PDA

View Full Version : *Official* Theeee Carlos Quentin says Marmol who? 6/28 Postgame Thread


Sockinchisox
06-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Woohoo! Sox win!

Discuss.

jfinsocal
06-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Let's go Brewers!

QCIASOXFAN
06-28-2008, 06:00 PM
Bring the brooms tomorrow night!:bandance:

thomas35forever
06-28-2008, 06:00 PM
Let's go for the sweep tomorrow! More importantly, we stay in first for another day!:bandance:

Pear-Zin-Ski
06-28-2008, 06:00 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance: :bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance:


My god does this feel good or what!!!!!!

The bullpen gets 1,000,000 points for being so damn aweseome...and lets not forget Alexei and TCQ for saving our ass...Im so ****ing elated!!!!!

Bring out those brooms!

BoKnowsBest
06-28-2008, 06:01 PM
Other than the fact it was the winning run, the best part of TCQ's homer is that I called it.

Good bullpen work again today, Thornton really made his presence felt in this one. 4 2/3 of shutout ball from the pen. Can't ask for more than that from them.

Bucky F. Dent
06-28-2008, 06:01 PM
Sox Win!

Sox Win!

HOLY COW!!!!!!

goon
06-28-2008, 06:01 PM
Never
In
Doubt
:d:

ZombieRob
06-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Get after Mr Constipation face tomorrow. Gusty managing by Ozzie at the end sweet bullpen work today. the hero TCQ.

gobears1987
06-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Our pen showed the Flubs exactly what a pen should do. Bobby Jenks seems to pitch better with pressure on. Has anyone else noticed this?

manders_01
06-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Great game! :bandance: This is the type of game I expected to see in these two series - tight scores, lots of pitches, etc. Surprised this is the first one. Not surprised who ended up on top. :cool:

Frontman
06-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Great game today. Hopefully Mark goes deep into tomorrow's game, give that bullpen a rest, and we SWEEP the Cubbies out of The Cell tomorrow.

MarySwiss
06-28-2008, 06:03 PM
Matt Thornton is Godlike!

jcw218
06-28-2008, 06:03 PM
:winner

thomas35forever
06-28-2008, 06:03 PM
Great game today. Hopefully Mark goes deep into tomorrow's game, give that bullpen a rest, and we SWEEP the Cubbies out of The Cell tomorrow.
It's never happened, but this would be a great first time!

Frankfan4life
06-28-2008, 06:03 PM
YIPPEE!!!!!! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/dance014.gif
Let's GO GO GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

Two down and one more to go!

Pear-Zin-Ski
06-28-2008, 06:04 PM
Matt Thornton is Godlike!

Average speed on the 4 seamer was like 96mph!?!?? Made the flubs look friggin clueless!

vegyrex
06-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Sox Win!!

Now lets sweep them flubs outa here tomorrow! :bandance:

South Side Irish
06-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Jebus, Jebus, Jebus.... that was tough. I don't know the last time I - literally - sweat out the last 3 innings of a game. Big win, nice job.

Anyone notice how this series mirrors last weekend? We won a game due to a big inning, win in late innings due to a HR then leave a man in scoring position with no outs. Let's just hope we get the pwnage game that last they had on national TV last Sunday. Our best pitcher, they have.. Marshall?

Just sayin.

Sweep, mofo's! Sweep!

ZombieRob
06-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Average speed on the 4 seamer was like 96mph!?!?? Made the flubs look friggin clueless!
Cubs don't see bullpens like this in the N.L

JB98
06-28-2008, 06:06 PM
A tremendous job by Jenks to pitch Ramirez INSIDE with the game on the line.

That's what needs to be done at all times against that hitter.

No. 45 doesn't have the fastball he used to have, but he knows what to do in situations.

JB98
06-28-2008, 06:07 PM
Sox Win!!

Now lets sweep them flubs outa here tomorrow! :bandance:

I hope so. I hope so.

It's been far too long. Sox have not swept the Cubs since 1999.

voodoochile
06-28-2008, 06:08 PM
Another great team effort. So many people contributed to this win. I count 7 position players who scored and/or drove in a run and 5 huge bullpen slots who simply shut down one heck of an offense. Add in the play that may have decided the win and earned Daver's PTC nod - Crede's diving stab (it just isn't done justice on GameDay) and it really gives one hope for the second half. 10 games over after 80. Win tomorrow and they are on a pace for 94 wins. I'd take my chances if we can get to that level.

:winner

:supernana:

:)

SoxGirl4Life
06-28-2008, 06:08 PM
A tremendous job by Jenks to pitch Ramirez INSIDE with the game on the line.

That's what needs to be done at all times against that hitter.

No. 45 doesn't have the fastball he used to have, but he knows what to do in situations.


Did you see the look on Ramirez's face after that pitch? Priceless!

Sockinchisox
06-28-2008, 06:08 PM
Pinella just said we should win our division by a dozen games or more and said "Everyone looks at the Cubs, well look at the White Sox".

:o:

LuzinskiRoofShot
06-28-2008, 06:09 PM
Great team win... TCQ, Thornton, JD, Bobby.... the list goes on and on with clutch players today....

Now lets get the brooms out for tomorrow...

JB98
06-28-2008, 06:10 PM
Pinella just said we should win our division by a dozen games or more and said "Everyone looks at the Cubs, well look at the White Sox".

:o:

Lou has forgotten more baseball than fans and media know. He knows he has a good club. He knows the Sox have a good club.

SoxGirl4Life
06-28-2008, 06:12 PM
What a bullpen! did you hear the Fox guys drooling over Thornton?

And you know another thing I loved? We didn't let the Cubs keep the lead for more than a couple of batters in the subsequent half inning. 2-0? BOOM 3-2 in the bottom of the 1st. 5-4? Boom! 5-5 bottom of the 4th!

sox1970
06-28-2008, 06:12 PM
Bullpen was incredible today.

Kenny knew what he was doing paying for Linebrink. It's baseball in 2008.

Sockinchisox
06-28-2008, 06:13 PM
Man Carlos doesn't like to take flattery at all.

voodoochile
06-28-2008, 06:13 PM
A tremendous job by Jenks to pitch Ramirez INSIDE with the game on the line.

That's what needs to be done at all times against that hitter.

No. 45 doesn't have the fastball he used to have, but he knows what to do in situations.

That first pitch got in Ramirez's head, IMO. Bobby took him out of his mindset and got him swinging at junk. Heck of a job.

Brian26
06-28-2008, 06:14 PM
Pinella just said we should win our division by a dozen games or more.

Unfortunately we don't have crap teams in our division like the NL Central.

TDog
06-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Now that was a great game. So many heroes. Dye homers to tie. Ramirez homers to tie. Quentin homers to grab the lead. The relief pitching. The incredible play by Crede with the bases loaded.

The Sox missed opportunites, but not as many as the Cubs who destroyed the WSI myth that only the White Sox fail to score leadoff doubles from second base a day after the Cubs destroyed the WSI myth that only the White Sox fail to score with the bases loaded and one out. Really, the Cubs had two on and none out after scoring two in the first and didn't score the runner from second there either.

