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lzerante
07-10-2008, 10:54 PM
Konerko in my mind is an enigma. I have never felt so many mixed emotion to a player.

The Bad,

He's slow, prone to long slumps, remember first half of '03?, and doesn't give the fan a lot to think about as a lively personality.

The Good,

When he's on, there's no better fast ball hitter in the game, defense at times, albiet absolutely not tonight, can be surprisingly stellar. (He'll throw some leather once in a while although tonight I'd like to have his head for missing that DP ball).

Anyway, I wanted to see if anyone was struggling with Paulie like I have been this year. It's more than love/hate I just like a young child am very confused. HA.

On an unrelated note, Me and my cousin ran into Konerko at the 2003 All Star game and he was a total jerk, but considering his first half performance this should have been expected, I also pose the question, what has your experience with Paulie been?

Thanks,
& Look forward to joining the board, long time reader first time poster.

Larry

hi im skot
07-10-2008, 10:56 PM
Paul Konerko is my personal jesus.

veeter
07-10-2008, 11:07 PM
Paulie was a .283 career hitter going into 2007. Since then, he's been VERY ordinary, to say the least. He looks like a guy on the down side. That's what I think.

Craig Grebeck
07-10-2008, 11:09 PM
**** happens. It's a 162 game season.

WhiteSoxBlog
07-10-2008, 11:11 PM
I know exactly what you mean. He makes me SO SAD! I love him, and he has had a MILLION great moments, hits, great season, great average. This year, though, I've been ready to throw him under the proverbial bus. It's not right that he's making me like Swisher more! I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt when he came back from rehab, but he has until the end of the Rangers series to prove to me that isn't just ... old!

ilsox7
07-10-2008, 11:20 PM
I know exactly what you mean. He makes me SO SAD! I love him, and he has had a MILLION great moments, hits, great season, great average. This year, though, I've been ready to throw him under the proverbial bus. It's not right that he's making me like Swisher more! I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt when he came back from rehab, but he has until the end of the Rangers series to prove to me that isn't just ... old!

Then what happens?

hi im skot
07-10-2008, 11:22 PM
I know exactly what you mean. He makes me SO SAD! I love him, and he has had a MILLION great moments, hits, great season, great average. This year, though, I've been ready to throw him under the proverbial bus. It's not right that he's making me like Swisher more! I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt when he came back from rehab, but he has until the end of the Rangers series to prove to me that isn't just ... old!

The end of the Rangers series? Dude just gets back from an injury and he has a week to live up to 7+ years of career highlights?

That makes me SO SAD!

thomas35forever
07-10-2008, 11:23 PM
I know exactly what you mean. He makes me SO SAD! I love him, and he has had a MILLION great moments, hits, great season, great average. This year, though, I've been ready to throw him under the proverbial bus. It's not right that he's making me like Swisher more! I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt when he came back from rehab, but he has until the end of the Rangers series to prove to me that isn't just ... old!
:emo:

WhiteSoxBlog
07-10-2008, 11:24 PM
Then what happens?
Then I'll consider his career done. I didn't say I could make a change.

Let me edit this and say, maybe not his career, but render him completely useless this year. He may be good again in 8 months, maybe even have years ahead of him.

JB98
07-10-2008, 11:24 PM
I think the Sox should keep playing Konerko and see if he snaps out of it.

Certainly, his current level of play is not acceptable, but his track record suggests these struggles will not last.

hi im skot
07-10-2008, 11:24 PM
:emo:

Perfect choice of emoticon, sir!

+1

hi im skot
07-10-2008, 11:25 PM
Then I'll consider his career done. I didn't say I could make a change.

Was Thome's career done in May?

I'll probably pass on reading your blog.

WhiteSoxBlog
07-10-2008, 11:26 PM
The end of the Rangers series? Dude just gets back from an injury and he has a week to live up to 7+ years of career highlights?

That makes me SO SAD!

I'm not saying he has to bring his average up to .270 in 3 games, just make enough of a showing out there. The 80 games before his injury were my issue, not the ones since

hi im skot
07-10-2008, 11:26 PM
I think the Sox should keep playing Konerko and see if he snaps out of it.

Certainly, his current level of play is not acceptable, but his track record suggests these struggles will not last.

Thank you.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Well JB, we are approaching the second week of July. If he waits much longer for his track record to kick in it'll be the off season.

I think right now his offensive struggles may be starting to bother him in the field.

Lip

itsnotrequired
07-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Was Thome's career done in May?

It was also done in April.

/june and july are flukes thome sucks and should be killed

Cuck the Fubs
07-10-2008, 11:32 PM
:?:

Wow....just wow.....amazing thread

JB98
07-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Well JB, we are approaching the second week of July. If he waits much longer for his track record to kick in it'll be the off season.

I think right now his offensive struggles may be starting to bother him in the field.

Lip

However, he played for six weeks with a bad hand and sat out three weeks with a strained oblique. Give him another couple weeks to prove he's healthy, and we'll see what happens.

I agree that we can't wait for Paulie forever, but I think we can wait until the end of July.

Stringer
07-10-2008, 11:42 PM
I think there is no one else that pays for the Sox that is under a bigger microscope than Paul Konerko

SMH

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2008, 11:44 PM
However, he played for six weeks with a bad hand and sat out three weeks with a strained oblique. Give him another couple weeks to prove he's healthy, and we'll see what happens.

I agree that we can't wait for Paulie forever, but I think we can wait until the end of July.

I think it's reasonable to give Paulie the month of July to get back on track.

If at the end of July Paulie remains ostensibly "healthy" (not on the DL with an obvious injury) but still struggling with a sub-.225 BA, do you bite the bullet and bench him?

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2008, 11:44 PM
I think there is no one else that pays for the Sox that is under a bigger microscope than Paul Konerko

SMH

Ummm, Brian Anderson? :tongue:

JB98
07-10-2008, 11:47 PM
I think it's reasonable to give Paulie the month of July to get back on track.

If at the end of July Paulie remains ostensibly "healthy" (not on the DL with an obvious injury) but still struggling with a sub-.225 BA, do you bite the bullet and bench him?

It's not a black-and-white issue. It depends on the quality of at-bats. It depends on how he's playing in the field.

If we continue to see what we've seen all year, eventually a change must be made. Now is not that time. Hopefully, it does not come to that. It would be a difficult thing for the coaches to have to do.

manders_01
07-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Konerko in my mind is an enigma. I have never felt so many mixed emotion to a player.

The Bad,

He's slow, prone to long slumps, remember first half of '03?, and doesn't give the fan a lot to think about as a lively personality.

The Good,

When he's on, there's no better fast ball hitter in the game, defense at times, albiet absolutely not tonight, can be surprisingly stellar. (He'll throw some leather once in a while although tonight I'd like to have his head for missing that DP ball).

Anyway, I wanted to see if anyone was struggling with Paulie like I have been this year. It's more than love/hate I just like a young child am very confused. HA.

On an unrelated note, Me and my cousin ran into Konerko at the 2003 All Star game and he was a total jerk, but considering his first half performance this should have been expected, I also pose the question, what has your experience with Paulie been?

Thanks,
& Look forward to joining the board, long time reader first time poster.

Larry

You forgot:

The Good,

He's wearing high socks now!!! :bandance: :D:

voodoochile
07-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Then what happens?

ANGRY BLOGGING!!!

Soxgirl22
07-10-2008, 11:50 PM
As someone who has suffered a strained oblique myself, I'm definitely giving him a lot more than a week to get back to "The Good" Konerko.

Haha, I noticed the high socks tonight too... wonder why he chose to do that. :D:

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2008, 11:53 PM
It's not a black-and-white issue. It depends on the quality of at-bats. It depends on how he's playing in the field.

If we continue to see what we've seen all year, eventually a change must be made. Now is not that time. Hopefully, it does not come to that. It would be a difficult thing for the coaches to have to do.

Not a black-and-white issue? Are you backing down? :tongue:

Say on July 31 he's playing and producing as he is now, or did throughout the season before his DL stint. Do you bench him? Of course it's a difficult decision!

It's Dankerific
07-10-2008, 11:54 PM
On an unrelated note, Me and my cousin ran into Konerko at the 2003 All Star game and he was a total jerk, but considering his first half performance this should have been expected, I also pose the question, what has your experience with Paulie been?

Thanks,
& Look forward to joining the board, long time reader first time poster.

Larry

He was not nice to me in Sept of '04 either. :whiner:

It definitely still affects my opinion of him, fair or unfair... (and I'm sure he has spent some long hard nights thinking about that... ;) )

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2008, 11:55 PM
He was not nice to me in Sept of '04 either. :whiner:

It definitely still affects my opinion of him, fair or unfair... (and I'm sure he has spent some long hard nights thinking about that... ;) )

OK, so I've read two stories here about PK being not nice.

Would anyone share any stories of him being nice to them? I'm not asking to be a jerk myself; I really want to know.

JB98
07-11-2008, 12:02 AM
Not a black-and-white issue? Are you backing down? :tongue:

Say on July 31 he's playing and producing as he is now, or did throughout the season before his DL stint. Do you bench him? Of course it's a difficult decision!

If he still looks this inept a few weeks down the line, I think you have to look at making a change.

But I'm not going to say, well, if Paulie doesn't have his average above .225, we should bench him. It isn't that black and white. We need to see a better approach at the plate. We need to see some power. I'm more concerned about Paul's warning track power and lack of run production than I am about his poor average.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 12:04 AM
OK, so I've read two stories here about PK being not nice.

Would anyone share any stories of him being nice to them? I'm not asking to be a jerk myself; I really want to know.

I posted the story once earlier this year, I don't want to keep repeating the specifics. I would like to say that on that same day Ross Gload was very cool and he ended up with one of the only good games against the angels that day. YEA Ross Gload!!!

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2008, 12:10 AM
If he still looks this inept a few weeks down the line, I think you have to look at making a change.

But I'm not going to say, well, if Paulie doesn't have his average above .225, we should bench him. It isn't that black and white. We need to see a better approach at the plate. We need to see some power. I'm more concerned about Paul's warning track power and lack of run production than I am about his poor average.

Fair enough. You get to see more games than I do. You are in a better position to judge whether or not he looks inept (your word, not mine). I'd have to say that a .225 average is a pretty good indicator of being inept at the plate, unless he's clobbering a lot of multi-run homers and taking a lot of walks, too.

Gavin
07-11-2008, 12:12 AM
But he was hitting for average in Charlotte!!

JB98
07-11-2008, 12:18 AM
Fair enough. You get to see more games than I do. You are in a better position to judge whether or not he looks inept (your word, not mine). I'd have to say that a .225 average is a pretty good indicator of being inept at the plate, unless he's clobbering a lot of multi-run homers and taking a lot of walks, too.

A couple weeks ago, Thome was hitting .225. But he was looking quite good at the plate. Now, he's hitting .242 and appears to be on his way back to where his numbers should be.

Not that Jim has anything to do with Konerko, but I bring that up to show that batting average isn't real important. Paul is hitting .214 right now. If he's at .225 and looking good three weeks from now, you gotta stay with him, because that means he's on the climb.

I'm thinking more about approach than I am about batting average. If the approach is good, the numbers will follow. Right now, Konerko's approach is not good and it has not been for the majority of the season.

ondafarm
07-11-2008, 12:18 AM
It's not a black-and-white issue. It depends on the quality of at-bats. It depends on how he's playing in the field.

If we continue to see what we've seen all year, eventually a change must be made. Now is not that time. Hopefully, it does not come to that. It would be a difficult thing for the coaches to have to do.

Quality of at-bats and play in the field should determine virtually everybody's future and certainly affect their spot in the lineup and amount of playing time. I have to say, to me his ABs this series looked pretty pathetic, first night excepted.

JB98
07-11-2008, 12:19 AM
Quality of at-bats and play in the field should determine virtually everybody's future and certainly affect their spot in the lineup and amount of playing time. I have to say, to me his ABs this series looked pretty pathetic, first night excepted.

No question. The last two nights were bad. I'm acknowledging that this cannot continue indefinitely, but the time to pull the plug has not yet arrived, IMO.

Jeckle2000
07-11-2008, 12:23 AM
Paul Konerko has only been back from the DL for three days now!
HE WILL BE FINE!

He's 32 years old... He still have some good years in him and a decent 2nd half at that. Do I think he'll suddenly start hitting .300? No... But .250 by the end of the season isn't out of the realm of possibility. Also he didn't cause the pitching to suddenly allow all those hits to the Royals! Please stop overreacting over Paulie!

Noneck
07-11-2008, 01:07 AM
Paul Konerko has only been back from the DL for three days now!
HE WILL BE FINE!

He's 32 years old... He still have some good years in him and a decent 2nd half at that. Do I think he'll suddenly start hitting .300? No... But .250 by the end of the season isn't out of the realm of possibility. Also he didn't cause the pitching to suddenly allow all those hits to the Royals! Please stop overreacting over Paulie!

Hope you are right but one never knows. Look at Richie Sexson. He got old real fast. Don't assume everyone ages the same way.

kevingrt
07-11-2008, 01:17 AM
One word for PK:

:dunno:

MarySwiss
07-11-2008, 01:27 AM
OK, so I've read two stories here about PK being not nice.

Would anyone share any stories of him being nice to them? I'm not asking to be a jerk myself; I really want to know.

Frater,
I'm surprised to hear these stories. I don't know Paulie personally, but I know a few people who do, and I've never heard anything bad about him from them.

Based on my own experience at Spring Training--especially in the ST following the World Series win--he comes off as a person who is not comfortable being idolized. When people at ST tried to thank him for the victory, he was visibly uncomfortable. This is borne out by people who know him personally; when he's congratulated on the WS win, he always points out that it was a team win.

