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getonbckthr
06-30-2008, 06:52 PM
I'm starting to wonder watching Alexei and OC playing 2B and SS and what we saw from Fields last season who is more important to resign at the end of this season? Is it Joe Crede or Orlando Cabrera?

Frater Perdurabo
06-30-2008, 06:56 PM
Crede, no question.

Given Ramirez's play, the Sox have a ready replacement for Cabrera. In fact, Alexei is a better defensive player than OC.

But if Crede leaves, Fields will be the replacement. That would be a big defensive downgrade.

Therefore, trying to re-sign Crede should be the top priority.

JB98
06-30-2008, 06:56 PM
Crede.

Fields is having a bad, injury-plagued year. He's not going to get any better defensively on the DL. He'd be a major downgrade at 3B at this point.

If we lose OC, we can move Ramirez to short and plug in Richar at 2B and not feel too bad. Especially knowing that Gordon Beckham might be on our team as a middle infielder by late 2009.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-30-2008, 07:06 PM
Crede has 15 errors, the most in the majors for his position, and he's batting .102 for the year vs. lefties. He's hurting his own cause right now in the free agent market, not that a lot of teams won't throw big money and a contract at him, but I have to wonder how much his back is an issue.

Does he need a full year to get back into the groove, or are his skills slowly deteriorating? Seeing the ball go through his legs last night makes me think it's the latter.

And if that's the case, Fields would not be worse defensively than Crede next year and beyond. Crede is still good in the clutch, but I don't think it will be worth offering Crede a five-year contract worth $30 or $40 million or more when this season's done.

Tragg
06-30-2008, 07:14 PM
The other side of this is that we should have good money to sign a couple of our own FAs.
Cabrera's hard to figure ...I think he takes a pay cut. And if so, it's highly likely it won't be with us. I don't think Williams can risk offering him arbitration.
In the realm of SS, Cabrera's an above average hitter. But we should be okay with Ramirez and Richar.

Crede - that's a big chance if the Sox are counting on Fields to play the position.

thomas35forever
06-30-2008, 08:49 PM
Cabrera can walk if he wants. We already have Alexei ready to switch over to short next year.

KW needs to offer whatever he can to keep Crede around. Yes he's making more errors this season, but he still flashes the leather and can always be a dangerous hitter in the clutch despite his recent struggles. Sorry Josh Fields, but Crede is our man.

lizard6king6
06-30-2008, 09:48 PM
I think we need to tie Quentin up with a nice contract but other than that, both Crede and Cabrera are important to resign but it all depends on how much money they want as well as years. I'll just wait and let KW do his job.

ilsox7
06-30-2008, 09:53 PM
I think we need to tie Quentin up with a nice contract but other than that, both Crede and Cabrera are important to resign but it all depends on how much money they want as well as years. I'll just wait and let KW do his job.

TCQ is under the Sox's control for many years.

cws05champ
06-30-2008, 09:56 PM
The other side of this is that we should have good money to sign a couple of our own FAs.
Cabrera's hard to figure ...I think he takes a pay cut. And if so, it's highly likely it won't be with us. I don't think Williams can risk offering him arbitration.
In the realm of SS, Cabrera's an above average hitter. But we should be okay with Ramirez and Richar.

Crede - that's a big chance if the Sox are counting on Fields to play the position.
I don't think you can risk NOT offering arbitration. He'll be a type A free agent which means two draft picks. If he accepts arb, he'll get more $$ but for only one year, not a multi year deal.

The question is do you want Fields, Cabrera, Ramirez or Crede, Ramirez, Richar/other FA 2B.
Or if Cabrera and Crede both walk and we get 3-4 draft picks, we could then move Alexei to SS, Fields at 3B and sign a guy like Mark Ellis for 2B.

viagracat
06-30-2008, 10:18 PM
Crede has 15 errors, the most in the majors for his position, and he's batting .102 for the year vs. lefties. He's hurting his own cause right now in the free agent market, not that a lot of teams won't throw big money and a contract at him, but I have to wonder how much his back is an issue.

