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View Full Version : Would any of you trade Joe Crede


Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 11:49 AM
With him being a free agent at the end of the season(most likely signing elsewhere) and being an all star , his trade value is probably at the highest point..

So would you trade him to get several top prospects that could help the team this year as well as the future. Than we bring up Josh Fields to play 3rd...

eriqjaffe
07-07-2008, 11:50 AM
So would you trade him to get several top prospects that could help the team this year as well as the future. Than we bring up Josh Fields to play 3rd...Isn't Fields still hurt?

munchman33
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
We're in win-now mode. So no.

CashMan
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Isn't Fields still hurt?

We have the GREAT Juan Uribe, that Ozzie, just LOVES to throw in the lineup to play at 3rd.

aryzner
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
[who wants to be a millionaire]

No, I would not trade Joe Crede. Final answer.

[/who wants to be a millionaire]

chisoxmike
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
No. As long as the Sox are in contention, I say keep him.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 11:52 AM
Isn't Fields still hurt?


I believe Fields came back this weekend...

PolishPower83
07-07-2008, 11:52 AM
No. Give the man his money.

Sox Supporter
07-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Not if the Sox are interested in winning (which they are). The message they would send to the team and fans by trading Crede would ruin the morale of all parties. Keep Crede, and let things play out. Who knows, they may sign him after the season. If not, Fields is a competent replacement for Joe.

kittle42
07-07-2008, 11:53 AM
What a great idea while we're in first place and one of the best teams in the AL!

:threadsucks

gf2020
07-07-2008, 11:54 AM
With him being a free agent at the end of the season(most likely signing elsewhere) and being an all star , his trade value is probably at the highest point..

So would you trade him to get several top prospects that could help the team this year as well as the future. Than we bring up Josh Fields to play 3rd...
I don't think we'd get that much if anything. I think most people in the game probably see Crede as someone who should have been an all star in 2006, but has no business being one this season. He has way too many errors and there are still questions about the back out there.

I would trade him if we could get several top prospects, but that's really not a possibility. I'd rather keep him than sell medium in the middle of a pennant race.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-07-2008, 11:55 AM
No. Good way to screw with the chemstry. And to quote PolishPower83 "Give the man his money".

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 11:55 AM
Crede 260 Avg and 17 errors... I think Fields could do alot better than that...

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

No way KW is going to sign Crede this off season with Fields waiting in the wings

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 12:08 PM
Crede 260 Avg and 17 errors... I think Fields could do alot better than that...

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

No way KW is going to sign Crede this off season with Fields waiting in the wings

Last time I checked Fields is not tearing the ball of the cover in AAA, so how can you say that you think he could do a lot better?

Crede is a freaking All Star! Crede does have a lot of errors but he has also made some fantastic plays that have saved the Sox a few games (Saturday's Sox - Cubs game at the Cell). Fields could only dream of making those type of plays.

As kittle42 said, this thread sucks!

ondafarm
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
On the one hand, every player is potentially available and if I was GM and got a call on Joe I wouldn't hang up immediately.

That being said, it'd have to be a pretty sweet deal to pry him away. A really sweet deal.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
NO!!!!!

btrain929
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Does anyone know how it would work draft-pick wise at the end of the year? I swore I heard Farmio saying that the compensation process takes into consideration the last 2 seasons, unless 1 of those is extremely short (like '07). If that is true, the last 2 seasons for Joe would be '08 and '06, in which we'd definitely get compensation if he left.

Does anyone know about this more definitively of how it would work if Joe walked after this season?

hula
07-07-2008, 12:14 PM
I love Crede! Why would you trade an All-Star?!! That would be craziness!
Keep Joe and give him the money he deserves! Look what he's done so far this season. He's fielding is tons better than Fields and he keeps smackin' those homers...... :D:

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 12:15 PM
Longoria should have been the all-star this year not Crede

soxrme
07-07-2008, 12:15 PM
I would not trade him, as many have said before put Fields at first, Konerko could be the designated hitter. I would trade Swisher before anybody.

thomas35forever
07-07-2008, 12:18 PM
No. Forget about the future right now. He's on our roster as long as we're in this pennant race.

Cuck the Fubs
07-07-2008, 12:19 PM
Not a chance in hell!

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 12:24 PM
Longoria should have been the all-star this year not Crede

:dtroll:

Carolina Kenny
07-07-2008, 12:27 PM
We have no Untouchables on this team other than Alexei.

Domeshot17
07-07-2008, 12:29 PM
I am in the middle of the 2 extremes here

I don't trade him now unless someone is offering a package of 2-3 huge prospects.

However, I am not about to cough up 5 years and 75 mil for slick fielding incosnsistent hitting 3b with a bad back. Crede already has a career high in errors. While he still can make the great play, all these errors don't even put him in the conversation for a gold glove.

Crede overall is better than Fields. Fields at his age is probably more advanced offensively then Crede was at the same age. Fields will never be Crede with the glove, but he has a better arm and will be fine as he matures and adjusts his footwork to the speed of the game. That said, Crede at 13-15 per or Fields at 350k, the difference is not that great.

The kicker for me is Crede has proven his loyalty to the Sox. All we heard for years was how he wants to stay with the Sox, how he wants a long term deal, how if Boras didn't like it he would fire him. Then him and Boras decide they don't want to listen to long term deals, Boras informs Kenny Crede wants to test the FA market, Crede says he doesn't handle negotiations that what he pays Boras for. Crede plays the media game very well, but the man is looking to get paid first, and worry about where its coming from 2nd.

voodoochile
07-07-2008, 12:43 PM
To be honest, I don't want to trade any of our major pieces at present.

scarsofthumper
07-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Longoria should have been the all-star this year not Crede
Ain't that the truth!

SoxGirl4Life
07-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Longoria should have been the all-star this year not Crede


Longoria can put in a little time in the big leagues first. If he's that great, it shouldn't be a problem for the next 20 years of his career.

Joe has HAD all-star seasons in the past and got left off the All Star team. Personally, that's why I think his peers voted him in.

jsg-07
07-07-2008, 01:00 PM
I understand he has had 17 errors this year and that is a ton for a guy like Joe, but he has also saved a ton of runs and is coming off of surgery.

I have said this before though and will continue to say it as long as he is here. Joe Crede should not be looked at just because of what he does for him. Crede makes our pitching staff better. I watched guys melt down too many times last year when a bad play was made behind them (and even still this year). Our infield is pretty tight right now and a lot of that is because of Joe. We do not have a staff of strike out pitchers and our guys need D behind them otherwise they struggle.

Rdy2PlayBall
07-07-2008, 01:05 PM
I would not trade him, as many have said before put Fields at first, Konerko could be the designated hitter. I would trade Swisher before anybody.Swisher is doing just as well as anyone on the team. Who cares if he had a bad start, he's helping a lot right now. Trade Uribe!.... wth, you'd trade Swisher before Uribe? :P

#1swisher
07-07-2008, 01:06 PM
[quote=Rockabilly;1953765]

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

THE FUTURE IN NOW

FedEx227
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Crede 260 Avg and 17 errors... I think Fields could do alot better than that...