I'm sure that all these guys have times when they would prefer to be left alone. Look at Frank Thomas; you'll hear people say that he's the nicest guy ever and others who'll say he's a jerk.

Truth is, they're human.

SoxSpeed22
07-11-2008, 01:33 AM
Paulie has had bad halves before. Hell, I even called him 'one-half' Konerko several times. He just came off the DL and is still getting his timing back. I think he'll be the hottest hitter on this team in August and September. (And hopefully to the end of October).
Even though I did like the lineup better with Swish playing 1st and Wise in center. The the lineup was more versatile and could manufacture runs differently.

WhiteSox5187
07-11-2008, 02:12 AM
I think this second half is going to say alot about Paulie. I think he was pretty banged up in the first half and just when it looked like his thumb was getting better (he was starting to take pitches the other way which to me is the sign he is coming out of any funk he is in), he winds up pulling his oblique. So I think this is the first time he's been healthy in a while and we'll get to see now whether or not he was just in an extended slump/hurt or if he's actually on the downside of his career.

MetroPD
07-11-2008, 03:09 AM
Konerko is only 32 years old, while he may not be at the peak of his career, he's hardly in the old run down washed up catagory. Where is the picture of that guy saying this thread sux?

whitesoxwilkes
07-11-2008, 08:03 AM
Paulie has had bald halves before.

Freudian slip? :redneck

I have bumped into Konerko twice out and about on the town and once at the hotel bar in Baltimore. On all three occasions he was pretty cool.

I didn't ask him for an autograph or anything like that though. Just shook his hand and talked for a bit. He's pretty talkative actually.

rocky biddle
07-11-2008, 08:35 AM
OK, so I've read two stories here about PK being not nice.

Would anyone share any stories of him being nice to them? I'm not asking to be a jerk myself; I really want to know.

My Aunt Rosie was confined to a wheel chair because of cerebral palsy. She was also pretty much blind. She loved the White Sox, and Paul Konerko was her guy. Every year we'd take her to Soxfest for one reason- to get his autograph. And every year he'd be so nice to her that she'd talk about him for weeks afterward.

In 2000, we were near the stage for the banner ceremony. After it was over, Paulie came over and talked to my aunt and took a few pictures. A few years later at Soxfest, she had him sign the picture. When he handed it to her she accidentally grabbed it where he had just signed, and the autograph smudged. Noticing this, PK told her that he didn't like the way he'd signed it, took it back, and fixed it for her.

That picture was her pride and joy. She died two years ago and we put it in the casket with her for all eternity.

So yeah, in my book Paul Konerko will always be a pretty good guy.

Lillian
07-11-2008, 08:38 AM
We have had this discussion earlier in the season, but it is hard to understand why the Sox don't put B. A. in center, and move Swisher to First, in the late innings, with a small lead. Last night was one of those situations.
In the bigger picture, those of us like Frater and a few others, are likely the most frustrated that the Sox never moved Konerko before his no trade rights went into effect. It never made any sense for the Sox to keep him, once Swisher was acquired. The team had a chance to get better defensively, and faster, with Swisher at First, and anyone else in center with speed and a good glove. Who knows what we could have gotten for P. K., but that ship has sailed.

Carolina Kenny
07-11-2008, 08:48 AM
However, he played for six weeks with a bad hand and sat out three weeks with a strained oblique. Give him another couple weeks to prove he's healthy, and we'll see what happens.

I agree that we can't wait for Paulie forever, but I think we can wait until the end of July.

Bingo. You can't throw Paulie under the bus yet, but at some point he has to show signs of coming around.

Ozzie will be cautious, but won't let the season slip away just to accomadate Konerko. Oh, I long for the days when Konerko gave me a Bonerko.

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 08:59 AM
I think PK will come around the same way Thome has come around. My issue with PK is it leads to Swisher in CF....our defense goes down a notch (or two), and Swisher doesn't seem to hit as well as he does when he's at 1st or in the corners.

SoxSpeed22
07-11-2008, 09:14 AM
Freudian slip? :redneckVery likely. I applied some ointment for my alopecia areata around the time I posted that. It's actually pretty common for people with allergies. I meant to say bad halves.

ms620
07-11-2008, 09:18 AM
We have had this discussion earlier in the season, but it is hard to understand why the Sox don't put B. A. in center, and move Swisher to First, in the late innings, with a small lead. Last night was one of those situations.
In the bigger picture, those of us like Frater and a few others, are likely the most frustrated that the Sox never moved Konerko before his no trade rights went into effect. It never made any sense for the Sox to keep him, once Swisher was acquired. The team had a chance to get better defensively, and faster, with Swisher at First, and anyone else in center with speed and a good glove. Who knows what we could have gotten for P. K., but that ship has sailed.

This has been said before, but I will say it again. He was due up in the top of the ninth. BA would have been in there in the 9th if the sox still had that 1-0 lead. If you want to pull PK in the 8th, when he was due up in the 9th, than why not pull him in the 7th. What makes the 8th the right inning to do this. I have no problem leaving PK in during the 8th. Obviously, as seen in this series, it was going to be tough winning 1-0. Ozzie wanted to give PK 1 more AB.

soxpride724
07-11-2008, 09:21 AM
I didn't think I would say this before Paulie got injured but, the team looked alot better without him in the line up.

Beacause he is one of my favorite players I hope he gets out of his slump, sooner rather than later...

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 09:42 AM
I didn't think I would say this before Paulie got injured but, the team looked alot better without him in the line up.

But we also played at home the entire time he was on the DL....that was a big part of it. We're a MUCH better team at home than on the road.

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 09:44 AM
In the bigger picture, those of us like Frater and a few others, are likely the most frustrated that the Sox never moved Konerko before his no trade rights went into effect. It never made any sense for the Sox to keep him, once Swisher was acquired. The team had a chance to get better defensively, and faster, with Swisher at First, and anyone else in center with speed and a good glove. Who knows what we could have gotten for P. K., but that ship has sailed.

I'm in that group as well. Konerko has done a lot for this team but unfortunately I don't think he's a good fit anymore. Swisher should be our future 1B. I just wish PK would be willing to waive his no trade clause if asked.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 09:44 AM
I think it's reasonable to give Paulie the month of July to get back on track.

We gave him all of 2007 and half of this year. If he was a Salesman he'd be working for the equivalent of the Royals by now.

Lukin13
07-11-2008, 09:52 AM
If PK was on another team people would be making steroids insinuations.

Lillian
07-11-2008, 10:03 AM
This has been said before, but I will say it again. He was due up in the top of the ninth. BA would have been in there in the 9th if the sox still had that 1-0 lead. If you want to pull PK in the 8th, when he was due up in the 9th, than why not pull him in the 7th. What makes the 8th the right inning to do this. I have no problem leaving PK in during the 8th. Obviously, as seen in this series, it was going to be tough winning 1-0. Ozzie wanted to give PK 1 more AB.

Your point is well taken. However, in that Konerko is still not hitting, perhaps an earlier move could be justified. It isn't as much about Konerko's defense, as it is about having Swisher in Center. Once you get into the late innings, when Bullpens are involved, having Swisher in the lineup for Konerko has one other advantage. Because Swisher is a switch hitter, it makes the opposing manager's task of mixing and matching harder. If he brings in a Lefty, Swisher simply moves to the other side.

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2008, 10:06 AM
Frater,
I'm surprised to hear these stories. I don't know Paulie personally, but I know a few people who do, and I've never heard anything bad about him from them.

Based on my own experience at Spring Training--especially in the ST following the World Series win--he comes off as a person who is not comfortable being idolized. When people at ST tried to thank him for the victory, he was visibly uncomfortable. This is borne out by people who know him personally; when he's congratulated on the WS win, he always points out that it was a team win.

I'm sure that all these guys have times when they would prefer to be left alone. Look at Frank Thomas; you'll hear people say that he's the nicest guy ever and others who'll say he's a jerk.

Truth is, they're human.

Thanks, Mary. I don't know him and have never met him. I don't know anyone who knows him personally, either. I agree that by his actions, statements, etc., he's not comfortable being idolized. Wasn't he reticent to take on the "captain" title?

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2008, 10:09 AM
My Aunt Rosie was confined to a wheel chair because of cerebral palsy. She was also pretty much blind. She loved the White Sox, and Paul Konerko was her guy. Every year we'd take her to Soxfest for one reason- to get his autograph. And every year he'd be so nice to her that she'd talk about him for weeks afterward.

In 2000, we were near the stage for the banner ceremony. After it was over, Paulie came over and talked to my aunt and took a few pictures. A few years later at Soxfest, she had him sign the picture. When he handed it to her she accidentally grabbed it where he had just signed, and the autograph smudged. Noticing this, PK told her that he didn't like the way he'd signed it, took it back, and fixed it for her.

That picture was her pride and joy. She died two years ago and we put it in the casket with her for all eternity.

So yeah, in my book Paul Konerko will always be a pretty good guy.

Thanks, rocky! That's a great story. My condolences on the loss of your aunt. Was she able to see the White Sox win it all? If so, she must have been so happy!

Lillian
07-11-2008, 10:14 AM
Perhaps if we hadn't paid dearly to acquire Swisher, much of these discussions about Konerko would not be necessary. The point is that the Sox should not have given up what they did to acquire Swisher, if the plan was to play him in Center.
Moreover, the unanticipated emergence of Quentin and Ramirez as legitimate offensive weapons makes it much more reasonable to settle for great defense in Center. The Sox don't need another slow slugger at First. This team is simply better balanced with Swisher at First, and a good defender in Center.
Swisher is also the only switch hitter in the lineup. It seems like the more you analyze it, the more compelling the argument for not having kept Konerko. It's just a shame that he wasn't moved before his no trade rights went into effect.

oeo
07-11-2008, 10:14 AM
If PK was on another team people would be making steroids insinuations.

Didn't people already do that with Swisher?

Please...

Leave it to WSI to tell us when a guy's career is over and/or must have cheated his way to past success...and end up being completely wrong. What happened to those that were blasting Thome and Swisher again? It's funny, you stick around telling us how so-and-so sucks, it's all over, they're too old...and then you disappear.

Then you look at a guy like Brian Anderson, and people actually believe that he's going places. Do some of you even watch?

Law11
07-11-2008, 10:15 AM
Paulie's still the man in my book.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 10:19 AM
Paulie's still the man in my book.

Your book must be a slow read!

Cuck the Fubs
07-11-2008, 10:19 AM
Didn't people already do that with Swisher?

Please...

Leave it to WSI to tell us when a guy's career is over and/or must have cheated his way to past success...and end up being completely wrong. What happened to those that were blasting Thome and Swisher again? It's funny, you stick around telling us how so-and-so sucks, it's all over, they're too old...and then you disappear.

Then you look at a guy like Brian Anderson, and people actually believe that he's going places. Do some of you even watch?

:bandance: Thank you very much! :bandance:

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 10:21 AM
Then you look at a guy like Brian Anderson, and people
actually believe that he's going places. Do some of you even watch?

If you want to pay Konerko League Minimum, spot start him, and bat him at the bottom of the order than I'm all for that... Where do I sign?

oeo
07-11-2008, 10:22 AM
If you want to pay Konerko League Minimum, spot start him, and bat him at the bottom of the order than I'm all for that... Where do I sign?

But Brian Anderson is a future All Star and should be starting everyday. He just needs the ABs...just give him time. Why aren't we paying him more, anyway? It's a crock of ****.

Konerko had an off year last year offensively; it was not awful by any means, though. This year, he's been eaten alive by injuries. I think it's nothing more than a coincidence that it's been a "year and a half" since he's been the Paul Konerko we all know.

Get him healthy, and he will be fine.

kobo
07-11-2008, 10:31 AM
Get him healthy, and he will be fine.
I hope you're right.

sas1974
07-11-2008, 10:34 AM
Konerko had an off year last year offensively; it was not awful by any means, though. This year, he's been eaten alive by injuries. I think it's nothing more than a coincidence that it's been a "year and a half" since he's been the Paul Konerko we all know.

Get him healthy, and he will be fine.

To further your point, let's not forget that just about everyone had a off year offensively. I'm growing a bit impatient with Paulie as well, but I agree he deserves a chance to prove he's "still got it" when healthy.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 10:35 AM
Get him healthy, and he will be fine.
Fine let's get him healthy, Paulie take a month long break, get all those aches and pains gone, we'll see you in mid-August. What ever it takes to get him back to old Paulie, cause right now he's terrible!

Tragg
07-11-2008, 10:36 AM
But Brian Anderson is a future All Star and should be starting everyday. He just needs the ABs...just give him time. Why aren't we paying him more, anyway? It's a crock of ****.

Konerko had an off year last year offensively; it was not awful by any means, though. This year, he's been eaten alive by injuries. I think it's nothing more than a coincidence that it's been a "year and a half" since he's been the Paul Konerko we all know.

Get him healthy, and he will be fine.

Some people actually thought Jerry Owens was better than Carlos Quentin; that Juan Uribe was better than Ramirez.
Others thought that Anderson should play ahead of high talent like Erstad and Mack.
People have opinions. So what?

palehozenychicty
07-11-2008, 10:37 AM
I gotta give Paulie a chance. We'll need him this year. Now for 2009? That's another question for another day.

Lillian
07-11-2008, 10:45 AM
I gotta give Paulie a chance. We'll need him this year. Now for 2009? That's another question for another day.

"Need him"? Do you mean we need him, because we don't have any other options, or do you mean we are stuck with him, and have to play him, therefore we need him to perform?

ms620
07-11-2008, 10:52 AM
"Need him"? Do you mean we need him, because we don't have any other options, or do you mean we are stuck with him, and have to play him, therefore we need him to perform?