Meanwhile, the Sox have now won four of five since being swept by the Cubs. The Cubs have lost four of five since sweeping the Sox.

People will find negatives from the game, I'm sure. But it was a great game with a great outcome.

Jollyroger2
06-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Unfortunately we don't have crap teams in our division like the NL Central.

Pish-Posh! Minnesota's won like 27 in a row and they're still in second....everyone else stinks and Minny's bound to lose again sometime in 08....we'll be fine!

Mohoney
06-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Matt Thornton is Godlike!

As is Scott Linebrink.

kitekrazy
06-28-2008, 06:21 PM
Good to see the Sox are puttin up some points on one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

October26
06-28-2008, 06:22 PM
Our Carlos (Quentin) is better than their Carlos (Marmol). :bandance: What a bullpen we have! It feels so good to be able to type this again: Sox win! Sox win!

markopat
06-28-2008, 06:27 PM
The Bullpen, TCQ and Joe Crede with A GREAT stab at third...

Wow this feels great! Let's sweep em out of The Cell tomorrow!

WHOOP!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's Time
06-28-2008, 06:29 PM
Pinella just said we should win our division by a dozen games or more and said "Everyone looks at the Cubs, well look at the White Sox".

:o:

The love from both managers (And even KW yesterday) towards their rivals after back to back weekends of Baseball is nice to see.

Lou knows a good team when he sees it, so does Ozzie. I really do think it's VERY possible for an all Chicago WS.:o:

I fully expect a sweep here tomorrow and then see you in October.:cool:

I can't beleive I'm about to say this, but N.Y. can't hold a candle to Chicago Baseball or this rivalry.

sox1970
06-28-2008, 06:30 PM
Looking ahead to tomorrow, the Sox will need Buehrle to keep it going. He has to give the bullpen a break because we'll need them fresh for Cleveland. I don't care what the standings say, we need to beat Cleveland a helluva lot more than the Cubs tomorrow night. But let's sweep those ****wads!!

Railsplitter
06-28-2008, 06:30 PM
That's showing 'em. :bandance::bandance::bandance:

Next up: a win for Mark and a 9:15 Sports Center!

DSpivack
06-28-2008, 06:31 PM
The love from both managers (And even KW yesterday) towards their rivals after back to back weekends of Baseball is nice to see.

Lou knows a good team when he sees it, so does Ozzie. I really do think it's VERY possible for an all Chicago WS.:o:

I fully expect a sweep here tomorrow and then see you in October.:cool:

I can't beleive I'm about to say this, but N.Y. can't hold a candle to Chicago Baseball or this rivalry.

I think that rivalry is relatively meaningless in comparison as the Yankees 26 titles towers over the Mets 3. Also, the Chicago rivalry is traditionally one of geographic and socioeconomic differences. The Yankees-Mets is more varied, and thus somehow less meaningfu.

It's Time
06-28-2008, 06:31 PM
I think that rivalry is relatively meaningless as the Yankees 26 titles towers over the Mets 3. That, and there isn't the same historical perspective as the Mets aren't even half the age the Yankees are.

The media would disagree.

DSpivack
06-28-2008, 06:33 PM
The media would disagree.

At least in comparison to Sox-Cubs. The NY media loves to play anything up.

thomas35forever
06-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Fox Sports would disagree.
Fixed it for ya.

kevingrt
06-28-2008, 06:35 PM
The Bullpen, TCQ and Joe Crede with A GREAT stab at third...

Wow this feels great! Let's sweep em out of The Cell tomorrow!

WHOOP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buehrle vs. Marshall.

We SHOULD sweep tomorrow.

DrCrawdad
06-28-2008, 06:39 PM
Buehrle vs. Marshall.

We SHOULD sweep tomorrow.

IIRC Buehrle has been anything but spectacular against the Cubbies. But time for a White Sox offensive explosion tomorrow! And I'll be at the game!

Railsplitter
06-28-2008, 06:41 PM
Don't know if it belongs or in TB, but nobody discussed the possibilites of game where one plays while the other is idle. I'm going by a schedlue in pr-season preview mag so let me know about make up dates.


Sox play,Twins off

7/3 vs OAK
8/7 vs DET
8/14 vs KC
9/1 @ CLE
9/8 vs TOR

Twins play, Sox off

7/7 @ BOS
8/4 @ SEA
8/21 @ LAA
9/4 @ TOR

August 21 begins an 11 day West coast swing for the Twinkies.

soxfandy
06-28-2008, 06:41 PM
Very impressed by quentin's HR. Our pen was down right filty (most impressed with how thornton handled lefties and righties. Ozzie made me nervous by pitching to aram in the ninth, but it all worked out. Grreat win.

Can't think of a better guy to have on the mound for a sweep tomorrow. Against the Cubs u have to attack the strike zone and buehrle should do plenty of that. Let's get the brooms out and continue the winning streak!!!

PaleHoser
06-28-2008, 06:42 PM
Did you see the look on Ramirez's face after that pitch? Priceless!

Indeed! Ramirez doesn't look so hot when he can't extend his arms.

Props to JD for bringing his hands in on his HR. That was a fine piece of hitting.

It's Time
06-28-2008, 06:47 PM
One thing that is a concern right now are Jose and Javier. Ozzie was saying he doesn't like the way Javier is throwing and that's why he pulled him. If you look at it, it has been that way for about a month.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-28-2008, 06:47 PM
Nice that the Sox win--and beat the Cubs no less--on my birthday. That sure is better than a T-shirt that I got.

Whitesox029
06-28-2008, 06:53 PM
Brew Crew leads the Twins 2-0 at the MetroDump in the top of the 3rd. PS, I'm in Woodridge and I can get the Brewers' game broadcast. 620 AM if you care to listen.

chisoxfanatic
06-28-2008, 06:56 PM
IIRC Buehrle has been anything but spectacular against the Cubbies. But time for a White Sox offensive explosion tomorrow! And I'll be at the game!
Oh, but DrCrawdad, Buehrle has looked great his last couple of outings! It seems he's getting his head back in the game after a not-so-Buehrle-like start to the season. I think he is ready to show the nation on ESPN that he still is one of the elite pitchers of the game. I'm confident in him.

God, Thornton and Linebrink are nails! Crede, the Cuban Missle, TCQ, and Never-Say-Dye all get game balls.

DrCrawdad
06-28-2008, 06:58 PM
Oh, but DrCrawdad, Buehrle has looked great his last couple of outings! It seems he's getting his head back in the game after a not-so-Buehrle-like start to the season. I think he is ready to show the nation on ESPN that he still is one of the elite pitchers of the game. I'm confident in him.

God, Thornton and Linebrink are nails! Crede, the Cuban Missle, TCQ, and Never-Say-Dye all get game balls.

I'll be there root-root-rooting for the Sox tomorrow night right there at the beautiful Cell. And you're so right about MB and the others mentioned!

Ramirez has been such a great pick-up! As was Thornton. Hat's off to KW!!!!
:gulp:

chisoxfanatic
06-28-2008, 07:01 PM
I'll be there root-root-rooting for the Sox. And you're so right about MB and the others mentioned!

