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Lip Man 1
07-22-2008, 12:09 AM
It made be posturing, it may not be. We'll see...doesn't sound encouraging.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080721-chicago-white-sox-texas-rangers,1,2528269.story

Yep Jose Contreras will save us! LOL.

Lip

Sockinchisox
07-22-2008, 12:24 AM
Cowley has an article up that says he has a "source" that told him that unless the Sox are willing to part with Fields, they won't be able to make a deal.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1067436,CST-SPT-sox22.article

Rockabilly
07-22-2008, 12:39 AM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

SoxSpeed22
07-22-2008, 12:47 AM
Kenny has always shown us that he's not afraid to pull the trigger if the right deal comes. He's also surprised most of us over the years. I don't think any of us saw the Swisher trade coming, or getting Danks and Masset for McCarthy. We'll just have to wait and see.

Nellie_Fox
07-22-2008, 12:49 AM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hidingI would think that everybody is "looking at" Duchscherer. Everybody needs pitching, and the A's (as usual) are in selling mode.

Looking at someone and being able to do something about it are two different things.

WhiteSox5187
07-22-2008, 12:55 AM
I don't think we're going to make any deals simply because we don't have a whole lot to give away...also, I can't help but notice this tone in Kenny's quotes of late when asked about this (in this article and after Ozzie said that he expected moves to be made after Tampa...) it seems to suggest that Kenny is proud of the team he's made and doesn't want to tinker with it. HE thinks it's a good team and everyone else be damned...to be fair though, he has constructed a fairly good team. A hell of a lot better than I thought it would be.

103 screwball
07-22-2008, 06:58 AM
I would think that everybody is "looking at" Duchscherer. Everybody needs pitching, and the A's (as usual) are in selling mode.

Looking at someone and being able to do something about it are two different things.

Props to Rockabilly. I did not hear one rumor about Duchscherer to any team until I read Rockabilly's post. I also remember that he called the Quentin trade before it happened. Until we have direct inside info from the White Sox themselves, I appreciate it when people post rumors or information they have. I understand people not believing everything they read on the internet. Of course all rumors do not come true. Unless they are trolls or post outright BS and lies, I see no harm in some rumors to debate and make the trade deadline and hot stove exciting. I know there are members who do not like it, but why drive away what little potential sources of information we have and spoil the fun for the rest of us. If you do not think a rumor is likely and what to express that opinion, great. I don't think you have to attack a poster's credibility to think a rumor is unlikely.
{I do not mean this directly at Nellie Fox who I also respect as a contributor to WSI}

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-22-2008, 07:03 AM
Kenny was talking to that reporter from WGn (his name literally just left my head), and said "he's always looking" but that he was happy with what he had, and the only trade consideration is to give them an extra boost to win the WS. I took it/take it as every other blanket statement KW makes - something's in the works. It may not be a CC or Harden SIZED deal, but something's cooking.

oeo
07-22-2008, 07:19 AM
Cowley has an article up that says he has a "source" that told him that unless the Sox are willing to part with Fields, they won't be able to make a deal.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1067436,CST-SPT-sox22.article

Well, we better be getting something sweet if we're giving up our starting 3B next year.

Craig Grebeck
07-22-2008, 08:17 AM
I'm holding out hope that IF Fields is dealt, we will have a contingency plan in place.

Adrian Beltre, your table is ready. Please let him be our opening day 3B.

tstrike2000
07-22-2008, 08:23 AM
You can't speculate what KW will do. He doesn't usually broadcast his trade intentions.

doublem23
07-22-2008, 08:35 AM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

:violin:

SoxGirl4Life
07-22-2008, 08:37 AM
I'm holding out hope that IF Fields is dealt, we will have a contingency plan in place.

Adrian Beltre, your table is ready. Please let him be our opening day 3B.


Honestly, I think Joe is playing himself into a contract that the Sox might bite on.

ChiSoxlukes
07-22-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm holding out hope that IF Fields is dealt, we will have a contingency plan in place.

Adrian Beltre, your table is ready. Please let him be our opening day 3B.

Adrian Beltre still has another year left on his contract and his agent is Scott Boras. Better luck signing Crede than trading for Beltre and signing him to an extension.

WhiteSox5187
07-22-2008, 08:57 AM
Honestly, I think Joe is playing himself into a contract that the Sox might bite on.
I was telling that to my brother last night. If he ends the year hitting .250-.260ish with this many errors he might drop to within our price range. But if he goes a tear (which he can) and winds up hitting .270ish, he's gone.

Jim Shorts
07-22-2008, 09:04 AM
But if he goes a tear (which he can) and winds up hitting .270ish, he's gone.

He won't if he doesn't make an adjustment or two. I haven't seen Joe catch up to a fastball in about two months.

dickallen15
07-22-2008, 09:06 AM
Amazing how much love a mediocre fielding 25 year old AAA 3rd baseman hitting .251 striking out 1 out of every 3 ABs hitting with about the same power as Danny Richar this year gets on this board.

munchman33
07-22-2008, 09:12 AM
Amazing how much love a mediocre fielding 25 year old AAA 3rd baseman hitting .251 striking out 1 out of every 3 ABs hitting with about the same power as Danny Richar this year gets on this board.

Because

1.) he's done some things at the big league level
2.) his major league counterpart is a free agent

That said, I'm not that high on Fields. I'm not sure he'll ever learn to hit the breaking pitch with consistency. And, from everything I hear, Crede will be looking for 8-10 million per. Which would be extremely reasonable.

Carolina Kenny
07-22-2008, 09:18 AM
I'm holding out hope that IF Fields is dealt, we will have a contingency plan in place.

Adrian Beltre, your table is ready. Please let him be our opening day 3B.

