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turners56
07-23-2008, 04:20 PM
Even though he gave up 5 runs in his 4 innings, I have the utmost feeling that the defense totally screwed him over.

Overall, I was quite impressed. He's got a very good slider, good enough to fool Hamilton into three Ks. He's also got pretty good velocity in the low 90s. I'd like to see him be more a of a ground ball pitcher (like he was advertised as); because in our park, you're not going to live by throwing like Ted Lilly.

Even though the numbers don't look great, I thought he had a pretty decent debut.

doublem23
07-23-2008, 04:21 PM
If nothing else, he pitched well enough to warrant another start, though that will be in Minnesota, so I hope he stock's up on lucky rabbit feet.

thedudeabides
07-23-2008, 04:23 PM
I think he was nervous and overthrowing. His ball wasn't sinking much because of it, and he wasn't throwing as many strikes. He has a nice deceptive motion and looked great against lefties. If anything, I could see him having a nice future in the bullpen. But, I would certainly like to see him start a couple more games before making any judgements. Also, tough lineup to face first time out, not to mention bad defense.

PatK
07-23-2008, 04:27 PM
I would imagine it's hard to look good in your MLB debut against a team that hits like Texas does, but I thought he looked good.

sox1970
07-23-2008, 04:27 PM
Ozzie really liked Richard's performance today. He will be starting in Minnesota.

KenBerryGrab
07-23-2008, 04:28 PM
He's no Danny Wright!

LoveYourSuit
07-23-2008, 04:30 PM
I liked him a lot.

He attacked the zone and avoided walks on long counts. Only 1 walk when I know for a fact his heart must have been pumping at 1,000 miles per hour.

I think he will be more relaxed on his next start an do better.

Compare him to the bad/injured Jose Contreras, I think we will be fine.

oeo
07-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Ozzie really liked Richard's performance today. He will be starting in Minnesota.

I love Ozzie. I'm sure Richard was feeling a little down after his performance today, and Ozzie says he was "awesome" and he's earned himself another start.

Instilling the confidence early. And for those who say he can't handle young players, there's evidence to refute that statement.

AnkleSox
07-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Compare him to the bad/injured Jose Contreras, I think we will be fine.

Yeah, and those little comebacker squibbers that the Twins hit in the ****dome, I think he'll be able to field them unlike Contreras.

35th&Shields
07-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Just caught the postgame press conference on MLB.com and Ozzie said he was "awesome." Ozzie noted that other than giving up the one home run, he threw strikes, and it wasn't his fault he didn't have any support behind him. Added that Clayton Richard would be starting again (or I think that's what he said).

nasox
07-23-2008, 04:39 PM
He certainly did better than Charlie Haeger, but I guess knuckleballers can be spotty like that. Farmer and Stoney were certainly raving about his stuff. He definitely has earned another start, and let's hope pitching at the ****tydome won't hurt him.

It's Dankerific
07-23-2008, 04:41 PM
I love Ozzie. I'm sure Richard was feeling a little down after his performance today, and Ozzie says he was "awesome" and he's earned himself another start.

Instilling the confidence early. And for those who say he can't handle young players, there's evidence to refute that statement.

Ozzie definitely deserves props for handling the young pitchers. he does a great job at that. position players on the other hand.... thats a valid criticism.

btrain929
07-23-2008, 04:42 PM
Hopefully AJ catches him and he has Richard mixing in more offspeed pitches. Besides the sliders to Hamilton and a few changeups, Hall was putting down the #1 all day no matter the count. Unless you're Mariano Rivera, it's hard to be successful that way.

bluestar
07-23-2008, 04:43 PM
I thought it was a good enough start to be optimistic about his future. The key pitching sequence for him was in the second inning when he had David Murphy down 0-2 with 2 outs and threw four straight balls (or they were called balls) to walk Murphy. The inning is extended to Kinsler and he doubles to score both base runners.

SoxNation05
07-23-2008, 04:46 PM
Ozzie definitely deserves props for handling the young pitchers. he does a great job at that. position players on the other hand.... thats a valid criticism.
Sean Tracey begs to differ.

bluestar
07-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Hopefully AJ catches him and he has Richard mixing in more offspeed pitches. Besides the sliders to Hamilton and a few changeups, Hall was putting down the #1 all day no matter the count. Unless you're Mariano Rivera, it's hard to be successful that way.

