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ondafarm
07-14-2008, 05:36 PM
What grade do you give the team as a whole at the All-Star break? Not what grade do you give Thome or Dye, or Ozzie of Kenny Williams, but what grade do you give the 54-40 first place Chicago White Sox. Are they being all you can be? Are they meeting your expectations? Are they exceeding your expectations?

ondafarm
07-14-2008, 05:39 PM
I for one give the White Sox a solid B+, possibly an A-. This is not the perfect baseball team and several components are not performing like they should. On the other hand, two All-Stars and a few others who deserve it IMHO.

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 05:42 PM
I would give the Sox a solid B for the first half.. I'm happy to be in first place but think we could have a bigger lead on MN

asindc
07-14-2008, 05:46 PM
I would give the Sox a solid B for the first half.. I'm happy to be in first place but think we could have a bigger lead on MN

I did some numbers crunching in the "State of the Sox at the Break" thread. The numbers would seem to support your view.

Law11
07-14-2008, 05:50 PM
Considering where I thought they would be this year after last season I give these guys an A. Yes they have holes to fix and arent perfect but Im excited to think where we could be in October.

Do they deserve an A? Who knows.. its like the annual self appraisal you get at work you give yourself the highest grade for your year end bonus etc.. but you never know anyone who actually gets it.

chisoxmike
07-14-2008, 05:52 PM
A nice B. If they studied a bit more, they could get an A if they really wanted too.

ondafarm
07-14-2008, 06:07 PM
There are portions or guys that I would give A's to.

Jenks A-
Danks, Floyd A
TCQ A+
Ramirez A+
Dye A
Cabrera A

There are other I would not give an A to however.

This team is about meeting my preseason expectations.

JB98
07-14-2008, 06:15 PM
I give them an 'A.'

The club has exceeded my expectations by a large margin.

WhiteSoxJunkie
07-14-2008, 06:51 PM
As far as expectations and compared to last year, A. Overall, B.

siugrad25
07-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I would love to just say that I would give them an 'A', but realistically I think of them more in the high 'B' range for the reasons that there are still some flaws with this team (but what team doesn't). But like other posters have mentioned, who would've expected this team to be sitting on top of the AL Central heading into the All-Star Break? They deserve a lot of praise this year (more than they're getting that's for sure).

jsg-07
07-14-2008, 07:44 PM
I have to say, if I am grading on a curve based on what my expectations were going into the season, they get an A+. However, now that they have proven last year was the fluke I say overall they get a B.

The one thing that kills me with these guys is I just dont know what to expect. There are times I watch and think no one can beat them and times I watch and can't believe we are in first place. Basically I can think of a ton of games we should have won and that we should be the best team in baseball and at times I am just happy to be where we are because we won some games we played pretty poorly in.

Either way, long season and at least we have something to look forward to in the second half. Obviously after 2005 we all expect the all or nothing attitude, but after the joke that was 2007, it is nice to know we can enjoy the second half with a chance to improve and even if we play similar to the way we played in the first half, we have a chance to go to the playoffs. Last year at this time, I could not wait for football to start. Man that was depressing.

thomas35forever
07-14-2008, 07:50 PM
If they'd won a few more games, I'd say A. I can only say they've done respectable so far. A lot of baseball left. Plenty of time to correct that.

whitem0nkey
07-14-2008, 07:51 PM
based on my expectations and A+

but on the season so far B.

we have seen them play real well and we have seen some sub par play at time. but we seem to have all the players we need, sure a move could not hurt. but if the guys we have play to there capabilities we should be in real good shape.

russ99
07-14-2008, 07:52 PM
I gave them an A but I'd prefer to give an A-

The minus being Konerko and Contreras. Hopefully those guys get it going the second half after a nice break to clear the head and start over.

Either that or Kenny gets us a speedy CF who can hit and another starter at the deadline so we don't have to rely on them so much.

asindc
07-14-2008, 08:29 PM
Alright, who let Timberwolf back in here to give the team a D?

thomas35forever
07-14-2008, 08:40 PM
Alright, who let Timberwolf back in here to give the team a D?
Can't be him. A 'D' would be giving us too much credit.

Madvora
07-14-2008, 08:41 PM
There are portions or guys that I would give A's to.

Jenks A-
Danks, Floyd A
TCQ A+
Ramirez A+
Dye A
Cabrera A

There are other I would not give an A to however.

This team is about meeting my preseason expectations.
The good thing is that the new additions to the team are performing extremely well. With young hitters like Alexei and TCQ, maybe we can start moving this team into a new direction for the future. Enough of this HR or nothing attitude. We have guys who can legitimately hit now, so let's build a team like that. Eventually all of the older players will be traded off or retire.

FarWestChicago
07-14-2008, 09:19 PM
Alright, who let Timberwolf back in here to give the team a D?No, the C and D are just a couple of the usual Clouds.

Dan Mega
07-14-2008, 09:19 PM
B from me. Exceeding my expectations for sure.

doublem23
07-14-2008, 09:21 PM
They are 2 1/2 games off the pace of MLB's best record.

Anything less than an A is ridiculous.

Jerome
07-14-2008, 09:25 PM
I give them an 'A.'

The club has exceeded my expectations by a large margin.

I was not expecting first place, I was not expecting one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. I was super pumped for the season because I figured they'd be competitive all year long, but I was not expecting first place all year long.

Hitmen77
07-14-2008, 09:43 PM
Alright, who let Timberwolf back in here to give the team a D?

too bad this is not a "public" poll (meaning we can see who voted for what grade).

A. Cavatica
07-14-2008, 10:16 PM
How can it be anything but an A? I thought this team was going to finish well under .500. They've had some problems, but far fewer than I expected, and from unexpected sources. There's still lots of room for improvement from the core of the team -- Konerko, Thome, Buehrle, Vazquez -- but almost all the gambles have paid off.

I thought Crede's back and contract status dictated that he be replaced with Fields. Well, Crede's been the healthier of the two, had some nice stretches with the bat, and has committed a ton of errors. Sounds like what I expected from Fields!

I thought Uribe was going to be an albatross. But thanks to Ramirez' breakout year, Uribe hasn't gotten enough playing time to kill us. And Juan's taken his demotion well.

I thought Hall was washed up, but he's hit well for a backup catcher, and he's allowed AJ to get his rest. (I still think we need more depth here.)

I thought Contreras was washed up, but he gave us a few months of quality pitching and helped Ramirez with his transition. Even though his trend is scary, he was a big plus for the first half.

I thought Floyd would win all of two games before being shipped out. He's been the complete opposite of the pitcher I expected.

I didn't think Masset belonged on the team, but he's been really dependable.

I thought MacDougal would be terrible, and he was. But this year, we don't need to turn to Aardsma, Sisco, Day, or Bukvich.

I thought Ozzie would have another bad year managing, and he's had his moments, but he hasn't hurt the team the way he did in 2006.

I liked the way KW remade the team, but things have worked out better than I hoped. Quentin, Linebrink, and Ramirez have been brilliant and Cabrera, Dotel, & Swisher have been decent.

Dye & Pierzynski have rebounded from bad years. Danks has been sensational, and the pitching staff has been great top to bottom.

If the second half is as good as the first, we've got an excellent chance of getting back to the Series.

ondafarm
07-14-2008, 10:16 PM
. . . Exceeding my expectations for sure.

Now, this really surprises me. With the amount of talent on the team I'm really surprised most people's expectation were not higher. I had a running argument with the Baseball Savant (just in case) (http://baseballsavant.blogspot.com/) over how good the Sox would be. He had the Tigers and Indians picked ahead of the Sox but had them as the only reasons the Sox wouldn't be more than competitive. I told him that neither of those teams worried me, they are both fatally flawed and that if both of them tanked, the White Sox would be the team to beat. Although he disagreed with the fatal flaws I id'd, he agreed with the statement.

If a fairly neutral pundit, who is no fan of the Sox agrees, I'm amazed more Sox fans weren't expecting good things.

Look at it this way.

Untested components of the Sox before this season started.