Its only my opinion but unless Fields can dramaticly improve his defense, he does not fit into our plans.

oeo
07-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Amazing how much love a mediocre fielding 25 year old AAA 3rd baseman hitting .251 striking out 1 out of every 3 ABs hitting with about the same power as Danny Richar this year gets on this board.

He's been playing with nagging injuries all year. :dunno:

It is, however, very amazing how we want to break the bank for our 30-year-old mediocre third baseman.

oeo
07-22-2008, 09:28 AM
That said, I'm not that high on Fields. I'm not sure he'll ever learn to hit the breaking pitch with consistency. And, from everything I hear, Crede will be looking for 8-10 million per. Which would be extremely reasonable.

From everything you hear...:lol:

Did you hear that on XM, too?

spiffie
07-22-2008, 09:32 AM
He's been playing with nagging injuries all year. :dunno:

It is, however, very amazing how we want to break the bank for our 30-year-old mediocre third baseman.
Joe Crede is clutch. Joe Crede is the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, whereas Josh Fields plays 3rd base like Daver's ass chews gum. Give Joe 5 years/68 million and trade Fields for some bullpen help. Done and done.

dickallen15
07-22-2008, 09:35 AM
He's been playing with nagging injuries all year. :dunno:

.
Hasn't Konerko been playing hurt? Now that he supposedly is healthy, most still want him gone and Wise playing.

areilly
07-22-2008, 09:37 AM
Joe Crede is clutch. Joe Crede is the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, whereas Josh Fields plays 3rd base like Daver's ass chews gum. Give Joe 5 years/68 million and trade Fields for some bullpen help. Done and done.

Was.

Joe Crede was clutch; Joe Crede was the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson.

Carolina Kenny
07-22-2008, 09:46 AM
I think that Josh could resurrect his career if we could just trade him to the Roky's.

TomBradley72
07-22-2008, 09:52 AM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

Congratulations on your successful rumor that has not materialized into a trade.

WhiteSox5187
07-22-2008, 10:01 AM
He's been playing with nagging injuries all year. :dunno:

It is, however, very amazing how we want to break the bank for our 30-year-old mediocre third baseman.
If he keeps getting injured, wouldn't that just make him injury prone?

I don't want to break the bank to keep Crede, but if he wants about eight or ten million a year, I'd offer him a deal. I'd rather have a .250 hitter who plays good D (I know, I know, all the errors Crede has made this year, I think that's really just a fluke thing) than a .230 hitter who can't field and can only hit HRs.

kittle42
07-22-2008, 10:03 AM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

You're very proud of yourself, no? :tongue:

spiffie
07-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Was.

Joe Crede was clutch; Joe Crede was the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson.
Joe Crede is still the best fielding 3rd baseman in decades. Yes, he's made errors this year. But his errors haven't harmed us at all, yet he's won at least 12 games this year with his awesome fielding. He's made plays no other 3B could possibly make. When you have a glove like Crede's it is impossible to be overpaid, especially since baseball has no salary cap.

kittle42
07-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Joe Crede is clutch. Joe Crede is the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, whereas Josh Fields plays 3rd base like Daver's ass chews gum. Give Joe 5 years/68 million and trade Fields for some bullpen help. Done and done.

This post might have worked 2 years ago.

kobo
07-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Joe Crede is clutch. Joe Crede is the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, whereas Josh Fields plays 3rd base like Daver's ass chews gum. Give Joe 5 years/68 million and trade Fields for some bullpen help. Done and done.
You want to give Crede almost $12 million a year for 5 years? That's insane. He can't hit LH pitching this year, he hasn't been able to hit a fastball for about a month now, and his D this year is average at best. Factor in his back problems and there is no way in hell I give him a 5 year contract worth close to $12 million per.

jdm2662
07-22-2008, 10:18 AM
You want to give Crede almost $12 million a year for 5 years? That's insane. He can't hit LH pitching this year, he hasn't been able to hit a fastball for about a month now, and his D this year is average at best. Factor in his back problems and there is no way in hell I give him a 5 year contract worth close to $12 million per.

Pay no attention to Spiffie. He never was good at coloring in grade school. :D:

btrain929
07-22-2008, 10:29 AM
You want to give Crede almost $12 million a year for 5 years? That's insane. He can't hit LH pitching this year, he hasn't been able to hit a fastball for about a month now, and his D this year is average at best. Factor in his back problems and there is no way in hell I give him a 5 year contract worth close to $12 million per.

Add to that he wants to trade our best position player (injuries have hit him this year, but he is still very good and very valuable) for bullpen help???? :rolleyes:

Mohoney
07-22-2008, 10:32 AM
You want to give Crede almost $12 million a year for 5 years? That's insane. He can't hit LH pitching this year, he hasn't been able to hit a fastball for about a month now, and his D this year is average at best. Factor in his back problems and there is no way in hell I give him a 5 year contract worth close to $12 million per.

This is all relative to what our 2009 payroll will be, which none of us can accurately guess right now.

A $3 million increase might not be able to accomodate Crede, but a $7 million increase might make Crede's asking price superfluous.

A playoff berth would definitely help. Increased fan interest in the team would help, too.

For those of you that want Crede to stay here long-term, I would suggest that you go to as many games as you can possibly afford, pay to park in one of the lots, and buy several concessions and souveniers.

History has shown that if the fans demand the hell out of this product, ownership will reinvest that windfall back into this team.

spiffie
07-22-2008, 10:33 AM
Add to that he wants to trade our best position player (injuries have hit him this year, but he is still very good and very valuable) for bullpen help???? :rolleyes:
Fields is incredibly overrated, likely never to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis, is not capable of playing 3B at a major league level (as no less an authority than Daver, the most knowledgeable guy on the board regarding baseball, and fielding in particular, has told us) and will eventually set the single season record for K's. If he could net us someone like a Huston Street, pack his bags.