Does he need a full year to get back into the groove, or are his skills slowly deteriorating? Seeing the ball go through his legs last night makes me think it's the latter.

And if that's the case, Fields would not be worse defensively than Crede next year and beyond. Crede is still good in the clutch, but I don't think it will be worth offering Crede a five-year contract worth $30 or $40 million or more when this season's done.

Yes, Crede does have 15 errors, but he still makes more than his share of big plays at the position. He also seems to be a good clubhouse guy.

He is currently batting under .100 against lefties, which is truly bizarre. Hopefully that is an aberration.

Domeshot17
06-30-2008, 11:07 PM
I said Neither. If either stay it is nice, but we have a tremendous 3b prospect in Fields ready to take over at 3rd, and next year WORST case Cuban Missle at SS and Richar at 2b, if not there is a glut of middle IF on the FA market.

While I don't think Josh will make the game saving play Crede does every now and then, I also think he wont be throwing every other ball into the stands, and he will hit for more power.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-30-2008, 11:14 PM
I had voted neither. The Sox will be fine without either player next year, though I think they would miss OC more. As the year goes on, I think Cabrera will rise in everyone's estimations as to what he can do day in and day out. He'll be solid in the field and at the plate. He does a lot of the little things you need.

I hate to think what Crede will be like five years from now, when he's 35 and there are five more years of wear and tear on his back. I don't see JR and KW giving him a five-year contract. Fields, a free agent, or someone else will be playing 3B next year for the Sox.

Tragg
07-01-2008, 12:00 AM
I don't think you can risk NOT offering arbitration. He'll be a type A free agent which means two draft picks. If he accepts arb, he'll get more $$ but for only one year, not a multi year deal.

.
We need those draft picks. But, we'll probably end up paying Cabrera above market if we offer arb.
How does that work -we offer, he accepts, then we get picks the following year - when he leaves?

hawkjt
07-01-2008, 12:05 AM
Unless crede has a real flareup with his back and puts up the same numbers in the second half he will end up with 30 hrs, and 96 rbis... and will need to be re-signed. If we did not have alexi then it would be different but with him, OC can be allowed to walk.

mcfish
07-01-2008, 12:28 AM
Unless crede has a real flareup with his back and puts up the same numbers in the second half he will end up with 30 hrs, and 96 rbis... and will need to be re-signed. If we did not have alexi then it would be different but with him, OC can be allowed to walk.You don't think Fields could put up 30 hrs and 96 rbi's? It's not the offense that people have questions with for Fields, it's the defense. And I think he would have a pretty good shot at staying at or below 32 errors (if one were to extrapolate those using the same scientific method you used to extrapolate Crede's hrs and rbis).

No reason not to resign Crede for a resonable price, but if he wants what Borass tells him he deserves then he can walk.

Nellie_Fox
07-01-2008, 02:19 AM
I don't think there is any question. I don't see how anyone can see Fields as a "tremendous 3b prospect," since his defense was terrible, and other than show some power, I wasn't impressed with his offense. I don't see the Sox as having an answer ready to take over third; they'd have to look at the free-agent market or bite the bullet at that position.

The Cabrera situation is pretty much a no-lose deal. Offer him arbitration, which he'll probably turn down, as he will want a multi-year, big money contract, and the Sox get draft choices for him and Alexei moves over. Even if he takes arbitration, I don't see having him for another year as a big problem.

chisoxfanatic
07-01-2008, 02:22 AM
I selected that I'd want both to return; but, if a gun was put to my head, I'd have to go with Crede over O-C. We can easily have Uribe slide back to our starting SS. We do not have any formidable back-ups for Crede at this moment. I know Uribe is a downgrade offensively; but, he's still good in the field, and we already have a great 2nd baseman in Alexei.