1) Ramirez. - he did show great baseball instincts in ST. Could he adapt? He was a cheap gamble.

2) Danks and Floyd - both #1 picks by other organizations.

3) TCQ - another #1 pick.

4) Cabrera - reigning GG. I don't call that untested.

5) Swisher - several years with Oakland, I don't call him untested.

6) Hall - a veteran back-up backstop.

7) Dye - yeah right

8) Thome, PK

9) Buehrle, Vazquez - solid veterans

10) Contreras - still a question mark

11) Dotel, Linebrink - veterans gotten decent not phenomenal work from both

12) Logan, Thornton, Masset

13) Jenks.

14) Uribe - a question still

15) AJ

16) Crede

I see two still open questions. Two guys who've had slow first halfs but are performing (Thome and Swish) One gamble that's paid off. A bunch of guys performing as expected and 4 #1s now performing at their expected level.

Sorry. Surprised? No.

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2008, 11:11 PM
I expected that the Sox would win about 88-90 games and would contend for the division title. So they have marginally exceeded my expectations.

Therefore, as a team, they deserve a B. (If they had simply met my expectations, they would earn a C.)

A grades (I'll dispense with the +/-) are for those teams that really have no flaws: The 2005 Sox were a team that really did not have any flaws; their only flaws occurred when Pods got hurt. Furthermore, the 2005 Sox greatly exceeded my expectations.

The 2008 team has several flaws that keep it from earning an A.

Pitching: While Floyd and Danks generally have been great, Buehrle has had some real clunkers, due in some measure to some terrible defensive miscues. Javy started strong but has fizzled. Same with Contreras.

Defense: While generally good, there have been some costly errors and defensive "failures" (i.e. failure to turn a double play on a routine grounder, some of Crede's terrible throws, a few of Paulie's miscues, occasional bone-headedness by Cabrera, botched run-downs, etc.).

Hitting: The offense lacks a bona-fide leadoff hitter, is simply too slow (especially when Paulie is in the lineup), is too reliant on the home run to score runs, and is too "feast or famine."

So, here are the "areas of opportunity for improvement:"

Top of the order: Either acquire a leadoff hitter (I don't know where he'd play) or move Alexei up to the #2 hole behind Cabrera to get more speed and versatility ahead of (and more fastballs thrown to) the middle of the order thumpers: OC, Alexei, TCQ, JD, JT, PK, AJ, Swish, Crede.

Rotation: Either Contreras or Vazquez need to step it up, or KW needs to make a trade or "catch lightning in a bottle" with Broadway, Haeger or another young arm.

Defense: Just play better defense. Continue to do the exceptional (like Alexei), make the routine plays, and turn those double plays.

WSox597
07-15-2008, 07:20 AM
I had to pick 'A' for most of the same reasons as above. I didn't figure the Sox to be in first place at the break, to be honest.

I'm glad to be wrong. If the power hitters that are struggling get back to normal, and the pitching holds up, look out baseball.

There are some problems to fix, every team has them, but all in all I'm happy with the moves made in the off-season. Floyd has been outstanding even though his last start was brutal.

Danks has pitched way better than his record. Contreras has been scary lately, but maybe he'll rebound.

I'm positive for the outcome of the season.

ChiTownTrojan
07-15-2008, 08:38 AM
I would give the Sox a solid B for the first half.. I'm happy to be in first place but think we could have a bigger lead on MN
Them not having a bigger lead on MIN has more to do with the Twins playing out of their minds then it has to do with anything the Sox have done wrong. I think the Twins will come back to earth a little in the second half. Detroit is just getting going though.

BTW, I gave the team an A for exceeding everyone's expectations.

ChiTownTrojan
07-15-2008, 08:47 AM
I see two still open questions. Two guys who've had slow first halfs but are performing (Thome and Swish) One gamble that's paid off. A bunch of guys performing as expected and 4 #1s now performing at their expected level.

Sorry. Surprised? No.
I also had high hopes going into the season, because it's true they've got a lot of talent. But you listed exactly all the reasons that expectations weren't very high going into the season. You point out 16 "question marks" going into the season, which cover just about every player on the team (did you miss anyone?). With so much uncertainty, it's pretty amazing that almost all of those 16 have worked out in our favor so far.

ondafarm
07-15-2008, 08:53 AM
I also had high hopes going into the season, because it's true they've got a lot of talent. But you listed exactly all the reasons that expectations weren't very high going into the season. You point out 16 "question marks" going into the season, which cover just about every player on the team (did you miss anyone?). With so much uncertainty, it's pretty amazing that almost all of those 16 have worked out in our favor so far.

That wasn't a list of all the question marks, it was a list of all the players, grouped a bit.

Things that have surprised me:

1) how fast Ramirez has adapted.
2) Contreras
3) how bad Uribe has been
4) that Swisher hasn't objected to playing CF
5) TCQ had more upside than I thought, but not amazingly more

ChiTownTrojan
07-15-2008, 08:57 AM
You haven't been surprised at all by just how good Danks and Floyd have been? How well the bullpen has come together after last year's fiasco? TCQ leading the league in HRs for much of the first half? I also had high hopes for all of these things, but they've all worked out better than I expected.

ChiTownTrojan
07-15-2008, 09:00 AM
That wasn't a list of all the question marks, it was a list of all the players, grouped a bit.

Things that have surprised me:

1) how fast Ramirez has adapted.
2) Contreras
3) how bad Uribe has been
4) that Swisher hasn't objected to playing CF
5) TCQ had more upside than I thought, but not amazingly more
By the way, your Contreras point: are you surprised that he has been so bad lately, or that he was so good for the first two months? Because I think it's been a little of both.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-15-2008, 10:35 AM
B+ - but like a HS senior, it all depends on the 2nd half of the year.

Jollyroger2
07-15-2008, 11:04 AM
I'd give them a low B. First place is nice, but I don't want them to get super high marks just because most "experts" picked them to finish well below Detroit and Cleveland.

They're in first though, so that should give them at least an automatic B. But I would be a lot happier if they had a bigger lead on the Twins. I'm not going to assume for a minute the Twins will fade away. They get us at home seven times this season and with their home track record and our road woes, I can easily see us dropping five of those seven. That's why they needed to build more of a lead. The Sox have been so woefully inconsistent, it's hard for me to give them more than a B. For example sweeping the Twins four straight was fantastic, but then they go and drop five of six to Detroit and Colorado.

And the pitching is starting to slide too. Since the Cleveland series, (13 games) the Sox have allowed 5 or more runs in 8 of those games.

The schedule after the break has some promise though. KC and Tex at home. (4-2 should be at the bare minimum how we fare in those games)....then a very key road trip including 7 games at Det and Min. Those will obviously be huge games. If we can somehow survive that without too much damage, then we get a stretch of 16 out of 19 at home. I'd love to have a 5 or 6 game lead after all that. If the Sox play well and don't have idiotic games like Sunday where you score 11 runs and lose.

ondafarm
07-15-2008, 01:20 PM
By the way, your Contreras point: are you surprised that he has been so bad lately, or that he was so good for the first two months? Because I think it's been a little of both.

It has been both which have surprised me.

Domeshot17
07-15-2008, 01:32 PM
I gave them a B. It would be an A, but we had a chance to bury Detroit and Minnesota early in the season, and we pissed away a lot of great pitched games and lost them. First Place is nice, but would have been better being up 4-5 games and not 1.5.

Also, hard to give an A to an offense that has a handful of regulars hitting below .260.

Pitching gets an A
Offense gets a C
Bullpen gets an A+
Defense gets a B
Coaching gets a B

jabrch
07-15-2008, 02:00 PM
No, the C and D are just a couple of the usual Clouds.

D is for Douchenozzle

Britt Burns
07-15-2008, 02:34 PM
Starters: A-
Relievers: A+ the best in the bigs so far this year
Defense: B-
Hittng: C+ consistency has been the problem
Management: B+ Oz's tirade seemed to work wonders

Mohoney
07-15-2008, 03:02 PM
Any team in 1st place has to get an A, right? Especially when they were picked by many to finish 3rd or 4th?

bigdommer
07-15-2008, 03:19 PM
The 2008 Sox have performed well above my expections, so far. However, my expectations were for them to be a C- team.

