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View Full Version : Is the Brewers trade for C.C. enough to power them to the N.L. Central Crown?


chisoxmike
07-07-2008, 12:11 PM
This isn't what you want to happen, but what you really think will result in this trade...

KnightSox
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Short answer, no. They still do not have a reliable bullpen.

TommyJohn
07-07-2008, 12:32 PM
It could net them the wild card, which is what they may have their eyes on.
I don't think the Cards will have any staying power. It will come down to the
Brewers and the Cubs.

Sockinchisox
07-07-2008, 12:32 PM
I'm not sure they'll win the Central but I think they have a great shot to win the WC.

ComiskeyBrewer
07-07-2008, 12:35 PM
As it is currently made up, no. If they add a bullpen guy, then yes.

gobears1987
07-07-2008, 12:41 PM
It makes them more competitive, but the answer is still no.

FedEx227
07-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Unless all 5 of their guys can go 9 innings, then no. They still have an awful bullpen.

SoxSpeed22
07-07-2008, 01:19 PM
Unless Sabathia reverts to his 2007 form, it's not gonna happen.
The bullpen still has problems. Also Tony LaRussa and Lou Pinnela can manage circles around Ned Yost, that stuff will matter in September.

russ99
07-07-2008, 02:04 PM
I think it will come down to if the Brewers can add a late-inning reliever (not necessarily a closer) and if the Cubs miss out on a top starter and either stand pat or get a lesser stopgap guy for the rotation, like Maddux or Randy Wolf.

The Cubs have a really tough schedule in September too, so if they do win the division, they will have earned it. This race will be a lot closer than most people think.

TDog
07-07-2008, 02:10 PM
I've never believed Lou Piniella was a very good manager (and he demonstrated it last October), and I've had my doubts over the years about Tony LaRussa, but I don't think managers will decide the National League Central race. I also don't believe the Cubs bullpen will perform post All-Star break as they have for the most part to date. I don't expect Marmol and Wood to be automatic as some people believe, despite the fact that they haven't been lately.

I have no idea if the Cardinals or Brewers will have enough to pass the Cubs in the standings, though. It is possible. This Cubs team so reminds me of 1969, without the proven hitters and pitchers and without the big lead. I just know that I would love to see the Cubs finish third behind the division winner and National League wild card. Cubs fans wouldn't have to hang their heads in shame. It wouldn't be a historic collapse, unless the Cubs build up their lead.

As a former Brewers season-ticket-plan holder (who gave away some tickets to drive down to Chicago and see the Sox), I have a soft place in my heart for the Brewers. I would love to see the Brewers win. I think it would be good for Milwaukee to beat out the Cubs. If the Cubs don't make the postseason this year and the Sox do, the Sox winning will be good for Chicago. I would even love to see a White Sox-Brewers World Series. That probaby wouldn't perplex Cubs fans as much as a White Sox-Cardinals World Series.

To answer the question, I don't know. I care a heck of a lot more about the White Sox than I do with anything going on in the National League.

soxfanreggie
07-07-2008, 02:10 PM
I'm not sure how to answer this without seeing what other moves play out in that division.

It is a good trade once they make it to the playoffs (should they make it there) because they will probably drop down to a 4 man rotation, and in a 7 game series, both Sabathia and Sheets would each pitch twice.

However, just adding one pitcher, will not win you the division when you have the Cards and Cubs likely to make an acquisition or two if they are in it.

I do agree that the Brewers would strengthen themselves even more if they add some bullpen help.

D. TODD
07-07-2008, 02:11 PM
I still think the Cubs have the best chance to win the division, but this puts the Brew Crew right with them, so yes it can be the move that gets them to the finish line in the NL central.

I'm just glad the big fella is out of our division. Johan and CC good ridence.:bandance:

Eddo144
07-07-2008, 02:15 PM
I've never believed Lou Piniella was a very good manager (and he demonstrated it last October), and I've had my doubts over the years about Tony LaRussa, but I don't think managers will decide the National League Central race. I also don't believe the Cubs bullpen will perform post All-Star break as they have for the most part to date. I don't expect Marmol and Wood to be automatic as some people believe, despite the fact that they haven't been lately.

I have no idea if the Cardinals or Brewers will have enough to pass the Cubs in the standings, though. It is possible. This Cubs team so reminds me of 1969, without the proven hitters and pitchers and without the big lead. I just know that I would love to see the Cubs finish third behind the division winner and National League wild card. Cubs fans wouldn't have to hang their heads in shame. It wouldn't be a historic collapse, unless the Cubs build up their lead.

As a former Brewers season-ticket-plan holder (who gave away some tickets to drive down to Chicago and see the Sox), I have a soft place in my heart for the Brewers. I would love to see the Brewers win. I think it would be good for Milwaukee to beat out the Cubs. If the Cubs don't make the postseason this year and the Sox do, the Sox winning will be good for Chicago. I would even love to see a White Sox-Brewers World Series. That probaby wouldn't perplex Cubs fans as much as a White Sox-Cardinals World Series.

To answer the question, I don't know. I care a heck of a lot more about the White Sox than I do with anything going on in the National League.
I agree completely with all of your hopes and dreams, and much of your analysis.

