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View Full Version : Harden to the Cubs (Why are the Cubs linked to every player?)


UofCSoxFan
07-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Baseball Tonight had a whole thing about how the Cubs are reportedly interested in Rich Harden....neglecting to mention the fact that Oakland is still, you know, IN THE RACE.

Why is it that every free agent or every hot trade prospect is headed to the northside until all of a sudden they are not (this is rhetorical...I know the answer). I mean just because the Cubs are "interested" (as are probaby 29 other teams) doesn't mean the feeling is mutual. Unfortunately for the Cubs, the rest of the league isn't their farm system.

With all these rumors, people are neglecting the fact that the Cubs don't have that great of a farm system at this point. They just don't.

It's Time
07-07-2008, 11:12 PM
BB and Hendry have made several deals over the years. Heck, last year Hendry traded for Kendall and a few years ago he acquired Barrett from them.

He has been on the radar of Hendry for months now. If you live in Chicago, it's in every paper and news report.

btrain929
07-07-2008, 11:14 PM
1) I'm glad they are linked to every big name out there. It'll be that much more of a disappointment to scrub fans when said player goes to a different team.
2) I agree: they have the prospects to get a guy like Randy Wolf, not a guy like Rich Harden.

Some scrub fan called into the Score today and seriously asked Zach Zaidman why the Cubs aren't trying to get Roy Halladay. I was due for a good laugh, and that was right on time.

Craig Grebeck
07-07-2008, 11:14 PM
I don't understand your complaint. It's widely known the Cubs are going after Harden -- no one is trying to link the Cubs to everybody.

DumpJerry
07-07-2008, 11:16 PM
The reason is simple: someone is leaking the rumor. Dunno if it's from the Cubs or A's, but someone either does not want it to happen (an A's person would be the leaker) or does want it to happen (a Cub person is the leaker).

Since we still have one trip out there on the schedule this year, we would want it to happen.

chisoxmike
07-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Kind of strange they want a pitcher that can't pitch past five or six innings and has a history of injury problems.

jabrch
07-07-2008, 11:18 PM
I highly doubt they have the prospects to get Harden. If they did, they would have gotten Sabathia. Harden is under control for one more year.

The word is that Hendry won't deal Vitters. If he isn't available, they don't have any TOP TIER prospects and won't be able to meet Beane's demands.

They have no use for Wolf - he's worse than what they are trotting out there already.

DumpJerry
07-07-2008, 11:27 PM
Kind of strange they want a pitcher that can't pitch past five or six innings and has a history of injury problems.
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/james_quintong/03/31/hurting.early/t1_wood_si.jpg
Strange? How so? It's great here!

California Sox
07-07-2008, 11:30 PM
1) I'm glad they are linked to every big name out there. It'll be that much more of a disappointment to scrub fans when said player goes to a different team.
2) I agree: they have the prospects to get a guy like Randy Wolf, not a guy like Rich Harden.

Some scrub fan called into the Score today and seriously asked Zach Zaidman why the Cubs aren't trying to get Roy Halladay. I was due for a good laugh, and that was right on time.

Let me guess, the conversation went something like this: "I think Mike Fontenot, Matt Murton, and Ernie Banks' used cup ought to be more than enough to get Ray Holliday."

It's Time
07-07-2008, 11:34 PM
Let me guess, the conversation went something like this: "I think Mike Fontenot, Matt Murton, and Ernie Banks' used cup ought to be more than enough to get Ray Holliday."

You should have heard Kruk on Sports Center: "Can you imagine a NLCS with Zambrano, Harden, Sheets and Sebathia?"

As if he is already a Cub.:o:

UofCSoxFan
07-07-2008, 11:57 PM
I don't understand your complaint. It's widely known the Cubs are going after Harden -- no one is trying to link the Cubs to everybody.

Get back to me after the ASB when the hot stove really heats up. ESPN wants the Cubs to be good and consequently will want to link them to the hot players.

Already the Cubs were mentioned in the Sabathia sweepstakes, despite never being in the running as far as I can tell, as well as the AJ Burnett sweepstakes (which may actually be legit since he likely will be available, unlike Harden). That also doesn't even include the Brian Roberts thing, where Cubs fans were acting like they were entitled to the guy because the Orioles suck anyway and shouldn't bother getting fair value for him (which the Cubs would not suply).

If you saw the BB2N segment it was billed as "Cubs to keep pace with the Brewers by getting Harden?" not "Cubs interested in Harden." The latter is a non-story as many teams would be interested in him. And those teams actually have assets to trade.

It's late and I'm tired, but the Cubs were linked to multiple free agents last winter, the only one of which that actually signed was Fukudome.

Lip Man 1
07-07-2008, 11:57 PM
Two things:

I heard on TV talk about the A's dealing him I'd say about a month ago regardless if they are "still in the race" or not. Apparently Beane wants to get maximum return for him. I don't think he can be a free agent for a few more years

The Cubs are linked to a lot of speculation because they are one of the few teams in MLB that can afford to pick up contracts regardless of how expensive they may be. They aren't necessarily interested in all of said players but because the Tribune Company is now in an ultra-spending mode, the speculation by the media is automatic.

Lip

cws05champ
07-08-2008, 12:03 AM
The real question is, when they do acquire him, how many simulated game no hitters will he throw! And do the Cubs still have the towels that Prior and Wood used to use to simulate throwing?

chaerulez
07-08-2008, 12:26 AM
I wouldn't say the Cubs don't have the farm to get Harden, they do, but their farm system is weak that getting Harden would pretty much deplete it.

areilly
07-08-2008, 12:43 AM
The only really solid prospect the Cubs have to structure a deal around would be 1B Micah Hoffpauir, but it's a long shot that Beane would do an arms-for-bats deal. They've given up on Pie (as evidenced by the Edmonds signing) and I don't think Ronny Cedeno and Sean Marshall are the type of player Beane covets.

But you never know. As said before, given the Cubs' finances it's not impossible to rule them out of any ridiculous deal. Oakland holds a $7 million club option for 2009; not sure if that's void upon trade or not.

Craig Grebeck
07-08-2008, 01:32 AM
The only really solid prospect the Cubs have to structure a deal around would be 1B Micah Hoffpauir, but it's a long shot that Beane would do an arms-for-bats deal. They've given up on Pie (as evidenced by the Edmonds signing) and I don't think Ronny Cedeno and Sean Marshall are the type of player Beane covets.

But you never know. As said before, given the Cubs' finances it's not impossible to rule them out of any ridiculous deal. Oakland holds a $7 million club option for 2009; not sure if that's void upon trade or not.
Micah is 28. Not a prospect.

TDog
07-08-2008, 01:38 AM
The real question is, when they do acquire him, how many simulated game no hitters will he throw! And do the Cubs still have the towels that Prior and Wood used to use to simulate throwing?

You may be on to something. A's fans I've heard from really don't understand why Billy Beane would trade Rich Harden when the A's are in the race.

It is entirely possible that if Beane is willing to part with Harden, it is because he knows something about Harden that other teams don't.

JB98
07-08-2008, 01:46 AM
You may be on to something. A's fans I've heard from really don't understand why Billy Beane would trade Rich Harden when the A's are in the race.

It is entirely possible that if Beane is willing to part with Harden, it is because he knows something about Harden that other teams don't.

You would think, though, that every team in MLB would be well aware of Harden's injury history.

I was at Sunday's game at the Cell. It wasn't the first time I've seen Harden pitch in person, and it seemed to me his velocity was down over previous outings in Chicago.

rwcescato
07-08-2008, 02:22 AM
Baseball Tonight had a whole thing about how the Cubs are reportedly interested in Rich Harden....neglecting to mention the fact that Oakland is still, you know, IN THE RACE.

Why is it that every free agent or every hot trade prospect is headed to the northside until all of a sudden they are not (this is rhetorical...I know the answer). I mean just because the Cubs are "interested" (as are probaby 29 other teams) doesn't mean the feeling is mutual. Unfortunately for the Cubs, the rest of the league isn't their farm system.

With all these rumors, people are neglecting the fact that the Cubs don't have that great of a farm system at this point. They just don't.

Why would oakland want to trade him. thats why i dont get why all these rumors come out.

TDog
07-08-2008, 02:31 AM
You would think, though, that every team in MLB would be well aware of Harden's injury history.

I was at Sunday's game at the Cell. It wasn't the first time I've seen Harden pitch in person, and it seemed to me his velocity was down over previous outings in Chicago.

Every team aware of Rich Harden's injury history. Every team also is aware that the pitchers Billy Beane lets go in trade don't have don't fulfill their promise. (The same could be said for Kenny Williams, but as far as I know, he isn't shopping any pitchers.) I wouldn't expect many teams to be interested in Harden.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-08-2008, 03:37 AM
Kind of strange they want a pitcher that can't pitch past five or six innings and has a history of injury problems.

Not really. They have had Wood and Prior.

TheVulture
07-08-2008, 04:02 AM
You should have heard Kruk on Sports Center: "Can you imagine a NLCS with Zambrano, Harden, Sheets and Sebathia?"


Yeah, that's about as good as Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia and Garland.

ZombieRob
07-08-2008, 09:02 AM
Wonder why the market is so crappy for the A's that they are always downsizing? same with other teams. A's at onetime were a premiere team.

UofCSoxFan
07-08-2008, 10:50 AM
Wonder why the market is so crappy for the A's that they are always downsizing? same with other teams. A's at onetime were a premiere team.

