recalled 3B Josh Fields AAA Charlotte

This is interesting. So does Fields start today?

Lukin13
07-25-2008, 05:27 PM
I hope Josh takes the job and runs with it. Crede's advantage over Josh was his defense, and this year it has been abismal.

I honestly hope that Greedy Crede never starts another game in a White Sox uniform.

turners56
07-25-2008, 05:29 PM
Josh Fields for Chone Figgins. Make the trade now.

Figgins is an FA after this season. That would be a terrible trade.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2008, 05:34 PM
Because Fields proved he wasn't in his half season, anything that is an improvement on him is slick, any SS can play third, it is the easier of the two positions.


How easy was the transition for A-rod (one of the finest SS gloves) to 3B? Not good.


Bottom line. The Sox need start looking long term at 3B starting today just in case Crede's issue is bigger than expected.

Uribe is not the long term answer.

Daver
07-25-2008, 05:35 PM
How easy was the transition for A-rod (one of the finest SS gloves) to 3B? Not good.


Bottom line. The Sox need start looking long term at 3B starting today just in case Crede's issue is bigger than expected.

Uribe is not the long term answer.

Neither is Fields, it's a moot point.

BadBobbyJenks
07-25-2008, 05:35 PM
Figgins is an FA after this season. That would be a terrible trade.

He is arbitration eligible not a free agent I thought.

turners56
07-25-2008, 05:36 PM
He is arbitration eligible not a free agent I thought.

Figgins has been around for a while now. Since 2003 I think? I think he might be headed towards free agency now. Not sure though.

slavko
07-25-2008, 05:38 PM
Most can. The ball gets to third a lot quicker than it gets to short. Ernie Banks couldn't play third, though, when his shortstop days were over. He wouldn't have displaced Ron Santo, but according to Jack Brickhouse, Banks had to move to first because he couldn't play third.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

Memories. Ernie didn't have the quick feet or ability to dive for a ball a 3B needs. He embarrassed himself for a few games in LF, too. Santo tried a little SS. He was making dive plays behind 2B. I'll refrain from further comment on Santo. Today is a happy day.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Because Fields proved he wasn't in his half season, anything that is an improvement on him is slick, any SS can play third, it is the easier of the two positions.

Now who is in fantasy baseball world? While I'm not going to debate whether or not SS is the "harder" of the two positions, anyone can tell you that they are very different when it comes to fielding a ball. 3B is a lot more one step quickness and reaction. SS, is a lot more about your footwork and being able to position yourself for the more difficult throw. At SS, you often are able to "pick your hop." That is you can position yourself to field a long hop. At 3B, you often are stuck with whatver hop you get...and it often times is a much more difficult in between hop. Obviously this happens at SS as well, but much less often.

I love it, Daver. When I use objective statistics to make arguments, "I'm a fantasy baseball nerd" that thinks baseball is played on paper. You make one line statements that really can't be supported or refuted since the have little factual support and then make counterarguments to points I'm not even making, yet you are a sage. Some people worship every word you say here. I think you know the game but I feel that there are many points that you make that are incorrect, or at the very least highly debateable.

Despite the points that I disagree with you on, I try to afford you some respect for you opinion. It seems too much to ask the same from you in return which is a shame.

BadBobbyJenks
07-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Figgins has been around for a while now. Since 2003 I think? I think he might be headed towards free agency now. Not sure though.

Yeah you are right 71 games in 03 he is a free agent.

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Neither is Fields, it's a moot point.

Well, you better start getting used to him.

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 05:43 PM
Yeah you are right 71 games in 03 he is a free agent.

No, he is not. He will only have 5 years of service time after this season. He needs one more year to reach FA.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 05:45 PM
No, he is not. He will only have 5 years of service time after this season. He needs one more year to reach FA.

I have not heard much, if anything, on the FA front, other than the crop of 3B will be thin this year.

BadBobbyJenks
07-25-2008, 05:45 PM
No, he is not. He will only have 5 years of service time after this season. He needs one more year to reach FA.


I guess am not sure how it works, I thought it was 5 years of service time. It is 6 years?

Daver
07-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Now who is in fantasy baseball world? While I'm not going to debate whether or not SS is the "harder" of the two positions, anyone can tell you that they are very different when it comes to fielding a ball. 3B is a lot more one step quickness and reaction. SS, is a lot more about your footwork and being able to position yourself for the more difficult throw. At SS, you often are able to "pick your hop." That is you can position yourself to field a long hop. At 3B, you often are stuck with whatver hop you get...and it often times is a much more difficult in between hop. Obviously this happens at SS as well, but much less often.



