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View Full Version : Trib compares the 08 team to the 05 team


gobears1987
07-08-2008, 11:05 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080707-chicago-white-sox,1,6799853.story

This is a pretty good read. For all the complaining we have about our offense, the 08 hitters are definitely outdoing the 05 squad. Even the pitching is better thus far. I didn't realize the 05 squad was only 9th in runs scored.

JB98
07-08-2008, 11:10 AM
It was a slow news day.

2005 Sox road record: 52-29
2008 Sox road record: 19-24

This year's team is going to have to start winning on the road if it wants to be great.

wassagstdu
07-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Only one stat matters: W

kittle42
07-08-2008, 11:13 AM
Can they compare the 2008 Cubs to the 1908 Cubs? I've been waiting for that Derrek Lee/Frank Chance writeup.

FielderJones
07-08-2008, 11:18 AM
Can they compare the 2008 Cubs to the 1908 Cubs? I've been waiting for that Derrek Lee/Frank Chance writeup.

Three-Finger Brown has it all over Zambrano.

munchman33
07-08-2008, 11:36 AM
The '05 team scored more consistently. Less runs, but better offense. The ability to put up tons of runs against bad pitching doesn't make an offense good. The ability to scrape runs against great pitching does.

Eddo144
07-08-2008, 11:41 AM
The '05 team scored more consistently. Less runs, but better offense. The ability to put up tons of runs against bad pitching doesn't make an offense good. The ability to scrape runs against great pitching does.
You could very well be correct, that the '05 team scored more consistently, but do you have any proof? Standard deviations of runs scored? Number of times being shut out? Number of times scoring 10+ runs?

SOXPHILE
07-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Can they compare the 2008 Cubs to the 1908 Cubs? I've been waiting for that Derrek Lee/Frank Chance writeup.

You know what they should do ? As another tribute to it being the 100th anniversary of the Cubs last World Series title, the Tribune should begin counting down the last 100 games of this season by running a summary of each of the last 100 years, 1 year each day ! Oh, wait.......

palehozenychicty
07-08-2008, 11:48 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080707-chicago-white-sox,1,6799853.story

This is a pretty good read. For all the complaining we have about our offense, the 08 hitters are definitely outdoing the 05 squad. Even the pitching is better thus far. I didn't realize the 05 squad was only 9th in runs scored.

The 05 offense was schizophrenically below average. They had great power and sacrificed well, but that was it. There were enough heart attacks in that regular season, much less the postseason. :D:

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 11:52 AM
You could very well be correct, that the '05 team scored more consistently, but do you have any proof? Standard deviations of runs scored? Number of times being shut out? Number of times scoring 10+ runs?

By my count, which admittedly may be off b/c it was a hand count going through every game, the 2005 White Sox scored 2 runs or less 49 times. If I remember correctly, the 2008 version has scored 2 runs or less 18 times so far this year.

WisSoxFan
07-08-2008, 11:58 AM
It was a slow news day.

2005 Sox road record: 52-29
2008 Sox road record: 19-24

This year's team is going to have to start winning on the road if it wants to be great.

That road record is amazing. I had forgotten how good they were on the road in '05. Throw in a 6-0 post-season road record - wow!

Eddo144
07-08-2008, 12:02 PM
You could very well be correct, that the '05 team scored more consistently, but do you have any proof? Standard deviations of runs scored? Number of times being shut out? Number of times scoring 10+ runs?
To answer my own question:

2005 White Sox
Runs per game: 4.08
Standard deviation: 2.37

2008 White Sox
Runs per game: 4.80
Standard deviation: 3.53

So yes, the offense is less consistent this year, but they score three-quarters of a run more per game! I'd gladly take this year's model.

Lip Man 1
07-08-2008, 12:15 PM
In 2005 the Sox played a total of 48 games where they scored two runs or less.

Their record: 15-33 .312

So far in 2008 the Sox have played a total of 26 games where they scored two runs or less.

Their record (so far): 3-23 .115

Obviously the 05 club found a way to win much more low scoring games then the 08 team is doing.

Lip

krohnjw
07-08-2008, 12:18 PM
To answer my own question:

2005 White Sox
Runs per game: 4.08
Standard deviation: 2.37

2008 White Sox
Runs per game: 4.80
Standard deviation: 3.53

So yes, the offense is less consistent this year, but they score three-quarters of a run more per game! I'd gladly take this year's model.

