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View Full Version : *Official* Cy Stults 6/25 Postgame Thread


SoxNation05
06-26-2008, 12:33 AM
Lefty with a great change gets us. Sox lose 6-0.

Sockinchisox
06-26-2008, 12:33 AM
Vent.

Mr. White Sox
06-26-2008, 12:34 AM
Yuck.

No sense really talking about this game, as everything went wrong. Go get 'em tomorrow.

Harry Potter
06-26-2008, 12:34 AM
Beautiful. ****ing beautiful :angry:

soltrain21
06-26-2008, 12:35 AM
Glad I stayed up for that.

"Dye with a catch, Swisher with a worm and I can't stand it."

I hear ya on the last part, Hawk.

rustysurf83
06-26-2008, 12:35 AM
That's what I say **** it, at least now I can't remember the last time the Sox pissed me off this much.

cleanwsox
06-26-2008, 12:35 AM
Well, is that 8 shutouts now?

cnw8052
06-26-2008, 12:35 AM
I'm glad it wasn't televised here........UGH

JB98
06-26-2008, 12:36 AM
Horrible in all areas. For the second time in the last three games, I had to turn the TV off. I was ridiculed for my pessimism in the gamethread, but this one was over after the fourth inning.

WhiteSox5187
06-26-2008, 12:36 AM
This offense is revolting. The whole "All or nothing" approach and the plate has got to end. Some of it is on Walker, but ya know, we keep building these sort of teams year in and year out since '00 except for '05. That's what is killin this offense, the lack of balance.

Tragg
06-26-2008, 12:36 AM
In the last 5 games, which supposedly weren't that important, our lead over the Twins has gone from 4.5 to .5.

rustysurf83
06-26-2008, 12:37 AM
Well, is that 8 shutouts now?

meaningless stat

southsideirish71
06-26-2008, 12:37 AM
And you wonder why we score 3 or less in almost 42% of our games. 8th shutout, well on our way to breaking last years 11 shutouts.

Madscout
06-26-2008, 12:37 AM
Everyone just calm down. We win tommorow, we take the series and remain in first. We ran into a lefty with a good change up and great control. I know one that we used to see a lot and we never were suprised when he beat us.

Droso5
06-26-2008, 12:38 AM
Horrible in all areas. For the second time in the last three games, I had to turn the TV off. I was ridiculed for my pessimism in the gamethread, but this one was over after the fourth inning.

I get yelled at by my friends for that sentiment too, but with this team you just know when they are done. Lifeless hitting, lifeless defense and another bad start by Gavin. Awful. Is anyone else sweating the Cubs-Sox series this weekend? I know I am. If things go poorly than the Sox my put on another 2003 and 2006 recreation....

A big plus though is that Rangers post game show is gonna be wild.

JB98
06-26-2008, 12:39 AM
This offense is revolting. The whole "All or nothing" approach and the plate has got to end. Some of it is on Walker, but ya know, we keep building these sort of teams year in and year out since '00 except for '05. That's what is killin this offense, the lack of balance.

I don't think "All or nothing" was really the deal tonight. Too many weak hitters with Ozuna, Anderson and the pitcher all in the lineup, plus Dirty .230 batting fifth.

Madscout
06-26-2008, 12:39 AM
meaningless stat
A loss is a loss, anyway you cut it. Are you saying you won't take 1-0 wins because scoring only one run shows problems with the offense?

Soxfest
06-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Shutout again. Tonights lineup was horrid!:angry:

soltrain21
06-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Everyone just calm down. We win tommorow, we take the series and remain in first. We ran into a lefty with a good change up and great control. I know one that we used to see a lot and we never were suprised when he beat us.

We run into them all the ****ing time. You'd think eventually we could hit them.

WhiteSox5187
06-26-2008, 12:40 AM
Everyone just calm down. We win tommorow, we take the series and remain in first. We ran into a lefty with a good change up and great control. I know one that we used to see a lot and we never were suprised when he beat us.
Stults is NOT Santana. Just stop with that comparison right there.

WhiteSox5187
06-26-2008, 12:41 AM
I get yelled at by my friends for that sentiment too, but with this team you just know when they are done. Lifeless hitting, lifeless defense and another bad start by Gavin. Awful. Is anyone else sweating the Cubs-Sox series this weekend? I know I am. If things go poorly than the Sox my put on another 2003 and 2006 recreation....