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

No way KW is going to sign Crede this off season with Fields waiting in the wings


ERRORS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING! :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

I'm not a Joe Crede supporter by any stretch, I feel we probably should've traded him last year, but still... don't grade defense on errors. I'll take Joe Crede's 17 errors and aggressive defense over a Derek Jeter let the ball go past me "ole" bull**** anyday.

Domeshot17
07-07-2008, 01:12 PM
ERRORS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING! :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

I'm not a Joe Crede supporter by any stretch, I feel we probably should've traded him last year, but still... don't grade defense on errors. I'll take Joe Crede's 17 errors and aggressive defense over a Derek Jeter let the ball go past me "ole" bull**** anyday.

Usually I would agree Fed, but a lot of these errors are not aggression based. I think fielding percentage is a BS way to pick a good fielder, but of those 17 errors, maybe 5 have been aggressive ones a normal 3b just lets the ball get by him. 3-4 of the errors are actually anti agressive ones, ones he takes the step back and makes the hop play him instead of charging and picking his own hop, a bunch of been throwing errors, and others where he just stabbed at the ball or misplayed an easy bounce.

On any given 1 play, Joe can be the best defensive 3b in the game, but cumulative, this season, he hasn't been. It doesn't matter if its him or pablo throwing the ball away or booting it at 3rd, it puts the same pressure on the pitchers.

FedEx227
07-07-2008, 01:13 PM
Usually I would agree Fed, but a lot of these errors are not aggression based. I think fielding percentage is a BS way to pick a good fielder, but of those 17 errors, maybe 5 have been aggressive ones a normal 3b just lets the ball get by him. 3-4 of the errors are actually anti agressive ones, ones he takes the step back and makes the hop play him instead of charging and picking his own hop, a bunch of been throwing errors, and others where he just stabbed at the ball or misplayed an easy bounce.

On any given 1 play, Joe can be the best defensive 3b in the game, but cumulative, this season, he hasn't been. It doesn't matter if its him or pablo throwing the ball away or booting it at 3rd, it puts the same pressure on the pitchers.

Oh I agree, throwing errors have killed him this year, but do you know how many of his 17 errors were throwing this year? I'm just curious if anyone has that number. That is, in my mind, the one error number you can count because it's not really up to a scorer, he threw the ball away plain and simple... I'd like to see that number before I consider him having a truly bad defensive season.

TDog
07-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Crede 260 Avg and 17 errors... I think Fields could do alot better than that...

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

No way KW is going to sign Crede this off season with Fields waiting in the wings


Even if Josh Fields were healthy, trading Joe Crede before the deadline would be a losing move, and one that no one wishing to keep the general manager job would make.

Frankly, whether or not the Sox keep Crede, I would love to see them trade Fields because I think his value is higher now as the promise some people believe he shows than it will ever be when he fails to fulfill it.

But like trading Crede, that isn't going to happen.

If Kenny Williams were to trade Crede, I would suggest Williams be given a drug test.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 01:30 PM
[quote=Rockabilly;1953765]

plus we set ourselves up for the near future...

THE FUTURE IN NOW


Just because you trade Crede and get a hot shot rookie or two doesn't mean you have given up on this year.. If the Sox can get a top pitching prospect and top SS prospect in the trade and bring up Fields.. We would be set for many years to come with our young talent. As well as having a great shot to win the pennant this year

Lets say Crede was coming into t his season healthy and the Sox traded him in the off season for Carlos Quentin. About 95% of the people on this site would have been ticked off...

I will say this if the Sox can re-sign Crede im all for it, but just dont see it happening with Boras as his agent...

Brian26
07-07-2008, 01:32 PM
With him being a free agent at the end of the season(most likely signing elsewhere) and being an all star , his trade value is probably at the highest point..

So would you trade him to get several top prospects that could help the team this year as well as the future. Than we bring up Josh Fields to play 3rd...

You're going to trade an important part of your team for prospects during the pennant race when your team is in first place? Doesn't seem like a very smart marketing move.

Domeshot17
07-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Question Kenny Williams JR, Why would we want a top flight SS prospect? We alredy have 2 in Alexei and Gordan Beckham.

Brian26
07-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Crede 260 Avg and 17 errors... I think Fields could do alot better than that...

17 errors is awful, but not many of them have come back to haunt the Sox this year. On the other hand, I could name you a list of big-game moments where Crede saved runners from scoring with brilliant defensive plays. That doesn't excuse his general sloppiness when the pressure isn't on, but I still trust Crede's glove over Fields' down the stretch.

As for the .260 average, I don't think Fields could do much better than that until he learns how to cut down on his strikeouts.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 01:38 PM
You're going to trade an important part of your team for prospects during the pennant race when your team is in first place? Doesn't seem like a very smart marketing move.

the people I would want back would help this team as well as into the Sox future.

Not saying that this trade will happen just usuing it as an example if the prospect coming back to the Sox was Howie Kendrick or Bucholz you better believe I would trade Crede..

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 01:39 PM
Question Kenny Williams JR, Why would we want a top flight SS prospect? We alredy have 2 in Alexei and Gordan Beckham.


I was usuing a SS prospect as an example..

Brian26
07-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Not saying that this trade will happen just usuing it as an example if the prospect coming back to the Sox was Howie Kendrick or Bucholz you better believe I would trade Crede..

You're not going to get Howie Kendrick or Bucholz for three months of Joe Crede.

For that matter, I don't know if you could get Kendrick for five years of Joe Crede.

jabrch
07-07-2008, 01:42 PM
On the one hand, every player is potentially available and if I was GM and got a call on Joe I wouldn't hang up immediately.

That being said, it'd have to be a pretty sweet deal to pry him away. A really sweet deal.

That's my sentiments... In order to get Joe from the Sox, a team would have to litterally knock my sox off if I were the GM.

If the Brewers offerd us LaPorta, Green and Jack for him, I guess I'd have considered it strongly. But the last thing I'd want to do is make one of my opposing contenders stronger in July. I want the Sox to be adding pieces that make us better today. Going from Joe to a hurt Fields and Uribe wouldn't do that - so the piece(s) we get back would have to do that elsewhere - and then some. I'm not sure where we have a weakness that we'd be looking to fill by moving Joe.

I think Joe is destined to depart in the offseason and we will get draft pick compensation for him.

jabrch
07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
You're going to trade an important part of your team for prospects during the pennant race when your team is in first place? Doesn't seem like a very smart marketing move.

Doesn't sound like a great baseball move either. Sounds worse than the legendary White Flag trade.

kittle42
07-07-2008, 02:06 PM
Not saying that this trade will happen just usuing it as an example if the prospect coming back to the Sox was Howie Kendrick or Bucholz you better believe I would trade Crede..

They're not really "prospects" anymore, nor could they be acquired for Joe Crede.

You really have no support for your idea on this one, rock.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 02:08 PM
the people I would want back would help this team as well as into the Sox future.

Not saying that this trade will happen just usuing it as an example if the prospect coming back to the Sox was Howie Kendrick or Bucholz you better believe I would trade Crede..

You could say that about anyone on this team then. Would you trade Alexei for Alex Rodriguez? Come on people!

palehozenychicty
07-07-2008, 02:16 PM
I think he'll hang around through the end of the year, but few people on this roster are untouchable.