Nellie_Fox
07-01-2008, 02:24 AM
I selected that I'd want both to return; but, if a gun was put to my head, I'd have to go with Crede over O-C. We can easily have Uribe slide back to our starting SS. We do not have any formidable back-ups for Crede at this moment. I know Uribe is a downgrade offensively; but, he's still good in the field, and we already have a great 2nd baseman in Alexei.
Actually, you could toss a coin as to whether to play Alexei or Uribe at short or second, and defensively you'd be just fine.

ilsox7
07-01-2008, 02:28 AM
Actually, you could toss a coin as to whether to play Alexei or Uribe at short or second, and defensively you'd be just fine.

I have a pretty good feeling there is no way Juan Uribe is a member of the 2009 Chicago White Sox. In fact, I think he may not be a member of the 2008 Chicago White Sox much longer, if the rumors out there come true (for once).

jabrch
07-01-2008, 03:23 AM
We have enough diversity that either can be kept or lost. Alexei can play SS. Fields can play 3B.

KW has not tied 2009 to any single FA - keeping one, or signing someone elses.

Nellie_Fox
07-01-2008, 03:46 AM
Fields can play 3B. I've seen absolutely no evidence of that.

Lillian
07-01-2008, 07:40 AM
I don't think there is any question. I don't see how anyone can see Fields as a "tremendous 3b prospect," since his defense was terrible, and other than show some power, I wasn't impressed with his offense. I don't see the Sox as having an answer ready to take over third; they'd have to look at the free-agent market or bite the bullet at that position.

The Cabrera situation is pretty much a no-lose deal. Offer him arbitration, which he'll probably turn down, as he will want a multi-year, big money contract, and the Sox get draft choices for him and Alexei moves over. Even if he takes arbitration, I don't see having him for another year as a big problem.

Your take is the most valid analysis. It would be surprising if K.W. was thinking any differently. As you said, "I don't think there is any question..".

PopsBrechtel
07-01-2008, 08:57 AM
Crede, Crede, Crede

The Immigrant
07-01-2008, 09:03 AM
I've seen absolutely no evidence of that.

He's the best 3B prospect in baseball and a tremendous athlete. He will only get better on defense and his offense is already a plus. I know that Crede is a known commodity and nobody here wants to see him leave (despite his league-leading error totals and dismal numbers against lefties), but signing Crede for more than three years would be a mistake.

Offer arbitration to Cabrera. Take the draft picks if he declines; if he accepts, you give Ramirez another year at 2B before he takes over at SS.

Over By There
07-01-2008, 09:23 AM
Although I think we'd be fine without either of them, I voted Crede, because I think he's part of the fabric of this team. And while he's having a down year defensively, I still love watching him play the hot corner.

As far as Cabrera, I think it's a moot point - I really don't think he wants to be here, and I can't see him accepting arbitration, much less signing any kind of long term deal. Although things have been quiet lately, I was really turned off by some of his comments/actions earlier this season, so I won't shed a tear when he's gone.

jabrch
07-01-2008, 09:59 AM
Furcal...

palehozenychicty
07-01-2008, 10:06 AM
They'll be okay without them. Crede's offensive numbers aren't that balanced overall, and his throwing issues are a concern. I don't think he's worth more than three years, if that.

We have a glut of middle infielders, even when Uribe is shipped out in Richar, Ramirez, and Getz. I think Richar and Getz can get it done until Beckham is ready.

I think Fields will be fine once he heals to do a competent defensive job at third. He'll be a more consistent offensive force with playing time.

JohnTucker0814
07-01-2008, 10:08 AM
The other side of this is that we should have good money to sign a couple of our own FAs.
Cabrera's hard to figure ...I think he takes a pay cut. And if so, it's highly likely it won't be with us. I don't think Williams can risk offering him arbitration.
In the realm of SS, Cabrera's an above average hitter. But we should be okay with Ramirez and Richar.

Crede - that's a big chance if the Sox are counting on Fields to play the position.

Why would we not offer Cabrera arbitration? What's the worst thing that could happen... he accepts and we are on the hook for 1 more year of him? I would be okay with that... the downside to NOT offering him arbitration is we get ZERO compensation in draft picks when he signs else where. Cabrera is at an age where he wants a multi-year deal, and he will get one. He will almost certainly NOT accept arbitration!