I didn't understand the pitch selections today against the Rangers, who may just be the best fastball hitting club in baseball. Even after Richard went out, there were some questionable pitches, especially the 0-2 fastball Logan threw to Saltalamacchia after Saltalamacchia looked bad on two off-speed pitches.

It's Dankerific
07-23-2008, 04:49 PM
Sean Tracey begs to differ.

E Pluribus Unum

Tragg
07-23-2008, 04:50 PM
Just looking at the boxscore, it looked like he pitched well. All those errors behind him can't help his confidence out there either. Looks like he gave up a few hard it balls, but made a lot of good ones, too.

Ozzie's very good at handling young pitchers.

TDog
07-23-2008, 04:53 PM
Richard has a career ERA of 9.00

Does anyone expect him to get shelled in his next outing (whenever that might be)? If they do, I don't think that anyone bases that on his ERA.

I wonder if fans of the next team Richard faces will whine if their team doesn't score a bunch of runs off of Richard because he came into the game with an ERA of 9.00.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if Richard pitches four or five shutout innings, the team he shuts down will respond by firing its hitting coach.

I expected Clayton Richard to be a disappointing shortstop before I heard he was a pitcher. Maybe he will turn into a good pitcher.

UofCSoxFan
07-23-2008, 04:56 PM
Richard has a career ERA of 9.00

Does anyone expect him to get shelled in his next outing (whenever that might be)? If they do, I don't think that anyone bases that on his ERA.

I wonder if fans of the next team Richard faces will whine if their team doesn't score a bunch of runs off of Richard because he came into the game with an ERA of 9.00.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if Richard pitches four or five shutout innings, the team he shuts down will respond by firing its hitting coach.

I expected Clayton Richard to be a disappointing shortstop before I heard he was a pitcher. Maybe he will turn into a good pitcher.

If he was going against the Sox, this site would be up in arms if we didn't score in the first two innings.

Tragg
07-23-2008, 04:58 PM
Richard has a career ERA of 9.00

Does anyone expect him to get shelled in his next outing (whenever that might be)? If they do, I don't think that anyone bases that on his ERA.

I wonder if fans of the next team Richard faces will whine if their team doesn't score a bunch of runs off of Richard because he came into the game with an ERA of 9.00.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if Richard pitches four or five shutout innings, the team he shuts down will respond by firing its hitting coach.

I expected Clayton Richard to be a disappointing shortstop before I heard he was a pitcher. Maybe he will turn into a good pitcher.
What?

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 05:04 PM
Even though he gave up 5 runs in his 4 innings, I have the utmost feeling that the defense totally screwed him over.

.

Defense did screw him over: Alexei, Konerko (twice), Uribe, Hall were perfectly awful with the glove in the early going, which I am sure didn't help.

(Team defense has GOT to improve going forward if Sox are serious about World Series title, it's not been pretty lately.)

Not saying Richard pitched flawlessly because he didn't: predictably, sometimes overthrowing; other times trying to be too cute, dicking around with hitters like Murphy while with 2 strikes; and yet other times simply making mechanically lousy pitches out of the stretch.

Now the pluses:

a. velocity - hit 95 mph a couple of times and was consistently 89-93, a tick faster than advertised.
b. movement - too much adrenaline to showcase his best ground-ball inducing, bat-breaking stuff, but we know it's there as he managed to uncork a couple of Garland-esque sinkers.
c. breaking ball - it's not refined by any means, but it did make a couple of all-pro hitters look downright silly
d. change-up - see 'anove', especially ballsy pitch selection to left-handers.
e. pace - worked as fast as Buerhle, but still staying in control.
f. running game- ok, he doesn't have a great pick-off move per se, but compared to some of the hopeless stiff like Freddy, Contreras, Floyd, Shingo, etc - at least it looks like he might be somewhat effective in at least holding the runner close at 1st. Maybe.

I dunno, we might have another John Danks gem on our hands next year, which will make it all that easier to (try to) unload Conteras.

DubSox
07-23-2008, 05:04 PM
What?

x2!!