Eddo144
07-07-2008, 02:19 PM
Would I trade Crede this season? No. There is no better 3B option available this season, and the Sox are currently in first place.

Would I re-sign Crede? Probably not, unless he's available for considerably less than current market value seems to dictate. It's likely some team will give him $15-18 million per, over 4-5 years. He's been one of my favorite players for the past few years, but he's not worth that. He's still a streaky, bottom-half-of-the-order hitter with a history of injury problems, who now may be showing signs of defensive decline and is on the wrong side of 30. There's a good chance that his contract becomes an albatross after a year (like Torii Hunter's likely will).

palehozenychicty
07-07-2008, 02:26 PM
Would I trade Crede this season? No. There is no better 3B option available this season, and the Sox are currently in first place.

Would I re-sign Crede? Probably not, unless he's available for considerably less than current market value seems to dictate. It's likely some team will give him $15-18 million per, over 4-5 years. He's been one of my favorite players for the past few years, but he's not worth that. He's still a streaky, bottom-half-of-the-order hitter with a history of injury problems, who now may be showing signs of defensive decline and is on the wrong side of 30. There's a good chance that his contract becomes an albatross after a year (like Torii Hunter's likely will).

Exactly. You can't justify that kind of contract for a guy who has never had a consistent prime period in his career. And I like the guy, and he's made big plays in his time. I think if team brass doesn't believe in Fields, we will be a player for Atkins in the offseason.

TDog
07-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Exactly. You can't justify that kind of contract for a guy who has never had a consistent prime period in his career. And I like the guy, and he's made big plays in his time. I think if team brass doesn't believe in Fields, we will be a player for Atkins in the offseason.

You might be right. But Josh Fields at third could be problem for the Sox for years to come. If that era is to begin, I want to wait for 2009.

Irishsox1
07-07-2008, 02:34 PM
I would listen to trading Crede but the deal would have to be very, very sweet (which no one will offer) and Fields would have to be 100% healthy and ready which he isn't. His agent is Boras, so we know he is not going to re-sign with the Sox, so my guess is the Sox are going to stick with Crede for the rest of the year, start Fields next year and take the draft picks for losing Crede.

cws05champ
07-07-2008, 02:48 PM
I would listen to trading Crede but the deal would have to be very, very sweet (which no one will offer) and Fields would have to be 100% healthy and ready which he isn't. His agent is Boras, so we know he is not going to re-sign with the Sox, so my guess is the Sox are going to stick with Crede for the rest of the year, start Fields next year and take the draft picks for losing Crede.
Exactly!!!! I would rather have a shot this year with Crede at 3B, if it doesn't happen, so be it. But you have to go for it when you are in this position. Fields takes his place next year and we get draft pick compensation for Joe and maybe OC. 2009- Five 1st round picks (sup round included), Fields and Ramirez on the left side of the infield and a world series title in hand (1/2 teal).

TDog
07-07-2008, 02:53 PM
I would listen to trading Crede but the deal would have to be very, very sweet (which no one will offer) and Fields would have to be 100% healthy and ready which he isn't. His agent is Boras, so we know he is not going to re-sign with the Sox, so my guess is the Sox are going to stick with Crede for the rest of the year, start Fields next year and take the draft picks for losing Crede.

How sweet could a deal be for someone who is months away from being a Boras free agent?

The reason you wouldn't be listening to offers for Crede to judge their sweetness is that people wouldn't be making them.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 03:19 PM
How sweet could a deal be for someone who is months away from being a Boras free agent?

The reason you wouldn't be listening to offers for Crede to judge their sweetness is that people wouldn't be making them.

The Brewers gave up alot to get C.C this year and he wont be back with Milw next year...

I'm pretty sure the Dodgers would give us a hell of package for Crede. Since they will be in a dog fight to win the NL West and could use Crede very badly

soxfanreggie
07-07-2008, 03:32 PM
Every player is available that doesn't have a no-trade clause. However, wjat I would accept for him vs what I was offered would be the true sticking point.

ondafarm
07-07-2008, 03:35 PM
To be honest, I don't want to trade any of our major pieces at present.

Date marked down.

kittle42
07-07-2008, 03:40 PM
The Brewers gave up alot to get C.C this year and he wont be back with Milw next year...

I'm pretty sure the Dodgers would give us a hell of package for Crede. Since they will be in a dog fight to win the NL West and could use Crede very badly

The major problem with your proposal is your assumption that Fields adequately replaces Crede for this season. We have a good enough team to win now, and that should be our goal. Absent receiving players that KW deems more helpful to the Sox in 2008 than Crede, this talk is pointless.

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 04:12 PM
I just don't think trading away Crede is a good idea, regardless of how much it can help the team. Doing so would piss off many fans, and it would piss off a lot of guys in the clubhouse. That's not the kind of thing you want to do. That's a good way to send a team into a tailspin.

ChiSoxGirl
07-07-2008, 04:37 PM
Not to be cliche, but if it's not broken, why fix it? That's how I feel....

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 04:43 PM
The Brewers gave up alot to get C.C this year and he wont be back with Milw next year...

I'm pretty sure the Dodgers would give us a hell of package for Crede. Since they will be in a dog fight to win the NL West and could use Crede very badly

Unless you are the GM for the Dodgers you have no clue what they are willing to give.

I love how people are SURE about what a trade would net the team.

As fans of a first place team, we should be cheering them on and enjoying some good baseball. Let Kenny do his job.

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 04:47 PM
Unless you are the GM for the Dodgers you have no clue what they are willing to give.

I love how people are SURE about what a trade would net the team.

As fans of a first place team, we should be cheering them on and enjoying some good baseball. Let Kenny do his job.

And to further illustrate his point, two words, one name.

Michael Dubee.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 04:53 PM
Unless you are the GM for the Dodgers you have no clue what they are willing to give.

I love how people are SURE about what a trade would net the team.

As fans of a first place team, we should be cheering them on and enjoying some good baseball. Let Kenny do his job.

So when Crede leaves after this season and we get nothing for him.. Nobody on this site should bitch that he sign with the Angels or some west coast team...

I love how fans over value their own players...

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 05:03 PM
So when Crede leaves after this season and we get nothing for him.. Nobody on this site should bitch that he sign with the Angels or some west coast team...

I love how fans over value their own players...

Hilarious! You are the one that is over valuing. You are SO SURE what the Dodgers would give for Crede. How the hell are you SO SURE? If someone wants Crede really bad and makes a great offer, I am sure Kenny will listen. Its his job.

You are so bent on trying to fix something that is not broke.

If it means winning it all this year with Crde and losing him at the end of it, guess what I would pick?

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 05:04 PM
So when Crede leaves after this season and we get nothing for him.. Nobody on this site should bitch that he sign with the Angels or some west coast team...

I love how fans over value their own players...


How about a half season of Joe Crede? How about a solid chance to make the playoffs this year?

At this point in the season, you're either looking to add pieces for a run this year, or looking to build up your farm system for the future. Why take our starting 3rd baseman and trade him away for someone that's not going to contribute this year?

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Hilarious! You are the one that is over valuing. You are SO SURE what the Dodgers would give for Crede. How the hell are you SO SURE? If someone wants Crede really bad and makes a great offer, I am sure Kenny will listen. Its his job.

