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View Full Version : The Glove Flip


voodoochile
06-30-2008, 10:01 AM
Alexei has been tossing these off like they're nothing recently. Not only do they speed up the play allowing for ever faster more difficult DP possibilities, but they are just too cool to watch.

Seems they used to be more common or maybe I just thought they were because you would always see the highlights of them. I always wanted a DP combo who could execute plays like this because like I said, they are just too cool.

So what's your thoughts, greatest thing ever or hotdog showmanship for no particular reason?

1400 S. State
06-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Alexei has been tossing these off like they're nothing recently. Not only do they speed up the play allowing for ever faster more difficult DP possibilities, but they are just too cool to watch.

Seems they used to be more common or maybe I just thought they were because you would always see the highlights of them. I always wanted a DP combo who could execute plays like this because like I said, they are just too cool.

So what's your thoughts, greatest thing ever or hotdog showmanship for no particular reason?

showmanship. It will cost us one of these days.

FielderJones
06-30-2008, 10:06 AM
By not transferring the ball to the other hand you probably save between 0.3 and 0.5 seconds, which could be the difference in a double play on a fast batter. I like it.

JohnTucker0814
06-30-2008, 10:07 AM
I don't think they are showmanship in the least... Sometimes that is your only chance to get a runner, as you're moving up the middle and by the time you get your balance to make an underhand toss, it will be too late.

We used to play the "flip" game before each game and practice as middle infielders to help with this. You would stand in a circle and play hot potato and you could only use your glove.

balke
06-30-2008, 10:07 AM
It worked last night, and is cool to have on the team. It could definitely hurt at some point though. I keep waiting for Swisher to throw the ball into left field trying to get the runner out at 2nd. I appreciate the effort so long as that doesn't happen though.

Pear-Zin-Ski
06-30-2008, 10:11 AM
How was Alexei supposed to make that play otherwise? His momentum was 1000% striaght forward and by the time he got the ball to his hand he would've been behind O-Cab...and there is no way Orlando can spin around that fast to fire it over to first....

You do what you have to do to win...and Alexei did it in style....

102605
06-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Showmanship? :scratch:

C'mon people. Alexei and Orlando are going to get more outs than this than errors or missing plays. Yeah they might botch a play sometime in the upcoming weeks but I think they are going to succeed with it a bit more.

whitem0nkey
06-30-2008, 10:13 AM
I was at the game yesterday and Alexei does practice this in between innings. it seems like he has been using this for a while, and is quite effective with it.

Law11
06-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Robbie Alomar was a master at the flip.. Alexi looks good though.

102605
06-30-2008, 10:14 AM
Robbie Alomar was a master at the flip.. Alexi looks good though.

ALEXEI

asindc
06-30-2008, 10:15 AM
showmanship. It will cost us one of these days.

Just because it's stylish doesn't mean it isn't practical. If he is executing these flawlessly (and he is), there is not much risk involved. Of course, if he can catch, set his feet, reach into his glove and turn the DP w/o resorting to the glove flip, he should. But there are many plays where he would not have the time to do all that. So, glove flip it is. After all, he is not doing it on routine plays.

The only reason the DP was not turned on that play is because OC could not (or did not want to risk a wild throw) get the ball out of his glove in time. Without the glove flip, they might have missed both runners. I have no problem with the play and hope to see more of it. Bottom line, a team can botch routine plays as well. I see no higher error rate with Alexei and OC turning plays like that.

ArkanSox
06-30-2008, 10:28 AM
It was a great play last night, and at the time I was surprised that OC didn't just barehand the soft, perfect flip.

I guess he figured it wasn't necessary because as asindc said, if he wouldn't have double-clutched, he would have had the DP anyway.

With they size of Alexei's glove, he must practice the flip a lot, because he sure makes it look easy.

comet2k
06-30-2008, 10:28 AM
You can screw up transfering the ball from your glove to your hand, and once it's in your hand you can make a bad throw. I think it's just a matter of judgment that he didn't have time to throw.

MeteorsSox4367
06-30-2008, 10:33 AM
If it helps the Sox turn two, I'm all for it.

