PDA

View Full Version : If this true, Contreras needs to get over it.


PeteWard
07-09-2008, 01:19 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1046288,CST-SPT-sox09.article

Be a professional and just pitch. It's the pros and guys get sent down.
He needed to be focused on KC and not on Pablo going down.

Having said that, the Sun-Times would never blow anything out of proportion, would they? :tongue:

IlliniSox4Life
07-09-2008, 01:33 AM
I'm not sure what Contreras did wrong, according to this article. He was upset over a teammate and friend being knocked off the team. What is not upsetting about that? It didn't say he did anything or even said anything to Ozzie about it. It sounds like some reporters saw Jose upset, and then asked Ozzie about Jose being upset, and Ozzie said "**** Contreras, I'm more upset than him". I don't think Ozzie was trying to actually curse at Jose, but just swearing the way he swears, and trying to show that he didn't like letting go of Pablo either. Sounds like a headline writer writing something in that wasn't there.

hawkjt
07-09-2008, 01:59 AM
Pablo is clearly a popular guy in the clubhouse and I understand the emotions of the day. Lets hope he does not get picked up and takes the assignment to Charlotte and he is back with the team when the inevitable injury or trade is made. We need Jose to show some leadership here and get his business done. I think he will be fine.

WhiteSoxBlog
07-09-2008, 02:02 AM
I'm sure this isn't true. I'm not saying he's not upset, or Ozzie isn't himself, or Pablo didn't get send back, but that's not why Contreras was a mess. I'm sure it didn't help, but Contreras has been our worst pitcher this year (Maybe it's arguable and that's just my opinion, but we have much stronger starters). So, with typical sloppy pitching, a bad attitude before the game just added to the brewing trouble.

This also seems to be a big problem with the Sox; no one will do what's best for the team because of hurt feelings. (We don't want Paulie to feel bad, so we'll send Swish back to CF although he's been stellar on first, we don't want Uribe to feel bad, so we're willing to trade him and make him feel useful instead of keeping him as an infield backup where we really need him, etc.) It can't be pleasant, especially if the trouble comes from a fan favorite, but would fans rather wear a World Series shirt or cheer on someone that will invariably disappoint. I love ALL our guys, but I see where they have faults and I admit it when I see a player that does a better job. At the end of the day, isn't their job to do their best to win?

hawkjt
07-09-2008, 02:10 AM
actually, statistically, Javy's numbers are worse than Jose's. Same innings., javy has more hit given up, more runs given up, fewer wins.

MB has just recently passed jose....jose has been decent this year.

PeteWard
07-09-2008, 02:19 AM
I'm sure this isn't true. I'm not saying he's not upset, or Ozzie isn't himself, or Pablo didn't get send back, but that's not why Contreras was a mess. I'm sure it didn't help, but Contreras has been our worst pitcher this year (Maybe it's arguable and that's just my opinion, but we have much stronger starters). So, with typical sloppy pitching, a bad attitude before the game just added to the brewing trouble.

This also seems to be a big problem with the Sox; no one will do what's best for the team because of hurt feelings. (We don't want Paulie to feel bad, so we'll send Swish back to CF although he's been stellar on first, we don't want Uribe to feel bad, so we're willing to trade him and make him feel useful instead of keeping him as an infield backup where we really need him, etc.) It can't be pleasant, especially if the trouble comes from a fan favorite, but would fans rather wear a World Series shirt or cheer on someone that will invariably disappoint. I love ALL our guys, but I see where they have faults and I admit it when I see a player that does a better job. At the end of the day, isn't their job to do their best to win?

With Ozuna going down it looks as if Uribe may be staying longer than anyone thought,

whitesox901
07-09-2008, 02:43 AM
He seems to be an emotional guy, wheather its divorce papers or the loss of a friend, he seems to have problems, but time heals all wounds

angiew
07-09-2008, 08:27 AM
He seems to be an emotional guy, wheather its divorce papers or the loss of a friend, he seems to have problems, but time heals all wounds

I was thinking the same thing. He seems to let things get in his head and affect his game. That's not a good thing when your trying to come back from an abysmal 2007. Right now we need all of our pitchers to be on....especially with the damn Twins staying right on our heels.

oeo
07-09-2008, 08:32 AM
I'm sure it didn't help, but Contreras has been our worst pitcher this year (Maybe it's arguable and that's just my opinion, but we have much stronger starters). So, with typical sloppy pitching, a bad attitude before the game just added to the brewing trouble.

This isn't completely true. He's been our worst lately, but he was easily the best starter on the team a month ago. I don't know what the hell happened since then, but he's fallen a long way again.