You are so bent on trying to fix something that is not broke.

If it means winning it all this year with Crde and losing him at the end of it, guess what I would pick?


I didn't over value anyone, if you dont think LA or any team would give us a young star player for Crede you're kidding yourself...

I'm not so bend on trying to fix something that is not broken but i can give you at least 10 3rd base man i rather have than Crede... Josh Fields will be a better player than Crede is

FedEx227
07-07-2008, 05:09 PM
The Brewers gave up alot to get C.C this year and he wont be back with Milw next year...

I'm pretty sure the Dodgers would give us a hell of package for Crede. Since they will be in a dog fight to win the NL West and could use Crede very badly

And CC is also three times the player Crede is and is a pitcher.

You will not get a good package from Crede. Teams don't have the benefit of watching every single game from a player, so they will look at Crede's career .259/.309/.449 line and go from there.

I can't stand around trade deadline time when Sox fans think because one team traded a guy and got a bunch for him that our guys should be worth comparable packages, we went down this road with Iguchi.

I didn't over value anyone, if you dont think LA or any team would give us a young star player for Crede you're kidding yourself...


:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You didn't over value anyone... but you think LA is going to give us a young star for a career .259 hitter with an impending free agency and a history of back problems. Give me a little of what you're smoking.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 05:10 PM
How about a half season of Joe Crede? How about a solid chance to make the playoffs this year?

At this point in the season, you're either looking to add pieces for a run this year, or looking to build up your farm system for the future. Why take our starting 3rd baseman and trade him away for someone that's not going to contribute this year?

I said for a young star or two who would help us this season as well as many years to come. rather than someone who is here for 3 more months

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 05:15 PM
I didn't over value anyone, if you dont think LA or any team would give us a young star player for Crede you're kidding yourself...

I'm not so bend on trying to fix something that is not broken but i can give you at least 10 3rd base man i rather have than Crede... Josh Fields will be a better player than Crede is


Speculation. Fields may be a better player than Crede someday. But he sure as hell isn't better than him now. That's a fact. And nobody is giving away a future star player for Joes numbers. Joe isn't a star player himself. He's very good, but he's not a must-have player.

Boondock Saint
07-07-2008, 05:17 PM
I said for a young star or two who would help us this season as well as many years to come. rather than someone who is here for 3 more months

Who is going to help us this season that we can get for Joe Crede? Is he going to play 3rd for us this year? Because we don't have anyone that's ready to step in at 3rd and play at an acceptable level. Keeping Crede is our best option.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 05:27 PM
Who is going to help us this season that we can get for Joe Crede? Is he going to play 3rd for us this year? Because we don't have anyone that's ready to step in at 3rd and play at an acceptable level. Keeping Crede is our best option.

you don't think Fields can play 3rd... He did a great job last year filling in

you know what is great about baseball you got your opinion and I have mine

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Josh Fields will be a better player than Crede is

Since you can predict the future, care to tell me tomorrow's winning lottery numbers?

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 05:43 PM
Since you can predict the future, care to tell me tomorrow's winning lottery numbers?

No but i can tell that these 10 3rd baseman are better than Crede

A Rod
D Wright
C Jones
A Ramirez
E Longoria
C Figgins
M Lowell
A Gordon
G Atkins
C Guillen

If i told you the Sox are going to pick someone up who has back problems, batting 260 and with 17 errors. and he was great player for a year and half out of the last 7,would you want him or would you rather have a player who hit 23 home runs in a half season in his rookie year and has a great future ahead of him who would you choose

kittle42
07-07-2008, 05:44 PM
So when Crede leaves after this season and we get nothing for him.. Nobody on this site should bitch that he sign with the Angels or some west coast team...

I love how fans over value their own players...

WE ARE NOT SELLERS NOW.

When was the last time a team in first at the all-star break pulled a move like this off without obtaining help for the current season? PLEASE tell me. If I am wrong, I'll be happy to admit it. It can't be a common move.

Daver
07-07-2008, 05:50 PM
Speculation. Fields may be a better player than Crede someday. But he sure as hell isn't better than him now. That's a fact. And nobody is giving away a future star player for Joes numbers. Joe isn't a star player himself. He's very good, but he's not a must-have player.

I really doubt Josh Fields will ever be a good third baseman, you can't teach instinct, and he doesn't have it.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 05:56 PM
WE ARE NOT SELLERS NOW.

When was the last time a team in first at the all-star break pulled a move like this off without obtaining help for the current season? PLEASE tell me. If I am wrong, I'll be happy to admit it. It can't be a common move.

I know its not the same thing but I remember the Angels suspending Jose Guillen for the rest of the season while he had 27 hr's 104 rbi's and batting close to 300. which is alot better season than Crede is having this year..

Chicken Dinner
07-07-2008, 06:05 PM
Since you can predict the future, care to tell me tomorrow's winning lottery numbers?


3-18-21-32-33-40

kittle42
07-07-2008, 06:09 PM
I know its not the same thing but I remember the Angels suspending Jose Guillen for the rest of the season while he had 27 hr's 104 rbi's and batting close to 300. which is alot better season than Crede is having this year..

It is indeed not at all close to the same thing, so until I stand corrected, I would say that no GM who deserves a job would make the kind of trade you're proposing in the position the Sox are currently in.

SoxGirl4Life
07-07-2008, 06:12 PM
I really doubt Josh Fields will ever be a good third baseman, you can't teach instinct, and he doesn't have it.


I was going to say that. I thought maybe I was watching different White Sox games than everyone else last year.

kittle42
07-07-2008, 06:24 PM
I was going to say that. I thought maybe I was watching different White Sox games than everyone else last year.

He'd make 17 errors look like a godsend.

dickallen15
07-07-2008, 06:30 PM
So when Crede leaves after this season and we get nothing for him.. Nobody on this site should bitch that he sign with the Angels or some west coast team...

I love how fans over value their own players...

Why is it that you "must get something for him"? Instead of a minor leaguer or 2 ie a guy like Jon Adkins, you get half a season of Crede at 3rd. I know you probably have a Josh Fields poster in your room, but right now he's a downgrade. Perhaps having Crede at 3rd the rest of the season instead of a weaker replacement is the difference between winning something and not winning something. People complain Crede is hitting .260. Fields is hitting .251 in AAA. People complain Crede has 17 errors. Fields has 8 in about half the games, and doesn't make nearly as many run saving plays as Crede. Forget the fact that Fields has been off and on the DL for a couple months now. You're not going to get much value for Crede. Its better to just keep him and let him play the season out.

dickallen15
07-07-2008, 06:36 PM
I said for a young star or two who would help us this season as well as many years to come. rather than someone who is here for 3 more months
So wait, some team is going to trade a young star or 2 that can help this season for not quite 3 months of Crede with an agent that won't have him sign a contract until he's a free agent? Pass the bong.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 06:40 PM
So wait, some team is going to trade a young star or 2 that can help this season for not quite 3 months of Crede with an agent that won't have him sign a contract until he's a free agent? Pass the bong.

But he's not overvaluing anyone! It's us with the problem!

SoxGirl4Life
07-07-2008, 06:44 PM
But he's not overvaluing anyone! It's us with the problem!


If Crede is our biggest problem, we're in great shape!

