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Rockabilly
07-01-2008, 05:02 PM
I was listening to XM radio this afternoon and I thought I heard the Orioles beat writer say that Uribe will be with them by the end of the week...

Now i see that the Orioles put Cintron on the DL so is this true im in CA this week. So is there any reports out of Chicago that Uribe will be going to Balt and for who

JermaineDye05
07-01-2008, 05:07 PM
I was listening to XM radio this afternoon and I thought I heard the Orioles beat writer say that Uribe will be with them by the end of the week...

Now i see that the Orioles put Cintron on the DL so is this true im in CA this week. So is there any reports out of Chicago that Uribe will be going to Balt and for who

I read somewhere in the trib that there was a Baltimore scout in the audience last night, probably looking at Uribe. I wouldn't expect much in return for Uribe really.

Link (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/minor-concerns.html)

WhiteSox5187
07-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Roberts and Markakis.

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:08 PM
Not that I heard. I wouldn't be surprised though. I wouldn't expect anything more than an "A" ball player. Similar to the Iguchi deal at the very most.

bigsoxfan420
07-01-2008, 05:08 PM
one can only hope, but it was probably just a sarcastic statement about how crappy the Orioles are, I mean who would want that guy?

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:11 PM
one can only hope, but it was probably just a sarcastic statement about how crappy the Orioles are, I mean who would want that guy?
They are on life support In guess in the EAST and Wildcard races. They lost their SS and can get a very good gloveman who shown flashes of offensive just at way below consistent pace for basically nothing in return. All it will cost them truly is cash and I believe they have a bunch of it.

kittle42
07-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Agreed with the other posters. It's very clear the best the Sox get for Uribe is cash, a low-A player, or future considerations.

Rockabilly
07-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Why would their be an Orioles scout there at the game, when Uribe didn't even play..

Could it be possible that a bigger trade might take place.

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:17 PM
Why would their be an Orioles scout there at the game, when Uribe didn't even play..

Could it be possible that a bigger trade might take place.
Who would they target though, Anderson? I can't imagine Kenny dealing Floyd.

JermaineDye05
07-01-2008, 05:20 PM
Why would their be an Orioles scout there at the game, when Uribe didn't even play..

Could it be possible that a bigger trade might take place.

It's always possible they could be looking for an Indians player. I doubt any of the Sox starters last night would be traded. Baltimore has no need for any outfielders, 3rd base is set for them and Kenny isn't going to trade any of our middle infielders and definitely no one in our rotation. Considering the Indians are in last place it's always possible they were looking at one of their starters last night. Since they need a SS, Peralta sure did put a show on for them however I don't see the Indians trading Peralta unless they already have a trade set up with Sabathia for another team and we could see a big 3 way trade with Peralta going to Baltimore and Sabathia possibly going to the Brewers with JJ Hardy going to the tribe along with some other prospects.

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:26 PM
Could Cleveland be looking at last stand for the season and trying to acquire Roberts? Possibly the scout was scouting Sowers and Peralta and/or Carroll. Who knows what Cleveland and Baltmiore are doing since they are both in similar spots of not completely out but definately considering a transfusion or pulling the plug on 08.

oeo
07-01-2008, 05:34 PM
I read somewhere in the trib that there was a Baltimore scout in the audience last night, probably looking at Uribe. I wouldn't expect much in return for Uribe really.

Link (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/minor-concerns.html)

Uribe can ride one hell of a bench.

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:36 PM
Uribe can ride one hell of a bench.
And we all know what happens when you get to close to his car...:D:

TomBradley72
07-01-2008, 05:50 PM
Does anyone else think we may want to hang on to Uribe based on Crede's back and Fields being on the DL? If Crede goes on the DL...I'd rather have Uribe as a fill in vs. Ozuna for 2+ weeks.

Pequod
07-01-2008, 06:00 PM
FWIW, Cowley says Uribe trade talks are heating up, but doesn't specifically mention Baltimore.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/1032863,CST-SPT-soxnt01.article

LITTLE NELL
07-01-2008, 06:09 PM
Does anyone else think we may want to hang on to Uribe based on Crede's back and Fields being on the DL? If Crede goes on the DL...I'd rather have Uribe as a fill in vs. Ozuna for 2+ weeks.
Im with you, keep Uribe for insurance.

Woofer
07-01-2008, 06:12 PM
Does anyone else think we may want to hang on to Uribe based on Crede's back and Fields being on the DL? If Crede goes on the DL...I'd rather have Uribe as a fill in vs. Ozuna for 2+ weeks.
I agree. If the Sox are not getting anybody (from Baltimore) to make sure this is a World Series caliber team, why give him away? Say what you want about Uribe, he is great insurance if someone gets hurt.

asindc
07-01-2008, 06:23 PM
one can only hope, but it was probably just a sarcastic statement about how crappy the Orioles are, I mean who would want that guy?

The O's have had a revolving door at SS ever since Tejada left, and they badly want to finish above .500 this year. It's a good fit for them. They might give a low AA player for him.

Zisk77
07-01-2008, 06:26 PM
I think the move to trade Uribe is so we can keep Wise when Paulie comes off the Dl.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-01-2008, 06:28 PM
It's hard to believe a non-contending team like the O's would want to pay Uribe $2-million in salary to play for them till the end of the year and then lose him to free agency. For that price, the Sox would probably have to eat some salary, and get a player in return to make it somewhat palatable.

gf2020
07-01-2008, 06:30 PM
The amazing thing is, if this goes through, that Uribe will probably play for the Orioles in the same game that he kept us alive in by hitting a game tying home run in the 11th when the April 28th game continues August 25th. We'll probably use Ozuna at second with Ramirez already out of the game. I have to believe with the scarcity of suspended games where play resumes months after the original game day that Uribe might actually be the first player in history to play for both teams in one game.

