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View Full Version : Sox might be making a trade for an ALL-Star Pitcher??


Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 03:46 PM
According to a few reports here in the bay area today, not to sure if this was reported in Chicago but the Sox had several scouts at the A's game yesterday to scout Justin Duchscherer and started talk with the A's..

this is big news if it's true... Who do the Sox have left to trade I was thinking the A's would want Fields,Poerda and maybe Broadway.


I do know Ken Rosenthal mentioned the other day that Justin will be traded, so it looks like the Sox might be #1 to get his services..

DumpJerry
07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
Any links to these reports?

chisoxmike
07-14-2008, 03:53 PM
From what I have heard, the DRays view trading Crawford as their best option to get young starting pitching. He is considered tradeable because of Delmon Young. If the White Sox make a play, look for a three way trade with a national league playoff type team. The Sox would ship a starter (Not McCarthy) for a package that would go to TB with the Sox getting Crawford.

-otis

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 03:54 PM
Any links to these reports?


it was on KYCY1550AM here in the bay area. as well as a report on XM radio

oeo
07-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Kenny looks at everyone around this time. Don't get too excited unless he gets a heck of a deal. With the season Duchscherer is having, I doubt he gets one.

asindc
07-14-2008, 03:55 PM
From what I have heard, the DRays view trading Crawford as their best option to get young starting pitching. He is considered tradeable because of Delmon Young. If the White Sox make a play, look for a three way trade with a national league playoff type team. The Sox would ship a starter (Not McCarthy) for a package that would go to TB with the Sox getting Crawford.

-otis

Delmon Young plays for Minny now. Was traded to them in the off-season.

chisoxmike
07-14-2008, 03:56 PM
Delmon Young plays for Minny now. Was traded to them in the off-season.

:rolling:

I know. I didn't write that. WSI's inside man otis did in the 2006 offseason.

I was being an ass.

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 03:58 PM
:rolling:

I know. I didn't write that. WSI's inside man otis did in the 2006 offseason.

I was being an ass.


What does that have to do with this rumor... It's a probably a long shot that we get Justin but it's being reported

chisoxmike
07-14-2008, 04:02 PM
What does that have to do with this rumor...

:shrug:

getonbckthr
07-14-2008, 04:02 PM
What does that have to do with this rumor... It's a probably a long shot that we get Justin but it's being reported
Because you have become the 2nd coming of Otis.

UofCSoxFan
07-14-2008, 04:03 PM
:rolling:

I know. I didn't write that. WSI's inside man otis did in the 2006 offseason.

I was being an ass.

OK...well it was really confusing how your write that...you may want to edit to say WSI poster otis, 2006.

I mean I was wondering what you were talking about with Young and MacCarthy.

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 04:05 PM
Because you have become the 2nd coming of Otis.

Did you say that when i gave this site the Quentin deal at least 20 mins before any expert knew about it

getonbckthr
07-14-2008, 04:07 PM
Did you say that when i gave this site the Quentin deal at least 20 mins before any expert knew about it
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 04:09 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

when was the last time you reported a deal on this site before it happen, thats right you never did....

2906
07-14-2008, 04:10 PM
This is Kenny Williams' M.O. He's always looking for good pitching, especially at this time of year. And not back of the rotation guys either.

Not a surprise that he's trying to upgrade. He sees what Sox fans see.

WhiteSox5187
07-14-2008, 04:10 PM
Did you say that when i gave this site the Quentin deal at least 20 mins before any expert knew about it
That's true you did report the Quentin deal, but you also had that Konerko thing too, so it balances out! :redneck

Personally I think this is all just speculation, so I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other. Getting a guy like Dursher (forgive my spelling) would mean we'd have to give up Fields which means we'd have to re-sign Crede...I'm all for it, but I'm not going to get TOO excited or put too much stock into this one way or the other.

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 04:13 PM
That's true you did report the Quentin deal, but you also had that Konerko thing too, so it balances out! :redneck

Personally I think this is all just speculation, so I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other. Getting a guy like Dursher (forgive my spelling) would mean we'd have to give up Fields which means we'd have to re-sign Crede...I'm all for it, but I'm not going to get TOO excited or put too much stock into this one way or the other.


I said the Konerko deal was being discussed and was far from being done... I wish that deal would have gone down

jsg-07
07-14-2008, 04:17 PM
Rock,

What is the story on Justin as to why he has not pitched many innings in years past. I did not realize he was 31 years old. Was he injured??? Have not really followed anything on him and had he not been such as stud this year I would not nothing about him.

As for the rumor, I say keep them coming. Right or wrong, you heard it somewhere and that is the entire reason for this forum and the biggest reason I love WSI (even though i dont post much). I can never understand why it is necessary to come down on someone. If you don't want to believe it, dont read it.

nodiggity59
07-14-2008, 04:22 PM
I could see Fields, Poreda, and Broadway beating any deal the rest of the league offering.

Then Contreras would have to go for prospects I would guess.

The bullpen would still be a little thin for my taste, given the injury concerns of Jenks, Linebrink, and Dotel, but then we'd be in pretty good shape.

I think we'll have to wait till the offseason to deal with the Thome / Konerko log jam, so a turnaround from them will be huge for this team.

GO SOX!

GAsoxfan
07-14-2008, 04:26 PM
What is the story on Justin as to why he has not pitched many innings in years past. I did not realize he was 31 years old. Was he injured??? Have not really followed anything on him and had he not been such as stud this year I would not nothing about him.

He was a reliever until this year.

jsg-07
07-14-2008, 04:27 PM
He was a reliever until this year.

Makes Sense...

Thanks,

Rockabilly
07-14-2008, 04:40 PM
Actually, I have my doubts about getting Justin..

He hasn't pitched that many innings in a season for about 5 years.. If KW is going to give up the farm to win it all this year.. Me personally would look elsewhere for a top notch starter

UofCSoxFan
07-14-2008, 04:46 PM
I've heard much more far-fetched rumors than this one.

The A's just gave up Harden for a smorghesbourgh of crap, and he's viewed as a more proven (albeit injured) commodity than The Duke (I'm not going to try to spell his last name).

Oakland has nothing at third as long as Chavez is hurt (and honestly there is no guarantee he'll be healthy ever again the way it's looking). Jack Hanahan is solid defensively and has a few doubles, but he's hitting around .200 with little home run power. Fields would be an upgrade there.

At the same time I don't feel comfortable going the rest of the year with Javy and Jose. Asking one to turn it around may be reasonable. Asking both may be asking way too much. If Floyd or Danks falter (I don't think it will happen, but they are young) we are in some big trouble.

Kenny has always been a win now guy and we'll make the future work somehow too. I mean if we loose Fields and Crede I am sure we can find a decent guy via trade or free agency at third, but I don't mind crossing that bridge when we get to it. I'm not completely sold on Fields as an everyay 3B either and the Sox may not be as well. I like the guy we got in the 3rd round of this year's draft, but he's is still just an A ball prospect, so obviously expecting him next year would be crazy.

So who knows.

kittle42
07-14-2008, 04:56 PM
I think my head would explode with all the lazy misspellings of his last name.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-14-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm not sure why the A's would trade their best pitcher. They are still in the race for their division. Yes, this was supposed to be a rebuilding year for them, but they're playing well and have good pitching. I'm skeptical of this one.