I have a friend who's an A's fan first and a White Sox fan second (she's from the bay area...what can you do). My sense is that a) Oakland has fallen on some pretty hard times lately as a city, especially compared to SF which has really taken off. That coupled with the fact that they play in a massive football stadium, which makes upper deck seats (when it is even open) horrible and a very hard sell, and also makes it less of necessity for people to buy season tickets (since there is no ticket scarcity they can just buy a seat when they feel like it....kind of like Cleveland before Jacobs Field and the Sox during the poor attendance years). The fact that the Oakland Colleseum is so crappy and PacBell (or whatever it is called) is just a few miles away exagerates this point even more when it comes to drawing the casual fan.

People say moneyball is a failure b/c it has never won a World Series. Well I say that is probably a pretty unfair judgement given Oakland's payroll. The Sox pretty much are a moneyball team this year, so hoepfully we will break through.

GAsoxfan
07-08-2008, 11:27 AM
I have a friend who's an A's fan first and a White Sox fan second (she's from the bay area...what can you do). My sense is that a) Oakland has fallen on some pretty hard times lately as a city, especially compared to SF which has really taken off. That coupled with the fact that they play in a massive football stadium, which makes upper deck seats (when it is even open) horrible and a very hard sell, and also makes it less of necessity for people to buy season tickets (since there is no ticket scarcity they can just buy a seat when they feel like it....kind of like Cleveland before Jacobs Field and the Sox during the poor attendance years). The fact that the Oakland Colleseum is so crappy and PacBell (or whatever it is called) is just a few miles away exagerates this point even more when it comes to drawing the casual fan.


Hopefully that will change if the A's can build their new stadium. I know a lot of people hate Billy Beane, but I'm interested to see what he can do when he can actually afford to re-sign the players they develop.

Thome25
07-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Just what the Cubs need, another injury-prone young starter. Didn't they learn from Prior and Wood?:rolleyes:

kittle42
07-08-2008, 11:39 AM
Just what the Cubs need, another injury-prone young starter. Didn't they learn from Prior and Wood?:rolleyes:

They're going for it all this year - if he can stay healthy for half a season, that's all they need.

Personally, I'm hoping they land no better than a Randy Wolf.

Eddo144
07-08-2008, 11:46 AM
People say moneyball is a failure b/c it has never won a World Series. Well I say that is probably a pretty unfair judgement given Oakland's payroll. The Sox pretty much are a moneyball team this year, so hoepfully we will break through.
That's kind of a red herring. "Moneyball" is just finding market inefficiencies to compete with a lower payroll. If players with low speed and high OBPs are undervalued, then Moneyball would dictate signing them. If players with low offensive skills and good defense are undervalued, then Moneyball would dictate signing them.

Now, if you mean "Moneyball" in its more oft-cited (and incorrect) connotation of heavy use of statistical analysis, then the 2007 (and 2004) Red Sox certainly qualify as "Moneyball" teams that won the World Series.

doublem23
07-08-2008, 11:49 AM
They're going for it all this year - if he can stay healthy for half a season, that's all they need.

Personally, I'm hoping they land no better than a Randy Wolf.

I hope they sell the farm on Harden and Burnett and watch them break down in the 2nd half of the season.

munchman33
07-08-2008, 11:51 AM
I hope they sell the farm on Harden and Burnett and watch them break down in the 2nd half of the season.

What farm?

I don't see them realistically getting either of these guys.

Brian26
07-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Some scrub fan called into the Score today and seriously asked Zach Zaidman why the Cubs aren't trying to get Roy Halladay. I was due for a good laugh, and that was right on time.

Is Zaidman a Cubs fan? I listened to about 20 minutes of his show last week before Rongey came on for the pre-game, and he filibustered for 20 minutes about the greatness of the Tigers.

spawn
07-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Is Zaidman a Cubs fan? I listened to about 20 minutes of his show last week before Rongey came on for the pre-game, and he filibustered for 20 minutes about the greatness of the Tigers.
Yes, he is a self proclaimed Cubs fan.

Over By There
07-08-2008, 12:51 PM
I heard on TV talk about the A's dealing him I'd say about a month ago regardless if they are "still in the race" or not. Apparently Beane wants to get maximum return for him. I don't think he can be a free agent for a few more years

At the risk of starting a FOBB war, this is what confuses me about the A's and why people think BB is the greatest thing since sliced bread. His approach has kept them competitive with a low payroll over a good period of time... I can respect that. But it has produced no championships, and the philosophy of trading a good, young (albeit oft-injured) SP just because his value is high is a head-scratcher, especially when you're in the race. It seems like a concession... "we'll always be pretty good, but we're not really committed to winning a championship."

ComiskeyBrewer
07-08-2008, 12:55 PM
What farm?

I don't see them realistically getting either of these guys.

That was my exact thought too. The cubs have a HORRIBLE farm system in the upper levels(they remind me of the yankees with overvalueing and hyping avg guys). And you aren't gonna get Harden for a bunch of Single A ball guys.

palehozenychicty
07-08-2008, 01:16 PM
At the risk of starting a FOBB war, this is what confuses me about the A's and why people think BB is the greatest thing since sliced bread. His approach has kept them competitive with a low payroll over a good period of time... I can respect that. But it has produced no championships, and the philosophy of trading a good, young (albeit oft-injured) SP just because his value is high is a head-scratcher, especially when you're in the race. It seems like a concession... "we'll always be pretty good, but we're not really committed to winning a championship."


Exactly. The Twins do the same thing. It galls me to no end and does the fan a bigger disservice. Don't these people listen to Herman Edwards. You play to win the game.

doublem23
07-08-2008, 01:31 PM
What farm?

I don't see them realistically getting either of these guys.

I guess I needed to put that post in pink.

Lip Man 1
07-08-2008, 01:34 PM
Pale:

It depends on your definition of "winning."

Minnesota's owner is a notorious tightwad despite the fact that Carl Pohland is one of the richest men on the planet according to Forbes Magazine. He's the guy remember who agreed to a settlement from MLB to fold the Twins.

In his opinion (ditto for Oakland's ownership) "winning" may mean making the biggest profit possible.

You do that by having a middle of the road payroll and winning as many games as you can to keep the fans coming to the games. If you win a championship, suddenly the price of playing poker to coin a phrase, goes way way high because now all the players want raises.

Yes there are some owners who care more about the bottom line then "winning" partially because of MLB's luxury tax and revenue sharing, where the most incompetent owners get "rewarded" for their stupidity.

Lip

soxsidesoxfan
07-08-2008, 01:43 PM
The trib is looking to win this year to sell the cubs for a profit. They will borrow , refinance, mortgage their farm system, or whatever it takes to win.

The kind of speculation we see on this thread about the Cubs chances is part of something else I see about town this year. The focus of most people from both sides of town seems to be whether the Cubs will win it or not this year after 100 years of losing.
Meanwhile, our guys from the Soxside of town, despite being in First and having already been there and done that by giving our city a WS Championship, are taken for granted. This pizzes me off. If there is ANY WAY Jerry and KW could pull off some blockbuster acquisition/trade for a big name player or players, I would like to see that.
WE could use a big name starting pitcher and relegate Contreras to long relief in place of Masset. WE could use another arm in the bullpen that can throw strikes yet keep a game close when we have a 2-3 run lead.


Screw the Cubs and all the speculation on every freegin' thought they have about getting that one last piece for their elusive championship. Really.

veeter
07-08-2008, 02:45 PM
Beane will either play Hendry like a fiddle, or it won't get done. Randy Wolf looks more like Hendry's speed.

UofCSoxFan
07-08-2008, 02:57 PM
That's kind of a red herring. "Moneyball" is just finding market inefficiencies to compete with a lower payroll. If players with low speed and high OBPs are undervalued, then Moneyball would dictate signing them. If players with low offensive skills and good defense are undervalued, then Moneyball would dictate signing them.

Now, if you mean "Moneyball" in its more oft-cited (and incorrect) connotation of heavy use of statistical analysis, then the 2007 (and 2004) Red Sox certainly qualify as "Moneyball" teams that won the World Series.

Good point. I still (incorrectly obviously) equate Moneyball with high OBP, low speed guys and a play for the 3 run homer type team and have solid pitching (since these guys were undervalued at the point the book was originally written).

UofCSoxFan
07-08-2008, 03:05 PM
I agrree that the Cubs have to play to win now...and it's not just the fact that they have been waiting til next year for a century. They purposely signed a buch of players to backloaded contracts and will have an absurd payroll 3 to 4 years from now, when many of these guys will be well past thier primes. Hendry did this at the time because a) it was the only way to get these guys in and b) if he didn't bring in these players he wouldln't be around next year anyway. I don't blame him for this. But when you are paying a 38 year old Soriano over 20 mil a year, you aren't going to be able to bring in too many free agents. Many Cubs fans assume Soriano will be off the books by the end of that contract, but outside of Bos and NY, no team is going to pay that much for an old DH (and I hoenstly doubt either of them even will). He's not the only one either. Zambrano, Lilly, Ramierez, Lee, and Fukodome all are owed a lot if I'm not mistaken.

EndemicSox
07-08-2008, 03:38 PM
Not sure if its in the A's best interests to trade Harden. His injury problems make it unlikely he will ever break the bank, and his talent when healthy is only matched by a handfull of other pitchers. I don't think Billy Beane will get rid of him, unless he receives an absolutely ridiculous offer.

Sockinchisox
07-08-2008, 06:17 PM
Jesse Rogers just said the Cubs are in the process of making a trade for Rich Harden, Major Leaguers for Major Leaguers.

QCIASOXFAN
07-08-2008, 06:18 PM
I just heard that also.:(:

jabrch
07-08-2008, 06:25 PM
Jesse Rogers just said the Cubs are in the process of making a trade for Rich Harden, Major Leaguers for Major Leaguers.