Probable Lineups when play resumes in the top of the 12th:

Millar 1B
Huff DH
Scott LF
Jones CF
Uribe SS (in for Fahey presumably, he's in Norfolk)
Hernandez C
Roberts 2B
Mora 3B
Markakis RF
Pitching: Sherrill
Ineligible: Quiroz, Payton, Hernandez, Sarfate, Johnson, Walker and Bradford.

Quentin LF
Crede 3B
Anderson CF
Ozuna 2B (in for Uribe)
Swisher RF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzysnki C
Pitching: Linebrink
Ineligible: Ramirez, Vazquez, Jenks

After the top of the 12th, I would pinch hit Dye for Anderson and move Swish to Centerfield.

TomBradley72
07-01-2008, 06:33 PM
I think the move to trade Uribe is so we can keep Wise when Paulie comes off the Dl.

I'd rather send down Russell and keep Uribe as insurance...mostly for Crede's back.

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2008, 06:59 PM
I think Ramirez provides excellent protection at SS in the event of Cabrera getting hurt. But I would like to be assured that Richar is healthy and ready to go to back up 2B.

The trickier problem is third base. Fields is the obvious "long-term" backup should Crede get hurt, but Fields himself is on the shelf right now.

Given that the Sox are in first place and should be "buyers" rather than "sellers,' there's no compelling reason to dump Uribe for a prospect unless that prospect is ready to contribute immediately.

SOXfnNlansing
07-01-2008, 07:33 PM
I wonder when we'll hear from Oscar to make things more clear for us ponderers:rolleyes:

jabrch
07-01-2008, 07:53 PM
Not that I heard. I wouldn't be surprised though. I wouldn't expect anything more than an "A" ball player. Similar to the Iguchi deal at the very most.

If that's all we can get, I'd rather keep Juan - if something happens to OC, at least we know he can play the position. If we move him, then we have to slide Ramirez to SS and play Pablo or bring up someone from the farm.

oeo
07-01-2008, 07:55 PM
FWIW, Cowley says Uribe trade talks are heating up, but doesn't specifically mention Baltimore.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/1032863,CST-SPT-soxnt01.article

Ah, Cowley, our Uribe insider.

ilsox7
07-01-2008, 08:12 PM
If that's all we can get, I'd rather keep Juan - if something happens to OC, at least we know he can play the position. If we move him, then we have to slide Ramirez to SS and play Pablo or bring up someone from the farm.

The way Ozzie was talking yesterday, Juan is all but gone. It will be interesting.

oeo
07-01-2008, 08:34 PM
If that's all we can get, I'd rather keep Juan - if something happens to OC, at least we know he can play the position. If we move him, then we have to slide Ramirez to SS and play Pablo or bring up someone from the farm.

If OC were to go down, I think Ramirez would be the one moving to SS anyway.

We got Jon Link (an A player) last year for Mackowiak, and he's having a stellar season for Birmingham. I'll take whatever.

jabrch
07-01-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm probably just a sentimental fool. Maybe just a fool. That said, I wouldn't give up Juan unless I was getting back something that I felt would improve my team this season. Either BA or Russell can go down until we have some other injury or requirement for one of them to return.

DickAllen72
07-01-2008, 10:58 PM
I'm probably just a sentimental fool. Maybe just a fool. That said, I wouldn't give up Juan unless I was getting back something that I felt would improve my team this season.
Agree 100%.

TDog
07-01-2008, 11:52 PM
I don't want to see Uribe go. I believe he is a good bench player. He seems to be a good pinch-hitter and can play we;; at second, third and short if that's what's needed. This season I prefer Uribe to Ozuna off the bench both in the field and at the plate. Ozuna has more speed, though.

I will miss Juan Uribe, as it seems inevitable he will leave. He was a man in the right place at the right time in White Sox history.

hawkjt
07-02-2008, 12:10 AM
As maddening Juan was to have on the Sox at times..he will always have spot in my heart...he was a key guy in 05.

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2008, 06:44 AM
With Wise on the bench and his ability to play CF (something Ozuna cannot do), and given that Uribe can play three positions defensively at a high level, wouldn't it make more sense that Ozuna is the "odd man out?"

Wise brings the ability to bunt, steal bases, pinch hit and play the OF at least respectably.

I have nothing against Ozuna, but Wise and Uribe make him superfluous.

Bucky F. Dent
07-02-2008, 07:31 AM
My preference would be to keep Uribe as insurance in the event of an injury in the infield.

CLR01
07-02-2008, 08:30 AM
Bag of balls, stick of gum, used condom...whatever you can get Kenny, get it. We've been told this before so I won't get my hopes up.

balke
07-02-2008, 08:32 AM
I don't want him to go anywhere. He's a better defensive IF sub than Pablo, and with Crede's back... you just don't know right now what might happen in the second half of baseball. IF its really about the pride of Uribe not being able to start, maybe he should take pride in being part of a second championship run with the White Sox, starting or not.

goon
07-02-2008, 08:40 AM
Bag of balls, stick of gum, used condom...whatever you can get Kenny, get it. We've been told this before so I won't get my hopes up.

Ummm, I'll take the stick of gum, please.

palehozenychicty
07-02-2008, 08:50 AM
Bag of balls, stick of gum, used condom...whatever you can get Kenny, get it. We've been told this before so I won't get my hopes up.


Me neither. Sure, he's more versatile than Ozuna. But that ain't saying much. He can't start anymore.