Maybe Beane is using a bait and switch for one of his other pitchers.

siugrad25
07-14-2008, 05:03 PM
Whether it's J. Duchscherer, D. Cabrera or another starting pitcher, I think it's agreed upon the majority of us that the Sox shouldn't trust the arm of Contreras in the stretch run, and that Kenny should try making a move for a starting pitcher.

As for giving up too many prospects, who knows what the 2009 season will bring. I mean heading into this season, who knew that TCQ and Ramirez would turn into cornerstones of the franchise? So I'm OK with the idea of trading Fields if it means another ace arm to go along with Buehrle, Floyd, Danks and Javy. I'm not as worried about this offseason as I was about last and let's be honest, there's a lot of teams to worry about going into the playoffs and we all know how far a strong starting rotation can take you.

UofCSoxFan
07-14-2008, 05:04 PM
I think my head would explode with all the lazy misspellings of his last name.

We could just call him El Duquisimo. (The Big Duke).

Noir
07-14-2008, 05:08 PM
Why do i have a feeling that KW's true target may not be Duchscherer or D. Cabrera, rather someone like a Cliff Lee? Common sense says otherwise, but looking at KW's track record, he has known to surprise us.

UofCSoxFan
07-14-2008, 05:09 PM
Whether it's J. Duchscherer, D. Cabrera or another starting pitcher, I think it's agreed upon the majority of us that the Sox shouldn't trust the arm of Contreras in the stretch run, and that Kenny should try making a move for a starting pitcher.

As for giving up too many prospects, who knows what the 2009 season will bring. I mean heading into this season, who knew that TCQ and Ramirez would turn into cornerstones of the franchise? So I'm OK with the idea of trading Fields if it means another ace arm to go along with Buehrle, Floyd, Danks and Javy. I'm not as worried about this offseason as I was about last and let's be honest, there's a lot of teams to worry about going into the playoffs and we all know how far a strong starting rotation can take you.

I agree with everything you said there. And to be honest, I'm really in a win now mode, as I'm not sure we are guaranteed to be this good next year. OC, Crede, and Thome may all be gone next year. Those are huge holes to fill. Floyd or Denks could regress a bit too. IF all that happens and we still have crap from PK and slightly better than crap from Swisher, we are not a very good team. Add in that JD and AJ are getting up there, you just never know. Obviously this is an extreme example, but it just goes to show that you need to win while you have a shot and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

btrain929
07-14-2008, 05:09 PM
Actually, I have my doubts about getting Justin..

He hasn't pitched that many innings in a season for about 5 years.. If KW is going to give up the farm to win it all this year.. Me personally would look elsewhere for a top notch starter

I agree. I'd prefer someone a little more proven and preferably a little younger too. This is the 1st year Justin has been this solid as a SP. Yes, he has been pretty good as a reliever, but Fields and Poreda? I think that would have rivaled the Cubs package for Harden.

UofCSoxFan
07-14-2008, 05:11 PM
Why do i have a feeling that KW's true target may not be Duchscherer or D. Cabrera, rather someone like a Cliff Lee? Common sense says otherwise, but looking at KW's track record, he has known to surprise us.

KW is the master of deception, but while it may be someone LIKE Cliff Lee, I don't think it would be THE Cliff Lee (to borrow a phrase used before with Carlos Quinten). Cleveland's ownership is already trying to stave off a mutany by it's fans for trading CC Sabathia. If they traded their next best pitcher to an in division rival, all hell might break loose.

Noir
07-14-2008, 05:14 PM
KW is the master of deception, but while it may be someone LIKE Cliff Lee, I don't think it would be THE Cliff Lee (to borrow a phrase used before with Carlos Quinten). Cleveland's ownership is already trying to stave off a mutany by it's fans for trading CC Sabathia. If they traded their next best pitcher to an in division rival, all hell might break loose.

Truthfully, if i were Cleveland, i would fleece the Sox for any decent prospects they had.

It's Dankerific
07-14-2008, 05:18 PM
Why do i have a feeling that KW's true target may not be Duchscherer or D. Cabrera, rather someone like a Cliff Lee? Common sense says otherwise, but looking at KW's track record, he has known to surprise us.

3 lefties in the starting rotation???

PorkChopExpress
07-14-2008, 05:23 PM
I could see there being talks. He is 31, is having a breakout year, and may never be this good again. BB is the master of selling high.

I could also see us scouting Blanton since he has been rumored to be on the block for a long time now.

JermaineDye05
07-14-2008, 05:42 PM
KW is the master of deception, but while it may be someone LIKE Cliff Lee, I don't think it would be THE Cliff Lee (to borrow a phrase used before with Carlos Quinten). Cleveland's ownership is already trying to stave off a mutany by it's fans for trading CC Sabathia. If they traded their next best pitcher to an in division rival, all hell might break loose.

I could see Kenny getting just about anyone. The big fish would be Bedard, but as someone said that's 3 lefties in a rotation.

WhiteSox5187
07-14-2008, 05:44 PM
I think my head would explode with all the lazy misspellings of his last name.
Another reason to make this trade!!!

btrain929
07-14-2008, 05:45 PM
I could see there being talks. He is 31, is having a breakout year, and may never be this good again. BB is the master of selling high.

I could also see us scouting Blanton since he has been rumored to be on the block for a long time now.

That could be an interesting buy-low move...

kittle42
07-14-2008, 05:50 PM
Another reason to make this trade!!!

:D:

getonbckthr
07-14-2008, 06:23 PM
when was the last time you reported a deal on this site before it happen, thats right you never did....
I guess i've never attempted it.

Noir
07-14-2008, 06:54 PM
3 lefties in the starting rotation???

And??? I wouldn't mind that, as long as they can pitch.

soxwon
07-14-2008, 06:56 PM
MMM carl Crawford go for it!!!

Tragg
07-14-2008, 08:03 PM
From what I have heard, the DRays view trading Crawford as their best option to get young starting pitching. He is considered tradeable because of Delmon Young. If the White Sox make a play, look for a three way trade with a national league playoff type team. The Sox would ship a starter (Not McCarthy) for a package that would go to TB with the Sox getting Crawford.

-otis
This must be a post from 2006. McCarthy, Delmon Young, Rays needing pitching (they need hitting).

Don't do business with Oakland, Kenny. 0 for 2 with 1 in progress so for.


Trading for Duchscherer is likely buying high - way high. He's one of a boatload of prospects they got for Haren, and now beane wants to peddle him alone for a boatload. Forget it.
Bedard might be interesting - if and only if he comes at a steep player discount, which he should.

Trading prospects for young talent is fine; but for equal or more young talent, not for a declining 30 year old with 1/2 a year or a 1.5 years left on the contract.

Lip Man 1
07-14-2008, 08:14 PM
Bedard I believe is on the DL with a shoulder issue.

Lip

Optipessimism
07-14-2008, 08:17 PM
I'd like Ducsherer or however you spell it if it doesn't cost us Fields or Jose Martinez. We have Getz and Richar as 2B but Beane just picked up Patterson so I don't think he's looking at those guys.