UofCSoxFan
07-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Joe Crede is still the best fielding 3rd baseman in decades. Yes, he's made errors this year. But his errors haven't harmed us at all, yet he's won at least 12 games this year with his awesome fielding. He's made plays no other 3B could possibly make. When you have a glove like Crede's it is impossible to be overpaid, especially since baseball has no salary cap.

Clutchness is a myth. Crede has some big hits but he also has failed many times.

His errors have hurt us. Hell against the Royals he had a 2 out error that was immediately followed by a homerun in the game we lost by 1. That's one example. There have been others. Just the fact that you make your pitcher throw 8-12 more pitches in an inning hurts the team.

Impossible to be overpaid? Baseball may not have a salary cap but there is a finite amount of money to go around. We can't just pay everyone $100 million a year because there is no cap.

I really hope your post above and your "best fielder since Brooks Robinson" posts should be in deep teal.

I played third base in college and can fully appreciate how hard some of the plays are that Crede has made....that slow roller against KC on Friday was a thing of beauty. But honestly, I'd take a guy that makes all the routine plays over there and occasionally makes a good one, vs. a guy that makes a great play and then botches an easy one on the next play.

I'm not sold on Fiedls by a long shot. But I'm also not willing to put up more than 7 or 8 a year for Crede. We can do better in the free agent market.

BadBobbyJenks
07-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Amazing how much love a mediocre fielding 25 year old AAA 3rd baseman hitting .251 striking out 1 out of every 3 ABs hitting with about the same power as Danny Richar this year gets on this board.

Fields has the same power as Danny Richar?

dickallen15
07-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Fields has the same power as Danny Richar?
This season he's hitting for about the same power.

PaleHoser
07-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Give Joe 5 years/68 million

I'm no Joe Crede basher but to offer five years is not smart. Would you give $68M to an eighth-place hitter a year after back surgery?

I also think Konerko's drop-off will keep the Sox from giving five years to anyone for the forseeable future. Sox still owe him almost $30M if I'm not mistaken.

Tragg
07-22-2008, 10:52 AM
Cowley has an article up that says he has a "source" that told him that unless the Sox are willing to part with Fields, they won't be able to make a deal.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1067436,CST-SPT-sox22.article

What pitcher would we get for Fields? A Billy Beane middle reliever turned starter in a career year? No thanks.

Williams had a pitcher - Jon Garland.

Fields, Richar and Anderson are useless - they're 25 and don't hit .300 yet. But Wise is de man..yea - Wise is the answer to CF.
Crede has nearly 50% more errors this year than his highest season total of his career. Lack of errors don't equal good defense, but an abundance of them indicates a problem.

spiffie
07-22-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm no Joe Crede basher but to offer five years is not smart. Would you give $68M to an eighth-place hitter a year after back surgery?

I also think Konerko's drop-off will keep the Sox from giving five years to anyone for the forseeable future. Sox still owe him almost $30M if I'm not mistaken.
Baseball is not an offensive sport.

There is no salary cap in baseball.

Joe Crede hits 25-30 HR with gold glove, World Series winning defense. Pay the man. Trade Fields while he has value.

BadBobbyJenks
07-22-2008, 10:56 AM
What pitcher would we get for Fields? A Billy Beane middle reliever turned starter in a career year? No thanks.

Williams had a pitcher - Jon Garland.

yea - Wise is the answer to CF.

So you are saying the White Sox with Uribe/Garland > White Sox with OC/Contreras?

turners56
07-22-2008, 10:58 AM
Kenny has shown that he isn't stupid. If this team continues to play the way it has this last week, Kenny will make some kind of a move.

kittle42
07-22-2008, 10:58 AM
World Series winning defense.

Ugh.

Mohoney
07-22-2008, 11:02 AM
So you are saying the White Sox with Uribe/Garland > White Sox with OC/Contreras?

Right now, I would take OC/Contreras, but this kind of trade needs a full year under its belt to properly be evaluated.

UofCSoxFan
07-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Amazing how much love a mediocre fielding 25 year old AAA 3rd baseman hitting .251 striking out 1 out of every 3 ABs hitting with about the same power as Danny Richar this year gets on this board.

This site always values future potential more than actual current production, even though we'd be lucky to have the backup play as well as the current starter.

I mean this site nearly rioted when we traded Aaron Miles, Brendan McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, Chris Young, etc...

People still pine for Brian Anderson to play every day so he can learn to play baseball even if it hurts us in a pennant race. People assume that Alexei, who at times struggles with the mental concepts of defense, will smoothly transfer to SS, the most mentally demanding defensive position besides catcher. And yes I know he played it in Cuba, but when he holds onto a ball and allows an inside the park homerun, or doesn't lineup for the right base on a relay, I have my doubts. They assume that Richar or Getz will somehow replace Cabrerra's production in the lineup and in the field even though Cabrerra is one of the better all around middle infielders in the game.

Frankly, I'm more excited about Brent Morel being our 3B of the future than Fields.

TomBradley72
07-22-2008, 11:42 AM
I was in the sign Crede/trade Fields camp earlier this season. But he's on track for 30-35 errors while hitting ~.250s. As much as I have always loved Joe...if it takes 5 yrs/$50MM to re-sign him...you just can't if this performance continues. 3yrs/$24MM...I'd do it and use Fields as trade bait to shore up another area.....but it's not going to happen.

oeo
07-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Frankly, I'm more excited about Brent Morel being our 3B of the future than Fields.