The Immigrant
07-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Saving $2 million of Uribe's salary may not sound like much, but if it allows the Sox to give 2nd round money to Jordan Danks (or to make sure that Beckham signs) I'm all for it.

TomBradley72
07-02-2008, 09:25 AM
As maddening Juan was to have on the Sox at times..he will always have spot in my heart...he was a key guy in 05.

We don't win it without Juan and the unique game he brought to the Sox in 2005. The cannon of an arm nailing guys from deep in the whole...was the difference in more than a few games in a very close race.

Tragg
07-02-2008, 09:39 AM
Given that the Sox are in first place and should be "buyers" rather than "sellers,' there's no compelling reason to dump Uribe for a prospect unless that prospect is ready to contribute immediately.
If they give us a good prospect (probably not, but IF), trade him...a good trade is a good trade. Trade from strength - that's a good move. We actually have middle infielders in AAA. The risk is 3B, I agree. Can Richar play 3rd in a pinch?
I would also say he ought to have SOME value - $4 mill player should have some value. It may require eating part of that $4 mill - let's do it.

As for Roberts- he doesn't make much sense now. We're full at his position and Alexei is a refreshing young player. Roberts' nubmers aren't worth the asking price and never have been.

skottyj242
07-02-2008, 09:41 AM
I would like to keep Uribe, I think he's a good player but if we have to trade him I think we should make that dood from Ace of Cakes make us a cake for the tailgate in return.

TomBradley72
07-02-2008, 09:49 AM
I don't think Uribe is the best player coming off the bench....but in terms of lengthy injuries to Crede/Cabrera/Ramirez....he's great insurance. We're going to be in a dogfight pennant race until the end...I'd rather have a veteran like Juan available vs. AAA call ups with very little major league pennant race experience....too risky. And an un-necessary risk to take just to get a meaningless, low minor league prospect.

I've seen Melton, Allen, Zisk, Baines, Fisk, Guillen, Raines, Thomas, Ordonez all go down with major injuries during pennant races without solid replacements....pennant contention = over.

Tragg
07-02-2008, 09:54 AM
I've seen Melton, Allen, Zisk, Baines, Fisk, Guillen, Raines, Thomas, Ordonez all go down with major injuries during pennant races without solid replacements....pennant contention = over.
You're right abut the need for depth and I'm okay keeping him. But we're talking Uribe here - if players of the caliber of most on your list go down, we're in trouble from which Juan Uribe cannot extricate us.

TomBradley72
07-02-2008, 10:39 AM
You're right abut the need for depth and I'm okay keeping him. But we're talking Uribe here - if players of the caliber of most on your list go down, we're in trouble from which Juan Uribe cannot extricate us.

No...but he helps minimize the damage. I don't want to see Ozuna, Richar or Getz getting major playing time due to injury. They're decent players...but I don't want them out there every day in a pennant race.

Madscout
07-02-2008, 10:45 AM
It's hard to believe a non-contending team like the O's would want to pay Uribe $2-million in salary to play for them till the end of the year and then lose him to free agency. For that price, the Sox would probably have to eat some salary, and get a player in return to make it somewhat palatable.
How could they not be able to sign him if they still wanted him?:scratch:

SoxfaninLA
07-02-2008, 11:07 AM
I don't think Uribe is the best player coming off the bench....but in terms of lengthy injuries to Crede/Cabrera/Ramirez....he's great insurance. We're going to be in a dogfight pennant race until the end...I'd rather have a veteran like Juan available vs. AAA call ups with very little major league pennant race experience....too risky. And an un-necessary risk to take just to get a meaningless, low minor league prospect.


Agreed. I don't see the value in moving Uribe at this point. I know everyone hates him and he looks horrible at the plate 80% of the time, but he has a lot of value to us as a utility infielder. He is the most versatile infielder we have on the team, and with the pitching being so important you better have a guy on your bench that can play some solid IF defense. At this point I see Ozuna as the guy that is kind of useless to this team. He is not a good defensive player and seems to have lost a step or two after the injury.

doublem23
07-02-2008, 11:34 AM
I'm probably just a sentimental fool. Maybe just a fool. That said, I wouldn't give up Juan unless I was getting back something that I felt would improve my team this season. Either BA or Russell can go down until we have some other injury or requirement for one of them to return.

The roster spot he's wasting isn't enough?

I liked Juan a lot and wish he could have learned how to hit, but there's no room for him here.

kittle42
07-02-2008, 11:40 AM
The roster spot he's wasting isn't enough?

I liked Juan a lot and wish he could have learned how to hit, but there's no room for him here.

The question is whom does it make the most sense to kick out of this group:

Uribe
Ozuna
Wise
Anderson

It's likely Uribe.

The Immigrant
07-02-2008, 11:43 AM
It's likely Uribe.

Ozuna is the least useful of that group, but he would basically have to be waived. I doubt the Sox eat his salary.

thedudeabides
07-02-2008, 12:14 PM
The whole thread is pure speculation on very little info, so as usual I'll believe it when I see it.

But, if I see it I'll be happy. He will not be starting, doesn't run the bases well, can't bunt, and is a disaster at the plate with a little pop. If we can get something for him, go for it. If we have a strength in the minors it's at second base, and Fields can always come up if Crede goes down(I know he's hurt, but I didn't think it was anything long term). If one of the major guys goes down long term, Juan isn't a much better fix than any of the other options. In fact, I think he's worse. Some of his replacements may actually produce.

It think this thread is funny how most want to keep Juan, considering the outrage around here when he was re-signed and the Sox aquired Cabrera.

Carolina Kenny
07-02-2008, 12:25 PM
I think Ramirez provides excellent protection at SS in the event of Cabrera getting hurt. But I would like to be assured that Richar is healthy and ready to go to back up 2B.