I don't know if it's on YouTube, but there was a glove flip made by Washington second baseman Ronnie Belliard last season that was one of the best plays I've seen in quite some time.

PolishPower83
06-30-2008, 10:34 AM
The flip is a thing of beauty and Alexei's defense is looking better each day. Dude has a cannon!

UofCSoxFan
06-30-2008, 10:43 AM
I don't think they are showmanship in the least... Sometimes that is your only chance to get a runner, as you're moving up the middle and by the time you get your balance to make an underhand toss, it will be too late.

We used to play the "flip" game before each game and practice as middle infielders to help with this. You would stand in a circle and play hot potato and you could only use your glove.

Spot on...this is something the guys work on during IF practice too. I remember Roberto Alamor being the best I've ever seen at it.

Remember there were days when the through the leg or behind the back dribble were considered "hot dogging" or showmanship and now people see that they are staples of the modern game.

jabrch
06-30-2008, 11:03 AM
If you have the time to transfer the ball, toss it and still turn two, then you should do that. If you don't, for whatever reason, then the half second you save may make the difference. If you are skilled at it, it's a good play. If you aren't - don't do it and take the sure out at 2nd.

Alexei is good at it.

Over By There
06-30-2008, 11:08 AM
Alexi looks good though.

I remember Roberto Alamor being the best I've ever seen at it.

Jose Valentine was good at it too.

BoysMom3
06-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Best thing ever. I don't see Alexei as being a hot dog at all because when he does it, it looks like there wouldn't be time for a dp if he had taken the ball and thrown it with his hand. Plus look how calm he looks afterwards - not showy at all. These plays make me go crazy - I love them!!

Cuck the Fubs
06-30-2008, 11:18 AM
Alexei has totally blown me away this season.....I had no expectations of him, and what's he's brought to this point is mind numbing!

Kid can flat out play!

kingpin_rcs
06-30-2008, 11:56 AM
Julio Cruz used to do this often. Sometimes he seemed to defy gravity. There was one play I remember where he dove, got the ball in his glove and flipped it out of his glove before his body hit the ground. It was a lot like that play Iguchi made in 2006 except the play was to second. I don't remember if it led to a DP or not but when they replayed it on the scoreboard in slow-mo the crowd made an awestruck sound.

Lip Man 1
06-30-2008, 01:09 PM
Voodoo:

Bill Mazeroski was actually the first guy I ever saw do this plus he had the unique ability on a double play pivot to catch (or cradle would be a better description) the ball on the OUTSIDE of his glove and simply relay it to whomever.

It was one of the most amazing things I ever saw. It was a done in one motion, like a blur.

In the early 80's he came to the area where I was working in TV (his son played 2nd base for Northeast Louisiana University) and I got a chance to interview him.

He says it took him years to get absolutely confident that he could pull that off but it saved him precious tenths of a second when turning a double play he never had to transfer the ball from the glove to his hand.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
06-30-2008, 01:13 PM
It's not like the Cuban Missle is making a habit of doing it. He's not just doing it to do it. He's doing it when it's NECESSARY (for timing purposes or due to his momentum), and it's been effective. You can't have a problem with that.

voodoochile
06-30-2008, 01:17 PM
Voodoo:

Bill Mazeroski was actually the first guy I ever saw do this plus he had the unique ability on a double play pivot to catch (or cradle would be a better description) the ball on the OUTSIDE of his glove and simply relay it to whomever.

It was one of the most amazing things I ever saw. It was a done in one motion, like a blur.

In the early 80's he came to the area where I was working in TV (his son played 2nd base for Northeast Louisiana University) and I got a chance to interview him.

He says it took him years to get absolutely confident that he could pull that off but it saved him precious tenths of a second when turning a double play he never had to transfer the ball from the glove to his hand.

Lip

That sounds impossible. How do you get enough speed on the throw to first doing that? Am I misreading this? Acting as the pivot man he would catch the ball on the outside of the glove and relay it to first without ever touching it with his hand.

