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View Full Version : If Bobby has to go to the DL...


oeo
07-07-2008, 12:40 PM
...who is your closer?

Do you stay with Linebrink, who doesn't look completely comfortable in that role, and move him out of the set-up role where he was lights out? Or do you go with someone else?

I say a combo of Thornton and Dotel. Pick who you feel matches up well that day. Keep Linebrink in the set-up role. Also, bring up Jon Link, who is having a stellar year in Birmingham.

The good thing about this all is it's right before the All Star Break, so we should be able to get Bobby back by next Friday when the second half begins.

doublem23
07-07-2008, 12:41 PM
Definitely keep Linebrink in the 8th inning.

chisoxmike
07-07-2008, 12:43 PM
I'd say just Thorton. Linebrink has no business pitching in the 9th inning.

eriqjaffe
07-07-2008, 12:49 PM
I'd also agree with Thornton. I'm not 100% comfrotable with Dotel in the 7th as it is, I wouldn't feel at all comfortable having him close games.

Sockinchisox
07-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Dotel, he has the most experience closing.

PolishPower83
07-07-2008, 12:55 PM
I think it's got to be Dotel. The experience is a plus and his stuff is more electric than Linebrink's. And Scott's been scaring me lately when he goes to the mound.

White City
07-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Leave Dotel and Linebrink alone (hopefully the tinkering so far hasn't screwed up Linebrink).

Try out Russell and/or Masset as the closer.

Or Logan or Thornton.

Sockinchisox
07-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Leave Dotel and Linebrink alone (hopefully the tinkering so far hasn't screwed up Linebrink).

Try out Russell and/or Masset as the closer.

Or Logan or Thornton.

I'm scared of that as well, I hope his struggles in the 9th don't carry over to the 8th.

kevingrt
07-07-2008, 02:46 PM
I'd go strictly with a closer by committee. Just go by match ups and feelings. Ozzie does that anyway though.

waldo_the_wolf
07-07-2008, 03:15 PM
I voted for Thornton. Of all the Sox relievers, I feel safest when he's on the mound, he's amazing this year.

Eddo144
07-07-2008, 03:28 PM
I'd go strictly with a closer by committee. Just go by match ups and feelings. Ozzie does that anyway though.
I agree, which is why I voted "Dotel/Thornton". The "closer" position is fairly arbitrary anyway; it should be the pitcher best suited to shut down the other team to end a close game. The problem is that too many managers have simply named one guy their closer in order to get said player saves (and don't get me started on how arbitrary a "save" is), which is how you get situations like Joe Borowski being repeatedly sent out there in high-leverage situations.

The pitcher best suited to get three outs should be sent out in the ninth inning. When Jenks is healthy, he's pretty much that guy, regardless of who's due up for the opponent. If he's not healthy, decide game by game.

Rockabilly
07-07-2008, 03:31 PM
I will use Russell..

I think we will be a great set up man for many years to come

cws05champ
07-07-2008, 03:51 PM
I think there should be a poll option of: Keep Bobby away from the Churros while on the DL

It should be matchups, not any one person.

BadBobbyJenks
07-07-2008, 04:02 PM
I am going with the Dotel/Thornton option. I don't necessarily think you need one guy if Bobby goes down. But as many have said I would prefer Liney in the 8th inning role because he looks far more comfortable there.

JB98
07-07-2008, 04:57 PM
Linebrink, for now.

He's been our best reliever this year. The shaky performances this past week have given me pause, however. One more shaky one, and I'll change my vote to Dotel/Thornton, depending on matchups.

I just hope Jenks gets back soon. We are obviously a much stronger ballclub with him anchoring our bullpen.

IlliniSox4Life
07-07-2008, 08:12 PM
Linebrink, for now.

He's been our best reliever this year. The shaky performances this past week have given me pause, however. One more shaky one, and I'll change my vote to Dotel/Thornton, depending on matchups.

I just hope Jenks gets back soon. We are obviously a much stronger ballclub with him anchoring our bullpen.

I agree. Linebrink hasn't been so bad to take him out of the closer role before Jenks returns yet. I think that might screw him up mentally more than a couple of rough outings. Feeling that your manager has lost confidence in you. However, if he keeps it up and Jenks stays out, I would go with Thornton. Maybe throw Dotel in there occasionally, but I think Thornton should get the bulk of the work.