The trickier problem is third base. Fields is the obvious "long-term" backup should Crede get hurt, but Fields himself is on the shelf right now.

Given that the Sox are in first place and should be "buyers" rather than "sellers,' there's no compelling reason to dump Uribe for a prospect unless that prospect is ready to contribute immediately.

Fields is not the obvious long term solution to anything other than a place next to Kevin Bell in Sox Hall of Fame, Failures Wing.

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2008, 12:33 PM
Fields is not the obvious long term solution to anything other than a place next to Kevin Bell in Sox Hall of Fame, Failures Wing.

Personally I agree, but I think the Sox see him as the "long term" solution.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-02-2008, 12:43 PM
How could they not be able to sign him if they still wanted him?:scratch:

That's not the point. Even if they could sign him at the end of the year, the point is: Why would they want to increase their payroll $2million if they're not in the pennant race? That would be a terrible business decision. If they do like him, they would wait till he's a free agent.

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2008, 12:51 PM
Let's look at these players' attributes:

Uribe: great defensively at 2B, SS and 3B
Ozuna: pinch hit, pinch run, steal bases
Wise: can play CF, pinch hit, pinch run, steal bases
Anderson: excellent CF defense, good baserunner, some XBH power

There's nothing that Ozuna can do that no one else can do as well or better. In addition, he's the only one of those four players who is a defensive liability at any position. Therefore, Ozuna is the most logical choice to go to make room for Konerko when he returns.

Slightly off topic: Could Paulie and the Sox both benefit from him just taking off though the All-Star break and/or doing a rehab stint in Charlotte? The Knights play at home from this Friday, July 4 through Sunday, July 13. We're talking about him missing just 11 more games. The biggest advantage to waiting a little longer is to make sure Paulie is fully healed and does not suffer a relapse. The side benefit would be to see if one of the bench players either distinguishes himself by playing well and increasing his trade value, or distinguishes himself as needing to be removed from the roster. If Paulie's ready earlier, though, I'd bring him back when the Sox are in Arlington. He's always hit pretty well there, whereas he hasn't been so great at Kauffman.

Back on topic: I would really hate it if Cabrera or Ramirez were to suffer a freak injury AFTER the Sox had traded away Uribe.

JohnTucker0814
07-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Let's look at these players' attributes:

Uribe: great defensively at 2B, SS and 3B
Ozuna: pinch hit, pinch run, steal bases
Wise: can play CF, pinch hit, pinch run, steal bases
Anderson: excellent CF defense, good baserunner, some XBH power

There's nothing that Ozuna can do that no one else can do as well or better. In addition, he's the only one of those four players who is a defensive liability at any position. Therefore, Ozuna is the most logical choice to go to make room for Konerko when he returns.

Slightly off topic: Could Paulie and the Sox both benefit from him just taking off though the All-Star break and/or doing a rehab stint in Charlotte? The Knights play at home from this Friday, July 4 through Sunday, July 13. We're talking about him missing just 11 more games. The biggest advantage to waiting a little longer is to make sure Paulie is fully healed and does not suffer a relapse. The side benefit would be to see if one of the bench players either distinguishes himself by playing well and increasing his trade value, or distinguishes himself as needing to be removed from the roster. If Paulie's ready earlier, though, I'd bring him back when the Sox are in Arlington. He's always hit pretty well there, whereas he hasn't been so great at Kauffman.

Back on topic: I would really hate it if Cabrera or Ramirez were to suffer a freak injury AFTER the Sox had traded away Uribe.

I agree with this logic... with the addition of the speed of Wise... what is the use of Ozuna? We need someone that won't be a liability playing in the field... we had that with Mack... I say let Ozuna go or send him back to the minors, he has to have options left right?

jabrch
07-02-2008, 01:24 PM
The roster spot he's wasting isn't enough?

I liked Juan a lot and wish he could have learned how to hit, but there's no room for him here.

Even as your backup IF who can effective play all 3 IF positions? I'd be really surprised if this was the consensus of our baseball people.

Why not just send BA back to Charlotte for a while until someone else gets injured? Why not send Russel down and go back a man in the pen and then wait until we need more bullpen depth?

I don't get the rush to trade Uribe for nothing.

oeo
07-02-2008, 01:24 PM
I agree with this logic... with the addition of the speed of Wise... what is the use of Ozuna? We need someone that won't be a liability playing in the field... we had that with Mack... I say let Ozuna go or send him back to the minors, he has to have options left right?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say no. Ozuna is a journeyman that made the team a few years ago.

Tragg
07-02-2008, 01:25 PM
No...but he helps minimize the damage. I don't want to see Ozuna, Richar or Getz getting major playing time due to injury. They're decent players...but I don't want them out there every day in a pennant race.
I'd certainly keep Uribe over Ozuna.
I'm not sure why the Sox feel otherwise, unless they think they can get something in return (obviously Ozuna has zero value).

chisoxfan79
07-02-2008, 01:37 PM
I have got a dumb question say Uribe does go to Baltimore what happens in that game those 2 teams have to finish in August Uribe hit a game tying homer in the 12th, will he be allowed to play for Baltimore in that game? and what do the Sox do Alexi is out of the game already, I know they can put Pablo at 2b but would Uribe be the first to play for 2 teams in the same game?

kittle42
07-02-2008, 01:40 PM
I have got a dumb question say Uribe does go to Baltimore what happens in that game those 2 teams have to finish in August Uribe hit a game tying homer in the 12th, will he be allowed to play for Baltimore in that game? and what do the Sox do Alexi is out of the game already, I know they can put Pablo at 2b but would Uribe be the first to play for 2 teams in the same game?