One thing I think Beane might bite at is Orlando Cabrera and a 4/5 starter arm like Egbert, Broadway, Richard, or McCulloch and maybe even a throw in with some possible upside like David Cook. OC would be a fitting centerpiece for Beane though because he loves to offer arbitration to players he knows he can't sign and then collect draft picks. That's his M.O. It's probably a longshot, but I'd deal OC in a heartbeat for an upgrade in the rotation. Then you shift Alexei to SS and bring up Richar or maybe Getz if the Sox really like him.

doublem23
07-14-2008, 08:31 PM
This must be a post from 2006. McCarthy, Delmon Young, Rays needing pitching (they need hitting).

Don't do business with Oakland, Kenny. 0 for 2 with 1 in progress so for.


Explain how.

jabrch
07-14-2008, 08:38 PM
The big fish would be Bedard,

Been bad and injured...I'll pass.

TheOldRoman
07-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I would stay far far away from Duchsherer. He hasn't started regularly in the majors before. He is 31 and having a breakout year. Combine his age with his history of doing nothing close to this, and I want no part of him. He seems like Gary Matthews Jr. version 2.0, except Justin didn't take roids. Then again, he is in Oakland...

Ziggy S
07-14-2008, 08:50 PM
I would stay far far away from Duchsherer. He hasn't started regularly in the majors before. He is 31 and having a breakout year. Combine his age with his history of doing nothing close to this, and I want no part of him. He seems like Gary Matthews Jr. version 2.0, except Justin didn't take roids. Then again, he is in Oakland...

Either Justin and Zito are in a real life version of Visa Versa (one of those switched identity movies from the Eighties) or Justin stole all of Barry's homegrown.

Tragg
07-14-2008, 09:41 PM
Where y'at, Jon Garland

cws05champ
07-14-2008, 10:02 PM
I would stay far far away from Duchsherer. He hasn't started regularly in the majors before. He is 31 and having a breakout year. Combine his age with his history of doing nothing close to this, and I want no part of him. He seems like Gary Matthews Jr. version 2.0, except Justin didn't take roids. Then again, he is in Oakland...
Duchscherer sat out most of 2007 with a hip injury and was on the DL this season in April with inflamed Biceps. He does seem a little fragile. He would be owed about $600K the rest of the this season ($1.2M 2008 contract) and is aribitration eligible for 2009. He would be a Free Agent in 2010.

He is a control guy that features 4 pitches (FB, Cutter, Curve, 2 seam) and is pretty efefctive when healthy. Seems like he would be a good fit with a team like Tampa. If the Sox did not have to give up Fields, Poreda types to get him...great, but I don't think that would be the case.

I'm all for being agressive but at some point you have to let some of your home grown talent grow into the major leagues.

Foulke You
07-14-2008, 10:41 PM
I'd like Ducsherer or however you spell it if it doesn't cost us Fields or Jose Martinez. We have Getz and Richar as 2B but Beane just picked up Patterson so I don't think he's looking at those guys.

One thing I think Beane might bite at is Orlando Cabrera and a 4/5 starter arm like Egbert, Broadway, Richard, or McCulloch and maybe even a throw in with some possible upside like David Cook. OC would be a fitting centerpiece for Beane though because he loves to offer arbitration to players he knows he can't sign and then collect draft picks. That's his M.O. It's probably a longshot, but I'd deal OC in a heartbeat for an upgrade in the rotation. Then you shift Alexei to SS and bring up Richar or maybe Getz if the Sox really like him.
The Sox are pretty strong up the middle right now so I'd hesitate to trade my gold glove SS in the middle of this division chase. Cabrera is a big part of why our pitching has been good. He has made some great plays in the field and has combined with Alexei Ramirez to make a nifty DP combo. Not to mention that he is the only guy in our lineup who has shown ability to hit in the leadoff spot. Orlando is no Ricky Henderson but he has done a solid job filling that role for us after Swisher failed there. If you trade OC, we are back to searching for another leadoff man. I'd only warm up to trading OC if we got a big time impact pitcher and KW was able to land another veteran 2B who can hit leadoff. (Eckstein or Roberts type) I wouldn't trust rookies Getz or Richar in a pressure packed division race.

Tragg
07-14-2008, 11:11 PM
Explain how.
How?
Durham trade= loss
Foulke trade = loss
Swisher trade = in process.

Get some more pitching from Jon Daniels. No Beaners at inflated prices off of career years please.

AzureJazzMan
07-14-2008, 11:13 PM
The Sox are pretty strong up the middle right now so I'd hesitate to trade my gold glove SS in the middle of this division chase. Cabrera is a big part of why our pitching has been good. He has made some great plays in the field and has combined with Alexei Ramirez to make a nifty DP combo. Not to mention that he is the only guy in our lineup who has shown ability to hit in the leadoff spot. Orlando is no Ricky Henderson but he has done a solid job filling that role for us after Swisher failed there. If you trade OC, we are back to searching for another leadoff man. I'd only warm up to trading OC if we got a big time impact pitcher and KW was able to land another veteran 2B who can hit leadoff. (Eckstein or Roberts type) I wouldn't trust rookies Getz or Richar in a pressure packed division race.

Well, a perfect replacement for OC would be Orlando Hudson. I would think that it's possible if we trade OC and someone like Getz for him. Both guys are Free Agents (OC and OH) after this season, and AZ is looking for some vetran presence, with a bit of pop.

From what I've heard, Stephen Drew has more than the ability to play 2nd base, so, they slide him over, and put OC in at SS.

Over here...slide Alexei back into SS and put OH in at 2nd....:gulp:Sounds good to me.

TheOldRoman
07-14-2008, 11:20 PM
Foulke trade = loss
Bull. That trade got us Neil Cotts. He did far more for us than Foulke did in his year in Oakland. The Sox wouldn't have won a World Series without Cotts having an unbelievable season.

eriqjaffe
07-14-2008, 11:27 PM
Foulke trade = blown save, loss:wink:

Tragg
07-14-2008, 11:31 PM
Bull. That trade got us Neil Cotts. He did far more for us than Foulke did in his year in Oakland. The Sox wouldn't have won a World Series without Cotts having an unbelievable season.
Nothing like hyperbole. Cotts, while good, did not have a year nearly as good as Foulke did in 2003, and he did not win the WS for us.

We went 11-1 in the playoffs.... We won the division by 6 games. He was very good, yes.
On the other hand, we lost the division in 2003 by 4 games. What do you think Foulke's 43 saves and a 2.08 ERA does for us, instead of Koch's 11 and 5.77?
How about a playoff appearance. Maybe, maybe not.

Anyway, don't trade for this guy....that's really buying high - real high.

Craig Grebeck
07-14-2008, 11:34 PM
Please no. We would overpay horribly.

doublem23
07-15-2008, 12:05 AM
Foulke trade = loss


The Foulke trade was, at worst, a push. Straight up Foulke/Koch was a loss for the Sox, but Johnson and Valentine never did anything special and as already been noted, Cotts turned in a brilliant year in 2005 and was a key piece to that championship puzzle, and by '05, Foulke was beginning to break down.

Mohoney
07-15-2008, 04:23 AM
Been bad and injured...I'll pass.

I won't. I'll buy low, rescue him from an altogether horrible situation, and watch him mow people down. Honestly, when he's right, he has better pure stuff than anybody else on this staff. Let's not bury the guy quite yet; at least listen to the price first.

It depends on how low I'm buying, though. I wouldn't include Poreda for a guy that is coming off the DL, but everybody else in the system is definitely on the table for Erik freaking Bedard.

