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thomas35forever
07-20-2008, 04:16 PM
What didn't go wrong today other than the Twins losing too?

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2008, 04:16 PM
Look on the bright side. Konerko went 1-4 and raised his batting average.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
What didn't go wrong today other than the Twins losing too?

Dotel and Thornton sucked.

The only bright spot today was Bobby. This bullpen is going to have some real big problems...

Blueprint1
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
We lost to one of the worst teams in the league at home. I can't wait to hear about how were still in first place.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
Play of the game, Dye getting hurt.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
Btw, How the hell did we lose a series to the Royals?

sox1970
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Tough loss. Jeff Cox...I just don't get it. The play was right in front of him.

Foulke You
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
We just didn't pitch well today. Danks had a rare issue with his command and Thornton couldn't shut the door after the Swisher HR. Tough to lose 2 of 3 at home to KC.:(:

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Btw, How he hell did we lose a series to the Royals?
Pitching sucked yesterday and the pitching sucked today.

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
I wonder what AJ said to Olivo after their mini collision. He turned his head over his shoulder and said something. Maybe he felt Olivo put a little too much forearm into the greeting.

itsnotrequired
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Dotel and Thornton sucked.

The only bright spot today was Bobby. This bullpen is going to have some real big problems...

:rolleyes:

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
What didn't go wrong today other than the Twins losing too?
We even screwed up the uniforms (there isn't supposed to be a belt).

Everything (except maybe the offense) looked bad today. Danks looked like ****, Thornton coughed up the lead, and Cox made one of the dumbest descions I've ever seen a third base coach make. Just ****ing stupid. Really this loss SHOULD be chalked up to Cox.

thomas35forever
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
We just didn't pitch well today. Danks had a rare issue with his command and Thornton couldn't shut the door after the Swisher HR. Tough to lose 2 of 3 at home to KC.:(:
Tough losing five of the last seven overall.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Jose Guillen, Esteban German, and Mike Aviles totally owned us in this game.

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm concerned with our pitching staff as a whole.

The bullpen is taking a beating now because starters are not going late into the games anymore.

It seems only Buehrle can take a game past the 7th inning right now.

Madvora
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Well at least we took 1 out of 3 from a tough first place team like the Royals...... oh wait, we're the first place team and they're the team that's supposed to suck.

Foulke You
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Tough loss. Jeff Cox...I just don't get it. The play was right in front of him.
That was easily Cox's worst decision of the year. I wouldn't have even sent Alexei on that play. Guillen had the ball in his glove as AJ hit the bag at 3B.

LITTLE NELL
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
These guys are starting to worry me. It looks like the pitching is starting to unravel.

Rockabilly
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
how the **** can we lose 2 games to the Royals... IF we do't start winning soon we are going to not with the al central

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Hitting sucked yesterday and the pitching sucked today.

Fixed it for you.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
I wonder what AJ said to Olivo after their mini collision. He turned his head over his shoulder and said something. Maybe he felt Olivo put a little too much forearm into the greeting.
I can't fault Olivo. He has to assume, knowing AJ, he was coming and coming hard.

ondafarm
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Nice game management for an idiot Ozzie Guillen.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Fixed it for you.
9 runs yesterday I believe right?

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
We lost to one of the worst teams in the league at home. I can't wait to hear about how were still in first place.
We kee finding bad times to lose games...What the **** was Cox thinking? Jesus! That's the move that pisses me off the most!

ms620
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
We lost to one of the worst teams in the league at home. I can't wait to hear about how were still in first place.

You are right. We should all just give up on the season since we stink. I am too lazy to make that teal, but people liek you are so irritating. How many times this year has it looked like the Sox were about to cave. How many 6 game losing streaks, or 4 games vs toronto, 3 vs teh cubs. Every time they bounce back. The fact that they are still in first IS relevant. This is nto going to be easy, but losing 1 series at home to KC is not going to make or break this season. Games vs. the twins and tigers will. The sox will finish with a good record against these royals, regardless of the last 2 games.

MarySwiss
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Nice game management for an idiot Ozzie Guillen.

He did what he was supposed to do. He brought in a lefty to face a lefty. It's not his fault that Thornton didn't have it. You can argue that he should of pinch ran for Pierzynski, but I doubt Wise would of made it on that throw...

Noneck
07-20-2008, 04:21 PM
A loss is still only a loss but its a bad day when a starter is dl'ed, the clean up hitter is carried off the field and your setup man seems as tho he is only allowed to play the harp.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
9 runs yesterday I believe right?

2/3 of those runs came from mop up time. Had we hit like anything we could have yesterday, we would of had a much better chance...

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Nice game management for an idiot Ozzie Guillen.
How the **** is this Ozzie's fault? Was Ozzie coaching third today? No. Cox waving in AJ was a move your hero Razor Shines might have made though. Ozzie did nothing wrong today. He brought in a left who's been real good of late against a guy who struggles against lefties. That move backfired. But if any other manager in the league made it, you'd be fine with it.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
High point: Thome gets hit #2,000.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Nice game management for an idiot Ozzie Guillen.
Its Ozzie's fault Danks had no control. Its Ozzie's fault his best hitter gets hurt in the 4th, its Ozzie's fault Cox is a dumbass, it's Ozzie's fault his left handed set-up man let him down, its Ozzie's fault Linebrink is hurt and finally its Ozzie's fault Dotel drilled Jose Guillen.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!

Bases loaded with Thome up scares me though. There's always the possibility of the double play.

Brian26
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
That was easily Cox's worst decision of the year. I wouldn't have even sent Alexei on that play. Guillen had the ball in his glove as AJ hit the bag at 3B.

It wasn't his worst decision. Cox has sent guys like that all year, and he's been really lucky with some bad throws coming into the plate. Today he wasn't so lucky. Way too risky of a play with Guillen's arm in LF.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:23 PM
He did what he was supposed to do. He brought in a lefty to face a lefty. It's not his fault that Thornton didn't have it. You can argue that he should of pinch ran for Pierzynski, but I doubt Wise would of made it on that throw...
You must remember, in onda's world, it's ALWAYS Ozzie's fault. If we sweep in the world series again, onda will point out that a better manager could have won it in three.