A big plus though is that Rangers post game show is gonna be wild.
I didn't see Gavin pitch, but it certainly looked like the defense didn't help him any. He gave up how many earned runs? Two? Three?

JB98
06-26-2008, 12:42 AM
I didn't see Gavin pitch, but it certainly looked like the defense didn't help him any. He gave up how many earned runs? Two? Three?

Four.

Gavin sucked tonight too.

Madscout
06-26-2008, 12:42 AM
Stults is NOT Santana. Just stop with that comparison right there.
Great control tonight, and a great change up. Why do you think there were so many pop ups? I don't know a pitcher in the league that wouldn't have the same results if he was locating his fastball and throwing a good change for strikes.

SoxSpeed22
06-26-2008, 12:42 AM
Same crap, same result. I now move to 1- a lot on WCIU.
At least AJ and Swish were pretty entertaining on BDSSP.

Blueprint1
06-26-2008, 12:43 AM
Let me know when its alright not to be calm anymore. Is it when were in second plare or third place?

It's Time
06-26-2008, 12:43 AM
I really feel that the Cubs series sucked the life out of this team. If it did, they must get it back this weekend or I think it could be a long second half.

The biggest fear was if the pitching started to crack, could the offense carry them? At this point, I don't see that happening.

soltrain21
06-26-2008, 12:43 AM
Four.

Gavin sucked tonight too.


Gavin was the least of our problem tonight. Four runs isn't terrible. It must be tough to know you have to throw a perfect pitch ALL the time.

southsideirish71
06-26-2008, 12:43 AM
Good hitting teams, figure out a pitcher is going low and away with everything and then tries this odd approach, called going with the pitch. Yes right field in fact is not out.

soltrain21
06-26-2008, 12:44 AM
Great control tonight, and a great change up. Why do you think there were so many pop ups? I don't know a pitcher in the league that wouldn't have the same results if he was locating his fastball and throwing a good change for strikes.


That's rich.

Droso5
06-26-2008, 12:45 AM
Good hitting teams, figure out a pitcher is going low and away with everything and then tries this odd approach, called going with the pitch. Yes right field in fact is not out.

DONT WORRY EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OK!!!!!

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:stars:

Tragg
06-26-2008, 12:45 AM
I don't think "All or nothing" was really the deal tonight. Too many weak hitters with Ozuna, Anderson and the pitcher all in the lineup, plus Dirty .230 batting fifth.
It's not the first time a tough lefty has stifled this team.
Don't leave Cabrera's name off the list of weak hitters. Ozzie's leadoff man has an OBP of .320 - that's awful. That's a problem. And bye bye draft choices anyone thought we'd get. No way can Williams offer him arbitration (presuming that's necessary).
Uribe as a PH - yikes. This bench is well, this bench.
But the Dodgers didnt' hit much either - but got 5 runs.

Sox are first in homers but 7th in doubles and last in triples. Texas and Boston are 2 and 3 in homers, but 1st and 2nd in doubles. We need to hit line drives.

sox1970
06-26-2008, 12:47 AM
Floyd wasn't sharp, but he finished his first half at 8-4, with a 3.39 ERA. Better than most thought he would do.

rustysurf83
06-26-2008, 12:48 AM
A loss is a loss, anyway you cut it. Are you saying you won't take 1-0 wins because scoring only one run shows problems with the offense?

I'll take them, but I wont be as happy as a win when we score 7 runs...just as if I wouldn't be as pissed if we lost with 4 today.

TDog
06-26-2008, 12:48 AM
When you don't pitch well, you don't field well and your DH-less lineup has Nick Swisher hitting fifth because three hitters who often hit ahead of him in the lineup are not available to start, you shouldn't expect to win.

This teams needs Konerko and Crede. It needs Thome. Stults pitched well against a weaened lineup. Floyd did not pitch well. Going into the game, the Sox figured to need to get a good game out of Floyd to win, just as they got a good game out of Buehrle Tuesday night to win. It starts with the pitching.

thomas35forever
06-26-2008, 12:52 AM
All I can say about tonight is these boys better win tomorrow and at least a couple against the Cubs if they want to continue leading the pack in the AL Central.

It's Time
06-26-2008, 12:53 AM
Cardinals choke one away against the Tigers. The Cats win 8-7.

rustysurf83
06-26-2008, 12:53 AM
When you don't pitch well, you don't field well and your DH-less lineup has Nick Swisher hitting fifth because three hitters who often hit ahead of him in the lineup are not available to start, you shouldn't expect to win.