So, I give them a B+.

soxfanatlanta
07-15-2008, 03:37 PM
A.

So far they have completely blown away my expectations of a .500 season. TCQ, and Ramirez were fabulous finds by KW, and Danks is progressing nicely. They should be in the race for the central when October comes.

Times are good.

whitesox901
07-15-2008, 03:50 PM
I gave em' a B, but its the same old thing, if they Javy and Jose can pitch like they can, and if some of the Hitters can hit the way we know they can, then its A++ in my book

turners56
07-15-2008, 04:38 PM
I'm going to count my early expectations in with this one. I wasn't expecting Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Ramirez, Linebrink, and even Dotel to do what they've done. I look at Konerko and I look at Javy and Jose recently as the dissappointments on the team, but when you have so many "good"s and few "bad"s, it's easily an "A" season so far. Could we have done better? Sure. But did anybody expect us to be 14 games over at the break? Hell no. I didn't even think that was possible.

asindc
07-15-2008, 04:45 PM
I'm going to count my early expectations in with this one. I wasn't expecting Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Ramirez, Linebrink, and even Dotel to do what they've done. I look at Konerko and I look at Javy and Jose recently as the dissappointments on the team, but when you have so many "good"s and few "bad"s, it's easily an "A" season so far. Could we have done better? Sure. But did anybody expect us to be 14 games over at the break? Hell no. I didn't even think that was possible.

Actually, I thought before the season stated that this team had enough to get 88-92 wins. I thought Contreras would bounce back (he has somewhat overall), I thought Danks would improve, I thought all the hitters would play better than last year (Konerko, earn your captain's stripes!), I thought Cabrera would be a major upgrade, I thought Swisher would provide some spark, I thought the bullpen would be vastly improved, and I thought Quentin would contribute before the season was over (though not nearly this much!).

With that said, I give the team a B. The way I see it, the Sox have left about 3 games on the table so far with poor execution and failure to manufacture runs. Let's hope Ozzie can get them to focus on those things in the 2nd half.

turners56
07-15-2008, 04:47 PM
Actually, I thought before the season stated that this team had enough to get 88-92 wins. I thought Contreras would bounce back (he has somewhat overall), I thought Danks would improve, I thought all the hitters would play better than last year (Konerko, earn your captain's stripes!), I thought Cabrera would be a major upgrade, I thought Swisher would provide some spark, I thought the bullpen would be vastly improved, and I thought Quentin would contribute before the season was over (though not nearly this much!).

With that said, I give the team a B. The way I see it, the Sox have left about 3 games on the table so far with poor execution and failure to manufacture runs. Let's hope Ozzie can get them to focus on those things in the 2nd half.

I said 88 wins, but they're on pace for 93. Looking at the division, 88 wins might just get you to the playoffs...

BringBackBlkJack
07-15-2008, 05:12 PM
I for one give the White Sox a solid B+, possibly an A-. This is not the perfect baseball team and several components are not performing like they should. On the other hand, two All-Stars and a few others who deserve it IMHO.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

ondafarm
07-15-2008, 05:27 PM
The White Sox are:

1) second in the AL in runs allowed (RA) at 379. Oakland has 345.

2) fourth in runs scored (RS) at 462. Trailing Texas at 538,
Boston at 495
Minny at 464

3) Second in run differential at +83. Red Sox are at +99.

4) The White Sox are 13-11 in one run games.

the1tab
07-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Midterm grades:

AJ: A-
Paulie: D
Alexei: B+ (only because Ozzie wasted a month on Uribe)
Cabrera: B-
Crede: B
THEEEE Carlos Quentin: A+
Anderson: C
Dye: A
Thome: C+

Buehrle: B-
Floyd: A-
Danks: A+
Jose: D+ and sliding
Vazquez: C+
Jenks: B+
Linebrink: A+
Dotel: B+
Logan: B-
Russell: B
Thornton: B

Uribe: F-
OF Bench: C (Wise brings this up a lot)
Hall: C+

Ozzie: C+
Walker: C+
Coop: A-

Kenny Williams: A

Overall: B.

If you told me in March that Quentin would have 20+ HRs and 70+ RBI this year, I would have taken it and run for the bank. At the break? C'mon.

If you had told me in March that JD would have 20 HRs, huge clutch RBIs and not be either an All Star OR the leader on the Sox in many offensive categories, I would have laughed at you.

If you had told me in March that Paulie & Thome would both be hitting Cedric Benson's BAC... I probably would have believed you.

If you had told me in March that Gavin Floyd would win 10 games before the break, Johnny Danks would have an ERA in the top 5 in the AL, and Javy would be .500 at the break, I would have taken you to the pharmacy for a refill.

We've had a lot roll our way so far this year... Cleveland went from juggernaut to the outhouse in about 6 weeks. Minnesota hasn't played well until about the last month. Detroit... wow... the fact that they're still breathing is a shame.

My concern/disappointment is that, considering how well we've pitched (except Jose) and hit (except Paulie to this point), we should have put the division to bed by now. Minnesota is hanging around because we just cannot string together a nice streak. I'm not sure the Wild Card will come from the Central, so we better play like we want it starting Thursday.

delben91
07-15-2008, 06:44 PM
My concern/disappointment is that, considering how well we've pitched (except Jose) and hit (except Paulie to this point), we should have put the division to bed by now. Minnesota is hanging around because we just cannot string together a nice streak. I'm not sure the Wild Card will come from the Central, so we better play like we want it starting Thursday.

I don't want to pin the small lead entirely on inconsistency. With Minny playing .800 ball the last 3 weeks, the Sox would've had to be winning at greater than an 80% clip to expand the lead.

JB98
07-15-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't want to pin the small lead entirely on inconsistency. With Minny playing .800 ball the last 3 weeks, the Sox would've had to be winning at greater than an 80% clip to expand the lead.

The Sox have done a remarkable job of holding first place, given how hot Minnesota has been.

turners56
07-15-2008, 07:21 PM
The White Sox are:

1) second in the AL in runs allowed (RA) at 379. Oakland has 345.

2) fourth in runs scored (RS) at 462. Trailing Texas at 538,
Boston at 495
Minny at 464

3) Second in run differential at +83. Red Sox are at +99.

4) The White Sox are 13-11 in one run games.

We're 3rd in runs scored at 465.

ondafarm
07-15-2008, 09:17 PM
Midterm grades:

Overall: B.

If you had told me in March that Gavin Floyd would win 10 games before the break, Johnny Danks would have an ERA in the top 5 in the AL, and Javy would be .500 at the break, I would have taken you to the pharmacy for a refill.

I'm not sure the Wild Card will come from the Central, so we better play like we want it starting Thursday.

All pretty good issues.

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 05:44 PM
What grade do you give the team as a whole at the All-Star break? Not what grade do you give Thome or Dye, or Ozzie of Kenny Williams, but what grade do you give the 54-40 first place Chicago White Sox. Are they being all you can be? Are they meeting your expectations? Are they exceeding your expectations?

10 days ago, I would have given them an 'A' as they polished off the Tribe and were a couple of semi-flukey swings by Jack Cust away from doing same to Oakland.

However, the continued underwhelming, flawed play on the Road, most recently in KC and Texas, in particular beyond-disappointing outings by Vasquez, Contreras and Floyd.... forces me to downgrade them to 'B' grade.

I'd rather Sox peak in September-October, anyway.:bandance:

ChiSoxFan7
07-17-2008, 06:42 PM
as a new diehard fan (since 2000) i compare excellence to the '05 season. we won every way possible, but at the end of the day we won.

this year our consistency worries me. We just don't hit or pitch for that matter consistently well week by week.


With that being said, im still extremely impressed with the team. they have proven themselves as contenders and have shocked the city and national media who had predicted them as bottom feeders.

KW has again made great trades/signings that were questioned by most (TCQ, TCM, Dotel, Linebrink) and we are reaping the benefits.