BeviBall!
07-01-2008, 10:13 AM
I wouldn't have said it a month ago, but Cabrera has really found his wings. After Crede's 16th error, I'm thinking there may be a better option out there. I'd hope for both, but Caberea + Ramirez's growth is more important.

Bev

Mohoney
07-01-2008, 10:14 AM
There is only one solution. Win the World Series again, and use the added revenue to pay both of them. That way, we can buy more time for Beckham and move Fields to DH.

PolishPower83
07-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Cabrera has really grown on me --- he's taking more pitches in the leadoff slot, he's hitting the ball to every part of the field and his glove is outstanding.

But there is a thing called loyalty (even though it's not very prevelant today) and Joe Freakin' Crede deserves to be rewarded by the Sox. He's our best option at 3B.

Fields or Paulie can DH next year and Dye can stay in right field. JD may be slow, but he's playing some of the best defense I've seen him play.

russ99
07-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Why would we not offer Cabrera arbitration? What's the worst thing that could happen... he accepts and we are on the hook for 1 more year of him? I would be okay with that... the downside to NOT offering him arbitration is we get ZERO compensation in draft picks when he signs else where. Cabrera is at an age where he wants a multi-year deal, and he will get one. He will almost certainly NOT accept arbitration!

Actually I wouldn't mind Cabrera coming back. He's a much better hitter than Richar or our other 2B options, and he can lead off. We're a better club with him at SS and Alexei at 2B. I wouldn't break the bank on him, but a 1 or 2 year deal wouldn't be a bad idea if he wants to stay. Rushing Beckham isn't a good idea either, besides it takes a few years to wean these guys off of aluminum bats. I'd seriously doubt he'd be an option until September 2010 at the earliest.

Crede on the other hand, as much as we would like him back, I seriously doubt Boras even lets the Sox in on the bidding process. Despite what Jerry and Joe says, that's how Boras works. If Joe doesn't want to play the game, he'd have switched agents by now.

I'm hoping this year in AAA (when healthy) really helps develop Fields further and we'll see a more complete player next year.

wassagstdu
07-01-2008, 11:27 AM
I voted Crede strictly on the strength of his game-saving catch on Saturday -- and the fact that he was so much a part of the 2005 success. He has made too many important errors (costing at least two games and letting the Indians regain momentum last night). Maybe his back is bothering him or maybe he is distracted by being conflicted about free agency. Three years tops at a reasonable price, and of course that means he fires Boras.

Cabrera is good, but defensively I think he may be the third best shortstop on this team. Certainly Uribe is better than Cabrera, and Ramirez seems to have a better arm and hands.

white sox bill
07-01-2008, 11:40 AM
I voted Crede...not sold on Fields yet. Although with Boras as his agent, not looking good for Joe as a Sox (maybe BoSox) next yr

mcfish
07-01-2008, 12:32 PM
But there is a thing called loyalty (even though it's not very prevelant today) and Joe Freakin' Crede deserves to be rewarded by the Sox. He's our best option at 3B.
You're talking loyalty? About sports contracts? If there was any loyalty involved in this then Joe would have already signed the multi-year deal offered to him last year. Sticking with a guy (and paying him a ton) because he had a good World Series outing 3 years ago is a recipe for disaster.

Reward? It's not like he's making league minimum here. The man gets paid more than enough to play third.

PolishPower83
07-01-2008, 02:49 PM
If there was any loyalty involved in this then Joe would have already signed the multi-year deal offered to him last year. Sticking with a guy (and paying him a ton) because he had a good World Series outing 3 years ago is a recipe for disaster.

I wasn't saying Joe needs to have unwavering loyalty to the Sox. I know that's not how stuff works these days. It's fine with me if he wants to test the waters, he's entitled to that. But the Sox need to clear up some room and give the man his money. Simple as that.

Crede has given the Sox more than "a good World Series outing 3 years ago." He has saved countless games with his glove and won many with his bat. If you were to ask every Sox pitcher if they want Crede or Fields playing behind them I think we'd know their answer.