This teams needs Konerko and Crede. It needs Thome. Stults pitched well against a weaened lineup. Floyd did not pitch well. Going into the game, the Sox figured to need to get a good game out of Floyd to win, just as they got a good game out of Buehrle Tuesday night to win. It starts with the pitching.

Hopefully Johnny can hook us up tomorrow and Joe is ready to go otherwise I think we start Uribe. I would rather have no hits and no errors, than take the chance of some shady third base fielding.

Jurr
06-26-2008, 12:55 AM
I get a little worried because this team seems like many others we've seen. We see an inconsistent offense buoyed by good pitching that will probably
run into a wall at some point due to the stress placed on it from having to be perfect every inning.

That said, this team better hope that Minnesota forgets how to play Twins baseball, because it is a time tested method towards ruining the hopes and dreams of Sox fans. The one year the Sox tried it, they won a ring. We're right back to partying like it's 2003. :rolleyes:

Optipessimism
06-26-2008, 12:57 AM
When you don't pitch well, you don't field well and your DH-less lineup has Nick Swisher hitting fifth because three hitters who often hit ahead of him in the lineup are not available to start, you shouldn't expect to win.

This teams needs Konerko and Crede. It needs Thome. Stults pitched well against a weaened lineup. Floyd did not pitch well. Going into the game, the Sox figured to need to get a good game out of Floyd to win, just as they got a good game out of Buehrle Tuesday night to win. It starts with the pitching.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Buehrle didn't just pitch good, he pitched great. Sox pitching gives up 4 ER over 9 IP? That's good pitching right there.

The bottom line is the offense sucks. Swisher has been a huge disappointment, as has Thome and Konerko. Our "thunder" is more like a fart, and that's why it stinks.

My God, where would this team be without Quentin, Dye, and Alexei?

JB98
06-26-2008, 01:00 AM
I get a little worried because this team seems like many others we've seen. We see an inconsistent offense buoyed by good pitching that will probably r
run into a wall at some point due to the stress placed on it from having to be perfect every inning.

That said, this team better hope that Minnesota forgets how to play Twins baseball, because it is a time tested method towards ruining the hopes and dreams of Sox fans. The one year the Sox tried it, they won a ring. We're right back to partying like it's 2003. :rolleyes:

The 2008 Sox really do remind me of 2003.

1. Home victories
2. Road losses
3. Long streaks, both positively and negatively
4. 13 runs one day, two the next
5. Konerko having a bad year
6. Lots of home runs
7. No leadoff hitter, minimal speed

Hopefully, the season won't die in September in the MetroDome, like it did in 2003.

Harry Potter
06-26-2008, 01:04 AM
Hopefully, the season won't die in September in the MetroDome, like it did in 2003.

hopefully, the season doesn't die even earlier than September.

sorry to be Private Pessimist but this ****ing sucks :(:

Optipessimism
06-26-2008, 01:05 AM
All I can say about tonight is these boys better win tomorrow and at least a couple against the Cubs if they want to continue leading the pack in the AL Central.

This offense had better start picking up, not just in the next couple of series but for the rest of the year. Minny is notorious for making big second-half runs and both the Tiggers and Stereotypes are still in it.

Tragg
06-26-2008, 01:08 AM
The 2008 Sox really do remind me of 2003.

1. Home victories
2. Road losses
3. Long streaks, both positively and negatively
4. 13 runs one day, two the next
5. Konerko having a bad year
6. Lots of home runs
7. No leadoff hitter, minimal speed

Hopefully, the season won't die in September in the MetroDome, like it did in 2003.
Our pitching's better, though.
Our best hope is that this division is medicore and if we can scrape out 88 wins, that may do it.
I hope Williams keeps his eyes open for some small upgrades. I'm no fan of giving all our young players for Brian Roberts, but a small trade like our disappointment for their disappointment; maybe call up someone for Charlotte to replace Uribe or Ozuna (there's no need for that on a contending basebll team). and I still hold out hope that we can foist MacDougal on someone.

The Dude
06-26-2008, 01:13 AM
Horrible in all areas. For the second time in the last three games, I had to turn the TV off. I was ridiculed for my pessimism in the gamethread, but this one was over after the fourth inning.