Ramirez has been such a great pick-up! As was Thornton. Hat's off to KW!!!!
:gulp:
Did you see the Cuban Missle and Swisher do the "jump side chest-thump" after the home run in the dugout? I truly think Ramirez is really getting comfortable here, and how quickly he is doing that! Little did I think that he'd have this much of an impact so soon! I wonder if Contreras has anything to do with that!

cheezheadsoxfan
06-28-2008, 07:02 PM
Pinella just said we should win our division by a dozen games or more and said "Everyone looks at the Cubs, well look at the White Sox".

:o:

That was classy, thanks Lou.

Great game tho I was sweating the last 3 inning out. I have always like Thornton and he is really looking good this year.:bandance:

Zisk77
06-28-2008, 07:07 PM
Actually Lou said we should win the div. by a half a dozen games.

My bro called the tCQ homer sorta. He called it for his previous at bat, but he said it would land in the Visitors pen.

I couldn't stop laughing watching Thornton dispatching Fontenot...no chance. He looked like a deer in headlights.

russ99
06-28-2008, 07:11 PM
Awesome win today.

Great job by the pen after Javy was shaky. I hope Coop gets him back on track soon.

I'd say Contreras has played a big part making sure Alexei was comfortable in the clubhouse and in the city. It can be a tough adjustment coming here from Cuba. But I have to hand it to Alexei, he's really come on. Looks like Kenny got another steal this offseason. GM of the Year!

As for tomorrow's game, let's just say I'd love to reverse the "broom in the cubicle treatment" like I got at work last Monday.

PeteWard
06-28-2008, 07:13 PM
Twins down 5 in the 3rd.

Lillian
06-28-2008, 07:46 PM
We're all thrilled with this great win, and I'm not trying to nit pick, however I question one thing about the use of the Pen. I understand that guys in the Pen have their roles, and that Bobby is the closer, but in a close game like today, with another big game tomorrow, I was hoping that Ozzie would leave Linebrink in to pitch the 9th. He had only thrown 6 pitches to retire all three hitters he faced in the 8th. The Sox had used everyone but Dotel and Jenks.
If the Cubs had been able to tie the game with one swing from one of their big thumpers who were due up in the 9th, the game could have gone extra innings. In that scenario we would have still had Bobby available. If on the other hand, Linebrink had been able to cruise through the 9th, as he did in the 8th, then Bobby would have been even fresher for tomorrow's final game.
You might respond by asserting that bringing in Bobby was the best way to insure against them scoring one run to tie the game. However, Bobby hasn't been better than Linebrink or Thornton, and he is not the same dominant closer that he was the last two years. In fact, Lee almost did hit it out to tie the score off of him. Moreover, the Sox have so many other options this year, that it just doesn't seem necessary to use all of them in every win.

sox1970
06-28-2008, 07:51 PM
Lillian--Bobby is our closer. Period.

Jason82807
06-28-2008, 07:56 PM
It looks like we'll be tripling our AL Central lead today. I can't believe how every other team in the division has been winning so much. Not that the Sox haven't but it's hard when the NL can only win 3 out of 12 against the last place team in your division, it's hard to gain ground.

Cuck the Fubs
06-28-2008, 07:57 PM
:bandance: Great Win :bandance:

Lip Man 1
06-28-2008, 07:58 PM
This and that:

Great win today. The only negative (and it's a big one) is that Vazquez spit the bit again for the 6th consecutive start. In those six starts he's allowed at least five runs in every game.

Maybe he's tipping something but he needs to get back on track because suddenly with this division playing amazingly great, the Sox can not afford him to go south.

Regarding the possibility of a "sweep" well here is what history shows:

THIS IS THE 9TH TIME in the history of this series, the Sox won the first two games and were looking for a sweep.

They were only able to pull it off ONE time and that was the first chance they had when they swept the Cubs at Wrigley Field in 1999.

Here are the complete listings:

1999- Sox won first two games at Wrigley, then swept them.

2000- Sox won first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2002- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2005- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at U.S. Cellular Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

Mark needs to bring his "A" game Sunday night and the Sox need to buck history. Keep your fingers crossed.


Lip

sox1970
06-28-2008, 07:59 PM
It looks like we'll be tripling our AL Central lead today. I can't believe how every other team in the division has been winning so much. Not that the Sox haven't but it's hard when the NL can only win 3 out of 12 against the last place team in your division, it's hard to gain ground.

That's what makes this part of the schedule scary as hell. You can't be playing bad baseball in June. Thankfully the Sox survived this part of the schedule and can get back to regular business on Monday.

The Indians are buried because of interleague.

White City
06-28-2008, 07:59 PM
Russell is still around, right? He could have gone as well.

EuroSox35
06-28-2008, 08:02 PM
Yes! Payback! Jekyll and Hyde team but I love it when it comes out like this. The type of game that really good teams win. And you can't sweat last week too much, because they're also a good team. Home field is Big! Thanks Sox for coming up big. Nice job PEN!

LOL, Fox postgame with excuses for them, having big injuries, well, we're missing Konerko too (yeah, he started slow, but maybe the injury plays a role)

WhiteSoxOnly
06-28-2008, 08:11 PM
This and that:

Great win today. The only negative (and it's a big one) is that Vazquez spit the bit again for the 6th consecutive start. In those six starts he's allowed at least five runs in every game.

Maybe he's tipping something but he needs to get back on track because suddenly with this division playing amazingly great, the Sox can not afford him to go south.

Regarding the possibility of a "sweep" well here is what history shows:

THIS IS THE 9TH TIME in the history of this series, the Sox won the first two games and were looking for a sweep.

They were only able to pull it off ONE time and that was the first chance they had when they swept the Cubs at Wrigley Field in 1999.

Here are the complete listings:

1999- Sox won first two games at Wrigley, then swept them.

2000- Sox won first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2002- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2005- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at U.S. Cellular Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

Mark needs to bring his "A" game Sunday night and the Sox need to buck history. Keep your fingers crossed.


Lip

Vasquez needs to start busting guys in on their hands and claiming back the inside part of the plate.All this nibbling on the outside corner gets his ass in trouble.Grow a pair and don't be afraid to drill somebody at 90 plus if that's what it will take.

TomBradley72
06-28-2008, 08:13 PM
We're all thrilled with this great win, and I'm not trying to nit pick, however I question one thing about the use of the Pen. I understand that guys in the Pen have their roles, and that Bobby is the closer, but in a close game like today, with another big game tomorrow, I was hoping that Ozzie would leave Linebrink in to pitch the 9th. He had only thrown 6 pitches to retire all three hitters he faced in the 8th. The Sox had used everyone but Dotel and Jenks.
If the Cubs had been able to tie the game with one swing from one of their big thumpers who were due up in the 9th, the game could have gone extra innings. In that scenario we would have still had Bobby available. If on the other hand, Linebrink had been able to cruise through the 9th, as he did in the 8th, then Bobby would have been even fresher for tomorrow's final game.
You might respond by asserting that bringing in Bobby was the best way to insure against them scoring one run to tie the game. However, Bobby hasn't been better than Linebrink or Thornton, and he is not the same dominant closer that he was the last two years. In fact, Lee almost did hit it out to tie the score off of him. Moreover, the Sox have so many other options this year, that it just doesn't seem necessary to use all of them in every win.

