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View Full Version : Liriano is not a happy camper


oeo
07-17-2008, 03:07 PM
7-0 with a 2.73 ERA in his last 9 starts, but hasn't been promoted. He thinks they're trying to limit his service time, and is pursuing a grievance.

Keep pissing your players off, Twinkies.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8352458/Agent:-Twins-phenom-Liriano-frustrated-over-status?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

kittle42
07-17-2008, 03:42 PM
You just can't knock a Slowey out of the rotation these days.

PeteWard
07-17-2008, 09:55 PM
7-0 with a 2.73 ERA in his last 9 starts, but hasn't been promoted. He thinks they're trying to limit his service time, and is pursuing a grievance.

Keep pissing your players off, Twinkies.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8352458/Agent:-Twins-phenom-Liriano-frustrated-over-status?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498


He will be up very soon I think.

Boondock Saint
07-17-2008, 10:01 PM
He will be up very soon I think.

I agree. There's no way they're keeping him down without good reason, considering how close they are to us right now.

drewcifer
07-17-2008, 10:37 PM
I agree. There's no way they're keeping him down without good reason, considering how close they are to us right now.

I don't.

If they're clicking with what they got, they don't OWE him anything. His contract is what it is. The "Super-Two" is an entitlement based on performance when the qualifcations are met and the player performs WHEN ASKED TO. But no player is ENTITLED to that opportunity.

The circumstances are what they are - If the Twins feel good about where they are, that's it. They are not obligated to do anything to bring him up if they don't want to get that 86 or whatever it is. They've paid for his surgery, rehab, and service time. *Edit - In fact, he can be unhappy all he wants to be. He can't do anything about it.

WhiteSoxOnly
07-17-2008, 10:42 PM
I don't.

If they're clicking with what they got, they don't OWE him anything. His contract is what it is. The "Super-Two" is an entitlement based on performance when the qualifcations are met and the player performs WHEN ASKED TO. But no player is ENTITLED to that opportunity.

The circumstances are what they are - If the Twins feel good about where they are, that's it. They are not obligated to do anything to bring him up if they don't want to to get that 86 or whatever it is. They've paid for his surgery, rehab, and service time.

Even still...if we were twin fans,we would be all over this.We would want
Livan F.Hernandez dropped immediately and Liriano brought up.But since
we're not twin fans...hey guys leave him in the minors :wink:

Boondock Saint
07-17-2008, 10:46 PM
I don't.

If they're clicking with what they got, they don't OWE him anything. His contract is what it is. The "Super-Two" is an entitlement based on performance when the qualifcations are met and the player performs WHEN ASKED TO. But no player is ENTITLED to that opportunity.

The circumstances are what they are - If the Twins feel good about where they are, that's it. They are not obligated to do anything to bring him up if they don't want to get that 86 or whatever it is. They've paid for his surgery, rehab, and service time. *Edit - In fact, he can be unhappy all he wants to be. He can't do anything about it.

I'm not saying that they owe him anything. What I'm saying is that it's a close race, and that anyone with a halfway decent mind for baseball knows that a healthy, effective Liriano makes any team instantly better. The Twins aren't keeping him down because the guys they've got are doing well. You can always move your #5 starter to the bullpen or something. If the Twins are going to keep him down longer, it's because they want to be 100% sure he's ready to pitch, nothing else.

But that's my opinion. I could be totally wrong. I'm looking at it as a baseball fan who sees winning as goal #1.

drewcifer
07-17-2008, 10:53 PM
I'm not saying that they owe him anything. What I'm saying is that it's a close race, and that anyone with a halfway decent mind for baseball knows that a healthy, effective Liriano makes any team instantly better. The Twins aren't keeping him down because the guys they've got are doing well. You can always move your #5 starter to the bullpen or something. If the Twins are going to keep him down longer, it's because they want to be 100% sure he's ready to pitch, nothing else.

But that's my opinion. I could be totally wrong. I'm looking at it as a baseball fan who sees winning as goal #1.

Livan Hernandez sucks, but he racked up more Ws than anyone else in that rotation and I mean, the fastest.

I see him (Liriano) as a huge injury risk and if you DO give him the opportunity to qualify, you'd be on the hook for more huge $ besides what you paid to fix him (and that's if you actually DID).