TommyGavinFloyd
07-01-2008, 04:40 PM
I voted for Crede and as long as Thome is gone/back at a reduced price I don't see why they can't work a deal out. I don't care if he is a Boras client, just keep the man in a Sox uniform.

Cuck the Fubs
07-01-2008, 04:43 PM
It has to be Crede, Josh just isn't anywhere as good with the glove.

Domeshot17
07-01-2008, 05:09 PM
I will stay take the word of MLB scouts over the brilliants of this board on Josh Fields D. There seems to be a general consensus that he will end up being fine at 3rd, and the biggest thing he has been working on is his footwork (which is the biggest thing he has to improve). He already has a better arm than Joe, and is much younger. He won't be joe with the glove, but he is already on par with him with the Bat and again, much younger. It Joe 5 years to be anything at all offensively, it takes Fields 1, and people want to write him off.

Fields at his age>>>>>>>> Crede at the same age

mcfish
07-01-2008, 05:18 PM
I wasn't saying Joe needs to have unwavering loyalty to the Sox. I know that's not how stuff works these days. It's fine with me if he wants to test the waters, he's entitled to that. But the Sox need to clear up some room and give the man his money. Simple as that.

Crede has given the Sox more than "a good World Series outing 3 years ago." He has saved countless games with his glove and won many with his bat. If you were to ask every Sox pitcher if they want Crede or Fields playing behind them I think we'd know their answer.Oh, so the loyalty is a one-way street coming from the organization. Didn't realize...

guillen4life13
07-01-2008, 05:45 PM
I will stay take the word of MLB scouts over the brilliants of this board on Josh Fields D. There seems to be a general consensus that he will end up being fine at 3rd, and the biggest thing he has been working on is his footwork (which is the biggest thing he has to improve). He already has a better arm than Joe, and is much younger. He won't be joe with the glove, but he is already on par with him with the Bat and again, much younger. It Joe 5 years to be anything at all offensively, it takes Fields 1, and people want to write him off.

Fields at his age>>>>>>>> Crede at the same age

No offense, but this post is just not sane. Fields is a arguably marginal offensive upgrade compared to Crede, especially considering that the White Sox do not need another high K, homer or nothing hitter. I happen to think that, if extrapolated over a full season, the difference in offensive production would be made up (and then some) by the difference in defense.

How's this to think about as well: In 153 AB's in AAA Charlotte this year, Fields has (count 'em) 50 K's and a .337 OBP. And you're telling me he will be better than Crede? Gimme a friggin' break!

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/josh-fields-1.shtml

Take a look at the 2008 disaster known as Josh Fields.

getonbckthr
07-01-2008, 05:47 PM
No offense, but this post is just not sane. Fields is a arguably marginal offensive upgrade compared to Crede, especially considering that the White Sox do not need another high K, homer or nothing hitter. I happen to think that, if extrapolated over a full season, the difference in offensive production would be made up (and then some) by the difference in defense.

How's this to think about as well: In 153 AB's in AAA Charlotte this year, Fields has (count 'em) 50 K's and a .337 OBP. And you're telling me he will be better than Crede? Gimme a friggin' break!

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/josh-fields-1.shtml

Take a look at the 2008 disaster known as Josh Fields.
Fields has been injured all year. That might have something to do with the struggles this season.

The Immigrant
07-01-2008, 05:53 PM
No offense, but this post is just not sane.

Sayeth the man who bases his rant on Fields' injury-plagued 2008 season. Crede's numbers were terrible in 2007! He's garbage!

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2008, 07:06 PM
I will stay take the word of MLB scouts over the brilliants of this board on Josh Fields D. There seems to be a general consensus that he will end up being fine at 3rd, and the biggest thing he has been working on is his footwork (which is the biggest thing he has to improve). He already has a better arm than Joe, and is much younger. He won't be joe with the glove, but he is already on par with him with the Bat and again, much younger. It Joe 5 years to be anything at all offensively, it takes Fields 1, and people want to write him off.

