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View Full Version : I say no Fan Voting for All Star Game


EuroSox35
07-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Does anyone really feel unique or a sense of pride for filling out a ballot? Or, will anyone feel any different if they're never able to vote for the ASG again? Screw relying on which team's fans can write the better script to screw with MLB.com's ballot. Or whoever's teams fans can outnumber another team.

Managers should pick the starters and pitchers. Players should vote the reserves

People who don't agree will say 'it's the fan game'. Well, if you want to buy that BS, the fan still benefits by seeing the most deserving guys go at it in a one of a kind game. All of MLB should be 'the fan's game', you know all the sucking up that goes on 'Without you guys we wouldn't have a job', but we don't get to vote on free agents or trades.

Daver
07-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Just do away with the All Star game.

Brian26
07-11-2008, 07:46 PM
Just do away with the All Star game.

All of the charm that used to exist with the All-Star Game has been completely erased by satellite/cable tv and interleague play.

Daver
07-11-2008, 07:50 PM
All of the charm that used to exist with the All-Star Game has been completely erased by satellite/cable tv and interleague play.

The charm was lost years ago, the whole thing went completely into the toilet when Bud decided it should count.

Brian26
07-11-2008, 08:15 PM
The charm was lost years ago, the whole thing went completely into the toilet when Bud decided it should count.

Not sure how far back you're taking it, but I thought it was still pretty electric when Freddie Lynn hit that grand slam off Hammaker. Maybe one of the last great moments...that and Bo's homer in '87 with Reagan doing commentary.

soxpride724
07-11-2008, 08:34 PM
If you are going to award the home field advantage for the winner, fans should not be allowed to vote. The players should be voting if that is what is up for stakes.

The whole All Star Game is just another way to make money, nothing special about it anymore.:whiner:

Lip Man 1
07-11-2008, 10:55 PM
I agree no fans vote unless MLB can come up with a way like in elections, you can vote one time only...period, no exceptions.

Lip

TDog
07-11-2008, 11:33 PM
I remember when All-Star voting was returned to the fans in 1970. I don't think it's so bad. If you consider that the players are the element in this year's voting that are responsible for not putting Pierzynski on the team in favor of a light-hitting catcher, I'm not so sure the players are serious enough about the voting to make a difference.

FarWestChicago
07-11-2008, 11:39 PM
The charm was lost years ago, the whole thing went completely into the toilet when Bud decided it should count.:tool

I love tie games. I'm quite Euro you know.

jenn2080
07-11-2008, 11:45 PM
Not no voting, but limited voting.

I think that their votes should count as maybe 50% of the voting.

Railsplitter
07-12-2008, 06:44 AM
I remember when All-Star voting was returned to the fans in 1970. I'm not so sure the players are serious enough about the voting to make a difference.

Choosing Veritek over A.J. is a sign players are more interested in voting in their buddies.

harwar
07-12-2008, 06:54 AM
The MLB all star game has now gone the way of the other major sports.It has been a joke for awhile now.
The all star break is a good time for most players,and quite a few fans,to get away from the game for a few days ..

StepsInSC
07-12-2008, 08:19 AM
The fans did a much better job in selecting players than the players themselves did.

Juice16
07-12-2008, 08:23 AM
I have been a fan of the all star game since I was old enough to know what was going on. It has always meant a lot for me to see players from my favorite team become an all star. I have been opposed to the fan vote since I was a youth because I got tired of seeing guys voted in on name and not stats. I want a true all star game where the actual all stars of the first half represent each league. The only reason I'm in favor of Bud's decision for it to count is because I would like the game to be taken seriously.

cws05champ
07-12-2008, 08:52 AM
I agree they should do away with the fan voting especially with the unbalenced media coverage of ceratin teams. Also it should not count for HF adv in the world series...that is just stupid. It should be based solely on records of the two teams playing.

You want to make it interesting to the players to win. Let the winning teams players take home a large portion of the gate and $$ from the game. You don't think $$ would motivate these guys to want to win?