GAsoxfan
07-15-2008, 07:35 AM
Trading for Duchscherer is likely buying high - way high. He's one of a boatload of prospects they got for Haren, and now beane wants to peddle him alone for a boatload. Forget it.
Bedard might be interesting - if and only if he comes at a steep player discount, which he should.

Trading prospects for young talent is fine; but for equal or more young talent, not for a declining 30 year old with 1/2 a year or a 1.5 years left on the contract.

Duchscherer has been with the A's since 2003. I think you're thinking of Eveland or Smith.

I agree with your post though. If the Sox are going to be giving up their best prospects, I'd rather get someone either in their 20s or with a proven track record. Justin doesn't fit into either category.

btrain929
07-15-2008, 08:37 AM
Please no. We would overpay horribly.

On one hand, I agree. But then I look at what the Cubs gave up for Harden, and if Beane likes a few people in our system that maybe aren't Top Tier prospects, maybe it's possible.

palehozenychicty
07-15-2008, 08:38 AM
Been bad and injured...I'll pass.

Been bad, injured, churlish, etc.

redsand22
07-15-2008, 09:32 AM
Why do i have a feeling that KW's true target may not be Duchscherer or D. Cabrera, rather someone like a Cliff Lee? Common sense says otherwise, but looking at KW's track record, he has known to surprise us.
This has probably been said, but the Indians wouldn't trade him to a team in the division.

Tragg
07-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Duchscherer has been with the A's since 2003. I think you're thinking of Eveland or Smith.

You're right - my mistake.
If Beane wants to give him to us, fine. Otherwise, nah.

Tampa Bay has young pitching. They need offense.
On one hand, I agree. But then I look at what the Cubs gave up for Harden, and if Beane likes a few people in our system that maybe aren't Top Tier prospects, maybe it's possible.
They got the Cubs best young pitcher, a legitimate hitter (who doesn't do a lot for me, but does a ton for Beane and statheads), a former high prospect having a terrible year.....for a pitcher who hasn't pitched a full season since 2005. What should we give for a 30 year old pitcher who spent most of his career in middle relief? Sox have been down that road before.
Don't do business with Beane; stay away from Oakland pitching.

balke
07-15-2008, 10:35 AM
I don't see how you could get Duchscherer right now without giving up something great in return. It would be smart of Beane to deal him though, as I don't really think his value will ever be higher.

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 10:55 AM
Did you say that when i gave this site the proof that my junk is bigger than your junk

Is that what you're really saying?

voodoochile
07-15-2008, 11:19 AM
Is that what you're really saying?

You really need to learn how to stay away from the personal attacks. Consider this an official warning. You want to keep posting here, find a way to play nice with others or go post somewhere else.

skottyj242
07-15-2008, 11:32 AM
:rolling:

I know. I didn't write that. WSI's inside man otis did in the 2006 offseason.

I was being an ass.

I got what you were getting at Mike.

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 12:24 PM
I'd grab Bedard in a heartbeat for the right deal. As far as us losing on those trades with BB - I think the Foulke trade was a push at worst. Sure Koch was junk, but we did get Cotts in that deal, and Foulke was very - VERY bad after 2004. How was Durham a loss? He was not going to sign with us after '02 anyway. We took a chance on Adkins and nothing came out of it. What would Durham done for us the rest of '02 anyway? We really were not going anywhere - we took a chance and it didn't work out. That happens all the time.

turners56
07-15-2008, 03:43 PM
If it's win-now mode, Kenny needs to pull this deal. If he has any vision for the future and who's going to pitch and play third in the next couple of years, then you probably shouldn't make this deal.

the1tab
07-15-2008, 05:06 PM
If it's win-now mode, Kenny needs to pull this deal. If he has any vision for the future and who's going to pitch and play third in the next couple of years, then you probably shouldn't make this deal.

Short of Gordan Beckham, what in our system makes you think we're capable of winning by building from within? Who on the current roster did we draft? Crede and Buehrle and Anderson and....

If we can convince someone to take Josh Fields and for a middle to top-of-the-rotation guy we'd be stupid to not do it.

Personally, looking at age and stuff, and considering what Coop has done with pitchers considered to be re-treads in other organizations (Thornton, Contreras, etc) I would say go after Daniel Cabrera in Baltimore. He's got electric stuff, he just has Helen Keller's perception of the strikezone. If Coop could help him avoid 2 brainfart innings per start, he'd be a 16-18 game winner w/ 180-200 Ks.

WhiteSox5187
07-15-2008, 05:32 PM
Short of Gordan Beckham, what in our system makes you think we're capable of winning by building from within? Who on the current roster did we draft? Crede and Buehrle and Anderson and....

If we can convince someone to take Josh Fields and for a middle to top-of-the-rotation guy we'd be stupid to not do it.

Personally, looking at age and stuff, and considering what Coop has done with pitchers considered to be re-treads in other organizations (Thornton, Contreras, etc) I would say go after Daniel Cabrera in Baltimore. He's got electric stuff, he just has Helen Keller's perception of the strikezone. If Coop could help him avoid 2 brainfart innings per start, he'd be a 16-18 game winner w/ 180-200 Ks.
I don't mind the idea of getting Cabrera, but sometimes I think we put too much faith in Coop. Remember he was supposed to work miracles with Sisco? That didn't turn out very well. Coop is a good pitching coach, but he can't heal the sick and cure the blind, ya know?

turners56
07-15-2008, 06:28 PM
Short of Gordan Beckham, what in our system makes you think we're capable of winning by building from within? Who on the current roster did we draft? Crede and Buehrle and Anderson and....

If we can convince someone to take Josh Fields and for a middle to top-of-the-rotation guy we'd be stupid to not do it.

Personally, looking at age and stuff, and considering what Coop has done with pitchers considered to be re-treads in other organizations (Thornton, Contreras, etc) I would say go after Daniel Cabrera in Baltimore. He's got electric stuff, he just has Helen Keller's perception of the strikezone. If Coop could help him avoid 2 brainfart innings per start, he'd be a 16-18 game winner w/ 180-200 Ks.

If Leo Mazzone can't do it, I doubt Coop can.

turners56
07-15-2008, 06:28 PM
I don't mind the idea of getting Cabrera, but sometimes I think we put too much faith in Coop. Remember he was supposed to work miracles with Sisco? That didn't turn out very well. Coop is a good pitching coach, but he can't heal the sick and cure the blind, ya know?

Look how Jose is pitching now...still inconsistent.

Rockabilly
07-15-2008, 07:34 PM
Because you have become the 2nd coming of Otis.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/askthewriter/cs-080715askmarkgonzales,1,4752066.story


I guess Mark Gonzalez must be wrong to than since, he just said the same thing i did about the Sox scouting Justin the other day...

you shouldn't bashed someone before you know any of the facts... I wouldnt make **** up on this site, so if you don't like what i report than don't read it

getonbckthr
07-15-2008, 08:03 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/askthewriter/cs-080715askmarkgonzales,1,4752066.story


I guess Mark Gonzalez must be wrong to than since, he just said the same thing i did about the Sox scouting Justin the other day...

you shouldn't bashed someone before you know any of the facts... I wouldnt make **** up on this site, so if you don't like what i report than don't read it
Its a Chicago newspaper. He probably stole it from here. :D:

Rockabilly
07-15-2008, 08:06 PM
Its a Chicago newspaper. He probably stole it from here. :D:

he probably did but i don't think he would put out there if the story wasn't true...

getonbckthr
07-15-2008, 08:07 PM
he probably did but i don't think he would put out there if the story wasn't true...
Never under-estimate the horrible reporting that is the Chicago newspaper media.
"I saw it on a White Sox site. Therefor it must be true!"

johnnyg83
07-15-2008, 08:10 PM
Been bad, injured, churlish, etc.

totally churlish. great call.

jabrch
07-15-2008, 08:26 PM
Short of Gordan Beckham, what in our system makes you think we're capable of winning by building from within? Who on the current roster did we draft? Crede and Buehrle and Anderson and....