Overall this team has played at a b+ level.

vegyrex
07-17-2008, 07:39 PM
This team has shown flashes of brilliance during the first half of the season. If they can make those flashes last longer or have plenty more of them in the second half, they have the potential of doing great things.

B+

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 09:29 PM
AJ: B. Very solid player except for throwing. Does nothing spectacular, which limits his grade-ceiling, as it were. Can be a really tough out and hit good pitching when he wants to, but then he goes right back to bad habits fancying himself a slugger, hence the inconsistency. I'd trade him for Mauer, Yadier Molina or Russell Martin, but otherwise I am content with AJ, lol.

Cabrera: C+ Was awful in the beginning, absolutely inexcusable cold weather or not from a supposed team leader & winner. Then reverted to being the Old Cabrera, spraying line-drives all over the place and driving runs in, a hot streak which coincided with Sox righting ship in June. Very solid if unspectacular defender and can still run the bases very effectively.

Not a positive clubhouse presence? Neither was Royce Clayton, D'Angelo Jimenez, Bartolo Colon; even guys like Frank Thomas, Carlos Lee had their moments in the past, so, you know, it is what it is.....

Alexei: A- El Hawkaroo was kinda right: Missile has been the best player on the team since late-May. Sure, Dye put up better power numbers in that span, but Ramirez in addition to raising his BA by near 200 damn points, brought much more to the plate defensively and on the basepaths, even if it's not always easy to quantify such contributions. As long as TCM''s slight frame holds up, and he doesn't fall in love with the Home Run, he has a chance to be a perennial all-star in the next 5 years IMO. For right now, he is still learning the league and as such is prone to giving up too many atbats for my liking; that OBP could be a higher.

Dye: A- What can you say: JD has picked up where Quentin has left off. To think, back in the 1st half of 2005, this guy was as bad and as hated as Paul Konerko is this year.... No, Dye doesn't have that much in OF, doesn't throw as well as he used to altough his arm is still pretty good. Baserunning is not a factor. But JD can still slug and, most importantly, he slugs I) when it matters and II) off good pitching, which let's face it not all sluggers do equally well.

Quentin: A Helped save the season in April-May when nobody else could hit especially on the Road. Has been slowed down lately with rumored minor injury, fatigue and over-aggressiveness, but that was almost expected and is ok as long as other Sox hitters contribute, and as long as Quentin picks it up down the stretch. Not a great defensive player, but after years of Carlos Lee, Scott Podsednik and Pablo Ozuna collective suckitude in LF, I am not complaining.

Thome: B- Those who unrealistically expected the All-Star starter/MVP type numbers from Jimbo will give him a lower grade. Which is not to say that his snail-paced start was acceptable, because it wasn't but he is on his way to my target numbers: 260-270, 370-390 OBP, 500 Slug, 30 HR, 90 RBI. Thome actually has been hitting Left-handers this season and along with Quentin has been valuable in Road games where production is at premium due to the team's collective struggle there this season. Obviously, it can all change if Thome succumbs to another nagging injury like he has in the last 3-4 years, so it's even more important for younger guys like Swisher and Konerko to rebound to their norm, as an insurence of sorts.

Crede B- Real good comeback story so far. Numbers padded a little by USCF and that monsterous series against the Twins in June, but hey I'll take them all things considered. Joe does go through these periods where his bat barely drags through the zone, so I am thinking his back flares up more often than he lets on, which is one of the reasons why resigning him to big bucks would be a huge risk and likely won't happen.
Disappointing season defensively. Every 3B in the bigs will make spectacular plays from time to time, so I don't want to hear how Crede is this life-saver at the hot corner. Bottomline: a fielder of his caliber has no business having nearly 20 errors at the All-star Break. Period. Hope the 2nd half is better for him.

Konerko: D+ (have to cut him some slack for 2 different injuries though I understand why others wouldn't). What can you say? Bad at the plate. Bad in the field. Takes up a lot of room on the payroll, and forces Swisher to play out of position in CF. But you know what? We gave Jermaine a 2nd chance back in 2005 and it paid off in spades in the 2nd half. Speaking of 2005, without Konerko there may be no Parade that year, he is still in his prime at 32, so there is no reason why he can't get one last chance. It's not as if Sox have any other options at this point in terms of trading him or benching.

Swisher: C The fact that Sox gave up 3 potential major-league players (noone know DLS would need surgery at the time of the trade) certainly fueled the overall disappointment. Saving grace is that Swish was getting on base and has finally flashed some power in June, when people were starting to legitimately question whether or not he was another member of the Bay Area P.E.D. Squad. Swish also was suprisingly solid defensively at 1B during Paulie's absence and, unlike other Sox plodders, can actually score from 1st on a double down the line from time to time. Of course, all that's nullified by the fact that Swisher is not a natural CF, something that series in KC and Texas only further underscored.

Buerhle C+ Mark was about as disappointing a Sox as there was in the first 2 months or so. With velocity down, there was real concern that his shoulder has had enough innings and general overachievement peers Mulder, Zito and, to lesser extent, Hudson on the road to


Vasquez C - Cpt. Enigma. Only Javy can come out with "no-hit" stuff, strike out 8 of the first 10 batters he faced or something like that, be given the lead... and then before you know it, he clips Kurt Suzuki's jersey with with 2 strikes on him - and, voila, you got a 4-spot for the bad guys on the board. Dan Bernstein is right: Vasquez would be cruising and next thing you know his brain (or balls, dependinhg on situation) leave his body and go to the zoo.

Floyd B+ Floyd's start to the season, including two times flirting with a no-hitter, warranted a resounding grade 'A'.... but he's been a little too ordinary for my taste since that time. He's given up an unacceptable amount of unearned runs for a frontline pitcher or any pitcher for that matter, which obviously keeps his ERA at a very respectable level, and has had been rather fortunate with Run Support.

Contreras: C Like with Thome, I had lesser expectations of Contreras so his recent horridness doesn't hurt his grade as much as it would, say, Vasquez. Contreras is well into his 40s, people, and Sox made a mistake extending him like they did with another year remaining on his old deal. Obviously, best case scenario is that Jose has his final afterglow of a 2nd half and leads the Sox to another World Series title.

Danks A Easiest to grade for me. Youngest starter; came in not quaranteed a spot in rotation. By far the best Sox starter where it matters most: on the road - not that he's all that bad at home - and his stats would be even better if Ozzie would realize that as a maximum effort guy who doesn't know how to pace himself yet, Danks sometimes may need to be taken out after 90 pitches or so. (Not to mention I am sure our bullpen would much rather start the inning with bases empty than have come in time and time again and strand runners belonging to Danks, which is harder to do, but I digress.)

Linebrink B Prior to Aramis Ramirez taking him deep, Linebrink was having a Cliff Politte-esque 1st half (2005), pound for pound the most valuable reliever on our team IMO. In the last month, however, his stuff hasn't been as crisp, and confidence waned a little, leading to big hits given up. Much like the worn-down Cliff Politte in 2nd half of 2005, come to think of it. Hopefully this time around, Sox make smarter use of Linebrink.

Dotel B Right-handed Damaso Marte (the good Marte circa Jerry Manuel years) Makes splendid use of a low-90s fastball to strike out RH batters which is important in winning-run-run-at-3rd-with-1-out type situations.

Jenks B+ Let's be honest: of course we'd rather have Jenks with "nintendo" stuff ala 2005: anyone remember his debut against the Angels? Mercy! But now Jenks is a pitcher, not just a thrower, and as long as he can get it up to 95 mph when he needs to, he can be very effective. His grade is a reflection of his last couple of outings before DL trip where he constantly had to pitch out of trouble and was barely touching 90 on the gun.

Thornton A- The 2nd best one-pitch pitcher in baseball. Which is not necessarily a good thing and may catch up to him down the stretch, but, hey, considering he's a #4 reliever on our depth chart, it would be crazy to whine about his excellent production thus far.

ondafarm
07-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Adele_H,

a couple of guys I'd grade higher, but a very objective set of rankings.

