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View Full Version : White Sox Need A Starter And Possibly A Reliever Too.


Thome25
07-21-2008, 09:27 AM
I know I'm stating the painfully obvious. Kinda like saying the sky is blue or the Big Mac is served at Mcdonalds. But, the White Sox are in desperate need of a starter and /or reliever.

I'm not panicking. This isn't a pants-pissing, woe is me, chicken little thread. But, IMHO if the White Sox are going to hang in there to hold off the rest of the AL Central and make the playoffs KW has to make a move or two by July 31st.

With Contreras' ups and downs and his trip to the DL and Linebrink's recent disappearance, (not to mention Javy's struggles.) The White Sox NEED some reinforcements. KW is a smart GM and he knows what he's doing. If he makes a move or two then cool and if he doesn't then I know he's probably looking at the bigger picture (next season and beyond.)

But, I think this team can do some damage in the playoffs. This is quite possibly the last hurrah for this team as currently constructed. Crede, Contreras, Thome, and possibly Konerko could be on the chopping block after the season is over. Who knows? Maybe more players will be gone after this year. Feel free to add any names to the list.

IMHO KW needs to go get some pitching or the wheels could be coming off this bus in a hurry. Hopefully he has the A's, Blue Jays, Astros, and Rockies on speed dial.

cards press box
07-21-2008, 09:36 AM
I know I'm stating the painfully obvious. Kinda like saying the sky is blue or the Big Mac is served at Mcdonalds. But, the White Sox are in desperate need of a starter and /or reliever.

I'm not panicking. This isn't a pants-pissing, woe is me, chicken little thread. But, IMHO if the White Sox are going to hang in there to hold off the rest of the AL Central and make the playoffs KW has to make a move or to by July 31st.

With Contreras' ups and downs and his trip to the DL and Linebrink's recent disappearance, (not to mention Javy's struggles.) The White Sox NEED some reinforcements. KW is a smart GM and he knows what he's doing. If he makes a move or two then cool and if he doesn't then I know he's probably looking at the bigger picture (next season and beyond.)

But, I think this team can do some damage in the playoffs. This is quite possibly the last hurrah for this team as currently constructed. Crede, Contreras, Thome, and possibly Konerko could be on the chopping block after the season is over. Who knows? Maybe more players will be gone after this year. Feel free to add any names to the list.

IMHO KW needs to go get some pitching or the wheels could be coming off this bus in a hurry. Hopefully he has the A's, Blue Jays, Astros, and Rockies on speed dial.

Around this time in 2005, the Sox decided that they needed relief help, too. Instead of making a trade, the Sox settled on an internal option -- Bobby Jenks. That worked out o.k. How effective are internal options at starter such as Nick Masset or Clayton Richard? Masset has always been a starter and may thrive in that role. Masset and Richard may get starts this week. Let's see how they do.

I'm not necessarily against a mid-season trade, especially if the Sox pick up a talent like Huston Street or Justin Duchsherer, but I understand that the cost of acquiring such players might well be prohibitive.

Thome25
07-21-2008, 09:39 AM
Around this time in 2005, the Sox decided that they needed relief help, too. Instead of making a trade, the Sox settled on an internal option -- Bobby Jenks. How effective are internal options at starter such as Nick Masset or Clayton Richard? Masset has always been a starter and may thrive in that role. Masset and Richard may get starts this week. Let's see how they do.

That may be the route to go--an internal option. Hopefully it's as easy as that and this season ends the same way 2005 did!!:D:

But, every season is different and right now we have one starter on the DL and one who is struggling. We would probably need Masset AND Richard to both step up and play well. Do I want that to happen? Yes of course. Do I think it will? Probably not.

Tragg
07-21-2008, 10:31 AM
I don't think it's the last hurrah in the least; but overpaying for some pitcher the other team is trying to get rid of might change that. And if we do that for a middle reliever, it would be even worse. Our pitching was razor thin on paper before the season - there was a high probability we'd run short. You don't trade Garland, just to overpay for the same position at midyear. No way.

Teams evolve and change. Ramirez, Quinten, Swisher, Anderson, Richar, maybe Getz are good young players. Dye, AJ, will assuredly be back next year. We may try to move Konerko and Thome may or may not be back.