MinnieMinoso
07-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Fans,managers, and players are all prejudiced. Figure out a formula for a computer to pick the best players about one week before the game.

soltrain21
07-12-2008, 01:24 PM
Fans,managers, and players are all prejudiced. Figure out a formula for a computer to pick the best players about one week before the game.


A computer is really needed? Its 50 some players. Just have some dudes in a room and pick them. It isn't that hard.

Rockabilly
07-12-2008, 01:34 PM
I think the AL and NL President should pick the all stars..

Jason82807
07-12-2008, 01:34 PM
I think the fans should vote on if fans should vote for the all-star game:D:

Daver
07-12-2008, 01:47 PM
I think the AL and NL President should pick the all stars..

Bud Selig did away with those positions years ago, they posed a threat to his absolute power over MLB.

Rockabilly
07-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Bud Selig did away with those positions years ago, they posed a threat to his absolute power over MLB.


I forget all about that...

WhiteSoxJunkie
07-14-2008, 06:28 PM
Figure out a formula for a computer to pick the best players about one week before the game.

Well that did work for college football.

AzureJazzMan
07-14-2008, 11:42 PM
I have bandied this about for several years now...I like the idea that the players, and coaches/management put the team together for the most part.

Then allow the fans to select the starting 9...Beyond that, let the fans vote for 1 pitcher and one bench player.

It should appease all parties involved, and would make for an entertaining game. :D:

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2008, 01:17 AM
It seemed to be more equitable before Internet voting. Now, the entire nation of Japan votes for Ichiro, and fan bases "stuff ballot boxes" for their teams. Of course, it's a giant popularity contest. But it's also the most popular "All Star game" among the four major sports.

Here's how I would "re-mix" the All-Star voting process:

Fan voting: Each team's fan base gets to vote for one player on that team to be that team's ASG representative. For example, Sox fans could vote for one Sox player. Now, if Ichiro fans want to stuff the ballot box for Ichiro, it's only other Mariners fans who have to contend with them. Red Sox and Cubs and Yankees fans no longer would be able to dominate the voting for all teams: they would only be able to spam their own team's vote totals. Finally, voting should be tracked by both e-mail address and IP address, so that each IP and e-mail address could only vote once. So there's 14 AL players and 16 NL players.

Player voting: Then, allow each player to vote for one candidate who plays the same position (being forbidden to vote for oneself). A player like Lance Berkman, who plays multiple positions, would have to pick one position from which to vote (he could choose to declare himself as an LF and vote among all other eligible, declared NL LFs, or could choose to vote as a 1B and vote among all other eligible, declared NL 1Bs). Starting pitchers would pick starters and relievers would pick relievers and likewise would not be allowed to vote for teammates. AL DHs (who declare as DHs) would vote for a DH (regardless of whether or not the game is played in an AL park with a DH). That's 11 more players for the AL (25) and 10 more for the NL (26).

Manager's choice: Finally, the respective managers get to choose the remaining players for each squad. If rosters are set at 32, the AL manager would get to pick 7 more players and the NL manager would get to pick 6 more players. This would give them much more flexibility to build their roster the way they want, without regard for having to pick a lesser player just to make sure each team was represented. Managers also would have the choice to choose their lineup from among all their players.

The "Frater Plan" ensures that:

1. All fan bases have an equal voice and each team's best or most popular player is chosen;

2. The best player at each position is selected for the team;

3. Managers can complete a roster to suit their objectives and can name their starting lineup.

chisoxfanatic
07-15-2008, 01:44 AM
I actually like that idea, Frater!

If not that, at least limit the fan voting to ballots cast at actual MLB games if you're gonna stick with having fans vote.