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Is lefty/righty really necessary to get a crap hitter like Ross Gload? if you mess that up, you're back with a matchup you don't want anyway.
The tying and winning run get on base on hbp and walk - way too much of junk.
Big hit by BA....he's had a lot of them this year.

chisoxmike
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
The pitching as been pretty horrific the past few weeks. There is no reason to lose a series like this. The Rangers' series and the upcoming road trip is going to be pretty brutal if they keep pitching like this.

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!


I can't blame Ozzie nor Cox these days when the "best" pitching staff in baseball is getting ripped for 8 runs almost every night now. And taking a beating from KC is even more sad to me.

Pitching needs to get it together.


They had their rest and are still as bad as the last 2 weeks leading to the All Star Break.

Brian26
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!

I'll give it to the pitching staff that gave up eight runs to the Royals. Cox bad decision only cost us one run.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Bases loaded with Thome up scares me though. There's always the possibility of the double play.
Based loaded most likely means no shift.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Its Ozzie's fault Danks had no control. Its Ozzie's fault his best hitter gets hurt in the 4th, its Ozzie's fault Cox is a dumbass, it's Ozzie's fault his left handed set-up man let him down, its Ozzie's fault Linebrink is hurt and finally its Ozzie's fault Dotel drilled Jose Guillen.
Onda's hatred of Ozzie at times borders on pathological. It almost makes me wonder if he isn't Lamar Hoyt.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
The pitching as been pretty horrific the past few weeks. There is no reason to lose a series like this. The Rangers' series and the upcoming road trip is going to be pretty brutal if they keep pitching like this.

I'll take it as long as we get all the suckiness out there right now and play for real on the road trip.

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
High point: Thome gets hit #2,000.


High point for me is Dye not lost for the season.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Based loaded most likely means no shift.

Thome's shown he can hit into double plays any time, any where, with any kind of shift.

ondafarm
07-20-2008, 04:26 PM
He did what he was supposed to do. ...

Leaving Danks out there to get pasted is what he's supposed to do?

Soxfest
07-20-2008, 04:26 PM
KC blows and this is unacceptable!:angry:

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Masset starting Tuesday ...... fasten your seat belts folks.

thomas35forever
07-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Onda's hatred of Ozzie at times borders on pathological. It almost makes me wonder if he isn't Lamar Hoyt.
I direct your undivided attention to this:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87033

Brian26
07-20-2008, 04:27 PM
Onda's hatred of Ozzie at times borders on pathological. It almost makes me wonder if he isn't Lamar Hoyt.

Why would Hoyt have any reason to hate Ozzie? Just because they were involved in a trade?

BRDSR
07-20-2008, 04:27 PM
15 hits is a lot for a losing effort...this team has played three below average series in a row against average and below average teams. They need to step it up or they're going to see this division slip away quickly.

DrCrawdad
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
10 runners LOB today.
9 runners LOB Friday.

Where do the Sox rank in MLB with runners being LOB? They've got to be near the leaders (if that's what you call it), being among the worst with leaving runners on base.

Foulke You
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Masset starting Tuesday ...... fasten your seat belts folks.
Well, he couldn't do any worse than Contreras has done recently. Ozzie is probably looking to get 4 or 5 out of Masset and then get the ball to Russell. Still, with the Rangers offense, let's hope the Sox bring their bats that day.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Leaving Danks out there to get pasted is what he's supposed to do?

Danks got by in the 3rd with a 1-2-3 inning. Is Ozzie supposed to take him out in the fourth when he's showing that he's improving?

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Leaving Danks out there to get pasted is what he's supposed to do?
Sure Ozzie is guilty of having a little to much confidence and patience with his starters. I tell you what though it sure beats "quick trigger" Manuel. Just ask Jon Garland what its like pitching for a manager with confidence in you opposed to one without it.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Ozzie just called it an "ugly assed game". Can't argue with that.

chisoxmike
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
Also, how hard is it to hit a batter? What is it with our guys that half ass hitting someone? Just ****ing hit the guy when you're supposed to. I'm tired of seeing this team being soft.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Leaving Danks out there to get pasted is what he's supposed to do?
So you would have pulled him after two or three? Forcing us to go to our long relief guys, Massett and Russell who got hammered last night? Or do you bring in Carasco early which means he's more or less toast by the fifth and you then go to Massett and Russell?

ondafarm
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
You must remember, in onda's world, it's ALWAYS Ozzie's fault. If we sweep in the world series again, onda will point out that a better manager could have won it in three.

That's funny. Not very smart, but funny.

At the end of the first inning do you think anybody thought that Danks had it?

Since you were going to bring in a long relief guy, why not do it then? He eventually had to.

That I blame Ozzie for.

Sending AJ was Cox's mistake. The pitching matchups in the seventh weren't great but weren't bad. But if you don't allow six runs in early, the seventh isn't up by one run, more like two or three.

itsnotrequired
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Thome's shown he can hit into double plays any time, any where, with any kind of shift.

Thome has hit into 11 DPs this season. Only 3 involved men in scoring position.

:shrug:

sox1970
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Russell got sent down. Roster move tomorrow.

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Leaving Danks out there to get pasted is what he's supposed to do?

We had the lead well after Danks came out of the game, so that's not even an issue that you can argue.

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Masset starting Tuesday ...... fasten your seat belts folks.
Why did he pitch last night then?
I know people cringe and take offense at any criticism of Guillen, but Guillen's use of pitchers has been questionable in 3 of the last 4 games.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Danks got by in the 3rd with a 1-2-3 inning. Is Ozzie supposed to take him out in the fourth when he's showing that he's improving?
Yes! If he gives up one run he is clearly struggling! So you just trot out your bullpen! Nevermind they've looked crappy for the past two weeks and one of them has been hurting, you just use your bullpen!

But what if the bullpen sucks too?

Then Ozzie clearly went to the bullpen too early!

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Russell got sent down. Roster move tomorrow.
Where did this come from?

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Russell got sent down. Roster move tomorrow.

The Vulture was losing it anyhow...

I wonder if this is a spot for Josh Fields or Brad Eldred.

Or...maybe a trade?