Danks, Floyd, MB and Javier are in their last hurrah? Please.
Linebrink is signed for FOUR years; Dotel for 2 or 3. Jenks, Thornton, Logan are young pitchers.

What is so special about this team that it can do major damage in the playoffs? It might, it might not.
In no way shape or form is this team on its last hurrah. If there is a prudent trade out there, fine. But giving away young talent to overpay for a pitcher is the wrong approach, imo.

palehozenychicty
07-21-2008, 10:35 AM
I don't think it's the last hurrah in the least; but overpaying for some pitcher the other team is trying to get rid of might change that. And if we do that for a middle reliever, it would be even worse. Our roster was razor thin on paper before the season - there was a high probability we'd run short. You don't trade Garland, just to overpay for the same position at midyear. No way.

Teams evolve and change. Ramirez, Quinten, Swisher, Anderson, Richar, maybe Getz are good young players. Dye, AJ, will assuredly be back next year. We may try to move Konerko and Thome may or may not be back.

Danks, Floyd, MB and Javier are in their last hurrah? Please.
Linebrink is signed for FOUR years; Dotel for 2 or 3. Jenks, Thornton, Logan are young pitchers.

What is so special about this team that it can do major damage in the playoffs? It might, it might not.
In no way shape or form is this team on its last hurrah. If there is a prudent trade out there, fine. But giving away young talent to overpay for a pitcher is the wrong approach, imo.


Our roster is pretty thin from an organizational standpoint. We're not as bad as the Mets, per se, in terms of depth, but at the moment, it's showing a few bumps and bruises.

oeo
07-21-2008, 10:58 AM
I know I'm stating the painfully obvious. Kinda like saying the sky is blue or the Big Mac is served at Mcdonalds. But, the White Sox are in desperate need of a starter and /or reliever.

I'm not panicking. This isn't a pants-pissing, woe is me, chicken little thread. But, IMHO if the White Sox are going to hang in there to hold off the rest of the AL Central and make the playoffs KW has to make a move or two by July 31st.

With Contreras' ups and downs and his trip to the DL and Linebrink's recent disappearance, (not to mention Javy's struggles.) The White Sox NEED some reinforcements. KW is a smart GM and he knows what he's doing. If he makes a move or two then cool and if he doesn't then I know he's probably looking at the bigger picture (next season and beyond.)

But, I think this team can do some damage in the playoffs. This is quite possibly the last hurrah for this team as currently constructed. Crede, Contreras, Thome, and possibly Konerko could be on the chopping block after the season is over. Who knows? Maybe more players will be gone after this year. Feel free to add any names to the list.

IMHO KW needs to go get some pitching or the wheels could be coming off this bus in a hurry. Hopefully he has the A's, Blue Jays, Astros, and Rockies on speed dial.

Let's see how Richard pitches this week.

We also still have relief options in the minors.

Thome25
07-21-2008, 11:07 AM
I don't think it's the last hurrah in the least; but overpaying for some pitcher the other team is trying to get rid of might change that. And if we do that for a middle reliever, it would be even worse. Our pitching was razor thin on paper before the season - there was a high probability we'd run short. You don't trade Garland, just to overpay for the same position at midyear. No way.

Teams evolve and change. Ramirez, Quinten, Swisher, Anderson, Richar, maybe Getz are good young players. Dye, AJ, will assuredly be back next year. We may try to move Konerko and Thome may or may not be back.

Danks, Floyd, MB and Javier are in their last hurrah? Please.
Linebrink is signed for FOUR years; Dotel for 2 or 3. Jenks, Thornton, Logan are young pitchers.

What is so special about this team that it can do major damage in the playoffs? It might, it might not.
In no way shape or form is this team on its last hurrah. If there is a prudent trade out there, fine. But giving away young talent to overpay for a pitcher is the wrong approach, imo.

when I said "last hurrah" I in no way meant to imply that this team won't win next year. Just in case that's what you took from it. But, there looks to be quite a bit of roster turnover from this year to next.

This is our last shot at the playoffs with several of the guys we currently have on the roster IMO.

Thome25
07-21-2008, 11:10 AM
Add The Orioles to the list of possible KW trade partners. It looks like they may be shopping Sherrill per ESPN.