SOXBOY
07-23-2008, 05:07 PM
He pitched good but his pitch count and team defense not so good.

TDog
07-23-2008, 05:14 PM
What?


What?

I thought Clayton Richard might be the son of Bee Bee Richard, named for Royce Clayton and raised to be a disappointing shortstop.

I can't be the only White Sox fan reminded of disappointing shortstops when I saw his name pop up on the minor lead board.

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2008, 05:29 PM
What?

I thought Clayton Richard might be the son of Bee Bee Richard, named for Royce Clayton and raised to be a disappointing shortstop.

I can't be the only White Sox fan reminded of disappointing shortstops when I saw his name pop up on the minor lead board.
What?

I haven't watched the game on MLBTV yet but I'm very happy to see the responses in this thread. After looking at the box score I was half expecting the bull**** Arnie Munoz and Felix Diaz comparisons.

doublem23
07-23-2008, 05:36 PM
Sean Tracey begs to differ.

Sean Tracey should have done his job.

Noneck
07-23-2008, 05:41 PM
What?

I thought Clayton Richard might be the son of Bee Bee Richard, named for Royce Clayton and raised to be a disappointing shortstop.

I can't be the only White Sox fan reminded of disappointing shortstops when I saw his name pop up on the minor lead board.

I had similar thoughts but I liked Lee Bee Bee and didn't like Royce Clayton but combining both would make an interesting SS.

TDog
07-23-2008, 05:48 PM
What?

I haven't watched the game on MLBTV yet but I'm very happy to see the responses in this thread. After looking at the box score I was half expecting the bull**** Arnie Munoz and Felix Diaz comparisons.

Most fans make lousy scouts. They see what they want to see, sometimes what they are afraid they might see.

Four innings doesn't tell you much. Seven strikeouts in four innings might tell you he had some good stuff. He got 12 outs (there was an error on Uribe that should have been an out, so call it 13 if you will.). Excluding the Uribe error, he allowed eight baserunners in four innings. Counting the error as an out, seven balls were put in play for hits and six were put in play for outs, Maybe the defense was responsible for some of baserunners, but good pitchers get outs when they don't strike people out.

But four innings doesn't tell you much, except that Richard seems to have some potential.

SoxNation05
07-23-2008, 06:07 PM
On ESPN they call him Richard Clayton.:rolleyes:

KRS1
07-23-2008, 06:27 PM
a. velocity - hit 95 mph a couple of times and was consistently 89-93, a tick faster than advertised.


I don't know where the people who are surprised by his velocity are getting their information from. His FB has been low-mid 90's since we drafted him, and somehow someone has convinced everyone that he typically throws in the mid to high 80's. I'm loving the movement on the one he throws a bit slower though(89 or 90), that pitch can cause a lot of hitters to beat the ball into the dirt if set up properly.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-23-2008, 06:59 PM
I think he was nervous and overthrowing. His ball wasn't sinking much because of it, and he wasn't throwing as many strikes. He has a nice deceptive motion and looked great against lefties. If anything, I could see him having a nice future in the bullpen. But, I would certainly like to see him start a couple more games before making any judgements. Also, tough lineup to face first time out, not to mention bad defense.

The way Logan's pitching, he'll be the new lefty in the pen when Boone is sent down.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2008, 07:05 PM
Regarding Richard it was clear he was in over his head today (and that's not a shot at him...99% of any individuals put in that position would do the same thing.)

The strikeouts were impressive though. It looked like he was overthrowing and his pitches were up today, probably because he was so emotional. He just needs more seasoning. He may be someone for the back end of the rotation in the next year or two. He may wind up replacing Contreras when the Sox let him go this off season or when his deal is up.

Lip

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 07:14 PM
But four innings doesn't tell you much, except that Richard seems to have some potential.

Well, duh. If you're looking for guarantees of what exactly the pitcher will be in 10 years, I guess four innings won't be enough. You will need a time machine.

But for some of us, four innings can be plenty - one way or the other. Arnie Munoz, Felix Diaz both had underwhelming stuff that didn't live up to the hype from pitch one, and what's worse, both looked lost & defeated before they even got into jams.