FedEx227
07-07-2008, 06:50 PM
But he's not overvaluing anyone! It's us with the problem!

I don't understand his argument. In one breath it's "here's a list of 3B better than Crede", I agree with most of his list.

Then he says we can get a young star or two. But.... wait. If he isn't an elite 3B in the league (overall Crede isn't), then how can you expect to get a good young players or TWO from him?

Am I the only one completely baffled by his logic?

TDog
07-07-2008, 07:16 PM
The Brewers gave up alot to get C.C this year and he wont be back with Milw next year...

I'm pretty sure the Dodgers would give us a hell of package for Crede. Since they will be in a dog fight to win the NL West and could use Crede very badly

First, the Brewers didn't give up that much for Sabathia. The Indians didn't get anything that will make them a better team this year. In fact, the Indians will be worse this year. It is likely that the players the Indians received will not make the contributions to the Indians in the future that Sabathia has contributed to the Indians in the past.

Second, where did you develop your conviction that the Dodgers are willing to give up for Crede comparable value for what the Brewers gave up for Sabathia? The Brewers went to the World Series more than a quarter of a century ago, representing the American League, but they didn't win. In their market, they might not be able to keep their team together. They need to win this year. The Dodgers are a storied franchise in a different situation. And if they traded for Crede, they wouldn't be getting last season's American League Cy Young Award winner, but a third baseman with some power who should have won the Gold Glove a couple of times.

Third, if you believe that trading Crede for prospects during a season when you are in contention for fear you won't get anything for him, you have a losing mentality. If you are contending, you don't trade for prospects to rebuild. If the prospects pan out, they probably won't start to help the team until they approach eligibility for free agency.

I want the Sox to win this year. I don't look forward to the day when they will have to try to win with Josh Fields playing third base. If Fields surprises me and develops into a solid ballplayer (hypothetically -- I think both his offense and defense will disappoint), he probably won't help the team until he is nearly eligible for free agency.

I would rather see Crede stay with the Sox this year and become a free agency at season's end than see Crede traded. I think it's something of a no-brainer.

Stringer
07-07-2008, 07:52 PM
The likelihood of us retaining Joe beyond this season seems to be pretty slim

and I have concerns about his back

:(:

ondafarm
07-07-2008, 08:28 PM
I really doubt Josh Fields will ever be a good third baseman, you can't teach instinct, and he doesn't have it.

Really mark this down. I agree with both Daver and Voodoochile on the same day.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 08:35 PM
We will see in time who will have a better career Crede or Fields...

When Fields is our full time 3rd baseman next year and has amazing stats, alot of you will be talking how great he is instead of dissing him....


you have to admit I did make today's off day into a fun discussion

getonbckthr
07-07-2008, 08:39 PM
Sure if that means we get Utley, Arod, ATkins, Braun, Longoria, Pujols, ARamis, Wright, Reyes, Hanley or Uggla in return.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 08:42 PM
We will see in time who will have a better career Crede or Fields...

When Fields is our full time 3rd baseman next year and has amazing stats, alot of you will be talking how great he is instead of dissing him....


you have to admit I did make today's off day into a fun discussion

And when he is not, will you man up?

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 08:52 PM
And when he is not, will you man up?

If Fields fails next year I will be the first person to say he needs whatever he is lacking... Im not going to hide..

Im a huge fan of Fields and think he will have a huge future for our Sox

peeonwrigley
07-07-2008, 08:53 PM
To answer the original question in the thread: No.

Daver
07-07-2008, 09:20 PM
If Fields fails next year I will be the first person to say he needs whatever he is lacking... Im not going to hide..

Im a huge fan of Fields and think he will have a huge future for our Sox

Do you eat your crow with or without ketchup?

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Do you eat your crow with or without ketchup?


If I have to eat crow because Fields fail. pass the ketchup

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 09:31 PM
I think you meant to say:

When I have to eat crow because Fields fail. pass the ketchup

Daver
07-07-2008, 09:36 PM
If I have to eat crow because Fields fail. pass the ketchup

Baseball is not an offensive sport, stock up on ketchup.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 09:39 PM
Baseball is not an offensive sport, stock up on ketchup.


So are you telling me Frank Thomas was a bad ball player than

UofCSoxFan
07-07-2008, 09:47 PM
Is it July 31st yet?

Prospects are prospects. When you win one World Series in the past 90 years, you don't trade one of the centerpieces of a World Series contender to another team.

Next year we probably lose Cabrera, we may lose Thome, we may not get the pitching we are currently getting, etc...honestly depending on a bunch of variables, I think next year we could be a 90 win or a 90 loss team. That is why you win now.

FWIW, our 3rd round pick in this year's draft, a third baseman that put up huge number at Cal State Chico, has already been promoted from rookie ball to Class A Kanapolis after hitting .375 in 15 games (he looks like a stud based on the mlb draftday video I saw)...so he is someone to keep an eye on 2 to 4 years from now.

I think we had a very good draft this year, especially if we sign Denks. The fact also that the Sox are a fairly large market team makes up for some of the sparseness of our minor league system (which again, I think is getting a lot stronger).

And yes, it is unlikely we resign Crede, but the same was said about Buerhle. so stranger things have happened. I honestly don't know if his "All Star" status makes him at his highest value ever. Any scout can see that he is hitting under .100 against lefties and has 17 errors. Jason Varitek is also an "All Star" and I doubt you could get a top prospect for him right now.

Daver
07-07-2008, 09:49 PM
So are you telling me Frank Thomas was a bad ball player than

What position does Frank Thomas play now?

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 09:52 PM
What position does Frank Thomas play now?

What position did he play back in the 90's... When he was the king on the south side.

He was a hitter and that was it...

ondafarm
07-07-2008, 09:57 PM
I'm going to modify Daver's statement for my own belief.

Baseball is not just an offensive sport.

Great offensive players are useful, but just one component.

Third base is a position where poor defense can really hurt you, especially in close games.

Daver
07-07-2008, 10:10 PM
What position did he play back in the 90's... When he was the king on the south side.

He was a hitter and that was it...


And he didn't play third base.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 10:16 PM
And he didn't play third base.

No he doesn't but Chipper Jones does and he had 28 errors in his first year and I believe over 30 errors in the year 2000.

Chipper is twice the player Crede is. Who would you rather have Chipper or Crede on the Sox

Daver
07-07-2008, 10:24 PM
No he doesn't but Chipper Jones does and he had 28 errors in his first year and I believe over 30 errors in the year 2000.

Chipper is twice the player Crede is. Who would you rather have Chipper or Crede on the Sox

Crede, his defense won a World Series.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 10:29 PM
Crede, his defense won a World Series.

:gulp:

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 10:30 PM
Crede, his defense won a World Series.

I will give you that Crede was awesome in 05.. It sounds like you want Fields to fail next year

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 10:33 PM
I will give you that Crede was awesome in 05.. It sounds like you want Fields to fail next year

No one here wants Fields to fail. We just know that Crede is much better than Fields. You on the other hand, well you are either Josh Fields or his mom.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 10:35 PM
No one here wants Fields to fail. We just know that Crede is much better than Fields. You on the other hand, well you are either Josh Fields or his mom.

