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View Full Version : *Official* No fireworks; A's club 17 hits, beat corpseballing Sox 7-1 on July 4


Frater Perdurabo
07-04-2008, 09:00 PM
What a flaccid Independence Day performance. :(:

soltrain21
07-04-2008, 09:03 PM
That wasn't enjoyable.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2008, 09:08 PM
What really hurts is that these are home games where the Sox are supposedly unbeatable.

One runs and six hits off a pitcher with eleven losses and an ERA of close to five?

Wow.

Lip

Blueprint1
07-04-2008, 09:13 PM
What really hurts is that these are home games where the Sox are supposedly unbeatable.

One runs and six hits off a pitcher with eleven losses and an ERA of close to five?

Wow.

Lip

Yep, the hitting was bad once again. One run is not going to win you many games. 3 runs in two games is really bad.

TomParrish79
07-04-2008, 09:24 PM
ehhh it happens we'll bounce back

TDog
07-04-2008, 09:26 PM
That wasn't enjoyable.

No, it wasn't. But the Sox hit the ball well tonight into tough luck, and the pitching didn't come through.

The A's have a very good offense this year and very good pitching. They may beat out the Angels for the AL West this year. This is a fear on my part, because here in A's country I really hate the A's. They are supposed to be rebuilding, but they have turned from a team that focused on on-base percentage, walking, going station to station on the bases and hitting home runs into a team that swings the bat and hits line drives all over the place, stealing and taking extra bases. The A's and Angels have comparable pitching. The A's have a better offense.

I have posted here several times that the A's have a better offense than last year. People have accused me of making things up. They look at the stats and show that the A's are scoring fewer runs, which isn't a fair comparison because they are winning more games and doing a better job of scoring runs when they need to.

Danks, Sunday's starter, shut the A's down in April. Even though he will be facing Harden, it might be the best chance the Sox have this series. The A's haven't seen Floyd this year, but Smith pitched well against the Sox in April.

October26
07-04-2008, 09:36 PM
People who have been drinking too much alcohol today are calling into the Sox post game show now. Jeez. I think I'm going to turn off the radio now and go enjoy some fireworks on my back porch ...

Lip Man 1
07-04-2008, 09:43 PM
T-Dog:

Are you saying the A's have morphed from "Moneyball" to "Ozzieball?"

Perish the thought...

Although I wish the Sox could still play Ozzieball. It might have helped the past two games.

Lip

TDog
07-04-2008, 09:49 PM
T-Dog:

Are you saying the A's have morphed from "Moneyball" to "Ozzieball?"

Perish the thought...

Although I wish the Sox could still play Ozzieball. It might have helped the past two games.

Lip

No. Ozzieball involves hitting home runs. It always has. Offhand, I'm guessing the Sox have close to double the home runs the A's have. this team hits line drives, and many of them aren't caught. Frankly, I don't see how Billy Beane put this team together because it doesn't seem to reflect his objectives as a GM. I'm guessing he just got lucky.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2008, 09:58 PM
Well I know they have "supposedly" their best players on the DL. I shudder to think what might happen if they were healthy.

Lip

TDog
07-04-2008, 10:11 PM
Well I know they have "supposedly" their best players on the DL. I shudder to think what might happen if they were healthy.

Lip

Their most experienced players are on the DL, and against the Sox, Thomas, Chavez and Sweeney have done some damage. With those three in the lineup, especially with Cust and Chavez in the lineup, and it's a plodding team playing to get two walks and a three-run homer. I think the injuries have been a blessing in disguise for Billy Beane.

JB98
07-04-2008, 10:15 PM
It seems like the best way to stop White Sox momentum is a series against the Oakland A's. We just don't play particularly well against these guys, for whatever reason. They have outplayed us through the first two games of this series.

Hopefully, the Sox hitters can get something generated tomorrow, and we can get back in the win column.

jabrch
07-04-2008, 10:17 PM
What really hurts is that these are home games where the Sox are supposedly unbeatable.
Lip

Lip - there is no team that is unbeatable - anywhere - PERIOD.

I know you like to play a role - but that's over the top even for you.


Well I know they have "supposedly" their best players on the DL. I shudder to think what might happen if they were healthy.

Lip

That too.

Viva Medias B's
07-04-2008, 10:20 PM
I just got back from that. Ugh. The only reason so few people left after the A's poured it on was because they wanted to see the fireworks show. What a total suckfest! We lose. Minnesota wins. And the Cubs beat the Cardinals to pour salt on the open wound.

kitekrazy
07-04-2008, 10:27 PM
What really hurts is that these are home games where the Sox are supposedly unbeatable.