However, I still voted "No" in the poll. Honestly, I think the Cubs have too strong a lineup to fall apart (I would say they do have "proven hitters"; Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano have all put together seasons similar to the ones they're currently having). I'm not saying the Cubs aren't flawed - their pitching is already coming back down to Earth - but I am saying that the Brewers are also flawed (bullpen, lineup not as good as the Cubs'), and currently have ground to make up.

At least this trade makes the race interesting, and it could very well land the Brewers the wild card. And having two legitimate aces (Sabathia and Sheets) could enable them to be quite strong in October should they get there.

palehozenychicty
07-07-2008, 02:20 PM
They need another arm or two in the pen. Nevertheless, I think they have enough to get the Wild Card.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2008, 02:29 PM
In July, the Brewers have four games remaining with the Cubs and four with the Cardinals. C.C. figures to get one start in each of those series. They also play the Cards twice in August and the Cubs six times in September. Figure he'll get two stars against the Cards and three against the Cubs. Chalk those up as wins.

I know it's more complex that this, but in bumping their #5 stater out of the rotation and adding C.C. for three games against the Cubs should allow the Brewers to make up three games against the Cubs. Since they are 3.5 games back now, figure them to pull within half a game just by adding C.C. Moreover, just by having two more home games and one less road game remaining than the Cubs do would seem to indicate that the Brewers should pick up a half game somewhere. Also, although I know little about the Brewers bullpen or which starter he's replacing, bumping their #5 starter out of the rotation and into the bullpen should strengthen their middle/long relief corps.

Now, let's consider the remaining head-to-head games among the three teams: The Cards and Cubs hook up for six more at the Urinal and three more in St. Louis. The Brewers still have six games in St. Louis, but the Cards have not been a dominating at home (but they have been decent on the road). The Brewers also have 10 games remaining against the Cubs, but seven of them are in Milwaukee, including the season-ending three-game set! The Cubs are a bad road team, so the Brewers should be able to gain ground on the Cubs simply by playing four more head-to-head games at home!

But here is where Milwaukee fans should take heart: The Brewers have 35 NL cupcake games remaining while the Cubs and Cards each only have 21 cupcake games remaining:

Brewers: Pirates-9, Padres-7, Reds-12, Nats-4, Giants-3
Cubs: Pirates-6, Reds-9, Nats-3, Giants-3
Cardinals: Pirates-8, Padres-4, Reds-9

It's reasonable to predict the Brewers can win the division based solely on the fact that they play so many more NL dregs than the Cubs or Cards!

Brewers fans, I think this could be your year to win the NL Central!

kevin57
07-07-2008, 02:31 PM
This trade helps...quite a bit...but the division is still the Cubs to lose. They may well do it. There's LOTS of precedent, but my money is still with the Cubs to win the division. No bets yet beyond that prediction.

SoxSpeed22
07-07-2008, 03:03 PM
The Reds will certainly have a huge say in who wins that division. They have 6 home games with the Brewers and with the Cardinals, and 3 home games with the Cubs. They could have a good September with the young talent that they have and they could sneak into the race by then.

BadBobbyJenks
07-07-2008, 03:05 PM
If Sheets stays healthy, yes it is. They now have two number ones and it allows them to put Bush or Mcclung back in the bullpen.

PatK
07-07-2008, 04:16 PM
They're only 3.5 back.

What happens if CC goes on a 1984 Rick Sutcliffe type run?

Nobody thought the Cards were going to contend, but they are in it.

The Brewers still have 10 games with the Pirates. And a bunch with the Cubs.

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 04:21 PM
They've got 2 legit MLB aces in their rotation, and they play in the NL. Yeah, they've got a good shot at taking the division.

Foulke You
07-07-2008, 05:20 PM
If Ben Sheets can stay healthy, they have an excellent shot at the division. The Cubs have rotation issues and possible bullpen issues now that Marmol hasn't pitched like he did last year. That Cubs offense has covered up a lot of the pitching flaws on their team. If they go into an offensive cold spell, I think the Brewers can definitely make up some ground. Barring any major trades, I can't see the Cardinals holding up over the long haul. There just isn't enough talent there to win the division unless the Cubs and Brewers both go into the tank.

JB98
07-07-2008, 05:41 PM
I still think the Crew needs to find some help for their bullpen. Offensively, they can come pretty close to matching the Cubs. And I think they have the best rotation now in the division with the addition of CC and the emergence of Parra. But the Cubs still have the best bullpen in that division, and it's not really close.

Both the Cards and the Crew are weak in relief pitching.

Chicken Dinner
07-07-2008, 05:44 PM
Stretch!

Railsplitter
07-07-2008, 08:35 PM
Yes, the Brewers are starting to move.

Optipessimism
07-07-2008, 08:45 PM
I hope they can get into the playoffs somehow, but they'll have to prove they can beat the Cubs. I like the Cubs' chances better since they're a veteran team with more ways to win IMO. Hopefully the Cubs crash and burn. The 100 year anniversary should be celebrated with as many tears possible.

UofCSoxFan
07-07-2008, 10:03 PM
Short answer, no. They still do not have a reliable bullpen.

My answer to a T.

The one good thing is that CC eats innings so he will make their pen stronger by the fact they won't be out there as much (if that makes sense)....but they still need another arm or two.

After all, Sabathia can only pitch once every 5 games and the pitcher he will replace would win some of the games that CC wins so he alone may only tranlate into 4 or 5 additional wins (which may be huge in a tight race)..is that enough, who knows?