Brian26
07-17-2008, 09:43 PM
AJ: B. Very solid player except for throwing. Does nothing spectacular, which limits his grade-ceiling, as it were. Can be a really tough out and hit good pitching when he wants to, but then he goes right back to bad habits fancying himself a slugger, hence the inconsistency. I'd trade him for Mauer, Yadier Molina or Russell Martin, but otherwise I am content with AJ, lol.

Cabrera: C+ Was awful in the beginning, absolutely inexcusable cold weather or not from a supposed team leader & winner. Then reverted to being the Old Cabrera, spraying line-drives all over the place and driving runs in, a hot streak which coincided with Sox righting ship in June. Very solid if unspectacular defender and can still run the bases very effectively.

Not a positive clubhouse presence? Neither was Royce Clayton, D'Angelo Jimenez, Bartolo Colon; even guys like Frank Thomas, Carlos Lee had their moments in the past, so, you know, it is what it is.....

Alexei: A- El Hawkaroo was kinda right: Missile has been the best player on the team since late-May. Sure, Dye put up better power numbers in that span, but Ramirez in addition to raising his BA by near 200 damn points, brought much more to the plate defensively and on the basepaths, even if it's not always easy to quantify such contributions. As long as TCM''s slight frame holds up, and he doesn't fall in love with the Home Run, he has a chance to be a perennial all-star in the next 5 years IMO. For right now, he is still learning the league and as such is prone to giving up too many atbats for my liking; that OBP could be a higher.

Dye: A- What can you say: JD has picked up where Quentin has left off. To think, back in the 1st half of 2005, this guy was as bad and as hated as Paul Konerko is this year.... No, Dye doesn't have that much in OF, doesn't throw as well as he used to altough his arm is still pretty good. Baserunning is not a factor. But JD can still slug and, most importantly, he slugs I) when it matters and II) off good pitching, which let's face it not all sluggers do equally well.

Quentin: A Helped save the season in April-May when nobody else could hit especially on the Road. Has been slowed down lately with rumored minor injury, fatigue and over-aggressiveness, but that was almost expected and is ok as long as other Sox hitters contribute, and as long as Quentin picks it up down the stretch. Not a great defensive player, but after years of Carlos Lee, Scott Podsednik and Pablo Ozuna collective suckitude in LF, I am not complaining.

Thome: B- Those who unrealistically expected the All-Star starter/MVP type numbers from Jimbo will give him a lower grade. Which is not to say that his snail-paced start was acceptable, because it wasn't but he is on his way to my target numbers: 260-270, 370-390 OBP, 500 Slug, 30 HR, 90 RBI. Thome actually has been hitting Left-handers this season and along with Quentin has been valuable in Road games where production is at premium due to the team's collective struggle there this season. Obviously, it can all change if Thome succumbs to another nagging injury like he has in the last 3-4 years, so it's even more important for younger guys like Swisher and Konerko to rebound to their norm, as an insurence of sorts.

Crede B- Real good comeback story so far. Numbers padded a little by USCF and that monsterous series against the Twins in June, but hey I'll take them all things considered. Joe does go through these periods where his bat barely drags through the zone, so I am thinking his back flares up more often than he lets on, which is one of the reasons why resigning him to big bucks would be a huge risk and likely won't happen.
Disappointing season defensively. Every 3B in the bigs will make spectacular plays from time to time, so I don't want to hear how Crede is this life-saver at the hot corner. Bottomline: a fielder of his caliber has no business having nearly 20 errors at the All-star Break. Period. Hope the 2nd half is better for him.

Konerko: D+ (have to cut him some slack for 2 different injuries though I understand why others wouldn't). What can you say? Bad at the plate. Bad in the field. Takes up a lot of room on the payroll, and forces Swisher to play out of position in CF. But you know what? We gave Jermaine a 2nd chance back in 2005 and it paid off in spades in the 2nd half. Speaking of 2005, without Konerko there may be no Parade that year, he is still in his prime at 32, so there is no reason why he can't get one last chance. It's not as if Sox have any other options at this point in terms of trading him or benching.

Swisher: C The fact that Sox gave up 3 potential major-league players (noone know DLS would need surgery at the time of the trade) certainly fueled the overall disappointment. Saving grace is that Swish was getting on base and has finally flashed some power in June, when people were starting to legitimately question whether or not he was another member of the Bay Area P.E.D. Squad. Swish also was suprisingly solid defensively at 1B during Paulie's absence and, unlike other Sox plodders, can actually score from 1st on a double down the line from time to time. Of course, all that's nullified by the fact that Swisher is not a natural CF, something that series in KC and Texas only further underscored.

Buerhle C+ Mark was about as disappointing a Sox as there was in the first 2 months or so. With velocity down, there was real concern that his shoulder has had enough innings and general overachievement peers Mulder, Zito and, to lesser extent, Hudson on the road to


Vasquez C - Cpt. Enigma. Only Javy can come out with "no-hit" stuff, strike out 8 of the first 10 batters he faced or something like that, be given the lead... and then before you know it, he clips Kurt Suzuki's jersey with with 2 strikes on him - and, voila, you got a 4-spot for the bad guys on the board. Dan Bernstein is right: Vasquez would be cruising and next thing you know his brain (or balls, dependinhg on situation) leave his body and go to the zoo.

Floyd B+ Floyd's start to the season, including two times flirting with a no-hitter, warranted a resounding grade 'A'.... but he's been a little too ordinary for my taste since that time. He's given up an unacceptable amount of unearned runs for a frontline pitcher or any pitcher for that matter, which obviously keeps his ERA at a very respectable level, and has had been rather fortunate with Run Support.

Contreras: C Like with Thome, I had lesser expectations of Contreras so his recent horridness doesn't hurt his grade as much as it would, say, Vasquez. Contreras is well into his 40s, people, and Sox made a mistake extending him like they did with another year remaining on his old deal. Obviously, best case scenario is that Jose has his final afterglow of a 2nd half and leads the Sox to another World Series title.

Danks A Easiest to grade for me. Youngest starter; came in not quaranteed a spot in rotation. By far the best Sox starter where it matters most: on the road - not that he's all that bad at home - and his stats would be even better if Ozzie would realize that as a maximum effort guy who doesn't know how to pace himself yet, Danks sometimes may need to be taken out after 90 pitches or so. (Not to mention I am sure our bullpen would much rather start the inning with bases empty than have come in time and time again and strand runners belonging to Danks, which is harder to do, but I digress.)

Linebrink B Prior to Aramis Ramirez taking him deep, Linebrink was having a Cliff Politte-esque 1st half (2005), pound for pound the most valuable reliever on our team IMO. In the last month, however, his stuff hasn't been as crisp, and confidence waned a little, leading to big hits given up. Much like the worn-down Cliff Politte in 2nd half of 2005, come to think of it. Hopefully this time around, Sox make smarter use of Linebrink.

Dotel B Right-handed Damaso Marte (the good Marte circa Jerry Manuel years) Makes splendid use of a low-90s fastball to strike out RH batters which is important in winning-run-run-at-3rd-with-1-out type situations.

Jenks B+ Let's be honest: of course we'd rather have Jenks with "nintendo" stuff ala 2005: anyone remember his debut against the Angels? Mercy! But now Jenks is a pitcher, not just a thrower, and as long as he can get it up to 95 mph when he needs to, he can be very effective. His grade is a reflection of his last couple of outings before DL trip where he constantly had to pitch out of trouble and was barely touching 90 on the gun.

Thornton A- The 2nd best one-pitch pitcher in baseball. Which is not necessarily a good thing and may catch up to him down the stretch, but, hey, considering he's a #4 reliever on our depth chart, it would be crazy to whine about his excellent production thus far.

Um, you forgot Toby Hall. Try to actually contribute something to the board.



Just kidding. :tongue: Nice job.

the1tab
07-17-2008, 09:49 PM
Um, you forgot Toby Hall. Try to actually contribute something to the board.

Just kidding. :tongue: Nice job.

