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View Full Version : Last time Sox and Cubs in 1st at ASG?


downstairs
07-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Does anyone know the last time both Chicago teams were in 1st at the ASG break?

The Critic
07-15-2008, 12:07 PM
1977.
Both teams ended the season WAAAAAAAY out of first.

Sox ended up 90-72, 12 games behind KC in 3rd.
Cubs ended up 20 games out of first in 4th place.

WhiteSox5187
07-15-2008, 01:12 PM
1977.
Both teams ended the season WAAAAAAAY out of first.

Sox ended up 90-72, 12 games behind KC in 3rd.
Cubs ended up 20 games out of first in 4th place.
But KC went on a tear that year and were just so much better than the Sox in every aspect. The '77 Sox were still a good team and hung around until mid-August I believe. The Cubs on the other hand folded pretty quick after the ASB.

In 2003 however, both teams were in first place in late September until...well...let's not think about 2003, shall we?

TornLabrum
07-15-2008, 02:10 PM
But KC went on a tear that year and were just so much better than the Sox in every aspect. The '77 Sox were still a good team and hung around until mid-August I believe. The Cubs on the other hand folded pretty quick after the ASB.

In 2003 however, both teams were in first place in late September until...well...let's not think about 2003, shall we?

Take a look at the ERAs of the '77 Sox pitching staff, and you'll see why they finished third.

TDog
07-15-2008, 03:08 PM
But KC went on a tear that year and were just so much better than the Sox in every aspect. The '77 Sox were still a good team and hung around until mid-August I believe. The Cubs on the other hand folded pretty quick after the ASB.

In 2003 however, both teams were in first place in late September until...well...let's not think about 2003, shall we?

At the 1977 All-Star break the Sox were 54-35. The Cubs were 54-36. Each team led its division by 2.5 games.

The Sox finished in third place in the American League West with a record of 90-72 -- 12 games behind the Royals (2.5 back at the break), who went on a tear, and four games behind the Rangers (8 games behind the Sox at the break). It wasn't the Royals going on a tear that defeated the Sox division hopes that season. It was a pitching staff that could only produce three shutouts being unable to support an offense that was shutout only twice (when it seemed the hitters were too tired to do it anymore in September).

The Cubs finished in fourth place at 81-81, losing a doubleheader on the last day of the season to fall to .500. They finished 20 games behind the Phillies (2.5 back at the break), 15 games behind the Pirates (5.5 back at the break) and 2 games behind the Cardinals (8.5 back at the break).

The Sox finished July with a doubleheader split against the Royals. After the first game win, they were65 ahead of both Kansas City. The day ended with the Sox leading both the Royals and Twins by 5.5 games and the Rangers by 7.5 games. At the close of play Aug. 12, the Sox were a half game behind the Twins, 1 game ahead of the Rangers and 1.5 games ahead of the Royals.

I have no idea what happened to the Cubs in 1977 because my attention was focused on the White Sox. But the Sox were 18 over .500 at the break and 18 over at season's end. They were 24 games over at the end of July, so they played 6 under for August and September. The failure of 1977 wasn't a matter of the Royals getting hot, just as the Cubs' 1969 failure (falling from 77-45 after Kenny Holtzman's Aug. 19 no-hitter against the Braves to 92-70 -- 15-25 in their last 40 games, winning only 8 of 25 games in September) was about the Mets getting hot.

People have such fond memories of the 1977 White Sox, and I'm among them. But I have fond memories of 1970 and just about ever Sox season where I had the opportunity to attend games. With 1977, people are remembering April, May, June and July. August and September were brutal. In fact, 1976 was brutal, and 1978 would be brutal.

Even under today's rules (but with 1977 scheduling), neither Chicago team would have come close to qualifying for the postseason in 1977. The Sox would have been 7 games out of the wild card because two Eastern Division teams won 97 games while finishing behind the Yankees. There is no guarantee that either Chicago team will make the postseason this year. I like the Sox chances, though, because of their pitching.

LITTLE NELL
07-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Take a look at the ERAs of the '77 Sox pitching staff, and you'll see why they finished third.
Our defense was horrible also, but that was one of the greatest summers in the old ballpark.

WhiteSox5187
07-15-2008, 03:53 PM
Take a look at the ERAs of the '77 Sox pitching staff, and you'll see why they finished third.
Oh certainly they weren't as good as the Royals nor were they a great team, but they were a fairly good team. I don't know, maybe my dad's love of that team (that was ten years before my time) blinds me of that fact. I though if we had the three divisional system we have now that Sox team would have made the playoffs.

DumpJerry
07-15-2008, 04:04 PM
Our defense was horrible also, but that was one of the greatest summers in the old ballpark.
It was a great time to be alive!

asindc
07-15-2008, 04:34 PM
1977 was the most fun I've had attending Sox games (I only attending one in 2005). Sitting in the upper deck in right field during doubleheader Sundays was an unforgettable experience.

TornLabrum
07-15-2008, 06:13 PM
Our defense was horrible also, but that was one of the greatest summers in the old ballpark.

Oh certainly they weren't as good as the Royals nor were they a great team, but they were a fairly good team. I don't know, maybe my dad's love of that team (that was ten years before my time) blinds me of that fact. I though if we had the three divisional system we have now that Sox team would have made the playoffs.

It was a great time to be alive!

Oh, I loved the hitmen, too. But when they folded, the reasons were obvious. I've often used the analogy that a great team is like a three-legged milking stool where the legs are pitching, hitting, and defense. Many of the best Sox teams have been like a two-legged stool. The Hitmen were like a one-legged stool.

But boy, they could tear the cover off the ball....

tlebar318
07-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Our defense was horrible also, but that was one of the greatest summers in the old ballpark.

For sure one of my fondest memories was the 1977 team...All-time. We weren't expected to do anything that year.

TDog
07-20-2008, 01:04 PM
For sure one of my fondest memories was the 1977 team...All-time. We weren't expected to do anything that year.

And if you were out of the country for much of the baseball season and picked up the season in mid-August, you would have come to the conclusion they didn't.

RKMeibalane
07-20-2008, 01:31 PM
But KC went on a tear that year and were just so much better than the Sox in every aspect. The '77 Sox were still a good team and hung around until mid-August I believe. The Cubs on the other hand folded pretty quick after the ASB.

In 2003 however, both teams were in first place in late September until...well...let's not think about 2003, shall we?

:jerry

"Anyone who disagrees with me just doesn't understand baseball."