That would be a major shock. What Major Leaguers do the Cubs have that they can afford to trade to the As that would be worthy of Harden?

CHISOXFAN13
07-08-2008, 06:29 PM
That would be a major shock. What Major Leaguers do the Cubs have that they can afford to trade to the As that would be worthy of Harden?

Cedeno, Gallagher and some more slop, Im sure.

Sockinchisox
07-08-2008, 06:31 PM
Levine saying 4 or 5 players going to the As for Harden.

SoxSpeed22
07-08-2008, 06:34 PM
Comcast sports net is making it official. Once they announce the players, they will be posted.
Gallagher is one of them, Matt Murton and Eric Patterson look like the players.

EuroSox35
07-08-2008, 06:35 PM
Press conference on right now. From the sounds of who they gave up , sounds like a steal so far :angry: mother****ers

kobo
07-08-2008, 06:36 PM
I believe they just said Marshall, Murton, Patterson and a player to be named later.

kidmccarthy
07-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Its Harden and Gaudin for Gallagher, E. Patterson, Murton, and a minor league guy. O my gosh. BB just got butt raped

kidmccarthy
07-08-2008, 06:37 PM
Only one thing I can say. BB normally wins trades. I think he knows more about Harden than they are leading on.

oeo
07-08-2008, 06:38 PM
Heard Murton, Patterson, and Gallagher so far. Gallagher has a good arm, and is only 23, I believe.

Harden is another Kerry Wood/Mark Prior. When he gets hurt, they have another excuse.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 06:39 PM
For those of you who trust Rob Neyer, he recently said that he believes the A's won't trade Harden unless they are:

1. Out of the playoff hunt; or
2. Harden is not 100% healthy.

kevingrt
07-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Only one thing I can say. BB normally wins trades. I think he knows more about Harden than they are leading on.

My gut says your right. But on the surface this looks awesome for the Cubs.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Wow, that's really hard to believe but I guess it isn't all that surprising coming from the Oakland A's. Apparently they're getting Sean Gallagher, Murton, Patterson, and another minor leaguer. The news is on CSN Chicago right now.

EuroSox35
07-08-2008, 06:40 PM
I think that's it, maybe a player to be named, and the Cubs are also getting Gaudin. I know he likes the Matt Murton patient hitter type, but come on, unless Beane knows Harden is going down again, this seems like a horrible deal right now

SoxSpeed22
07-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Only one thing I can say. BB normally wins trades. I think he knows more about Harden than they are leading on.Or he's got someone else that he can plug in to make Harden expendable and acquire assets for the team. Gallagher should do well for them.

oeo
07-08-2008, 06:42 PM
I think that's it, maybe a player to be named, and the Cubs are also getting Gaudin. I know he likes the Matt Murton patient hitter type, but come on, unless Beane knows Harden is going down again, this seems like a horrible deal right now

Getting Gaudin, too? They have to be giving up more than those three.

Brian26
07-08-2008, 06:42 PM
What's blowing me away right now is that the A's just threw in Gaudin for nothing. He threw 200 innings last year and has looked pretty decent coming out of the bullpen this year.

SoxSpeed22
07-08-2008, 06:45 PM
Josh Donaldson was the minor leaguer. There wasn't much room for him with how well Geovany Soto has played.

JermaineDye05
07-08-2008, 06:45 PM
Good for them. If it was the Harden of a couple years ago it'd be a huge addition. He's just a 5-6 inning pitcher, granted he won't give up too many runs in those 5-6 innings he's just not the ace he once looked like he would be. Hendry had to do this though since Milwaukee got Sabathia.

RTI_SoxFan
07-08-2008, 06:46 PM
Good for them. If it was the Harden of a couple years ago it'd be a huge addition. He's just a 5-6 inning pitcher, granted he won't give up too many runs in those 5-6 innings he's just not the ace he once looked like he would be. Hendry had to do this though since Milwaukee got Sabathia.

Is this official? Can't find it anywhere and it's also in What's the Score?

Frankfan4life
07-08-2008, 06:46 PM
I wonder how Oakland fans feel about this deal. They're in second place and it seems like they've thrown in the towel.

EndemicSox
07-08-2008, 06:46 PM
Beane is obviously banking on Harden's arm problems showing up again, and soon. Outside of Gallagher, the Cubs didn't really give up much. Good trade for the Cubs, not so much for the A's, but Beane deserves some benefit of the doubt. Harden is too good to dump for scraps, regardless of arm problems.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 06:47 PM
What's blowing me away right now is that the A's just threw in Gaudin for nothing. He threw 200 innings last year and has looked pretty decent coming out of the bullpen this year.

My guess is Harden is either not 100% or the A's know he won't hold up. His innings pitched:

2003: 74
2004: 190
2005: 128
2006: 47
2007: 26
2008: 77

Frankfan4life
07-08-2008, 06:47 PM
Is this official? Can't find it anywhere and it's also in What's the Score?It's official! Hendry is on CSN right now talking about the trade.

chaerulez
07-08-2008, 06:47 PM
The A's also got Donaldson who is a decent prospect.

ohthosechisox
07-08-2008, 06:48 PM
Is this official? Can't find it anywhere and it's also in What's the Score?

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080708&content_id=3091876&vkey=pr_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

It's official.

Soxfest
07-08-2008, 06:50 PM
Good trade by Cubs as much as I hate to say it, the Cubs IMO did not give up anything that great to get Harden.:angry:

RTI_SoxFan
07-08-2008, 06:51 PM
Good trade by Cubs as much as I hate to say it, the Cubs IMO did not give up anything that great to get Harden.:angry:

Agreed. He'll be out by mid-August when Lou over-pitches him.

Mr. White Sox
07-08-2008, 06:52 PM
Or he's got someone else that he can plug in to make Harden expendable and acquire assets for the team. Gallagher should do well for them.

I think this is an outstanding trade for Oakland. Harden has essentially this year and next (2009 option) left on his deal, he's injury prone and is at his peak value right now, and he was dealt to a team in supposed need of pitching.

It fits perfectly with Beane's previous philosophy regarding his pitchers: Get rid of them when their perceived trade value outweighs their actual value to the team. See: Mulder, Hudson (that one didn't work out), Zito (FA), Haren, and now Harden. Whether this trade will actually work out remains to be seen, but this is the first year that Harden has been healthy for this long in a while, and Beane still managed quite a haul.

This is clearly the contrarian stance; 73% of chicagosports.com voters think this was an amazing trade for the Cubs.

kidmccarthy
07-08-2008, 06:52 PM
What are the FOBB gonna say about this one? Good deal for the Cubs.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 06:54 PM
Thats a steal. Gaudin is a very good pitcher. Harden, if healthy, is a bonifide ace. Matt Murton SUCKS why do so many people love him? Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher will be good for Oakland. Mark Ellis is all but done in Oakland after this season. Hell he might be next to be traded. I don't know much about the Catcher but it doesn't matter to the Cubs cause Soto is the real deal. I wonder where the Cubs are gonna do next. You figure Gaudin will replace Marquis and Harden replacing Gallagher. Marquis could be used to acquire more bullpen. Marshall you figure is expendable. In ending I once again state Matt Murton SUCKS why would you want him?

EuroSox35
07-08-2008, 06:56 PM
So they give up only one starter and mediocre young talent who are bench players and get Harden AND Gaudin, **** you Beane, at least Florida gets studs back, this is worse then what Florida does.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 06:56 PM
I think this is an outstanding trade for Oakland. Harden has essentially this year and next (2009 option) left on his deal, he's injury prone and is at his peak value right now, and he was dealt to a team in supposed need of pitching.

It fits perfectly with Beane's previous philosophy regarding his pitchers: Get rid of them when their perceived trade value outweighs their actual value to the team. See: Mulder, Hudson (that one didn't work out), Zito (FA), Haren, and now Harden. Whether this trade will actually work out remains to be seen, but this is the first year that Harden has been healthy for this long in a while, and Beane still managed quite a haul.

This is clearly the contrarian stance; 73% of chicagosports.com voters think this was an amazing trade for the Cubs.
Who did the Cubs give up of value besides Gallagher? Murton is worthless, the catcher was going no where with the Cubs cause of Soto. So they give up Gallagher and Patterson for Harden and Gaudin. Another bonus is Gaudin should bounce Marquis from the rotation and possibly the team.

SoxSpeed22
07-08-2008, 07:02 PM
I think in the long run, this helps the A's. Gallagher will do great in Oakland, Patterson should start for them next year. I don't know what Donaldson will do there because Suzuki is solid at catcher. Murton may not be more than a 4th outfielder. The trade should help the Cubs now, but will help the A's next year and the year after.

TomBradley72
07-08-2008, 07:03 PM
This is the best Beane could do? What a steal for the Cubs...Murton? Patterson? A single A catcher? AND they get Gaudin. Other GMs seem to go brain dead when trading with Hendry, I can't believe this was the best Beane could get for these two pitchers. Basically Gallagher is the only piece with any value, the rest are "spare parts' guys.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:04 PM
This is the best Beane could do? What a steal for the Cubs...Murton? Patterson? A single A catcher? AND they get Gaudin. Other GMs seem to go brain dead when trading with Hendry, I can't believe this was the best Beane could get for these two pitchers. Basically Gallagher is the only piece with any value, the rest are "spare parts' guys.
I think Eric Patterson will be a very good player as long as they use him as a 2B and not a LF'r.

Frankfan4life
07-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Good for them. If it was the Harden of a couple years ago it'd be a huge addition. He's just a 5-6 inning pitcher, granted he won't give up too many runs in those 5-6 innings he's just not the ace he once looked like he would be. Hendry had to do this though since Milwaukee got Sabathia.No doubt the cubs got the better of this deal. But I don't understand why because they were the ones needing to make the deal. Beane could have upped the price and easily walked away if it wasn't met. I can't believe Beane wanted Gallagher and Patterson that bad.