I'm just happy Ramirez can do it. I've always loved that fancy crap and since it saves time, even better. An even stronger argument to re-sign OC next year and keep those two right where they are. Maybe Richar can learn to play CF...

balke
06-30-2008, 01:22 PM
Maybe Richar can learn to play CF...

Haha, why do you like Richar so much? First you say replacing Crede with him makes them the best IF defense in history? Now he's a CFer? I was never THAT impressed with his play. He was looking good for a while out there, but kinda tailed off at the plate. Alexei so far seems to be a better defender.

voodoochile
06-30-2008, 01:26 PM
Haha, why do you like Richar so much? First you say replacing Crede with him makes them the best IF defense in history? Now he's a CFer? I was never THAT impressed with his play. He was looking good for a while out there, but kinda tailed off at the plate. Alexei so far seems to be a better defender.

No, I just assume Crede will be gone and Fields doesn't strike me as a great defender. Certainly Richar, Cabrera and Ramirez would have some insane IF range if they could somehow squeeze them all in there together.

My impression watching Richar last year was that he was going to be a stud defensively and seemed to have plenty of bat to stick around. I was really looking forward to seeing him at 2B this year. He got injured and now I am scrambling to find a slot for him.

My initial thought was sign OC, move Ramirez to CF and put Richar back at 2B, but Ramirez has been so impressive in the IF that moving him seems a bad idea. I'd love to hold on to OC, but it maybe that to get Richar on the field, I'll have to get used to him leaving this fall (probably expected anyway).

Paulwny
06-30-2008, 01:27 PM
That sounds impossible. How do you get enough speed on the throw to first doing that? Am I misreading this? Acting as the pivot man he would catch the ball on the outside of the glove and relay it to first without ever touching it with his hand....


He'd close his glove and catch/cradle the ball against his glove with his bare hand, but used his bare hand to throw to 1st.
He eliminated the need to reach into his glove with his throwing hand.

voodoochile
06-30-2008, 01:28 PM
He'd close his glove and catch/cradle the ball against his glove with his bare hand, but used his bare hand to throw to 1st.
He eliminated the need to reach into his glove with his throwing hand.

Okay, now I get it. Thanks.

2906
06-30-2008, 02:25 PM
Voodoo:

Bill Mazeroski was actually the first guy I ever saw do this plus he had the unique ability on a double play pivot to catch (or cradle would be a better description) the ball on the OUTSIDE of his glove and simply relay it to whomever.

It was one of the most amazing things I ever saw. It was a done in one motion, like a blur.

In the early 80's he came to the area where I was working in TV (his son played 2nd base for Northeast Louisiana University) and I got a chance to interview him.

He says it took him years to get absolutely confident that he could pull that off but it saved him precious tenths of a second when turning a double play he never had to transfer the ball from the glove to his hand.

Lip

There was a fair amount of outcry when he was elected to the Hall of Fame, with many saying he was elected because of the 1960 World Series HR, but he was a brilliant defensive 2B.

In fact, he made a nice play in the last game ever at Forbes Field, stabbing a grounder to get a force out to close out a win over the Cubs.

soxfan13
06-30-2008, 02:30 PM
He'd close his glove and catch/cradle the ball against his glove with his bare hand, but used his bare hand to throw to 1st.
He eliminated the need to reach into his glove with his throwing hand.

When I was in little league our 2nd baseman and shortstop were taught this and practiced it. Is it still being taught today?

Lip Man 1
06-30-2008, 05:39 PM
Paulny has got it right, that's exactly what Bill used to do. The ball never actually went inside his glove.

Lip

MikeKreevich
06-30-2008, 07:43 PM
There's no hot dog in Alexei. He uses the bare handed pickup or the glove flip when it's necessary. I love the kid. He is always smiling. He is a true phenom. I only wish A.J. would take him to a Polish Smorgasbord and get some body weight on him. Can you imagine what power he will have with another twenty pounds?

SpartanSoxFan
06-30-2008, 08:14 PM
As long as the shovel pass to OC isn't too hot to handle, I have no problem with Alexi employing the move during games. It will become a problem if the flip gets too wild to complete the double play. Last night's incomplete DP was no fault of Alexi; OC just couldn't get the ball out of his glove fast enough.