What were you saying in 04 and early 05 when most of Sox fans wanted Crede traded

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Were you saying that in 04 or early 05 when most of Sox fans wanted to traded Crede...

I've NEVER wanted to see Crede traded.
I can also say I hope I NEVER have to see Fields play 3B for the Sox, not because I want him to fail, but because I hope somehow Crede stays.

ArkanSox
07-07-2008, 10:41 PM
Well, I was going to answer that we don't trade Joe, but if you meant for Chipper Jones, I'll have to change my answer.

Twins lost, but they sure look like the real deal to me...Bunting with two strikes for a basehit, strong arms, defense, hustle.

It ought to be an exciting race to October.

slavko
07-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Not to be cliche, but if it's not broken, why fix it? That's how I feel....
:wink:
If it's not broke, fix it till it is.

Daver
07-07-2008, 10:43 PM
I will give you that Crede was awesome in 05.. It sounds like you want Fields to fail next year

I judge players on talent and ability, not on expectation, Josh Fields is not a good defensive player, and never will be.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 10:44 PM
I've NEVER wanted to see Crede traded.
I can also say I hope I NEVER have to see Fields play 3B for the Sox, not because I want him to fail, but because I hope somehow Crede stays.


If the Sox can sign Crede to a long term deal and have Fields DH, I will be a happy person I want the best team out on the field for many years to come. My only problem I dont want to see Crede leave and get nothing in return for him...

ChiSoxGirl
07-07-2008, 10:44 PM
:wink:
If it's not broke, fix it till it is.

And just why should we do that, so people around here would know how to respond, since things would be in disarray? We have to have something to complain about.... :wink:

jabrch
07-07-2008, 10:55 PM
Twins lost, but they sure look like the real deal to me...Bunting with two strikes for a basehit,

You think that's a wise move?

cws05champ
07-07-2008, 10:58 PM
If the Sox can sign Crede to a long term deal and have Fields DH, I will be a happy person I want the best team out on the field for many years to come. My only problem I dont want to see Crede leave and get nothing in return for him...
As stated before...we will get draft picks in compensation for him. I would rather take a shot this year with Crede and get the picks. In trading him now not are you sending a wrong message to the other players, but the fans as well If you trade him you get a couple prospects that won't help us this year, and that may not be better than what we could draft with the compensation picks anyways.
There is no upside to trading him unless you are getting a really really good deal...which I don't think he'll bring back.

Rockabilly
07-08-2008, 12:16 AM
For the people who thought we couldn't get a young rising star for Crede. Who could help us out this year as well as many years to come....



Perrotto wrote that Wilson is the Dodgers' primary trade target. He says "a Dodgers source indicated that Los Angeles might be willing to deal center fielder Matt Kemp

I dont know about you but Crede is way better player than Jack Wilson is....

Matt Kemp and Josh Fields would be better than 3 months of Crede

kittle42
07-08-2008, 12:49 AM
For the people who thought we couldn't get a young rising star for Crede. Who could help us out this year as well as many years to come....



Perrotto wrote that Wilson is the Dodgers' primary trade target. He says "a Dodgers source indicated that Los Angeles might be willing to deal center fielder Matt Kemp

I dont know about you but Crede is way better player than Jack Wilson is....

Matt Kemp and Josh Fields would be better than 3 months of Crede

Read rotoworld. Nowhere does the beaver County Times article say Wilson/Kemp would be a straight up deal, and it is pure speculation.

But keep dreaming...

Rockabilly
07-08-2008, 12:58 AM
Read rotoworld. Nowhere does the beaver County Times article say Wilson/Kemp would be a straight up deal, and it is pure speculation.

But keep dreaming...

im pretty sure the Pirates would have to give up more than just Wilson to get Kemp. Unless Coletti is awfully stupid.

But any trade rumor is pure speculation until it actually happens..

If a Dodgers insider is saying that Kemp might be on the trading block if I was KW I would be on the phone ASAP to get him..

kittle42
07-08-2008, 01:12 AM
im pretty sure the Pirates would have to give up more than just Wilson to get Kemp. Unless Coletti is awfully stupid.

But any trade rumor is pure speculation until it actually happens..

If a Dodgers insider is saying that Kemp might be on the trading block if I was KW I would be on the phone ASAP to get him..

Well, who wouldn't? But what need to the Dodgers have for a 3B with DeWitt up and coming?

Rockabilly
07-08-2008, 01:17 AM
Well, who wouldn't? But what need to the Dodgers have for a 3B with DeWitt up and coming?

Hell if I know what LA is doing.. Why get a SS when they have Hu up and coming.

TDog
07-08-2008, 01:19 AM
...
Matt Kemp and Josh Fields would be better than 3 months of Crede

Even if this fantasy had real-world validity, I would suggest that Matt Kemp and Josh Fields without a postseason appearance in 2008 -- which would be a likely outcome of playing Josh Fields at third on a regular basis -- would be worse that losing Joe Crede after making a postseason run.

The White Sox are built on pitching, and their pitching seems to be having a strong year. Pitchers need defenders behind them.

Personally, I hope I never see Fields play third or even DH for the White Sox. Defensively, he would make a good DH, but offensively, I would expect him to disappoint more than Jim Thome has this season.

If Fields is so special, maybe the Sox could trade him for Matt Kemp. After Crede leaves, the Sox will be in the market for a real thirdbaseman even if Fields remains on the team.

whitesox901
07-08-2008, 02:50 AM
Not during a penant race no, if this was a disaterpiece of a season, and if he didnt have as many errors then yes, trade him off and bring up Joshy, I can't really see Fields in the mix anymore. Last year I was getting in gear to buy a Fields jersey, now if Thome dosnt comeback I cant even see him DH. But didnt Ozzie talk about (im not sure how much in the past this was, I know it was after the season started) that Fields is too talented not to play at all in 2008? Thats what makes me think.....:scratch:

TheVulture
07-08-2008, 02:59 AM
I think Fields could do alot better than that...



Uh, no.

ondafarm
07-08-2008, 08:02 AM
You think that's a wise move?

If it works out, it's brilliant.

ondafarm
07-08-2008, 08:10 AM
I think that eventually Josh Fields will be a better offensive player than Joe Crede. More of a classic third basemen as far as homer production. He may have a higher average and almost certainly more RBIs. That being said, if the Sox depend on Fields defense at third, in place of Crede, the drop off in defense will be very noticeable. I don't like the thougth of losing Joe, but sometimes in baseball that happens. Is Joe worth the deal he will be seeking? Probably not. Will he get it? That remains to be seen. I think the Sox should make a very reasonable offer to Joe and try to keep him, but draw up their limits. If somebody just exceeds their offer, they should countermatch. If not, then turn it over to Josh.

Trade him? If the deal was great, then maybe, but it'd have to be great.

kittle42
07-08-2008, 08:23 AM
Hell if I know what LA is doing.. Why get a SS when they have Hu up and coming.