That's laughable.

Not to say he won't be, but you're talking about 'actual production.' Fields has shown actual production at the major league level. What Morel has done has been in rookie ball.

RowanDye
07-22-2008, 11:48 AM
This site always values future potential more than actual current production, even though we'd be lucky to have the backup play as well as the current starter.

I mean this site nearly rioted when we traded Aaron Miles, Brendan McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, Chris Young, etc...

People still pine for Brian Anderson to play every day so he can learn to play baseball even if it hurts us in a pennant race. People assume that Alexei, who at times struggles with the mental concepts of defense, will smoothly transfer to SS, the most mentally demanding defensive position besides catcher. And yes I know he played it in Cuba, but when he holds onto a ball and allows an inside the park homerun, or doesn't lineup for the right base on a relay, I have my doubts. They assume that Richar or Getz will somehow replace Cabrerra's production in the lineup and in the field even though Cabrerra is one of the better all around middle infielders in the game.

Frankly, I'm more excited about Brent Morel being our 3B of the future than Fields.

Fixed. Now at least your post is consistent.

balke
07-22-2008, 11:50 AM
The Sox biggest problem is Jose. With him on the DL, they not only need a pitcher, the guy they want to replace is untradeable now because he is hurt.

The Sox simply don't have room for a starter even if they got one. They'd have to put JC in the bullpen. That would actually solve a lot of problems for the Sox potentially, but it all comes down to JC's attitude about the situation if that happens. If he's not happy in the bullpen, he probably won't perform there. He won't be a closer there when Jenks comes back, so I can't imagine him being happy.

palehozenychicty
07-22-2008, 12:01 PM
He's in the forest, trying to dig up a diamond. I don't know how he will this time with so many untradeable pieces. We'll see what happens.

JB98
07-22-2008, 12:03 PM
I'd trade Fields for pitching without thinking twice. Josh is what most people on this board hate: And all-or-nothing power hitter who strikes out a ton and can't field his position.

If we can get a quality arm for him, you do that.

Domeshot17
07-22-2008, 12:04 PM
I like Crede, and there will be the same uproar when he leaves as when Garland did, but Garland was the most over rated average pitcher I have ever seen. The guy pitched 1 good year, and 1 year he won a bunch of games thanks to the offense. This year he is 8-6 with an Era over 4 and a 1.35:1 k:BB ratio (which is aweful). He wouldn't be doing much more for us than Jose.

Fields at his age has shown more offensive potential then Crede did at this age. Joe has had 1 full year of ABs that he hit over .260, 1 year he had more than 80 RBI. 1 year of more than 23 home runs. He is a career .258 hitter with an OPS south of 800. For all his clutchness, he hit something like .188 in August and September of 2006 as we faded out of the playoff race, and he has a real knack for hitting infield pop ups in big spots. Im not saying he has not delivered, but people act like the Guy is David Ortiz is big spots. Fields will never have the glove, but his stick will ultimately be better, as its already about the same.

You don't invest 13.8 mil into that a year, you really don't invest close to that. Lowell only got 12.5 last year, and hes a better offensive 3b with the same glove. We all are homers, we all think Crede is the best, but if he was not making the errors, he is still just in a debatable conversation with guys like Lowell, Wright, Rolen (who IMO is the best 3b of this decade) etc.


If you can get Crede to stay for something like 3 years 27 mil, thats the deal you sign him too, but beyond that is nuts.

Gammons Peter
07-22-2008, 12:05 PM
The Sox biggest problem is Jose. With him on the DL, they not only need a pitcher, the guy they want to replace is untradeable now because he is hurt.

The Sox simply don't have room for a starter even if they got one. They'd have to put JC in the bullpen. That would actually solve a lot of problems for the Sox potentially, but it all comes down to JC's attitude about the situation if that happens. If he's not happy in the bullpen, he probably won't perform there. He won't be a closer there when Jenks comes back, so I can't imagine him being happy.


Who cares if he's not happy. Closer? what the hell are you talking about, why would you even mention it.

balke
07-22-2008, 12:06 PM
Who cares if he's not happy. Closer? what the hell are you talking about, why would you even mention it.

I'm saying a guy that goes to the bullpen at his age is looking at retirement or no a LOT less money in the free agent market. I think he would kick and scream if the Sox sent him there in the event of them trading for a good starter.

Gammons Peter
07-22-2008, 12:10 PM
The guy is pushing 50, we should be thrilled we got any production at all out of him this year. He has been untradeable for the past two years, if he can't get the job done he should be released.

DickAllen72
07-22-2008, 12:11 PM
I'd trade Fields for pitching without thinking twice. Josh is what most people on this board hate: And all-or-nothing power hitter who strikes out a ton and can't field his position.

If we can get a quality arm for him, you do that.
Yep.

UofCSoxFan
07-22-2008, 12:55 PM
That's laughable.

Not to say he won't be, but you're talking about 'actual production.' Fields has shown actual production at the major league level. What Morel has done has been in rookie ball.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I don't think either is the solution next year. I think we need to bring in a free agent with whatever money comes off the books from Jose/OC/Thome?/Crede. I don't think Fields will ever be a full time third baseman on a good team. I think Morel could be, but obviously he is a long, long way away and I'm hardly willing to bank on him, nor would I shed a tear if they traded him for major leage ready talent.

Frater Perdurabo
07-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Perhaps I should have been clearer. I don't think either is the solution next year. I think we need to bring in a free agent with whatever money comes off the books from Jose/OC/Thome?/Crede. I don't think Fields will ever be a full time third baseman on a good team. I think Morel could be, but obviously he is a long, long way away and I'm hardly willing to bank on him, nor would I shed a tear if they traded him for major leage ready talent.