I think we need him to be in the lineup, and play like the PK of old if we want to think about a potential world series run. OBviously we need to win the division first, or jsut make the playoffs. I think the Sox can do that with a struggling PK, though it will be extremely tough. However, a healthy and hitting PK makes this team so much better.

Lillian
07-11-2008, 10:58 AM
I think we need him to be in the lineup, and play like the PK of old if we want to think about a potential world series run. OBviously we need to win the division first, or jsut make the playoffs. I think the Sox can do that with a struggling PK, though it will be extremely tough. However, a healthy and hitting PK makes this team so much better.

Yes, however if he were gone via injury or trade, I think that we would be fine with what we would have. Therefore, I don't think we need him.
That's my point.

kitekrazy
07-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Hope you are right but one never knows. Look at Richie Sexson. He got old real fast. Don't assume everyone ages the same way.

In situations like that I assume "roids" were involved.

Cuck the Fubs
07-11-2008, 11:21 AM
Blindold Paulie, give him a last smoke, then finish him off........

I hope he goes off for a huge stretch....then all the bashers better make sure they come on in for their heaping of crow.

PhillipsBubba
07-11-2008, 11:36 AM
All this Paulie love is heartwarming but the cold fact remains his hitting and fielding are off. The Sox are a better team with Swisher at first and the platoon system in center.

All good players get kicked to the curb eventually...looks like Konerko's time is drawing nigh

October26
07-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Blindold Paulie, give him a last smoke, then finish him off........

I hope he goes off for a huge stretch....then all the bashers better make sure they come on in for their heaping of crow.

:thumbsup: I'm with you!

voodoochile
07-11-2008, 11:47 AM
Fine let's get him healthy, Paulie take a month long break, get all those aches and pains gone, we'll see you in mid-August. What ever it takes to get him back to old Paulie, cause right now he's terrible!

He's been back for 3 days and before that he was scuffling. He gains nothing hitting against AAA pitching and the Sox can't just ship him down there anyway. This is it. He stays until he finds his stroke or gets benched, but it's a WAY early for the benching...

voodoochile
07-11-2008, 11:49 AM
"Need him"? Do you mean we need him, because we don't have any other options, or do you mean we are stuck with him, and have to play him, therefore we need him to perform?
Need him because if/when he gets hot, he'll carry the team for weeks at a time and make the Sox that much more dangerous come the playoffs.

bigdommer
07-11-2008, 12:02 PM
If he wasn't done after 2003, which was worse than this year, I doubt he is done now at 32.

Paulie's biggest flaw, other than his sun-dial like speed, is that he gets very down on himself when he fails. This has been well documented by hitting coaches and scouts in explanation for his tendency to slump. The injury also doesn't help. With JD, TCQ, and TCM picking up the offensive slack, Ozzie just needs to let Paulie ride this out until he gets hot, which always happens.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 12:22 PM
You guys talked me back on the Paulie Band Wagon!!! I can't wait for his second half!!! This guy is a monster with only a handfull of injuries setting him back right now. He's truly the greatest! Historically he does hit 11 points higher post all-star break too. He steals less bases though! Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Kool Aide!

Make me eat Crow Paulie I DARE YOU! I double DOG DARE YOU... But know I will ride you every day on this board until then! I sit in section 157, you know that section you swing for every time you are at bat, but the ball lands in a glove closer to section 120... I'm the tall guy Row 12... Stop aiming for me, hit an ******** base hit until you get your stroke back. After slowly building your average back above, let's say, 230, maybe try pulling the ball again. If you're still injured sit down, but if I see you pop up, slam the bat down, jog down to first with your head down one more ******* time, I'm going to kick my TV in. Show me you aren't the Pile of steaming **** I think you are right now! Give me a reason to Apologize and BUY OEO and Voodo a beer a month/ two months from now and publically eat crow any way they deem fit!

oeo
07-11-2008, 12:34 PM
You guys talked me back on the Paulie Band Wagon!!! I can't wait for his second half!!! This guy is a monster with only a handfull of injuries setting him back right now. He's truly the greatest! Historically he does hit 11 points higher post all-star break too. He steals less bases though! Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Kool Aide!

Make me eat Crow Paulie I DARE YOU! I double DOG DARE YOU... But know I will ride you every day on this board until then! I sit in section 157, you know that section you swing for every time you are at bat, but the ball lands in a glove closer to section 120... I'm the tall guy Row 12... Stop aiming for me, hit an ******** base hit until you get your stroke back. After slowly building your average back above, let's say, 230, maybe try pulling the ball again. If you're still injured sit down, but if I see you pop up, slam the bat down, jog down to first with your head down one more ******* time, I'm going to kick my TV in. Show me you aren't the Pile of steaming **** I think you are right now! Give me a reason to Apologize and BUY OEO and Voodo a beer a month/ two months from now and publically eat crow any way they deem fit!

Are you in comedy?

Gammons Peter
07-11-2008, 12:39 PM
He's been back for 3 days and before that he was scuffling. He gains nothing hitting against AAA pitching and the Sox can't just ship him down there anyway. This is it. He stays until he finds his stroke or gets benched, but it's a WAY early for the benching...

"Suffling" is hitting around .250 for a few weeks, I wish he were scuffling

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 12:41 PM
Are you in comedy?
Worse... SALES!

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 12:45 PM
You guys talked me back on the Paulie Band Wagon!!! I can't wait for his second half!!! This guy is a monster with only a handfull of injuries setting him back right now. He's truly the greatest! Historically he does hit 11 points higher post all-star break too. He steals less bases though! Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Kool Aide!

Make me eat Crow Paulie I DARE YOU! I double DOG DARE YOU... But know I will ride you every day on this board until then! I sit in section 157, you know that section you swing for every time you are at bat, but the ball lands in a glove closer to section 120... I'm the tall guy Row 12... Stop aiming for me, hit an ******** base hit until you get your stroke back. After slowly building your average back above, let's say, 230, maybe try pulling the ball again. If you're still injured sit down, but if I see you pop up, slam the bat down, jog down to first with your head down one more ******* time, I'm going to kick my TV in. Show me you aren't the Pile of steaming **** I think you are right now! Give me a reason to Apologize and BUY OEO and Voodo a beer a month/ two months from now and publically eat crow any way they deem fit!

Teki, can I be in your "PK Is Horrible" Club? :smile:

Dub25
07-11-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm not bashing Konerko, I'm just saying what I think could happen in the off season. Thome's option does not get picked up and KW looks to possibly trade Paulie. Swisher goes to first with Dye becoming the DH. That's just my little theory. I really hope Paulie can turn it around because I hate cursing his name when he doesn't come through. Especially since he has had a lot of great moments... grand slam in game 2 to put the Sox up.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 12:51 PM
Teki, can I be in your "PK Is Horrible" Club? :smile:
I think we only have two members, judging from this thread anyway... It's more of a "Duo" then a "Club" right now. There's no initiation yet, but I'm reviewing old recordings of "Gangland" for ideas...

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 12:53 PM
I think we only have two memebers, judging from this thread anyway... It's more of a "Duo" then a "Club" right now. There's no initiation yet, but I'm reviewing old recordings of "Gangland" for ideas...

LOL, now you just have to come up with a catchy name.

RockJock07
07-11-2008, 12:53 PM
All this Paulie love is heartwarming but the cold fact remains his hitting and fielding are off. The Sox are a better team with Swisher at first and the platoon system in center.

All good players get kicked to the curb eventually...looks like Konerko's time is drawing nigh

Great Post, This thread took on an appreatiation thread feel and Paulie is still here. I'm not sure why posters think that telling stories about great things he has done gives him a free pass on a horrible average and a equally as bad OBP.

Sure, paulie is a great guy, I've never met him, probably never will, all I can go on is what other people say about him which I believe is true. However, he is bad this season, and most of you are still saying that he will get his numbers. Well I have news for all of you, he's not going to get his numbers, he'll be lucky to reach 25 HR and 80 RBI.

I think the team is better with Swisher at 1B and BA/a CF traded for would help this team more. I would give him until after the Rangers series at home after the ASB, that's 12 games vs. KC and TEX.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 12:55 PM
LOL, now you just have to come up with a catchy name.
How about the PK 14 IZZA Crip?

voodoochile
07-11-2008, 01:01 PM
I'm not bashing Konerko, I'm just saying what I think could happen in the off season. Thome's option does not get picked up and KW looks to possibly trade Paulie. Swisher goes to first with Dye becoming the DH. That's just my little theory. I really hope Paulie can turn it around because I hate cursing his name when he doesn't come through. Especially since he has had a lot of great moments... grand slam in game 2 to put the Sox up.


Okay and or the last time, please... Thome's contract AUTOMATICALLY vests next years option if he reaches 1100 PA between last year and this year. He needs 264 to reach that level with 78 games to play. Sure they could bench him but that would probably adversely affect their playoff chances, piss off the fan base and tick off most of the players.

Barring an injury, Thome is playing at 35th street next season, it's practically a done deal...

Lillian
07-11-2008, 01:11 PM
Need him because if/when he gets hot, he'll carry the team for weeks at a time and make the Sox that much more dangerous come the playoffs.

Alright, thanks for the clarification. Now please tell us how long you think would be a reasonable length of time to wait for it to happen. He has not produced on that level for a year and a half. When is it appropriate to give up waiting? Remember, in the meantime we have Swisher in Center, and that hurts the team as well.
Let me add that I really like Paulie, and I feel sorry for him. It must be very tough for him to know that he is not helping the team. Last night was especially hard on him, and you could see his angst in the post game interview.
However, that said, I think that you just have to be rational, and the combination of Swisher in CF and Konerko in the heart of the order is not the best option for the Sox, at this point. They don't need another power bat, as much as they do more speed, good defense, and consistent hitting.

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 01:20 PM
How about the PK 14 IZZA Crip?

It says it all.
It's now in my signature!

oeo
07-11-2008, 01:29 PM
Okay and or the last time, please... Thome's contract AUTOMATICALLY vests next years option if he reaches 1100 PA between last year and this year. He needs 264 to reach that level with 78 games to play. Sure they could bench him but that would probably adversely affect their playoff chances, piss off the fan base and tick off most of the players.

Barring an injury, Thome is playing at 35th street next season, it's practically a done deal...

Nothing is a done deal. Thome hasn't even hit the DL yet this year. I'd be surprised if he made it through the whole season without at least one DL stint.

slavko
07-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Allotta "I thinks," "I hopes," and "if's" in this here thread.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 01:33 PM
Nothing is a done deal. Thome hasn't even hit the DL yet this year. I'd be surprised if he made it through the whole season without at least one DL stint.

Considering that it would cost him, what, 13 mil? I expect we will see a super "healthy" Thome all year.

if he produces like june and the beginning of july the rest of the year, it will be a good thing. I just hope we dont see the april/may ****fest return, all while knowing we've made our 2009 bed too.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 01:42 PM
It says it all.
It's now in my signature!
We'll come up with the hand shake at a later date.

assrevolution
07-11-2008, 01:42 PM
Everyone's frustrated with him, but that's how baseball goes. slumps are part of the game. It's just so bizarre when he comes to the plate and the last thing you're thinking of is him hitting a homerun. At least that's not what I'm visualizing. I just hope for solid contact. He's been hitting it hard right at a few guys (when he's not striking out 4 times in a game) which is tough, but he's going to take another week or so to get back in rhythm. He's going to be negatively impacted by the All-Star break IMHO. He should stay active if he can....ha!

assrevolution
07-11-2008, 01:44 PM
Alright, thanks for the clarification. Now please tell us how long you think would be a reasonable length of time to wait for it to happen. He has not produced on that level for a year and a half. When is it appropriate to give up waiting? Remember, in the meantime we have Swisher in Center, and that hurts the team as well.
Let me add that I really like Paulie, and I feel sorry for him. It must be very tough for him to know that he is not helping the team. Last night was especially hard on him, and you could see his angst in the post game interview.
However, that said, I think that you just have to be rational, and the combination of Swisher in CF and Konerko in the heart of the order is not the best option for the Sox, at this point. They don't need another power bat, as much as they do more speed, good defense, and consistent hitting.


If the Sox benched or traded Paulie and he broke out of this slump which is very likely considering his career numbers then our club would look like the biggest idiots in the history of the league. This short term slump doesn't warrant a drastic movel.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 01:49 PM
If the Sox benched or traded Paulie and he broke out of this slump which is very likely considering his career numbers then our club would look like the biggest idiots in the history of the league. This short term slump doesn't warrant a drastic movel.
Short Term = 1.5 years? Maybe in investing?

oeo
07-11-2008, 01:52 PM
Considering that it would cost him, what, 13 mil? I expect we will see a super "healthy" Thome all year.

If he gets hurt, he gets hurt. There's nothing he can do to stop it.

ArkanSox
07-11-2008, 01:53 PM
As always, it's not for us WSI posters to decide whether PK or any of the other Sox will play or sit, be traded, or be outright released. If that were the case, I'm afraid that the White Sox wouldn't have enough warm bodies left to field a team tonight.

Hell, if it had been up to me earlier this year, Alexei would've been in center, and Swisher might have been history.

Paulie's been hurt, has usually looked terrible when he has been in there, and may possibly never recover this year or ever, but I wouldn't bet against him.

He still has the "C" on his chest, the track record, and the potential to be one of the impact players who can carry this team to the World Series.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 01:58 PM
If he gets hurt, he gets hurt. There's nothing he can do to stop it.

Theres a common belief that PK has been hurt most of the year, yet he has played save for 15 days. Thats the kind of thing I was talking about. Obviously, a broken leg can't be stopped...

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:00 PM
Theres a common belief that PK has been hurt most of the year, yet he has played save for 15 days. Thats the kind of thing I was talking about. Obviously, a broken leg can't be stopped...