Plus, I hate the goddamn Twins. Either way, screw him if he's upset.


:)

kjhanson
07-18-2008, 01:01 PM
If Liriano were to pitch the Twins into the playoffs, wouldn't they stand to make more money than they would lose if he gets more service time and is eligible for arbitration?

He's just as likely to get hurt throwing 6 innings in the minor leagues as he is throwing 6 in the big leagues.

In all, this just seems to be an idiotic move by the Twins organization. I'd move Slowey to the bullpen and say bye-bye Brian Bass.

munchman33
07-18-2008, 02:32 PM
If Liriano were to pitch the Twins into the playoffs, wouldn't they stand to make more money than they would lose if he gets more service time and is eligible for arbitration?

That depends on whether or not they win enough games to get homefield in that first round. Selling out one game in a three game playoff sweep loss is a lot less profit than selling out two. :cool:

kjhanson
07-18-2008, 03:33 PM
That depends on whether or not they win enough games to get homefield in that first round. Selling out one game in a three game playoff sweep loss is a lot less profit than selling out two. :cool:

Well the only way they're getting into the playoffs this year is through the Wild Card! And that doesn't come with any home field privileges.

Bobby Jenks
07-18-2008, 10:34 PM
From what i heard his velocity is/was lacking. I guessing they are limiting how many sliders he can throw.

ma-gaga
07-19-2008, 05:43 PM
I'd move Slowey to the bullpen and say bye-bye Brian Bass.


Livan is garbage, and the more they let him pitch, the worse their team is going to be. He'll be the first to go, 9 "wins" be damned.

FedEx227
07-19-2008, 07:35 PM
Livan is garbage, and the more they let him pitch, the worse their team is going to be. He'll be the first to go, 9 "wins" be damned.

No but remember he's a veteran stopgap who will eat innings, my favorite way to describe the worthless paying of a crappy old pitcher when other younger, cheaper options are readily available.

Nellie_Fox
07-20-2008, 12:32 AM
Being in Minnesota, I'm getting daily reports of the whining from Liriano's agent. It's all about getting the service time necessary to be arbitration eligible.

Look, the owners have almost no leverage left. This is one area where they still have some control; sending players to the minors when they still have options and not enough service time. Liriano got a whole year of major league service time credit last year while on the DL. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the idea that the Twins should be required to bring him up because his agent says so.

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2008, 02:09 AM
When they do call up Liriano, it will be as if the Twins made a trade for an "ACE" type starter.


I hope Javy turns it on this 2nd half because he will truly be our "ACE" counter to such a move by the Twins.

whitesox901
07-20-2008, 03:27 AM
Livan is garbage, and the more they let him pitch, the worse their team is going to be. He'll be the first to go, 9 "wins" be damned.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj278/SByanks/baseball/ph_115817.jpg
"What Did I ever do to you?" :tongue:

ma-gaga
07-20-2008, 10:34 AM
"What Did I ever do to you?" :tongue:

Well, Livan got his 10th win yesterday. ... That pretty much guarantees him another 5 more starts. [grumble grumble]

He's the definition of "playing with house money". I guess you ride it out while you can, but you HAVE TO KNOW when to get up from the table while you are up.

munchman33
07-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Livan is garbage, and the more they let him pitch, the worse their team is going to be. He'll be the first to go, 9 "wins" be damned.

He sure pitched like crap against that Texas lineup last night.

Rockin Robin
07-20-2008, 11:10 AM
Livan Hernandez sucks, but he racked up more Ws than anyone else in that rotation and I mean, the fastest.


Yet another example of W's being the most overrated state ever.

munchman33
07-20-2008, 11:24 AM
Yet another example of W's being the most overrated state ever.

I disagree in this case. Livan just knows what it takes to win.

FedEx227
07-20-2008, 11:45 AM
I disagree in this case. Livan just knows what it takes to win.

What? Getting amazing (6.56 runs/game) run support?

The man has a 5.29 ERA/1.58 WHIP. Those are AWFUL.

munchman33
07-20-2008, 11:58 AM
What? Getting amazing (6.56 runs/game) run support?

The man has a 5.29 ERA/1.58 WHIP. Those are AWFUL.

He pitches well in his wins. I know that's probably obvious, but it's not like he give up seven runs and wins. He's up and down, and when he's up, he's good enough to win. He's been up a lot this year.