Clayton Richard passed the test. Didn't ace it by any means, but all things considered, I'd give him a C-. Like you said, potential to be a major league pitcher is definately there. Basically same feeling as with John Danks in 2007.

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 07:34 PM
I don't know where the people who are surprised by his velocity are getting their information from.

His FB has been low-mid 90's since we drafted him, and somehow someone has convinced everyone that he typically throws in the mid to high 80's..

Apparently a lot of places have been propagating the same scouting report, which even made its way into WS broadcast booth as evidenced by Darrin Jackson, Hawk, Farmio, etc surprised that Clayton is not in fact a soft-tosser.

Honestly, he didn't light up the gun during Futures games either even though that's where most pitchers try to impress the scouts and national audience by rearing back.

Another thing you have to remember that many minor league radar guns are quite, um, "generous" - Hoover Met for instance had sinkerballer Sean Tracy top out at 97 mph, Aaron Poreda hitting 99 couple of weeks ago, all those old reports of Matt Ginter, Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen, Joe Valentine, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc flirting with 100 mph.... Please.

So naturally, a wait-and-see approach is the best - although FOX game of the week gun is mighty fast as well.

KRS1
07-23-2008, 07:39 PM
Hoover Met for instance had sinkerballer Sean Tracy top out at 97 mph, Aaron Poreda hitting 99 couple of weeks ago

Poreda has hit 99 on more than one gun in more than one stadium, so I would say there is is some legitimacy to that. As for Sean, he was one of my favorite guys when he was in our system, and I can assure you that he in fact did top out at about 97.

sox1970
07-23-2008, 07:46 PM
The way Logan's pitching, he'll be the new lefty in the pen when Boone is sent down.

Highly unlikely, in my opinion. Richard has a good thing going this year as a starter. When Contreras is ready, Richard will probably be heading back to Charlotte.

Supposedly, Brian Fuentes of the Rockies is available. If the Sox are looking for bullpen help, he would be a good pickup. He wasn't very good in the postseason last year, but he has experience. I fear Logan would cave in October.

rowand33
07-23-2008, 07:58 PM
Highly unlikely, in my opinion. Richard has a good thing going this year as a starter. When Contreras is ready, Richard will probably be heading back to Charlotte.

Supposedly, Brian Fuentes of the Rockies is available. If the Sox are looking for bullpen help, he would be a good pickup. He wasn't very good in the postseason last year, but he has experience. I fear Logan would cave in October.

Considering he's caving in July, I'd say that fear is 100% justified.

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 08:21 PM
. As for Sean, he was one of my favorite guys when he was in our system, and I can assure you that he in fact did top out at about 97.

Not in the majors he didn't. Even as a reliever as a Sox, he was mostly low90s, maybe 94 on occasion.

oeo
07-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Sean Tracey begs to differ.

What's Sean Tracey doing these days?

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 08:26 PM
I fear Logan would cave in October.

If our SP pitch they way they have lately, there unfortunately may not be October.

Ideally, Logan wouldn't see much action in October. That's what you pay Jenks-Linebrink-Thornton-Dotel for. Unless it's a blow-out in our favor, of course.:cool:

Railsplitter
07-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Even though he gave up 5 runs in his 4 innings, I have the utmost feeling that the defense totally screwed him over.
.
Same here.

champagne030
07-23-2008, 09:26 PM
Poreda has hit 99 on more than one gun in more than one stadium, so I would say there is is some legitimacy to that. As for Sean, he was one of my favorite guys when he was in our system, and I can assure you that he in fact did top out at about 97.

FWLIW - I sat with scouts for the Reds and Astros at the Midwest League All-Star game last year and they both said Poreda doesn't throw as hard as scouting reports stated at that time.... I held the gun for Kershaw for his 90 mph cookie that got juiced out and the next pitch was 98......They both said Kershaw was the best pitching prospect they've ever seen. I'm sure you know the quality that has come through the Midwest League the past few years.....

Bucky F. Dent
07-23-2008, 09:38 PM
So is it "Richard" like Bee Bee, or is it "Reechard" like Maurice? If it's the later, it's a tragedy that we won't be able to call him "the rocket."

TornLabrum
07-23-2008, 11:25 PM
So is it "Richard" like Bee Bee, or is it "Reechard" like Maurice? If it's the later, it's a tragedy that we won't be able to call him "the rocket."