UofCSoxFan
07-21-2008, 11:21 AM
Cabrera will likely be gone as well (although I don't think Paulie will, with his incredibly low trade value right now and huge contract).

Next year we likely will have a new SS, a new 2b (if Ramirez slides over) a new 3B and possibly a new DH along with a new starting pitcher. That is not good.

I think we need to win now or our next window will be in two or three years. I frankly don't see this team being all that great next year with a downgrade at DH, a combined downgrade at SS and 2B (cabrerra and alexei are better than alexei and getz/richar) and another young pitcher in the starting rotation.

"Overpay" is such an subjective term. Did we get fair value for Carlos Lee when we got a slap hitting leadoff guy and a middle reliever? No. In that sense we overpaid for Pods and Vizcainio. But we also don't win the World Series without them. If a part allows you to win the World Series, you do it....even if you could get a "better player" somewhere else that may not be better for your team.

TomBradley72
07-21-2008, 11:40 AM
What we're seeing right now with the pitching happens just about every season...usually between the All Star break and Labor Day...some tired arms (Linebrink), some dinged up by injuries (Jenks, Contreras), young pitchers getting their 2nd wind (Danks, Floyd). Our #1 risk to this season is our lack of organizationaly depth in the event of injury...I doubt we have the ammunition to trade our way out of it. If this is a rough patch in a marathon season, we'll be OK, if the walls start to fall down (Linebrink and Contreras don't bounce back, Danks or Floyd run out of gas)...we'll end up in the 2002/2003/2004/2006 bin.

The Immigrant
07-21-2008, 11:46 AM
Next year we likely will have a new SS, a new 2b (if Ramirez slides over) a new 3B and possibly a new DH along with a new starting pitcher. That is not good.

I'm kind of excited at the prospect of a Ramirez & Richar/Getz combo up the middle, Fields at 3B, Dye at DH, Swisher in RF, and an Anderson/Wise platoon in CF (more likely Anderson full time). Plus, either Broadway or Richard could pitch better than Contreras has the last 6 weeks. I don't think the future of this team is gloomy at all.

Thome25
07-21-2008, 12:00 PM
I'm kind of excited at the prospect of a Ramirez & Richar/Getz combo up the middle, Fields at 3B, Dye at DH, Swisher in RF, and an Anderson/Wise platoon in CF (more likely Anderson full time). Plus, either Broadway or Richard could pitch better than Contreras has the last 6 weeks. I don't think the future of this team is gloomy at all.


The White Sox will have some money to spend without Cabrera, Thome, Crede, and possibly Contreras on the books. I doubt we fill all of our holes with in-house candidates.

It's possible we fill our CF, 2B, or SP needs through free agency or trade.

oeo
07-21-2008, 12:13 PM
The White Sox will have some money to spend without Cabrera, Thome, Crede, and possibly Contreras on the books. I doubt we fill all of our holes with in-house candidates.

You can't assume that Thome will be off our hands. Unless he gets hurt (which is a definite possibility), he's going to be back next year.

Thome25
07-21-2008, 12:16 PM
You can't assume that Thome will be off our hands. Unless he gets hurt, he's going to be back next year.

I thought he had a team option for next year unless he gets an obscene amount of at-bats then the option automatically kicks in?

If that's the case then I doubt the White Sox pick up the option.

Per rotoworld: Next year is an option year.....not sure if it's a player or club option. I doubt he reaches the required AB for it to kick in and if it's a club option I'd be surprised if KW and the White Sox pick it up.

Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

Boondock Saint
07-21-2008, 12:33 PM
You can't assume that Thome will be off our hands. Unless he gets hurt (which is a definite possibility), he's going to be back next year.

I was thinking that if the Sox wanted him off the books badly enough next year, they could bring up Fields and have him DH against lefties, have PK or Dye DH for him once a week with Swisher moving to their spot, or both in order to keep his at bats down.

edit: Thome25, from what I remember, the number of AB's required is far from obscene.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2008, 12:33 PM
It's a vested option as I understand it meaning Thome has to reach a certain number of PA for it to kick in.

If it doesn't, the Sox can bring him back or buy him out and send him on his way for a certain amount of money.