Fields at his age>>>>>>>> Crede at the same age

Perhaps as a hitter, but not as a fielder. Fields will never be as good as Crede with the glove.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-01-2008, 07:38 PM
No offense, but this post is just not sane. Fields is a arguably marginal offensive upgrade compared to Crede, especially considering that the White Sox do not need another high K, homer or nothing hitter. I happen to think that, if extrapolated over a full season, the difference in offensive production would be made up (and then some) by the difference in defense.

How's this to think about as well: In 153 AB's in AAA Charlotte this year, Fields has (count 'em) 50 K's and a .337 OBP. And you're telling me he will be better than Crede? Gimme a friggin' break!

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/josh-fields-1.shtml

Take a look at the 2008 disaster known as Josh Fields.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that if you accept that to be true--that they are about equal, but give Crede the edge on defense--for a marginal return you are going to have to pay Crede something like $30million or more over 5 years to keep him. If his back is a question (which I think has to be part of the equation), I can't see investing five years in him.

He has 16 errors this year already. Yes, he still makes some great plays, but his fielding does not make him an all-star or gold glove candidate anymore like everyone still thinks he is (maybe compared to Fields, yes). But will he be better or worse next year? And two years, three years, five years from now?

If I'm the GM, I would not take the risk on a longterm contract. I'd look to get younger and faster at a bunch of positions for 2009.

ilsox7
07-01-2008, 07:49 PM
The problem with that line of reasoning is that if you accept that to be true--that they are about equal, but give Crede the edge on defense--for a marginal return you are going to have to pay Crede something like $30million or more over 5 years to keep him. If his back is a question (which I think has to be part of the equation), I can't see investing five years in him.

He has 16 errors this year already. Yes, he still makes some great plays, but his fielding does not make him an all-star or gold glove candidate anymore like everyone still thinks he is (maybe compared to Fields, yes). But will he be better or worse next year? And two years, three years, five years from now?

If I'm the GM, I would not take the risk on a longterm contract. I'd look to get younger and faster at a bunch of positions for 2009.

If the Sox could get Crede for 5/30, that deal would be done already. My guess is Crede will be looking for 5/60 - 5/75. And someone just may give it to him.

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2008, 07:53 PM
I don't think it's an unwarranted risk to re-sign Crede to a five-year deal even given his history with back surgery.

Given Crede's terrible numbers against LHP this year, if he is with the Sox in 2009, I would support having Fields on the roster to DH (instead of Thome) and play 3B against LHP. Fields creamed LHP last year and resting Crede against LHP would be a sensible precaution. When Fields plays 3B, have Paulie DH and Swisher play 1B, or Dye DH and Swisher play RF.

guillen4life13
07-02-2008, 12:20 AM
The problem with that line of reasoning is that if you accept that to be true--that they are about equal, but give Crede the edge on defense--for a marginal return you are going to have to pay Crede something like $30million or more over 5 years to keep him. If his back is a question (which I think has to be part of the equation), I can't see investing five years in him.

He has 16 errors this year already. Yes, he still makes some great plays, but his fielding does not make him an all-star or gold glove candidate anymore like everyone still thinks he is (maybe compared to Fields, yes). But will he be better or worse next year? And two years, three years, five years from now?

If I'm the GM, I would not take the risk on a longterm contract. I'd look to get younger and faster at a bunch of positions for 2009.


I was aware that Fields had been injured for part of the season but was healthy again. Apparently this has changed.

Joe has 16 errors but--correct me if I'm wrong--has one of those errors made the difference between a win and a loss? Meanwhile his bat has been relatively solid (though his stats against LHP's aren't so hot) and he already has a good track record at this level.

My point is that the team does not need another high K, low OBP power guy. You might as well sign a guy like Ben Grieve or Greg Vaughn. Not bad players by any respect (well... Grieve was), but they're exactly what this team doesn't need.

I'd rather the Sox re-sign Crede or make a deal for another 3B. I'm not aware of the 3B's slated to hit the market next year. I don't have confidence in Fields to develop his plate patience. I don't like Thome's approach at the plate but at least the dude can take a walk from time to time.