Most every guy plays through injuries, it's just a matter of how serious they are. If Thome starts having his annual back problems and can hardly swing the bat, he's not going to play.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 02:06 PM
Most every guy plays through injuries, it's just a matter of how serious they are. If Thome starts having his annual back problems and can hardly swing the bat, he's not going to play.

When most guys are playing through injuries, they're producing. If the injury hinders your ability to play at a decent level, you should be healing, not playing. If the reason for PK's play is injury (not diminished skills), he should be admonished for playing (NOT given a free pass as has been forwarded on this board.)

I don't know who makes the final injury decision, but my guess is that if its not a dehabilitating injury, JT will be out there.

Tekijawa
07-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Most every guy plays through injuries, it's just a matter of how serious they are. If Thome starts having his annual back problems and can hardly swing the bat, he's not going to play.
And yet Paulie continues to try even though his _______ has been bothering him all season?

Part of being an elite athlete is playing though pain, the other part is knowing when that, for lack of a better word, ego needs to be put on the back burner in the best interest of the team as a whole. If he's injured and it's effecting HIS game, which is in turn effecting his teams play then, especially as a CAPTAIN, it is his duty to sit or continue to rehab...

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Over the last 4 "halves" (pre/post All Star, 2006-2007) here are PK's stats:


2006/Pre All Star- .313-21-67
2006/Post All Star- .313-14-46
2007/Pre All Star- .262-18-48
2007/Post All Star- .254-13-42This season he's had the hand injury followed by the oblique which have had a pretty big impact on his hitting. I think any of us would take any of these "halves" this season. I don't see any reason why at age 32 he shouldn't be able to produce in the 2nd half this season if he stays healthy.

I think Swisher in CF hurts us more than PK at 1st base. Tough choices for KW and Ozzie thanks to Quentin's surprising output and Dye/Thome staying healthy (nice problem to have).

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 02:12 PM
And yet Paulie continues to try even though his _______ has been bothering him all season?

Part of being an elite athlete is playing though pain, the other part is knowing when that, for lack of a better word, ego needs to be put on the back burner in the best interest of the team as a whole. If he's injured and it's effecting HIS game, which is in turn effecting his teams play then, especially as a CAPTAIN, it is his duty to sit or continue to rehab...

That's Ozzie's job. It's Ozzie's job to sit him or DL him because his health is preventing him from producing.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 02:16 PM
That's Ozzie's job. It's Ozzie's job to sit him or DL him because his health is preventing him from producing.

No self responsibility?

cheezheadsoxfan
07-11-2008, 02:19 PM
Didn't people already do that with Swisher?

Please...

Leave it to WSI to tell us when a guy's career is over and/or must have cheated his way to past success...and end up being completely wrong. What happened to those that were blasting Thome and Swisher again? It's funny, you stick around telling us how so-and-so sucks, it's all over, they're too old...and then you disappear.

Then you look at a guy like Brian Anderson, and people actually believe that he's going places. Do some of you even watch?

Seems like Buehrle has been giving up for dead more than once as well.

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:19 PM
That's Ozzie's job. It's Ozzie's job to sit him or DL him because his health is preventing him from producing.

If the player says they're fine, and Herm thinks they can play through it, then what is Ozzie supposed to do? If something is that serious, Ozzie will sit them. And most of the time, he gives them an extra day.

Regardless, when Paulie was having the hand problems, who were we going to play? We had most of the lineup not producing. There were a lot of guys that "should have been benched" according to some here.

Right now, Konerko says he's good to go. We'll see if that's true, but give him more than three days to get back into the swing of things.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 02:20 PM
Seems like Buehrle has been giving up for dead more than once as well.

I'd say its alot harder to replace a great pitcher than a firstbaseman

gamblinkenny
07-11-2008, 02:21 PM
OK, so I've read two stories here about PK being not nice.

Would anyone share any stories of him being nice to them? I'm not asking to be a jerk myself; I really want to know.


I met Konerko in '06 outside of Beaumonts downtown at 3:30am (they had a day game the next day). He was with Ross Gload and some other guys, but he stopped and talked to me and my friends for a good 10-15 minutes, cool as hell. I am originally from New England as well so we BS'ed about the east coast for a bit, and he signed some autographs for the girls my bros and i were with. He wasn't a jerk at all to me.

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I'd say its alot harder to replace a great pitcher than a firstbaseman

What does that have to do with WSI's experts telling us how Buehrle was "finished" after 2006. Then he had a bad May (after a pretty good April), and once again, he was "finished."

Then the funniest one of all, after a spectacular June he has a rough outing last Friday and he's deemed no longer reliable by a few.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 02:28 PM
What does that have to do with WSI's experts telling us how Buehrle was "finished" after 2006. Then he had a bad May (after a pretty good April), and once again, he was "finished."

That you give a great pitcher more rope when he is struggling than a firstbaseman?

Getting decent offense from a 1b is relatively easy. (its why you never draft 1b very high up in fantasy unless its one or two "studs" in the whole league.)

Also, just because other people were wrong about MB, doesn't mean these people are wrong about PK =)

cheezheadsoxfan
07-11-2008, 02:28 PM
I'd say its alot harder to replace a great pitcher than a firstbaseman

Very true. I was referring more to the tendency on WSI to quickly declare ANY player in a slump as done or useless, regardless of past record.

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:30 PM
That you give a great pitcher more rope when he is struggling than a firstbaseman?

Buehrle wasn't given any 'rope'...that's the point. People constantly jump the gun around here saying so-and-so sucks, when they have long careers to back themselves up.

Also, just because other people were wrong about MB, doesn't mean these people are wrong about PK =)

I understand that, but the point I'm trying to make is, they're still 0-fer. Thome, Swisher, Buehrle, etc. Two months from now, you can probably add Konerko to the list.

It's Dankerific
07-11-2008, 02:36 PM
Buehrle wasn't given any 'rope'...that's the point. People constantly jump the gun around here saying so-and-so sucks, when they have long careers to back themselves up.



I understand that, but the point I'm trying to make is, they're still 0-fer. Thome, Swisher, Buehrle, etc. Two months from now, you can probably add Konerko to the list.


I guess I meant 'rope' from the managerial staff. I can understand letting a pitcher struggle a bit before making a change. Even the best pitchers have bad periods, usually every season save for the truly magical ones. Seeing a pitcher have a bad stretch doesn't have me second guessing NEARLY as much as a Offense minded everyday position player.

At an almost offense only position like first, I think a half season is more than enough time to be given to work things out. Some pretty bad career players could be putting up better numbers there right now.

I hope you are right about PK, but for the people who have been railing on all of our struggling players, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while...

Dan Mega
07-11-2008, 02:37 PM
I understand that, but the point I'm trying to make is, they're still 0-fer. Thome, Swisher, Buehrle, etc. Two months from now, you can probably add Konerko to the list.

So are you just lumping together anyone who questions any Sox player's ability to come back from a prolonged slump?

I guess that means Darin Erstad and Rob Mackowiak had big career comebacks that everyone missed.

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:39 PM
So are you just lumping together anyone who questions any Sox player's ability to come back from a prolonged slump?

I guess that means Darin Erstad and Rob Mackowiak had big career comebacks that everyone missed.

Yep, somehow Darin Erstad and Rob Mackowiak have the track records of Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Mark Buehrle, Nick Swisher...should I go on?

It's besides the point, but Mackowiak was very solid in his time here...I don't get the rip job.

Dan Mega
07-11-2008, 02:43 PM
Yep, somehow Darin Erstad and Rob Mackowiak have the track records of Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Mark Buehrle, Nick Swisher...should I go on?

It's besides the point, but Mackowiak was very solid in his time here...I don't get the rip job.

No, its just that you and the rest of experts here seem to call out anyone that criticizes any Sox player at any given moment.

And I'm trying to locate any posts saying that Swisher was "done".

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 02:46 PM
No self responsibility?

Of course there is...but most athletes who have PK's work ethic will try to play through just about anything. Ozzie has to be smart enough and observant enough to make sure it's not hurting the team.

sox1970
07-11-2008, 02:46 PM
I'm sticking with Konerko since he's had a track record of being a streaky hitter. If they leave Minneapolis on July 31 in second place, and Konerko is still struggling, then I might re-evaluate.

bigdommer
07-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Trivia: Which White Sox player batted .214 with 12 HR and 39 RBI's during the first half last year?

Hint: His career is not over.

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 03:01 PM
We'll come up with the hand shake at a later date.

Sounds great! Looking forward to it.

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Trivia: Which White Sox player batted .214 with 12 HR and 39 RBI's during the first half last year?

Hint: His career is not over.

You mean a .214 average is something to be proud of?

palehozenychicty
07-11-2008, 03:06 PM
"Need him"? Do you mean we need him, because we don't have any other options, or do you mean we are stuck with him, and have to play him, therefore we need him to perform?


Bingo.

ArkanSox
07-11-2008, 03:18 PM
And I'm trying to locate any posts saying that Swisher was "done".

Well, I do remember saying something like we all know who the 'hole' is in centerfield (or the batting order?) when referring to him awhile back. Of course, I suppose some may have thought that I was talking about somebody else.

I know he definitely took some heat here early. Apologies, Swish.

bigdommer
07-11-2008, 03:29 PM
You mean a .214 average is something to be proud of?

Jermaine Dye is the answer to the question. He struggled through some health issues, got hot in the second half, and it has spilled over to this season.

PK is putting up the same dismal numbers. If we had released JD last year, we wouldn't be close to where we are now. The answer to a problem is not to cut your captain/clubhouse guy, pay him tons of $$ to walk away, and hope things get better.

Anyone that thinks Ozzie is not going to put his best 9 out there is crazy.

whitesox901
07-11-2008, 03:36 PM
its a long season, **** goes down

:welcome:

voodoochile
07-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Alright, thanks for the clarification. Now please tell us how long you think would be a reasonable length of time to wait for it to happen. He has not produced on that level for a year and a half. When is it appropriate to give up waiting? Remember, in the meantime we have Swisher in Center, and that hurts the team as well.
Let me add that I really like Paulie, and I feel sorry for him. It must be very tough for him to know that he is not helping the team. Last night was especially hard on him, and you could see his angst in the post game interview.
However, that said, I think that you just have to be rational, and the combination of Swisher in CF and Konerko in the heart of the order is not the best option for the Sox, at this point. They don't need another power bat, as much as they do more speed, good defense, and consistent hitting.

Okay, last year, PK put up an OPS of .841 with 65 XBH including 31 HR.

So while he wasn't up to the standards he set the previous few years, he was hardly chopped liver.

If he can match those numbers for a half season over the final half season of play this year, he'll be a huge boon to the offense.

I'd say he gets until at least mid to late August before being forced into some kind of platoon situation. He had a horrible first half that was riddled with injuries. He's produced in the past and deserves the longest of looks to show he can still hit before. Besides, the team cannot afford to eat his salary so they need to do everything they can to get him back on track.

Rocky Soprano
07-11-2008, 04:03 PM
Jermaine Dye is the answer to the question. He struggled through some health issues, got hot in the second half, and it has spilled over to this season.

PK is putting up the same dismal numbers. If we had released JD last year, we wouldn't be close to where we are now. The answer to a problem is not to cut your captain/clubhouse guy, pay him tons of $$ to walk away, and hope things get better.

Anyone that thinks Ozzie is not going to put his best 9 out there is crazy.

The problem with PK is that the past few seasons he's known to go into these really bad slumps. Last year he was not good at all, this year he's even worse. He hasn't even shown signs of snapping out of it. It would be great for the team if he turned it on, but I just don't think he will. I hope he proves me wrong.

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 04:37 PM
The problem with PK is that the past few seasons he's known to go into these really bad slumps. Last year he was not good at all, this year he's even worse.

Did you even look at his actual stats in 2006 and 2007 before posting?

He delivered .313-35-113 in 2006. That's a solid season by any standard...AND he hit exactly .313 each half of 2006, that's pretty consistent.

In 2007, his production decreased...but still decent...far from "not good at all", on a team where he had very little "protection' around him:

2007/Pre All Star- .262-18-48
2007/Post All Star- .254-13-42.259-31-90 isn't a great year, but considering in his 9 seasons with the White Sox before this year...he's only hit below .277 twice...not horrible.

This is PK's 10th season with the White Sox, he's had solid seasons 8 of 10, with 2003 being one "off year" and this year (with a series of injuries in the 1st half) the other. He's always been known as a good guy, with a good work ethic, and has come through in the clutch in the post season...I think he's earned a little patience from the fans. He's his own worst enemy, gets too down on himself, and is prone to slumps...like many sluggers...but writing him off at 32 doesn't make any sense.

hawkjt
07-11-2008, 04:49 PM
PK has a lot more rope for me yet. If he catches that ball last nite...no one is talking about this...he has had a hit in two of his three games back,btw.
I do like BA in center and Swish at first but we need PK's bat to heat up to win this..I firmly believe it will not happen otherwise.

ondafarm
07-11-2008, 05:09 PM
To answer the original question, he needs steady playing time if he's to get back to "normal". On the other hand, he does appear to have a few extra injuries, just the nagging kind. I'd say give him two (as opposed to one) day off a week and let him DH when Thome is sitting. That will mean Swisher gets three starts a week at 1B and BA gets 4 starts a week in CF. Also plan to sub for PK a little more regularly late in games, especially if the score is close.

oeo
07-11-2008, 05:22 PM
No, its just that you and the rest of experts here seem to call out anyone that criticizes any Sox player at any given moment.

And I'm trying to locate any posts saying that Swisher was "done".

Search Nick Swisher and steroids. There were quite a few people that felt this was just his continuation of falling from steroids.