Adele - I like the grades and agree with them mostly. I would just give Javy a better grade than Jose. Vazquez pitches just well enough to lose a close game... while Jose gets all the run support in the world (save a few for Danks??) and gives up a couple touchdowns in saying Thank You to the boys. I'd have to give Vazquez a higher grade than Contreras.

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 09:57 PM
Uribe D+ Talented but not very smart or hard-working. If it's true what Ozzie said about Uribe not minding to be benched in favor of Ramirez and being resigned to simply collect his paycheck, it certainly explains why mosts seasons he reports out of shape and has failed to improve any aspect of his game. A tad overrated defensively (range not quite up there with guys like healthy Furcal, Izturis, Everett, Alexei, etc) but still better than most middle INF with the glove. Awful baserunning instincts and not much better at bunting. With Ozuna gone and making a lot of money for a bench player, Uribe faces increased pressure to produce.

Hall B Was a real tough out in the early going; simply refused to give up at-bats. Has come down to earth but remains a very solid back-up catcher who could probably start on some noncontending teams.

Anderson C+ If only Bri-Bri could hit RHP, or hit on the road outside of Seattle or steal bases wholesale at high %.... Cuz with his defense, he'll stick around the majors for a while. Still young enough to prove his critics wrong and become the Caucasian Torii Hunter Ultra-Lite :)

Pablo C- being 4 years older than he claimed, losing a step after the broken leg, inability to hit RHP, losing his batting practice coach CC Sabathia to the Brewers... Wouldn't suprise me if Pablo caught on with some team in an Aaron Miles type role, which I guess isn't too shabby.

Wise A- Looks like a juiced up Willie Harris. Swings like Carl Everett. Runs like Mike Cameron. Isn't terrible in CF. Low salary. What's not to like? Will the love affair last? Probably not, but what's the alternative? Unretiring Joe Borchard?

Logan B Another guy whose performance was hurt by recent road trip to KC, Texas where Logan was flat & wild, and was pounded as a result. No disrespect to Mark Teahan or Chris Davis, but Boone Logan even circa 2 weeks ago eats them alive.

Masset C+ Didn't have enough high-pressure situations, and, besides, a mid-3.00 ERA may be good for a starting pitching, but for a middle reliever, it's pretty average. Still, can't complain about Masset if only because I am old enough to remember Rick White, Billy Koch, Mike Jackson, Andy Sisco, Mike McDougal in all their horrid glory... .

Russell INcomplete - Do like the Vulture Way, and it's not as if Michael Young hit a rocket, either, it's probably just a ground-out on much slower infield at USCF.

MCHSoxFan
07-17-2008, 09:58 PM
Midterm grades:

AJ: A-
Paulie: D
Alexei: B+ (only because Ozzie wasted a month on Uribe)
Cabrera: B-
Crede: B
THEEEE Carlos Quentin: A+
Anderson: C
Dye: A
Thome: C+

Buehrle: B-
Floyd: A-
Danks: A+
Jose: D+ and sliding
Vazquez: C+
Jenks: B+
Linebrink: A+
Dotel: B+
Logan: B-
Russell: B
Thornton: B

Uribe: F-
OF Bench: C (Wise brings this up a lot)
Hall: C+

Ozzie: C+
Walker: C+
Coop: A-

Kenny Williams: A

Overall: B.



I agree with your grades. However, I don't agree with Juan's grade. He doesn't even really play. Anyways, he is not at an F, let alone an F-. I know White Sox Nation hates him, but, give him the right credit. Also, I do not think Ozzie is a C-! Can you explain this to me? I mean, he hasn't ****ed up the pen like people were saying last season. The only thing I can think is the people who LOVE BA are gonna say he don't play him enough. Fine...Still...NOT A DANG C-!

1,501 POST! WSI CHURCH ELDER!!! YES!!!

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 10:00 PM
Um, you forgot Toby Hall. Try to actually contribute something to the board.



Just kidding. :tongue: Nice job.


I knew I left out lesser known and otherwise undesirable names, so I added another post.

Been reading the board for about two years now but just now had the courage to post :bandance:

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 10:07 PM
Adele - I like the grades and agree with them mostly. I would just give Javy a better grade than Jose. Vazquez pitches just well enough to lose a close game... while Jose gets all the run support in the world (save a few for Danks??) and gives up a couple touchdowns in saying Thank You to the boys. I'd have to give Vazquez a higher grade than Contreras.

You may be right but I personally didn't expect as much from Contreras going into the season because of age/nagging injuries, so for him to essentially match Vasquez's (admittedly mediocre) production, was a feat, if you can call it that.

Grading systems can be so subjective, though.

Boondock Saint
07-17-2008, 10:11 PM
Alexei: A- El Hawkaroo was kinda right: Missile has been the best player on the team since late-May. Sure, Dye put up better power numbers in that span, but Ramirez in addition to raising his BA by near 200 damn points, brought much more to the plate defensively and on the basepaths, even if it's not always easy to quantify such contributions. As long as TCM''s slight frame holds up, and he doesn't fall in love with the Home Run, he has a chance to be a perennial all-star in the next 5 years IMO. For right now, he is still learning the league and as such is prone to giving up too many atbats for my liking; that OBP could be a higher.


Vasquez C - Cpt. Enigma. Only Javy can come out with "no-hit" stuff, strike out 8 of the first 10 batters he faced or something like that, be given the lead... and then before you know it, he clips Kurt Suzuki's jersey with with 2 strikes on him - and, voila, you got a 4-spot for the bad guys on the board. Dan Bernstein is right: Vasquez would be cruising and next thing you know his brain (or balls, dependinhg on situation) leave his body and go to the zoo.


Thornton A- The 2nd best one-pitch pitcher in baseball. Which is not necessarily a good thing and may catch up to him down the stretch, but, hey, considering he's a #4 reliever on our depth chart, it would be crazy to whine about his excellent production thus far.

Just thought I'd comment on a couple things...

1) :welcome:

The fact that you spell Alexei correctly makes you A-OK in my book. You may stay. :redneck

2) On the other hand, it's VaZquez. :redneck

3) I'd say it's a bit unfair to Thornton to call him a one-pitch pitcher. He's got a decent slider, made better by his intelligent and timely use of it.

But other than that, I'd say you did a pretty good/fair job of grading the team.

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Just thought I'd comment on a couple things...

1) :welcome:

The fact that you spell Alexei correctly makes you A-OK in my book. You may stay. :redneck

2) On the other hand, it's VaZquez. :redneck

3) I'd say it's a bit unfair to Thornton to call him a one-pitch pitcher. He's got a decent slider, made better by his intelligent and timely use of it.

But other than that, I'd say you did a pretty good/fair job of grading the team.

1) We have a lot of Alexeis where I am from, so piece of cake.

2) Not a lot of VaZquezes (Vazquesae? Vazquezii? Please help! ), on the other hand :mad:

3) Thornton's slider has had a tendency to stay up last couple of years, not doing much other than speeding up the hitter's bat. Ask Gabe Ross. If he and Dotel for that matter could throw a consistently quality breaking ball, they'd be closers for other teams, making some real $$$.

Adele_H
07-17-2008, 10:43 PM
Adele_H,

a couple of guys I'd grade higher, but a very objective set of rankings.

By all means, the grades weren't meant to be definitive, I bet if I would go over the players again, I'd change a few myself. That's what makes grading or posting on sports message board, um, fun?

Ondafarm, I am curious which ones do you disagree with the most and why. Thanks.

ondafarm
07-17-2008, 11:13 PM
Cabrera: C+ Was awful in the beginning, absolutely inexcusable cold weather or not from a supposed team leader & winner. Then reverted to being the Old Cabrera, spraying line-drives all over the place and driving runs in, a hot streak which coincided with Sox righting ship in June. Very solid if unspectacular defender and can still run the bases very effectively.

Not a positive clubhouse presence? Neither was Royce Clayton, D'Angelo Jimenez, Bartolo Colon; even guys like Frank Thomas, Carlos Lee had their moments in the past, so, you know, it is what it is.....