This has been covered here extensively.

FielderJones
07-02-2008, 01:51 PM
I have got a dumb question say Uribe does go to Baltimore what happens in that game those 2 teams have to finish in August Uribe hit a game tying homer in the 12th, will he be allowed to play for Baltimore in that game? and what do the Sox do Alexi is out of the game already, I know they can put Pablo at 2b but would Uribe be the first to play for 2 teams in the same game?


Rule 4.12(c) (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/04_starting_ending_game.pdf)

ondafarm
07-02-2008, 02:00 PM
Wouldn't it be great if Uribe, who hit the game tying homer in the 12th (for the Sox), made a game ending error in the 14th for Baltimore.

UofCSoxFan
07-02-2008, 02:07 PM
If were were to send Uribe down to the minors instead of trading/cutting him, would there be barriers to this?

I know he passed waivers before the year...would he have to pass again or do you have to pass only once a year? (for some reason I remember hearing this but it may have been in relaiton to after trade deadline deals)....also given his major league service time, I'm assuming he'd have to agree to going down to the minor, no?

asindc
07-02-2008, 02:12 PM
If were were to send Uribe down to the minors instead of trading/cutting him, would there be barriers to this?

I know he passed waivers before the year...would he have to pass again or do you have to pass only once a year? (for some reason I remember hearing this but it may have been in relaiton to after trade deadline deals)....also given his major league service time, I'm assuming he'd have to agree to going down to the minor, no?

Even if the Sox could, I don't think he would pass waivers. A few teams would be interested in him.

doublem23
07-02-2008, 02:30 PM
Why not just send BA back to Charlotte for a while until someone else gets injured? Why not send Russel down and go back a man in the pen and then wait until we need more bullpen depth?


Because Brian Anderson is a better player than Juan Uribe?

I'd rather get rid of Ozuna instead of Uribe, but one of them needs to leave immediately.

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2008, 02:38 PM
I'd rather get rid of Ozuna instead of Uribe, but one of them needs to leave immediately.

Nobody has to leave until Paulie comes back.

And I'd rather be patient with Paulie. It's not like the Sox are struggling to score runs without him, and it's not like Paulie was exactly tearing the cover off the ball before he went on the DL, and it's not like first base is a black hole offensively right now.

Jaffar
07-02-2008, 02:44 PM
Nobody has to leave until Paulie comes back.

And I'd rather be patient with Paulie. It's not like the Sox are struggling to score runs without him, and it's not like Paulie was exactly tearing the cover off the ball before he went on the DL, and it's not like first base is a black hole offensively or defensively right now.

Fixed it

Frater Perdurabo
07-02-2008, 03:02 PM
Fixed it

I appreciate it and agree with it! :D:

TDog
07-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Wouldn't it be great if Uribe, who hit the game tying homer in the 12th (for the Sox), made a game ending error in the 14th for Baltimore.

It would make for a great trivia question. But just about anything good or bad that Uribe would do for Baltimore would make for a great trivia question.

Really, extra-inning tie games should end as ties. They shouldn't be finished months later. The Orioles won't be the same team when the Sox go to Baltimore. If the Sox were making the trip in September, after the roster expansion, things would be even more extreme.

Tragg
07-02-2008, 03:44 PM
Ozuna go or send him back to the minors, he has to have options left right?
I really don't think it matters.
This is Ozuna.
As for Uribe, they could send him down too....if someone claims him, well 1/2 year salary is about all we'll get in trade.

jabrch
07-02-2008, 04:35 PM
Because Brian Anderson is a better player than Juan Uribe?

I'd rather get rid of Ozuna instead of Uribe, but one of them needs to leave immediately.

But we can send Anderson down to the minors and not lose him. Why should we force our own hand?

jabrch
07-02-2008, 04:37 PM
If were were to send Uribe down to the minors instead of trading/cutting him, would there be barriers to this?

I know he passed waivers before the year...would he have to pass again or do you have to pass only once a year? (for some reason I remember hearing this but it may have been in relaiton to after trade deadline deals)....also given his major league service time, I'm assuming he'd have to agree to going down to the minor, no?

He would just reject the minor league assignment and be a FA and we'd be on the hook for his salary. Can't send him down if he doesn't agree.

Tragg
07-02-2008, 04:45 PM
We need a 4th outfielder who can play outfield. That's why BA stays up.
No need to rush Konerko anyway.

TDog
07-02-2008, 05:14 PM
He would just reject the minor league assignment and be a FA and we'd be on the hook for his salary. Can't send him down if he doesn't agree.

I am probably wrong, but I thought that if a player chooses to take free agency over a minor league assignment, he gives up his major league contract.

JB98
07-02-2008, 05:35 PM
I still don't see why we need 12 pitchers.

When Konerko returns, send Russell down.

Uribe is a valuable insurance policy against a Crede injury. Anderson's glove is valuable to the Sox in the late innings. Wise's ability to steal a base is also quite valuable, as we saw last night.

I wouldn't get rid of any of these players.

Mohoney
07-03-2008, 12:37 AM
I'm probably just a sentimental fool. Maybe just a fool. That said, I wouldn't give up Juan unless I was getting back something that I felt would improve my team this season. Either BA or Russell can go down until we have some other injury or requirement for one of them to return.

The cash saved might come in handy for another deal.

Mohoney
07-03-2008, 12:39 AM
If were were to send Uribe down to the minors instead of trading/cutting him, would there be barriers to this?

I know he passed waivers before the year...would he have to pass again or do you have to pass only once a year? (for some reason I remember hearing this but it may have been in relaiton to after trade deadline deals)....also given his major league service time, I'm assuming he'd have to agree to going down to the minor, no?

