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SpartanSoxFan
06-30-2008, 11:16 PM
Hey,

I don't mean to be a dark cloud in high times like these. I am very happy with where we are at as a team, but I do have a big concern about Joe Crede. With 1 more error tonight, Joe is leading the AL 3rd baseman in that category. Last night's imitation of Bill Buckner was especially painful to watch. He is a shadow of his MVP-like self from the postseason three years ago defensively. My question is this....should the Sox place Crede on the DL when Paulie gets off, give him a day off or two, or just let him play through the back problems he is clearly displaying on the field? Last I heard Josh Fields is struggling in the minors so calling him up probably isn't the most ideal option. However, I would like to see him on the 15-day DL to rest his back so he can get through the 2nd half as best he can.

Thoughts?

JB98
06-30-2008, 11:19 PM
My opinion: Tell Crede to make the damn routine plays.

The errors the last two nights have nothing to do with a back injury.

JGarlandrules20
06-30-2008, 11:33 PM
I really think this is a mental thing with Joe and not so much a physical thing.

He was in much more pain in '07 and I don't recall him making this many errors.

ilsox7
06-30-2008, 11:34 PM
I really think this is a mental thing with Joe and not so much a physical thing.

He was in much more pain in '07 and I don't recall him making this many errors.

I agree. Though Joe has said his back will never be 100% again, so who knows. But generally, when a guy has this much difficulty making a routine throw, it's mental.

guillen4life13
06-30-2008, 11:37 PM
I don't think it has to do with his back. And I would just say that Crede has still made some incredible stops this year.

I can't think of a single game where he committed an error that caused the Sox to lose. When an error of his causes a run to score, the Sox have not lost (or if they lost, it was by a margin much greater than the unearned run and ensuing runs the inning of said error).

Joe Crede will be fine. I'm more worried about the homer or nothing type approach he's been having at the plate, but then again, that approach seems to be present in a lot of other players as well.

Lip Man 1
06-30-2008, 11:38 PM
Robin Ventura had a horrible 1995 season defensively, perhaps part of it was due to the long layoff via the labor impasse, but sometimes you can get in a "slump" for want of a better word as well on defense.

Robin came back strong in 1996.

I think Joe's situation is a combination of things. The long layoff due to his back (which probably will never be the same again) but I also think his free agency is probably also in the back of his mind.

It's a major thing and I can't see how Joe (or anyone else in that spot) can simply "ignore" it.

With the Sox in the race, he's not going anywhere and it doesn't look like a contract extension will be coming, not with his agent, so you just go day to day with him and get Josh Fields healthy just in case.

Lip

FedEx227
06-30-2008, 11:53 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't think he's playing real bad defense?

A lot of people are spoiled by the error stat, it's probably the worst stat in baseball.

Obviously he's not the same defender he was before, but he is still one of the more aggressive 3B in the league which in turns leads to a lot of his errors. What he may dive for and drop out of his glove most guys let fly past them. Most guys don't range to their right as much as he does. Add in the fact that MANY teams and official scorers are very sketchy about their definition of an error. I saw Rickie Weeks take two grounders off the chest in Milwaukee that were ruled hits.

Now obviously Zone Rating isn't great either, but it tells a good story that Crede has gotten a bit worse, but league-wise he's still holding his own.

Crede's Zone Rating

2005: .799 (6th in MLB)
2006: .790 (7th in MLB)
2007: .831 (Unqualified; Only 46 games)
2008: .816 (6th in MLB)

High Mileage
06-30-2008, 11:57 PM
He's coming to KC this off-season and will split time with Butler at first and DH.

voodoochile
07-01-2008, 12:11 AM
He's coming to KC this off-season and will split time with Butler at first and DH.

Good luck with that. Tell ya what, go tell someone on the Royals boards.

102605
07-01-2008, 12:29 AM
Good luck with that. Tell ya what, go tell someone on the Royals boards.


Banned for that? Thats kind of a joke.:scratch: He is already stuck being a Royals fan. That is punishment enough.

mcfish
07-01-2008, 12:32 AM
I agree. Though Joe has said his back will never be 100% again, so who knows. But generally, when a guy has this much difficulty making a routine throw, it's mental.Chuck Knoblauch?

BadBobbyJenks
07-01-2008, 12:34 AM
Banned for that? Thats kind of a joke.:scratch: He is already stuck being a Royals fan. That is punishment enough.

Yea, he seemed pretty harmless. Self loathing Royals fan.

102605
07-01-2008, 12:36 AM
Yea, he seemed pretty harmless. Self loathing Royals fan.


Absolutely. Read the guys posts. I don't see anything that would be considered trolling.

soltrain21
07-01-2008, 12:44 AM
Good luck with that. Tell ya what, go tell someone on the Royals boards.


Cmon, Voodoo. He wasn't trolling.

kevingrt
07-01-2008, 12:49 AM
My opinion: Tell Crede to make the damn routine plays.

The errors the last two nights have nothing to do with a back injury.

Completely agree. Throwing errors should not be a problem with the back.

MisterB
07-01-2008, 01:19 AM
I can't think of a single game where he committed an error that caused the Sox to lose. When an error of his causes a run to score, the Sox have not lost (or if they lost, it was by a margin much greater than the unearned run and ensuing runs the inning of said error.

5/2 vs. the Jays: Sox lost 0-2 on 2 unearned runs stemming from a 2-out Crede error.

5/3: A Crede 2-out error lead to 3 unearned Jays runs - the Sox lose 2-5.

5/12: A Crede 2-out error contributes to 4 unearned runs by the Angels. Sox lose 7-10.

That was a rough couple of weeks for Joe there.

doublem23
07-01-2008, 07:01 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think he's playing real bad defense?

A lot of people are spoiled by the error stat, it's probably the worst stat in baseball.

Obviously he's not the same defender he was before, but he is still one of the more aggressive 3B in the league which in turns leads to a lot of his errors. What he may dive for and drop out of his glove most guys let fly past them. Most guys don't range to their right as much as he does. Add in the fact that MANY teams and official scorers are very sketchy about their definition of an error. I saw Rickie Weeks take two grounders off the chest in Milwaukee that were ruled hits.

Now obviously Zone Rating isn't great either, but it tells a good story that Crede has gotten a bit worse, but league-wise he's still holding his own.

Crede's Zone Rating

2005: .799 (6th in MLB)
2006: .790 (7th in MLB)
2007: .831 (Unqualified; Only 46 games)
2008: .816 (6th in MLB)

ZR is a terrible stat.

High Mileage
08-01-2008, 01:59 PM
He's coming to KC this off-season and will split time with Butler at first and DH.
Good luck with that. Tell ya what, go tell someone on the Royals boards.
Banned for that? Thats kind of a joke.:scratch: He is already stuck being a Royals fan. That is punishment enough.
Yea, he seemed pretty harmless. Self loathing Royals fan.
Absolutely. Read the guys posts. I don't see anything that would be considered trolling.
Cmon, Voodoo. He wasn't trolling.
Maybe I should have used the teal? Oh well, month vacation and I'm back just in-time for another Royals/White Sox series, should be a good one...