If Don Cooper is to be believed, it's Richard like Bee Bee.

whitesox901
07-23-2008, 11:32 PM
Liked what I saw, I think had the butterflies not be in his stomach, it would of been a lot better, but not too bad!

kevingrt
07-23-2008, 11:35 PM
All i can say after seeing the performance in the stadium is I am impressed. This kid might have a future in a White Sox uniform. Very nice outing by Richard.

TDog
07-23-2008, 11:56 PM
....

Clayton Richard passed the test. ....

If your grading on a curve ad mainstreaming, perhaps.

I didn't expect much out of him, but I expected more.

As I said, four innings isn't much to go on. He gave up runs in three of those innings.

JB98
07-24-2008, 12:10 AM
From where I was sitting in the ballpark today, it was a little difficult to get a good read on Richard. But he seemed like he had a good fastball, just maybe wasn't locating it as well as he should. He made Hamilton look like a fool a couple times with his breaking ball.

Walking the No. 9 hitter in the second was a huge mistake. That allowed Kinsler an opportunity to hurt us, which he did.

Richard probably threw too many fastballs. Next time, I'd like to see more offspeed stuff, and I'd like to see him get more offspeed stuff over the plate.

The kid had some very poor defense played behind him today. We'll learn more about him the next time out. I'm not giving him a thumbs up or a thumbs down on today's outing. I need to see at least another outing before I can tell whether he can help us the rest of this year.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2008, 12:16 AM
Apparently a lot of places have been propagating the same scouting report, which even made its way into WS broadcast booth as evidenced by Darrin Jackson, Hawk, Farmio, etc surprised that Clayton is not in fact a soft-tosser.

Honestly, he didn't light up the gun during Futures games either even though that's where most pitchers try to impress the scouts and national audience by rearing back.

Another thing you have to remember that many minor league radar guns are quite, um, "generous" - Hoover Met for instance had sinkerballer Sean Tracy top out at 97 mph, Aaron Poreda hitting 99 couple of weeks ago, all those old reports of Matt Ginter, Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen, Joe Valentine, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc flirting with 100 mph.... Please.

So naturally, a wait-and-see approach is the best - although FOX game of the week gun is mighty fast as well.


Don't get me started on that.

That is one thing that pissed me off aobut all the hype with those guys, and then they got up here and couldn't blow anyone away. Ginter was HUGE dissapointment. You might also recall reports Kip Wells was 96-97 in minors and Garland was once said to hit 97 also.

This guy today was the complete opposite. They said 88-91 tops and then he came in today hitting 93-95 a few times. That is exciting to see.

SouthSideChiSox4
07-24-2008, 12:17 AM
Given the situation and position that Clayton was put into, I'd say his first start with the White Sox was successful. Any one of us would have the butterflies pitching in the major leagues and the fact Clayton was starting against the MLB's scoring leaders, it makes it that much more impressive. I graduated from McCutcheon High School with Clayton and had MANY opportunities to witness his athleticism in baseball, football, and basketball. The fact he went 4 innings and struck out 7 is great. I realize he struggled with some location early as he drew full counts on most of his batters faced. HOWEVER, it's hard to criticize the kid when the White Sox defense committed the most errors they've made all season(4). Also, when you have a rookie pitcher starting, he needs some experience and knowledge behind the plate....why the hell wasn't A.J. starting to help Clayton keep his cool and relax out there? It didn't help when Toby dropped a routine foul out behind the plate in which Clayton had to bail him out and strike the batter out. You have to give Clayton his dues, striking out Hamilton 3 times and locating well once he calmed down allowed him to show us his talents he's had since high school. I realize Clayton may be sent down sooner than later due to the fact that Jose is already feeling better, however don't forget this name because if he isn't traded in a deadline deal, he'll be a serious contender for the 5th spot at the end of the year or next season.