That's only half of the equation...

We developed players in our farm that were demanded enough to get us Q, Floyd, Danks, etc. KW uses our farm system very well despite the pissing and moaning of some fans.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2008, 08:28 PM
That's only half of the equation...

We developed players in our farm that were demanded enough to get us Q, Floyd, Danks, etc. KW uses our farm system very well despite the pissing and moaning of some fans.

The Sox also developed good players who are playing elsewhere: Maggs, Lee, Rowand, Young, Sweeney, Rauch, Ring, etc.

getonbckthr
07-15-2008, 08:30 PM
The Sox also developed good players who are playing elsewhere: Maggs, Lee, Rowand, Young, Sweeney, Rauch, Ring, etc.
Good point.
Lee - got us key components towards the series in a trade.
Rowand - we got Thome
Young- we got our #2 SP.
Sweeney- Starting CF'r/1B.

Domeshot17
07-15-2008, 08:33 PM
That's only half of the equation...

We developed players in our farm that were demanded enough to get us Q, Floyd, Danks, etc. KW uses our farm system very well despite the pissing and moaning of some fans.

Thats a big difference though from this and winning from within. Within is saying Gio and Brandon and Carter would have been better off staying and being brought up then moved for their guys.

People have a legimate complaint, in the past we have drafted and developed horribly. Very few guys come up and make an impact. Anderson will never be what he should have been, our pitching is almost entirely outsourced (with the exception of Logan in bullpen and Buehrle in the rotation) and some of it is draft position, but some of it is also an unwillingness to spend in the draft.

Tragg
07-15-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't see how you could get Duchscherer right now without giving up something great in return. It would be smart of Beane to deal him though, as I don't really think his value will ever be higher.
This is exactly the sort of player and the time that Beane loves to trade.
Let us not be his suckers.

whitesox901
07-15-2008, 08:43 PM
I dunno, someone made the point that he's in his 30's and having a prime year and we dont know good he will be in the future, I think that instead of getting Duchscherer I'd rather go for someone else, and I wouldnt want to trade Broadway, he seems to be one of the few good pitchers we've got in our farm system.

EDIT: Typed Present by accident

rowand33
07-16-2008, 03:17 PM
I dunno, someone made the point that he's in his 30's and having a prime year and we dont know good he will be in the present, I think that instead of getting Duchscherer I'd rather go for someone else, and I wouldnt want to trade Broadway, he seems to be one of the few good pitchers we've got in our farm system.

Yeah, but Duchscerer does have a 2.99 career ERA and a .229 BAA in 393+ Innings. It's not like this year is unprecedented.

Given that a lot of that comes from the pen, I guess I'd be a little worried how his arm would hold up over the course of a full season.

Nevertheless, I think we could find a use for him on our staff.

Gammons Peter
07-16-2008, 04:15 PM
I hope we can pick up somebody. Jose looks finished, Javy has been bad lately and Floyd's last outing was absolutely terrible.

WhiteSox5187
07-16-2008, 05:18 PM
I hope we can pick up somebody. Jose looks finished, Javy has been bad lately and Floyd's last outing was absolutely terrible.
Javy's always been streaky, Jose frightens me but Floyd has had one really bad outting, I'm not ready to give up on him.

Gammons Peter
07-16-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm not giving up on him either, but you can never have too much pitching

thomas35forever
07-18-2008, 03:09 PM
I just heard a rumor that Sox scouts were in Toronto looking at A.J. Burnett. He may have a high strikeout total and a 10-8 record, but his 4.96 ERA leaves something to be desired. Then again, what would a rotation of three dominant lefties mean? Would Burnett be a good replacement for Contreras?

hi im skot
07-18-2008, 03:12 PM
Would Burnett be a good replacement for Contreras?

Yes.

The Immigrant
07-18-2008, 03:14 PM
Then again, what would a rotation of three dominant lefties mean?

Bats: Right
Throws: Right

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150359

thomas35forever
07-18-2008, 03:22 PM
Bats: Right
Throws: Right

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150359
Whoops.:redface:

I would've made a different assessment otherwise.

Foulke You
07-18-2008, 03:24 PM
I just heard a rumor that Sox scouts were in Toronto looking at A.J. Burnett. He may have a high strikeout total and a 10-8 record, but his 4.96 ERA leaves something to be desired. Then again, what would a rotation of three dominant lefties mean? Would Burnett be a good replacement for Contreras?
It's no secret that KW and his scouts have long coveted AJ Burnett. They had a lot of interest in him during the 2005 season when the Sox were looking for another arm to replace El Duque when "The Duke" was on the shelf with an injury. I believe the Marlins were asking for the moon and the Sox backed off. The Sox again sniffed around Burnett when he was a free agent but once word of his asking price got around, the Sox backed off again. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in Burnett and having Don Cooper try to work his mojo with him. Burnett has always been an underachiever but we've had good luck recently with maximizing young talent with good arms. I'd definitely take him over the old looking Contreras at this point.

turners56
07-18-2008, 03:26 PM
I just heard a rumor that Sox scouts were in Toronto looking at A.J. Burnett. He may have a high strikeout total and a 10-8 record, but his 4.96 ERA leaves something to be desired. Then again, what would a rotation of three dominant lefties mean? Would Burnett be a good replacement for Contreras?

Ewww, A.J. Burnett. His ERA and WHIP are really up there. He's another version of Javy with a bad medical history.

palehozenychicty
07-18-2008, 03:55 PM
Ewww, A.J. Burnett. His ERA and WHIP are really up there. He's another version of Javy with a bad medical history.

That's the thing, and his attitude isn't the greatest in the world either. Then again, it could just be Toronto and that depressing park. He can't be worse than Contreras, though.

the1tab
07-18-2008, 05:47 PM
I've got nothing against mixing it up a little to spark the team if it means bringing in a guy that's played in a sardine can in Canada and moving Contreras out of the rotation. I'm over Jose... sorry.

Any ideas if we can pay them to take Uribe, too?

turners56
07-18-2008, 05:49 PM
That's the thing, and his attitude isn't the greatest in the world either. Then again, it could just be Toronto and that depressing park. He can't be worse than Contreras, though.

More like can't be worse than Contreras recently. If Jose was sporting a ERA of 3.60 instead of 4.60, I don't think we would be as worried.

Truth of the matter is, Jose got beat up by the Cubs and Rangers on the road. Big whoop, they're the two of the best offensive teams in baseball. That's like people complaining Buehrle sucks because he had a couple of terrible starts.