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Russell got sent down. Roster move tomorrow.


where did you hear this?

sox1970
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Where did this come from?

Heard it at the end of Ozzie's press conference.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Why did he pitch last night then?
I know people cringe and take offense at any criticism of Guillen, but Guillen's use of pitchers has been questionable in 3 of the last 4 games.
Because we put Jose on the DL today. Is Ozzie supposed to predict the future as well?

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:32 PM
This loss is extremely depressing...

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:33 PM
We had the lead well after Danks came out of the game, so that's not even an issue that you can argue.
Of course he can!

With Russell getting sent down, I think we're going to see a move, either Broadway gets called up or something, or a trade before Tuesday and Masset's start.

Boondock Saint
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
Why did he pitch last night then?
I know people cringe and take offense at any criticism of Guillen, but Guillen's use of pitchers has been questionable in 3 of the last 4 games.

Relief pitchers not getting guys out is not on Ozzie. When Ozzie put in Ryan Bukvich against A-Rod with the bases loaded last year, that's the stuff you put on Ozzie.

Frankie5Angels
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
I want someone to ask Ozzie or KW, what the heck is going on with Linebrink??

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
The Vulture was losing it anyhow...

I wonder if this is a spot for Josh Fields or Brad Eldred.

Or...maybe a trade?
Starter for Tuesday.

ondafarm
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
I direct your undivided attention to this:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87033

A thread that has 221 posts is proof of insanity. Guess you'll be throwing the other 50 posters in that thread in with me.

I'll also point out, the White Sox haven't won anything since that thread appeared and suffered through a miserable season last year.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:35 PM
I want someone to ask Ozzie or KW, what the heck is going on with Linebrink??
I'm gonna guess tired arm.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:35 PM
I want someone to ask Ozzie or KW, what the heck is going on with Linebrink??
I was wondering that too. In the paper today he said he had a migraine and back stiffness, but I saw him warming up? Was he still achy?

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:35 PM
Starter for Tuesday.

I thought Masset was starting.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
A thread that has 221 posts is proof of insanity. Guess you'll be throwing the other 50 posters in that thread in with me.

I'll also point out, the White Sox haven't won anything since that thread appeared and suffered through a miserable season last year.
I could think of 28 other teams that haven't won anything since that thread.:D:

sox1970
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
Broadway is scheduled to pitch tonight. We'll see if he gets scratched.

Frankie5Angels
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm gonna guess tired arm.
They said before the game he was availabe today I thought I heard. Something strange going on with him.

Noneck
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!
Maybe he was thinking that Thome has a career BA of .167 vs. Mahay and then PK following him. He then thought that the ball thrown and hitting a pigeon had a better chance than Thome or Konerko getting home the run.

On a serious note< I don't know what he was thinking.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:37 PM
They said before the game he was availabe today I thought I heard. Something strange going on with him.
Oh then maybe woke up wrong 1 day and had a stiff back for a few days. Let me tell ya I've had a stiff one since friday, it sucks.

Frankie5Angels
07-20-2008, 04:37 PM
I was wondering that too. In the paper today he said he had a migraine and back stiffness, but I saw him warming up? Was he still achy?
I have a feeling he warmed up and didn't feel to good. Why else was he not brought into the 8th inning. This team has alot of holes suddenly.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Why would Hoyt have any reason to hate Ozzie? Just because they were involved in a trade?
Well, that trade began the down side of Lamar's career, even though Lamar played a large part in bringing about his own demise, I can't wonder if he secretly blames Ozzie for all of his issues?

Patrick134
07-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Twins lost, so no harm done. Pitching staffs go into slumps just like bats do. The Sox are fine.

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
I thought Masset was starting.

That's what I thought too. Ozzie even confirmed it in the post game conference. I figured if something was up, Ozzie would have said something like "We're not sure about Tuesday. We have a few different directions we can go" or something like that.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Maybe he was thinking that Thome has a career BA of .167 vs. Mahay and then PK following him. He then thought that the ball thrown and hitting a pigeon had a better chance than Thome or Konerko getting home the run.

On a serious note< I don't know what he was thinking.

I also don't know how Guillen got off such a great throw after getting his hands hurt.

TDog
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
With those uniforms, you should have expected the game to be ugly.

The bullpen lost the game today, just as the bullpen lost the game Saturday. In the ninth, Konerko might have missed a pitch to drive against Soria, but Swisher and Crede had no chance against him. Of course, sending Pierzynski in the eighth was ill-advised. I don't know if Cox expected the rain would slow the ball up or if he lost track of Guillen moving to left. Whatever. If the bases are loaded, Mahay still matches up against Thome, but Soria might come in to face Konerko if thome strikes out.

There isn't any problem with the offense. The problem is with the starting pitching. Floyd didn't go deep enough Saturday. Danks didn't pitch well and didn't go deep enough today.

The good news is that Jenks pitched well. Dye going down isn't good news, but it is good news that his knee was only bruised. I don't expect him to play Monday night. I expect him to miss a few games.

It's too bad Dye didn't get to hit with men on and two outs in the sixth. I really thought the Sox were going to win today. But the secret of having a great bullpen is having capable pitchers who don't have to pitch often because the starters go deep. That hasn't been happening for the Sox.

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Because we put Jose on the DL today. Is Ozzie supposed to predict the future as well?
Yea - it wasn't until this morning that they knew they had a problem with Jose. Sure.

Patrick134
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Well, that trade began the down side of Lamar's career, even though Lamar played a large part in bringing about his own demise, I can't wonder if he secretly blames Ozzie for all of his issues?


that'd be insane thinking.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
That's what I thought too. Ozzie even confirmed it in the post game conference. I figured if something was up, Ozzie would have said something like "We're not sure about Tuesday. We have a few different directions we can go" or something like that.

It's either a bullpen arm or a position player. Most likely not a starter then.

BainesHOF
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
Well, it looks like we're on our way to tanking in the second half like we usually do.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
Oh then maybe woke up wrong 1 day and had a stiff back for a few days. Let me tell ya I've had a stiff one since friday, it sucks.
Stiff backs are funny things because they can act up at any time. Yesterday I woke up and my back was in agony. And it was hurting until around two o'clock today when I went to stand up and POOF! It was gone! I've also thrown my back out just brushing my teeth, so I'd imagine he could be warming up in the bullpen and throw his back out and then tommorrow feel fine.