IIRC, he did not clear waivers. I believe the Dodgers claimed him, and we pulled him back.

PorkChopExpress
07-03-2008, 01:33 PM
IIRC, he did not clear waivers. I believe the Dodgers claimed him, and we pulled him back.

Well, the Dodgers may want him again seeing as Furcal is out for the next couple of months. Come on KW, let's get a bidding war started over Uribe!

kittle42
07-03-2008, 02:50 PM
Come on KW, let's get a bidding war started over Uribe!

I hate teal, but I really hope it was implied there.

Lillian
07-05-2008, 09:00 AM
If the Dodgers are really so desperate for a SS, why not consider trading them Orlando Cabrera, instead of Uribe. Of course, we'd all prefer that it be Uribe, but it's hard to imagine that they would give up anything worth while for him. The article below indicates that they would give up something substantial for the right SS:

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080704&content_id=3063949&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

Now if they really would consider trading Matt Kemp, who else could the Sox include in order to get that done? O. C. and ? for Kemp.
Konerko would be an interesting part of that deal, but they already have Loney at First. I'd really rather not see Swisher back in Center.

Could Kemp play Center, and lead off?
Ramirez would go to SS
Richar, Getz or Uribe could play 2nd.
Getz is a prototypical "two hole" hitter. He bunts, and is a good contact hitter.
With Beckham coming by 2010, at least, Ramirez and Beckham should be viewed as the DP combo for the future, assuming he signs.
If we're not going to resign O.C., why not try to maximize his value now?

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 09:08 AM
If the Dodgers are really so desperate for a SS, why not consider trading them Orlando Cabrera, instead of Uribe. Of course, we'd all prefer that it be Uribe, but it's hard to imagine that they would give up anything worth while for him. The article below indicates that they would give up something substantial for the right SS:

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080704&content_id=3063949&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

Now if they really would consider trading Matt Kemp, who else could the Sox include in order to get that done? O. C. and ? for Kemp.

Could Kemp play Center, and lead off?
Ramirez would go to SS
Richar, Getz or Uribe could play 2nd.
Getz is a prototypical "two hole" hitter. He bunts, and is a good contact hitter.
With Beckham coming by 2010, at least, Ramirez and Beckham should be viewed as the DP combo for the future, assuming he signs.
If we're not going to resign O.C., why not try to maximize his value now?

OC is a big part of this team. His bat has been hot and his glove is top notch. It makes little sense to trade him now, especially for a CF. That means either Swisher or Konerko doesn't play. Also, we get 2 top draft picks if OC ends up leaving via free agency. So, trading him does not make sense, nor is it anywhere near a reality of happening.

Lillian
07-05-2008, 09:14 AM
OC is a big part of this team. His bat has been hot and his glove is top notch. It makes little sense to trade him now, especially for a CF. That means either Swisher or Konerko doesn't play. Also, we get 2 top draft picks if OC ends up leaving via free agency. So, trading him does not make sense, nor is it anywhere near a reality of happening.

I know that the Sox get 2 draft picks, and I understand that he has been playing really well since the Spring, but if he could bring back enough, especially a Center Fielder, who could lead off, wouldn't you be tempted?
The Sox have a lot of depth at middle infield, and they have an excess at First, with Konerko and Swisher.
If they could trade O. C. and Konerko, in order to let Swisher play First, and get a speedy Centerfielder with a good bat, wouldn't that give the team better balance?

Lillian
07-05-2008, 09:45 AM
The more I think about a trade with the Dodgers, the more intriguing it looks.
The Dodgers need a SS, they will have Andrew Jones back next year in Center, Loney has played a little outfield, and could take over in right for Kemp.

Kemp would give the Sox more speed, and has played some Centerfield.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodrep22-2008may22,0,4085221.story

The Sox with Kemp in Center, Alexei at SS, Swisher at First, and one of Richar, Getz, or even Uribe at 2nd, is a better team for the future, and even now. It frees up more salary for next year.
When Thome moves on, maybe the Sox would be able to add a big Free Agent or two.
If you aren't satisfied with Swisher at First, maybe he moves to Left, switching places with Quentin, who goes to right. Dye becomes the DH, and then maybe you try to sign Mark Teixeira to play First, and give you another switch hitter, and a great replacement for Thome's Left handed bat.

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 09:53 AM
I know that the Sox get 2 draft picks, and I understand that he has been playing really well since the Spring, but if he could bring back enough, especially a Center Fielder, who could lead off, wouldn't you be tempted?
The Sox have a lot of depth at middle infield, and they have an excess at First, with Konerko and Swisher.
If they could trade O. C. and Konerko, in order to let Swisher play First, and get a speedy Centerfielder with a good bat, wouldn't that give the team better balance?

The main problem with your proposed trade is that it is unrealistic. First, you are talking about taking out 22% of the every day starting line-up of a first place team. Second, you'd have to get PK to agree to any trade. There may be some advantages to it on paper, but there is 0% chance it happens.

Lukin13
07-05-2008, 09:55 AM
The more I think about a trade with the Dodgers, the more intriguing it looks.
The Dodgers need a SS, they will have Andrew Jones back next year in Center, Loney has played a little outfield, and could take over in right for Kemp.

Kemp would give the Sox more speed, and has played some Centerfield.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodrep22-2008may22,0,4085221.story

The Sox with Kemp in Center, Alexei at SS, Swisher at First, and one of Richar, Getz, or even Uribe at 2nd, is a better team for the future, and even now. It frees up more salary for next year.
When Thome moves on, maybe the Sox would be able to add a big Free Agent or two.
If you aren't satisfied with Swisher at First, maybe he moves to Left, switching places with Quentin, who goes to right. Dye becomes the DH, and then maybe you try to sign Mark Teixeira to play First, and give you another switch hitter, and a great replacement for Thome's Left handed bat.