Cabrera is a very legit GG SS. Possibly the best defender I've ever seen. The problem is he never looks spectacular. In this era of Web-Gems being the measure of a good defender and not a poor one OC just really impresses me every game I go to. His movement before the ball is in play while the pitch is on its way is better than anyone else I have ever seen do that. Only great defenders do that. Alexei may as his confidence continues to rise. Part of this year's improvement in pitching is the improvement in defense and a large part of the improvement is OC. To me any hitting is gravy and he's hitting .270

I give him an A- considering he is being badly used as a lead-off man.


Crede B- Real good comeback story so far. Numbers padded a little by USCF and that monsterous series against the Twins in June, but hey I'll take them all things considered. Joe does go through these periods where his bat barely drags through the zone, so I am thinking his back flares up more often than he lets on, which is one of the reasons why resigning him to big bucks would be a huge risk and likely won't happen.
Disappointing season defensively. Every 3B in the bigs will make spectacular plays from time to time, so I don't want to hear how Crede is this life-saver at the hot corner. Bottomline: a fielder of his caliber has no business having nearly 20 errors at the All-star Break. Period. Hope the 2nd half is better for him.

Agreed that Crede's back must be hurting more than he lets on. His errors are either huge lapses of concentration, very un-Crede like or because of ongoing pain. Still he makes the plays that other 3B just wave at. Sorry, he is a lifesaver. See OC for how it helps the pitchers. I give him a B+.


Swisher: C The fact that Sox gave up 3 potential major-league players (noone know DLS would need surgery at the time of the trade) certainly fueled the overall disappointment. Saving grace is that Swish was getting on base and has finally flashed some power in June, when people were starting to legitimately question whether or not he was another member of the Bay Area P.E.D. Squad. Swish also was suprisingly solid defensively at 1B during Paulie's absence and, unlike other Sox plodders, can actually score from 1st on a double down the line from time to time. Of course, all that's nullified by the fact that Swisher is not a natural CF, something that series in KC and Texas only further underscored.

Swish, playing out of position offensively and defensively kept things going for awhile but then fell apart. Since he started playing first showed why he's a notch above PK there. His hitting came back too. Why he doesn't just super-sub at first (when PK or Thome rests) in right or left is beyond me. Ozzie has a platoon in center that he now refuses to use. None of that is Swisher's fault. His grade: solid B from me.



Floyd B+ Floyd's start to the season, including two times flirting with a no-hitter, warranted a resounding grade 'A'.... but he's been a little too ordinary for my taste since that time. He's given up an unacceptable amount of unearned runs for a frontline pitcher or any pitcher for that matter, which obviously keeps his ERA at a very respectable level, and has had been rather fortunate with Run Support.

Ten wins at the All-Star break merits an A in my book.

ArkanSox
07-18-2008, 01:26 AM
I gave the White Sox an "A" in the pole.

I wrote in the March "who doesn't like how this team is constructed?" thread:

I like the way this team is put together. We have a lot of tested vets and some younger guys with unproven, but great potential. We have a little bit of insurance on the bench and in Triple A. The offense and the bullpen should be able to keep us in games if Danks and Floyd can at least maintain for 5 innings per start. Contreras, as he demonstrated in 2005, can be a staff ace if he keeps his head on straight. The defense should be well above average--I'm thinking Anderson in center and Uribe at second. If a couple of guys (take your pick--PK, Dye, Thome, Crede, Swisher) have career years, they may just take us all the way to the promised land.

sincerely,

Polyanna ArkanSox
-------
How do I like the way this team is constructed now? Well, I was pumped by Jose's start, but not so much lately. Danks and Floyd have far exceeded my expectations, and Mark and Javy are still solid starters. Starting pitching is a strength and the relief pitching with Bobby back is an awesome luxury.

Back in March I thought that with good pitching and good D, we might have a great team if at least two of our top three hitters came up big. Dye did, TCQ filled in for PK, and Thome came on late.

Now, with the superb Alexei, a very solid OC, a didn't go Joe, a battling and improved Swish, a healthy Paulie, and an Uribe and a BA on the bench--

I like our chances even better from here on out.

Sincerely,

Polyannaier ArkanSox

Adele_H
07-18-2008, 02:59 AM
Cabrera is a very legit GG SS. Possibly the best defender I've ever seen. The problem is he never looks spectacular. In this era of Web-Gems being the measure of a good defender and not a poor one OC just really impresses me every game I go to. His movement before the ball is in play while the pitch is on its way is better than anyone else I have ever seen do that. Only great defenders do that. Alexei may as his confidence continues to rise. Part of this year's improvement in pitching is the improvement in defense and a large part of the improvement is OC. To me any hitting is gravy and he's hitting .270

I give him an A- considering he is being badly used as a lead-off man.




Agreed that Crede's back must be hurting more than he lets on. His errors are either huge lapses of concentration, very un-Crede like or because of ongoing pain. Still he makes the plays that other 3B just wave at. Sorry, he is a lifesaver. See OC for how it helps the pitchers. I give him a B+.



Swish, playing out of position offensively and defensively kept things going for awhile but then fell apart. Since he started playing first showed why he's a notch above PK there. His hitting came back too. Why he doesn't just super-sub at first (when PK or Thome rests) in right or left is beyond me. Ozzie has a platoon in center that he now refuses to use. None of that is Swisher's fault. His grade: solid B from me.





Ten wins at the All-Star break merits an A in my book.

Thanks for the input/perspective.

Alright, I am glad we're close enough on Crede and Floyd, splitting hairs.

It's funny but I usually end up defending Cabrera from the "he has no range, man; he lolly gags cuz he knows he won't be here next year" crowd, citing among other things his anticipation skills. But I definately think he's less agile, less aggressive even compared to a year ago, throws with less zip, which really shows on plays in the hole. And even in FP if it weren't for his reputation and official scorers being a little intimidated by him, he could have at least 5 more errors, most notably DP, relay throws or anything involving potential contact around 2nd base... latest being on Paulie's throw following Logan's pickoff in Texas. And with all due respect, I doubt the tremendeous strides made by Danks, Floyd, Logan, Thornton and Co. this season have that much to with Cabrera playing SS instead of Uribe.

Swisher has had a ton of pitches to hit during his horrid slump and just couldn't do anything with them, especially in the "clutch" whatever that means. I hardly think playing CF had anything to do with it, a highly paid professional shouldn't lose his "groove" that easily. His somewhat USCF-aided hot streak in June was nice, especially grand slam against Cubs, but it shouldn't overshadow the fact that he's not near where Sox expected him to be offensively, although the outlook is far less dire than it was 6 weeks ago; hopefully Swish is poised for a big 2nd half.

Also since Swish was graded as a CF, I thought it would be fair to point out his deficiencies there.


Did I miss anything in my grading of the "scubs"? :)

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 09:15 AM
Adele, we are in agreement about Swish in CF. He's not anywhere near a rock-solid defender there. And, I don't think it's a lack of effort on his part, he appears to be doing his best, it's just he's much better suited for left or right and his best spot is first.

I think you are wrong about the "professional" part though. Actually, Swish is too much of a professional for his own good. Normal protocol is for the CF to attend all of the pitcher meetings before series start. The CF captains the outfield which means he positions the other two outfielders and himself. CF is a lot more work than LF or RF, if you are a professional. The lead-off guy also traditionally leads the hitter's meeting before a series, so Swish was getting in on both big meetings, which really does mean a lot of intellectual work. Now, I knew teams where nobody handled more than one meeting, but I understand the Sox are not that way. Keep in mind, you are also getting yourself ready.

Swish was just worn down the first part of the season.

As for OC, I'm glad to have him here, especially for this season. I think he's teaching Alexei a ton about the AL. Not that AR is bad, but one can always improve. Although I think Alexei will make a fine SS next year, I'd much rather have both guys.

Adele_H
07-18-2008, 12:33 PM
As for OC, I'm glad to have him here, especially for this season. I think he's teaching Alexei a ton about the AL. Not that AR is bad, but one can always improve. Although I think Alexei will make a fine SS next year, I'd much rather have both guys.