Patrick134
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
With those uniforms, you should have expected the game to be ugly.

The bullpen lost the game today, just as the bullpen lost the game Saturday. In the ninth, Konerko might have missed a pitch to drive against Soria, but Swisher and Crede had no chance against him. Of course, sending Pierzynski in the eighth was ill-advised. I don't know if Cox expected the rain would slow the ball up or if he lost track of Guillen moving to left. Whatever. If the bases are loaded, Mahay still matches up against Thome, but Soria might come in to face Konerko if thome strikes out.

There isn't any problem with the offense. The problem is with the starting pitching. Floyd didn't go deep enough Saturday. Danks didn't pitch well and didn't go deep enough today.

The good news is that Jenks pitched well. Dye going down isn't good news, but it is good news that his knee was only bruised. I don't expect him to play Monday night. I expect him to miss a few games.

It's too bad Dye didn't get to hit with men on and two outs in the sixth. I really thought the Sox were going to win today. But the secret of having a great bullpen is having capable pitchers who don't have to pitch often because the starters go deep. That hasn't been happening for the Sox.


bullpen didnt cost the sox the game saturday. a horrible outing to be sure, but the bats lost that one.

sox1970
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
Well, it looks like we're on our way to tanking in the second half like we usually do.

:rolleyes:

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:39 PM
I'm gonna blame this on the fact that I don't think any of the pitchers wanted to wear those big, thick, heavy ass jerseys on a hot day like today.

(half teal).

MarySwiss
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!

I can't blame Ozzie nor Cox these days when the "best" pitching staff in baseball is getting ripped for 8 runs almost every night now. And taking a beating from KC is even more sad to me.

Pitching needs to get it together.
They had their rest and are still as bad as the last 2 weeks leading to the All Star Break.

I'll give it to the pitching staff that gave up eight runs to the Royals. Cox bad decision only cost us one run.

I'd agree, were it not for the fact that we had first and second and only one out at the time. I believe in momentum. This was a classic momentum killer.

Cox's bad decision might have only cost one run, but IMO, it was huge because we don't know what would have happened had it not taken place.

However, giving up eight runs to the Royals is not the stuff that championship teams are made of. And I think we can all agree on that point.

Noneck
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
I also don't know how Guillen got off such a great throw after getting his hands hurt.


Good point, I forgot about that. Maybe thats what Cox was thinking.

Frankie5Angels
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Well, it looks like we're on our way to tanking in the second half like we usually do.
That's what I am afraid of. The 2nd halves of 05,06, and 07 were all terrible.

getonbckthr
07-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Good point, I forgot about that.
He got hit on his glove hamd not throwing hand.

roadrunner
07-20-2008, 04:41 PM
today's game felt like a kick to the cox

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:42 PM
The good news is that our division blows, so we can be a less than exemplary team and make the playoffs.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:43 PM
Good point, I forgot about that.

Okay people, consider the situation of that play...

Guillen hadn't played in the first two games in the series. He has a back problem. He had gotten hit on the hand in the top of the inning.

Forget about where the ball was; wouldn't you have sent A.J. knowing those things?

I'm not saying that Cox was right, I'm simply saying that it isn't as bad as some of you make it out to be.

thomas35forever
07-20-2008, 04:43 PM
The good news is that our division blows, so we can be a less than exemplary team and make the playoffs.
Since when were we in the NL West?

Jerko
07-20-2008, 04:45 PM
Btw, How the hell did we lose a series to the Royals?

We lost because we walked Ross ****ing Gload twice and can't get the 9 hitter out after him. When we mix and match in the 8th we blow, we need a healthy Linebrink in the 8th.

Note: I did not read the thread so I am sorry if I repeated something.

1989
07-20-2008, 04:46 PM
What the hell Danks?? 6 runs in 4 innings against the royals?

You

http://www.distro-review.com/images/foresight/2/fail.jpg

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Since when were we in the NL West?
I said blows, not the worst division in the history of professional sports.

Seriouosly, 88 wins could win our division.

Tragg
07-20-2008, 04:47 PM
We lost because we walked Ross ****ing Gload twice and can't get the 9 hitter out after him. When we mix and match in the 8th we blow, we need a healthy Linebrink in the 8th.

I don't understand the need to mix and match with Ross Gload as the hitter.

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:48 PM
I also don't know how Guillen got off such a great throw after getting his hands hurt.

'Cuz it wasn't his throwing hand.

DrCrawdad
07-20-2008, 04:50 PM
I'd agree, were it not for the fact that we had first and second and only one out at the time. I believe in momentum. This was a classic momentum killer.

Cox's bad decision might have only cost one run, but IMO, it was huge because we don't know what would have happened had it not taken place.

However, giving up eight runs to the Royals is not the stuff that championship teams are made of. And I think we can all agree on that point.

The Sox have been giving up a TON of runs lately - an average of 7 runs per game over the last 9 games.

All you can do is judge the results, and he was thrown out by so far a margin that it was clearly a bad call. I hate to be a pessimist, but who knows if the Sox would have scored anything with bases loaded anyway?

The Sox are terrible at stranding runners on base.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:50 PM
'Cuz it wasn't his throwing hand.

He also has some back problems, apparently.

btrain929
07-20-2008, 04:51 PM
I don't understand the need to mix and match with Ross Gload as the hitter.

It might not be 100% necessary, but if the move IS made, there's no way you can argue with it.

turners56
07-20-2008, 04:52 PM
It might not be 100% necessary, but if the move IS made, there's no way you can argue with it.

Considering hitters hit around .180 off of Thornton, it wasn't a bad idea at all. Some people just love second guessing.

All in all, Ross Gload, Mike Aviles, and Esteban freaking German killed us today. When that happens, you know something is just wrong.

Esteban German = Jason Tyner.
Mike Aviles = Nick Punto.

Are the Royals the Pirahna JRs?

Jerko
07-20-2008, 04:53 PM
I don't understand the need to mix and match with Ross Gload as the hitter.