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2008, 10:06 PM
I'd say give him two (as opposed to one) day off a week and let him DH when Thome is sitting. That will mean Swisher gets three starts a week at 1B and BA gets 4 starts a week in CF. Also plan to sub for PK a little more regularly late in games, especially if the score is close.

I think this is sensible, fair, and wise.

soxfandy
07-11-2008, 10:25 PM
Paulie looks really good tonight.....0-3 with 3 strikeouts so far, let's hope he doesn't get another chance for a golden sambrero. Maybe I'm wrong, but we looked so much better while he was on the DL and we were playing teams that are in contention for something. We are playing crap now and we don't look good at all. Konerko came back and we should be 0-4 if we werent playing the royals!!!

Britt Burns
07-11-2008, 10:56 PM
I think we get rid of PK, Swisher, Thome and Crede because they have all struggled at some point during the season.

Madvora
07-11-2008, 10:58 PM
I think we get rid of PK, Swisher, Thome and Crede because they have all struggled at some point during the season.
At some point? How has Paulie looked for the last two years?

BeviBall!
07-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I think we get rid of PK, Swisher, Thome and Crede because they have all struggled at some point during the season.

Sassy.

DumpJerry
07-11-2008, 11:14 PM
What do I think? See my new sig.

sox1970
07-11-2008, 11:15 PM
What do I think? See my new sig.

Your sig needs fixing.

decolores9628
07-11-2008, 11:19 PM
The Sox cannot continue to wait for Paulie, or Joe, for that matter, to begin to hit. They both make a ton of money to produce. Paul has had maybe two good weeks out of 3 1/2 months.

Joe has just been horrific against lefties. He's the best we have at third however.

DumpJerry
07-11-2008, 11:22 PM
Your sig needs fixing.
How so? Was I too gentle? With him on the DL, we kicked ass. With him in the lineup, we struggle. He's great for a strikeout, something that is good if he's a pitcher. When he does hit the ball, 90% of the time it's a double play. He's been sucking eggs for almost two years now. This is not a slump.

sox1970
07-11-2008, 11:24 PM
How so? Was I too gentle? With him on the DL, we kicked ass. With him in the lineup, we struggle. He's great for a strikeout, something that is good if he's a pitcher. When he does hit the ball, 90% of the time it's a double play. He's been sucking eggs for almost two years now. This is not a slump.

Little typo. Just trying to help you out.

Yes, I agree. He sucks and needs to get it going.

drewcifer
07-11-2008, 11:30 PM
I'd be totally fine with shelving him for awhile. We've got a switch hitter to fill his spot with good OBP... Something is clearly wrong with him.

I guess that means I'm ok with BA. Can't be worse than PK.

DumpJerry
07-11-2008, 11:36 PM
Little typo. Just trying to help you out.

Yes, I agree. He sucks and needs to get it going.
Now it makes sense. I didn't think you were Paulie himself.....

The sad thing is, we're right and we wish we weren't.

ChiSoxGirl
07-11-2008, 11:37 PM
Now it makes sense. I didn't think you were Paulie himself.....

The sad thing is, we're right and we wish we weren't.

Not quite... check out that contraction. :wink:

sox1970
07-11-2008, 11:39 PM
:nod:

Frontman
07-11-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm a fan of Paul's, but this has been b-r-utal these past few nights. Hopefully he can pick up some hits tomorrow/Sunday; because a full week of being on Konerko's case will drive this board off the deep end.

spongyfungy
07-11-2008, 11:50 PM
I think it's time for drastic measures like he did with CQ and AJ at the top of the order just to shake things up. At some point Ozzie has to say enough coddling, we need to start winning and forget about hurting feelings. What that entails, I don't know.

Historically he's had extended slumps, even some that could last an entire season but he's always bounced back and there is very little reason to believe he can't get himself out of this.

I say give him a week or two off to clear his mind because right now he's not helping the team.

Viva Medias B's
07-11-2008, 11:51 PM
It is sad watching Paul Konerko continuing to struggle. I say wait and see how he performs coming out of the break next week.

Vernam
07-12-2008, 12:12 AM
I'm no PK basher, but I'm also no apologist. To an extent, the guy gets too much of a free pass because of his captain status and his contract status. I did say last year that they should consider trading him while his value was high and before his 10-5 kicked in. Despite what Phil Rogers claims, a strong case could be made that the Sox are too loyal to supposedly "core" players.

A couple of years ago, I didn't understand the PK haters, but just recently he has said some things that make me think he might not be the greatest teammate. I didn't like his answer when, on returning from the DL, he was asked about Ozzie's plan to rest various guys by rotating them through the DH spot (presumably PK, Dye, and god knows who else). He gave what nominally was a supportive response, saying Ozzie could do as he sees fit. But then he said he's not tired at all (due to the DL time) and could play all the rest of this year's games at 1B. (Lucky us!) He seemed phony in the first part of his answer and selfish in the second part.

I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw. No, Paulie, tough is Buehrle and the team losing after your bum play. Tough is not you getting an E, and I don't want anyone to talk about the "can't assume a DP" official scoring tradition. For Buehrle to be charged with an earned run there, now that would be tough.

And though it wasn't very recent, I cannot stand his repeated comment after every slow start that his numbers will "be where they need to be" by the end of the season. I hope I never hear that BS from him again.

All that aside, it's hard to avoid wondering if his presence in the lineup has an almost contagious effect, and not in a good way. I wouldn't claim it's his fault when other guys suck, but our batters just seem to get drawn into that station-to-station, all-or-nothing mode when he's in there "grinding." What's happening now was almost predictable -- the team was playing so well with Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF, any loss of momentum was bound to be blamed on PK unless he came off the DL on fire. Which he certainly didn't.

But just because it's a knee-jerk fan reaction and just because it might be unfair to the guy, that doesn't mean it isn't true that he's become a liability. If Ozzie does have to make the decision to reduce his at-bats, I don't expect Konerko to take it quietly. Not many in his position would, but again, that doesn't make it right.

Vernam

drewcifer
07-12-2008, 12:15 AM
I say give him a week or two off to clear his mind because right now he's not helping the team.

Tried that. And he got time to play against lesser experienced players to build confidence.

He's way off. He is not helping right now.

That's ok.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2008, 12:18 AM
I'm no PK basher, but I'm also no apologist. To an extent, the guy gets too much of a free pass because of his captain status and his contract status. I did say last year that they should consider trading him while his value was high and before his 10-5 kicked in. Despite what Phil Rogers claims, a strong case could be made that the Sox are too loyal to supposedly "core" players.

A couple of years ago, I didn't understand the PK haters, but just recently he has said some things that make me think he might not be the greatest teammate. I didn't like his answer when, on returning from the DL, he was asked about Ozzie's plan to rest various guys by rotating them through the DH spot (presumably PK, Dye, and god knows who else). He gave what nominally was a supportive response, saying Ozzie could do as he sees fit. But then he said he's not tired at all (due to the DL time) and could play all the rest of this year's games at 1B. (Lucky us!) He seemed phony in the first part of his answer and selfish in the second part.

I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw. No, Paulie, tough is Buehrle and the team losing after your bum play. Tough is not you getting an E, and I don't want anyone to talk about the "can't assume a DP" official scoring tradition. For Buehrle to be charged with an earned run there, now that would be tough.

And though it wasn't very recent, I cannot stand his repeated comment after every slow start that his numbers will "be where they need to be" by the end of the season. I hope I never hear that BS from him again.

All that aside, it's hard to avoid wondering if his presence in the lineup has an almost contagious effect, and not in a good way. I wouldn't claim it's his fault when other guys suck, but our batters just seem to get drawn into that station-to-station, all-or-nothing mode when he's in there "grinding." What's happening now was almost predictable -- the team was playing so well with Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF, any loss of momentum was bound to be blamed on PK unless he came off the DL on fire. Which he certainly didn't.

But just because it's a knee-jerk fan reaction and just because it might be unfair to the guy, that doesn't mean it isn't true that he's become a liability. If Ozzie does have to make the decision to reduce his at-bats, I don't expect Konerko to take it quietly. Not many in his position would, but again, that doesn't make it right.

Vernam

This is a sensible, reasonable post from a sensible, reasonable poster. Well said.

KnightSox
07-12-2008, 01:03 AM
I'm no PK basher, but I'm also no apologist. To an extent, the guy gets too much of a free pass because of his captain status and his contract status. I did say last year that they should consider trading him while his value was high and before his 10-5 kicked in. Despite what Phil Rogers claims, a strong case could be made that the Sox are too loyal to supposedly "core" players.

A couple of years ago, I didn't understand the PK haters, but just recently he has said some things that make me think he might not be the greatest teammate. I didn't like his answer when, on returning from the DL, he was asked about Ozzie's plan to rest various guys by rotating them through the DH spot (presumably PK, Dye, and god knows who else). He gave what nominally was a supportive response, saying Ozzie could do as he sees fit. But then he said he's not tired at all (due to the DL time) and could play all the rest of this year's games at 1B. (Lucky us!) He seemed phony in the first part of his answer and selfish in the second part.

I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw. No, Paulie, tough is Buehrle and the team losing after your bum play. Tough is not you getting an E, and I don't want anyone to talk about the "can't assume a DP" official scoring tradition. For Buehrle to be charged with an earned run there, now that would be tough.

And though it wasn't very recent, I cannot stand his repeated comment after every slow start that his numbers will "be where they need to be" by the end of the season. I hope I never hear that BS from him again.

All that aside, it's hard to avoid wondering if his presence in the lineup has an almost contagious effect, and not in a good way. I wouldn't claim it's his fault when other guys suck, but our batters just seem to get drawn into that station-to-station, all-or-nothing mode when he's in there "grinding." What's happening now was almost predictable -- the team was playing so well with Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF, any loss of momentum was bound to be blamed on PK unless he came off the DL on fire. Which he certainly didn't.

But just because it's a knee-jerk fan reaction and just because it might be unfair to the guy, that doesn't mean it isn't true that he's become a liability. If Ozzie does have to make the decision to reduce his at-bats, I don't expect Konerko to take it quietly. Not many in his position would, but again, that doesn't make it right.

VernamYou hit the proverbial nail on the head, great post!

JB98
07-12-2008, 01:54 AM
I'm no PK basher, but I'm also no apologist. To an extent, the guy gets too much of a free pass because of his captain status and his contract status. I did say last year that they should consider trading him while his value was high and before his 10-5 kicked in. Despite what Phil Rogers claims, a strong case could be made that the Sox are too loyal to supposedly "core" players.

A couple of years ago, I didn't understand the PK haters, but just recently he has said some things that make me think he might not be the greatest teammate. I didn't like his answer when, on returning from the DL, he was asked about Ozzie's plan to rest various guys by rotating them through the DH spot (presumably PK, Dye, and god knows who else). He gave what nominally was a supportive response, saying Ozzie could do as he sees fit. But then he said he's not tired at all (due to the DL time) and could play all the rest of this year's games at 1B. (Lucky us!) He seemed phony in the first part of his answer and selfish in the second part.

I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw. No, Paulie, tough is Buehrle and the team losing after your bum play. Tough is not you getting an E, and I don't want anyone to talk about the "can't assume a DP" official scoring tradition. For Buehrle to be charged with an earned run there, now that would be tough.

And though it wasn't very recent, I cannot stand his repeated comment after every slow start that his numbers will "be where they need to be" by the end of the season. I hope I never hear that BS from him again.

All that aside, it's hard to avoid wondering if his presence in the lineup has an almost contagious effect, and not in a good way. I wouldn't claim it's his fault when other guys suck, but our batters just seem to get drawn into that station-to-station, all-or-nothing mode when he's in there "grinding." What's happening now was almost predictable -- the team was playing so well with Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF, any loss of momentum was bound to be blamed on PK unless he came off the DL on fire. Which he certainly didn't.

But just because it's a knee-jerk fan reaction and just because it might be unfair to the guy, that doesn't mean it isn't true that he's become a liability. If Ozzie does have to make the decision to reduce his at-bats, I don't expect Konerko to take it quietly. Not many in his position would, but again, that doesn't make it right.

Vernam

As I've always said, who cares what players say in the paper? I don't care what Konerko tells the press. The problem is he can't hit.

Ziggy S
07-12-2008, 03:00 AM
Some people actually thought Jerry Owens was better than Carlos Quentin; that Juan Uribe was better than Ramirez.
Others thought that Anderson should play ahead of high talent like Erstad and Mack.
People have opinions. So what?

One of those people manages the White Sox.

FarWestChicago
07-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Some people actually thought Jerry Owens was better than Carlos Quentin; that Juan Uribe was better than Ramirez.
Others thought that Anderson should play ahead of high talent like Erstad and Mack.
People have opinions. So what?Yes, but they don't state the same one over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over like a broken record. However, you do.

FarWestChicago
07-12-2008, 08:00 AM
And I'm trying to locate any posts saying that Swisher was "done".There were posts about him never being the same after leaving the 'roiding A's. It looks like he's adjusting to being off the Billy Beane diet; although it did take a little time. :D:

FarWestChicago
07-12-2008, 08:05 AM
I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw.:walnuts

If that throw had come from the great Royce Clayton, I would have put it in my back pocket.

Vernam
07-12-2008, 08:56 AM
As I've always said, who cares what players say in the paper? I don't care what Konerko tells the press. The problem is he can't hit.Player quotes in the media can definitely indicate character or the lack of it. JB, I'm shocked that you, of all people, would say what's in the paper doesn't matter. :wink:

I resisted the urge to include something about the one time I met the guy, because brief encounters like that are especially unreliable. I'd put more stock in his press interactions, because that's actually part of his job. But yes, I'd agree it's far less important than what he does on the field. The way he's hitting, he better start giving some damn good interviews!