Somebody needs to tell Contreras to suck it up and be a man. Too much bothers this guy, and it appears all his problems over his career have been of the psychological variety. If he could stop letting everything get to him, he could consistently be a very good pitcher...but no, if he sleeps on the wrong side of the bed, you better hope he isn't pitching that day.

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 08:34 AM
This isn't completely true. He's been our worst lately, but he was easily the best starter on the team a month ago. I don't know what the hell happened since then, but he's fallen a long way again.

Pitchers go through slumps just like hitters. Mark was awful to start the year and is better now. We just have to hope Jose can get things back to where they were for the 2nd half.

oeo
07-09-2008, 08:38 AM
Pitchers go through slumps just like hitters. Mark was awful to start the year and is better now. We just have to hope Jose can get things back to where they were for the 2nd half.

Throughout Contreras' career there have been a bigger issues than a slump. I hope that's all it is, but we've already seen a couple of times how something can bother him so much that he turns to complete crap.

He's a complete headcase.

SOXPHILE
07-09-2008, 09:02 AM
Whatever the hell it was, Jose definately had his head up his ass last night. That three run second inning was brutal. I just knew that when he didn't get over in time to cover first base on that Ross Gload grounder, it was going to come back and bite them. From that point on, that whole game just had this icky, dreadful feeling to it, even more so when Linebrink blew the save and K.C. came back to tie it. I think that would have gone down as one of the ugliest losses of the year, especially when Masset tried to yank defeat from the jaws of victory again. I watched the whole game, and I'm still double checking to make sure the Sox actually did win that game.

jabrch
07-09-2008, 09:22 AM
Ganaramos para Pablito!!!!!

Jimmy Piersall
07-09-2008, 09:39 AM
Throughout Contreras' career there have been a bigger issues than a slump. I hope that's all it is, but we've already seen a couple of times how something can bother him so much that he turns to complete crap.

He's a complete headcase.

Agreed...maybe he needs to go on the View with the rest of the
ladies and talk things out.You know,sort out his feelings that kind
of thing.

soltrain21
07-09-2008, 09:43 AM
Agreed...maybe he needs to go on the View with the rest of the
ladies and talk things out.You know,sort out his feelings that kind
of thing.

:scratch:

UofCSoxFan
07-09-2008, 09:46 AM
He seems to be an emotional guy, wheather its divorce papers or the loss of a friend, he seems to have problems, but time heals all wounds


I'm willing to cut the guy some slack when he is served 2 hours before his start. I'm not married, but I would think that if I was ever served divorce papers I'd probably take the day off from work

When in NY, he had to worry pretty constantly about his family back in Cuba after he committed what is viewed as treason there by defecting to the US. Again, I will not going to pretend to know what that is like.

These are people. Yes you need to block this stuff out and do your job but to say this shouldn't impact a guy at all is a bit harsh. It shouldn't be an excuse, and it shouldn't linger, but the guy isn't a robot either.

We won a World Series in 2005 basically because Jose put us on his back in the second half. He can pitch in big games....I think he's getting old and his skills are diminishing a bit...and he is also prone to getting off his mechanics. He also is an emotional guy...but I don't think emotions will make or break his season this year.

Jimmy Piersall
07-09-2008, 09:47 AM
:scratch:

Heavy sarcasm...Jose needs to remove his head from his ass and just pitch
like he's paid millions to do.Stop being a whiny bitch because a pal is gone.
You would think at his advanced age being in professional baseball he would
have figured it out by now.:angry:

schmitty9800
07-09-2008, 10:14 AM
I agree with Jose. Uribe freaking sucks and if he has to walk out of the clubhouse to get that message across, I applaud him for it. We can't afford to have Ozzie's love affair with Uribe hurting the pennant chase. Ozuna has been great for us, and who cares if he can't cover SS? Just move the Cuban Missle over.

Jimmy Piersall
07-09-2008, 10:28 AM
I agree with Jose. Uribe freaking sucks and if he has to walk out of the clubhouse to get that message across, I applaud him for it. We can't afford to have Ozzie's love affair with Uribe hurting the pennant chase. Ozuna has been great for us, and who cares if he can't cover SS? Just move the Cuban Missle over.

I feel the same way you do about Uribe,at least when he has a bat in his hands.And Ozuna has been a steady contributor since he's been here,and
we will all miss him.Obviously so will some of the players,Contreras leading the way there.But for chrissaakes,it is not any reason for JC to throw a
hissy fit.He's a mental mess often enough as it is who is going thru a stretch
where he's pitching horse**** so how about worrying about how you are going to get your **** together and help yourself and the team ? how about
figuring out that it's important to stop the other team from scoring right after you're own guys have just gotten you some runs ? how about getting your ass over to cover first base on balls hit to the right side of the infield ? and i'm not talking just about last night.He shouldn't need a babysitter to tell him
those things.