No way. Linebrink's performance falls off significantly in his 2nd inning. 9th innings like today are why Jenks is on the roster. He's very well rested, so being "fresh" tomorrow is a non issue. If we had a few runs up on them maybe...

hawkjt
06-28-2008, 08:13 PM
One of the best games of the year,easily. Two good teams battling.
That homer by TCQ was amazing. Both that one and JD's really did not look well hit but these guys are that strong. I thought no way Carlos could get it out to right against that wind...maybe it died a bit late in the game?
Joes snab saved the day. Javvy thought it was headed for left.
Bullpen spectacular. Bobby has big balls at the end of games...never underestimate the kind of composure that Bobby has been blessed with when extreme pressure is on his shoulders.

We do need Mark to come up with a masterpiece tomorrow..8 innings,2 runs..something like that ...and at least the sox have faced marshall before.
nail him.

Top of the 8th...Brewers 5 Twins 0

JB98
06-28-2008, 08:16 PM
No way. Linebrink's performance falls off significantly in his 2nd inning. 9th innings like today are why Jenks is on the roster. He's very well rested, so being "fresh" tomorrow is a non issue. If we had a few runs up on them maybe...

I actually think Jenks needs more work. Lately, he's only been pitching about twice a week.

PatK
06-28-2008, 08:18 PM
Wow. What a game.

Thornton was absolutely sick, as well as Linebrink.

Let's keep this going and get another win.

gobears1987
06-28-2008, 09:02 PM
Is Thornton our new 7th inning man? I'm not one of the people who has been jumping on Dotel, as I think he hasn't been as bad as some have claimed he is. I just think that Thornton is the 3rd best pitcher in our pen right now and should get the 7th inning if our starter isn't pitching that inning.

JB98
06-28-2008, 09:04 PM
Is Thornton our new 7th inning man? I'm not one of the people who has been jumping on Dotel, as I think he hasn't been as bad as some have claimed he is. I just think that Thornton is the 3rd best pitcher in our pen right now and should get the 7th inning if our starter isn't pitching that inning.

I think it's good to have two guys who can handle that role. Last year, we had none. Ozzie can play matchups, use the fresher guy, whatever he wants. A year ago, he was playing Russian roulette with a host of bad options.

gobears1987
06-28-2008, 09:09 PM
I think it's good to have two guys who can handle that role. Last year, we had none. Ozzie can play matchups, use the fresher guy, whatever he wants. A year ago, he was playing Russian roulette with a host of bad options.It's unfair to categorize the 07 situation as Russian Roulette. In Russian Roulette, you only have a 1 in 6 chance of getting killed. With last year's pen, the probability was pretty damn close to 1.000

Russian Roulette was a much safer bet.

That being said, I love this pen. Heck our 5th guy out of the pen is Boone Logan. He's been good this year too. Then we have Nick Masset who is also serviceable. When Russel gets sent down upon the activation of Paulie, he will be our last guy out of the pen. It wouldn't be going out on a ledge to say we have the strongest pen in baseball.

PeteWard
06-28-2008, 09:15 PM
Rox with 4 in the ninth, now lead detroit 6-5:D:

Soxman219
06-28-2008, 09:17 PM
I was at that heart-wrenching game with my friends. It was a seesaw battle throughout the game but the Sox prevail. When TCQ hit that HR, I was roaring, fistpumping and giving high-five to fellow Sox fans. I'm still estatic and pumped about this game!

Let's go for the sweep!:bandance:

Risk
06-28-2008, 09:17 PM
Great game and win today. The bullpen was insane. I also like how the Sox have been putting guys in motion on the basepaths this series.

Risk

The Immigrant
06-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Matt Thornton is a bad, bad man.

Nothing else needs to be said about Quentin. He has been a friggin' godsend.

Flight #24
06-28-2008, 09:21 PM
Vasquez needs to start busting guys in on their hands and claiming back the inside part of the plate.All this nibbling on the outside corner gets his ass in trouble.Grow a pair and don't be afraid to drill somebody at 90 plus if that's what it will take.

I was thinking the same thing during the game, but then I realized that almost every pitch, AJ was setting up low & outside. I kept saying "throw it inside", and then there he was, setting up low & away. And Javy would put it there and fall behind.

Not sure how much of that is Javy calling any of his own pitches, but if that was the gameplan, then it seemed like Javy was just executing it (he still missed some fat ones over the plate, esp to Lee though).

Patrick134
06-28-2008, 09:29 PM
Rox with 4 in the ninth, now lead detroit 6-5:D:

Tigers come back and win 7-6.

Frater Perdurabo
06-28-2008, 09:32 PM
Nice job by Lego Hair!

MHOUSE
06-28-2008, 09:43 PM
Here's hoping for another 8 innings of one-run ball from Buehrle, a series sweep, and hopefully a good showing on ESPN. :gulp:Great game today besides that it took FOREVER to get through. Quentin's homer was big, but Bobby pitching out of trouble in the 9th was the real heroic effort. Blowing a one-run game that everyone had contributed to would have been hard to swallow. Props to everyone though!

BoysMom3
06-28-2008, 09:45 PM
What a bullpen! did you hear the Fox guys drooling over Thornton?

And you know another thing I loved? We didn't let the Cubs keep the lead for more than a couple of batters in the subsequent half inning. 2-0? BOOM 3-2 in the bottom of the 1st. 5-4? Boom! 5-5 bottom of the 4th!

I loved that too SoxGirl. Shoot, they got the lead. Yay, now they don't!!!

The only bad thing about today for me was that I was in the bathroom when Carlos hit that homer!!! But you gotta love the high-fives everywhere, especially walking out of the stadium. Sitting in the 5th row in the bleachers in LC was so awesome too - the balls were getting hit right by us all day!

And I did met a WSIer - nice meeting ya Cuck the Fubs! Hope that ACL is better soon!

Cuck the Fubs
06-28-2008, 10:07 PM
And I did met a WSIer - nice meeting ya Cuck the Fubs! Hope that ACL is better soon!

It was nice to meet you as well....too bad we didn't get to exchange high fives post victory, but there was no way I was going to try and navigate that mobscene on the concourse on crutches!

Hopefully the worst is over with the ACL surgery....another White Sox win tomorrow should help the pain.:bandance:

BoysMom3
06-28-2008, 10:12 PM
Pshh. That's alright Cuck.

Hey - did anyone else see this? There was a couple walking in front of us carrying a black flag banner with a big, white "L" on it! Classic!

P.S. Carlos is so cute in person!!!

johnnyg83
06-28-2008, 10:26 PM
i went to the royals/cards game tonight and they were inducting a scout into the royals hall of fame. I kept checking my phone for the score and I saw man on second no outs in the 9th for the cubs ... then my bro texted me that we won and I stood up and started celebrating ... durng this guy's induction.