I admit, I said to my buddies "do we bring in Thornton here", and then I said "no Gload got on twice already against a lefty" (Danks)...... I think we out-thought ourselves there. Under normal circumstances Linebrink mows em down in the 8th, Bobby in the 9th but today wasn't a normal day I guess.

wealz07
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
That's funny. Not very smart, but funny.

At the end of the first inning do you think anybody thought that Danks had it?

Since you were going to bring in a long relief guy, why not do it then? He eventually had to.

That I blame Ozzie for.


Yes, you want to burn through your bullpen the game before you start a 3-game series with the best offensive team in baseball especially when you don't know who is going to pitch the second game of that series.

Ugh.

Frontman
07-20-2008, 05:00 PM
Bright spots of today:

Harold's statue.

Thome's 2000th.

Konerko actually getting a hit.

Beyond that?

Um, how about the Twins losing? Wait, already mentioned.

Nice to see the throwbacks?

Ok, I got nothing. At least the Twins lost and the Sox are still in 1st for now.

TornLabrum
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
Yes, you want to burn through your bullpen the game before you start a 3-game series with the best offensive team in baseball especially when you don't know who is going to pitch the second game of that series.

Ugh.

Look at it this way. If Ozzie had done that, then onda would be all over him for burning out his bullpen. I think onda is really Joseph Heller in disguise.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
After having a little time to mentally digest this now, I think this can really be best summed up at this: we are a maddeningly streak team. And right now we are in a "bad" streak. These bad streaks usually last no longer than two weeks, it's been about that now (if we count prior to the All Star Game). So hopefully once we take on Texas we begin another "good" streak one that lasts for about a month, say. And that will carry us into the series against the Twins where we sweep them again and then give ourselves some breathing room.

TomBradley72
07-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Cox's decision was completely baffling..especially with only 1 out.

But why do you throw German breaking stuff when you bring mid-90's heat. Plus your defense is NOT playing him to pull (Crede was way off the line). If you have Matt Thornton's stuff...don't let a guy like German beat you on your breaking ball.

SoxGirl4Life
07-20-2008, 05:37 PM
After having a little time to mentally digest this now, I think this can really be best summed up at this: we are a maddeningly streak team. And right now we are in a "bad" streak. These bad streaks usually last no longer than two weeks, it's been about that now (if we count prior to the All Star Game). So hopefully once we take on Texas we begin another "good" streak one that lasts for about a month, say. And that will carry us into the series against the Twins where we sweep them again and then give ourselves some breathing room.


Good attitude. I, too, needed some time to chill out. But ya gotta put things in perspective.

I'm giving you a :thumbsup:

SoxGirl4Life
07-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Cox's decision was completely baffling..especially with only 1 out.

But why do you throw German breaking stuff when you bring mid-90's heat. Plus your defense is NOT playing him to pull (Crede was way off the line). If you have Matt Thornton's stuff...don't let a guy like German beat you on your breaking ball.


Today it was (not necessarily in this order)

Danks
Bullpen
Situational hitting
Third base coach.

An all around team loss, if you ask me.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
It all comes down to pitching. If the Sox can pitch like they did the first half, on average, they will be fine. If they pitch like they have the last three series, they're in big, big trouble.

The pitchers need to turn it around starting tomorrow. Javy was supposed to be the ace of the staff going into this year. He has to step up and show some leadership and pitch a great game against Texas, which has been struggling on the road vs. the Twins. He needs to keep them struggling.

SoxGirl4Life
07-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Bright spots of today:

Harold's statue.

Thome's 2000th.

Konerko actually getting a hit.

Beyond that?

Um, how about the Twins losing? Wait, already mentioned.

Nice to see the throwbacks?

Ok, I got nothing. At least the Twins lost and the Sox are still in 1st for now.


And we didn't commit any errors.

SOXSINCE'70
07-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Cox's decision was completely baffling..especially with only 1 out.

But why do you throw German breaking stuff when you bring mid-90's heat. Plus your defense is NOT playing him to pull (Crede was way off the line). If you have Matt Thornton's stuff...don't let a guy like German beat you on your breaking ball.




:hawk

"Dadgumit,you're right,Tom Bradley".

whitesoxwilkes
07-20-2008, 05:58 PM
About the only good that came out of today's game?

If you caught the top of the 9th right after Jenks came on, the Tv camera cuts to a huge ****ing dork in aviator sunglasses sitting there with his wife and kid.

That was me.

popilius
07-20-2008, 06:12 PM
There was such a good feel at the park today because of the Baines ceremony, throwback jerseys, Thome's 2,000th hit, and Crede's and Swisher's big homers. It was such a tough loss because too many things went wrong in the end.

This was the quietest I've heard the fans leaving the game in a long, long time. C'mon, guys, let's play some good baseball against Texas!

:gulp:

Lip Man 1
07-20-2008, 06:14 PM
This and that:

Very, VERY bad performance this weekend.

I'm sorry there is absolutely no excuse to lose two games at home to the last place Royals.

The pitching overall has gone in the tank the last few weeks and someone better figure out why in a hurry.

In the last nine games the Sox have allowed 65 runs an average of 7.2 per game.

You're not going to win anything with those numbers.

After a 2-0 start to this series with Kansas City and Texas the Sox have gone 2-5. That's flat out bad.

And the Royals getting two runs with two out in the 8th inning, with the Sox four outs away from a win is rubbing salt in the wound.

Frankie:

Actually you are a tad off. The Sox had a worse final 81 games as far as wins and winning percentage as compared to the first 81 games in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

In 2007 they had the exact same number of wins and win percentage in both 81 game half seasons.

Tragg:

Ozzie mixes and matches because Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox do it. My attitude is you're a pitcher right? Then get the hitters out...period. Regardless of what side of the plate they hit from. Why burn through a bullpen if you don't half to?

But Ozzie feels otherwise.

Lip

sox1970
07-20-2008, 06:19 PM
About the only good that came out of today's game?

If you caught the top of the 9th right after Jenks came on, the Tv camera cuts to a huge ****ing dork in aviator sunglasses sitting there with his wife and kid.

That was me.

Snazzy visor.