Rockabilly
07-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Contreras needs to his dam job, he is getting pay 11M to go out there and pitch and quit crying about Ozuna leaving..

Im so dam tired of his excuses. The only reason he is even on this team is because we couldn't get rid of him last year, not one team was willing to pick him up

Im so glad Ozuna is gone and can't wait for Contreras and Uribe to follow.

If KW has to trade Josh Fields and a pitching prospect to get Eric Bedard im all for it.. So can Contreras can sit in the bullpen and whine about why he is not starting...

MISoxfan
07-09-2008, 10:34 AM
I'm sure this isn't true. I'm not saying he's not upset, or Ozzie isn't himself, or Pablo didn't get send back, but that's not why Contreras was a mess. I'm sure it didn't help, but Contreras has been our worst pitcher this year (Maybe it's arguable and that's just my opinion, but we have much stronger starters). So, with typical sloppy pitching, a bad attitude before the game just added to the brewing trouble.

This also seems to be a big problem with the Sox; no one will do what's best for the team because of hurt feelings. (We don't want Paulie to feel bad, so we'll send Swish back to CF although he's been stellar on first, we don't want Uribe to feel bad, so we're willing to trade him and make him feel useful instead of keeping him as an infield backup where we really need him, etc.) It can't be pleasant, especially if the trouble comes from a fan favorite, but would fans rather wear a World Series shirt or cheer on someone that will invariably disappoint. I love ALL our guys, but I see where they have faults and I admit it when I see a player that does a better job. At the end of the day, isn't their job to do their best to win?

Paul Konerko is the best first basemen on this team :rolleyes:.

The Immigrant
07-09-2008, 10:37 AM
This is just another hatchet job by Cowley and those of you getting worked up over this story need to take a deep breath.

Hey Cowley, how about at least providing the question that prompted Guillen's response? Or how about noting that Ozuna's batting average against lefties, which you apparently will continue quoting on a daily basis, came in a whopping sample size of 23 plate appearances? What a joke of a beat writer.

Jose has sucked for four starts in a row and has seen his ERA go up by a full point over that period. Ozuna being DFA'd had nothing to do with last night's stinker.

hawkjt
07-09-2008, 10:41 AM
Contreras needs to his dam job, he is getting pay 11M to go out there and pitch and quit crying about Ozuna leaving..

Im so dam tired of his excuses. The only reason he is even on this team is because we couldn't get rid of him last year, not one team was willing to pick him up

Im so glad Ozuna is gone and can't wait for Contreras and Uribe to follow.

If KW has to trade Josh Fields and a pitching prospect to get Eric Bedard im all for it.. So can Contreras can sit in the bullpen and whine about why he is not starting...

Overreact much?? Geez...you ever been in a locker room? Guys blow off steam all the time. Jose has had a decent year...we need him to stay strong for the second half. Bedard is reportedly one of the biggest arseholes in baseball so be careful what you ask for.

Cowley just admitted he was the one to tell Jose about Pablo and caught Jose's immediate reaction to this news about his friend and then Joe ran to Oz with Jose's shock and boom...Joe has created a story.

Much ado about nothing. Jose is a valuable member of this staff.

btrain929
07-09-2008, 10:51 AM
This is just another hatchet job by Cowley and those of you getting worked up over this story need to take a deep breath.

Hey Cowley, how about at least providing the question that prompted Guillen's response? Or how about noting that Ozuna's batting average against lefties, which you apparently will continue quoting on a daily basis, came in a whopping sample size of 23 plate appearances? What a joke of a beat writer.

Jose has sucked for four starts in a row and has seen his ERA go up by a full point over that period. Ozuna being DFA'd had nothing to do with last night's stinker.

Hahaha, very true. It'd be funny if Cowley was like "Ozzie, if Jose Contreras said **** Ozzie Guillen, what would you say in return?"

Then Cowley just shows Guillen's response :rolling:

Optipessimism
07-09-2008, 11:00 AM
I'm willing to cut the guy some slack when he is served 2 hours before his start. I'm not married, but I would think that if I was ever served divorce papers I'd probably take the day off from work

When in NY, he had to worry pretty constantly about his family back in Cuba after he committed what is viewed as treason there by defecting to the US. Again, I will not going to pretend to know what that is like.

These are people. Yes you need to block this stuff out and do your job but to say this shouldn't impact a guy at all is a bit harsh. It shouldn't be an excuse, and it shouldn't linger, but the guy isn't a robot either.