I don't know enough about Morel. I do think that Beckham might end up at 3B (perhaps in 2011), though, assuming that Alexei takes over at SS and either Richar or Getz plays 2B.

PennStater98r
07-22-2008, 01:08 PM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

First of all, I'm not sure it's talking ****. Some of us (me) posted a comment meant to tease you and the other poster who were battling back and forth. I was asked not to do that any more...

No hiding here.

Jimmy Piersall
07-22-2008, 01:14 PM
I'd trade Fields for pitching without thinking twice. Josh is what most people on this board hate: And all-or-nothing power hitter who strikes out a ton and can't field his position.

If we can get a quality arm for him, you do that.

Amen to that.Josh Fields has career DH written all over him and
i think he could be the guy to do that full-time when Thome is
done with the Sox.That being said,if Kenny needs to deal him
for right now then do it.It should be all about going after more
postseason glory while you are on the brink.

nodiggity59
07-22-2008, 01:17 PM
I agree with the Trade Fields contingent. Trade him if you can get a difference making player.

With TCQ, Swisher, PK, and Dye all coming back next year, this team does not look like it NEEDS another power hitter.

So, if you can get a difference maker for this season's post season run, do it.

PennStater98r
07-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Joe Crede is still the best fielding 3rd baseman in decades. Yes, he's made errors this year. But his errors haven't harmed us at all, yet he's won at least 12 games this year with his awesome fielding. He's made plays no other 3B could possibly make. When you have a glove like Crede's it is impossible to be overpaid, especially since baseball has no salary cap.

I didn't know that Scott Boras was a member of WSI.

kittle42
07-22-2008, 01:24 PM
I agree with the Trade Fields contingent. Trade him if you can get a difference making player.

Count me in, too.

russ99
07-22-2008, 01:42 PM
I agree with the Trade Fields contingent. Trade him if you can get a difference making player.

With TCQ, Swisher, PK, and Dye all coming back next year, this team does not look like it NEEDS another power hitter.

So, if you can get a difference maker for this season's post season run, do it.

I also agree that the Sox should consider dealing Fields for an impact player- even though I still doubt Joe will be back next year, but I don't agree with this notion that it will take us dealing away Fields to make any kind of a deal.

Look at the last few trade deadlines, especially for rental players. The Sox have a glut of decent pitchers and infielders at the minor league level, so I think it's silly to think the Sox can't make similar offers that other teams can and have made for lesser but capable non-star player or higher quality rentals.

We may be a bit deficient in the quality of our top 5 prospects, compared to other teams, but I can't see how that would keep Kenny from bringing in some help. Not every deal is a Santana or Bedard deal.

UofCSoxFan
07-22-2008, 01:56 PM
I don't know enough about Morel. I do think that Beckham might end up at 3B (perhaps in 2011), though, assuming that Alexei takes over at SS and either Richar or Getz plays 2B.

Beckham to third is also a strong possibility, but I think the Sox would like to keep him in the middle if possible, which I tend to agree with. After all, it is a lot harder to find a middle IF that can play good D and hit than a third baseman that can do the same. According to an ESPN post draft chat with a guy from Baseball Prospectus (whose opinion, unlike that of ESPN, I actually respect) Beckham could be on the Sox opening day roster in 2010, as long as he performs as well as they expect. Time will tell.

Morel is a somewhat lenky third baseman that has the body type to put on some more mass that produced some pretty good number at a good college program. I've heard that he was originally regarded as a late first or top 2nd round talent that fell to the Sox in the third. Obviously with all their top few picks, the Sox hope to have an eventual starter. We shall see. I would guess that he is at least 3 years a way IF we see him at all...again it's way too early to tell.

Tragg
07-22-2008, 02:09 PM
I'd trade Fields for pitching without thinking twice. Josh is what most people on this board hate: And all-or-nothing power hitter who strikes out a ton and can't field his position.

If we can get a quality arm for him, you do that.
We had a quality arm - his name is Jon Garland.
Josh Fields has 3 times the trade value of Orlando Cabrera and his .320 obp.
So I ask, what quality arm are we going to get for Josh Fields. It needs to be top quality or this team will turn into 2007 in a flash.
That people are already counting on a 2009 draft choice illustrates how thin, thin this organization is. Treasure the young talent we do have - no spending it on the mediocre.

Soxfest
07-22-2008, 02:43 PM
When is the last time KW really made a big move at the actual deadline..........Never, he got Garcia in June. KW does alot of talking and gives the old well I tried speech!

areilly
07-22-2008, 05:27 PM
Joe Crede hits 25-30 HR with gold glove, World Series winning defense. Pay the man. Trade Fields while he has value.

Joe Crede has hit 25 home runs exactly as many times as he has won a World Series and it's been a while since either of those happened. He's not the same player he was; why is this so hard to accept?

thomas35forever
07-22-2008, 05:47 PM
Adrian Beltre, your table is ready. Please let him be our opening day 3B.
Just what we need, another guy who'll likely take the all-or-nothing approach at the plate.:rolleyes:

Not what we want if we're trying to add speed to our lineup.

Optipessimism
07-22-2008, 06:07 PM
Fields is incredibly overrated, likely never to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis,

This is ridiculous.

is not capable of playing 3B at a major league level

Not at a Crede level, but yes, he's capable of providing serviceable defense at 3B. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, sorry. The entire Sox organization views Josh as a 3B, so I'll side with them versus some comments from message board posters.

(as no less an authority than Daver, the most knowledgeable guy on the board regarding baseball, and fielding in particular, has told us)

This is some serious ass kissing. You have your whole face in there.

and will eventually set the single season record for K's.