Lip

oeo
07-21-2008, 12:47 PM
I thought he had a team option for next year unless he gets an obscene amount of at-bats then the option automatically kicks in?

If that's the case then I doubt the White Sox pick up the option.

Per rotoworld: Next year is an option year.....not sure if it's a player or club option. I doubt he reaches the required AB for it to kick in and if it's a club option I'd be surprised if KW and the White Sox pick it up.

Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

He needs only 206 plate appearances the rest of the year (1100 total needed in 2007 and 2008; 536 in 2007 + 358 in 2008 = 206 left) in order for that option to kick in. That should be done with ease unless he spends a good amount of time on the DL. Which, again, is very possible. I'm just saying, don't assume he won't be back next year because right now it's looking like he will be.

MisterB
07-21-2008, 01:49 PM
Next year we likely will have a new SS, a new 2b (if Ramirez slides over) a new 3B and possibly a new DH along with a new starting pitcher. That is not good.

So what? After the 2004 season we got a new catcher, 2B, SS, LF, RF, one starting pitcher and 2 relievers and improved by 16 games. After 2006 we made even less moves and went from 90 wins to 90 losses.

It ain't quantity, it's quality that's the difference.

russ99
07-21-2008, 01:56 PM
I really don't think this is a last shot for this team. Thome has 1-2 more years left and it remains to be seen whether or not they're with the Sox.

Konerko and Dye are a bit past their prime years, but are still solid players, even though one could get moved this offseason. Buehrle's also still fairly young and producing well. The core of this team still has plenty of high-producing years left. The additions of Quentin, Swisher and Ramirez have strengthened the team and started the process to go a bit younger.

That said, looking back 20 years - rarely are the Sox in the position they are now, first place in late July with a solid contending team. Looking back to previous trade deadlines, I hope Kenny is not swayed by 2005 and how things turned out by standing relatively pat, but rather look even at 2006 when the right deal at the deadline might have moved us into the playoffs.

The Sox have a chance to make an impact in October, and Kenny needs to take a hard look to see what he can do to shore up weaknesses. It's obvious to me that an extra starter (a star pitcher isn't necessary here, just a reliable innings-eater) and maybe even an extra reliever and a good hitting bench player could go a long way down the stretch.

While I know he doesn't take a lot of stock in recent developments with the starting staff, such as Danks and Floyd's bad outings and also Conteras' injury, it just illustrates how things could go down the stretch and points to a need for a little insurance.

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Add The Orioles to the list of possible KW trade partners. It looks like they may be shopping Sherrill per ESPN.


One can only hope they ask about Daniel Cabrera.:cool:

FarWestChicago
07-21-2008, 08:20 PM
I'm not panicking. This isn't a pants-pissing, woe is me, chicken little thread.How do you know this is true? :D:

UofCSoxFan
07-21-2008, 08:47 PM
So what? After the 2004 season we got a new catcher, 2B, SS, LF, RF, one starting pitcher and 2 relievers and improved by 16 games. After 2006 we made even less moves and went from 90 wins to 90 losses.

It ain't quantity, it's quality that's the difference.

Ater 2004 we lost some guys because we traded them for others. I really don't see many people on our roster that I'd want to trade right now or that we could trade (for example I'd trade Paulie but I don't see that happening for mutliple reasons). We also were able to get great value from signing AJ and Iguchi and Uribe. Obviously the GM that made those deals is still around so it could certainly happen again, but my point is that it usually is hard to replace that many positions for the better. It really is. Will I still be a fan next year? Sure. Can a lot happen via free agency next year, especially with some huge salaries coming off the bench? Of course. Could Thome, OC, or Crede stay next year? Sure.

A lot can happen. But a lot can also go downhill. That's why I say win now bc tomorrow is gauranteed to no one.

Nellie_Fox
07-22-2008, 02:10 AM
Start naming teams that don't need pitching, and you'll run out very quickly.

kittle42
07-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Start naming teams that don't need pitching, and you'll run out very quickly.

Texas. Didn't you see the level of AA pitching talent they have? :tongue:

Lip Man 1
07-22-2008, 01:21 PM
Kittle:

LOL! (Just ask the Sox...)