JB98
07-24-2008, 12:23 AM
Given the situation and position that Clayton was put into, I'd say his first start with the White Sox was successful. Any one of us would have the butterflies pitching in the major leagues and the fact Clayton was starting against the MLB's scoring leaders, it makes it that much more impressive. I graduated from McCutcheon High School with Clayton and had MANY opportunities to witness his athleticism in baseball, football, and basketball. The fact he went 4 innings and struck out 7 is great. I realize he struggled with some location early as he drew full counts on most of his batters faced. HOWEVER, it's hard to criticize the kid when the White Sox defense committed the most errors they've made all season(4). Also, when you have a rookie pitcher starting, he needs some experience and knowledge behind the plate....why the hell wasn't A.J. starting to help Clayton keep his cool and relax out there? It didn't help when Toby dropped a routine foul out behind the plate in which Clayton had to bail him out and strike the batter out. You have to give Clayton his dues, striking out Hamilton 3 times and locating well once he calmed down allowed him to show us his talents he's had since high school. I realize Clayton may be sent down sooner than later due to the fact that Jose is already feeling better, however don't forget this name because if he isn't traded in a deadline deal, he'll be a serious contender for the 5th spot at the end of the year or next season.

Day game after a night game. Pierzynski needs to rest sometime. Hall is a veteran receiver as well. No excuse for the dropped fly by Toby, but he's a capable handler of pitchers.

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 01:03 AM
Don't get me started on that.

That is one thing that pissed me off aobut all the hype with those guys, and then they got up here and couldn't blow anyone away. Ginter was HUGE dissapointment. You might also recall reports Kip Wells was 96-97 in minors and Garland was once said to hit 97 also.

.

Ah the remake of the 'Vanishing', starring velocity of Sox farmhands... Good times.

I'll say this: Danny Wright was the only one who came close to the gun readings initally, but then Cooper joined the Sox the next year and basically told him to tone it down to improve control, get better movement. (Wright's arm later fell off and that was that.)

Kip Wells is an interesting case too. He never broke 93 with the Sox I don't think, but immediately after going to the Pirates, he'd run it up to 95-97, and he was good for a couple of years.

Of course as 2003-2004 Billy Koch can attest, there is more to it than pure pitching speed. His ball was straight as arrow and a hitters could see it a mile away out of his hand, hence the Pinata City.

BLRMKRdave
07-24-2008, 06:45 AM
Given the situation and position that Clayton was put into, I'd say his first start with the White Sox was successful. Any one of us would have the butterflies pitching in the major leagues and the fact Clayton was starting against the MLB's scoring leaders, it makes it that much more impressive. I graduated from McCutcheon High School with Clayton ....

CC Grad here ('97) - Welcome to the Board and Go Sox!

BLRMKRdave

PeoriaSoxFan
07-24-2008, 02:37 PM
I was at the game yesterday (sitting in the bar picnic table area - awesome seats) and was overall impressed. If you saw his first warm up pitch, he almost threw it wide into the backstop, so I am sure he was amped up/nervous. I couldn't believe how fast he was working. He made Buerhle look slow. Striking Hamilton out 3 times was impressive. I don't think he is quite ready, but I don't think he is all that far away. Of course, its hard to tell with only 4 innings.

rdivaldi
07-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Another thing you have to remember that many minor league radar guns are quite, um, "generous" - Hoover Met for instance had sinkerballer Sean Tracy top out at 97 mph, Aaron Poreda hitting 99 couple of weeks ago, all those old reports of Matt Ginter, Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen, Joe Valentine, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc flirting with 100 mph.... Please.

:scratch:

Tracey, Poreda, Kane, Allen and Barcelo all threw in the high 90's, consistently. Ginter and Valentine, not so much, but both could hit 94-95.

rdivaldi
07-24-2008, 09:55 PM
Don't get me started on that.

That is one thing that pissed me off aobut all the hype with those guys, and then they got up here and couldn't blow anyone away. Ginter was HUGE dissapointment. You might also recall reports Kip Wells was 96-97 in minors and Garland was once said to hit 97 also.

Garland can throw a 4 seamer in the mid 90's today, but he chooses not to throw it very often. If you go back and watch his start in the ALCS, he was zipping it up there in a hurry.

Radar readings are nice, but if you don't have any movement on your fastball, it doesn't matter. Unless of course you have a good change-up to keep them off balance.

pczarapa
07-24-2008, 10:39 PM
I think he was nervous and overthrowing. His ball wasn't sinking much because of it, and he wasn't throwing as many strikes. He has a nice deceptive motion and looked great against lefties. If anything, I could see him having a nice future in the bullpen. But, I would certainly like to see him start a couple more games before making any judgements. Also, tough lineup to face first time out, not to mention bad defense.