Um, Adam Dunn? Jim Thome? K's are only horrible if you can't hit for enough power and you can't walk enough to overcome it.

If he could net us someone like a Huston Street, pack his bags.

And what happens when Street, who has been disappointing A's fans recently with poor performances, hits the DL again? And then what happens when he hits arbitration and wants a nice raise after that? Billy Beane has this guy on the block for a reason.

2906
07-22-2008, 06:36 PM
And what happens when Street, who has been disappointing A's fans recently with poor performances, hits the DL again? And then what happens when he hits arbitration and wants a nice raise after that? Billy Beane has this guy on the block for a reason.

Good thoughts and I agree Beane has Street on the market for a reason. He does this all the time.

I will say this though. Street is Williams type of acquisition, a guy who has been on a downer but has history of performance. Street's health is key, but so is the health of any acquisition. There are medical question marks there, similar to Harden in a way.

It appears the White Sox are not looking for a rental, they want someone they can control if Guillen's quotes are to be believed. But then again there is always a ton of smoke being blown around at this time of year.

PhillipsBubba
07-22-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm sure he can get something for Slow Crede

2906
07-22-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm sure he can get something for Slow Crede

I'm pretty new here but I don't understand these types of comments. Why would they trade Crede at this point? They are in a dead heat for the division lead. He is a proven player. Further, he's a free agent after the year and who would trade for him? It doesn't make sense.

SoxGirl4Life
07-22-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm pretty new here but I don't understand these types of comments. Why would they trade Crede at this point? They are in a dead heat for the division lead. He is a proven player. Further, he's a free agent after the year and who would trade for him? It doesn't make sense.


Because some people only comment when they have something negative to say. :shrug:

Nellie_Fox
07-23-2008, 01:25 AM
Fixed. Now at least your post is consistent.You know, "fixed your post" posts are incredibly lame, but if you are going to change another poster's comment to teal, at least make it teal instead of medium turquoise.

RockJock07
07-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Joe Crede is clutch. Joe Crede is the best fielding 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, whereas Josh Fields plays 3rd base like Daver's ass chews gum. Give Joe 5 years/68 million and trade Fields for some bullpen help. Done and done.

Awful, awful idea.

First, Joe Crede is a average player, nothing special, he's not worth that type of money. Considering MB just signed a 4 year 55 mil deal last summer, no way in hell the Sox spend 68 mil on Joe Crede. The Sox already have a ton of money due to Paulie and if he doesn't return to form, they may shy away from signing any player to longer term, big money deal.

Secondly, Josh has been hurt of late and wouldn't hardly anything back in terms of ML ready bullpen help. He just needs to get healthy and play whether it's here or at Charlotte.

Ideally, I'd like to trade Joe now, I'm just not sure what the market is for him. If the sox wanted to resign him I would do so to the tune of 3 years 18 mil.

JB98
07-23-2008, 11:47 PM
Awful, awful idea.

First, Joe Crede is a average player, nothing special, he's not worth that type of money. Considering MB just signed a 4 year 55 mil deal last summer, no way in hell the Sox spend 68 mil on Joe Crede. The Sox already have a ton of money due to Paulie and if he doesn't return to form, they may shy away from signing any player to longer term, big money deal.

Secondly, Josh has been hurt of late and wouldn't hardly anything back in terms of ML ready bullpen help. He just needs to get healthy and play whether it's here or at Charlotte.

Ideally, I'd like to trade Joe now, I'm just not sure what the market is for him. If the sox wanted to resign him I would do so to the tune of 3 years 18 mil.

While I agree that Spiffie overrates Crede, why on this earth would you want to trade him now? We are trying to win a championship here in 2008, and Crede at 3B gives us the best opportunity to do that.

whitesox901
07-23-2008, 11:52 PM
While I agree that Spiffie overrates Crede, why on this earth would you want to trade him now? We are trying to win a championship here in 2008, and Crede at 3B gives us the best opportunity to do that.

maybe, his .250 avg and his league leading errors, if Fields was healthy maybe he's have a better defensive year, and an explosive year with the bad, but then agian, maybe if healthy he'd a had an Ozuna year, the fact is dont put all your eggs in one basket, I honestly beleave had Fields been healthy all year and doing decent enough, Crede would be gone by the deadline

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2008, 11:56 PM
Just what we need, another guy who'll likely take the all-or-nothing approach at the plate.:rolleyes:

Not what we want if we're trying to add speed to our lineup.
What does he do at the plate that you are not a fan of? He is EXACTLY what we should be looking for in the offseason.

RockJock07
07-23-2008, 11:59 PM
maybe, his .250 avg and his league leading errors, if Fields was healthy maybe he's have a better defensive year, and an explosive year with the bad, but then agian, maybe if healthy he'd a had an Ozuna year, the fact is dont put all your eggs in one basket, I honestly beleave had Fields been healthy all year and doing decent enough, Crede would be gone by the deadline

Agreed, In addition to that, if Paulie and Swisher were doing better this season and producing, Crede could be replaced with ease. Again, assuming that Josh was healthy.

We have always known that crede is never going to hit about .300 but his glove always saved him. For Crede this was a bad time for his glove to go south and in my eyes, if his glove doesn't rebound, then what good is he?

JB98
07-23-2008, 11:59 PM
maybe, his .250 avg and his league leading errors, if Fields was healthy maybe he's have a better defensive year, and an explosive year with the bad, but then agian, maybe if healthy he'd a had an Ozuna year, the fact is dont put all your eggs in one basket, I honestly beleave had Fields been healthy all year and doing decent enough, Crede would be gone by the deadline

Ifs and buts. Fields hasn't been healthy, and he hasn't been doing that well in Charlotte. Therefore, Crede gives us the best chance to win a championship in 2008. That's why I don't understand the other poster's desire to trade him.

whitesox901
07-24-2008, 12:33 PM
Ifs and buts. Fields hasn't been healthy, and he hasn't been doing that well in Charlotte. Therefore, Crede gives us the best chance to win a championship in 2008. That's why I don't understand the other poster's desire to trade him.