We won a World Series in 2005 basically because Jose put us on his back in the second half. He can pitch in big games....I think he's getting old and his skills are diminishing a bit...and he is also prone to getting off his mechanics. He also is an emotional guy...but I don't think emotions will make or break his season this year.
Great post. I was going to post something similar but you saved me the effort, so thanks.

Human beings get emotional when they lose love interests and close friends. Some of the posts in this thread are well beyond idiotic.

Lip Man 1
07-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Contreras needs to worry about why he's been pitching poorly the last month instead of who or who isn't on the team.

Lip

JGarlandrules20
07-09-2008, 11:04 AM
This also seems to be a big problem with the Sox; no one will do what's best for the team because of hurt feelings. (We don't want Paulie to feel bad, so we'll send Swish back to CF although he's been stellar on first, we don't want Uribe to feel bad, so we're willing to trade him and make him feel useful instead of keeping him as an infield backup where we really need him, etc.)
So, where would Konerko play if Swisher stayed at first? Would we just leave him out of our lineup? Platoon him at DH? Maybe he could pick up the catching gear again and start catching. :scratch:

Uribe isn't going anywhere unless they have another guy to come off the bench and take that utility infielder role. Don't think that if they deal him, they're just going to rely on Cabrera, Alexei and Crede to play every game from here on out.

Optipessimism
07-09-2008, 11:05 AM
Contreras needs to worry about why he's been pitching poorly the last month instead of who or who isn't on the team.

Lip
I don't know enough about throwing a forkball to know how to "find it" when it's "gone," but I'm guessing it just comes and goes. As long as he's healthy and throwing his fastball with some life I don't know what else he can do. He needs that forkball.

KenBerryGrab
07-09-2008, 11:18 AM
If KW has to trade Josh Fields and a pitching prospect to get Eric Bedard im all for it.. So can Contreras can sit in the bullpen and whine about why he is not starting...

Um, Erik Bedard has not endeared himself to the Orioles or the Mariners. If you think Jose is a whiny ass, you haven't seen or heard Bedard in action.

WhiteSoxBlog
07-09-2008, 11:35 AM
So, where would Konerko play if Swisher stayed at first? Would we just leave him out of our lineup? Platoon him at DH? Maybe he could pick up the catching gear again and start catching. :scratch:

Uribe isn't going anywhere unless they have another guy to come off the bench and take that utility infielder role. Don't think that if they deal him, they're just going to rely on Cabrera, Alexei and Crede to play every game from here on out.

Exactly my point. Worrying about Konerko's playing time. It shouldn't matter if he doesn't have a job (unless, of course, you're mourning his salary), everyone should be happy that there's someone else doing a better job.

I'm not saying throw him out of the lineup just yet. He was doing fine at first, and he still has time to get back his game this year.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, there's more concern about hurt feelings than there is about the big picture.

MISoxfan
07-09-2008, 12:03 PM
Konerko isn't playing first because the team is worried about his feelings. What you are doing is completely making things up and complaining about it. You are also completely ignoring the fact that Paul is a better fielder and hitter than Nick Swisher.

JGarlandrules20
07-09-2008, 12:04 PM
Exactly my point. Worrying about Konerko's playing time. It shouldn't matter if he doesn't have a job (unless, of course, you're mourning his salary), everyone should be happy that there's someone else doing a better job.

I'm not saying throw him out of the lineup just yet. He was doing fine at first, and he still has time to get back his game this year.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, there's more concern about hurt feelings than there is about the big picture.
Mourning his salary? Huh? :?:

I'm not worrying about his playing time. It shouldn't be an issue, he's a starter. He's one of the best hitters in our lineup, when he doesn't have nagging injuries holding him back, and he needs to be in the lineup.

whitesox901
07-09-2008, 01:08 PM
These are people. Yes you need to block this stuff out and do your job but to say this shouldn't impact a guy at all is a bit harsh. It shouldn't be an excuse, and it shouldn't linger, but the guy isn't a robot either.



I totally agree with you %100 man, He deserves some slack, he's gone through a lot in life, but as you said, its shouldnt linger, but he's also not a robot

oeo
07-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Konerko isn't playing first because the team is worried about his feelings. What you are doing is completely making things up and complaining about it. You are also completely ignoring the fact that Paul is a better fielder and hitter than Nick Swisher.

Not disagreeing with you, but Swisher >>> Konerko defensively. Konerko has almost no range. About the only thing he does well is pick the ball, and Swisher can do that too.