One runs and six hits off a pitcher with eleven losses and an ERA of close to five?

Wow.

Lip

I always hear "they'll come around". It's July. Post season may be real disappointing because they will always face good pitching.

This team's lucky to be where they are at since the traditional 3rd, 4th hitters in this lineup are batting in the low 200s.

Corlose 15
07-04-2008, 10:34 PM
For the most part it seems that the Sox don't hit good pitching (Thought Blanton hasn't been that good this year) and that concerns me.

The fact they haven't played very well against Oakland, LAA, and TB -all teams that they could meet in the playoffs- combined with the fact that they've played like garbage on the road is a bigger concern.

hi im skot
07-04-2008, 10:38 PM
What really hurts is that these are home games where the Sox are supposedly unbeatable.

One runs and six hits off a pitcher with eleven losses and an ERA of close to five?

Wow.

Lip

Lip, you always know how to brighten up the postgame threads.

I'll see you pessimism and raise you the following:

This sucks.

gene

FarWestChicago
07-04-2008, 10:40 PM
And the Cubs beat the Cardinals to pour salt on the open wound.You are banned for a week for Flubsession. All of you Flubsessed have been warned about hijacking Sox game threads. What the **** is wrong with you? Keep your obsessive-compulsive, embarrassing **** where it belongs.

hi im skot
07-04-2008, 10:44 PM
For the most part it seems that the Sox don't hit good pitching (Thought Blanton hasn't been that good this year) and that concerns me.

The fact they haven't played very well against Oakland, LAA, and TB -all teams that they could meet in the playoffs- combined with the fact that they've played like garbage on the road is a bigger concern.

The Sox have seen some of the entire league's best pitching over the past couple weeks---Lee, Sabathia, Dempster, Duchscherer, etc, and have done pretty well.

There are plenty of legitimate concerns, but there's still time to right the ship.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2008, 10:52 PM
I'll just have to give Blanton credit. It's simple as that. I expected him to blow up in the 5th or 6th innings, because that's what he's been doing a lot lately (I've been following him closely, as he is on my fantasy team); but, it never happened. That hitting was absolutely pathetic. And, Buehrle looked like the Buehrle who started off the season. That many hits to a team with that lineup is inexcusable. It should've been a much closer game.

We're still in first place, though.

voodoochile
07-04-2008, 11:02 PM
Anytime your team allows 22 baserunners in a nine inning game you are going to have problems. Lucky the A's only scored 7. Chalk this one up to "one of the 60 you aren't going to win" and move on.

whitesoxfan
07-04-2008, 11:47 PM
Just win the next two in this series. Please.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2008, 11:52 PM
Jab:

Are you saying the A's wouldn't be better with Chavez, Thomas and Sweeney in the lineup?

They are playing pretty damn well without them, it stands to reason they'd play even better with them in the lineup.

They put out a "Triple A lineup" tonight (Dave Van Dyke's words) and still looked pretty good.

Lip

jabrch
07-05-2008, 12:05 AM
Jab:

Are you saying the A's wouldn't be better with Chavez, Thomas and Sweeney in the lineup?

They are playing pretty damn well without them, it stands to reason they'd play even better with them in the lineup.

They put out a "Triple A lineup" tonight (Dave Van Dyke's words) and still looked pretty good.

Lip

No - I assume the team would be better with those guys. But you and I both know that the best team doesn't win a baseball game. It is the team that plays best. No team wins every game. We just won 7 in a row. The same as we could have won a game or two against Oakland in the past two days, you can easily argue we could have lost one to the Cubs or to CC or Cliff Lee.

I'm just saying you can't take ONE or TWO games in isolation and draw the conclusion that your post was clearly drawing - that we somehow didn't win a game in the last two days is a bigger issue than just 2/162 of a season or that this team would be unbeatable with Sweeney/Frank/Chavez.

We have a long way to go - but I can't imagine you'd swap teams with OAKLAND today if you had the choice - would you?

whitesox901
07-05-2008, 12:06 AM
A's are a good team, we never seem to beat them alot. lets go for a split

gowhitesox
07-05-2008, 12:10 AM
The A's are a team that cannot be taken lightly.

Lukin13
07-05-2008, 12:20 AM
MB's night hinges on how wide the plate is.

If he is getting his version of the outside corner we are in for a good night.

If not.... he gets hit.

That is all it comes down to the past two since mid '06 with him.

gobears1987
07-05-2008, 12:29 AM
I don't care what our offense did. Anytime you give up 17 hits you are going to lose.