Lukin13
07-07-2008, 08:49 PM
Dotel!

He is more than servicable and it keeps Linebrink, Thornton, and Logan all in the exact same roles/comfort zone they have been so successful with thusfar.

Stringer
07-07-2008, 08:54 PM
Thornton and then Dotel

getonbckthr
07-07-2008, 09:05 PM
Russell. I think the kid has the stones to fill the void.

Dan Mega
07-07-2008, 09:16 PM
Closer by committee.

WhiteSoxJunkie
07-07-2008, 09:28 PM
Linebrink doesn't look comfortable in save situations. Dotel has experience as a closer and has closer's stuff. Thornton would also be a good choice though.

Brian26
07-07-2008, 09:31 PM
I've thought for the past two years that the Sox were working on borrowed time with Jenks. People tend to forget his history of arm trouble and the fact he still has a screw in his arm. Hopefully he comes back w/out any problems, but the drop in velocity is alarming.

getonbckthr
07-07-2008, 09:41 PM
I've thought for the past two years that the Sox were working on borrowed time with Jenks. People tend to forget his history of arm trouble and the fact he still has a screw in his arm. Hopefully he comes back w/out any problems, but the drop in velocity is alarming.
Well thats part of the reason I want to see Russell. Who knows maybe this kid takes off like Jenks in 05. All of a sudden we have a young, dominant closer in Jenks available in the offseason.

oeo
07-07-2008, 10:00 PM
I've thought for the past two years that the Sox were working on borrowed time with Jenks. People tend to forget his history of arm trouble and the fact he still has a screw in his arm. Hopefully he comes back w/out any problems, but the drop in velocity is alarming.

Except that he's not having arm troubles...

Also, the fastball is at 95, which is where it has been for the past year and a half. It's not like it's continuing to drop and is now at 85 or something. He can be more than effective with a 93-96mph heater, and showed it last year.

oeo
07-07-2008, 10:02 PM
Well thats part of the reason I want to see Russell. Who knows maybe this kid takes off like Jenks in 05. All of a sudden we have a young, dominant closer in Jenks available in the offseason.

Yeah, throwing young kids into big roles really worked well last year. Why would you do that? The only guy that has really been in a role at the back end of the bullpen has been Linebrink. Dotel, Thornton, and Logan have not had a role all year. Use them as you must, just keep Linebrink where he's succeeding.

And Russell doesn't throw enough strikes. He won't be up here much longer because one of these days he's going to get shelled. He won't be back until he can start throwing strikes (and that hanging slider over the meat of the plate doesn't count). You can't keep getting behind in the count to every guy and expect to succeed...just ask Mike MacDougal.

Frater Perdurabo
07-08-2008, 08:00 AM
Thorton's historically been better against RH batters than LH batters, but this year he's shutting down both: .427 LH OPS and .560 RH OPS.

I think Thornton can be trusted to close in Bobby's absence.

soxfandy
07-08-2008, 11:58 PM
well based on how linebrink has been closing it cant be him...i just hopw we havent messed him up for the 8th inning duties. It can be anybodyy besides him at this point. Tonights game is a prime example. Everybody in our pen shuts the royals down. We take a 7-5 lead and linebrink comes in and gives it right back up. And I didnt see any of his inning because WCIU sucks and I was watchin a green screen the whole time! Anybody else have this problem?

WhiteSox5187
07-09-2008, 12:09 AM
Well...I think it's clear after tonight that Linebrink is simply not a closer.

Optipessimism
07-09-2008, 12:09 AM
I agree on Russell as well. Leave the roles as they are because they are working. Both Linebrink and Dotel suck in closing situations, and the last thing the Sox want is for Bobby to come back as the closer while Linebrink and Dotel are in the middle of slumps from failed closing experiments. At least with Russell if he fails they can send him down to Triple A without affecting anyone else in the pen.

oeo
07-09-2008, 12:26 AM
I agree on Russell as well. Leave the roles as they are because they are working. Both Linebrink and Dotel suck in closing situations, and the last thing the Sox want is for Bobby to come back as the closer while Linebrink and Dotel are in the middle of slumps from failed closing experiments. At least with Russell if he fails they can send him down to Triple A without affecting anyone else in the pen.

Dotel has closed before...and it hasn't been for the White Sox. So how do you know how he will perform in that role?