SOXPHILE
07-15-2008, 09:00 AM
The fans should still have a vote in who gets into the All Star Game. But they need to get rid of the whole "It Counts" thing. The game always was and is meant to be a fun, meaningless exhibition game, put on for the fans enjoyment. You can't have something as important as who gets home field advantage in the World Series determined by something like this. It is absolutely asinine that a team(s) can play a 162 game season, going through division races and playoffs, get to the World Series, and have home field advantage determined by which team won the All Star game. A team that was largely assembled through a popularity contest and name recognition. If it's going to "count", then you can't have the fans voting. Why was this done ? Oh, that's right, because Who's Your' Bud Selig was upset that the 2002 game ended in a tie. He wanted a resolution. If you're that upset and angry that an All Star game ended in a tie, an exhibition game, then you are a complete baseball idiot. Return the game to what it always had been until that blithering asshat Selig decided to stick his seedy little fingers into the thing - a little 3-4 day break from the season, with a fun, harmless exhibition game.

pierzynski07
07-15-2008, 09:14 AM
The fans should still have a vote in who gets into the All Star Game. But they need to get rid of the whole "It Counts" thing. The game always was and is meant to be a fun, meaningless exhibition game, put on for the fans enjoyment. You can't have something as important as who gets home field advantage in the World Series determined by something like this. It is absolutely asinine that a team(s) can play a 162 game season, going through division races and playoffs, get to the World Series, and have home field advantage determined by which team won the All Star game. A team that was largely assembled through a popularity contest and name recognition. If it's going to "count", then you can't have the fans voting. Why was this done ? Oh, that's right, because Who's Your' Bud Selig was upset that the 2002 game ended in a tie. He wanted a resolution. If you're that upset and angry that an All Star game ended in a tie, an exhibition game, then you are a complete baseball idiot. Return the game to what it always had been until that blithering asshat Selig decided to stick his seedy little fingers into the thing - a little 3-4 day break from the season, with a fun, harmless exhibition game.
Bud can never catch a break, can he? And BTW, this method is MUCH better than alternating every year, or using some sort of other record.

soxrme
07-15-2008, 09:15 AM
I do not mind the fan voting but only one vote per fan and nobody from Japan should be allowed to vote on our all star game

Lip Man 1
07-15-2008, 09:31 AM
Pier:

You might want to read this. I happen to agree with the thinking:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/07/selig-must-have.html

Lip

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-15-2008, 09:38 AM
I agree no fans vote unless MLB can come up with a way like in elections, you can vote one time only...period, no exceptions.

Lip

I think all voting for the ASG should be revert back to balloting at GAMES only; if you don't go to a game you don't vote. No 25 emails x 25 voting at home BS that's been going on the last few years.

doublem23
07-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Bud can never catch a break, can he? And BTW, this method is MUCH better than alternating every year, or using some sort of other record.

:?:

It's actually MUCH worse.

thedudeabides
07-15-2008, 10:04 AM
Another idiotic thing I heard Bud say he is using this format is players of old have recently found the All-Star game boring. Who cares? He said there was a player who played the whole game with a broken elbow, and brought up Pete Rose's collision at the plate.

These players today and their teams have too much money at stake to be playing that way. Nobody even plays the whole game anymore.

As far as the logistics excuse referring to the hotels, I can't see how it matters. You still have very little time between the championship series and world series and don't know who is in the game until those series are completed. It's baffling. If your multi-billion dollar organization can't figure this out, hire someone who can. Idiots.

What about the suggestion of inter-league play determining the home field advantage? At least all of the teams will be involved and not just select players. :shrug:

soxfan13
07-15-2008, 10:51 AM
Bud can never catch a break, can he? And BTW, this method is MUCH better than alternating every year, or using some sort of other record.

So what a team does in in a 162 game marathon season should be completely disregarded when it comes to home field for the World Series?

SOXPHILE
07-15-2008, 11:25 AM
Bud can never catch a break, can he? And BTW, this method is MUCH better than alternating every year, or using some sort of other record.


He doesn't deserve one. He is hands down, the most godawful commissioner of all four pro sports leagues. And I say this knowing about Gary Bettmans' track record over in the NHL. Selig should go back to selling used cars.

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 12:48 PM
I remember when All-Star voting was returned to the fans in 1970. I don't think it's so bad. If you consider that the players are the element in this year's voting that are responsible for not putting Pierzynski on the team in favor of a light-hitting catcher, I'm not so sure the players are serious enough about the voting to make a difference.

I really don't agree fully with this. Sure, Varitek does not deserve to be there, but tell me something. Who deserved it more this year: A.J. or Navarro?