Vernam
07-20-2008, 06:24 PM
At the end of the first inning do you think anybody thought that Danks had it?

Since you were going to bring in a long relief guy, why not do it then? He eventually had to.

AND . . .I'll also point out, the White Sox haven't won anything since that thread appeared and suffered through a miserable season last year.:bs:And they are in first place now in spite of Ozzie. C'mon, blaming him for not yanking Danks before (or after, for that matter) he gave up four runs in the first is completely indefensible, and as someone who played ball, you should know that. It's true that Danks "didn't have it," but did you ever see a starting pitcher pulled because he might be about to get lit up in the first? Barring a playoff or injury situation, it just doesn't happen -- I don't care how badly he's throwing. Instead, it's completely standard practice to let a starter struggle through the first. Of all the MLB managers, I doubt there's one who would've yanked Danks, especially because he's been close to dominant this year. And besides, since you've criticized Ozzie in the past for allegedly burning out his bullpen, you're even contradicting yourself here.

Back to reality . . . Cox's decision was clearly a bad one. Many other times he's sent guys when he probably shouldn't have, and they've often scored due to a bad throw. Not so lucky this time. I hope he stays aggressive, but he didn't pick his spot well here with one out in the 8th inning and the Sox down by a run.

Nice to see Jenks throw so well. I'd be way more pessimistic about the immediate future if he'd struggled. With the uncertainty about our rotation and bullpen, we need him to be Big Bad Bobby, and today he was.

Thank god JD's X-ray was negative.

Losing two out of three to KC sucks, but it isn't tragic. If we keep leaving guys on base at this rate against Texas, we could stumble into a key road trip.

Oh, and I'm not superstitious, but please: No more gimmick uniforms for a year or three.

Vernam

Railsplitter
07-20-2008, 06:29 PM
1983 unis and a flashback to the Dibber. :tongue:

Lip Man 1
07-20-2008, 06:32 PM
AP story quotes Ozzie as saying he doesn't expect Dye to play on Monday. That he got hit pretty good and that "hopefully" he'll only be out a few days.

Story also said Ozzie threw a towel in disgust after Dye got hit and quotes him as being upset with the umpires. Ozzie said the Royals "hit six guys this week." But they only issue a warning after Carrasco threw at the K.C. player.

He wants an explanation for this.

Lip

cws05champ
07-20-2008, 06:57 PM
I havn't read through this whole thing, but it was just flat out mis-management of the bulllpen by Ozzie. Dotel had hit one guy but got two outs in the inning and Ozzie decides to play L/R matchups? Then after Thornton walks Gload why does he not bring on Linebrink or if still not available another righty if he's going to play those matchups?

I know...players have to perform, but it was mis managed by Ozzie.

Tragg
07-20-2008, 07:03 PM
It might not be 100% necessary, but if the move IS made, there's no way you can argue with it.
I don't know what you mean really. But if you're going to do it when facing a lousy hitter like Gload, why stop?

JB98
07-20-2008, 07:28 PM
Unfortunately, I attended the last two games in person. I'm very, very disappointed in our pitching staff. The inability to get out Mike "The Mick" Aviles and Esteban "Babe" German is just baffling to me.

Next time we play Kansas City, someone better pay for what Ramirez did to JD. He plunked him in essentially the same spot twice in two days. Last night, he did it with two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning, a real chicken-**** maneuver, if you ask me. Basically, we have a journeyman pitcher who is lucky to be in ****ing baseball throwing at our All-Star right fielder. I can't stand for that bull****. While JD was lying in pain at the plate, I was just seething with anger. I haven't been that angry in a long time.

But the moral of the story is we lost because we pitched like ****. We've been pitching like **** for the last nine or 10 games or so. It isn't just the starters or just the bullpen. It's been everyone. The pitching staff needs to step up. Lack of pitching has been the main reason for five losses in the last seven games.

ondafarm
07-20-2008, 07:59 PM
:bs:And they are in first place now in spite of Ozzie. C'mon, blaming him for not yanking Danks before (or after, for that matter) he gave up four runs in the first is completely indefensible, and as someone who played ball, you should know that. It's true that Danks "didn't have it," but did you ever see a starting pitcher pulled because he might be about to get lit up in the first? Barring a playoff or injury situation, it just doesn't happen -- I don't care how badly he's throwing. Instead, it's completely standard practice to let a starter struggle through the first. Of all the MLB managers, I doubt there's one who would've yanked Danks, especially because he's been close to dominant this year. And besides, since you've criticized Ozzie in the past for allegedly burning out his bullpen, you're even contradicting yourself here. . . .

Curious how you got to yank him during the first inning when my quote clearly says "at the end of the first inning". Second, I have not criticized Ozzie for bringing in a relief pitcher early. I have criticized his dependency on lefty-righty matchups. But that wasn't the key mistake of his in this game. I agree that no manager would have yanked him during the first, but I know plenty who would have turned the ball over to a long-relief guy for the second or third or certainly prevented the sixth run in the fourth. That cost the Sox the game. It changed the nature of the game and made it a slugfest. A four run deficit you can come back from, but asking a team to rise up and rally three separate times (the Sox did twice) is not winning baseball.

whitesoxwilkes
07-20-2008, 08:13 PM
Snazzy visor.

It was a giveaway a few years back. Has a Hooters logo on the back.

Here's a few pictures from the game today. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilk/sets/72157606284738629/)

kevingrt
07-20-2008, 09:36 PM
These games suck. I'm sick of losing. Lets go win tomorrow.

Vernam
07-20-2008, 09:53 PM
Curious how you got to yank him during the first inning when my quote clearly says "at the end of the first inning". Second, I have not criticized Ozzie for bringing in a relief pitcher early. I have criticized his dependency on lefty-righty matchups. But that wasn't the key mistake of his in this game. I agree that no manager would have yanked him during the first, but I know plenty who would have turned the ball over to a long-relief guy for the second or third or certainly prevented the sixth run in the fourth. That cost the Sox the game. It changed the nature of the game and made it a slugfest. A four run deficit you can come back from, but asking a team to rise up and rally three separate times (the Sox did twice) is not winning baseball.I was giving you the benefit of doubt. Saying you'd have pulled him after he got out of the first makes even less sense! So who would you have had come out to pitch the top of the second, anyway? :gah:Giving up four in the first hurt us way more than did the one each by Danks in the second and fourth. I just fail to see your logic. It was the first where the damage got done.