Contreras isn't as bad as some of you think he is; it sure won't help that he'll be starting against the Rangers in his next start, but we'll see.

gr8mexico
07-18-2008, 06:27 PM
I wonder if there's other pitchers out there available. I wonder if the Sox made the Astros an offer they Couldnt refused for Roy Oswalt would they accept and would Oswalt accept? Maybe Josh Fields, Brian Anderson,Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda for Roy Oswalt & Geoff Blum.

turners56
07-18-2008, 06:41 PM
I wonder if there's other pitchers out there available. I wonder if the Sox made the Astros an offer they Couldnt refused for Roy Oswalt would they accept and would Oswalt accept? Maybe Josh Fields, Brian Anderson,Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda for Roy Oswalt & Geoff Blum.

Astros won't trade Oswalt. They're pitching challenged as is.

gr8mexico
07-18-2008, 06:55 PM
Astros won't trade Oswalt. Their pitching challenged as is.
The Astros have no chance winning anything this year. They should go into rebuilding mode. They have no 3rd Baseman and Clayton Richard can be a 5th starter for them next year.

Tragg
07-18-2008, 08:05 PM
AJ Burnett?
Yikes But at least he has pushed his recored to above .500 since he was last labelled "elite" in 2005.
Roy Oswalt would cost a ton, is having a mediocre year for him and has lost mph, as he nears the age of 31.
Find a Floyd or Danks. That's what Kenny's good at - finding works in process.

jabrch
07-18-2008, 08:13 PM
I wouldn't give them the equivalent of two high draft picks for AJ - and that's what they get if he opts out. I highly doubt this has legs.

rdivaldi
07-18-2008, 10:29 PM
I wonder if there's other pitchers out there available. I wonder if the Sox made the Astros an offer they Couldnt refused for Roy Oswalt would they accept and would Oswalt accept? Maybe Josh Fields, Brian Anderson,Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda for Roy Oswalt & Geoff Blum.

That's a ridiculous price to pay for a guy that is having down year & injured, plus someone we don't need.

gr8mexico
07-18-2008, 10:43 PM
That's a ridiculous price to pay for a guy that is having down year & injured, plus someone we don't need.
That's when you jump on a player like Oswalt. He is only 31 and has proven more then Duke (A's).

Tragg
07-18-2008, 11:47 PM
That's when you jump on a player like Oswalt. He is only 31 and has proven more then Duke (A's). He's proven more but declining. Perhaps it's a blip, but his mph is down. And only at a bargain price, which he won't be.
Anderson and Fields both have a lot of potential. Even if Ozzie doesn't have much use for them, they are valuable commodities. The Sox basically used Sweeney as a throw in (more excellent talent evaluation of the outfielders by the field staff); don't give away Anderson and Fields.
I would trade someone like Getz. He's getting a lot of pub and seems at about peak value to me.

nedlug
07-19-2008, 12:35 AM
What about Bedard? Is it going to be too expensive?

Bill Naharodny
07-19-2008, 02:30 AM
More like can't be worse than Contreras recently. If Jose was sporting a ERA of 3.60 instead of 4.60, I don't think we would be as worried.

Truth of the matter is, Jose got beat up by the Cubs and Rangers on the road. Big whoop, they're the two of the best offensive teams in baseball. That's like people complaining Buehrle sucks because he had a couple of terrible starts.

Contreras isn't as bad as some of you think he is; it sure won't help that he'll be starting against the Rangers in his next start, but we'll see.

The problem isn't that Jose got beat up; it's that Jose was throwing meatballs up in the zone, particularly against Texas. I don't think any pitch clipped 88, and the breaking pitches -- well -- weren't breaking. This is how he looked most of last year, kinda like a guy who'd never pitched in the majors before. He looked either broken down or mentally broken. Very, very, very strange.

Texas was the most dramatic example of this phenomenon, but he's been living it for about a month. If he continues to do so, there's really no difference between him and Danny Wright/Felix Diaz. And I say that with much affection for Jose and what he did for the Sox in '05 and the beginning of '06.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2008, 11:46 AM
Nedlug (and others)

Bedard is on the DL with an arm injury.

Lip

Medford Bobby
07-19-2008, 12:51 PM
Bedard is on the DL with an arm injury.

Lip

Man, I wonder why Bill Bavasi still bothers to wake up every morning....:o:

palehozenychicty
07-19-2008, 01:08 PM
Man, I wonder why Bill Bavasi still bothers to wake up every morning....:o:



He has to now, since he's unemployed. :D:

AWhiteSoxinNJ
07-19-2008, 09:19 PM
Bedard won't pitch off a mound till August. He will not be moved.

rdivaldi
07-19-2008, 09:42 PM
That's when you jump on a player like Oswalt. He is only 31 and has proven more then Duke (A's).

That's fine, but you don't give away a king's ransom for him.

nedlug
07-20-2008, 11:50 AM
Bedard won't pitch off a mound till August. He will not be moved.

Ouch, nm then!

TheVulture
07-21-2008, 01:21 AM
The Foulke trade was, at worst, a push. Straight up Foulke/Koch was a loss for the Sox, but Johnson and Valentine never did anything special and as already been noted, Cotts turned in a brilliant year in 2005 and was a key piece to that championship puzzle, and by '05, Foulke was beginning to break down.

Also, you have to put one in the KW column for the Miguel Olivo trade, if you ask me. Decent middle reliever for a future solid major league catcher that ultimately netted Freddy.

Sockinchisox
07-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Apparently the Score is saying the Sox are actively pursuing Duchscherer, and are willing to give up Poreda and Fields for him...

I'm inclined to believe they got this from the BP article: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7850

It's free, it just says the Sox have become very active in the last 48 hours and suggests it would be nice for the A's to get both Poreda and Fields.

JermaineDye05
07-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Apparently the Score is saying the Sox are actively pursuing Duchscherer, and are willing to give up Poreda and Fields for him...

I'm inclined to believe they got this from the BP article: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7850

It's free, it just says the Sox have become very active in the last 48 hours and suggests it would be nice for the A's to get both Poreda and Fields.

I don't know how you can trade Fields when you don't know what Crede is doing after this season. With Borass as his agent, it's difficult to see Crede Re-signing. And I :puking:at the thought of Ozzie and Kenny considering starting Uribe at 3B.

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Apparently the Score is saying the Sox are actively pursuing Duchscherer, and are willing to give up Poreda and Fields for him...

I'm inclined to believe they got this from the BP article: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7850

It's free, it just says the Sox have become very active in the last 48 hours and suggests it would be nice for the A's to get both Poreda and Fields.


they should have reported 2 weeks ago when i mention this trade possibility and no body believed me

SaltyPretzel
07-24-2008, 05:14 PM
they should have reported 2 weeks ago when i mention this trade possibility and no body believed me

Anyone know his contract status?

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Anyone know his contract status?

signed through next year..

JB98
07-24-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't know how you can trade Fields when you don't know what Crede is doing after this season. With Borass as his agent, it's difficult to see Crede Re-signing. And I :puking:at the thought of Ozzie and Kenny considering starting Uribe at 3B.

Who cares? We'll worry about 2009 when it gets here. For now, win a championship in 2008.

I'd trade Fields without even thinking twice. We won't miss a 25-year-old who is hitting .240 in AAA and strikes out every three ABs.

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:23 PM
If we trade Fields for Justin and Crede leaves, I would love to make a trade for Chone Figgins this season and he can play 3rd base next year...

btrain929
07-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Apparently the Score is saying the Sox are actively pursuing Duchscherer, and are willing to give up Poreda and Fields for him...