The folks around me must have been like, "wow that guy really likes scouts."

raul12
06-28-2008, 10:45 PM
what an AWESOME game! I'm so glad I made the drive down with my fellow cubbie fan.

Biggest play of the day by far was Crede's stab. Game. Changing. Play.

And if anyone saw a scary dude wearing daisy dukes and a fitted cubs shirt that was too short, that was me! I lost a bet last year that the sox would finish with a better record than the cubs. My payment was letting my friend dress me for the game, and I had to buy the tickets! It was so worth it though!

jabrch
06-28-2008, 10:47 PM
Matt Thornton is Godlike!

Dontcha miss Joe Borchard?

jabrch
06-28-2008, 10:53 PM
We're all thrilled with this great win, and I'm not trying to nit pick, however I question one thing about the use of the Pen. I understand that guys in the Pen have their roles, and that Bobby is the closer, but in a close game like today, with another big game tomorrow, I was hoping that Ozzie would leave Linebrink in to pitch the 9th. He had only thrown 6 pitches to retire all three hitters he faced in the 8th. The Sox had used everyone but Dotel and Jenks.
If the Cubs had been able to tie the game with one swing from one of their big thumpers who were due up in the 9th, the game could have gone extra innings. In that scenario we would have still had Bobby available. If on the other hand, Linebrink had been able to cruise through the 9th, as he did in the 8th, then Bobby would have been even fresher for tomorrow's final game.
You might respond by asserting that bringing in Bobby was the best way to insure against them scoring one run to tie the game. However, Bobby hasn't been better than Linebrink or Thornton, and he is not the same dominant closer that he was the last two years. In fact, Lee almost did hit it out to tie the score off of him. Moreover, the Sox have so many other options this year, that it just doesn't seem necessary to use all of them in every win.


If you understood that, you could have saved Daver 18kb of space. You don't have your setup guy who has only gone 2 full innings ONCE this year go two innings while your closer watches in a 1 run game to save your closer (who didn't pitch yesterday and has only gone 3 times in 10 days and who has no problem going back-to-back) so that he may be fresher tomorrow.

If Guillen did that, Onda would lead the lynchmob to his office. Lillian - that's just flat out ridiculous.

jabrch
06-28-2008, 10:55 PM
Is Thornton our new 7th inning man? I'm not one of the people who has been jumping on Dotel, as I think he hasn't been as bad as some have claimed he is. I just think that Thornton is the 3rd best pitcher in our pen right now and should get the 7th inning if our starter isn't pitching that inning.

If the 7th stacks up so you see more LH, you may see him. If it is more righties, you may see Dotel. Either way - nice problem to have!!!

DannyCaterFan
06-28-2008, 11:06 PM
All this media hype for the past few months about the Cubs, while the Sox have played good steady baseball all season. Well, we now find ourselves only 3 games behind them record wise. I'll be glad to go back to focusing on the teams in our own division on Monday, but in the meantime consider the comparisons....
The Sox have only 3 more losses than those so called media darlings.
The Sox have had to play the American league most of the year, meaning they are facing much tougher teams.
The Sox have played a majority of their schedule on the road, while the Cubs have been at home.
The front half of our schedule was much tougher.

Can't wait to see what That MORON at the Sun Times and other writers have to say after we sweep the Cubs out of US Cellular this weekend!

johnnyg83
06-28-2008, 11:07 PM
what are considered kenny's bad trades? Chad Bradford? Koch?

RadioheadRocks
06-28-2008, 11:12 PM
:winner

Don't you just love it???!!!???!!! :bandance:

jabrch
06-28-2008, 11:19 PM
what are considered kenny's bad trades? Chad Bradford? Koch?

Todd Ritchie is the one people point to most. David Wells because he gave us nothing (at best) despite the fact that we gave up nothing for him. The Koch deal didn't work out. The Bradford deal sure did - we got Olivo who we turned into Freddy who was a big piece to 2005 who we turned into Floyd and Gio who we turned into Swish.

I know Billy Beane felt like he stole Bradford, but KW probably doesn't see that deal as a loss.

There are many who feel like his worst deals were giving up lock HOFers Jeremy Reed and DLS.

TomBradley72
06-28-2008, 11:24 PM
what are considered kenny's bad trades? Chad Bradford? Koch?

Todd Ritchie comes to mind.

RadioheadRocks
06-28-2008, 11:25 PM
All this media hype for the past few months about the Cubs, while the Sox have played good steady baseball all season. Well, we now find ourselves only 3 games behind them record wise. I'll be glad to go back to focusing on the teams in our own division on Monday, but in the meantime consider the comparisons....
The Sox have only 3 more losses than those so called media darlings.
The Sox have had to play the American league most of the year, meaning they are facing much tougher teams.
The Sox have played a majority of their schedule on the road, while the Cubs have been at home.
The front half of our schedule was much tougher.

Can't wait to see what That MORON at the Sun Times and other writers have to say after we sweep the Cubs out of US Cellular this weekend!

Now, now... we all know that every time someone reads the Moron a kitten and a puppy die. :tsk:

cheezheadsoxfan
06-28-2008, 11:26 PM
Don't know if this is the right thread for this but Baseball Tonight just gave the Sox quite a bit of time with a phone interview with JD and then a bit on TCQ. They were illustrating his batting stance and talking about how Greg Walker has helped him and JD and Crede. Found that pretty amusing considering Walker's standing on WSI.:wink:

Also, Crede is going to be a web gem.

jabrch
06-28-2008, 11:36 PM
Found that pretty amusing considering Walker's standing on WSI.:wink:

Actually, it says more about some of WSI than it does about Walk.

This is a pretty good ball club even if it had a bunch of games where it didn't hit up to expectations.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-28-2008, 11:39 PM
I was thinking the same thing during the game, but then I realized that almost every pitch, AJ was setting up low & outside. I kept saying "throw it inside", and then there he was, setting up low & away. And Javy would put it there and fall behind.

Not sure how much of that is Javy calling any of his own pitches, but if that was the gameplan, then it seemed like Javy was just executing it (he still missed some fat ones over the plate, esp to Lee though).

Yeah Flight,i noticed that to regarding AJ's set-up...i number of times Vasquez missed the outside target and the ball ended up over the plate so either Javy
was that much off or they were trying to cross up the cub hitters.If that was part of the game plan to be setting up outside...they need to scrap that **** before Vazquez's next start.

Mr.Creosote
06-28-2008, 11:43 PM
If you understood that, you could have saved Daver 18kb of space. You don't have your setup guy who has only gone 2 full innings ONCE this year go two innings while your closer watches in a 1 run game to save your closer (who didn't pitch yesterday and has only gone 3 times in 10 days and who has no problem going back-to-back) so that he may be fresher tomorrow.

If Guillen did that, Onda would lead the lynchmob to his office. Lillian - that's just flat out ridiculous.


I thought about this a long time before I responded. But... I think that's BS.
We've seen Bobby throw three games ( at least ) away with a small lead like today. They played a VERY good team that can hit. D.Lee almost broke it open.