Vernam

kevin57
07-12-2008, 09:02 AM
Konerko has always had slumping "stretches." As has been noted, these "stretches" have sometimes lasted a whole season.

He's not getting younger. It has to be conceded that he may well be on the downside of his career. That doesn't mean he won't have a nice run for at least some weeks in the second half, but expecting that he'll be a .300+ hitter for years to come, well...

Paulie also lives inside his head too much. He overanalyzes himself, focuses too hard on his technique, etc. I would like to think this is a place where a manager and hitting coach could actually make a difference, but alas...

I think many of us are extra-irritated because his time on the DL was hoped to be a time when nagging injuries would be healed and all would be well again.

I agree that if PK's lack of hitting (or other extended dry spells from the team's big guns) has to be addressed. Not to be a dark cloud, but if in the second half, the Sox slide from first to a very mediocre third or fourth, then Ozzie will have some wrath to deal with from fans if he doesn't do "something." That something realistically won't be cutting or trading people. Working with the batting order is a definite and pretty powerful signal of displeasure. If / When the heart of the order is batting .225, that is unacceptable and an unwinning formula.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-12-2008, 09:44 AM
I'm no PK basher, but I'm also no apologist. To an extent, the guy gets too much of a free pass because of his captain status and his contract status. I did say last year that they should consider trading him while his value was high and before his 10-5 kicked in. Despite what Phil Rogers claims, a strong case could be made that the Sox are too loyal to supposedly "core" players.

A couple of years ago, I didn't understand the PK haters, but just recently he has said some things that make me think he might not be the greatest teammate. I didn't like his answer when, on returning from the DL, he was asked about Ozzie's plan to rest various guys by rotating them through the DH spot (presumably PK, Dye, and god knows who else). He gave what nominally was a supportive response, saying Ozzie could do as he sees fit. But then he said he's not tired at all (due to the DL time) and could play all the rest of this year's games at 1B. (Lucky us!) He seemed phony in the first part of his answer and selfish in the second part.

I also thought his comment sucked yesterday about how it was a "tough error" when he dropped Alexei's very catchable DP throw. No, Paulie, tough is Buehrle and the team losing after your bum play. Tough is not you getting an E, and I don't want anyone to talk about the "can't assume a DP" official scoring tradition. For Buehrle to be charged with an earned run there, now that would be tough.

And though it wasn't very recent, I cannot stand his repeated comment after every slow start that his numbers will "be where they need to be" by the end of the season. I hope I never hear that BS from him again.

All that aside, it's hard to avoid wondering if his presence in the lineup has an almost contagious effect, and not in a good way. I wouldn't claim it's his fault when other guys suck, but our batters just seem to get drawn into that station-to-station, all-or-nothing mode when he's in there "grinding." What's happening now was almost predictable -- the team was playing so well with Swisher at 1B and Anderson/Wise in CF, any loss of momentum was bound to be blamed on PK unless he came off the DL on fire. Which he certainly didn't.

But just because it's a knee-jerk fan reaction and just because it might be unfair to the guy, that doesn't mean it isn't true that he's become a liability. If Ozzie does have to make the decision to reduce his at-bats, I don't expect Konerko to take it quietly. Not many in his position would, but again, that doesn't make it right.

Vernam

I agree that this seems to be happening. When PK was out, and the Sox were rotating Wise and BA in CF with Swish at 1B, there was an energy there that was not there previously. Just a little extra speed and enthusiasm in the lineup did wonders for everyone.

Madvora
07-12-2008, 10:31 AM
I agree that this seems to be happening. When PK was out, and the Sox were rotating Wise and BA in CF with Swish at 1B, there was an energy there that was not there previously. Just a little extra speed and enthusiasm in the lineup did wonders for everyone.
Somehow a terrible hitting team led the AL in offense in June (which Konerko missed most of.) I don't think that's coincidence. I think he sucks.

A. Cavatica
07-12-2008, 11:07 AM
I think he should be batting ninth.

voodoochile
07-12-2008, 11:19 AM
I think he should be batting ninth.

Problem there is the speed aspect. I think it's the main reason he isn't batting 8th because they don't want to put him right in front of TCM. Crede isn't a burner either, but he's faster than PK...

kitekrazy
07-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Historically he's had extended slumps, even some that could last an entire season but he's always bounced back and there is very little reason to believe he can't get himself out of this.

His slumps are unique. This is one of the reason why I would get rid of him. But I don't think he has ever had a high trade value. It's even less in the NL.

If he wasn't the slowest guy on the bases, I don't think we would have discussions of getting rid of him.

There are other players in MLB that aren't living up to their career marks. Just look at some guys for Cleveland and Detroit. I guess many are fearful of "juicing" up. This could also apply to some Sox players who have all of a sudden gotten "old".

TomBradley72
07-12-2008, 12:07 PM
How so? Was I too gentle? With him on the DL, we kicked ass.

We were at home the entire time he was on the DL...other than the series at Wrigley Field...where we really kicked ass. We've been a great team at home all year, lousy on the road. This has been a rough week for us because we're on the road, and (other than Buehrle), our starting pitching has sucked.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2008, 12:10 PM
His slumps are unique. This is one of the reason why I would get rid of him. But I don't think he has ever had a high trade value. It's even less in the NL.

If he wasn't the slowest guy on the bases, I don't think we would have discussions of getting rid of him.

There are other players in MLB that aren't living up to their career marks. Just look at some guys for Cleveland and Detroit. I guess many are fearful of "juicing" up. This could also apply to some Sox players who have all of a sudden gotten "old".

I am not saying that you are insinuating that PK or even other players on other teams were "juicers." I don't think PK is a juicer, either.

However, the "juicing" era has seen many players extend their productive years through their 30s and in many cases into their 40s: some due to juicing, others due to better conditioning, diet, etc. This has created a perception of an overall increase in the length of an average player's career and therefore a longer "peak" performance period.

After a sub-par (for Paulie) 2007 and a bad start to 2008, it is not unreasonable to postulate that Paulie may be on the "down side" of his career. I'm not saying that I think this is the case. But I think it's possible.

Also, consider that Paulie has been an "iron man" throughout his Sox career (other than in 2003, when a horrible season-long slump forced Manuel to sit him more often), so it is possible that all that wear and tear (including his years of playing catcher as an amateur) is catching up with him. It is correct to say that injuries have hampered him. But that's what happens to players more often as they age! They suffer more injuries! Something gets a little sore, and so they compensate. That compensating often results in more soreness or even an injury in another part of the body. Also, like anyone in their early-30s (like me), they start to notice some little things gradually creep up and become a little more bothersome.

Even if Paulie finishes 2008 as bad as he started it, it's possible that he could come back strong in 2009, rejuvenated as a result of something as simple as a new conditioning routine. Let's hope so.

(Look at how much faster AJ is now on the basepaths since he lost that extra weight. He didn't look fat in 2007, but he's much thinner and much faster this year. Maybe Paulie could do something similar; it might result in him hitting fewer homers but hitting for a higher average.)

sox1970
07-12-2008, 12:14 PM
(Look at how much faster AJ is now on the basepaths since he lost that extra weight. He didn't look fat in 2007, but he's much thinner and much faster this year. Maybe Paulie could do something similar; it might result in him hitting fewer homers but hitting for a higher average.)

Paulie is a twig this year. He doesn't need to lose weight. He needs to hit.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2008, 12:19 PM
Paulie is a twig this year. He doesn't need to lose weight. He needs to hit.

I'm not saying that Paulie is too fat. What I am saying is that I hope that even if he sucks for the rest of the year, perhaps something as simple as a change in conditioning programs would result in him being much healthier and much more productive in 2009.

sox1970
07-12-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm not saying that Paulie is too fat. What I am saying is that I hope that even if he sucks for the rest of the year, perhaps something as simple as a change in conditioning programs would result in him being much healthier and much more productive in 2009.

Possibly. I don't know what he does in the offseason now, so it's hard to say what changes he could make.

I think he's just a streak hitter with a couple nagging injuries that are preventing him from coming out of this funk.

JB98
07-12-2008, 01:01 PM
Player quotes in the media can definitely indicate character or the lack of it. JB, I'm shocked that you, of all people, would say what's in the paper doesn't matter. :wink:

I resisted the urge to include something about the one time I met the guy, because brief encounters like that are especially unreliable. I'd put more stock in his press interactions, because that's actually part of his job. But yes, I'd agree it's far less important than what he does on the field. The way he's hitting, he better start giving some damn good interviews!

Vernam

What's in the paper has little impact in the clubhouse and no impact on the field, IMHO. The beat writers participate in pack mule journalism. They ask stupid questions. They take things out of context. Everything that's said in the paper should be taken with a grain of salt.

Look, as Sox fans we would all like to think that the 25 men in that locker room all like each other. We would all like to think they are all model teammates. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Everyone likes Jim Thome and Mark Buehrle. As a matter of a fact, I think everyone on the club likes Brian Anderson. It's also true that PK, OC and Pierzynski probably won't win any nominations for "Teammate of the Year" anytime soon. Every club has guys who are like that.

Fortunately, this isn't seventh-grade intramurals. They're all grown men, and when they have differences, they settle them.

Here's the real problem with Konerko: 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and a dumbass error that cost us a game on Thursday.

TomBradley72
07-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Here's the real problem with Konerko: 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and a dumbass error that cost us a game on Thursday.

While we all have the knives pulled out for PK..keep in mind these stats for July so far...it's been a team effort to go 4-4 vs. the A's/Royals/Rangers the last week or so:

Hitting:

Joe Crede: .147
Orlando Cabrera- .189
Carlos Quentin- .195
Nick Swisher- .200
AJ Pierzynski- .229
Jermaine Dye- .237

You'd hope some of these guys would produce to take the pressure off a guy trying to get his timing back after a 3 week layoff.

Pitching Hasn't Helped:

Linebrink 9.00 ERA
Contreras 6.17
Vazquez- 5.52
Masset- 5.40
Floyd- 5.40

2/3's of our hitters (other than PK) have sucked, 3/5's of our rotation, and our main bullpen guy after Jenks (who's on the DL). But it's PK's slow start in his 1st 15 Abs coming off a 3 week lay off that's the problem. Yes...he's sucked..but it the other guys were doing there jobs (his error was bad, but we still had 1 out with only a runner on 1st, but our pitching let up three bombs that cost us the game) he'd have the breathing room to get his timing back and work out of it.

JB98
07-12-2008, 01:21 PM
While we all have the knives pulled out for PK..keep in mind these stats for July so far...it's been a team effort to go 4-4 vs. the A's/Royals/Rangers the last week or so:

Hitting:

Joe Crede: .147
Orlando Cabrera- .189
Carlos Quentin- .195
Nick Swisher- .200
AJ Pierzynski- .229
Jermaine Dye- .237

You'd hope some of these guys would produce to take the pressure off a guy trying to get his timing back after a 3 week layoff.

Pitching Hasn't Helped:

Linebrink 9.00 ERA
Contreras 6.17
Vazquez- 5.52
Masset- 5.40
Floyd- 5.40

2/3's of our hitters (other than PK) have sucked, 3/5's of our rotation, and our main bullpen guy after Jenks (who's on the DL). But it's PK's slow start in his 1st 15 Abs coming off a 3 week lay off that's the problem. Yes...he's sucked..but it the other guys were doing there jobs (his error was bad, but we still had 1 out with only a runner on 1st, but our pitching let up three bombs that cost us the game) he'd have the breathing room to get his timing back and work out of it.

Good post. You're right.

Britt Burns
07-12-2008, 05:15 PM
While we all have the knives pulled out for PK..keep in mind these stats for July so far...it's been a team effort to go 4-4 vs. the A's/Royals/Rangers the last week or so:

Hitting:

Joe Crede: .147
Orlando Cabrera- .189
Carlos Quentin- .195
Nick Swisher- .200
AJ Pierzynski- .229
Jermaine Dye- .237

You'd hope some of these guys would produce to take the pressure off a guy trying to get his timing back after a 3 week layoff.

Pitching Hasn't Helped:

Linebrink 9.00 ERA
Contreras 6.17
Vazquez- 5.52
Masset- 5.40
Floyd- 5.40

2/3's of our hitters (other than PK) have sucked, 3/5's of our rotation, and our main bullpen guy after Jenks (who's on the DL). But it's PK's slow start in his 1st 15 Abs coming off a 3 week lay off that's the problem. Yes...he's sucked..but it the other guys were doing there jobs (his error was bad, but we still had 1 out with only a runner on 1st, but our pitching let up three bombs that cost us the game) he'd have the breathing room to get his timing back and work out of it.


On the nose. He is one person who may be harmed by the break...the interruption ot his timing after such a short time back.

jabrch
07-12-2008, 05:36 PM
I'd like to see more than a 4 game sample...

ChiSoxIn06
07-12-2008, 06:43 PM
i am a big pauly and would love to see him get this act right but how many at bats do you give him before you just pull the plug? Fact of the matter is we are in a playoff chase (yes its early but i think not making the playoffs would make this season a failure) and minnesota isnt going anywhere so every game i believe is crucial and we simply can't just wait it out for pauly to get right...it would be one thing if he was giving good at bats but he looks lost right now and has been for the bast year and a half...i hope he comes out of it because with pauly right this team is very dangerous.

russ99
07-12-2008, 07:15 PM
Wow, two losses and we have a 12 page thread on how Paulie sucks??

Need I remind everyone that he's coming off a pretty bad injury, one that directly effects his swing and ability to change glove positioning.

If Paul were 100% healthy, he would have easily gotten that double play, and would be swinging the bat better.

I'm not making excuses for his tendency to have slumps, but he's been pretty banged up all year. Maybe Ozzie should shut him down too, since I think a week away from baseball would do wonders.