102605
07-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Hendry pulls off a lot of ****!

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:07 PM
The Cubs gave up only one piece that meant something to them (Gallagher). So the only risk they have is that Harden gets hurt and there is a hole in their rotation. It's a very real risk, but one you take.

I hope none of the players the A's got do much of anything. It's better for the White Sox that way.

It's Time
07-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Is BB smoking something? Are you ****ing kidding me? :rolleyes:

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:09 PM
Is BB smoking something? Are you ****ing kidding me? :rolleyes:

Harden's past is checkered. That hurts his value a ton.

app2686
07-08-2008, 07:09 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3478902

Cubs get Harden and Gaudin for Matt Murton, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, and minor leaguer John Donaldson.

Doesn't seem like the Cubs gave up that much. I'm pretty jealous right now.

FedEx227
07-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Well my days of defending Billy Beane on most of his deals are over.

Beane got hosed... BIG TIME.

MrRoboto83
07-08-2008, 07:11 PM
It's a good deal for the Flubs because they get Harden through 2009.

It's Time
07-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Harden's past is checkered. That hurts his value a ton.

They just played a clip with Stoney and he said the Cubs only have to pick up a 7M option for 2009. I think Gallagher is going to be pretty good, but he is a year or two away from making an impact like Harden can.

Seriously, Hendry continues to pull off major deals without giving up too much. Haha, he got Gaudin as well? Oh my.:rolleyes:

EndemicSox
07-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Harden's past is checkered. That hurts his value a ton.

Which is why, imo, Beane should have simply kept him around. When he is on the mound, his team will win the vast majority of the time. Of course, he may only give you 100 innings a season, but he isn't going to cost much either. I do think the A's received a bunch of players that can contribute to a MLB club, so it 'aint all bad from the A's perspective.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Harden's past is checkered. That hurts his value a ton.
Considering a Gaudin for Gallagher deal wouldn't have been a bad deal it was a fleecing if there ever was one.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:14 PM
They just played a clip with Stoney and he said the Cubs only have to pick up a 7M option for 2009. I think Gallagher is going to be pretty good, but he is a year or two away from making an impact like Harden can.

Seriously, Hendry continues to pull off major deals without giving up too much. Haha, he got Gaudin as well? Oh my.:rolleyes:

Like I said before, about the only risk the Cubs have in this deal is if Harden goes down with an injury. If that's the case, then they are stuck with a pretty big hole in the rotation and only 1 dominant starter. If I am the Cubs, I basically don't let Harden pitch more than 6 innings.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:14 PM
Which is why, imo, Beane should have simply kept him around. When he is on the mound, his team will win the vast majority of the time. Of course, he may only give you 100 innings a season, but he isn't going to cost much either. I do think the A's received a bunch of players that can contribute to a MLB club, so it 'aint all bad from the A's perspective.
Gallagher and Patterson. Murton SUCKS. He is at best a 4th OF'r. The catcher is blocked Suzuki.

soxpride724
07-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Thanks Billy, now I'l never hear the end of it from Cubs fans at work, *******.

It's Time
07-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Brewersfans.net posting:

" I think the Cubs fleeced(As usual) the A's. Obviously this all hinges on Harden staying healthy, but I think the Cubs gave up way less to acquire a pitcher comparable to CC when healthy. I've never seen the love for Murton. I know he's never really got a chance with the Cubs, but from what I've seen, he's no can't miss prospect. Gallagher is ok, but nothing special...same with Patterson. Aparently Donaldson is a C with great OBP skills, but is still far away from the majors. I think if Harden stays healthy, the Cubs got a WAY better deal than the Brewers

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Considering a Gaudin for Gallagher deal wouldn't have been a bad deal it was a fleecing if there ever was one.

If none of the player's the A's got amount to anything, all White Sox fans should be thrilled. The A's kill us year in and year out. If it makes them weaker, we should be celebrating.

gobears1987
07-08-2008, 07:18 PM
Why is everyone saying the Flubs fleeced the As? I'm sorry, but Harden has only been able to pitch 1 full season since coming up to big league ball. He hasn't been fully healthy since 2004. He's just another Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:18 PM
Brewersfans.net posting:

" I think the Cubs fleeced(As usual) the A's. Obviously this all hinges on Harden staying healthy, but I think the Cubs gave up way less to acquire a pitcher comparable to CC when healthy. I've never seen the love for Murton. I know he's never really got a chance with the Cubs, but from what I've seen, he's no can't miss prospect. Gallagher is ok, but nothing special...same with Patterson. Aparently Donaldson is a C with great OBP skills, but is still far away from the majors. I think if Harden stays healthy, the Cubs got a WAY better deal than the Brewers

Harden has NEVER approached Captain Cheeseburger's output.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:18 PM
Like I said before, about the only risk the Cubs have in this deal is if Harden goes down with an injury. If that's the case, then they are stuck with a pretty big hole in the rotation and only 1 dominant starter. If I am the Cubs, I basically don't let Harden pitch more than 6 innings.
I don't see where Harden going down changes where they are at before getting him. Before Harden: "Z", Dempster, Lilly, Gallagher/Marshall, Marquis.
Harden gets hurt: "Z", Dempster, Lilly, Marshall, Marquis/Gaudin. No risk here in my opinion.

It's Time
07-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Why is everyone saying the Flubs fleased the As? I'm sorry, but Harden has only been able to pitch 1 full season since coming up to big league ball. He hasn't been fully healthy since 2004. He's just another Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.

If KW pulled a deal off for Harden, you wouldn't be able to stop the postings of how KW just cemented a WS title.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Why is everyone saying the Flubs fleeced the As? I'm sorry, but Harden has only been able to pitch 1 full season since coming up to big league ball. He hasn't been fully healthy since 2004. He's just another Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.
What did they give up? Gallagher? Gaudin is as good possibly better. Patterson? Ehh i'm willing to give up Patterson for Harden any day. Murton...hahahahahahahahaha. Donaldson? Would have no impact for the Cubs with Soto there.

rustysurf83
07-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Why is everyone saying the Flubs fleeced the As? I'm sorry, but Harden has only been able to pitch 1 full season since coming up to big league ball. He hasn't been fully healthy since 2004. He's just another Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.

I have to agree...an injury prone starter plus Lou could be a risky proposition

StepsInSC
07-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Why is everyone saying the Flubs fleeced the As?

Man I love fleecing that ass.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:22 PM
I don't see where Harden going down changes where they are at before getting him. Before Harden: "Z", Dempster, Lilly, Gallagher/Marshall, Marquis.
Harden gets hurt: "Z", Dempster, Lilly, Marshall, Marquis/Gaudin. No risk here in my opinion.

Two risks:

1. By getting Harden, the Cubs will effectively stop looking for another pitcher. A pitcher of lesser quality than Harden, but greater than the other guys in their rotation could be lost b/c of this deal.

2. Having a guy penciled in as your #2 going down to injury creates a lot of issues. Someone has to get extended to step into the rotation from the bullpen. And there is also some mental strain seeing the top of your rotation get ****ed up.

I agree the risk is not high, but there is risk there.

Blueprint1
07-08-2008, 07:25 PM
The Cubs got a good deal in this one.

Rocky Soprano
07-08-2008, 07:29 PM
Good trade for the Cubs. Hendry always seems to pull some good trades.
Hell I wish the Sox would of made a move for Harden. IF he can stay healthy he is a stud. They could of had Contreras!

Domeshot17
07-08-2008, 07:30 PM
Its not that bad of a deal if it was just Harden, but getting Gaudin too? The only hope you can have is Hardens arm falls off again

Cuck the Fubs
07-08-2008, 07:31 PM
Start printing the World Series tickets now!

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:32 PM
Two risks:

1. By getting Harden, the Cubs will effectively stop looking for another pitcher. A pitcher of lesser quality than Harden, but greater than the other guys in their rotation could be lost b/c of this deal.

2. Having a guy penciled in as your #2 going down to injury creates a lot of issues. Someone has to get extended to step into the rotation from the bullpen. And there is also some mental strain seeing the top of your rotation get ****ed up.

I agree the risk is not high, but there is risk there.
I'm not sleeping on the Cubs adding another SP. I think AJ Burnett is theirs for Cedeno and Marshall.

It's Time
07-08-2008, 07:33 PM
And shame on the A's for basically throwing in the towel this year.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:36 PM
And shame on the A's for basically throwing in the towel this year.
You have to assume Blanton and Emil Brown are available.

EndemicSox
07-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Gallagher and Patterson. Murton SUCKS. He is at best a 4th OF'r. The catcher is blocked Suzuki.

Don't get me wrong, Harden's potential alone makes this trade a good one for the Cubs, but the A's received 4 players who can help the team down the line. Nothing spectacular, but I believe Murton(.294/.362 isn't horrible) is the prototype 4th outfielder, Gallagher can help a team in the #4/#5 role, Patterson has some potential and solid stats in the minors, and Danielson put up a monster season in A ball last year(of course he sucks right now!). Again, no all-stars, but a bunch of guys that have shown something in professional baseball. Harden can be a special pitcher, but his history suggests the Cubs fans shouldn't get their hopes up.