I'm inclined to believe they got this from the BP article: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7850

It's free, it just says the Sox have become very active in the last 48 hours and suggests it would be nice for the A's to get both Poreda and Fields.

I would ****ing hope not. If we are giving up those 2 in the same deal, I'd like someone with a more proven track record then this 1 year wonder SP.

hi im skot
07-24-2008, 05:29 PM
If we trade Fields for Justin and Crede leaves, I would love to make a trade for Chone Figgins this season and he can play 3rd base next year...

This again?!?

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:31 PM
This again?!?


Chone can played 3rd and be our leadoff hitter next year.. according to some reports here in CA if the Angels acquire Holliday, Figgins will be going to the bench

The Immigrant
07-24-2008, 05:32 PM
I'd trade Fields without even thinking twice. We won't miss a 25-year-old who is hitting .240 in AAA and strikes out every three ABs.

I'm sure plenty of Arizona fans were saying the same thing about Quentin last year when (as a 25-year old) he was hitting .214 and striking out every fourth at bat. I'm not saying that Fields will be as good as Quentin, but it would be foolish to trade the only impact player in our minors, especially when his trade value could not be lower.

Jimmy Piersall
07-24-2008, 05:33 PM
If we trade Fields for Justin and Crede leaves, I would love to make a trade for Chone Figgins this season and he can play 3rd base next year...

Isn't Choney a UFA at the end of this year ? i could be wrong but if he is,let's trade jack squat and just sign him.

btrain929
07-24-2008, 05:37 PM
Isn't Choney a UFA at the end of this year ? i could be wrong but if he is,let's trade jack squat and just sign him.

I'm not positive but I'm prettttttty sure his contract is thru '09. Maybe it's Brian Roberts I'm thinking of, but I thought Chone was through '09 too.

oeo
07-24-2008, 05:37 PM
I don't know how you can trade Fields when you don't know what Crede is doing after this season. With Borass as his agent, it's difficult to see Crede Re-signing. And I :puking:at the thought of Ozzie and Kenny considering starting Uribe at 3B.

You guys need to separate the actual rumors from what the writer speculates. Kenny isn't going to deal Poreda and Fields for this guy. He knows what he's doing...have faith.

The Immigrant
07-24-2008, 05:37 PM
Isn't Choney a UFA at the end of this year ?

He's not. The 2009 free agent class for third basemen consists of Crede, Ensberg, Koskie and Norton, G. But hey, let's trade Fields now because he strikes out a lot!

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:46 PM
A report here in the Bay area is that the Sox want both Duch and Street for this season and will trade Fields, Floyd and several top pitching prospects.

It comes from the same person who reported this possible trade several weeks ago

oeo
07-24-2008, 05:52 PM
A report here in the Bay area is that the Sox want both Duch and Street for this season and will trade Fields, Floyd and several top pitching prospects.

It comes from the same person who reported this possible trade several weeks ago

We have several top pitching prospects? Who, Poreda?

I do think if the opportunity is there to sell high on Floyd, we should take it. I think he'll be a good bottom of the rotation guy, but nothing like what he was doing earlier in the year.

Rockabilly
07-24-2008, 05:54 PM
I would think Poerda would be one and maybe Broadway the other, but thats just my guess

Sockinchisox
07-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Fields not in Charlotte's lineup.

Of course he could be hurt again.

sox1970
07-24-2008, 05:56 PM
I would think Poerda would be one and maybe Broadway the other, but thats just my guess

They were saying on Boers and Bernstein--Fields and Poreda for Duchscherer.

Trading Floyd? Not sure I'd do that for those guys. Would be funny if we got Gio back again.

btrain929
07-24-2008, 05:56 PM
A report here in the Bay area is that the Sox want both Duch and Street for this season and will trade Fields, Floyd and several top pitching prospects.

It comes from the same person who reported this possible trade several weeks ago

Jeez, that could get nutty. Might as well call them the Oakland Baronknights with the number of prospects they'd have that used to be here.

I'd still rather try to blow a team away for a more proven, younger starter. If we're gonna trade Fields, Poreda, Richard, Link, or whoever these teams want, I'd rather get a Matt Cain, Chad Billingsley ish type pitcher. Not saying that would or will happen, but that's what I would shoot for. Dusch has 1 good year under his belt as a SP and is already 31.

Our backup plan could be to continue having KW cherry picking 1st rd picks like Floyd and Danks and having them flourish under Coop :D:

JB98
07-24-2008, 06:00 PM
I knew all the people who love prospects would be in tears at the mere thought of trading Josh Fields.

So predictable. Why can't you people understand that no one cares about 2009 right now?

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2008, 06:01 PM
wow, that's a haul to give up. But prospects are prospects as we all now.

This team needs to win now.

I wonder if a Crede deal will follow once Fields is traded?

getonbckthr
07-24-2008, 06:01 PM
I just puked in the toilet. At first I thought maybe the cheese was rotten. Then I realized it was the idea of Fields and Poreda for DUchscherer, also the idea of Floyd for only Street.

getonbckthr
07-24-2008, 06:03 PM
I knew all the people who love prospects would be in tears at the mere thought of trading Josh Fields.

So predictable. Why can't you people understand that no one cares about 2009 right now?
We don't need a 1 year wonder in Duchscherer for the price of our third basemen for the next 7 years. If we are trading Fields it better be for a guy with god damned track record. Remember James Baldwin came out of no where for 1/2 to 3/4 of a season.

JB98
07-24-2008, 06:09 PM
We don't need a 1 year wonder in Duchscherer for the price of our third basemen for the next 7 years. If we are trading Fields it better be for a guy with god damned track record. Remember James Baldwin came out of no where for 1/2 to 3/4 of a season.

What if the "one-year wonder" helps lead to a White Sox World Series winner in 2008? He does lead the damn league in ERA, right?

**** the future. It's not promised. And I'm not convinced that Josh Fields is going to be anything more than an average player.

This thread reminds me of the day Freddy Garcia was acquired. Tears of unfathomable sorrow were shed at the loss of little Miggy Olivo, who was going to be our catcher for the next seven years. And Jeremy Reed, the leadoff hitter the Sox have been lacking for years.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-24-2008, 06:13 PM
Losing Fields and Poreda would be tough to swallow, but with the deals that Kenny made to get Quentin and signing Ramirez, I'd support any move he made. He knows what he is doing. Plus Fields hasn't looked too well in Charlotte, and if I remember correctly, Poreda hasn't been striking out as many people as he should.

oeo
07-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I would think Poerda would be one and maybe Broadway the other, but thats just my guess

In what universe is Broadway considered a top prospect? The guy can't even master AAA.

oeo
07-24-2008, 06:19 PM
What if the "one-year wonder" helps lead to a White Sox World Series winner in 2008? He does lead the damn league in ERA, right?

**** the future. It's not promised. And I'm not convinced that Josh Fields is going to be anything more than an average player.

This thread reminds me of the day Freddy Garcia was acquired. Tears of unfathomable sorrow were shed at the loss of little Miggy Olivo, who was going to be our catcher for the next seven years. And Jeremy Reed, the leadoff hitter the Sox have been lacking for years.

Well, trading Fields could effect this year, also. Crede has been struggling for the past month...now he's been out a couple of games with back stiffness. What if his back isn't as good as we think?

Maybe it's just coincidental, but Crede's performance has been terrible of late. Trade Fields, and we could end up with Uribe as our starting third baseman. Or, if that Red Sox deal goes through, who knows?