I know we put Bobby into that role in 2005 as a rookie, and he succeeded...big whoop. There are other guys there besides Russell.

hi im skot
07-09-2008, 12:34 AM
I'd like to see Russell get a shot in the next save situation.

Linebrink in a save situation = toast.

JB98
07-09-2008, 12:45 AM
Linebrink, for now.

He's been our best reliever this year. The shaky performances this past week have given me pause, however. One more shaky one, and I'll change my vote to Dotel/Thornton, depending on matchups.

I just hope Jenks gets back soon. We are obviously a much stronger ballclub with him anchoring our bullpen.

I'm changing my vote now. Ozzie needs to make a change, if in fact Jenks is unable to pitch on this trip.

Dotel/Thornton, depending on matchups. If all else is equal, Thornton.

hawkjt
07-09-2008, 01:04 AM
Dotel is my choice...he only needs to do it a few times to get thru the week and he has done it before.

Save McCuddy's
07-09-2008, 09:45 AM
If, God forbid, Jenks is gone for longer than these next 5 games -- who closes? Do we look to trade for anyone?

oeo
07-09-2008, 09:53 AM
If, God forbid, Jenks is gone for longer than these next 5 games -- who closes? Do we look to trade for anyone?

Well, it's my opinion that you can never have enough relievers. So I think, regardless of how long Jenks is out, Kenny should be looking to improve the bullpen in any way he can. There's always room for improvement, especially in the crapshoot that is known as a bullpen.

That said, I think we should be fine with one (or both) of Thornton and Dotel in the closer's role.

Save McCuddy's
07-09-2008, 10:14 AM
Well, it's my opinion that you can never have enough relievers. So I think, regardless of how long Jenks is out, Kenny should be looking to improve the bullpen in any way he can. There's always room for improvement, especially in the crapshoot that is known as a bullpen.

That said, I think we should be fine with one (or both) of Thornton and Dotel in the closer's role.

Agreed. The depth of the pen has been as important to us thus far as has been the talent of the individual hurlers. It's been nice when Dotel and Linebrink have been worked too hard over the course of a series that Logan and Thornton are interchangeable replacements in the 7th/8th inning roles to give those guys a break. Take Thornton to the closer role, and you now remove Logan from the 7th or 8th innning set up man as he will have to be used as a left-handed specialist. Ozzie will have to play it by ear every night. Dotel closes when he needs to be two deep with lefty's to get to the ninth and Thornton can close when he doesn't. Of course, this new arrangement puts Logan and Masset into more demanding roles -- which may not be a horrible thing. So now, you need a live arm from somewhere to provide the role that Masset has occupied and a reasonable mop up man to soak up innings as the staff will likely go through some fatigue in August.

Optipessimism
07-09-2008, 12:30 PM
Dotel has closed before...and it hasn't been for the White Sox. So how do you know how he will perform in that role?

I know we put Bobby into that role in 2005 as a rookie, and he succeeded...big whoop. There are other guys there besides Russell.
In his career Octavio is 54-for-73 in save opportunities which makes for a 74% conversion rate. Compare that to Bobby's 105-for-120 which is an 88% success rate. Dotel just hasn't done very well in that situation throughout his career, and he already is 0-for-2 in save chances for us this year. I'd rather see him stay in his role with everyone else staying in their roles just because I don't think moving guys around is a great idea.

If Ozzie isn't going to use another option like Russell or Masset who aren't getting much work anyway, I'd prefer it to be Thornton only because Logan should be able to handle an expanded set-up role if Thornton becomes the temporary closer.

I think the easiest solution is for Russell to take the closer job for the moment with Masset becoming the first guy out of the pen and Wassermann coming up as insurance for early starter exits, heavy bullpen workloads, and extra inning situations. Then, if Russell does well you can give him more work. If he doesn't work out, then you can send him down when Jenks comes back or try out Masset without having to mess with the well-oiled machine that is our bullpen from the 6th-8th innings. If you put these guys into roles they are not capable of you open up the possibility of a slump that extends into the most valuable section of the bullpen. If the 6-8 inning guys lose confidence then the whole pen is screwed, healthy Jenks or not.

Edit: Actually those Dotel save numbers are since 2004. For some reason the Hardball Times site doesn't go back further than that and I can't find save opportunities listed on any other site.

TheZebra
07-09-2008, 01:12 PM
Has anyone heard anything yet about who will come up to fill BJ's roster spot?