BTW, what is Fields' injury and prognosis? I'm willing to let him change my mind on this if he shows that he is healthy and productive in Charlotte. For a first year player last year he was impressive (offensively), but if that's the product we're going to get, then I'd rather take my chances with someone else. Crede is also my favorite current Sox position player.

Oh, and FWIW, I trust Kenny to do the right thing and I don't think I'm any sort of expert.

I just don't really see Josh Fields as a viable 3B prospect but if he were to prove me wrong I would be very happy.

As for getting younger and faster next year, that will happen in the form of Ramirez (though this has sort of happened) and Richar. And probably CF (whoever takes it over for the long term, whether it's Anderson or Ramirez).

mcfish
07-02-2008, 12:33 AM
Joe has 16 errors but--correct me if I'm wrong--has one of those errors made the difference between a win and a loss?
Asked and answered...

I can't think of a single game where he committed an error that caused the Sox to lose. When an error of his causes a run to score, the Sox have not lost (or if they lost, it was by a margin much greater than the unearned run and ensuing runs the inning of said error).
5/2 vs. the Jays: Sox lost 0-2 on 2 unearned runs stemming from a 2-out Crede error.

5/3: A Crede 2-out error lead to 3 unearned Jays runs - the Sox lose 2-5.

5/12: A Crede 2-out error contributes to 4 unearned runs by the Angels. Sox lose 7-10.

That was a rough couple of weeks for Joe there.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1947107&postcount=16

guillen4life13
07-02-2008, 12:36 AM
Asked and answered...



http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1947107&postcount=16

Touche. Kind of feel a little stupid now. :redface:

mcfish
07-02-2008, 12:41 AM
Touche. Kind of feel a little stupid now. :redface:It happens... That thread has pretty much died at this point so it would be easy to miss. Plus you were probably distracted by the amazing finish tonight.

For all my pessimism against Joe, I still do think he's a very good player - I just don't understand how the myth that is Joe Crede and his defense around here has become so ingrained in most people's heads. A guy with 16 errors on July 1 is not playing Gold Glove caliber defense - I don't care how much you want to devalue the error stat.

Did he deserve a Gold Glove in 2005? Yes. Is he still the best fielding third baseman in baseball? No. Not right now at least.

Lukin13
07-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Ditch Crede because his offensive approach is too similar to our other star players.

Ditch Cabrera because he will not be worth the money that he will be seeking.

Spend the cheese somewhere else... most likely in 2010.

wsf4l
07-03-2008, 01:12 PM
I think it is much easier to find a replacement for 3b than ss. IF cabrera goes, than you have to find someone for 2b if they move alexei over to short. I don't know that getz is the answer at 2nd. You would have to bring him up to see how he does. Another option is rafeal furcal, who would give us speed and a short stop and we could just keep alexei at 2nd base. I would not want Crede to be locked up for more than 3 years especially with his bad back. Then you would have to find a place for fields maybe at first or you could trade him.

ChiSoxFan7
07-03-2008, 01:50 PM
with our minor league the way it is we do have POTENTIAL back up at ss (richar?/getz) and 3rd (fields). but with that being said, i think that OC has begun to improve his offensive approach and seemingly has helped the cuban missile to improve. he offers alot more in speed and health.

Joe is declining in his defense (sadly) and his offense however clutch it may be is inconsistent.

palehozenychicty
07-03-2008, 04:27 PM
I think it is much easier to find a replacement for 3b than ss. IF cabrera goes, than you have to find someone for 2b if they move alexei over to short. I don't know that getz is the answer at 2nd. You would have to bring him up to see how he does. Another option is rafeal furcal, who would give us speed and a short stop and we could just keep alexei at 2nd base. I would not want Crede to be locked up for more than 3 years especially with his bad back. Then you would have to find a place for fields maybe at first or you could trade him.

Furcal is about to go under the knife for his back and will be out at least two months. For a guy who relies on his speed and athleticism, you must pass if he becomes available.