Pinar_del_Rio_WS
07-09-2008, 02:41 PM
he started in a powerfull way, but his last 5 starts had been terrible, at least he doesn´t got any homerun yesterday, he got 8 in the previous 4 starts.

I think he has to concentrate a little more in his pitching above all.

hawkjt
07-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Actually, coming into last nite Jose had 8 quality starts in his last 10 starts...he had a great run in May/early June of 7 straight q starts.
He will be fine...if he is healthy.

The Immigrant
07-09-2008, 03:00 PM
Actually, coming into last nite Jose had 8 quality starts in his last 10 starts...he had a great run in May/early June of 7 straight q starts.

Not quite. Three of his last six starts were "not quality" (at DET, at CHC, at KC) as he gave up at least 5 ER in each. He barely escaped with 3 ER in each of the other three starts, as he left the bases loaded several times against the Rockies, Cubs (at home) and Indians and did not look very comfortable on the mound in those outings.

Since that June 10 game at DET, he has looked like last year's Jose. Hopefully he makes some adjustments in the second half.

IlliniSox4Life
07-09-2008, 03:04 PM
Not disagreeing with you, but Swisher >>> Konerko defensively. Konerko has almost no range. About the only thing he does well is pick the ball, and Swisher can do that too.

Swisher may have better range, but Paulie is exponentially better at picking balls and receiving throws, which I would consider to be more important for a first baseman than a little bit more range. It hasn't seemed to hurt Swish yet, but he has picked some balls closer to the bag and behind the bag when Paulie would have been in front of it. Swisher is a fine 1B, but Paulie is actually a very good defensive 1B.

Rockabilly
07-09-2008, 03:24 PM
If Contreras wants to be with Ozuna so bad, than give him his release as well and they can stand in line together at the unemployment office...

WhiteSoxBlog
07-09-2008, 03:26 PM
If Contreras wants to be with Ozuna so bad, than give him his release as well and they can stand in line together at the unemployment office...
The can get drafted by the Twins, Indians, or Cubs.

oeo
07-09-2008, 03:31 PM
Swisher may have better range, but Paulie is exponentially better at picking balls and receiving throws, which I would consider to be more important for a first baseman than a little bit more range. It hasn't seemed to hurt Swish yet, but he has picked some balls closer to the bag and behind the bag when Paulie would have been in front of it. Swisher is a fine 1B, but Paulie is actually a very good defensive 1B.

Receiving throws? Are you kidding me? I can receive throws, you can receive throws. If you can catch the ball, you can receive a throw. How is one better at that?

Swisher can pick it, too. Add the better range, and he's definitely a better defender than Paulie. Also, Swisher's athletic ability definitely outdoes Konerko's...while you don't necessarily need that at 1B, it does nothing but help. When Swisher is at 1B, we probably have the best all-around defensive infield in baseball.

JGarlandrules20
07-09-2008, 03:43 PM
Receiving throws? Are you kidding me? I can receive throws, you can receive throws. If you can catch the ball, you can receive a throw. How is one better at that?

Swisher can pick it, too. Add the better range, and he's definitely a better defender than Paulie. Also, Swisher's athletic ability definitely outdoes Konerko's...while you don't necessarily need that at 1B, it does nothing but help. When Swisher is at 1B, we probably have the best all-around defensive infield in baseball.
It seems to me that Swisher often falls off to the other side of the bag to receive an errant throw. PK is better about making sure he's in a position to catch it before he has to resort to that. With Swisher, there's more of a chance for a nasty collision.

I agree Swisher has more athleticism and range on his side but PK can pick and put the tag on very well, also.

The Immigrant
07-09-2008, 03:54 PM
It seems to me that Swisher often falls off to the other side of the bag to receive an errant throw. PK is better about making sure he's in a position to catch it before he has to resort to that. With Swisher, there's more of a chance for a nasty collision.

That's because Swisher is a lefty. He stands on the left side of the bag to receive throws.

DickAllen72
07-09-2008, 04:13 PM
This is just another hatchet job by Cowley and those of you getting worked up over this story need to take a deep breath.

Hey Cowley, how about at least providing the question that prompted Guillen's response? Or how about noting that Ozuna's batting average against lefties, which you apparently will continue quoting on a daily basis, came in a whopping sample size of 23 plate appearances? What a joke of a beat writer.

Jose has sucked for four starts in a row and has seen his ERA go up by a full point over that period. Ozuna being DFA'd had nothing to do with last night's stinker.
I agree with you about Cowley. He's always trying to stir up some ****. Why any of the Sox players and coaches still give him any more than the time of day is baffling considering his track record. They have to talk to him somewhat since he is the SunTimes' beat reporter, but they should keep him at arm's length.