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Justin Duschwhatever didn't look good at the All-Star game, but that was facing all-star hitters. He also looked very hittable (lots of hard-hit outs) against the Sox at the Cell, but guess what? He still ended out-pitching No-Hit Javy, so it's a testament to his pitching skills with lesser stuff....

Anyway, Duschwhateverer for Poreda and Fields? I think it maybe the case of Sox

A) not believing Poreda will be ready until 2010.
B) not beliving Poreda is talented enough to ever break the Matt Thornton comparisons and develop reliable secondary arsenal.

If you're giving away top-line prospects, then you're better off going all the way and getting Halladay.

As for the other rumour: actual proven, dirt-cheap starter Floyd for overrated reliever Street? Makes no sense unless Sox think that Floyd's unspectacular form since his excellent start is due to some arm problems that stem from those nasty breaking pitches he throws

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2008, 06:23 PM
Figgins is eligible for arbitration in 2009.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2008, 06:24 PM
Where there is smoke, there may be fire. KW is busy working the phones trying to improve the club. Perhaps nothing will happen, but KW is working it.

btrain929
07-24-2008, 06:28 PM
When you take history into consideration, the bottom line is: since we're hearing about it, there's about a 90% chance it won't happen.

I think the old theory is that by the time we/beat reporters hear about deals, it's already 3 days old. If a deal goes down, I'm sure it'll be something we never heard of or something we didn't expect.

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 06:29 PM
**** the future. It's not promised. And I'm not convinced that Josh Fields is going to be anything more than an average player.

.


Not that I disagree vehemently with the principle above, but what you're also missing is the following:

BASEBALL PLAYOFFS ARE, FOR THE MOST PART, UNFORECASTABLE; ANYTHING GOES.


You look at the 2003 Cubs who had Prior-Zambrano-Wood with some amazing (for Juiceball Era) 2nd-half performaces that year; even Berroid Bonds struggled to make contact against them. So you'd think Cubs were shoe-ins for World Series title, right? Not so fast, as it turned out. In fact, if Bobby Cox had the presence of mind to start line-drive spraying reliable fielding Julio Franco at 1B in place of the godawful Robert Fick who arguably cost Atlanta both Game 1 and Game 3... Cubs probably wouldn't have even made it out of NLDS that year.

getonbckthr
07-24-2008, 06:33 PM
What if the "one-year wonder" helps lead to a White Sox World Series winner in 2008? He does lead the damn league in ERA, right?

**** the future. It's not promised. And I'm not convinced that Josh Fields is going to be anything more than an average player.

This thread reminds me of the day Freddy Garcia was acquired. Tears of unfathomable sorrow were shed at the loss of little Miggy Olivo, who was going to be our catcher for the next seven years. And Jeremy Reed, the leadoff hitter the Sox have been lacking for years.
Garcia had a track record what does Deutcherererererererererererer have?

KyWhiSoxFan
07-24-2008, 06:40 PM
I don't know what other teams think of Fields and how highly he may be valued, but frankly, he has not been getting the job done at AAA.

He is a strikeout machine. If you can't put the ball into play, you're in trouble as a hitter.

This year, he's batting .248 and has a lot more strikeouts than hits. In 222 official ABs at Charlotte, Fields has 55 hits and 77 Ks. He has 25 BBs, 9 HRs, 30 RBIs in 59 games. Counting the 25 BB and the official ABs (I don't know how many sacrifices he has to also include in total ABs), he is striking out 31.2% of the time. That is not good against pitching inferior to what he would see in the major.

Yes, he had good stats while with the Sox last year, but I really don't have much confidence he would be anything more than what he is today in AAA if he were to be called up to the Sox this year or next year. He has not made any progress. It would seem that his stats could be easily found in a lot of other players in the offseason.

If you can turn Fields' stats into a starting pitcher like Duchscherer by throwing in someone like Broadway, you have to do that trade. If the A's are asking for a lot more than that, that may be another issue, depending on who you're talking about.

I'm sure Beane is looking for a replacement for Chavez, who's making $11.5 million a year. So maybe there is something to these rumors.

Adele_H
07-24-2008, 07:07 PM
Fields He is a strikeout machine. If you can't put the ball into play, you're in trouble as a hitter.

.

That's the thing that concerns a lot of folks with Fields. It's not as he's 21 years old and Sox have healthy Crede signed through 2009, where they can exercise more patience.

It's not a question of Fields not being fluid or quick enough which IMO was Joe Borchard's biggest problem (for all his Stanford smarts, hard work and LTP strenght, it seemed his brain was wired at football speed and he lacked that natural fluidity/instincts at the plate).

To me, it's clear that Fields's pitch recognition and discipline/coachability are lagging. You can maybe correct the latter, but the former is much tougher to deal with at his age.

Couple that with his lack of defensive and baserunning prowess, and it's not hard to see Sox growing impatient/disenchanted with him.

JB98
07-24-2008, 08:15 PM
Garcia had a track record what does Deutcherererererererererererer have?

Two All-Star appearances. He's a quality pitcher. I'll take a quality pitcher over a 3B any day.

Tragg
07-24-2008, 09:18 PM
Josh Fields is 25 years old. In his first ML stint, he had a better slugging percentage than Dye, AJ and 10 points below Konerko. His slg last year was better than Alexei, Swither or Crede have this year.
Yea, he's worthless. Let's trade him for a 30+ year old career middle reliever.

Thank GOD Carlos Quentin hit in week 1.

JB98
07-24-2008, 09:29 PM
Josh Fields is 25 years old. In his first ML stint, he had a better slugging percentage than Dye, AJ and 10 points below Konerko. His slg last year was better than Alexei, Swither or Crede have this year.
Yea, he's worthless. Let's trade him for a 30+ year old career middle reliever.

Thank GOD Carlos Quentin hit in week 1.

For the 1,000th time, we're not playing for the future. We're playing for 2008. Duchscherer can help us far more this year than Josh Fields.

I don't want to lose the division because Jose Contreras can't cut it anymore. Duchscherer has a 2.99 career ERA. Think he could help us? I do.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2008, 09:43 PM
Josh Fields is 25 years old. In his first ML stint, he had a better slugging percentage than Dye, AJ and 10 points below Konerko. His slg last year was better than Alexei, Swither or Crede have this year.
Yea, he's worthless. Let's trade him for a 30+ year old career middle reliever.

Thank GOD Carlos Quentin hit in week 1.


You ever heard of giving something to get something?

What other tokens does Kenny have in the farm to play with?

Foulke You
07-25-2008, 01:21 AM
I knew all the people who love prospects would be in tears at the mere thought of trading Josh Fields.

So predictable. Why can't you people understand that no one cares about 2009 right now?
I'm with you JB98. Go for it all this year. The goal every year is to win the World Series and this team has a chance to do it. Nothing is guaranteed in baseball. Just because we're contending this year doesn't mean that '09 will be the same. Look at the '08 Tribe and the '07 White Sox as examples of what can happen in the span of 1 season. Kenny Willams and Rick Hahn aren't idiots. If they trade Fields, I'm sure they have a plan on how to replace Crede in '09 if he leaves via free agency. Keep your eyes on the prize folks:

http://www.sportznutz.com/mlb/2004_post_season/images/world_series_trophy.jpg