That is why Fields is a below average third baseman, he lacks that quickness and the reaction time, Uribe has it, he has proven it, maybe we aren't watching the same games. But by all means play him, he might hit better than Uribe, the fact that you have a rotation that is comprised of a few pitchers that are good groundball pitchers has no bearing on the subject.

BadBobbyJenks
07-25-2008, 05:46 PM
I have heard much, if anything, on the FA front, other than the crop of 3B will be thin this year.


2009 free agents (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html)

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 05:50 PM
I guess am not sure how it works, I thought it was 5 years of service time. It is 6 years?

Yes. For instance, Crede will only have 6 full years at the end of this season.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 05:50 PM
That is why Fields is a below average third baseman, he lacks that quickness and the reaction time, Uribe has it, he has proven it, maybe we aren't watching the same games. But by all means play him, he might hit better than Uribe, the fact that you have a rotation that is comprised of a few pitchers that are good groundball pitchers has no bearing on the subject.
If Uribe has that quickness how do you explain his two errors at third in two games this year and in seven attempts?

Carolina Kenny
07-25-2008, 05:51 PM
Deep down inside, where intellect meets emotion.

Do you think Josh Fields can provide enough defense to support his high risk offense?

The Immigrant
07-25-2008, 05:51 PM
I have not heard much, if anything, on the FA front, other than the crop of 3B will be thin this year.

It is abysmal.

UofCSoxFan
07-25-2008, 05:53 PM
That is why Fields is a below average third baseman, he lacks that quickness and the reaction time, Uribe has it, he has proven it, maybe we aren't watching the same games. But by all means play him, he might hit better than Uribe, the fact that you have a rotation that is comprised of a few pitchers that are good groundball pitchers has no bearing on the subject.

Well I guess let's just agree to disagree. I do not think Fields is a good defensive 3B. I would have loved to have traded him for another piece. My opinion is that the benefit of Fields' offense over Uribe's offense, slightly outweighs the benefit of Uribe's defense (which again I'm not sold on at third just b/c of the small sample size) compared to Fields'. To me, I rather try to get the lead early with offense and make defense subs late, vs. trying to keep it close defensively early and make offensive subs late. I guess this is why I rather see Anderson come off the bench than many people on this site. It comes down to philosophy, both of which have merit.

Bottom line, I think they both are bad options out there and to me its a "who's the lessar of two evils." and that I am quite concerned about Crede's back.

Carolina Kenny
07-25-2008, 05:54 PM
Excellant summary of the reality our talent provides.

thanks,

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2008, 06:02 PM
Deep down inside, where intellect meets emotion.

Do you think Josh Fields can provide enough defense to support his high risk offense?
Ya know, I can't help but look at Fields and think "Oh, there's the second coming of Ron Kittle." He can hit for power, and that's about it. He's gonna strike out about two hundred times, walk about fifty six times. I don't think this team needs another one dimensional hitter.

Daver
07-25-2008, 06:05 PM
Ya know, I can't help but look at Fields and think "Oh, there's the second coming of Ron Kittle." He can hit for power, and that's about it. He's gonna strike out about two hundred times, walk about fifty six times. I don't think this team needs another one dimensional hitter.

The White Sox farm system as it is presently run specializes in producing one dimensional hitters.

Domeshot17
07-25-2008, 06:25 PM
The White Sox farm system as it is presently run specializes in producing one dimensional hitters.


Been that way for a while, Hell, Crede is nothing more than 1 dimensional at the plate. Fields is like a carbon copy offensively to Crede first came up. Strike out a lot, hit some homers, bad average.

I have a feeling if this DL trip turns into 2 15 days, Crede is back next year for another 1 year deal.

soxfandy
07-25-2008, 07:12 PM
Great start for Fields. One strikeout and one costly error. A very easy play to make. Can't give extra runs to the Tigers!!!!

DumpJerry
07-25-2008, 07:16 PM
And his whole problem with lefties is bizarre.

I'm wondering if its his eyesight that has been causing the fielding errors and the poor at bats.
Sounds (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79109) familiar....

cards press box
07-25-2008, 07:34 PM
The White Sox farm system as it is presently run specializes in producing one dimensional hitters.

Hopefully, Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks will help correct this problem.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2008, 07:43 PM
Hopefully, Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks will help correct this problem.

Gosh I hope so.

Daver
07-25-2008, 07:46 PM
Hopefully, Gordon Beckham and Jordan Danks will help correct this problem.

Buddy Bell is already implementing plans to correct this philosophy, I will believe it when I see it, the White Sox farm system is a mess. They can't even leave pitchers on teams long enough to learn what their coaches are trying to teach them.