I maintain there's not an MLB manager who'd have pulled that kid before the second inning. If there is, I don't want him anywhere around the Sox dugout.

Vernam

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-20-2008, 09:58 PM
So without the pitching...where is there a bright spot in our squad?

Im just amazed watching our bullpen just die like they have been....

Dye going down is the absolute last thing we needed...the uniforms were awesome and congrats to Jim on #2,000...but geez guys...you can't expect to win **** when you play like this....

TomBradley72
07-20-2008, 10:05 PM
I can't believe anyone would blame Ozzie for this loss. Thornton didn't do his job. You have to challenge a guy like Gload...the walk was inexcusable. Letting German beat you on a breaking ball down and in (when the defense is not playing him to pull) even more so. With Linebrink banged up...we needed Thornton to deliver the way he has most of the season (the league is hitting <.200 against him). It was the right move, Thornton didn't do the job.

Dotel or Thornton against Gload? I'll take Thornton every time. Thornton or Masset/Russell against German? Again...I'd take Thornton.

TomBradley72
07-20-2008, 10:13 PM
The bigger concern is our overall pitching performance...for the month of July, our pitching is 11th in the American League with a 5.09 team ERA. Down there with the Royals, Rangers and Orioles. Other than Buehrle...just about every other pitcher is having their worst month of the season. Jenks looking great today was a real good sign. We need Linebrink to rebound the same way. Dotel, Masset, Logan...need to stay in the 6th/7th inning territory for us to bounce back.

kitekrazy
07-20-2008, 11:03 PM
I'll give this one to Cox, by and large. What was he thinking, if anything? Sheesh!

How many times have they had 2 on and no outs and come up empty handed. That's the only thing I could think of.

kitekrazy
07-20-2008, 11:10 PM
The good news is that our division blows, so we can be a less than exemplary team and make the playoffs.

This would be more appropriate coming from a Twins fan.

kitekrazy
07-20-2008, 11:41 PM
After having a little time to mentally digest this now, I think this can really be best summed up at this: we are a maddeningly streak team. And right now we are in a "bad" streak. These bad streaks usually last no longer than two weeks, it's been about that now (if we count prior to the All Star Game). So hopefully once we take on Texas we begin another "good" streak one that lasts for about a month, say. And that will carry us into the series against the Twins where we sweep them again and then give ourselves some breathing room.


I'm seeing dark clouds reminiscent of the Manuel era. A lot of bad baseball and when it comes to a showdown with the Twins, the Twins display how poor the Sox are in fundamentals (like keeping runners close to the bag) and put the Sox away by August.

The Twins are very dominant at home. Today was an opportunity squanderd. I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox are flirting with 3rd after the Twins' series.

I've come to this conclusion because the Sox have been fortunate to have some young players cover up for some choking veterans. Danks, Floyd and Quentin are the difference so far from being a medicre team.

JB98
07-20-2008, 11:58 PM
I'm seeing dark clouds reminiscent of the Manuel era. A lot of bad baseball and when it comes to a showdown with the Twins, the Twins display how poor the Sox are in fundamentals (like keeping runners close to the bag) and put the Sox away by August.

The Twins are very dominant at home. Today was an opportunity squanderd. I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox are flirting with 3rd after the Twins' series.

I've come to this conclusion because the Sox have been fortunate to have some young players cover up for some choking veterans. Danks, Floyd and Quentin are the difference so far from being a medicre team.

Paging Javier Vazquez.

That's the guy we need to get his head out of his ass. Everyone gripes about Konerko and Contreras. Vazquez's poor performance has escaped scrutiny in many circles.

murnau5
07-21-2008, 12:27 AM
Lot of rumbling in my section (uppers) today about Crede's effort on German's double in the 8th. Was this valid? Understand he wasn't positioned very well...

TDog
07-21-2008, 12:27 AM
Well, that trade began the down side of Lamar's career, even though Lamar played a large part in bringing about his own demise, I can't wonder if he secretly blames Ozzie for all of his issues?

Moving close to the Mexican border probably didn't do LaMarr Hoyt any good. He had a down season for ht Sox in 1984, but he pitched well for the Padres in 1985. He made his only All-Star Game appearance that year, starting, pitching three shutout innings (they used to do that) and winning for the National League.

JB98
07-21-2008, 12:38 AM
Lot of rumbling in my section (uppers) today about Crede's effort on German's double in the 8th. Was this valid? Understand he wasn't positioned very well...

No, not valid. He couldn't have reached that ball, unless he had go-go gadget arms. Crede was not guarding the line. I heard some complaints that we should have used a "no doubles" defense in that situation. The real error was Thornton throwing a slider, getting beat on his second-best pitch and pitching German the opposite way that we were defending him.

itsnotrequired
07-21-2008, 07:43 AM
10 runners LOB today.
9 runners LOB Friday.

Where do the Sox rank in MLB with runners being LOB? They've got to be near the leaders (if that's what you call it), being among the worst with leaving runners on base.

The Sox have stranded 669 runners this season. Place in the AL? THIRD BEST. Only the Royals and Angels have stranded fewer. Boston leads the league with 759 LOB.

I have to admit, I didn't think the Sox stranded so few when compared to their peers. Combine that with the Sox having the third best AVE with RISP and the mind becomes boggled.

oeo
07-21-2008, 08:05 AM
No, not valid. He couldn't have reached that ball, unless he had go-go gadget arms. Crede was not guarding the line. I heard some complaints that we should have used a "no doubles" defense in that situation. The real error was Thornton throwing a slider, getting beat on his second-best pitch and pitching German the opposite way that we were defending him.

The real error was walking Gload. German should have never been up there.

Ugh...I hate losing like that. A sweep of the Rangers would be awfully nice to save this homestand. They need to kick it up a notch before heading to Detroit and Minnesota.

ondafarm
07-21-2008, 08:08 AM
No, not valid. He couldn't have reached that ball, unless he had go-go gadget arms. Crede was not guarding the line. I heard some complaints that we should have used a "no doubles" defense in that situation. The real error was Thornton throwing a slider, getting beat on his second-best pitch and pitching German the opposite way that we were defending him.