I called this one when I saw we were facing a young lefty we never saw before. That is almost a guaranteed loss. :whiner:

Optipessimism
06-26-2008, 01:15 AM
Our pitching's better, though.
Our best hope is that this division is medicore and if we can scrape out 88 wins, that may do it.
I hope Williams keeps his eyes open for some small upgrades. I'm no fan of giving all our young players for Brian Roberts, but a small trade like our disappointment for their disappointment; maybe call up someone for Charlotte to replace Uribe or Ozuna (there's no need for that on a contending basebll team). and I still hold out hope that we can foist MacDougal on someone.
Our disappointments aren't going to have much value if they can be traded at all. Thome and Konerko can both void deals, and it wouldn't make sense to sell this low on Paulie anyway. MacDougal wouldn't bring anything back, and swapping bench players around isn't going to make a difference. The only disappointment that we have who has any great trade value is Swisher, and he's not going anywhere for a long time.

No serious moves should happen with this team until the offseason. Then it's possible, and probably pretty likely, that we have a huge makeover. Until then, we just have to deal with the offensive inconsistency.

QCIASOXFAN
06-26-2008, 01:21 AM
I called this one when I saw we were facing a young lefty we never saw before. That is almost a guaranteed loss. :whiner:
I gamble on sports occasionally, one of my rules is never betting on the Sox or the Bears, but man when the Sox face a unknown lefty it's as close to a "lock" as anything I have ever seen.

TDog
06-26-2008, 01:43 AM
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Buehrle didn't just pitch good, he pitched great. Sox pitching gives up 4 ER over 9 IP? That's good pitching right there.

The bottom line is the offense sucks. Swisher has been a huge disappointment, as has Thome and Konerko. Our "thunder" is more like a fart, and that's why it stinks.

My God, where would this team be without Quentin, Dye, and Alexei?

I originally typed "great" in relation to Buehrle's outing. He didn't pitch a shutout, and frankly, he pitched as well as I expected him to pitch.

My biggest disappointment with Swisher is that he plays for th Sox. After watching him play in Oakland, I expected him to be a .240-something hitter who would get 20-something home runs, and so far I haven't been far off. Thome appears to be at the end of his career, but he still represents a threat a the plate. If Konerko weren't hurt, I would be happy with Konerko, Crede and Dye in a lineup augmented by Quentin, Ramirez and Cabrera.

The Sox are 4-4 on in National League parks this season and in their last game Thursday, they won't have Konerko. Danks will need to pitch a good, if not great game, at least until he comes out for a pinch-hitter in the seventh. Six innings is about as far as he can go effectively.

JB98
06-26-2008, 01:49 AM
Our pitching's better, though.
Our best hope is that this division is medicore and if we can scrape out 88 wins, that may do it.
I hope Williams keeps his eyes open for some small upgrades. I'm no fan of giving all our young players for Brian Roberts, but a small trade like our disappointment for their disappointment; maybe call up someone for Charlotte to replace Uribe or Ozuna (there's no need for that on a contending basebll team). and I still hold out hope that we can foist MacDougal on someone.

Our pitching is deeper this year than it was in 2003. That year, we still had a nice top of the rotation with Colon, Buehrle and Loaiza having a career year. But we had the Koch meltdowns to deal with in the bullpen. Gordon and Marte were the only effective relievers. Not to mention the fifth starter issues. But I digress.

I think Kenny will try to get Uribe out of here soon, but we're obviously not going to get much return for him. MacDougal's contract will be hard to move. Swisher is a disappointment, so he'd be a low sell right now. Cabrera and Crede are in their walk years, so neither would bring much return.

Kenny is in a tough spot. This offense needs help, but there's not a lot left in the cupboard to trade.

Lip Man 1
06-26-2008, 01:59 AM
I thought Ozzie's post game comments were interesting again, but I'm curious what he intends to do about it.

"It seems like every time we face someone we don't know, he gives us trouble."

Well duhhh...

Lip

RockJock07
06-26-2008, 02:04 AM
Let me know when its alright not to be calm anymore. Is it when were in second plare or third place?

Great point, when are people going to stop telling me that I can't get pissed? Are we going to win every game, no, But from everything Ive seen tonight, the sox just looked weak and didn't have any fire.

Most frustrating team I've ever seen. So jeckal and Hyde, it's very, very frustrating. I really don't know what to think about this team. I see them winning the division, or just completetly folding and losing this by 10+ games. I've never seen a team look so good one game and the other just look awfu. Man, it's been a roller coster and I fear it will be that way for the rest of the summer.