#1 It is too hard for GMs to deal TypeA free agents with draft picks waiting, it will always be the easy decision to stand pat and usually the correct one.

#2 I have no problem taking a risk, but most would. OC is our leadoff hitter and starting shortstop.

#3 The WSox DO NOT need another guy that can KIND OF play centerfield. I like Kemp but with Quentin, Dye and Swisher we really have zero room for another corner outfielder.

2906
07-05-2008, 09:56 AM
maybe you try to sign Mark Teixeira to play First, and give you another switch hitter, and a great replacement for Thome's Left handed bat.
He's a Boras client, it won't happen.

Lillian
07-05-2008, 10:07 AM
The main problem with your proposed trade is that it is unrealistic. First, you are talking about taking out 22% of the every day starting line-up of a first place team. Second, you'd have to get PK to agree to any trade. There may be some advantages to it on paper, but there is 0% chance it happens.

Don't you think P.K. would agree to go to L.A.?

Lillian
07-05-2008, 10:23 AM
#1 It is too hard for GMs to deal TypeA free agents with draft picks waiting, it will always be the easy decision to stand pat and usually the correct one.

#2 I have no problem taking a risk, but most would. OC is our leadoff hitter and starting shortstop.


#3 The WSox DO NOT need another guy that can KIND OF play centerfield. I like Kemp but with Quentin, Dye and Swisher we really have zero room for another corner outfielder.

Kemp is a much better Centefielder than Swisher.
Ramirez is probably a better SS than Cabrera, judging from his play at Second, which is a new position for him. His tools are certainly better. He has better range and a better arm.
O.C. is not a protypical lead off hitter.

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Don't you think P.K. would agree to go to L.A.?

No. They suck. Why leave a 1st place team in a city he likes to go to a ****ty team in a ****ty division?

russ99
07-05-2008, 11:14 AM
#1 It is too hard for GMs to deal TypeA free agents with draft picks waiting, it will always be the easy decision to stand pat and usually the correct one.

#2 I have no problem taking a risk, but most would. OC is our leadoff hitter and starting shortstop.

#3 The WSox DO NOT need another guy that can KIND OF play centerfield. I like Kemp but with Quentin, Dye and Swisher we really have zero room for another corner outfielder.

#4 Looks to me that bygones are bygones after the scorer incident and O.C. has really fit in with this team. So there still is an outside chance he may re-sign with us. Besides, Cabrera and Ramirez is a heck of a lot better than Ramirez and anyone else on our major/minor league roster.

Also, it's obvious Juan's playing a lot so the Sox can showcase him to other teams.

Lillian
07-05-2008, 11:20 AM
#4 Looks to me that bygones are bygones after the scorer incident and O.C. has really fit in with this team. So there still is an outside chance he may re-sign with us. Besides, Cabrera and Ramirez is a heck of a lot better than Ramirez and anyone else on our major/minor league roster.

Also, it's obvious Juan's playing a lot so the Sox can showcase him to other teams.

It's hard to imagine the Sox signing O.C. to a long term deal with Beckham slated for SS or Second in a couple of years.

kittle42
07-05-2008, 11:30 AM
All I have to say is that I wish Uribe was gone already. They're playing him right now in an attempt to peddle him to other teams and every time his bat is in the lineup, someone better is left out, and it hurts this team's chances of winning.

Lillian
07-05-2008, 11:39 AM
I was anticipating someone objecting to this trade idea on the grounds that both O.C. and Konerko are too valuable as team leaders. That would be a valid concern, though I think O. C. has not really delivered on management's expectations, in the leadership department.

Paulie has long been recognized as the Club House leader. Without him there, who would take over his leadership role? Swisher is more of a cheer leader, and is a little to "flakey" to be considered as a serious leader. I suppose A. J. would be a candidate.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-05-2008, 11:44 AM
#4 Looks to me that bygones are bygones after the scorer incident and O.C. has really fit in with this team. So there still is an outside chance he may re-sign with us. Besides, Cabrera and Ramirez is a heck of a lot better than Ramirez and anyone else on our major/minor league roster.

Also, it's obvious Juan's playing a lot so the Sox can showcase him to other teams.

Is it really possible to "showcase" Uribe? My strategy would be to hide him as much as possible, so another club cannot see all his flaws and drive them away from the trade table.

Tragg
07-05-2008, 12:14 PM
#4 Looks to me that bygones are bygones after the scorer incident and O.C. has really fit in with this team. So there still is an outside chance he may re-sign with us. Besides, Cabrera and Ramirez is a heck of a lot better than Ramirez and anyone else on our major/minor league roster.

I would suggest offering him arbitration and taking the draft choices.

DickAllen72
07-05-2008, 02:16 PM
Is it really possible to "showcase" Uribe? My strategy would be to hide him as much as possible, so another club cannot see all his flaws and drive them away from the trade table.
By now everyone in MLB knows that Uribe is a top notch defensive SS who strikes out too much, is very streaky at the plate and who usually winds up hitting about 20 HRs and drives in about 70.

You "showcase" him to prove he is healthy. No one wants to risk trading for a guy who is not playing at all after being on the DL.

Tragg
07-05-2008, 02:32 PM
By now everyone in MLB knows that Uribe is a top notch defensive SS who strikes out too much, is very streaky at the plate and who usually winds up hitting about 20 HRs and drives in about 70.

You "showcase" him to prove he is healthy. No one wants to risk trading for a guy who is not playing at all after being on the DL.
I agree with that.
What are we looking for here - just someone to take his salary? Or do we think we can get a legitimate player?