That said, here are my observations...
1. TCQ
2. The Cuban Missile
3. Matt Thorton- I'm gonna declare my "Man-Love" for him right here. Anybody that can throw 97 MPH and look like he's playing catch in the street is a weapon in my mind.
4. JD is the most underrated player in the AL.
5. D.Lee is the most underrated player in the NL.
6. Our A.Ramirez is a better all-around player than their A.Ramirez.
7. O.Cabrerra needs to understand that fielding is as important as getting on base.

I hope the right pitcher shows up Sunday night. This is a bonafide pennant race now.

ode to veeck
06-28-2008, 11:44 PM
Kuck the Frubbies and get the sweep tomorrow~!

johnnyg83
06-28-2008, 11:49 PM
Todd Ritchie comes to mind.

No doubt, but long term Wells and Fogg have materialized to marginal MLBers.

TDog
06-29-2008, 12:06 AM
...

They were only able to pull it off ONE time and that was the first chance they had when they swept the Cubs at Wrigley Field in 1999.

Here are the complete listings:

1999- Sox won first two games at Wrigley, then swept them.

2000- Sox won first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2002- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2003- Sox won the first two games at Comiskey Park, lost the final game.

2005- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at U.S. Cellular Field, lost the final game.

2006- Sox won the first two games at Wrigley Field, lost the final game.

Mark needs to bring his "A" game Sunday night and the Sox need to buck history. Keep your fingers crossed.


Lip

And Buehrle was the starter going for the sweep in 2002. But I think the history here is irrelevant. It isn't like the team that swept a four-game series (a three game series and a make-up game, in any case) from the Twins is playing with the pressure that it has never swept the Cubs in a three game series at home. Just as this isn't last weekend's Sox playing the Cubs, it isn't the 2002 Sox playing the Cubs. The only starter in that 2002 game still on the Sox roster is Konerko, and Buehrle was relieved by Biddle and Foulke. Bellhorn's home run that ran the score to 8-0 chased Buehrle in the sixth. It's a different team that Buehrle is pitching for and a different team that he is pitching against.

Buehrle certainly will be going after hitters differently than Vazquez, who pitches as if he can only retire hitters by striking them out.

TDog
06-29-2008, 01:01 AM
I thought about this a long time before I responded. But... I think that's BS.
We've seen Bobby throw three games ( at least ) away with a small lead like today. They played a VERY good team that can hit. D.Lee almost broke it open.

That said, here are my observations...
1. TCQ
2. The Cuban Missile
3. Matt Thorton- I'm gonna declare my "Man-Love" for him right here. Anybody that can throw 97 MPH and look like he's playing catch in the street is a weapon in my mind.
4. JD is the most underrated player in the AL.
5. D.Lee is the most underrated player in the NL.
6. Our A.Ramirez is a better all-around player than their A.Ramirez.
7. O.Cabrerra needs to understand that fielding is as important as getting on base.

I hope the right pitcher shows up Sunday night. This is a bonafide pennant race now.

Lee had a very good day. One of his hits was a ground ball to the shortstop that took a bad hop, and another hit was an opposite field pop up he didn't hit well at all, but Lee had a very good day Saturday. Friday, he grounded into a doubleplay with one out and the bases loaded with Cubs down by a run. Minutes later, the Sox would be up by eight. Who know how the game would have turned out if the Cubs had grabbed the lead when they had their chance. Actually, Lee has grounded into 19 doubleplays this season. Konerko, who some at WSI call "GIDP" has grounded into eight.

And while Jenks has three blown saves, Linebrink has lost two tie games on game-ending home runs, including a home run last week to a hitter Jenks had to face Saturday.

spongyfungy
06-29-2008, 01:07 AM
great win! Marmol is spanish for gas can

BadBobbyJenks
06-29-2008, 01:30 AM
I propose Carlos Marmol's nickname to be TOC, THEE Other Carlos.


What a great game to be at. Awesome atmosphere and the bullpen came through big time today. Of course TCQ taking TOC deep for a winner was a beautiful finish. The fact that Aramis Ramriez came up with a chance to win it and Bobby closed the door made it that much more sweet for me. Alexei Ramriez is still ridiculous, the man can hit everything.

What a long day, Im going to stop rambling now.

SWEEP Tomorrow!

dspete
06-29-2008, 01:47 AM
The Cubs must be so proud with Kerry Wood flipping the bird on National TV in the bottom of the 7th. Such class.

SBSoxFan
06-29-2008, 05:36 AM
Javy was frustrating. He should follow MB and work faster. Great win regardless.

FYI, the Sox now have a better road record than the Cubs.

Lillian
06-29-2008, 06:39 AM
Some further thoughts on the use of the Bullpen:

Someone pointed out that Linebrink had given up a couple of game winning home runs recently. Maybe that would have been a good chance to really restore his confidence, though I suspect that is not a problem with a veteran like him. And of course, it could have gone the other way if he had been brought out for the 9th, which would have undone the otherwise positive experience he had in the 8th.

It just seems like you are pushing it when you bring so many guys in. The odds of someone being off a little that day are pretty good. When you keep switching pitchers who are all doing great, don't you take the chance that you will finally bring in someone who isn't?
Remember Linebrink had only thrown 6 pitches in the 8th. Isn't there a point when a manager says, this guy is pitching really well, has only thrown a few pitches, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

I'm really not second guessing, as much as simply questioned the whole philosophy of how to best utilize a Pen.

Zisk77
06-29-2008, 10:32 AM
Some guys just can't pitch the 9th (not saying Linebrink is one of them). It takes a special guy to do that and we have one in Jenks.

I understand what you are saying Lilian, i've had similar thoughts myself. The fact of the matter is if Jenks blows the save we move on.

If linebrink blows the save the following happens:

Media crucifies Ozzie.

Linebrink may lose confidence and idiot fans may crucify him.

Jenks wonders why he didn't come in. Has Ozzie lost confidence in me?

The players wonder whats up with ozzie. You had this guy as a rookie closing the world series but the cubs game is too much pressure for him?

This single game takes on a life of its own with possible ramnifications beyond today.



Now I've seen ozzie not go to Jenks in the 9th when he was be used frequently and 3 lefties were the scheduled hitters...Cotts at Anaheim 2006.

Also I've seen Guillen start a lefty in the 9th to get the first or first and second batters who were lefty/switch hitters and bring Bobby in to finish the 9th.


Lip: I doubt Javy is tipping pitches. He is simply having problems with command and falling behind in the count. Even when he is throwing strikes he is wild within the strike zone. I also think he needs to throw inside more to right hand hitters (he does this well to lefties) and pitch to contact more.

balke
06-29-2008, 10:35 AM
I was really happy with Ozzie's bullpen management yesterday. I think he brought in the right guys at the right time. Thornton is the man, as is Logan. The bullpen really rocked tonight.

I was actually really happy with Javy too, as he was able to settle down after the first inning and grunted through some extra outs for the bullpen at the end of the game.

jabrch
06-29-2008, 10:36 AM
great win! Marmol is spanish for gas can

and also for - "one of the best setup guys in baseball"

A bad outing or two doesn' make the kid a gas can.

jabrch
06-29-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm really not second guessing, as much as simply questioned the whole philosophy of how to best utilize a Pen.