Easy answer - Hu has been a bust, at least for this season, and the Dodgers are in it in a horrible division, and you don't keep a struggling rookie out there when you are in a pennant race and don't have the other pieces to cover up for him. A .250 hitting vet is better than a sub-.200 rookie when every game counts.

mcfish
07-08-2008, 09:26 AM
Even if this fantasy had real-world validity, I would suggest that Matt Kemp and Josh Fields without a postseason appearance in 2008 -- which would be a likely outcome of playing Josh Fields at third on a regular basis -- would be worse that losing Joe Crede after making a postseason run.
Ridiculous speculation. How can you be so sure that a healthy Josh Fields (you can't do any of this without a healthy Fields) playing 3rd "likely" results in the Sox not winning the division or WC? Crede hasn't exactly lit it up out there defensively (I think throwing errors and misplayed balls account for more of his errors than his aggressive play), and Crede is at best adequate offensively. A healthy Fields can replace that. On top of that, other teams have made the playoffs in the past without someone playing "Joe Crede" defense at third - it is possible. Does Matt Kemp (who the Dodgers would never give up for Joe Crede so this is a moot point anyway) not make any contribution in this scenario?

How can you be so sure that keeping Crede results in the postseason? What about having Matt Kemp and Josh Fields without a postseason appearance vs losing Joe Crede without a postseason appearance?

Rocky Soprano
07-08-2008, 09:36 AM
Ridiculous speculation. How can you be so sure that a healthy Josh Fields (you can't do any of this without a healthy Fields) playing 3rd "likely" results in the Sox not winning the division or WC? Crede hasn't exactly lit it up out there defensively (I think throwing errors and misplayed balls account for more of his errors than his aggressive play), and Crede is at best adequate offensively. A healthy Fields can replace that. On top of that, other teams have made the playoffs in the past without someone playing "Joe Crede" defense at third - it is possible. Does Matt Kemp (who the Dodgers would never give up for Joe Crede so this is a moot point anyway) not make any contribution in this scenario?

How can you be so sure that keeping Crede results in the postseason? What about having Matt Kemp and Josh Fields without a postseason appearance vs losing Joe Crede without a postseason appearance?

Fields cant hold Crede's jock when it comes to defense. That's just a fact. Fields had a good half a season and based on that you are certain he would be a better offensively that Crede? If that is the case why isn't Fields killing the ball in AAA? And last time I checked Crede has been healthier than Fields this year.

Rockabilly
07-08-2008, 09:37 AM
I guess alot of people on this site thinks that if a healthy Josh Fields was our every day 3rd baseman this year ( if Crede got dealt in the off season) that we would have NO SHOT at the playoffs this year and beyond......


Chipper Jones had 36 Hr's 111 Rbis( numbers Fields can reach) in the year 2000 but he had over 30 Errors are you telling me you wouldn't want Jones on the Sox that year

kittle42
07-08-2008, 09:48 AM
I guess alot of people on this site thinks that if a healthy Josh Fields was our every day 3rd baseman this year ( if Crede got dealt in the off season) that we would have NO SHOT at the playoffs this year and beyond......

It's speculative. He won a few games earlier this season when he and TCQ were the only guys hitting anything and won a few more games with his glove by making spectacular plays at opportune times.

I can't say what Fields would or would not have done offensively all season, assuming no injury, but I can say he very likely wouldn't have made some of those game-saving catches. So for this season, on the balance, I'd say we wouldn't be in first right now had Fields been playing 3B all year over Crede. Maybe it's only 2 games difference - I just don't know.

Past this year, I don't expect to have Crede around, so we had better be able to win without him, and I am sure we can.

kittle42
07-08-2008, 09:50 AM
Chipper Jones had 36 Hr's 111 Rbis( numbers Fields can reach)

Pure speculation based on a partial season, and this year's numbers in AAA are not backing it up. Maybe he can, I hope he can, but maybe he can't. This season is simply not the season to find out. Let's get through this (crosses fingers) playoff run, then see if we can't retool in the offseason to the point where we can have Fields at 3B (or wherever) every day and feel more comfortable.

jabrch
07-08-2008, 09:54 AM
If it works out, it's brilliant.

Your hindsight is excellent - but that's not what I was asking. You know the game - is it a smart move?

Iwritecode
07-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Oh I agree, throwing errors have killed him this year, but do you know how many of his 17 errors were throwing this year? I'm just curious if anyone has that number. That is, in my mind, the one error number you can count because it's not really up to a scorer, he threw the ball away plain and simple... I'd like to see that number before I consider him having a truly bad defensive season.

8 throwing errors
9 fielding errors


FWIW, the Sox are 12-4 in games that Crede made an error in. That includes April 6 where he made 2 in one game.

ondafarm
07-08-2008, 10:58 AM
Your hindsight is excellent - but that's not what I was asking. You know the game - is it a smart move?

Yeah, I watched a couple of innings of the game, and I saw the play you are talking about. But a couple of things I don't know.

a) how confident in what the guy (Matsuzaka) will throw
b) how confident in the hitters bunting ability
c) how confident in the groundskeeper and what will happen when you bunt
d) margin of error with the third baseman

A few thoughts.

A manager should never call for a bunt with two strikes, it's got to be the batter's idea.

Is the batter a get on base guy or a power guy?

Game situation?

How likely to advance as a runner?

Honestly, I saw the play and liked it at the time. I thought it was a good aggressive play from an OBP guy taking advantage of a somewhat predictable pitcher and a decent but not great defending 3B. Fenway as a ground is kept immaculate and I'm unaware of anything they do to prevent bunting there.

That it came nothing, well, that happens.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-08-2008, 11:02 AM
The problem with a lot of this current speculation is, it almost always comes down to Fields if Crede is traded. That is probably an unfair comparison, and tilts the argument much to the advantage of Crede, but that may not be the case. This year, maybe, but next year is a different story. If the Sox lose Crede to free agency, they will have options other than Fields, through trade or free agents.

The question is: What is Crede worth? If the Sox think he's worth $60-million over 5 years, they may be able to keep him with that offer. But for $60-million, they may have other ways to spend that money.

That said, I can't see the Sox ever trading Crede this year in the midst of a pennant race. It won't happen. KW's philosophy has always been to win now, and worry about next year next year.

mcfish
07-08-2008, 11:16 AM
Fields cant hold Crede's jock when it comes to defense. That's just a fact. Fields had a good half a season and based on that you are certain he would be a better offensively that Crede? If that is the case why isn't Fields killing the ball in AAA? And last time I checked Crede has been healthier than Fields this year.That's what I don't get - why is it just a fact? How many errors does a guy have to make before he loses the position of "World's Greatest Defensive Third Baseman"? Why can't Fields have potential to improve? Why is he viewed as so bad he would cost the team 10+ games a year defensively in the first place? I bet in reality he would be a middle of the pack defender given another opportunity - I bet he wouldn't be worst in the league by a long shot.

My first post was just meant to counter pure speculation with more pure speculation that was equally unprovable - to show that you can speculate both sides of a position. I would never advocate trading one of our starting nine while in first place in July unless it was a deal that was too good to pass on. But I want to know why Fields has ZERO potential to become a good enough defensive third baseman and why Crede's reputation never gets tarnished even a little bit no matter what he does.

kittle42
07-08-2008, 11:31 AM
I would never advocate trading one of our starting nine while in first place in July unless it was a deal that was too good to pass on. But I want to know why Fields has ZERO potential to become a good enough defensive third baseman and why Crede's reputation never gets tarnished even a little bit no matter what he does.