We are definitely scoring more, but we have already eclipsed the number of times shut out and 10+ run games.

2005: (Regular season)
Shutout: 7 times
10+: 8 times

2008: (88 games)
Shutout: 8 times
10+: 9 times

Combine that with our abysmal record when scoring 2 or less runs and that has me more worried when it comes to playoff baseball - especially a short series.

thomas35forever
07-08-2008, 12:26 PM
We may have better stats this year than in '05, but comparing this team to that team is pushing it a little. We will need to win on the road and continue to get clutch hitting if we want to play in October. A World Series victory isn't even as certain this year as it was three years ago.

chisoxfanatic
07-08-2008, 12:28 PM
It was a slow news day.

2005 Sox road record: 52-29
2008 Sox road record: 19-24

This year's team is going to have to start winning on the road if it wants to be great.
They're playing better at home this year than that year, yet much worse on the road this year than that year. Strange. I think the '05 team was much speedier; but, I'd take this year's power-hitting over that year's. Both bullpens were strong, though I'd give the upper hand to the '05 club in starting pitching for now.

WhiteSox5187
07-08-2008, 12:54 PM
They're playing better at home this year than that year, yet much worse on the road this year than that year. Strange. I think the '05 team was much speedier; but, I'd take this year's power-hitting over that year's. Both bullpens were strong, though I'd give the upper hand to the '05 club in starting pitching for now.
Certainly I'd take our power hitters now (Thome over Everett) but I'd like to see us have some of the speed and the ability to manufacture runs that we had back then. People point out "Oh, well we didn't score a lot of runs that year" no, but we found ways to win those 2-1, 3-2 ball games. With our pitching we can certainly win those sort of games this year too, but we've really seemed to have forgotten how to manufacture runs which is unnerving because when we do go through one of those slumps that we had earlier in the season, the ability to manufacture runs is crucial. We could have gone 6-0 instead of 0-6 when we played Toronto and Minnesota if we could manufacture runs better.

the gooch
07-08-2008, 01:50 PM
We may have better stats this year than in '05, but comparing this team to that team is pushing it a little. We will need to win on the road and continue to get clutch hitting if we want to play in October. A World Series victory isn't even as certain this year as it was three years ago.Are we still at about a 84% chance of winning the 2005 World Series?

Chez
07-08-2008, 02:21 PM
This is based purely on observation and anecdote. In 2005, whenever the Sox got a runner on second with no outs, that runner always was moved to third; whenever the '05 team got a runner to third with less than two out, that runner always scored. So I believe the '05 was better at manufacturing runs though I have no evidence to back up that belief.

kittle42
07-08-2008, 02:47 PM
This is based purely on observation and anecdote. In 2005, whenever the Sox got a runner on second with no outs, that runner always was moved to third; whenever the '05 team got a runner to third with less than two out, that runner always scored. So I believe the '05 was better at manufacturing runs though I have no evidence to back up that belief.

It really did seem like this was true, though I bet when one plays out all the numbers, it's probably about as true as Joe Crede being "clutch." We just remember all the positive times!

JB98
07-08-2008, 04:18 PM
They're playing better at home this year than that year, yet much worse on the road this year than that year. Strange. I think the '05 team was much speedier; but, I'd take this year's power-hitting over that year's. Both bullpens were strong, though I'd give the upper hand to the '05 club in starting pitching for now.

I think this year's club is definitely more powerful than the World Series club. More power means more explosiveness, and we've seen some explosive offensive games for the Sox this season.

The Sox seem to have a lot more blowout wins this season than they did in '05. For that reason, the folks that figure the pythagorean records and such probably like the '08 club better than the '05 team. This year's group has more impressive statistics at this point in the season.

But we all know that those numbers create discussion on sites like WSI, but they don't necessarily mean anything in terms of wins and losses.

Could the '08 Sox win the World Series? Sure. There are no great teams in baseball this year. There are a host of good teams, of which the Sox are one. They have as good a shot as anybody right now. But it is way premature to say this year's team is better than the World Champion Sox, who went wire-to-wire in the AL Central, won 99 games and stormed the postseason with an 11-1 record.

A. Cavatica
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Are we still at about a 84% chance of winning the 2005 World Series?

We're down to 81%. The 2005 Red Sox and 2005 Yankees are coming on strong.