Definitely over-throwing and probably one of the tougher offensive lineups to work through. He's worthy of another couple starts and let's see how his nerves hold up.

Adele_H
07-30-2008, 03:40 PM
I think it was Ingmar who said that a good movie needs at least 5 great shots and no bad [aesthetically jarring, credibility-straining] shots.

That's how I feel about Clayton Richard: as impressive as he's seemed at times in his first two starts, he needs to realize that innings like the 5th will not be tolerated and will earn him the ticket to Charlotte faster than he could blink.

No, Redman's bad-luck blooper didn't help. No, having to go to the stretch didn't help. No, Brian Anderson's idiotic throw didn't help. No, the ump's call on Morneu didn't help. No, Ozzie/Hall'/whomever's questionable pitch-calling didn't help.

But ultimately, Clayton Richard is the one getting the blame and rightfully so: for nibbling the bottom of the order hitters, and for some of the ensuing pitches that were frankly just awful.

Lessons learned, I hope.

doublem23
07-30-2008, 04:51 PM
I think it was Ingmar who said that a good movie needs at least 5 great shots and no bad [aesthetically jarring, credibility-straining] shots.

That's how I feel about Clayton Richard: as impressive as he's seemed at times in his first two starts, he needs to realize that innings like the 5th will not be tolerated and will earn him the ticket to Charlotte faster than he could blink.

No, Redman's bad-luck blooper didn't help. No, having to go to the stretch didn't help. No, Brian Anderson's idiotic throw didn't help. No, the ump's call on Morneu didn't help. No, Ozzie/Hall'/whomever's questionable pitch-calling didn't help.

But ultimately, Clayton Richard is the one getting the blame and rightfully so: for nibbling the bottom of the order hitters, and for some of the ensuing pitches that were frankly just awful.

Lessons learned, I hope.

Yeah, the most discouraging AB of last night's game was when he walked Span in the 5th inning with 1 out and Mauer and Morneau lurking, you've got to go after those guys. You can't be loading the bases for their 2 big bats.

kjhanson
07-30-2008, 04:59 PM
Yeah, the most discouraging AB of last night's game was when he walked Span in the 5th inning with 1 out and Mauer and Morneau lurking, you've got to go after those guys. You can't be loading the bases for their 2 big bats.

It was just a ****ty pitch-call. A 3-2 changeup to a weak leadoff hitter with a man at first? You weren't going to roll him over and get the double play. My as well just challenge him with a fastball, which I thought he had decent control of.

SoxSpeed22
07-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Once he gets more experience and better command of his pitches, he looks like a very solid starter. He just made a couple mistakes with walks yesterday.

Adele_H
07-31-2008, 05:36 PM
It was just a ****ty pitch-call. A 3-2 changeup to a weak leadoff hitter with a man at first? You weren't going to roll him over and get the double play. My as well just challenge him with a fastball, which I thought he had decent control of.

The pitch Morneuaua smacked the Bee Gees out of was a (bad) change-up, as well.

Richard slider wasn't working like it was against Hamilton (3 strike-outs) for most of the game. So basically Maurneu was challenging Richard to get him out with a fastball, which he did in the previous at bat (94 mph letters high). Unfortunately, whether because Richard was starting to get tired or wasn't comfortable pitching out of the stretch, he couldn't quite rear back. So he tried to trick the Canadian with a change-up and we know what happened.

Crede24Thome25
08-03-2008, 02:30 PM
I think it's time he goes back to AAA now.:angry:

ViPeRx007
08-03-2008, 02:35 PM
I think it's time he goes back to AAA now.:angry:
Yea but it's the Royals. Nobody beats them!

soxfanreggie
08-03-2008, 02:51 PM
He should be back in Charlotte, and they'll call up another guy to fill a void for a start. Maybe Contreras gets brought back up. Maybe Broadway gets the early call-up or Haeger for a start.

Crede24Thome25
08-03-2008, 03:02 PM
I'd rather see broadway come up to the bigs.