Yeah - two different arguments going on in this thread. I am hardly in the "Super Joe Crede" camp, and think he's quite replacable, but it can't be done this year (and esepcailly not done this year by Fields) unless the offer bowls over Williams.

palehozenychicty
07-08-2008, 11:53 AM
That's what I don't get - why is it just a fact? How many errors does a guy have to make before he loses the position of "World's Greatest Defensive Third Baseman"? Why can't Fields have potential to improve? Why is he viewed as so bad he would cost the team 10+ games a year defensively in the first place? I bet in reality he would be a middle of the pack defender given another opportunity - I bet he wouldn't be worst in the league by a long shot.

My first post was just meant to counter pure speculation with more pure speculation that was equally unprovable - to show that you can speculate both sides of a position. I would never advocate trading one of our starting nine while in first place in July unless it was a deal that was too good to pass on. But I want to know why Fields has ZERO potential to become a good enough defensive third baseman and why Crede's reputation never gets tarnished even a little bit no matter what he does.


Thank you. Whose to say that Fields will never ever improve? Crede improved with consistent playing time. People here give up on guys so quickly, and that isn't without reason.

I remember when Crede was first called up, he looked as overmatched as Anderson. The bat improved somewhat, and his defense really took off. Fields is the reversal, in my mind. If he becomes respectable with the glove and puts up strong offense, it's all good. Let him have that chance.

kittle42
07-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Thank you. Whose to say that Fields will never ever improve? Crede improved with consistent playing time. People here give up on guys so quickly, and that isn't without reason.

I remember when Crede was first called up, he looked as overmatched as Anderson. The bat improved somewhat, and his defense really took off. Fields is the reversal, in my mind. If he becomes respectable with the glove and puts up strong offense, it's all good. Let him have that chance.

OK, just not this season in the middle of a pennant chase, is all I'm saying.

Daver
07-08-2008, 12:49 PM
Thank you. Whose to say that Fields will never ever improve? Crede improved with consistent playing time. People here give up on guys so quickly, and that isn't without reason.

I remember when Crede was first called up, he looked as overmatched as Anderson. The bat improved somewhat, and his defense really took off. Fields is the reversal, in my mind. If he becomes respectable with the glove and puts up strong offense, it's all good. Let him have that chance.


You can't learn instinct or reaction time.

RCWHITESOX
07-08-2008, 02:32 PM
I know its not the same thing but I remember the Angels suspending Jose Guillen for the rest of the season while he had 27 hr's 104 rbi's and batting close to 300. which is alot better season than Crede is having this year..
And your point is? First of all we are in first place and not looking to get rid of players. Second all the 3B you have mentioned surely would not be headed in our direction. In case you haven't checked the Sox haven't been involved in alot of post season play and when we get a chance to be their why would you want to jepordize that?

EndemicSox
07-08-2008, 02:34 PM
If the right offer came along, sure...for many of the reasons that have been posted on this site over the past two years.

Crede is a solid ballplayer, but he is replaceable. With that being said, it's quite obvious the Sox will probably be better off with the draft picks when Crede goes west, and I'm fine with that plan as well.

WhiteSoxBlog
07-08-2008, 05:12 PM
No. Absolutely not.

So he has 17 errors. BFD. That's the only thing I've been hearing. How about the saves he's made? And I'm not just talking routine plays that come his way. I mean, saves that no one else would have made, but he did. I mean dives, I mean grabs, I mean great throws. Shouldn't those get their own category? And his batting average has been plummeting these past 2 weeks, but it's still higher than his career average. He'll get hot again and bring it up again. Good grief, it's only half way through the season, and we're already throwing him under the bus for this Fields guy. Why isn't Fields in Ozuna's place if he's so spectacular?

Despite his struggle, he's been resposible for many wins.

He's not the problem. How about Konerko's low average? How about Thome's advanced years? (you hit the 500 club, that's basically what you're saying!)

mcfish
07-08-2008, 05:36 PM
Why isn't Fields in Ozuna's place if he's so spectacular?
Bad timing...

To answer the question, assuming Fields is healthy which he hasn't been at times this season, it's because Fields as a young player needs regular playing time to improve his game. Ozuna is an experienced role player who has probably already reached his peak and who is not hindered by time spent on the bench. Fields, on the other hand, would be losing development time sitting on the bench. Also, Ozuna plays more positions and has more speed, which makes him a better bench player than Fields.

cards press box
07-08-2008, 06:00 PM
That said, I can't see the Sox ever trading Crede this year in the midst of a pennant race. It won't happen. KW's philosophy has always been to win now, and worry about next year next year.

KW is right. If the Sox win the pennant and/or World Series this year, next year will, to some degree, take care of itself. The post-season exposure and playoff revenue can do nothing but increase the team's flexibility with regard to making moves for next season.

Chardog
07-08-2008, 08:38 PM
Wow, you can say what you will about Fields and his HOF credentials, but last I checked pitching and defense wins championships. Crede has had gold glove caliber defense since he came up, up until this year. But then again he had 9 months off. Maybe you lose a little out of your rhythm hence the extra errors early in this season. Offensively, Crede's numbers this year are on par to what Fields did in 100 big league games, except for the 125 KO's Field's put up to Crede's 37.

The question has been asked, why can't Fields get better defensively?? The one thing you can't teach is range. Fields definitely has less range than Crede. So no, he can't improve that much.

I sat here and had to watch Joe Crede battle with his offense for three years before he became arguably the MVP of the 2005 playoffs/WS run and followed it up with his 2006 Silver Slugger award. All the while finishing 3rd in Gold Glove voting both years. Now you want me to sit for another 3 years for Fields to be able to charge a bunt to get a runner out?? I would like to see another WS not another home run record...

mcfish
07-09-2008, 12:30 AM
Wow, you can say what you will about Fields and his HOF credentials, but last I checked pitching and defense wins championships. Crede has had gold glove caliber defense since he came up, up until this year. But then again he had 9 months off. Maybe you lose a little out of your rhythm hence the extra errors early in this season. Offensively, Crede's numbers this year are on par to what Fields did in 100 big league games, except for the 125 KO's Field's put up to Crede's 37.

The question has been asked, why can't Fields get better defensively?? The one thing you can't teach is range. Fields definitely has less range than Crede. So no, he can't improve that much.

I sat here and had to watch Joe Crede battle with his offense for three years before he became arguably the MVP of the 2005 playoffs/WS run and followed it up with his 2006 Silver Slugger award. All the while finishing 3rd in Gold Glove voting both years. Now you want me to sit for another 3 years for Fields to be able to charge a bunt to get a runner out?? I would like to see another WS not another home run record...I hope we all get to see that this year. Nothing would be better.

However, there's a very good chance you are going to have to sit for those three years watching Josh Fields, because there is about a 50/50 chance that Crede will decide not to sign any of the contract offers the Sox put in front of him this offseason.

TDog
07-09-2008, 12:46 AM
I hope we all get to see that this year. Nothing would be better.

However, there's a very good chance you are going to have to sit for those three years watching Josh Fields, because there is about a 50/50 chance that Crede will decide not to sign any of the contract offers the Sox put in front of him this offseason.

Possibility C is that the Sox lose Joe Crede and find a real thirdbaseman in the offseason just as last offseason they found a real shortstop.