I agree, but all im saying is that the only thing saving Crede from not being a White Sox is Fields injuries

2906
07-24-2008, 12:38 PM
I agree, but all im saying is that the only thing saving Crede from not being a White Sox is Fields injuries

That, and if Kenny Williams is to be belived on the subject, no GM was willing to give anything up, other than pitchers they planned on waiving anyway.

Sockinchisox
07-26-2008, 05:27 PM
Cowley just updated and said Kenny met with the media and said the trade market from their(the Sox) perspective is really bad.

Gammons Peter
07-26-2008, 05:43 PM
You know, "fixed your post" posts are incredibly lame, but if you are going to change another poster's comment to teal, at least make it teal instead of medium turquoise.


Do you know what else is incredibly lame?....Teal, and complaining about various shades of teal as if one shade is better than another

Anyone with me on this? No more teal. It's not clever, funny, ironic or witty. Who started it anyway?

pearso66
07-26-2008, 07:01 PM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

Yes you did mention it, but it also seems like I've seen this exact post about 10 times. You don't like people ripping you on this, but you sure like to make sure EVERYONE knows that you were right on a rumor. It's fine if you want to start rumors, and if they are right, that's great, but I could do without the tons of posts trying to get people to congratulate you.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 07:46 PM
When I posted 2 weeks ago that the Sox were looking at Justin Duch from the A's.. Alot of people on this site gave me crap about it and now since many sites have mention the Sox are looking at him. I don't hear anything from these people..

Many people on this site like to talk **** about other members,but once they're proven wrong they go into hiding

You sound like Hangar18. Congrats on that.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 07:47 PM
Fields is incredibly overrated, likely never to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis, is not capable of playing 3B at a major league level (as no less an authority than Daver, the most knowledgeable guy on the board regarding baseball, and fielding in particular, has told us) and will eventually set the single season record for K's. If he could net us someone like a Huston Street, pack his bags.

I can never tell when you're doing schtick...

Daver
07-26-2008, 07:55 PM
Fields is incredibly overrated, likely never to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis, is not capable of playing 3B at a major league level (as no less an authority than Daver, the most knowledgeable guy on the board regarding baseball, and fielding in particular, has told us) and will eventually set the single season record for K's. If he could net us someone like a Huston Street, pack his bags.

When did I say this?

IIRC I said his ceiling was a below to average third baseman, I never said he wasn't capable of playing third.

And we are talking about a team that has historically always been willing to give up defense for offensive production, that is why they had Carlos Lee grazing in left field for a few season's.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 07:57 PM
When did I say this?

IIRC I said his ceiling was a below to average third baseman, I never said he wasn't capable of playing third.

And we are talking about a team that has historically always been willing to give up defense for offensive production, that is why they had Carlos Lee grazing in left field for a few season's.

This team's generally been pretty demanding of their infield defense though.

Only exceptions in recent memory:

Royce Clayton
Ray Durham

Then again, there are Sox fans out there who think those guys could play defense if their life depended on it, so :shrug:

Daver
07-26-2008, 07:59 PM
This team's generally been pretty demanding of their infield defense though.

Only exceptions in recent memory:

Royce Clayton
Ray Durham

Then again, there are Sox fans out there who think those guys could play defense if their life depended on it, so :shrug:

Carlos Lee was brought up as a third baseman.

fquaye149
07-26-2008, 08:04 PM
Carlos Lee was brought up as a third baseman.

So was Konerko. :shrug:

(and as a catcher).

Daver
07-26-2008, 08:10 PM
So was Konerko. :shrug:

(and as a catcher).

Not with the White Sox, maybe before they traded for him as a first baseman.

The White Sox called Carlos Lee up to be a third baseman, found out he was worse than terrible, and trotted him out to left to wear a glove on his head.

munchman33
07-26-2008, 08:16 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/07/chilly-trade-ta.html

ViPeRx007
07-26-2008, 09:25 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/07/chilly-trade-ta.html


He may be telling the truth but I never trust what Kenny says to the media around this time of year.

MCHSoxFan
07-26-2008, 09:32 PM
On the CSN poll just now it said that we need to get more starting pitching, nothing, bullpen help, and then a position player. I agree with that order.

FarWestChicago
07-26-2008, 11:51 PM
You know, "fixed your post" posts are incredibly lame, but if you are going to change another poster's comment to teal, at least make it teal instead of medium turquoise.I am going to start issuing very long timeouts for the unbelievable lameness that is "fixed your post". It the most ****ing annoying, deceitful thing I've ever seen on this site and I will tolerate it no more. You think you're ****ing cute? Come back in 3 months.

Domeshot17
07-27-2008, 01:11 AM
He may be telling the truth but I never trust what Kenny says to the media around this time of year.

Why, Kenny never does much in July, he builds his team in the offseason and sees how it does

2004 we picked up Carl Everett
2005 we got Blum
2006 we got Macdougal
2007 we dropped trow and sold cheap
2008 is just the same. A lot of build up, a lot of hype, and Kenny, if anything, will add a very minor piece.

jabrch
07-27-2008, 01:17 AM
He may be telling the truth but I never trust what Kenny says to the media around this time of year.

Kenny has hardly ever been truthful in any substantive manner with the media. Same is true with Guillen. Why would anyone put value in waht they say to the media?