JermaineDye05
07-08-2008, 07:40 PM
People can say that BB got fleeced all they want, but in all honesty I don't think Harden's value was as high as people believed it to be. Someone showed earlier his stats the past couple of seasons, just once did he make it over 150 IP. Which isn't too good for a major league starter. He's got good stuff yes, but he's been sort of a Mark Prior or Kerry Wood in the rotation, tons of upside but trouble staying away from the DL. Still a good edition for the Cubs. As for Gaudin, I don't know why Beane got rid of him.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 07:42 PM
People can say that BB got fleeced all they want, but in all honesty I don't think Harden's value was as high as people believed it to be. Someone showed earlier his stats the past couple of seasons, just once did he make it over 150 IP. Which isn't too good for a major league starter. He's got good stuff yes, but he's been sort of a Mark Prior or Kerry Wood in the rotation, tons of upside but trouble staying away from the DL. Still a good edition for the Cubs. As for Gaudin, I don't know why Beane got rid of him.

5 DL trips in the last 3 seasons. I agree that that the inclusion of Gaudin is probably the thing that puzzles me the most out of this deal.

Over By There
07-08-2008, 07:42 PM
This deal hinges entirely on Rich Harden's health. If he remains healthy, the Cubs just made one hell of a deal. If Harden gets injured for a good portion of the stretch run, it doesn't look too bad for Oakland. I'm no FOBB, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows something about Harden that the Cubs might not. Harden has already spent time on the DL this year, IIRC, and I believe I've heard reports that his velocity is down recently.

Well, at the very least, if Harden does wind up injured, at least it will continue the proud Cubbie tradition a la Wood and Prior.

gf2020
07-08-2008, 07:46 PM
This may sound crazy but I think the All Star game has become of critical import in the last two days if we manage to win the division and make the World Series. With the NL so top heavy, I really expect the Cubs, Brewers and Diamondbacks (I presume they'll make it to the playoffs in the end despite their struggles) to be three of the four teams. I'd rather not face Zambrano/Harden, Sabathia/Sheets and Webb/Haren without the benefit of a DH and given how poor we've played on the road and in tight game. You could be down 2-0 before you know it.

However, if anyone suggests KW needs to make a deal to keep up with the Cubs or something like that, they need to get a lobotomy. Barring injury, we are set. At the trade deadline, I'm only really concerned with Texiera or Holliday ending up on the Angels.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:46 PM
Don't get me wrong, Harden's potential alone makes this trade a good one for the Cubs, but the A's received 4 players who can help the team down the line. Nothing spectacular, but I believe Murton(.294/.362 isn't horrible) is the prototype 4th outfielder, Gallagher can help a team in the #4/#5 role, Patterson has some potential and solid stats in the minors, and Danielson put up a monster season in A ball last year(of course he sucks right now!). Again, no all-stars, but a bunch of guys that have shown something in professional baseball. Harden can be a special pitcher, but his history suggests the Cubs fans shouldn't get their hopes up.
You can find Matt Murton's every season in free agency or the draft. The catcher is blocked in Oakland by Suzuki who is very good. I'm viewing this deal as Gaudin/Harden for Patterson/Gallagher. That my friends is a steal and a half.

Banix12
07-08-2008, 07:47 PM
Not sure it's a terrible trade on the part of the A's.

Gallagher is only 22 years old, has pitched fairly well as a rookie this season while getting bounced between the rotation and the bullpen and has shown himself to be very effective in AAA. Seems like a decent pickup to me.

Patterson and Murton, neither are going to be confused as blue chip prospects, but both are major league ready players that can slide into the Oakland lineup right now and likely upgrade what they are currently sporting. I think both also would benefit from a change of scenery. Cubs don't have the greatest track record for developing hitters so maybe Oakland can help unlock something the Cubs couldn't.

As for the catcher, who knows what he can do but it will be a few years before we find that out anyway.

Could the A's have gotten a better deal? Possibly, but I could see them making out on this deal.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:48 PM
This may sound crazy but I think the All Star game has become of critical import in the last two days if we manage to win the division and make the World Series. With the NL so top heavy, I really expect the Cubs, Brewers and Diamondbacks (I presume they'll make it to the playoffs in the end despite their struggles) to be three of the four teams. I'd rather not face Zambrano/Harden, Sabathia/Sheets and Webb/Haren without the benefit of a DH and given how poor we've played on the road. You could be down 2-0 before you know it.

However, if anyone suggests KW needs to make a deal to keep up with the Cubs or something like that, they need to get a lobotomy. Barring injury, we are set. At the trade deadline, I'm only really concerned with Texiera or Holliday ending up on the Angels.
And based on the Angels history I do not see them moving any prospects of value. As far as the DBacks go I truly believe the Dodgers will take that division and run in the 2nd half.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 07:50 PM
Patterson and Murton, neither are going to be confused as blue chip prospects, but both are major league ready players that can slide into the Oakland lineup right now and likely upgrade what they are currently sporting. I think both also would benefit from a change of scenery. Cubs don't have the greatest track record for developing hitters so maybe Oakland can help unlock something the Cubs couldn't.


Patterson will step in at 2B in 09 for Ellis. Murton at best could be a platoon with Sweeney. I know Cust is hitting like .220 but he is their power threat. Carlos Gonzalez is their future. Their OF is et in my opinion with Cust, Gonzalez and Sweeney.

Boondock Saint
07-08-2008, 07:55 PM
You can find Matt Murton's every season in free agency or the draft. The catcher is blocked in Oakland by Suzuki who is very good. I'm viewing this deal as Gaudin/Harden for Patterson/Gallagher. That my friends is a steal and a half.

I don't quite see it as a steal. Harden is not the type of guy whos arm is going to last all the way through October (or even August). He might help the Cubs make the playoffs, but he isn't going to take them through the playoffs. Gaudin, I think, is the best part of the deal for the Cubs. He's young, and he can be either a bullpen arm, or a 4 or 5 starter for them, and that's something that the Cubs can lean on this year.

On the A's side, Patterson is a weak piece. He's not going to be much of a MLB player, and Murton isn't a whole lot better. He's probably a 4th outfielder for them. But Gallagher could pan out to be a pretty good pitcher for them in the future.

On the whole, I think the Cubs got the best of the A's here, but I don't think BB got fleeced.

Boondock Saint
07-08-2008, 07:58 PM
This may sound crazy but I think the All Star game has become of critical import in the last two days if we manage to win the division and make the World Series. With the NL so top heavy, I really expect the Cubs, Brewers and Diamondbacks (I presume they'll make it to the playoffs in the end despite their struggles) to be three of the four teams. I'd rather not face Zambrano/Harden, Sabathia/Sheets and Webb/Haren without the benefit of a DH and given how poor we've played on the road and in tight game. You could be down 2-0 before you know it.

I don't think NL teams want to see Buehrle/Vazquez/Floyd/Danks/Contreras minus one very much, either.

getonbckthr
07-08-2008, 08:01 PM
I don't quite see it as a steal. Harden is not the type of guy whos arm is going to last all the way through October (or even August). He might help the Cubs make the playoffs, but he isn't going to take them through the playoffs. Gaudin, I think, is the best part of the deal for the Cubs. He's young, and he can be either a bullpen arm, or a 4 or 5 starter for them, and that's something that the Cubs can lean on this year.

On the A's side, Patterson is a weak piece. He's not going to be much of a MLB player, and Murton isn't a whole lot better. He's probably a 4th outfielder for them. But Gallagher could pan out to be a pretty good pitcher for them in the future.

On the whole, I think the Cubs got the best of the A's here, but I don't think BB got fleeced.
If you think Murton and Patterson are such weak pieces doesn't the deal basically become Gallagher for Harden/Gaudin then?

UofCSoxFan
07-08-2008, 08:01 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3478902

Well I'll be damned. Mea Culpa.


The fact that the A's were willing to deal him along with his 90 pitch count he seems to have had in Oakland might say a lot about his health. If he stays healthy, this could be huge for the Cubs. That is a huge if, however, especially if the Cubs are fighting for a playoff spot til the end.

Gallagher is a big price to pay in my opinion.

Boondock Saint
07-08-2008, 08:02 PM
If you think Murton and Patterson are such weak pieces doesn't the deal basically become Gallagher for Harden/Gaudin then?

In a nutshell, yes. But I see the deal as a bit of wheel-spinning on the Cubs part, while the A's got something that will actually help them build a more formidable team down the line.

JermaineDye05
07-08-2008, 08:08 PM
The Cubs needed another starter, but I wonder if an oft injured pitcher coming into the national league having to hit and run and times is a good idea. There was no doubt CC would do good in the NL cause he's just a great athlete and hasn't been injured too much. Only time will tell if this was a good deal for Hendry or not. On the surface it looks good.

jabrch
07-08-2008, 08:37 PM
That's a very small price to pay for Harden, under contract next year for 7mm. Murton and Patterson are spare parts. Donaldson is 3 years away and blocked by Soto. Gallagher likely is a mid rotation starter.

Harden may or may not be healthy enough to have an impact - but this is a great risk worth taking for the Cubs.

munchman33
07-08-2008, 08:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3478902

Well I'll be damned. Mea Culpa.


The fact that the A's were willing to deal him along with his 90 pitch count he seems to have had in Oakland might say a lot about his health. If he stays healthy, this could be huge for the Cubs. That is a huge if, however, especially if the Cubs are fighting for a playoff spot til the end.

Gallagher is a big price to pay in my opinion.

WHAT?

Wow.

TheOldRoman
07-08-2008, 08:49 PM
Harden has NEVER approached Captain Cheeseburger's output.It doesn't matter. Get ready to hear comparisons between him and Koufax coming from the Chicago media.

I'm not sleeping on the Cubs adding another SP. I think AJ Burnett is theirs for Cedeno and Marshall.That would be hilarious. Harden is reprising the role of Mark Prior, the extremely talented stud (when healthy) who can't stay healthy. Burnett could take the role of Kerry Wood, the extremely overrated, high strikeout/walk pitcher who people claim is an ace despite his performance, who also can't stay healthy. Get ready for a lot of simulated games! This time Kerry will be around to get the simulated save.