FedEx227
06-26-2008, 02:14 AM
I thought Ozzie's post game comments were interesting again, but I'm curious what he intends to do about it.

"It seems like every time we face someone we don't know, he gives us trouble."

Well duhhh...

Lip

It's almost as if there's no advanced offensive scouting going on.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

FedEx227
06-26-2008, 02:21 AM
Great control tonight, and a great change up. Why do you think there were so many pop ups? I don't know a pitcher in the league that wouldn't have the same results if he was locating his fastball and throwing a good change for strikes.

:hawk
"I tell ya, fiesty, this John Rheinecker guy is going do things in this league with that changeup..."

Sockinchisox
06-26-2008, 02:25 AM
Doesn't get any easier tomorrow with Kershaw on the mound. The kid has one of the filthiest curveballs I've ever seen.

TDog
06-26-2008, 02:58 AM
Doesn't get any easier tomorrow with Kershaw on the mound. The kid has one of the filthiest curveballs I've ever seen.

I thought there were no good pitchers on other teams, just crappy pitchers the Sox can't hit.

Lip Man 1
06-26-2008, 03:03 AM
Two things:

FedEx:

From everything I've been told by folks who know what's going on, it's not the advanced scouting that's the issue.

----------

Have stayed up way past my bedtime but I was spending some time thinking about this issue with this team and this organization over this decade.

I was doing a little thinking about this issue of why the Sox do so poorly against pitchers they haven't seen or don't know. Assuming the problem isn't with Bryan Little and his advanced scouts (and I've consistently been told it isn't...) then to me this issue boils down to the fact that there appears to be very little the Sox can do to change the dynamics in this situation.

Here's what I mean.

A rookie pitcher or a young pitcher or a mediocre pitcher is just trying to collect himself on the mound. He's basically in a survival mode. With the White Sox as currently constructed (and for that matter they way they have been constructed this decade...) what can they do to increase his stress level? How do they get him out of his rhythm and to start to panic?

Think about it. Can the Sox steal bases forcing said pitcher to now have to worry about the guy on first? to throw over there taking something out of his arm? or to maybe have to "give up" on his off speed stuff using a "slide step" to get the ball to the plate that much quicker?

No they can't.

Can they execute a bunt, or work a hit and run putting guys in motion and maybe find a hole or two.

No they can't.

This team can't take a pitcher, ANY pitcher out of his comfort zone. It doesn't matter how long the guy's been in the show...he knows if he concentrates on the hitter and can throw stuff off the plate he's got a great chance of winning.

The key to me is this: The Sox don't force the play, they react...they don't act.

Kenny's personality is one of aggressiveness, he's a former football player...how he can keep allowing this one sided, non threatening approach (for want of a better word...) is honestly mystifying to me.

They say one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Kenny's not crazy and he's no fool but this one sided approach with little options other then to hit home runs is just a real conundrum to me.

Lip

TCentral
06-26-2008, 03:44 AM
Only good team in the NL is the Cubs.... dont worry.

Railsplitter
06-26-2008, 07:18 AM
This offense is revolting. The whole "All or nothing" approach and the plate has got to end. Some of it is on Walker, but ya know, we keep building these sort of teams year in and year out since '00 except for '05. That's what is killin this offense, the lack of balance.
Amen and Amen.

Some members of Earl Weaver school seem to have forgotten that pitching and defense were always mentioned BEFORE the three run homers.

delben91
06-26-2008, 07:35 AM
I'm paraphrasing the thread here, but I've gathered...

The offense sucks
The starters suck
The bullpen sucks
The batboy sucks
Jim Thome sucks so bad he sucks at sitting on the bench
Paul Konerko's oblique strain makes him a suckier version of his already sucky self
Mark Buehrle sucks unless he's throwing shutout ball, and then he's really only "ok", until he gives up 2+ runs, and then he'll suck again.

Everything sucks
Everyone sucks

The season's over


The Sox lost, I get it, and everyone has a right to bitch, since it's warranted. But, even when the Sox win, they don't win "well enough" and we just bitch that someone didn't spit out their sunflower seeds properly, or that we don't think someone got a big enough lead off of first in the bottom of the 5th while up 6 runs or some nonsense. People on here have said 6 game winning streaks "don't count" and only "count" at 7+ games.