All Paul does have to do is find a way to fight out of the "book" on him where everyone's pitching him high and inside, and I'm positive he'll have a typical great second half.

soxwon
07-12-2008, 07:19 PM
Paulie will come around, second half and lead us to the world title.
not just by himself, but along with the other great lineup we have.
Best pitching in baseball (though not lately) but still #1

MetroPD
07-12-2008, 09:02 PM
Paulie stinks, we should have hang him from the yard arm. Its not like the guy has ever done anything for us.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2008, 09:04 PM
Much better tonight. 3 for 3 with a walk and an RBI so far.

jabrch
07-12-2008, 09:05 PM
His 5th start hasn't looked bad. Paulie may never hit .300 again (He may - he may not) but I'm not willing to dump him after a bad 4 games coming off an injury. (I know - a year and a half...)

jabrch
07-12-2008, 09:35 PM
PK hits a HR... 4-4 with a walk today.

DFA him - he sucks (same for Thome - after a bad May, we all know he blows too)

voodoochile
07-12-2008, 09:38 PM
:rolling:

I mran seriously...

:rolling:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

gobears1987
07-12-2008, 09:38 PM
His 5th start hasn't looked bad. Paulie may never hit .300 again (He may - he may not) but I'm not willing to dump him after a bad 4 games coming off an injury. (I know - a year and a half...)
When has Paulie really been a .300 hitter? He's usually hit around a .280 clip. Frank on the other hand was a power hitter who could hit .300 consistently, but he was one of few.

gobears1987
07-12-2008, 09:40 PM
I hope some people come forward and apologize for being morons the last few days.

I was bashed consistently in game threads and post-game threads for defending our star first baseman.


Now for my "see I told you so dance."

:moonwalk:

It was the same story with Mark too. Everyone was bitching about him in April and May. There is a reason I brought back the "Mark Buehrle Comeback Tour" from last year. Trust your veterans to recover from their slumps. A month or two does not make a career.

Sockinchisox
07-12-2008, 09:40 PM
Trade him now!

jabrch
07-12-2008, 09:41 PM
When has Paulie really been a .300 hitter? He's usually hit around a .280 clip. Frank on the other hand was a power hitter who could hit .300 consistently, but he was one of few.

2006 and 2002 with .294 and .298 in 1999 and 2000 - that's four of his 9 first full seasons hitting .294 or better.

gobears1987
07-12-2008, 09:44 PM
2006 and 2002 with .294 and .298 in 1999 and 2000 - that's four of his 9 first full seasons hitting .294 or better.While all four seasons listed are great numbers (especially from a player who predominantly hits for power) they are still not .300.

Either way, it's a pointless argument as both of us seem to be in support of Paulie here.

Cuck the Fubs
07-12-2008, 09:44 PM
Told you doubters he'd come around.........

Looks like the lynch mob needs to hold off for a bit huh?

gobears1987
07-12-2008, 09:46 PM
Looks like the lynch mob needs to hold off for a bit huh?They won't. The lynch mob will still find something to bitch about. They always do. They will probably just find another player to go after with their pitchforks. First it was OC, then it was Buehrle, Crede, and finally PK. I wonder who they'll go after next.

voodoochile
07-12-2008, 09:48 PM
Trade him now!

Why the teal? This is clearly as good as it will get. Take max value and get BA into the lineup not just 4 but 6 times a week...

voodoochile
07-12-2008, 09:49 PM
Told you doubters he'd come around.........

Looks like the lynch mob needs to hold off for a bit huh?

Somewhere Frater is weeping softly...:wink:

DumpJerry
07-12-2008, 10:07 PM
Told you doubters he'd come around.........

Looks like the lynch mob needs to hold off for a bit huh?
See my updated sig. He's not off the hook yet.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Somewhere Frater is weeping softly...:wink:

:rolling:

Why would I weep when he succeeds? He's not going to get traded. He's going to be on the Sox for a long time. The Sox NEED him to produce.

:)

JB98
07-12-2008, 10:39 PM
It was so refreshing to see Konerko swing the bat well tonight.

He's one of my favorite players, obviously, and it has been painful to watch him struggle this season.

2906
07-12-2008, 10:41 PM
See my updated sig. He's not off the hook yet.
Dump Jerry, on your Konerko sig, what does "you are time is up" mean?

DumpJerry
07-12-2008, 10:45 PM
Dump Jerry, on your Konerko sig, what does "you are time is up" mean?
What do you think it means? When someone tells you that your time is up means you are done in their eyes.

2906
07-12-2008, 10:46 PM
What do you think it means? When someone tells you that your time is up means you are done in their eyes.
Oh. So you meant to say "your time is up".

RadioheadRocks
07-12-2008, 10:48 PM
His 5th start hasn't looked bad. Paulie may never hit .300 again (He may - he may not) but I'm not willing to dump him after a bad 4 games coming off an injury. (I know - a year and a half...)


Precisely why I have given Paulie the benefit of the doubt these past couple weeks. Granted tonight was only one game but how could you not be encouraged by his performance tonight?

Lip Man 1
07-12-2008, 11:18 PM
Mark Gonzales of the Tribune is now reporting on the web site that Ozzie openly talked about making changes if Konerko doesn't start hitting on a regular basis.

Said he's move Swisher to first and platoon Anderson and Wise in center field. Story says Ozzie "hates" to do this but he has to look at the good of the team first before an individual.

Lip

TornLabrum
07-12-2008, 11:21 PM
I hope some people come forward and apologize for being morons the last few days.

It's only one game!

Besides, the last I looked, pigs haven't flown yet.

Brian26
07-12-2008, 11:22 PM
Mark Gonzales of the Tribune is now reporting on the web site that Ozzie openly talked about making changes if Konerko doesn't start hitting on a regular basis.

Said he's move Swisher to first and platoon Anderson and Wise in center field. Story says Ozzie "hates" to do this but he has to look at the good of the team first before an individual.

Lip

Can someone look up whether DeWayne Wise in his career has ever gone 4-for-4 with a walk and HR...going back to Pony League.

johnnyg83
07-12-2008, 11:41 PM
I'll eat a lil crow ... braised, medium, please.

And if he hits like he did tonight for the rest of the year, I'll violate some established acceptable behavior by most Western religions with a crow.

BoysMom3
07-12-2008, 11:50 PM
My Aunt Rosie was confined to a wheel chair because of cerebral palsy. She was also pretty much blind. She loved the White Sox, and Paul Konerko was her guy. Every year we'd take her to Soxfest for one reason- to get his autograph. And every year he'd be so nice to her that she'd talk about him for weeks afterward.

In 2000, we were near the stage for the banner ceremony. After it was over, Paulie came over and talked to my aunt and took a few pictures. A few years later at Soxfest, she had him sign the picture. When he handed it to her she accidentally grabbed it where he had just signed, and the autograph smudged. Noticing this, PK told her that he didn't like the way he'd signed it, took it back, and fixed it for her.

That picture was her pride and joy. She died two years ago and we put it in the casket with her for all eternity.

So yeah, in my book Paul Konerko will always be a pretty good guy.

Thanks for sharing that story about your aunt and Paulie, Rocky. Made me tear up.

Lillian
07-12-2008, 11:55 PM
I'm sure that all of us who have been frustrated and concerned over Konerko's struggles, including Ozzie, are thrilled over his performance tonight.
Hopefully this will be the beginning of his resurgence. However, if it is not, then even Ozzie has stated that he will have to make changes.

Cuck the Fubs
07-12-2008, 11:55 PM
See my updated sig. He's not off the hook yet.

Best sig ever...........

Funny stuff Dump :bandance:

Frontman
07-13-2008, 12:00 AM
That's more like it Paulie. Welcome back.

Now, if he can keep it going after the break, the Sox are in good shape.

hawkjt
07-13-2008, 12:28 AM
This might be a huge game for PK's sanity over the break and I wish Ozzie had just kept that info to himself..nothing was happening til after the all-star break anyway...just hope PK backs it up with another couple of hits tomorrow and he can relax and re-charge over the break and come out firing.

If PK does not do it...sox are going nowhere. Same with Big Jim.

Craig Grebeck
07-13-2008, 12:38 AM
If this team was an offensive monster there'd be justification for having BA out there every single day, but that's not the case. With Crede scuffling and some guys stagnating, it's apparent what's best for the team is for Konerko to be out there every day and regaining his ability.

lzerante
07-13-2008, 01:47 AM
Hello Chisox Nation,

This has been quite an entertaining first post for me. Thanks to everyone who replied, after tonight's performance hopefully Paulie can bounce back get some rest next week and have the 2nd half he is capable of having.

On an unrelateLd note, tonight's game was great for me as I'm sure it was for a lot of displaced white sox fans. I have moved to Charlotte NC and watching the game on my TV (WGN) vs my laptop was a nice change.

Lets head into the break on a win,

#44 Dan Anthony Pasqua
:bandance:

Madvora
07-13-2008, 09:47 AM
I think it's funny that some people are all over posters who have been critical of PK by acting like they've jumped the gun by criticizing his performance... that has been down for 2 years. Meanwhile, after just one good game people are acting like there was never any lack of production at all and all of a sudden PK is hitting .350 with 50 homeruns.

I've been critical of PK and it wasn't because of just one game. I'm not going to proclaim him MVP based on one game either. He has to keep this up to prove to me that he can still play.

I'm really glad he had a great game last night. He won the game for us and we need him to get through this season.

dickallen15
07-13-2008, 10:59 AM
I think it's funny that some people are all over posters who have been critical of PK by acting like they've jumped the gun by criticizing his performance... that has been down for 2 years. Meanwhile, after just one good game people are acting like there was never any lack of production at all and all of a sudden PK is hitting .350 with 50 homeruns.

I've been critical of PK and it wasn't because of just one game. I'm not going to proclaim him MVP based on one game either. He has to keep this up to prove to me that he can still play.

I'm really glad he had a great game last night. He won the game for us and we need him to get through this season.
Last year his average was down. So was just about everyone on the entire team. He still hit 30 homers, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS about .840. This year he's been injured the entire season (hand, oblique). His demise has been exagerrated beyond belief. He is healthy now. Lets see what he can do before writing him off. Last night it appeared there still is something left in a tank a lot have said is empty.

TomBradley72
07-13-2008, 12:11 PM
I think it's funny that some people are all over posters who have been critical of PK by acting like they've jumped the gun by criticizing his performance... that has been down for 2 years.

He had a great 2nd half of 2006...yes his production was down in 2007...but it wasn't horrible. He delivered .313-35-113 in 2006. That's a solid season by any standard...AND he hit exactly .313 each half of 2006.

In 2007, his production decreased...but still decent....259-31-90 isn't a great year, but not horrible. He was still #3 in RBI's among AL 1st baseman, #2 in HR's and 5th in OPS.

jabrch
07-13-2008, 12:24 PM
I think it's funny that some people are all over posters who have been critical of PK by acting like they've jumped the gun by criticizing his performance... that has been down for 2 years.

That's not factual. His second half of 2006 (assume 2 years = 1/2 of 2008, all of 2007 and 1/2 of 2006) was .313/.377/.541.

Everyone on our team sucked last year. PK was hurting most of the first half. I just think people would give him the benefit of the doubt and not propose benching him (or worse) until he comes off the shelf and has time to prove himself.

jabrch
07-13-2008, 12:27 PM
They won't. The lynch mob will still find something to bitch about. They always do. They will probably just find another player to go after with their pitchforks. First it was OC, then it was Buehrle, Crede, and finally PK. I wonder who they'll go after next.


I think Lynch Mob is a perfect term. I'd add douchenozzles - but that's a personal favorite of mine these days.

Madvora
07-13-2008, 12:27 PM
You're right about the two year thing. I was meaning it as 2007 as one year and this year as the second year. I didn't mean it as counting back exactly 730 days.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2008, 12:35 PM
I agree that Paulie had a phenomenal 2006.

I think those who are concerned about Paulie's production are concerned because of an apparent declining trend his is performance.

2007 was a step down (certainly from his excellent 2006 but also from his career norms). Now he's bad in 2008 (clearly due in part to injuries). That's a trend of 1.5 seasons. Yes, it looks worse in comparison to his fantastic 2006. Yes, it's due in part to injuries. But injuries - and/or slower healing from little nagging things - often are the precursor and/or cause of a player's decline.

I think everyone on here (including me) wants PK to be healthy and produce. I've stated elsewhere that I agree with JB98 that he should be given until the end of July to show us some improvement. I've also stated that if he does continue to suck and gets benched, that I hope he is able to come back strong in 2009.

Let me reiterate, I hope Paulie can use last night's game as a springboard for another good game today, and then get some rest over the break, and come back both physically and mentally locked in for the second half.

Finally, even if Paulie returns to form, I think it is wise for the Sox to be a little more cautious with Paulie, Thome and Dye. I think each should be getting one day off per week, and I think BA should be coming into CF in every game in which the Sox have a lead, with Swisher moving either to 1B or RF for the defensive switch. (Paulie ought to get one start a week at DH when Thome sits). I think this will keep Paulie, Dye and Thome fresher for the stretch run.

jabrch
07-13-2008, 12:40 PM
You're right about the two year thing. I was meaning it as 2007 as one year and this year as the second year. I didn't mean it as counting back exactly 730 days.

Ok - he had a terrible 2007. So did nearly anyone in Silver and Black (including the Oakland Raiders) He looked decent in ST this year, and hurt his hand very quickly. Now that he is healthy, I don't know why some people wont give him a month or so to see what he can do. People wanted to DFA Thome in April and May. He's had an OPS of 1.064 in June and July.