If they have Harden and Burnett, they will need to carry two long relievers.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 08:52 PM
It doesn't matter. Get ready to hear comparisons between him and Koufax coming from the Chicago media.



M'eh. Media doesn't bother me any.

gobears1987
07-08-2008, 08:59 PM
If KW pulled a deal off for Harden, you wouldn't be able to stop the postings of how KW just cemented a WS title.
I don't like injury prone pitchers. Why not get AJ Burnett while we're at it?

kittle42
07-08-2008, 09:03 PM
Nice deal for Hendry, again. He got someone to take the Mess 'o Prospects the O's turned down for Roberts. Gallagher has very good potential, though, and Beane tends to have an eye for that in picthers.

ChiSoxIn06
07-08-2008, 09:18 PM
why does it seem that the cubs are always able to get "stars" for next to nothing? the got aramis for nothing from pitt...if i recall they got derek lee for next to nothing and now harden for barely anything...does hendry have some kind of video dirt on all the gms or something?

Brian26
07-08-2008, 09:25 PM
M'eh. Media doesn't bother me any.

Sports radio is definitely a waste of brain cells.

The last time I listened to North (about a month ago), he said the Sox should have let Buehrle walk so they could sign Livan Hernandez.

I turned Silvy and Waddle on for a few minutes yesterday, and Silvy claimed Sox fans were dancing in the streets after the Wells/Sirotka and Koch/Foulke trades, which is completely untrue. The reaction to both of those trades right after they occurred was 50/50 at best.

I admit I enjoy Coppock and Levine on weekend mornings though.

ilsox7
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Sports radio is definitely a waste of brain cells.

The last time I listened to North (about a month ago), he said the Sox should have let Buehrle walk so they could sign Livan Hernandez.

I turned Silvy and Waddle on for a few minutes yesterday, and Silvy claimed Sox fans were dancing in the streets after the Wells/Sirotka and Koch/Foulke trades, which is completely untrue. The reaction to both of those trades right after the occurred was 50/50 at best.

I admit I enjoy Coppock and Levine on weekend mornings though.

I don't think I've listened to sports radio since Les on WLS and the Sports Huddle mid-90's. My brain is better for it. Or lack of brain, depending upon who you talk to. :D:

kraut83
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Somewhere in Chicagoland, Hangar18 is having a meltdown over this. "HENDRY THE THIEF!"

Even though he can't stay healthy, it doesn't seem like they gave up much for a guy that's under contract for another year at that price.

Bucky F. Dent
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
It's official
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3478902

It's Time
07-08-2008, 09:45 PM
Somewhere in Chicagoland, Hangar18 is having a meltdown over this. "HENDRY THE THIEF!"

Even though he can't stay healthy, it doesn't seem like they gave up much for a guy that's under contract for another year at that price.

I just spit my water out I laughed so hard.

soxwon
07-08-2008, 09:53 PM
Cause everyone wants to be the Guy to win the series for them.
The loveable lifetime losers, are world accepted.
Hendrys a thief and what goes around, comes around to slap your face, silly for another hundred.

Huisj
07-08-2008, 09:57 PM
I guess he replaces Prior?

How many starts before he hits the DL with a tweaked something-or-other muscle?

Hitmen77
07-08-2008, 10:18 PM
What I don't get is why the A's are selling off now when they are having a good season and could make a run at the Angels or perhaps the wild card.

This isn't Pittsburgh or Florida we're talking about here. Those teams have fire sales and give away All-Stars to the Cubs for magic beans, but I don't get why Oakland is in that bad of a position.

It figures that Billy Beane is Mr. Always-Make-Smart-Trades, but he gets fleeced by the Cubs. **** you, Beane!!!!

Jjav829
07-08-2008, 10:53 PM
Damn. It had to be the Cubs? :(:

Nice move for them. He's a huge injury risk(as big as any in the game), but a healthy Harden is one of the best pitchers in the game.

DSpivack
07-08-2008, 10:54 PM
Can someone explain to me how this makes any sense to Oakland? It seems they got virtually nothing for him.

jabrch
07-08-2008, 10:59 PM
Can someone explain to me how this makes any sense to Oakland? It seems they got virtually nothing for him.

I'm guessing Oakland fully disclosed Harden's health issues and most teams balked. The Cubs, however, without Prior and with Wood at closer, were intrigued by a very injured SP and made the move.


Gallagher probably is a missle of the rotation guy. Donaldson was a highly rated talent last year, but hasn't delivered much. Murton is junk - but Billy Beane's type of junk. And Patterson will be a decent replacement for Ellis next year - with some power, good speed and decent hitting skills.

All that said - and I am shocked they couldn't get more unless he really isn't healthy.

whitesox901
07-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Can someone explain to me how this makes any sense to Oakland? It seems they got virtually nothing for him.

<$> Moneyball </$>

the1tab
07-08-2008, 11:27 PM
I'm more shocked that the Cubs got Chad Gaudin with Harden for the load of crap they gave Oakland. Gaudin might be the biggest difference maker of the entire trade: a swing reliever who can spot start? With good stuff? Interesting...

Mohoney
07-08-2008, 11:33 PM
I'm more shocked that the Cubs got Chad Gaudin with Harden for the load of crap they gave Oakland.

I agree. The A's gave up 2 pretty good pitchers and only got 1 pitcher back in the deal. I would have at least asked for another pitcher if I were throwing Gaudin in the deal. I would have asked for Hill or Marshall instead of Murton, but that's just me.

canOcorn
07-08-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm more shocked that the Cubs got Chad Gaudin with Harden for the load of crap they gave Oakland. Gaudin might be the biggest difference maker of the entire trade: a swing reliever who can spot start? With good stuff? Interesting...

Yes, that is the key. The flubs gave up nothing and got to roll the dice on Harden. Gaudin is at least as good as Gallagher for this year. They gave up a pile of **** and traded for the potential of a #1 starter.

TheOldRoman
07-08-2008, 11:55 PM
This reminds me a lot of the Sox trading Garcia to the Phillies.

1) Both pitchers had injury concerns at the time of the trade. Harden has been more consistently injured, but he hasn't lost 8 mph from his fastball and didn't have a huge drop off the last year like Garcia. Either way, Freddy was clearly damaged goods, but Harden did look like he lost velocity his last few starts.

2) I said at the time of the Garcia trade, while most other people were pissed at the package received, that Kenny knew what was out there, and he couldn't have had a better deal. Obviously, you would expect a lot more for Harden at this point in his career than Garcia in 2007, but this still leaves a lot of people thinking the GM could have gotten more talent elsewhere. Maybe the other teams were more hesitant due to Harden's history and the way he threw recently.

3) Most people were really down on Floyd at the time of the trade. He was trash and a flopped prospect. I thought it was pretty clear that Kenny wanted him specifically, and may have turned down slightly more talent elsewhere because he just had to have Floyd. Maybe Beane is that high on Gallagher, and thinks he can be great. Floyd has certainly worked out well for the Sox so far.

It is also possible that Beane panicked and traded Harden for less because he didn't like what he saw velocity wise the last start, and wanted to unload him before he went on the DL again.

Jaffar
07-09-2008, 12:24 AM
Yes, that is the key. The flubs gave up nothing and got to roll the dice on Harden. Gaudin is at least as good as Gallagher for this year. They gave up a pile of **** and traded for the potential of a #1 starter.

The fact that they get Harden for the rest of this year and next makes it seem like they fleeced BB. I guess we'll see how things go. :scratch:

chisoxmike
07-09-2008, 12:44 AM
Thats a steal. Gaudin is a very good pitcher. Harden, if healthy, is a bonifide ace. Matt Murton SUCKS why do so many people love him? Eric Patterson and Sean Gallagher will be good for Oakland. Mark Ellis is all but done in Oakland after this season. Hell he might be next to be traded. I don't know much about the Catcher but it doesn't matter to the Cubs cause Soto is the real deal. I wonder where the Cubs are gonna do next. You figure Gaudin will replace Marquis and Harden replacing Gallagher. Marquis could be used to acquire more bullpen. Marshall you figure is expendable. In ending I once again state Matt Murton SUCKS why would you want him?



Must be a big day for you.


Hendry strikes again!

http://bigpapadaddy.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/11315420536867.jpg
"Just wait Chicago! In a few days we'll be announcing Ronnie Cedano to the Rays for Carl Crawford and Scott Kazmer! We have the best fans, the best ballpark, and we'll have the best team ever assembled!"

I want Mags back
07-09-2008, 12:47 AM
What's the Score...

Craig Grebeck
07-09-2008, 12:48 AM
I don't really think Murton's junk and I can see Patterson being somewhat useful. Harden has injury troubles and getting Gallagher for him was a plus.

I think people often forget how good Murton is against LHP. He's a dreamy platoon partner.

I think the A's did alright.

whitesoxfan
07-09-2008, 01:05 AM
I don't really think Murton's junk and I can see Patterson being somewhat useful. Harden has injury troubles and getting Gallagher for him was a plus.

I think people often forget how good Murton is against LHP. He's a dreamy platoon partner.

I think the A's did alright.

Murton can't hit righties, but like you said, he'd be great in a platoon situation.

I don't know, I think the A's got an awful end of the deal. I don't think Patterson's going to amount to much either. Gallagher could be a good pitcher, but you gave up two pretty good pitchers in Harden and Gaudin to get him.

Billy Beane is such a great GM.

JB98
07-09-2008, 01:26 AM
It's a great trade for the Cubs if Harden stays healthy.