Lip Man 1
07-05-2008, 03:26 PM
Russ:

To me it looks like Tragg's suggestion works best. Offer arbitration and if he declines it, take the draft picks...put Fields at 3rd base (since Crede is leaving), move Ramirez to short (supposedly his best position) and go out and trade or sign a second baseman with some experience to keep mentoring Ramirez.

Remember shortstops are a lot harder to find then 2nd baseman, the Sox are fortunate that they can slide Ramirez into that position.

Lip

Lillian
07-05-2008, 03:38 PM
Russ:

To me it looks like Tragg's suggestion works best. Offer arbitration and if he declines it, take the draft picks...put Fields at 3rd base (since Crede is leaving), move Ramirez to short (supposedly his best position) and go out and trade or sign a second baseman with some experience to keep mentoring Ramirez.

Remember shortstops are a lot harder to find then 2nd baseman, the Sox are fortunate that they can slide Ramirez into that position.

Lip

Why trade for a second baseman with Beckham likely coming in 2010?
They should be able to get by with Getz or Richar next year.

Lip Man 1
07-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Lillian:

Considering the status of the Sox farm system that's a risk I'm not willing to take. Assuming he signs with the Sox (no guarantees) that's a pretty fast track for anyone...one year in the minor leagues before immediately heading up to the pro's.

Either way the Sox are going to need some qualified insurance at that position. Getz and Richar don't have that experience in my opinion.

Lip

UofCSoxFan
07-05-2008, 04:40 PM
I have a feelilng the lead up to the trade deadline is going to be horrible on here. Thre really aren't many options for Kenny. We aren't trading our leadoff hitter and very good defensive shortstop. NOT HAPPENING.

Konerko, isn't going anywhere. He took less money to be here and isn't about to go to a mediocre team from a team that is a World Series threat (even though said trade may be better for the White Sox).

Trading for a leadoff hitter type CF, which we need most, isn't going to happen since doing so we would have to move Thome or Konerko (which isn't happening as said before) because we aren't sitting Thome, Konerko, or Swisher as long as they are on the team and there would be no other way to get the CF into the game. At C, 3B, 2B, LF and RF we are set.

The most we are going to trade for is another bench bat or another bullpen arm.

I just people realize that there is little KW can do right now and don't call him cheap or overcautious if the Tigers or Twins make a splash (which I don't really see happening either since neither team is in position to add significant payroll and the Tigers have very few tradeable assets).

UofCSoxFan
07-05-2008, 04:42 PM
Lillian:

Considering the status of the Sox farm system that's a risk I'm not willing to take. Assuming he signs with the Sox (no guarantees) that's a pretty fast track for anyone...one year in the minor leagues before immediately heading up to the pro's.

Either way the Sox are going to need some qualified insurance at that position. Getz and Richar don't have that experience in my opinion.

Lip

Keith Law (Baseball Prospectus) said during one of his chats that he expects Beckham to be on the Sox opening day roster in 2010. But I agree, that is a ton to bank on right now, especially since we haven't even signed the guy yet.

ilsox7
07-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Keith Law (Baseball Prospectus) said during one of his chats that he expects Beckham to be on the Sox opening day roster in 2010. But I agree, that is a ton to bank on right now, especially since we haven't even signed the guy yet.

It worries me that Law likes him.

Tragg
07-05-2008, 05:15 PM
We have Richar; we have Getz. 2B is about the easiest position to fill in general, and specifically, we have good AAA players. Richar was a good minor leaguer. He handled the positioon last year - struggled some at the plate, but gosh he has potential. And Getz can hit.
The Sox #1 offensive need, imo, isn't a position, but is someone to lead off games. Richar might be able to do that if he hits like he did in the lower minors and with Arizona's AAA team.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2008, 05:30 PM
The Sox #1 offensive need, imo, isn't a position, but is someone to lead off games. Richar might be able to do that if he hits like he did in the lower minors and with Arizona's AAA team.

I agree that leadoff hitter is the biggest need on offense looking toward 2009. It's likely that Thome is gone. Even so, the Sox still will have lots of power with Paulie, Dye, Quentin, Swisher and Fields/Crede. What about using the DH spot for a speedy, good average and/or OBP guy to be the leadoff hitter (free agent or trade)?

Tragg
07-05-2008, 05:41 PM
What about using the DH spot for a speedy, good average and/or OBP guy to be the leadoff hitter (free agent or trade)?OF for that. Speedy OBP guys can usually field a position.
I do think that if we are going to get an OBP guy, it's going to have to be a veteran. If a young player goes up there taking pitches, he won't start on this team.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2008, 07:32 PM
OF for that. Speedy OBP guys can usually field a position.
I do think that if we are going to get an OBP guy, it's going to have to be a veteran. If a young player goes up there taking pitches, he won't start on this team.

We have a pretty good defensive OF, even with Dye's declining speed, so whoever is brought in would have to be Dye's equal defensively (maybe more speed and less arm).

Lip Man 1
07-05-2008, 10:03 PM
UofC:

No disrespect to you but what Keith Law says about ANYTHING I let go in one ear and out the other. His feelings towards the White Sox organization are well known.

Lip

Tragg
07-05-2008, 10:07 PM
I have a feelilng the lead up to the trade deadline is going to be horrible on here. Thre really aren't many options for Kenny. We aren't trading our leadoff hitter and very good defensive shortstop. NOT HAPPENING.
That's fine with me. I wasn't in favor of a big trade in July 2005, and I doubt I will be in 3 weeks. I want the Sox to contend every year....loading up for 1 year only provides marginal help that year.