Listening to the postgame show was hard. Rongey was :rolleyes: with this one caller named Jan. I pity Rongey.

Stringer
07-05-2008, 05:25 AM
Anytime your team allows 22 baserunners in a nine inning game you are going to have problems. Lucky the A's only scored 7. Chalk this one up to "one of the 60 you aren't going to win" and move on.

bingo

Railsplitter
07-05-2008, 06:26 AM
It's almost as if the Sox forgot what works and what doesn't They've gone back to trying to pound every ball into oblivion with men on base.

FarWestChicago
07-05-2008, 06:35 AM
I'm just saying you can't take ONE or TWO games in isolation and draw the conclusion that your post was clearly drawing - that we somehow didn't win a game in the last two days is a bigger issue than just 2/162 of a season or that this team would be unbeatable with Sweeney/Frank/Chavez.Lip can do that. Heck, he'll even invent statistics to show one game April decides the entire season. :D:

ms620
07-05-2008, 08:31 AM
Every team loses games. I have actually had enough of all this corpseball talk. They need to hit home runs, I understand that. But let me ask you a question: would you rather have the White Sox offense, or the twins? I know I would rather have the Sox. June sure was a pretty awesome offensive month. THis has been a rough couple games, against Dusch (leading the AL in ERA) and Blanton (a good pitcher who has had a rough start). Every time the Sox lose a couple the same people come out and act as if the season is over, already sayin that they cant win in the playoffs b/c there will be good pitching. Give me a break. I will let you in on a little secret. The Sox will lose some more games. They lost 2 in a row to the Yankees in April, and people said the season was over. But they bounced back. They lost 2 to the Twins and then 4 to Toronto, and once again the season was "over" but they bounced back. Happened again in Anaheim, in Tampa, in Detroit, at Wrigley, and now vs the A's. The White Sox will not win every series. They won 10 in a row at home...that streak was going to end eventually. Give me a break with all this season over stuff.

SoxGirl4Life
07-05-2008, 08:35 AM
Every team loses games. I have actually had enough of all this corpseball talk. They need to hit home runs, I understand that. But let me ask you a question: would you rather have the White Sox offense, or the twins? I know I would rather have the Sox. June sure was a pretty awesome offensive month. THis has been a rough couple games, against Dusch (leading the AL in ERA) and Blanton (a good pitcher who has had a rough start). Every time the Sox lose a couple the same people come out and act as if the season is over, already sayin that they cant win in the playoffs b/c there will be good pitching. Give me a break. I will let you in on a little secret. The Sox will lose some more games. They lost 2 in a row to the Yankees in April, and people said the season was over. But they bounced back. They lost 2 to the Twins and then 4 to Toronto, and once again the season was "over" but they bounced back. Happened again in Anaheim, in Tampa, in Detroit, at Wrigley, and now vs the A's. The White Sox will not win every series. They won 10 in a row at home...that streak was going to end eventually. Give me a break with all this season over stuff.


:welcome:

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 08:38 AM
It's almost as if the Sox forgot what works and what doesn't They've gone back to trying to pound every ball into oblivion with men on base.

I'll assume you did not watch the last two games and based this comment purely on the low run totals. If you actually DID watch the games, then, yikes! They've been a hitting plenty of balls hard. Not enough, but they are not going up to the plate with home run or nothing swings the last two days. That is pretty obvious.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2008, 08:40 AM
Edited for brevity: I have actually had enough of all this corpseball talk... would you rather have the White Sox offense, or the twins?... Every time the Sox lose a couple the same people come out and act as if the season is over, already sayin that they cant win in the playoffs b/c there will be good pitching. Give me a break... Give me a break with all this season over stuff.

Who said the season was over? When you give up seven runs, you generally will lose.

I prefer an offense that scores 4-5 runs consistently per game over the one that has either been shut out or scored just 1 run 18 times already this year.

TomBradley72
07-05-2008, 08:44 AM
Buehrle was all over the place early....if he's almost hitting guys, throwing near wild pitches, etc...that usually means we're in for a long night. Masset seems to be regressing.

They're a good team. If we can pull out a split, I'll be happy. We needed Friday night's game...a few bad pitches by Javy and we lose 3-2.

ms620
07-05-2008, 08:48 AM
Who said the season was over? When you give up seven runs, you generally will lose.

I prefer an offense that scores 4-5 runs consistently per game over the one that has either been shut out or scored just 1 run 18 times already this year.