It's Time
07-09-2008, 01:35 AM
You know what is amazing about this deal? The Brewers gave up a kings ransom for a rental and the Cubs gave up marginal prospects (Gallagher has the best chance to pan out) for a pitcher who is every bit as good as CC, especially if he stays on the mound. Not only that, Harden is Cubs property in 2009.


If I'm a Brewers fan, I'm a bit steamed.

StillMissOzzie
07-09-2008, 01:42 AM
My guess is Harden is either not 100% or the A's know he won't hold up. His innings pitched:

2003: 74
2004: 190
2005: 128
2006: 47
2007: 26
2008: 77

So what you're saying is that he has less than three full seasons on that arm over the last six years.
At least the Cubs have a lot of experience dealing with oft-injured pitchers. Go ahead, Lou, run him into the ground!

SMO
:gulp:

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 03:06 AM
You know what is amazing about this deal? The Brewers gave up a kings ransom for a rental and the Cubs gave up marginal prospects (Gallagher has the best chance to pan out) for a pitcher who is every bit as good as CC, especially if he stays on the mound. Not only that, Harden is Cubs property in 2009.


If I'm a Brewers fan, I'm a bit steamed.

I said it before and I will say it again: show me some piece of evidence that Harden has EVER produced the output that Captain Cheeseburger has.

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 03:07 AM
So what you're saying is that he has less than three full seasons on that arm over the last six years.
At least the Cubs have a lot of experience dealing with oft-injured pitchers. Go ahead, Lou, run him into the ground!

SMO
:gulp:

It's a roll of the dice. Like I said before, I don't let him go more than 6 innings this year. Luckily for the Cubs, they did not give up many (if any) pieces that were of current value to them.

white sox bill
07-09-2008, 07:34 AM
The question remains: Is Hendry the best GM in MLB OR doesn't he realize all that glitters isn't gold? Time will tell on this one

white sox bill
07-09-2008, 08:30 AM
Another thing I think Hardin should prosper when going from Major League down to AAAA level

russ99
07-09-2008, 08:43 AM
It's a roll of the dice. Like I said before, I don't let him go more than 6 innings this year. Luckily for the Cubs, they did not give up many (if any) pieces that were of current value to them.

Well if it's any consolation, the Cubs gave up all their backup players, and now they're in big trouble in case there are further injuries. Who will they plug in if someone gets hurt now? I'm intrigued as to who they'll send down and better yet bring up to cut a pitcher. Pie has already show he can't cut it. Who's left?

Also, Harden and Wood are fragile, so I have doubts each will make it through the season.

PatK
07-09-2008, 09:21 AM
Not including this year, Harden is a guy that's averaged only 93 innings a season.

That's not exactly the type of arm you can rely on down the stretch or in the playoffs, especially if he'll have to pitch on short notice.

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 09:28 AM
Not including this year, Harden is a guy that's averaged only 93 innings a season.

That's not exactly the type of arm you can rely on down the stretch or in the playoffs, especially if he'll have to pitch on short notice.

From reading a handful of articles this morning, there is speculation that BB made the trade now while Harden at least had some value. His start against the Sox and his start before that, scouts were reporting that his velocity was down significantly and his stuff wasn't all there. This sure is an interesting ordeal.

palehozenychicty
07-09-2008, 09:29 AM
This reminds me a lot of the Sox trading Garcia to the Phillies.

1) Both pitchers had injury concerns at the time of the trade. Harden has been more consistently injured, but he hasn't lost 8 mph from his fastball and didn't have a huge drop off the last year like Garcia. Either way, Freddy was clearly damaged goods, but Harden did look like he lost velocity his last few starts.

2) I said at the time of the Garcia trade, while most other people were pissed at the package received, that Kenny knew what was out there, and he couldn't have had a better deal. Obviously, you would expect a lot more for Harden at this point in his career than Garcia in 2007, but this still leaves a lot of people thinking the GM could have gotten more talent elsewhere. Maybe the other teams were more hesitant due to Harden's history and the way he threw recently.

3) Most people were really down on Floyd at the time of the trade. He was trash and a flopped prospect. I thought it was pretty clear that Kenny wanted him specifically, and may have turned down slightly more talent elsewhere because he just had to have Floyd. Maybe Beane is that high on Gallagher, and thinks he can be great. Floyd has certainly worked out well for the Sox so far.

It is also possible that Beane panicked and traded Harden for less because he didn't like what he saw velocity wise the last start, and wanted to unload him before he went on the DL again.

I think that Beane had serious doubts about Harden and got the best assemblage of bodies available. Harden, with all his talent, is made of glass. Anybody here really believe that they can trust his arm to and through October? C'mon.

Now Gaudin was a steal, and strange to make when you are still in contention. But I'm not too surprised. This is the same GM who disses the postseason as a crapshoot.

SOXPHILE
07-09-2008, 09:50 AM
Congrats Billy Beane. You just got pantsed. You're still in contention, and you gave up Rich Harden & Chad Gaudin for Sean Gallagher and Matt ****ing Murton ??!! Oh, wait, you got Korey's brother too ? Oh, well there you go....:angry:

The Immigrant
07-09-2008, 09:56 AM
Now Gaudin was a steal, and strange to make when you are still in contention. But I'm not too surprised. This is the same GM who disses the postseason as a crapshoot.

Gaudin is a super-2 player who is already arbitration eligible. He got traded because Beane has much cheaper options to fill his starting rotation.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for Oakland, and with all the injuries they've had Beane must have come to the conclusion that they couldn't play .550 ball the rest of the way. I expect Blanton and Street to be traded next. Hopefully Street goes to the Brew Crew.

oeo
07-09-2008, 10:08 AM
From reading a handful of articles this morning, there is speculation that BB made the trade now while Harden at least had some value. His start against the Sox and his start before that, scouts were reporting that his velocity was down significantly and his stuff wasn't all there. This sure is an interesting ordeal.

Hopefully Beane pulled off a Freddy Garcia-type deal.

Although, that will be hard to top.

palehozenychicty
07-09-2008, 10:11 AM
Pale:

It depends on your definition of "winning."

Minnesota's owner is a notorious tightwad despite the fact that Carl Pohland is one of the richest men on the planet according to Forbes Magazine. He's the guy remember who agreed to a settlement from MLB to fold the Twins.

In his opinion (ditto for Oakland's ownership) "winning" may mean making the biggest profit possible.

You do that by having a middle of the road payroll and winning as many games as you can to keep the fans coming to the games. If you win a championship, suddenly the price of playing poker to coin a phrase, goes way way high because now all the players want raises.

Yes there are some owners who care more about the bottom line then "winning" partially because of MLB's luxury tax and revenue sharing, where the most incompetent owners get "rewarded" for their stupidity.

Lip


All of your points make sense, and I've known that. I just think that owning a sports franchise and using it as income is like going to Las Vegas and the casinos with a fifty dollar bill.

Why even show up if you really don't want to compete? I know that owners have their personal reasons for running a team, but I personally find it preposterous.

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 10:14 AM
Hopefully Beane pulled off a Freddy Garcia-type deal.

Although, that will be hard to top.

I hope every player Beane got back is awful.

asindc
07-09-2008, 10:14 AM
All of your points make sense, and I've known that. I just think that owning a sports franchise and using it as income is like going to Las Vegas and the casinos with a fifty dollar bill.

Why even show up if you really don't want to compete? I know that owners have their personal reasons for running a team, but I personally find it preposterous.

When Mike Illich bought the Tigers a few years ago, he was quoted as saying pretty much the same thing you just did. I agree. For these guys who obviously have gotten rich without owning a sports franchise, what's the point if you don't want to win as much as you want to turn a profit? I guess for some of these guys, their business instincts always override their competitive nature.

oeo
07-09-2008, 10:17 AM
I hope every player Beane got back is awful.

I really don't give a ****. a)The A's are not in our division and b)They always walk in place.

Beane likes to sell high. The only problem with that: you never make it anywhere.

ilsox7
07-09-2008, 10:26 AM
I really don't give a ****. a)The A's are not in our division and b)They always walk in place.

Beane likes to sell high. The only problem with that: you never make it anywhere.

They generally beat us like a drum. If it makes an AL team weaker, I am all for it. Beane is overrated though, but that's a well-known fact to most baseball fans.

jonred
07-09-2008, 11:48 AM
Well if it's any consolation, the Cubs gave up all their backup players, and now they're in big trouble in case there are further injuries. Who will they plug in if someone gets hurt now? I'm intrigued as to who they'll send down and better yet bring up to cut a pitcher. Pie has already show he can't cut it. Who's left?

Also, Harden and Wood are fragile, so I have doubts each will make it through the season.

Both Patterson and Murton have produced little this season and I think Hoffpauier (hitting .347 in AAA) is actually more valuable.

The Cubs also have Marshall or Marquis, Gaudin, Hill and Veal available for spot starts.

If Wood goes down, Marmol or Howry can close.

canOcorn
07-09-2008, 12:09 PM
If Wood goes down, Marmol or Howry can close.

Marmol closes about as good as Linebrink. Howry??? :rolling:

russ99
07-09-2008, 12:15 PM
Both Patterson and Murton have produced little this season and I think Hoffpauier (hitting .347 in AAA) is actually more valuable.

The Cubs also have Marshall or Marquis, Gaudin, Hill and Veal available for spot starts.

If Wood goes down, Marmol or Howry can close.

I'm not sold in Hoffpauir. He's done well this season so far, but Murton is a more capable and experienced sub. Also, Hill was shut down, so it's doubtful he'll help the big club this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry deals Marquis for some bench help before the deadline.

My point being, now the Cubs have much weaker and inexperienced backup options than before the deal, but that's the price of getting a good pitcher.