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 12:53 PM
It seemed to be more equitable before Internet voting. Now, the entire nation of Japan votes for Ichiro, and fan bases "stuff ballot boxes" for their teams. Of course, it's a giant popularity contest. But it's also the most popular "All Star game" among the four major sports.

Here's how I would "re-mix" the All-Star voting process:

Fan voting: Each team's fan base gets to vote for one player on that team to be that team's ASG representative. For example, Sox fans could vote for one Sox player. Now, if Ichiro fans want to stuff the ballot box for Ichiro, it's only other Mariners fans who have to contend with them. Red Sox and Cubs and Yankees fans no longer would be able to dominate the voting for all teams: they would only be able to spam their own team's vote totals. Finally, voting should be tracked by both e-mail address and IP address, so that each IP and e-mail address could only vote once. So there's 14 AL players and 16 NL players.

Player voting: Then, allow each player to vote for one candidate who plays the same position (being forbidden to vote for oneself). A player like Lance Berkman, who plays multiple positions, would have to pick one position from which to vote (he could choose to declare himself as an LF and vote among all other eligible, declared NL LFs, or could choose to vote as a 1B and vote among all other eligible, declared NL 1Bs). Starting pitchers would pick starters and relievers would pick relievers and likewise would not be allowed to vote for teammates. AL DHs (who declare as DHs) would vote for a DH (regardless of whether or not the game is played in an AL park with a DH). That's 11 more players for the AL (25) and 10 more for the NL (26).

Manager's choice: Finally, the respective managers get to choose the remaining players for each squad. If rosters are set at 32, the AL manager would get to pick 7 more players and the NL manager would get to pick 6 more players. This would give them much more flexibility to build their roster the way they want, without regard for having to pick a lesser player just to make sure each team was represented. Managers also would have the choice to choose their lineup from among all their players.

The "Frater Plan" ensures that:

1. All fan bases have an equal voice and each team's best or most popular player is chosen;

2. The best player at each position is selected for the team;

3. Managers can complete a roster to suit their objectives and can name their starting lineup.

That - is - awesome. I really do like it. It works and is fair - but most importantly, Jason Varitek would not make the squad. The question I have for you Padre - is what if the fans vote in a Manny - and Manny acts like Manny and decides not to show up?

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 12:58 PM
So what a team does in in a 162 game marathon season should be completely disregarded when it comes to home field for the World Series?

You know - I think so. I actually like that the winner of the All Star game gets home field advantage - mostly because the American League has not lost since 2001. That said, the World Series has far too many corporate entities attending anyway. I honestly felt like real Sox fans were only in the upperdeck and the outfield at game two anyway... In other words - don't a lot of big wigs receive primo tix for World Series games - regardless of where it's played?

Daver
07-15-2008, 01:04 PM
He doesn't deserve one. He is hands down, the most godawful commissioner of all four pro sports leagues. And I say this knowing about Gary Bettmans' track record over in the NHL. Selig should go back to selling used cars.

He is a pretty successful godawful commissioner though, he has absolute and total control over MLB, and the umpires union, no other commissioner has ever done that.

soxfan13
07-15-2008, 01:23 PM
You know - I think so. I actually like that the winner of the All Star game gets home field advantage - mostly because the American League has not lost since 2001. That said, the World Series has far too many corporate entities attending anyway. I honestly felt like real Sox fans were only in the upperdeck and the outfield at game two anyway... In other words - don't a lot of big wigs receive primo tix for World Series games - regardless of where it's played?

If the All Star game is going to erase everything that a good team does during the long season then the fans should have nothing to do with the selection process. As far as the World Series itself, Yes there is alot of corporate entities attending but I think home field is more then having your fans at the game(the season ticket holders still get seats plus the separate box office sales) . Its the players being able to go home afterward to familiar enviorment instead of hanging out in a hotel room.

PennStater98r
07-15-2008, 01:26 PM
If the All Star game is going to erase everything that a good team does during the long season then the fans should have nothing to do with the selection process. As far as the World Series itself, Yes there is alot of corporate entities attending but I think home field is more then having your fans at the game(the season ticket holders still get seats plus the separate box office sales) . Its the players being able to go home afterward to familiar enviorment instead of hanging out in a hotel room.