Clearly, the Sox offense struggled through April and May. They turned it on during June. So is the Sox offense the one from April and May? Or June? Probably somewhere between. Keep a few things in mind. Thome, Konerko, and Swisher all have struggled so far this year. But Thome and Swisher have been a bit better lately. We will see about Konerko when he comes back. During the huge struggles of April and May, Ocab, a very good career hitter, was hitting well below his career averages. That was likely to change, and it did. Alexei has been playing well since he was put into the starting lineup. So in my opinion, the offense is closer to the June Sox O than the offense from April and May. At this point, who cares how many times they HAVE scored 1 or been shut out. I care about what they WILL do.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2008, 09:30 AM
I care about what they WILL do.

Yes, I agree with this.

As long as Cabrera and Ramirez are in the lineup and producing, their speed and versatility creates scoring opportunities and RBI chances for the sluggers. I'd like to see them bat 1-2, though, with AJ hitting third.

SoxGirl4Life
07-05-2008, 09:36 AM
They might have a good night tonight if Gavin can keep the AL West's version of the Twins in check. I know they sucked against Greg Smith earlier in the year, but the A's didn't have much luck with Burls in the same game (I think we lost 2-0), and they figured Mark out for this time.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway

Oh, and we get the Royals/Rangers and Rangers/Royals to frame the All-Star break. Last in the AL pitching (Rangers) and second to last (Royals) in the AL pitching should be good for us.

russ99
07-05-2008, 11:09 AM
MB's night hinges on how wide the plate is.

If he is getting his version of the outside corner we are in for a good night.

If not.... he gets hit.

That is all it comes down to the past two since mid '06 with him.

I had tickets behind the plate tonight (lucked into them, not so lucky with the Sox playing badly) and he was way off on his outside pitches. I know the umpires' strike zones have been wildly inconsistent thus year, but no ump would have called these a strike.

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 11:13 AM
I had tickets behind the plate tonight (lucked into them, not so lucky with the Sox playing badly) and he was way off on his outside pitches. I know the umpires' strike zones have been wildly inconsistent thus year, but no ump would have called these a strike.

Hawk would have and he is the only ump that counts. :cool:

Tragg
07-05-2008, 12:12 PM
The player hitting leadoff now has an OBP of .319 and is 13 for his last 60, with 3 doubles. That's okay hitting for a SS, but with that level of production at leadoff, it has to be well compensated elsewhere. We saw it prior to 2005 and we see it now: weak leadoff hitting leads to inconsistent offensive production for the team.

TDog
07-05-2008, 01:24 PM
Jab:

Are you saying the A's wouldn't be better with Chavez, Thomas and Sweeney in the lineup?

They are playing pretty damn well without them, it stands to reason they'd play even better with them in the lineup.

They put out a "Triple A lineup" tonight (Dave Van Dyke's words) and still looked pretty good.

Lip

I honestly believe the A's offense is better without the Chavez they have had this year, without Frank Thomas at the end of his career and without post-Royals Sweeney. Against the Sox, Thomas and Sweeney usually do very well, but they look old and slow against everyone else.

These are AAA players the Sox fans wish they had. These aren't Owens and Fields (although Wise was a AAA player not long ago, and he led off for the Sox.

Jurr
07-05-2008, 01:56 PM
The Sox lost two in a row, and they'll more likely than not lose again in this series. People will be down, and then they'll rattle off 5 wins in a row. As long as the good streaks are longer than the bad, we'll see this team in October. Yee haww!!

southsideirish71
07-05-2008, 02:22 PM
Every team loses games. I have actually had enough of all this corpseball talk. They need to hit home runs, I understand that. But let me ask you a question: would you rather have the White Sox offense, or the twins? I know I would rather have the Sox. June sure was a pretty awesome offensive month. THis has been a rough couple games, against Dusch (leading the AL in ERA) and Blanton (a good pitcher who has had a rough start). Every time the Sox lose a couple the same people come out and act as if the season is over, already sayin that they cant win in the playoffs b/c there will be good pitching. Give me a break. I will let you in on a little secret. The Sox will lose some more games. They lost 2 in a row to the Yankees in April, and people said the season was over. But they bounced back. They lost 2 to the Twins and then 4 to Toronto, and once again the season was "over" but they bounced back. Happened again in Anaheim, in Tampa, in Detroit, at Wrigley, and now vs the A's. The White Sox will not win every series. They won 10 in a row at home...that streak was going to end eventually. Give me a break with all this season over stuff.

Before you poo poo on the twins lets take a look at their offense for a second.

They have scored more runs than our team.
They have a higher batting average.
The hit over 300 with men in scoring position.
They lead the AL in driving in runs with men in scoring position and 2 out.