The question is, do you re-sign Cabrera (with Richar, Getz, Beckham or guys like Iguchi in FA)?

Would you bring him back?

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 01:38 PM
The question is, do you re-sign Cabrera (with Richar, Getz, Beckham or guys like Iguchi in FA)?

Would you bring him back?

I'd love to have Iguchi back, but I've heard from sources that he despises the White Sox management for dumping him for so little.

I believe the ceiling for Richar is a little too low for my taste. I see him as a better Willie Harris, but not too much better.

Getz is the second baseman of the future, but he has to win the spot in my mind (or really Ozzie's mind.) Beckham needs a year or two of seasoning. He also might move around.

My guess for the White Sox next year is that they let both Crede and OC walk and get a few picks for them. 3B goes to Fields, Alexei moves to SS, Richar and Getz fight it out for 2B. Interesting moves all.

If I was doing the planning, I'd actually be asking Alexei if he could play third, but I know that is not happening.

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 01:40 PM
The really interesting move would be trading Konerko to either the Dodgers or Diamondbacks, which would probably get that club into the playoffs and sink the other. But would either have enough prospects they'd part with to get the guy.

Adele_H
07-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I'd love to have Iguchi back, but I've heard from sources that he despises the White Sox management for dumping him for so little.

I believe the ceiling for Richar is a little too low for my taste. I see him as a better Willie Harris, but not too much better.

Getz is the second baseman of the future, but he has to win the spot in my mind (or really Ozzie's mind.) Beckham needs a year or two of seasoning. He also might move around.

My guess for the White Sox next year is that they let both Crede and OC walk and get a few picks for them. 3B goes to Fields, Alexei moves to SS, Richar and Getz fight it out for 2B. Interesting moves all.

.

Iguchi needs to grow up and realize why he was traded for so little, if you know what I mean.

Iguchi also should be thankful Sox gave him an opportunity to shine in another pennant race with Phillies, which yielded him a lucrative 3-year contract offer at the end of the season... which he turned down.

Lastly, it looks like Gooch is developing an ego, moving away from simplified, fundamentals-heavy style that made him such a hit in 2005 - Kaz Matsui can tell him all about what happens when people buy into their own hype.... Too bad.

I haven't seen Richar play this year; with tougher drug policy, one is really taking a chance trying evaluate going off of memory of yesteryear vs. the here-and-now.... Anyway, Richar of 2007, at least to me was superior to Willie Harris in the following:

a) batspeed
b) batting eye
c) throwing arm
d) fluidity

while Willie bested him in speed, surehandedness and maybe range.

Maybe I am completely wrong but any time I looked at Richar, Robinson Cano Lite popped into mind.

Getz I know less about, so I'll defer to others on him. Sounds like a pure gamer, a Lew Ford overachiever type (talking the good Lew Ford in his rookie year here).

Alexei is a beast; however it remains to be seen if he continues to stay within himself and make adjustments, or tries to be like Soriano - because very few hitters if any can get away with such undisciplined approach that verges on lack of preparation.

Now Gordon Beckham? Michael Young upside?

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 02:24 PM
BTW, Iguchi really hates that nickname. It doesn't translate well.

oeo
07-18-2008, 02:25 PM
Iguchi needs to grow up and realize why he was traded for so little, if you know what I mean. Iguchi also should be thankful Sox gave an opportunity to shine in another pennant race, which also yielded him a lucrative 3-year at the end of the season... which he turned down. Lastly, it looks like Gooch is developing an ego, moving away from simplified, fundamentals-heavy style that made him such a hit in 2005 and Kaz Matsui can tell him all about what happens when people buy into their own hype.... Too bad.

Don't believe everything you read...especially when it's some guy on a message board with "sources." There were reports this offseason that he missed the Sox and wanted to re-sign here over the offseason. He's also had nothing but good things to say about the Sox since his departure.

We don't want Iguchi, anyway. I liked him while he was here, but I think we got the best of his time in America. He's edging the mid-30s, and his range at 2B was really going down the crapper last year. He'll always be one of my all-time favorite Sox, but the Sox rightfully moved on from him.

BTW, ondafarm: have you even seen Richar that you're comparing him to Willie Harris? About the only similarities are they both play 2B, and are fast.

BTW, Iguchi really hates that nickname. It doesn't translate well.

Iguchi is quoted as saying he loved the "Gooooooch" chant. Where do you get this stuff from? Let me guess...you personally know Iguchi.

Adele_H
07-18-2008, 02:25 PM
Of course a lot will depend what happens this year. If it's a magical ending ala 2005 and Cabrera plays a huuge part in it, he might just return (barring unreasonable depands). Same for Konerko/Thome and maybe even Crede, who knows.

On the other hand, if Sox fall apart in the 2nd half ala 2004, it changes everything and nobody may be off limits.

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 02:28 PM
Don't believe everything you read...especially when it's some guy on a message board with "sources." There were reports this offseason that he missed the Sox and wanted to re-sign here over the offseason. He's also had nothing but good things to say about the Sox since his departure. . .

"Sources." My former manager and his former manager, Sadaharu Oh, were teammates.

He doesn't miss the Sox.

ondafarm
07-18-2008, 02:29 PM
Of course a lot will depend what happens this year. If it's a magical ending ala 2005 and Cabrera plays a huuge part in it, he might just return (barring unreasonable depands). Same for Konerko/Thome and maybe even Crede, who knows.

On the other hand, if Sox fall apart in the 2nd half ala 2004, it changes everything and nobody may be off limits.

Totally agreed.

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 12:29 AM
agreed.


As you said, one thing that's hurting Cabrera is he may be out of his comfort zone in the lead-off role in terms of his skill-set being ideally suited for 2-hole, though I personally believe that the unfamiliar midwest environment, early-season frigid weather and his agent probably wispering in his ear to hit more of dem sexy HR thereby altering his approach, may have played their equal part in early season struggles too.

I tell you what, having Scotty Prancer circa 1st half of 2005 getting on base near 400 clip and wrecking absolute havoc on the pads, would be godsend right about now.... In fact, if we didn't have Thome at DH, I'd really liked to see Ray Durham back as a DH and lead-off hitter, what a smart trade for Milwakee.

Bat Ramirez in lead-off?

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 01:31 AM
Vasquez C - Cpt. Enigma. Only Javy can come out with "no-hit" stuff, strike out 8 of the first 10 batters he faced or something like that, be given the lead... and then before you know it, he clips Kurt Suzuki's jersey with with 2 strikes on him - and, voila, you got a 4-spot for the bad guys on the board. Dan Bernstein is right: Vasquez would be cruising and next thing you know his brain (or balls, depending on the situation) leave his body and go to the zoo.

.


Second straight start at the Cell, Vazquez looks Pedro-esque, then starts screwing around with bottom of the order guys, maybe doesn't get the call he wanted from the ump....

Seriously, how the F' does he do it! :angry:

TheVulture
07-23-2008, 03:40 AM
With the amount of talent on the team I'm really surprised most people's expectation were not higher.

I had relatively high expectations with the acquisitions of Quentin, Swisher and Ramirez, but I still thought the pitching was going to come up short. Definitely didn't see Danks and Floyd pitching this well, and despite Contreras' struggles, I think we'd all have been happy before the season started with his numbers at this point.

A high A-.

Adele_H
07-23-2008, 10:32 AM
I wonder what grade all the Baseball Prospectuseses gave the 2008 White Sox so far.

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 02:11 AM
I said 88 wins, but they're on pace for 93. Looking at the division, 88 wins might just get you to the playoffs...

Hmm, 88 wins? I am not sure it'll be enough to win the divison.

What's the word on Twins getting Lirianski back and trading for Beltre?

Nellie_Fox
07-24-2008, 02:31 AM
Hmm, 88 wins? I am not sure it'll be enough to win the divison.

What's the word on Twins getting Lirianski back and trading for Beltre?Lirianski?

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 03:09 PM
Lirianski?

Franscisco Lirianski-pants.

Formally.