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Cheryl
05-09-2002, 07:19 PM
Kermie--nice article. Nicely written. If I were grading it, you'd get an A.

I disagree with your conclusion though. The reason I'm always leery of basing everything on stats (or basing everything on non-statistical evidence) is these stats would not be the same if Mike was playing 81 games a year in Comiskey Park. Maybe he'd do better, maybe worse. I don't know which way it would go, but I do know the numbers wouldn't be the same.

kermittheefrog
05-09-2002, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Kermie--nice article. Nicely written. If I were grading it, you'd get an A.

I disagree with your conclusion though. The reason I'm always leery of basing everything on stats (or basing everything on non-statistical evidence) is these stats would not be the same if Mike was playing 81 games a year in Comiskey Park. Maybe he'd do better, maybe worse. I don't know which way it would go, but I do know the numbers wouldn't be the same.

Thanks Cheryl. My english teachers tend to like my writing too. These columns are a little tougher. I think I'm getting better though.

34 Inch Stick
05-10-2002, 10:53 AM
I understand why you compare the last three years to each other. The numbers objectively judge where the players are since the trade.

But if you are comparing who will ultimately be better you are missing a relevant factor by ignoring their relative ages. As a 29 year old Cameron is in the middle of the years that are generally considered a players prime. Your sampling would include the best numbers that he will ever produce.

Paul is 26 and I would expect to continue to see improvement. Your sampling of his numbers include the statistics of a young man learning the game. (It would be like including Cameron's second year with the Sox) His increasing offensive numbers each year would indicate that expectation has some foundation.

I know you can only judge a trade on production but we were also trading for youth.

I must be crazy because everyone seems to disagree with me, but I don't think there is a question that Paul is the better player.

pearso66
05-10-2002, 01:48 PM
i have to agree, i like paul better right now. i mean come on if we didnt have paul, frank would still be playign first, and thats not that bad, but what would we do when he went down last year? we'd have perry playing 1st, and granted he is good, but he doesnt haev nearly the bat that paul does. plus we have a plethera of outfielders, we dont need another one. and with borchard coming up in the minors, i think him, ordonez, and lee will be a pretty damn good OF, i dont care what people say, i think lee is getting better in left, and with those 3 bats, plus paul in the lineup, id hate to be any pitcher starting against us

guillen4life13
05-10-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
i have to agree, i like paul better right now. i mean come on if we didnt have paul, frank would still be playign first, and thats not that bad, but what would we do when he went down last year? we'd have perry playing 1st, and granted he is good, but he doesnt haev nearly the bat that paul does. plus we have a plethera of outfielders, we dont need another one. and with borchard coming up in the minors, i think him, ordonez, and lee will be a pretty damn good OF, i dont care what people say, i think lee is getting better in left, and with those 3 bats, plus paul in the lineup, id hate to be any pitcher starting against us

what you also may want to take into consideration is the fact that cammy has had tremendous hitting teams throughout his time after being traded from chicago.

cincinatti won the division i believe. and then you look at last year's mariners team.

it's also pretty pointless to even try to make this comparison because the players are so different, in terms of positions, styles of play, etc.

paul konerko is not known for striking out. cammy is notorious for it.
konerko is a big guy... cammy isn't even close in size, i don't think.
cammy has had the likes of Greg Vaughn, Edgar Martinez, Ichiro, Bret Boone, jay buhner, alex rodriguez, and other extremely good players playing around him. konerko has had thomas, ordonez, and durham helping him, throughout the few years he's been here. think about that... because i think it also has an effect on their performances.

i could keep going but i think you all would get bored. just think about what i said.

Whitesox029
05-10-2002, 07:07 PM
I think Cameron is a good ballplayer, but stats aren't always good when asking a question like this. If Cameron were playing at Comiskey, all would be different. If you were to change the slightest thing in history, it would start a chain reaction. For example, if Louis Gozalez would have called time before the pitch that won the D-Backs the Series, he may have then popped up. You never know.

Daver
05-10-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
I think Cameron is a good ballplayer, but stats aren't always good when asking a question like this. If Cameron were playing at Comiskey, all would be different. If you were to change the slightest thing in history, it would start a chain reaction. For example, if Louis Gozalez would have called time before the pitch that won the D-Backs the Series, he may have then popped up. You never know.

Welcome Aboard. :redneck

kermittheefrog
05-11-2002, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
I think Cameron is a good ballplayer, but stats aren't always good when asking a question like this. If Cameron were playing at Comiskey, all would be different. If you were to change the slightest thing in history, it would start a chain reaction. For example, if Louis Gozalez would have called time before the pitch that won the D-Backs the Series, he may have then popped up. You never know.

So how do you suggest we compare players?

Daver
05-11-2002, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


So how do you suggest we compare players?


By height perhaps?

34 Inch Stick
05-11-2002, 12:36 PM
I got the reference!

Don't sell yourself short judge, you're a tremendous slouch.

kermittheefrog
05-11-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by daver



By height perhaps?

I think uhm... "appendage" size would work better than height.