If PK was a bad player to begin with, I could see it. But this is a guy who (IMHO) has been a very good hitter for a long time, and has deserved a bit of healthy time to prove himself.

jabrch
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Finally, even if Paulie returns to form, I think it is wise for the Sox to be a little more cautious with Paulie, Thome and Dye. I think each should be getting one day off per week, and I think BA should be coming into CF in every game in which the Sox have a lead, with Swisher moving either to 1B or RF for the defensive switch. (Paulie ought to get one start a week at DH when Thome sits). I think this will keep Paulie, Dye and Thome fresher for the stretch run.

I agree with almost all of that. I'd love to see Thome sit against tough LHP. I'd love to see PK sit one day a week. I'd like to see Dye also sit once a week. I'm not sure about the BA thing...but I would love to see our big bats stay fresh.

Madvora
07-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Ok - he had a terrible 2007. So did nearly anyone in Silver and Black (including the Oakland Raiders) He looked decent in ST this year, and hurt his hand very quickly. Now that he is healthy, I don't know why some people wont give him a month or so to see what he can do. People wanted to DFA Thome in April and May. He's had an OPS of 1.064 in June and July.

If PK was a bad player to begin with, I could see it. But this is a guy who (IMHO) has been a very good hitter for a long time, and has deserved a bit of healthy time to prove himself.
I'm holding out hope for the guy. He can carry this team. We need the offense to pick up some of the slack from our pitching as of late.

jabrch
07-13-2008, 01:51 PM
I'm holding out hope for the guy. He can carry this team. We need the offense to pick up some of the slack from our pitching as of late.

The great thing about this team is that no single player has to carry it...

shox6
07-14-2008, 03:28 AM
Man I just dont know about paulie, i love and respect him and what he has done for the sox as much as any other guy but something just aint right with him for the last year and a half. He stranded 8 guys tonight. Dear jesus it upsets me when the whole sox team strands 8 guys, but ONE player? Given that game was just horrible in about every aspect but still..

Bucky F. Dent
07-14-2008, 07:54 AM
This is why I would hate to be a GM. Cuz if you have an ounce of loyalty in you, you want to keep Paulie around and you want him to succeed, so you grab hold of nights like Saturday as justification for keeping him around.

Then he turns around flat again on Sunday...whattaya gonna do?:dunno:

PatK
07-14-2008, 08:23 AM
Boy, the "Paulie's back" crowd sure got quiet.

I'm torn. I'd like to see him get his swing (and glove) back. But we're only 1.5 games up. They way Swisher played and hit at first, and the improved defense with BA and Wise in center looked pretty good while Paulie was out.

voodoochile
07-14-2008, 08:50 AM
Boy, the "Paulie's back" crowd sure got quiet.

I'm torn. I'd like to see him get his swing (and glove) back. But we're only 1.5 games up. They way Swisher played and hit at first, and the improved defense with BA and Wise in center looked pretty good while Paulie was out.

It was the other viewpoints turn...:tongue:

6/24 1 HR 3 RBI since being activated.

PatK
07-14-2008, 09:29 AM
It was the other viewpoints turn...:tongue:

6/24 1 HR 3 RBI since being activated.


Ahh...like point/counterpoint.

voodoochile
07-14-2008, 09:43 AM
Ahh...like point/counterpoint.

Good game/Bad Game - after all, not like it's baseball where we take the long viewpoint and evaluate things closer to the end or after a stretch of time, every single game is a sign of pure joy or utter despair and should be celebrated as such...

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2008, 10:16 AM
Good game/Bad Game - after all, not like it's baseball where we take the long viewpoint and evaluate things closer to the end or after a stretch of time, every single game is a sign of pure joy or utter despair and should be celebrated as such...

I've seen lots of sober analysis of Paulie's last 1.5 years. :cool:

voodoochile
07-14-2008, 10:27 AM
I've seen lots of sober analysis of Paulie's last 1.5 years. :cool:

People keep pointing to last year as a bad year. I agree it was down from his previous few years, but .841 OPS with 65 XBH, 90 RBI, 71 R and 78 BB isn't exactly horrific. No, it wasn't as good as years past, but it wasn't exactly BAd. The second half he struggled and only achieved an .816 OPS, does anyone remember if he was injured? He only had 248 AB the second half. Still, those numbers are dead on in-line with his career averages.

Now we can argue about whether those numbers make him worth the money he is currently getting paid, but to say he flat sucked is simply silly...

Jurr
07-14-2008, 12:06 PM
Every year that a team wins a WS, it seems like a second half callup becomes a piece of the championship puzzle. From K-Rod to Jenks to Wainright, we've seen it happen year in and year out.

We may definitely need a starter to take over for Contreras if this keeps up. The guy has had one start worth mentioning (Cubs pt.II) in recent memory. He just can't gather enough confidence in his fastball to keep his forkball effective. I am truly concerned that he won't be able to keep the Sox in ballgames later in the year.

Have we heard anything about Broadway's development? Who else could come up and solidify that spot?

Jurr
07-14-2008, 12:08 PM
Eww..just looked up Broadway. 2:1 for the K:BB ratio and an ERA near 5. Not good.

btrain929
07-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Every year that a team wins a WS, it seems like a second half callup becomes a piece of the championship puzzle. From K-Rod to Jenks to Wainright, we've seen it happen year in and year out.

We may definitely need a starter to take over for Contreras if this keeps up. The guy has had one start worth mentioning (Cubs pt.II) in recent memory. He just can't gather enough confidence in his fastball to keep his forkball effective. I am truly concerned that he won't be able to keep the Sox in ballgames later in the year.

Have we heard anything about Broadway's development? Who else could come up and solidify that spot?

Just going with your theory: heavy sinkerballer and 6-0 since promoted to AAA Clayton Richard fits exactly what you're describing. My guess is it might not be that realistic to throw someone like that into the pennant race pressure, but he is 1 of our minor league SP's that is standing out right now...

jabrch
07-14-2008, 12:17 PM
People keep pointing to last year as a bad year. I agree it was down from his previous few years, but .841 OPS with 65 XBH, 90 RBI, 71 R and 78 BB isn't exactly horrific. No, it wasn't as good as years past, but it wasn't exactly BAd.



VC - that's funny as hell...

Domeshot17
07-14-2008, 12:19 PM
Yes lets throw out guys with good track records because of a bad half of baseball.

People need to chill out......

last year JD had an aweful, injury ridden first half. Everyone wanted him gone, lucky that didn't work out.

Early this year there was call for Thome to be released/Waived/DFA/Forced to Retire. He's been hitting a little better don't you think?

Konerko has been stuck the first half with 2 injuries that make hitting near impossible, a bad hand and a strained oblique. Even when healthy it is going to take a little time to get his comfort level back against major league pitching. The last at bat of the game was a key example. When PK is locked in, he doesn't chase that slider in the dirt and walks on ball 4. He definately doesnt watch the fastball right down the pipe for strike 3. Im not saying he hits a game winning HR, but you can see he is pressing.

I think PK can be a vital part of the playoff run in the 2nd half, we need him to be (Unless Anderson starts hitting 285 with power). Then you look to trade him in the offseason. But right now you won't get anything AND stuck with half his contract.

peelwonder
07-14-2008, 12:26 PM
Yes lets throw out guys with good track records because of a bad half of baseball.

People need to chill out......

last year JD had an aweful, injury ridden first half. Everyone wanted him gone, lucky that didn't work out.

Early this year there was call for Thome to be released/Waived/DFA/Forced to Retire. He's been hitting a little better don't you think?

Konerko has been stuck the first half with 2 injuries that make hitting near impossible, a bad hand and a strained oblique. Even when healthy it is going to take a little time to get his comfort level back against major league pitching. The last at bat of the game was a key example. When PK is locked in, he doesn't chase that slider in the dirt and walks on ball 4. He definately doesnt watch the fastball right down the pipe for strike 3. Im not saying he hits a game winning HR, but you can see he is pressing.

I think PK can be a vital part of the playoff run in the 2nd half, we need him to be (Unless Anderson starts hitting 285 with power). Then you look to trade him in the offseason. But right now you won't get anything AND stuck with half his contract.


He's a 5 and 10 guy...

It's Dankerific
07-14-2008, 02:21 PM
Why do these players think that them playing hurt is better than someone else playing healthy when the result of that production is a low .200 batting average and other low production across the board?

Sit down, get healthy, come back ready to produce.

This is not limited to just PK, either.

Is there any among us that would not have prefered PK to just take month off whenever the original dehabilitating injury happened so he wouldnt continue to play poorly for half a year??? (Same with Pods, even JD last first half).

Cuck the Fubs
07-14-2008, 02:32 PM
Why do these players think that them playing hurt is better than someone else playing healthy when the result of that production is a low .200 batting average and other low production across the board?

Sit down, get healthy, come back ready to produce.


I don't think any of these guys think "it's better" to play than sit.

I'm not a pro, but I do enjoy playing softball several nights a week. I played this entire season with a torn ACL until the day I had the surgery. ( I managed to lead 2 teams in hitting though, so I avoided the low .200s thing :wink: )

Was it a smart move, probably not, but the pros desire to compete at the highest level is what drives alot of these guys to go out and try to play through ailment.

It's Dankerific
07-14-2008, 02:36 PM
I don't think any of these guys think "it's better" to play than sit.

I'm not a pro, but I do enjoy playing softball several nights a week. I played this entire season with a torn ACL until the day I had the surgery. ( I managed to lead 2 teams in hitting though, so I avoided the low .200s thing :wink: )

Was it a smart move, probably not, but the pros desire to compete at the highest level is what drives alot of these guys to go out and try to play through ailment.


Something along the way has to be figured out better. If the player is reporting injuries accurately, the staff needs to say "if you want to play through it, you still have to produce". IF not, sit them till they are healthy.

I absolutely hate this **** of they get excused for playing crappy because of an injury, then we have to sit through them getting back into it when they ARE healthy. Whats the benefit to the TEAM?

hawkjt
07-14-2008, 02:40 PM
Pk will be back.
Take the pain.
Much to gain.
When PK comes back.

NoNeckEra
07-14-2008, 02:45 PM
Pk will be back.
Take the pain.
Much to gain.
When PK comes back.

Nobody's mentioned that on top of stranding 9 runners yesterday, his wild throw on a Logan pickoff play broke it open for Texas in the 7th when it was 7-7. That's two defensive lapses that have cost games in the last week(including the dropped throw at K.C.).

I don't care if he's traded or whatever, but at this stage, he's killing this team.

Irishsox1
07-14-2008, 02:52 PM
Even if Konerko was healthy, having PK and Thome in the lineup back to back is just a killer on the base paths. But you add in that neither of them have been hitting that well, Swisher's glove at first, Anderson and Wise in center, I'm for platooning Thome and PK as DH's.

Domeshot17
07-14-2008, 03:14 PM
Even if Konerko was healthy, having PK and Thome in the lineup back to back is just a killer on the base paths. But you add in that neither of them have been hitting that well, Swisher's glove at first, Anderson and Wise in center, I'm for platooning Thome and PK as DH's.

GMAB

What team in baseball that is winning has speed in the 3-4-5 holes? Who? Swisher just started to hit, Thome has been on fire for the last month, but yah lets take 1 of our 2 best hitters over the last month (the other Dye) and platoon him.

bigdommer
07-14-2008, 03:19 PM
Something along the way has to be figured out better. If the player is reporting injuries accurately, the staff needs to say "if you want to play through it, you still have to produce". IF not, sit them till they are healthy.

I absolutely hate this **** of they get excused for playing crappy because of an injury, then we have to sit through them getting back into it when they ARE healthy. Whats the benefit to the TEAM?

The problem is that if you take a day off for a minor injury, Ozzie will hold you out for an extra day or two so that he knows your healthy, because "it's a long season and we need you for the stretch run." Therefore, a little pain in your thumb (PK's original injury) can lead to missing 4/5 games which can then ruin a hitter's timing, and there is no guarantee that the injury gets better. When a guy is struggling, he will be even more reluctant to sit out with an injury, it's just human nature.

White City
07-14-2008, 03:23 PM
If we could move past Frank in 2005 to win a title, we should have the will and the strength as a fanbase to thank Paulie for his contribution and move on this year.

No player is too great that we should give up a shot at the title to prove our loyatly to him.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Even if Konerko was healthy, having PK and Thome in the lineup back to back is just a killer on the base paths. But you add in that neither of them have been hitting that well, Swisher's glove at first, Anderson and Wise in center, I'm for platooning Thome and PK as DH's.

Thome batted something like .519 the past week. I wouldn't want to platoon him with anyone right now. He's really been hitting the ball well and has been productive the last three or four weeks. I think he's out of his hitting funk.

Maybe sitting PK against righties and using Swish at 1B and Wise in CF might make some sense, though, until PK gets his hitting funk straightened out.

jabrch
07-14-2008, 05:05 PM
If we could move past Frank in 2005 to win a title, we should have the will and the strength as a fanbase to thank Paulie for his contribution and move on this year.

We didn't "move past Frank". Frank went on the DL with a season ending injury. Had he strained an oblique, we never would have acquired Crazy Carl.


If PK is healthy, he's the best option available to this club; worlds superior to BA/Wise.

No player is too great that we should give up a shot at the title to prove our loyatly to him.

What kind of ignorant crapola is this? Nobody is doing anything to "prove their loyalty" to Konerko. And nobody is "giving up" anything. All people are asking is that we not bail on a guy who is a proven solid hitter when he is 5 games off the shelf. I'm sure you were one of the dopes parading around suggesting we dump Thome in April and May saying we were giving up because of him too. Were you also saying we should send Swish down? How about last year - didn't you want us to not resign JD?

It's Dankerific
07-14-2008, 05:10 PM
If PK is healthy, he's the best option available to this club; worlds superior to BA/Wise.

Seems to be no way of knowing when he is hurt and performing poorly because he is hurt and when he's just performing poorly...