Agreed on the fans having nothing to do with selecting players - as it's done today. I really like Father P's thoughts though. It would really force you to select one of if not the best player on your team as a player.

soxfan13
07-15-2008, 01:38 PM
Agreed on the fans having nothing to do with selecting players - as it's done today. I really like Father P's thoughts though. It would really force you to select one of if not the best player on your team as a player.

This isnt a fun debate we actually agree:gulp:

STRETCH!!!
07-15-2008, 05:33 PM
for what it is worth, here are a few more thoughts

I don't mind the winner getting home field advantage - most teams are still in it at the all star break and thus the outcome of the game can potentially impact their lives, and I think it adds an element of seriousness to the game. I think it makes the managers manage the game seriously as well. So, I say "why not" - alternating home field advantage every year is only fair if the same two teams make it every year, which doesn't happen. So, why should your team not get the 4-3 advantage because it was an off year? Might as well make the HF advantage contingent on the all-star game.

Letting each team's fans pick its own all star, as suggested by a person earlier, could result in the National League having 16 outfielders on the team - right? I don't think it is such a great idea.

I wish members of the media pselected the team, as is done for the HOF - I think you'd get the best teams year after year if those that cover baseball for a living made the selections, and I am one of those fans who likes to see guys on the all star team who have had the hot first half.

I know it shouldn't matter, but after watching the American League lose game after game after game when I was a kid, I still get a kick out of seeing the AL win. It defies logic that these games should have had such big winning and losing streaks over the years, even though I do buy the argument that the NL was the better league in the 60s and 70s because they were more progressive in terms of recruiting and welcoming players from minority backgrounds (thus, had a bigger talent pool from which to draw). Still, even with that, winning 19 out of 20 games? Incredible - especially considering how close so many of those games were. If the AL can win 4 more in this streak and tie the all time series up, then maybe I will be at peace and can join my more rationale brethren on this Board and no longer care about the outcome.

Till then, Go AL!

whitem0nkey
07-15-2008, 05:57 PM
I agree with a lot of the comments about how bad its but its still the best all-star game out of NFL, NBA, and MLB.

NFL has totally diff rules and your limited as what you can do, heck you get the ball back if its a blow out.....and this list of problems is long

NBA can be good the last 4 min if its a close score, other than that its just an offensive show.

where the MLB all star game is closer to an actual regular season (even when it did not count).

and the MLB game is easier to fix than the other two with the faults it has.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2008, 08:15 PM
That - is - awesome. I really do like it. It works and is fair - but most importantly, Jason Varitek would not make the squad. The question I have for you Padre - is what if the fans vote in a Manny - and Manny acts like Manny and decides not to show up?

That's the Red Sox fans' predicament then. Perhaps they should elect a different player.

As for the World Series home field advantage: Just base it on overall AL v. NL interleague record in that year. This year (just as in many previous years), the AL thrashed the NL. So give the AL the home field advantage. They earned it in real, not contrived, competition.

The NL doesn't like it? How about you start winning more games, then?

Britt Burns
07-15-2008, 08:16 PM
I agree no fans vote unless MLB can come up with a way like in elections, you can vote one time only...period, no exceptions.

Lip

You ever been to Florida Lip?:smile:

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Letting each team's fans pick its own all star, as suggested by a person earlier, could result in the National League having 16 outfielders on the team - right? I don't think it is such a great idea.

First, I would do away with the ASG determining home field advantage. That would go instead to the league with the greater number of overall interleague wins within a season. If the NL doesn't like it (since they've gotten their butts kicked in interleague play for a number of years), then perhaps they should start to be better and win more.

Second, now that the ASG result ultimately has no affect on WS home field advantage, so what if the fans vote for 16 NL outfielders? Player voting still would make sure that every position was filled, and managers would fill out the 32-man rosters. If there is a huge surplus at one position, use the surplus position players as pinch hitters.

StepsInSC
07-17-2008, 02:22 PM
If you really believe in no fan voting, will you participate in this?

http://allstarsabotage.blogspot.com/