It's Dankerific
07-25-2008, 09:41 PM
TCQ, JD, Thome, Alexei and AJ + whatever Swisher,Uribe,BA,OC bring should be plenty. Winning 4-2 is just as good as 8-6

Uribe over Fields and Anderson over Swisher and Swisher over Konerko is not worth 4 runs a game defensively or offensively. And the way some of our pitchers have been throwing lately, asking them to consistently hold teams under 4 runs a game is asking a ton.

I think the bottom line is, however, unless Crede gets healthy, we have a fairly large hole at third base unless Fields or Uribe play above their heads. Debating who should play there is like debating who is the tallest midget.

Um, I think the Sox just proved my point.

Contribution from the players I listed: 5 runs, 5 rbis,
Contribution from PK and Fields: 1 for 7, 1 run, 1 walk, 1 DP

I think we'd be ok with BA and Uribe.

TomParrish79
07-25-2008, 09:43 PM
hurry up and get better Joe...we need you

BringBackBlkJack
07-25-2008, 09:51 PM
So if Crede was put on the 15-day DL retroactive to July 22nd, the earliest game he could come back would be.... Aug 6th? Can anyone confirm the exact date? Thanks in advance.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2008, 10:09 PM
Just add it up. 15 days from the 22nd is...

Lip

Adele_H
07-28-2008, 02:17 PM
Crede is the best defensive 3B since Brooks Robinson?

I am sorry... WHAT???!!!

FedEx227
07-28-2008, 02:25 PM
The White Sox farm system as it is presently run specializes in producing one dimensional hitters.

In Indianapolis last week I saw the Knights go three pitches, three outs. Three popups.

Lip Man 1
07-28-2008, 03:38 PM
Where have we seen that before?

Lip

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2008, 05:40 PM
In Indianapolis last week I saw the Knights go three pitches, three outs. Three popups.
oooohhh, they're ready for a call up to the bigs!!!

FedEx227
07-28-2008, 06:36 PM
oooohhh, they're ready for a call up to the bigs!!!

One of the culprits is.

RockJock07
07-28-2008, 07:50 PM
hurry up and get better Joe...we need you

Why? Joe hasn't been very good lately and his glove has looked alot like Fields' so let's see if Josh can come back this season and pick up where he left off last year.

Daver
07-28-2008, 08:07 PM
Why? Joe hasn't been very good lately and his glove has looked alot like Fields' so let's see if Josh can come back this season and pick up where he left off last year.


This is so misguided it is actually hilarious.

Adele_H
07-29-2008, 09:06 AM
Buddy Bell is already implementing plans to correct this philosophy, I will believe it when I see it, the White Sox farm system is a mess.

Good news is that things down at the farm can't go anywhere but up.

Hopefully.

Adele_H
07-29-2008, 09:16 AM
Joe Crede will be missed this series.

Crede of early April & early June will be missed.

Crede of most of the remaining year won't be missed quite as much.


Crede is Rowand in terms of how our fans overrate his defense (again...Brooks effin' Robinson?). Just from this decade, I'd say that younger Rolen, healthy Chavez, Longoria, Beltre were if not better than certainly easily on Crede's level defensively, and the next tier - A-Rod, Wright, Lowell, maybe healthy Koskie, C.Guillen - are not that far behind Joe, if at all.

And that's just the AL this decade. Please.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-29-2008, 07:29 PM
This is so misguided it is actually hilarious.

I'm curious, and I'm sure WSI'ers have answers, but was there any pattern to Joe's errors? I wonder if they tended to occur after he had been in the field awhile? Especially with little or no activity. Say he sits on the bench while the Sox bat, and then goes to play defense. A few long at bats, and gradually his back stiffens up on him. Suddenly he can't make the routine play. Any opinions?

Adele_H
08-02-2008, 01:21 PM
Crede is Rowand in terms of how our fans overrate his defense (again...Brooks effin' Robinson?). .
.


Younger Rolen
Longoria
healthy Chavez
Zimmerman
Beltre
Wright
A-Rod
Guillen
healthy Koskie
Lowell
Uribe


sounds about right. in no particular order.

TDog
08-02-2008, 02:14 PM
...
Crede is Rowand in terms of how our fans overrate his defense (again...Brooks effin' Robinson?). ...

It is now fashionable for many Sox fans to underrate Joe Crede's defense. The fact is, in the 2005 World Series, Joe Crede reminded a lot of people in the national media of Brooks Robinson in the 1970 World Series -- not enough to be named the MVP of the series as Robinson was, but the comparisons came from people who watched Brooks Robinson play.

Crede has made a lot of errors this season. He also has cut off a lot of hits and made game-saving plays on defense. Coming back from surgery, he has been inconsistent, but he remains a superior third baseman. There are some people who make a bunch of errors because they can't play a position. That isn't the case with Crede, although frankly I don't know why he has made so many errors this season.