And your point is that we'd better use the pen by letting a guy try to go 2 innings for only the second time of the year while leaving our lockdown closer who hasn't pitched much the past two weeks sit in the pen getting splinters on his ass?

It's one thing to question conventional thinking. It's another thing to spit in the face of logic.

You do not force a 1 inning pitcher to try to go two so your well rested closer can get one more day of rest. That's just insane.

TommyJohn
06-29-2008, 10:53 AM
Some guys just can't pitch the 9th (not saying Linebrink is one of them).



The Cubs discovered this the hard way with LaTroy Hawkins. He was an
excellent setup man when the Cubs tried to make him a closer. What did
it get him? He blew saves, endured racial abuse and was called "LaToya"
by the same mother****er who cried when Ozzie insulted his own manhood.

Lillian
06-29-2008, 11:11 AM
And your point is that we'd better use the pen by letting a guy try to go 2 innings for only the second time of the year while leaving our lockdown closer who hasn't pitched much the past two weeks sit in the pen getting splinters on his ass?

It's one thing to question conventional thinking. It's another thing to spit in the face of logic.

You do not force a 1 inning pitcher to try to go two so your well rested closer can get one more day of rest. That's just insane.

I love your hyperbole, "That's just insane". I've come to expect that from you. Now to your point; I don't understand the argument that you can't ask a guy to go 2 innings. Linebrink's 8th was a 6 pitch inning.

I understand that Bobby had not pitched much, but what I was worried about was the possibility of the Cubs sending it to extra innings. In that scenario the Sox would have already used every reliable guy except Dotel.
I would have rather tried to see if we could have done it using fewer guys.
That's all I was trying to argue. You may disagree, but it is hardly insane.

balke
06-29-2008, 11:16 AM
I love your hyperbole, "That's just insane". I've come to expect that from you. Now to your point; I don't understand the argument that you can't ask a guy to go 2 innings. Linebrink's 8th was a 6 pitch inning.

I understand that Bobby had not pitched much, but what I was worried about was the possibility of the Cubs sending to extra innings. In that scenario the Sox would have already used every reliable guy except Dotel.
I would have rather tried to see if we could have done it using fewer guys.
That's all I was trying to argue. You may disagree, but it is hardly insane.


I think the last 3 guys were Lee Ward and Ramirez and Edmonds after. That's the heart of the lineup, and you get your closer the save in that situation.

Zisk77
06-29-2008, 11:23 AM
I understand what you are saying lilian. You leave yourself thin if you go to extra innings. However you play the game to win it now and not blow the game when you have your ace in the hole sitting in the pen. Jenks saves games. If you don't use him then the best he can do is hold the fort and hope the offense can win the game (I'll take our pen over our offense every day this year).
A similar decision occurs in a tie game and paulie or big Jim gets a leadoff single and you pinch run pablo....if you don't score you now just lost a big bat in your line-up.

Also, your not quite as thin as you make think. You could throw Gavin of danks as they would throw between starts anyway and if they had to miss thie next start you could just send Wise down recall someon from the minors let him pitch that game send him down and recall wise again.

Noneck
06-29-2008, 11:49 AM
Also, your not quite as thin as you make think. You could throw Gavin of danks as they would throw between starts anyway and if they had to miss thie next start you could just send Wise down recall someon from the minors let him pitch that game send him down and recall wise again.

That doesn't and wont happen at this stage of the season, except the game before All Star break.

voodoochile
06-29-2008, 11:50 AM
I love your hyperbole, "That's just insane". I've come to expect that from you. Now to your point; I don't understand the argument that you can't ask a guy to go 2 innings. Linebrink's 8th was a 6 pitch inning.

I understand that Bobby had not pitched much, but what I was worried about was the possibility of the Cubs sending it to extra innings. In that scenario the Sox would have already used every reliable guy except Dotel.
I would have rather tried to see if we could have done it using fewer guys.
That's all I was trying to argue. You may disagree, but it is hardly insane.

You play to win. That means giving your team the best chance they have to win the game the first chance you get. Playing to expect extra innings in a game you are winning by one entering the opponents final AB is playing to lose, IMO. You put your ace closer on the hill and take your chances every time. If you don't trust that ace closer will get the job done, you need a different ace closer.

Zisk77
06-29-2008, 11:57 AM
That doesn't and wont happen at this stage of the season, except the game before All Star break.



It would if the game went long enough and all relievers were used up unless you are going to pitch a position player.

southside rocks
06-29-2008, 11:57 AM
You play to win. That means giving your team the best chance they have to win the game the first chance you get. Playing to expect extra innings in a game you are winning by one entering the opponents final AB is playing to lose, IMO. You put your ace closer on the hill and take your chances every time. If you don't trust that ace closer will get the job done, you need a different ace closer.

Yes, and there's the psychological/mental component to this, too: the closer needs to know that HE IS THE CLOSER and that the 9th inning is his when his team is up by 1-4 runs. You start bypassing your closer and you're messing with his head -- and pitchers are notorious head-cases anyway -- and that's just asking for trouble.

One of the hallmarks of a well-constructed bullpen is that each guy in it knows his role. The setup guys know that they're not the innings-eaters, the closer knows he's not a setup guy, etc.

Really, a whole lot of the makeup of a team is the mental aspect, and I'm surprised at how often that goes by the wayside when people get immersed in analyzing or criticizing the mechanical and strategical aspects.

Read the stuff in this morning's papers about how OC has turned himself into a team player and consider the contribution that has made to the team's recent successes. Intangible, yes, but inconsequential, never.

Noneck
06-29-2008, 12:02 PM
It would if the game went long enough and all relievers were used up unless you are going to pitch a position player.

Maybe just maybe in a national league park, in an AL park your last reliever weathers the storm and finishes the game.

TomBradley72
06-29-2008, 12:12 PM
Some further thoughts on the use of the Bullpen:

Someone pointed out that Linebrink had given up a couple of game winning home runs recently. Maybe that would have been a good chance to really restore his confidence, though I suspect that is not a problem with a veteran like him. And of course, it could have gone the other way if he had been brought out for the 9th, which would have undone the otherwise positive experience he had in the 8th.

It just seems like you are pushing it when you bring so many guys in. The odds of someone being off a little that day are pretty good. When you keep switching pitchers who are all doing great, don't you take the chance that you will finally bring in someone who isn't?
Remember Linebrink had only thrown 6 pitches in the 8th. Isn't there a point when a manager says, this guy is pitching really well, has only thrown a few pitches, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

I'm really not second guessing, as much as simply questioned the whole philosophy of how to best utilize a Pen.

Soem good points. I think Linebrink's confidence is based on his ability to execute the 8th inning "hold"...not closing. He's let up a few HRs...but overall he's been light's out...I don't think his confidence has been shaken.

The point about counting on alot of different relievers to win...vs. sticking with fewers guys but for multiple innings is very legitimate. But due to the specific dynamics of yesterday's game...I think we has to use everyone of our weapons and everyone of them had to exectute almost flawlessly.