KenBerryGrab
07-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Have fun with your China Doll, North Siders.

Cue the Dead:

"Take up your china doll
it's only fractured -
and just a little nervous
from the fall"

Demafrost
07-09-2008, 07:18 PM
Marmol closes about as good as Linebrink. Howry??? :rolling:

Not to sound like a Cubs defender, but this was brought to my attention on another message board. Marmol has come on to close a game 4 times this year and saved 3 of them. The one he didn't save was that hilarious game where Soriano dropped the routine fly ball that would have been out number 3.

TDog
07-09-2008, 07:22 PM
Not to sound like a Cubs defender, but this was brought to my attention on another message board. Marmol has come on to close a game 4 times this year and saved 3 of them. The one he didn't save was that hilarious game where Soriano dropped the routine fly ball that would have been out number 3.

He has a few blown saves as a setup man, including a recent game in San Francisco where Leon Durham hit a three-run homer off of him to tie the game.

UofCSoxFan
07-10-2008, 12:33 AM
He has a few blown saves as a setup man, including a recent game in San Francisco where Leon Durham hit a three-run homer off of him to tie the game.

You mean Ray Durham?

fquaye149
07-10-2008, 10:04 AM
They generally beat us like a drum. If it makes an AL team weaker, I am all for it. Beane is overrated though, but that's a well-known fact to most baseball fans.

Depends what you mean by overrated :shrug:

PatK
07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Boy, the Cubune propaganda machine is really hyping Rich's start on Saturday, I've just seen two commercials for it on WGN in about a 10 minute span.

I hope he gets hammered.

FielderJones
07-10-2008, 12:55 PM
You know what is amazing about this deal? The Brewers gave up a kings ransom for a rental and the Cubs gave up marginal prospects (Gallagher has the best chance to pan out) for a pitcher who is every bit as good as CC, especially if he stays on the mound. Not only that, Harden is Cubs property in 2009.

I said it before and I will say it again: show me some piece of evidence that Harden has EVER produced the output that Captain Cheeseburger has.

Wow. Just wow.
Harden (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/harderi01.shtml)
Sabathia (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sabatc.01.shtml)

How can you possibly say Harden is even close to being comparable with Sabathia with a straight face? Sorry to bring up silly things like facts.

Juice16
07-10-2008, 01:15 PM
The Suntimes did not help with it's " CC this Brewers, Cubs get Harden" headline. What's funny is that 1 of the 11 Cubs fans I worked with that day even knew who Harden was, but by they end of the day they all were talking like they just traded for Clemens in his prime.

Jaffar
07-10-2008, 02:47 PM
Wow. Just wow.
Harden (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/harderi01.shtml)
Sabathia (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sabatc.01.shtml)

How can you possibly say Harden is even close to being comparable with Sabathia with a straight face? Sorry to bring up silly things like facts.

The majority of my family and friends are Cub fans and all I have heard is how they would rather have Harden then C.C. I think the Cub propaganda has gotten to them early.

palehozenychicty
07-10-2008, 02:59 PM
The majority of my family and friends are Cub fans and all I have heard is how they would rather have Harden then C.C. I think the Cub propaganda has gotten to them early.


And Cub fans wonder why we hate and mock them so...:D:

aryzner
07-10-2008, 04:28 PM
The majority of my family and friends are Cub fans and all I have heard is how they would rather have Harden then C.C. I think the Cub propaganda has gotten to them early.
It's true I have heard the same thing from some Cub fan friends. I was baffled, personally.

FielderJones
07-10-2008, 05:27 PM
The majority of my family and friends are Cub fans and all I have heard is how they would rather have Harden then C.C. I think the Cub propaganda has gotten to them early.

It's because he reminds them so much of the glory days of Prior and Wood.

Boondock Saint
07-10-2008, 07:15 PM
The majority of my family and friends are Cub fans and all I have heard is how they would rather have Harden then C.C. I think the Cub propaganda has gotten to them early.

My brother is the same way about it. According to him, Harden is better than C.C., and he's also who the Cubs were targeting all along. When I told him about the trade, he didn't know who either pitcher was.

Oh, and on top of that, Harden isn't going to get hurt this year and he'll pitch well into September/October.

EuroSox35
07-10-2008, 07:18 PM
Some host on the FM was all like 'let's see this Harden guy this weekend', obviously had no clue who he was, maybe they should've watched the Sox game on Sun, easy W Meanwhile, is anyone else surprised Beane didn't throw Huston Street in the deal?

jonred
07-11-2008, 12:57 PM
My brother is the same way about it. According to him, Harden is better than C.C., and he's also who the Cubs were targeting all along. When I told him about the trade, he didn't know who either pitcher was.

Oh, and on top of that, Harden isn't going to get hurt this year and he'll pitch well into September/October.

As a Cubs fan, I don't care if Harden is better than CC, what's important is that he is a good deal better than Gallegher. Overall, the Cubs trade was better than the Brewers one consider that the Cubs also got Gaudin, didn't have to give up a prospect as good as Leporta and also have Harden locked up through next year.

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 02:17 PM
I think Harden's health WILL be an issue and probably before Labor Day. Beane trading him after two consecutive starts with his velocity down. Harden was on the Score yesterday and was directly asked about throwing only fastballs/change ups...the one thing he NEVER said in response was: "I'm healthy, I'm fine". etc...just a very evasive answer about using all of his pitches depending on the opponent, etc. Does anyone know if the Cubs required him to pass any type of physical before the trade? Such a repeated history of shoulder injuries...if he lasts the rest of the season than this is truly the "magical Cubs season".

Anyone who would rather have Harden than Sabbathia is smoking something. Something very good.

oeo
07-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I think Harden's health WILL be an issue and probably before Labor Day. Beane trading him after two consecutive starts with his velocity down. Harden was on the Score yesterday and was directly asked about throwing only fastballs/change ups...the one thing he NEVER said in response was: "I'm healthy, I'm fine". etc...just a very evasive answer about using all of his pitches depending on the opponent, etc. Does anyone know if the Cubs required him to pass any type of physical before the trade? Such a repeated history of shoulder injuries...if he lasts the rest of the season than this is truly the "magical Cubs season".

Anyone who would rather have Harden than Sabbathia is smoking something. Something very good.

Everything happened so quick, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give him an extensive physical. Maybe that's why they got Gaudin, as well?

It was just like, bam, it was done, and the first thing Hendry did was having a press conference. How often do you see that? :scratch: I thought it was awkward when the first I heard about the trade going through was seeing Hendry on TV talking about it. Usually that comes hours afterwards, if even that day.

It's all about promotion with the Cubbies.

TDog
07-11-2008, 03:04 PM
As a Cubs fan, I don't care if Harden is better than CC, what's important is that he is a good deal better than Gallegher. Overall, the Cubs trade was better than the Brewers one consider that the Cubs also got Gaudin, didn't have to give up a prospect as good as Leporta and also have Harden locked up through next year.

I'm not sure Harden will be better for the Cubs than Gallagher will be for the A's. The Cubs did get Gaudin, though, and he should improve the bullpen.

Harden will probably look good on Saturday. The last time the Harden faced the Giants, on June 14 in San Francisco, he gave up no runs and just one hit in six innings as the A's beat the Giants 4-0. Reports are that his velocity is down, but that might make a difference Saturday against a lineup where the pticher generally is more dangerous than Omar Vizquel. It helps that the Cubs will be facing Correia instead of one of the Giants' A-list pitchers.

I don't know if Sabathia will win many games for the Brewers, but I don't expect Harden to be as successful in Chicago as he was in Oakland.

Madscout
07-11-2008, 06:33 PM
Everything happened so quick, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give him an extensive physical. Maybe that's why they got Gaudin, as well?

It was just like, bam, it was done, and the first thing Hendry did was having a press conference. How often do you see that? :scratch: I thought it was awkward when the first I heard about the trade going through was seeing Hendry on TV talking about it. Usually that comes hours afterwards, if even that day.

It's all about promotion with the Cubbies.

Yeah. Not to get political, but their actions are just about the opposite as Bush's "we don't govern on polls" stuff. The media is all up in arms about "hey, Sabathia to the Brew Crew! What are the Cubs going to do?" and instead of looking at all the options, taking his time, and making a smart trade...he rushes out and gets the first rising star from a GM who doesn't like to pay, and is known for ripping off young talent. Rash move that probably will be looked upon as a mistake later.

TomBradley72
07-11-2008, 08:15 PM
Yeah. Not to get political, but their actions are just about the opposite as Bush's "we don't govern on polls" stuff. The media is all up in arms about "hey, Sabathia to the Brew Crew! What are the Cubs going to do?" and instead of looking at all the options, taking his time, and making a smart trade...he rushes out and gets the first rising star from a GM who doesn't like to pay, and is known for ripping off young talent. Rash move that probably will be looked upon as a mistake later.

I still can't question the move. If Harden holds up...it's a bargain..especially with the the 2nd arm thrown in. No one is ever going to lose sleep about trading Patterson, Murton or Donaldson. Worst case scenario is they traded Gallagher for little return value...calculated risk worth taking.

I don't see this move as Hendry feeling the heat from Milwaukee.

Boondock Saint
07-11-2008, 11:14 PM
I still can't question the move. If Harden holds up...it's a bargain..especially with the the 2nd arm thrown in. No one is ever going to lose sleep about trading Patterson, Murton or Donaldson. Worst case scenario is they traded Gallagher for little return value...calculated risk worth taking.

I don't see this move as Hendry feeling the heat from Milwaukee.

And San Diego is going to get the deal of the millennium if Mark Prior ever gets/stays healthy. Doesn't mean that it will happen. Harden can not stay healthy. He isn't going be pitching for very long.