Urban Legend
07-22-2008, 12:34 AM
The Twins Francisco Liriano is 7-0 with a 2.73 ERA with Rochestor in his last nine starts.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/39057-francisco-liriano-not-enough-room-on-the-minnesota-twins

Do the Twins have the best minds in baseball or what? Terry Ryan (former Twins GM) wasn't a great business guy, but he sure knew talent. And I think the Twins park is next to impsossible to win in because they build their team for their park so well. I'm not giving up hope, but man, at this rate, we'll be desperately hoping for the wild card berth come September.

Nellie_Fox
07-22-2008, 12:54 AM
I've posted links to Mankato Free Press sports columnist Ed Thoma before. He's a very astute baseball guy.

Today, he did a column discussing the pros and cons of bringing up Liriano now. Give it a look (http://www.mankato-freepress.com/sportscolumnists/local_story_203010435.html?keyword=topstory).

Craig Grebeck
07-22-2008, 08:21 AM
Good thing Bill Smith is a complete nightmare of a GM.

oeo
07-22-2008, 09:06 AM
He pitches well in his wins. I know that's probably obvious, but it's not like he give up seven runs and wins. He's up and down, and when he's up, he's good enough to win. He's been up a lot this year.

Do you enjoy talking out of your ass?

munchman33
07-22-2008, 09:20 AM
Do you enjoy talking out of your ass?

Look at his performances in his wins.

Tell me, which would you prefer...

A guy that gives up 5 runs every outing...or a guy that gives up 1 run in half his outings and six runs in the other half. That first guy isn't going to win many games. That second guy is going to win enough games to help his team.

El Duque had a bad era for us in 2005. But he pitched really well in a lot of games, and won quite a few for us.

You act like pitching is easy to find. There's a place for guys like Livan that can win games.

Do you enjoy disagreeing with me for the hell of it, or do you want to make a case that what I say isn't true?

voodoochile
07-22-2008, 09:40 AM
Look at his performances in his wins.

Tell me, which would you prefer...

A guy that gives up 5 runs every outing...or a guy that gives up 1 run in half his outings and six runs in the other half. That first guy isn't going to win many games. That second guy is going to win enough games to help his team.

Not a very good analogy. To keep the numbers balanced, it would be 1 and 9 not 1 and 6 - this way they both average 5 runs given up per game. Or you could drop the guy giving up 5 to 4 (still over the other guys average of 3.5 bit at least more credible).

In either situation you are probably looking at a .500 pitcher depending on how many innings they throw and how good the team's offense is.

If a guy is giving you a steady 6 innings and 5 runs allowed per start compared to a guy who goes 9 innings and yields 1 run one start and yields 9 runs in 3 innings the next, (again innings balance) then you might prefer the first guy because he's not going to crush your bullpen every second start and many teams will put up 5+ runs on a regular basis - especially in the AL.

munchman33
07-22-2008, 12:29 PM
Not a very good analogy. To keep the numbers balanced, it would be 1 and 9 not 1 and 6 - this way they both average 5 runs given up per game. Or you could drop the guy giving up 5 to 4 (still over the other guys average of 3.5 bit at least more credible).

In either situation you are probably looking at a .500 pitcher depending on how many innings they throw and how good the team's offense is.

If a guy is giving you a steady 6 innings and 5 runs allowed per start compared to a guy who goes 9 innings and yields 1 run one start and yields 9 runs in 3 innings the next, (again innings balance) then you might prefer the first guy because he's not going to crush your bullpen every second start and many teams will put up 5+ runs on a regular basis - especially in the AL.


Yeah, a little wrong in the math there.

Hernandez has been huge for them though, despite his ERA. All things considered, yes, he's pitched like a .500 pitcher. But he's their fifth best starter.

I'd take him over Contreras right now...

Vestigio
07-22-2008, 05:02 PM
Rather than start a new thread, I'll post this here (eventhough its a couple days old) since it pertains to the subject at hand...

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9935898?source=most_viewed

(Read the last paragraph of the article)

lukeman89
07-22-2008, 05:21 PM
Rather than start a new thread, I'll post this here (eventhough its a couple days old) since it pertains to the subject at hand...

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9935898?source=most_viewed

(Read the last paragraph of the article)


hahahahaha