WhiteSox5187
07-27-2008, 04:44 AM
Not with the White Sox, maybe before they traded for him as a first baseman.

The White Sox called Carlos Lee up to be a third baseman, found out he was worse than terrible, and trotted him out to left to wear a glove on his head.
Konerko played a couple of games at third for the Sox back in '99 and '00. Also he played more games at third than at first for Cincy. So when we got him he was still being tossed around frequently between third, first and LF. It was the White Sox that turned him into a first baseman and he wasn't a particularly good first baseman at first...for the hell of it, here's an image of him behind the plate:

http://www.rookiesquantities.com/Images/UDML95_194.jpg

fquaye149
07-27-2008, 07:22 AM
Kenny has hardly ever been truthful in any substantive manner with the media. Same is true with Guillen. Why would anyone put value in waht they say to the media?


Kenny's been honest to the media about his personnell plans at least as much as he's been "dishonest".

Look at his "Grinders" plan of 2005. Or his "Big 2007 Offseason plans that didn't work out".

That said, your point is valid that one shouldn't put much stock in Kenny's posturing because it's just as likely to be under the radar disinformation as genuine.

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Kenny has hardly ever been truthful in any substantive manner with the media. Same is true with Guillen. Why would anyone put value in waht they say to the media?


Yep. I still enjoy listening to KW/Ozzie, however.

dickallen15
07-27-2008, 10:57 AM
Of course he's not going to tell everyone what he's looking for because of several reasons. First off, he constantly says were he likes to operate, I'm sick of the phrase, but we all know what it is. He's not going to go on a talk show and spill the beans about what he's working on. Secondly, if he even vaguely mentions what he's looking for, that gets back to the team and they play with an added burden. Finally, if what he's after can't be worked out, dissappointment reigns supreme and everyone gets the impression he doesn't think they have the horses to win. It could go either way. The injuries are what concerns me. If they are 2 week things, then OK. If they are things that might linger then DJ Carrasco and Clayton Richard are not the guys I would want on the mound in a playoff race. Of course, on the other side of the coin, most of us were pretty dissappointed at the deadline in 2005 when Geoff Blum was the Sox lone pick-up, and that worked out fine.

BadBobbyJenks
07-27-2008, 11:32 AM
Why, Kenny never does much in July, he builds his team in the offseason and sees how it does

2004 we picked up Carl Everett
2005 we got Blum
2006 we got Macdougal
2007 we dropped trow and sold cheap
2008 is just the same. A lot of build up, a lot of hype, and Kenny, if anything, will add a very minor piece.

Well we did add Freddy Garcia in 04 in a big trade.

Dan Mega
07-27-2008, 11:37 AM
Off the top of my head, most trades that KW has pulled the trigger on where not found in any sort of rumors perpetuated by the media or posters in WTS.

In short, nobody has a clue as to what may happen.

fquaye149
07-27-2008, 01:32 PM
Off the top of my head, most trades that KW has pulled the trigger on where not found in any sort of rumors perpetuated by the media or posters in WTS.

In short, nobody has a clue as to what may happen.

What about THAT TIME OTIS WAS ALMOST RIGHT

jabrch
07-27-2008, 01:39 PM
Yep. I still enjoy listening to KW/Ozzie, however.

Me too - very much. It would be bad strategy to telegraph your every move via the media. Rumor has it that part of the reason he didn't execute plan A or plan B this offseason was that other GMs knew too much about what KW was doing - not from the media but because it became obvious.

KW is getting better as a GM as he flies more "under the radar". I just don't put too much stock in his comments that are direct through the media. I believe they are mostly planned and manipulating.

Domeshot17
07-27-2008, 01:58 PM
Well we did add Freddy Garcia in 04 in a big trade.


Durrrrr, you are right there my friend, not sure how I missed that.

russ99
07-27-2008, 02:04 PM
I certainly hope that Kenny's comments are merely under-the-radar posturing.

With Linebrink on the DL (for who knows how long), Thornton hurting and Masset's recent implosion, I have no doubts the Sox will get a reliever from somewhere by Wednesday's deadline. The pen has given up a scary amount of runs in the last 2 weeks.

We already have the Charlotte bullpen up here with Carrasco and Wassermann, and my guess Russell would be back up next. After that, we're looking at a huge drop-off.

Bullpen help has developed into a need, not a want. Looks to me that a wanted starter and an extra bench player might just be wishful thinking, but Kenny's done it before so I won't count anything out.

Also, Wednesday's not the end of trading, but after then until Aug 31st, traded players would have to clear waivers, which lessens the potential of higher-quality players being moved.

WhiteSox5187
07-27-2008, 02:11 PM
Just my two cents here, besides bullpen help we might need another starter. The only guy who has consistently looked good of late is Buerhle (though the defense let Danks and Floyd down against Detroit).

Domeshot17
07-27-2008, 02:24 PM
what once was a strength is now looking like a huge hole. Starting Pitching has been horrible as of late. Javy had an ERA well over 7 last month and now with this start is over 5 for July, Floyd isnt using his curve that well and fighting his control, Danks is missing location and Jose or Richard neither give us much out of the 5 spot.

We almost NEED to get a starting pitcher now. Javy is showing his colors again. The guy just can't pitch under pressure. This weekend and the 2 cubs games are probably the 3 most playoff like Atmospheres we have had, and he has been shelled in all 3. He has an era over 9 in 3 career playoff starts, he was terrible in 2006 when we needed him, bad for the Yanks, the guy just can't pitch when he has too it seems like.

whitesox901
07-27-2008, 03:20 PM
Well we did add Freddy Garcia in 04 in a big trade.

Don't forget, we got Ben Davis in 2004 too!