Just to elaborate on this.

At a meeting before every series, you always talk about how to defend and pitch every opposition team batter. Obviously, Crede was positioned for this. Whoever called and threw the slider made a mistake with that pitch and the Sox paid for it.

Sometimes, late teams will play no doubles and that would have helped in that situation, but Crede doesn't call that, it's a decision made in the dugout. Should have been done? In hindsight, sure. But it's a decision made and not Crede's fault.

Now, in defense of AJ and Thornton, occasionally, you throw something not in the plan because the guy won't be looking for it. In this case, it failed miserably.

DrCrawdad
07-21-2008, 08:10 AM
The Sox have stranded 669 runners this season. Place in the AL? THIRD BEST. Only the Royals and Angels have stranded fewer. Boston leads the league with 759 LOB.

I have to admit, I didn't think the Sox stranded so few when compared to their peers. Combine that with the Sox having the third best AVE with RISP and the mind becomes boggled.

Clearly my impression was wrong.

I sure hope the Sox offense can keep rolling and that the Sox pitchers start doing better, much better than they've been doing lately.

oeo
07-21-2008, 08:18 AM
Clearly my impression was wrong.

I sure hope the Sox offense can keep rolling and that the Sox pitchers start doing better, much better than they've been doing lately.

Really, it's only been a small portion of the pitching staff...mostly in the bullpen, and then Javy and Contreras have really struggled.

Danks was due for a bad start, he hasn't had one all year; and Javy should be alright. The bullpen just needs to get back to being aggressive. That's why they were so successful in the first half. They threw strikes, and got outs (fewest walks in the AL). You can't walk guys out of the bullpen...that was the biggest problem with the bullpen last year.

For whatever reason, they've gotten away from throwing strikes, and it's hurting them. Hopefully Coop gets this straightened out before it becomes a major problem.

All in all, I think the pitching staff will be fine. They're going through a bit of a slump right now, but that's about it.

ondafarm
07-21-2008, 08:23 AM
All in all, I think the pitching staff will be fine. They're going through a bit of a slump right now, but that's about it.

On this, my concerns are that Jose may be done and that Danks and Floyd may have reached their limit of effectiveness, they are young guys and their inning totals this year may be catching up to them. I hope I'm wrong on both (all three) counts.

oeo
07-21-2008, 08:26 AM
On this, my concerns are that Jose may be done and that Danks and Floyd may have reached their limit of effectiveness, they are young guys and their inning totals this year may be catching up to them. I hope I'm wrong on both (all three) counts.

Because they had one bad start each? Floyd already bounced back from his rough outing before the break.

Floyd threw 176 innings last year and was most effective in September, so he shouldn't be slowing down quite yet (if he does).

TomBradley72
07-21-2008, 10:32 AM
Lot of rumbling in my section (uppers) today about Crede's effort on German's double in the 8th. Was this valid? Understand he wasn't positioned very well...

He definitely wasn't positioned for German to pull a ball right down the line. He was WAY off the 3rd baseline...another reason a down and in breaking ball was a horrible decision. Take your chances with German catching up to mid-90's heat. If he does..tip your cap.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2008, 11:24 AM
Crawdad:

Those numbers aren't exactly telling the entire story. The Sox are also dead last in the A.L. in BA with runners in scoring position and two out.

Lip

Jurr
07-21-2008, 11:37 AM
Crawdad:

Those numbers aren't exactly telling the entire story. The Sox are also dead last in the A.L. in BA with runners in scoring position and two out.

Lip
Hopefully yesterday was a preview of future 2 out success. I was very surprised (and overjoyed) that they stepped up with 2 outs yesterday.

I still feel that this season is going to make me go premature gray. One week you think this squad can compete for the whole shootin' match, and the next you feel that they are destined to play out the string from the first week in September on.

ArkanSox
07-21-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't have the patience or the stomach to wade through this complete thread, but I'm sure there's all ready enough blame being passed around, so I'm not going to add to it. It's really too bad that we made so many mistakes in such a very winable ballgame. Despite other concerns, Dye's injury was the most worrisome thing that I saw happen in this game. Let's all hope that he's AOK. Time to pound the Rangers.

whitesox901
07-21-2008, 03:19 PM
that was ugly, but damn did they look good in those jerseys!

TDog
07-21-2008, 04:32 PM
Crawdad:

Those numbers aren't exactly telling the entire story. The Sox are also dead last in the A.L. in BA with runners in scoring position and two out.

Lip

But that only tells you how the Sox got where they are. It doesn't mean for the rest of the season the Sox will have the worst American League batting average for two-out, runners-in-scoring-position situations.

In Sunday's loss, for example, the Sox hit .500, three-for-six with two walks, one hit batsman and five runs batted in with two outs and runners in scoring position. On base percentage with two-outs and runners in scoring position doesn't mean as much as batting average, but Sunday it was .667. The Sox were four-for-eight overall with runners in scoring position with seven runs batted in. One of those runner-in-scoring position hits was by Brian Anderson who didn't get an RBI, of course. Both Sox home runs, accounting for five of the Sox seven runs, came with runners in scoring position. The White Sox have won a lot of games this year where they have done a lot worse.

If you hit .333 with two outs and runners in scoring position you fail twice as often as you succeed. The numbers can be deceptive, though. Scoring a runner from third on a ground out with less than two out may or may not be doing the job depending on the situation, but it isn't a hit. The Royals did that once yesterday to take the lead. Sacrifice flies, which sometimes hurt the offense but sometimes win games, don't count as at bats, of course. I think hitters should be charged with times at bat for run-scoring fly outs. As it is, sacrifice flies lower hitters' on-base percentage but don't affect their batting average. But that is off topic.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2008, 06:34 PM
TDog:

True... but what those numbers also say is that compared to the rest of the league for the games that have been played (almost 100) now the Sox have been doing worse then the other teams.

It doesn't predict the future, just gives you an idea of what generally has been happening.

Lip