TomBradley72
06-29-2008, 12:16 PM
I love your hyperbole, "That's just insane". I've come to expect that from you. Now to your point; I don't understand the argument that you can't ask a guy to go 2 innings. Linebrink's 8th was a 6 pitch inning.


For relievers it's not just about pitch count. "Cooling off" between innings and then going out there for a second inning, in and of itself has an impact, especiially when the specific pitcher almost never goes more than 1 inning.

TomBradley72
06-29-2008, 12:19 PM
It would if the game went long enough and all relievers were used up unless you are going to pitch a position player.

If it came to that in yesterday's game....Russell comes in and is asked to go at least 4 innings before you start to dip into your starting rotation.

TDog
06-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Some further thoughts on the use of the Bullpen:

Someone pointed out that Linebrink had given up a couple of game winning home runs recently. Maybe that would have been a good chance to really restore his confidence, though I suspect that is not a problem with a veteran like him. And of course, it could have gone the other way if he had been brought out for the 9th, which would have undone the otherwise positive experience he had in the 8th.

It just seems like you are pushing it when you bring so many guys in. The odds of someone being off a little that day are pretty good. When you keep switching pitchers who are all doing great, don't you take the chance that you will finally bring in someone who isn't?. ...

I won't use the word "insane," but it seems silly to to find fault with Guillen's use of the bullpen because he brought his closer in to successfully protect a one-run lead.

Lee almost homered against Jenks but didn't score. If you leave Linebrink in, he has to face the heart of the lineup, including someone who homered off of him the previous weekend. As a fan, if you don't want to bring Dotel in because he gave up homers to Lee and Ramirez last weekend, you should not want to leave Linebrink in because he gave up a home run to Ramirez last weekend.

I don't subscribe to the closer mentality. The Sox have a strong bullpen. There are a few guys who could probably close out the game from the eighth inning on. But no one from the bullpen was extended. Ideally, you want your starter to go six or seven innings, and usually the Sox starters do. Getting more than four innings out of the bullpen without extending any single pitcher was impressive.

Saturday the Sox had a great win, but I expected someone would find negatives.

Lillian
06-29-2008, 12:53 PM
Thank you gentleman. Your points are all well taken, and I agree that Ozzie probably did the right thing. The Sox are fortunate to have such a deep and effective Pen this year. Without that depth, I would have never even contemplated my suggestion. I do wish that Bobby could ocassionally pitch a nice 1, 2, 3 inning. He always seems to make the 9th interesting. When Lee led off the 9th with that double, that almost went out, I was sure that we were going to have to win it in the bottum of the inning, or in extra innings.
Bobby did a great job of pitching out of that jam.
Let's just hope that these relievers can all stay healthy and continue to pitch the way they did in the first half.

asindc
06-29-2008, 12:55 PM
The love from both managers (And even KW yesterday) towards their rivals after back to back weekends of Baseball is nice to see.

Lou knows a good team when he sees it, so does Ozzie. I really do think it's VERY possible for an all Chicago WS.:o:

I fully expect a sweep here tomorrow and then see you in October.:cool:

I can't beleive I'm about to say this, but N.Y. can't hold a candle to Chicago Baseball or this rivalry.

You should believe you are saying it. Having lived here for over 20 years, I can tell you the most objective observers out here who have some knowledge of both rivalries will tell you Sox/Cubs is more intense and deeper than the NY rivalry. The Yanks focus more on Boston and the Mets get even less love from local media than the Sox do. Only the national media gets confused about how significant the NY rivalry is. Aside from Yanks/Bos, the Sox/Cubs rivalry is the most intense in baseball.

jdm2662
06-29-2008, 01:31 PM
One thing that is a concern right now are Jose and Javier. Ozzie was saying he doesn't like the way Javier is throwing and that's why he pulled him. If you look at it, it has been that way for about a month.

It's been said here many times that Vazquez doesn't pitch well on good teams, but inflates his numbers on poor teams. I'm starting to believe this, especially since he's been well, not very good, the last month or so. We'l see. Other than that, great team win.

Sox
06-29-2008, 01:41 PM
:bandance: Great Win :bandance:


Ditto to that!!!!!!:bandance:

Eddo144
06-29-2008, 03:19 PM
It's been said here many times that Vazquez doesn't pitch well on good teams, but inflates his numbers on poor teams. I'm starting to believe this, especially since he's been well, not very good, the last month or so. We'l see. Other than that, great team win.
Do you not realize how ridiculous that sounds? You're saying that either:

A) Javy lost the ability to pitch well because the Sox won enough of the other pitchers' starts (which implies that his natural ability is somehow influenced inversely by the his teammates' performances)

or

B) Javy purposely stopped pitching well once the Sox won enough of the other pitchers' starts (which means he's so selfish and messed up in the head that he wants to do well, but only wants himself to do well and none of his teammates).

MCHSoxFan
06-29-2008, 03:26 PM
WOW! What a game yesterday! That wasn't even the best part. I have two season ticket spots (334 and 133). So, in 334, there is only 4 seats. I have 2. There is a man and his wife in the other two. So, after the game, we took the press box elevator down. Guess who gets in? Ron Santo. We (Me and the man) were having so much fun with Ron. He (Ron) was actually smiling at what we were saying. You would really have to be there to really, really laugh at it. But, it was fun. Anyways, SWEEP EM TONIGHT!

FYI- If you are watching the game on ESPN, that is me in green behind the plate juuust to (your) left of the tunnel.

jdm2662
06-29-2008, 03:36 PM
Do you not realize how ridiculous that sounds? You're saying that either:

A) Javy lost the ability to pitch well because the Sox won enough of the other pitchers' starts (which implies that his natural ability is somehow influenced inversely by the his teammates' performances)

or

B) Javy purposely stopped pitching well once the Sox won enough of the other pitchers' starts (which means he's so selfish and messed up in the head that he wants to do well, but only wants himself to do well and none of his teammates).

Or how about, he doesn't have the mental capacity to pitch in a high pressure situation. I'm not the first one to bring this up, by the way. In case you haven't noticed, he hasn't been good, at all, the last month or so. He faltered with the Yankees the second half of the season in 2004, had an almost 5 ERA in 2006 for a White Sox team contending for a division. Last season, he pitched very well on a team that was done by the middle of June. Oh yeah, his best days were in Montreal where there was little to no pressure on you what-so-ever. Pitching is as much mental as physical. He has the physical tools, but I've started to believe some on here saying he can't handle high pressure. Hey, if he recovers, more power to him. All I know is, he needs to be better than he has been lately if the Sox want to contend for the division.

Zisk77
06-29-2008, 05:31 PM
If it came to that in yesterday's game....Russell comes in and is asked to go at least 4 innings before you start to dip into your starting rotation.


Totally agree. I'm talking about 18-20 inning plus scenario. The royals extra inning game was getting in the neighborhood because Loaiza really wasn't available. Dotel did what you suggest russell would do and kept pitching. Their would come a point however where it would become dangerous for Dotel to continue health wise had the game continiued.