:D:

Lip

palehozenychicty
07-22-2008, 05:01 PM
I really don't think this is a last shot for this team. Thome has 1-2 more years left and it remains to be seen whether or not they're with the Sox.

Konerko and Dye are a bit past their prime years, but are still solid players, even though one could get moved this offseason. Buehrle's also still fairly young and producing well. The core of this team still has plenty of high-producing years left. The additions of Quentin, Swisher and Ramirez have strengthened the team and started the process to go a bit younger.

That said, looking back 20 years - rarely are the Sox in the position they are now, first place in late July with a solid contending team. Looking back to previous trade deadlines, I hope Kenny is not swayed by 2005 and how things turned out by standing relatively pat, but rather look even at 2006 when the right deal at the deadline might have moved us into the playoffs.

The Sox have a chance to make an impact in October, and Kenny needs to take a hard look to see what he can do to shore up weaknesses. It's obvious to me that an extra starter (a star pitcher isn't necessary here, just a reliable innings-eater) and maybe even an extra reliever and a good hitting bench player could go a long way down the stretch.

While I know he doesn't take a lot of stock in recent developments with the starting staff, such as Danks and Floyd's bad outings and also Conteras' injury, it just illustrates how things could go down the stretch and points to a need for a little insurance.

Thome has picked up the last couple of months, but I think the team will be better off if he moves on. I just feel that we need to get more athletic and versatile, and with Thome here, it makes that difficult.

AzureJazzMan
07-22-2008, 06:55 PM
Just a couple of moves would make a world of difference...

Pick up Duchscherer and Street from the A's for Fields, Logan, Poreda, and Getz

Send Uribe, Russell, Armstrong, and Contreras to Baltimore for Cabrera and Sherrill

Of course I realize that I am living in a fantasy here...But these changes are do-able would put us way over the top of our division.

Though I have a nagging feeling, that we are going to wind up (god forbid) with A.J. Burnett and Juan Pierre. I seriously had a dream that they did, and gave up way too much in the process.

2906
07-22-2008, 07:26 PM
Just a couple of moves would make a world of difference...

Pick up Duchscherer and Street from the A's for Fields, Logan, Poreda, and Getz

Send Uribe, Russell, Armstrong, and Contreras to Baltimore for Cabrera and Sherrill

Of course I realize that I am living in a fantasy here...But these changes are do-able would put us way over the top of our division.

Though I have a nagging feeling, that we are going to wind up (god forbid) with A.J. Burnett and Juan Pierre. I seriously had a dream that they did, and gave up way too much in the process.

Azure,

Those changes are not do-able sorry to say. Especially the Baltimore suggestion. Uribe has little to no value with his impending FA status and mediocre production. Cole Armstrong is a 25 year old organizational depth catcher who may top out as a backup someday. From the Baltimore side, both Cabrera and Sherrill have lots of worth and they're both under team control. Adam Russell on the White Sox side has potential but that's about it.

As for dealing with the A's, Billy Beane likes high OBP players or at the very least guys who don't strike out much. Neither description remotely fits Josh Fields. The other three may hold some interest for them but I believe they had at least one chance to take Poreda who was pitching in their back yard and they passed.

But you are right, players like Logan, Poreda, and possibly Josh Fields are guys other teams will target, particularly rebuilding teams. Not to trash on certain players but rebuilding teams aren't going to want free agents to-be (Uribe) or organizational depth players.

I do not see the White Sox trading anyone off their 25 man roster before 7/31. For the most part they believe in these players and will do whatever they can to get them on the right track (Logan as an example).

However, I do see them moving a marketable player from the minors for another arm, likely a bullpen arm. And I do agree with you that both Duke and Street are possibilities to be moved. Those guys are under team control though, and Oakland is 6 out of the wild card with a few injured guys coming back. But it's impossible to predict Beane.

2906
07-22-2008, 07:42 PM
One additional thought ...

Boone Logan has options left and if they felt they could upgrade on the left hand side of the bullpen, it's possible. Problem is, guys like Fuentes and Sherrill would cost a bunch of talent and I'm not sure anyone else out there is truly an upgrade over Logan.

TheVulture
07-23-2008, 01:34 AM
We also were able to get great value from signing AJ and Iguchi and Uribe.
Nearly as good a value as Ramirez, Quentin and Swisher.