But our team hits a crap load of home runs.

How about our team shows a bit more consistency on offense, and a little less 2004 offense before we start to bring teams that are scoring more runs into the comparison. This isnt a bad twins offense.

I wish we could just be a bit more consistant than we have been. We have the potential to be a great offense. We just need a bit more consistency than bombing a team out for a week, then looking for a few hits and scratching out a run here and there after that.

MCHSoxFan
07-05-2008, 02:33 PM
Every team loses games. I have actually had enough of all this corpseball talk. They need to hit home runs, I understand that. But let me ask you a question: would you rather have the White Sox offense, or the twins? I know I would rather have the Sox. June sure was a pretty awesome offensive month. THis has been a rough couple games, against Dusch (leading the AL in ERA) and Blanton (a good pitcher who has had a rough start). Every time the Sox lose a couple the same people come out and act as if the season is over, already sayin that they cant win in the playoffs b/c there will be good pitching. Give me a break. I will let you in on a little secret. The Sox will lose some more games. They lost 2 in a row to the Yankees in April, and people said the season was over. But they bounced back. They lost 2 to the Twins and then 4 to Toronto, and once again the season was "over" but they bounced back. Happened again in Anaheim, in Tampa, in Detroit, at Wrigley, and now vs the A's. The White Sox will not win every series. They won 10 in a row at home...that streak was going to end eventually. Give me a break with all this season over stuff.

YEEESSS!!! The single BEST post in this entire thread! I was pissed @ the game. I told my father the only reason why people are still here is because of the FIREWORKS show. :(:

jabrch
07-05-2008, 02:43 PM
Who said the season was over? When you give up seven runs, you generally will lose.

I prefer an offense that scores 4-5 runs consistently per game over the one that has either been shut out or scored just 1 run 18 times already this year.

Frater - how much more consistent are other contending teams - statistically... I'm not sure we are as "bad" in that department as you believe.

Tragg
07-05-2008, 02:45 PM
I honestly believe the A's offense is better without the Chavez they have had this year, without Frank Thomas at the end of his career and without post-Royals Sweeney. Against the Sox, Thomas and Sweeney usually do very well, but they look old and slow against everyone else.

These are AAA players the Sox fans wish they had. These aren't Owens and Fields (although Wise was a AAA player not long ago, and he led off for the Sox.
Wise isn't a AAA prospect though.
I think you're hard on Fields. He could be a really good hitter.
We have Quentin and Ramirez playing. If Sweeney's a player, that's the Sox' fault for considering his value to be that of a throw-in. Then there's Anderson. That's 3-5 young players right there.

And some on this board think we have too many slow, older players too.
So, a lot of similarities.

Lip Man 1
07-05-2008, 03:15 PM
Irish:

Well thought out post. I didn't realize the Twins as a team are putting up those kind of numbers.....and they have speed as well.

Lip

ms620
07-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Before you poo poo on the twins lets take a look at their offense for a second.

They have scored more runs than our team.
They have a higher batting average.
The hit over 300 with men in scoring position.
They lead the AL in driving in runs with men in scoring position and 2 out.

But our team hits a crap load of home runs.

How about our team shows a bit more consistency on offense, and a little less 2004 offense before we start to bring teams that are scoring more runs into the comparison. This isnt a bad twins offense.

I wish we could just be a bit more consistant than we have been. We have the potential to be a great offense. We just need a bit more consistency than bombing a team out for a week, then looking for a few hits and scratching out a run here and there after that.

Fair points. But how have they done in the playoffs? In 2005, when many people here maintain that the Sox still relied heavily on the home run, they were able to get it down. The Twins have not been able to. The Twins, with all those great numbers, have scored 11 more runs than the sox. And like I will say one more time, all of this is after the Sox had 2 months of terrible offense. I would say June was pretty consistant. Lets see how July plays out before we start acting as if April/May was more accurate to their abilities.

TDog
07-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Wise isn't a AAA prospect though. ....

Of course not. He's more of a journeyman, which rather illustrates the difference between the Sox farm system and the A's farm system.

I don't believe the current A's team is a product of Billy Beane's design, however. I believe the team has had to make due without fully appreciating the talent they have in their farm system.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2008, 04:49 PM
Frater - how much more consistent are other contending teams - statistically... I'm not sure we are as "bad" in that department as you believe.

I don't know about other teams, but I like the results the Twins offense has been able to get:


They have scored more runs than our team.
They have a higher batting average.
The hit over 300 with men in scoring position.
They lead the AL in driving in runs with men in scoring position and 2 out.