I'm spent, no sense talking to crazy people and yet I keep on doing it anyway.

Thanks.

ms620
06-26-2008, 07:51 AM
I understand why people are frustrated. But, if the sox win today, it was a successful road series. They have been swinging the bats better lately, and they will have stinkers like tonight. Is it worrisome that the Twins dont lose, the Tigers rarely lose, and the sox cant seem to win consistently on the road? Absolutely. However, there have been a lot of positives in my opinion over the last few weeks. I really like what I see from Cabrera. Swisher is starting to look better at the plate. As much as THome and Konerko have struggled, and most here are not their biggest fans, they are very important to this team. And in my opinion, their offense has performed like I expected without them in the lineup. Lets get a series win today! Go Sox!

Optipessimism
06-26-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm paraphrasing the thread here, but I've gathered...

The offense sucks
The starters suck
The bullpen sucks
The batboy sucks
Jim Thome sucks so bad he sucks at sitting on the bench
Paul Konerko's oblique strain makes him a suckier version of his already sucky self
Mark Buehrle sucks unless he's throwing shutout ball, and then he's really only "ok", until he gives up 2+ runs, and then he'll suck again.

Everything sucks
Everyone sucks

The season's over


The Sox lost, I get it, and everyone has a right to bitch, since it's warranted. But, even when the Sox win, they don't win "well enough" and we just bitch that someone didn't spit out their sunflower seeds properly, or that we don't think someone got a big enough lead off of first in the bottom of the 5th while up 6 runs or some nonsense. People on here have said 6 game winning streaks "don't count" and only "count" at 7+ games.

I'm spent, no sense talking to crazy people and yet I keep on doing it anyway.

Thanks.
No Sox loss postgame thread is complete without this type of response, so thank you.

Optipessimism
06-26-2008, 08:17 AM
I originally typed "great" in relation to Buehrle's outing. He didn't pitch a shutout, and frankly, he pitched as well as I expected him to pitch.

My biggest disappointment with Swisher is that he plays for th Sox. After watching him play in Oakland, I expected him to be a .240-something hitter who would get 20-something home runs, and so far I haven't been far off. Thome appears to be at the end of his career, but he still represents a threat a the plate. If Konerko weren't hurt, I would be happy with Konerko, Crede and Dye in a lineup augmented by Quentin, Ramirez and Cabrera.

The Sox are 4-4 on in National League parks this season and in their last game Thursday, they won't have Konerko. Danks will need to pitch a good, if not great game, at least until he comes out for a pinch-hitter in the seventh. Six innings is about as far as he can go effectively.

If you expected 1 ER from Mark I still think you expected a lot. The only thing I ask is that generally the pitching holds their opponents to 4-5 runs or less. With the offense we have that *should* be enough. But I guess not this year.

I think I'm starting to agree with you on Swisher. I was excited about his addition, but now I'm not so much so. At first I figured switching from McAfee with all that foul territory to the launchpad that is the Cell he'd hit more homers and have a higher batting average, and being in an order featuring Dye, Thome, Konerko, now Quentin, and possibly Fields, he'd get a ton more protection in the lineup and it would show in the stats. But now, looking at his career numbers and the fact that he's pretty close to them right now, I'm not liking this acquisition at all. Hopefully he becomes the player I thought we were getting, but that might not be the case. If he is going to be very close to the player in Oakland it's a huge miss though, because if that is the case, that isn't enough production to replace Paulie at 1B in the future nor is it the type of production you'd expect from a corner OF you sold the farm for, and I really doubt KW brought Swish on board thinking he'd play out his Sox contract in CF.

MsSoxVixen22
06-26-2008, 09:04 AM
Now presenting your 2008 Chicago White (Streaky) Sox! It's on extremity to the other. Tuesday night, they play well and hit the ball. Last night, it's like they forgot how to play. Gavin was all over the place and that didn't help. This team really worries me. They need to find some type of consistancy. Let's win today guys! And, if the Sox never saw last night's pitcher before, wouldn't the guys be watching video of that pitcher the night before to familiarize themselves? :scratch:

SoxFan78
06-26-2008, 09:24 AM
When this team is on one of their bad streaks, they are really not fun to watch at all. No situational hitting, bad defense. UGH

voodoochile
06-26-2008, 09:34 AM
Anyone still jumping up and down that Konerko and Thome aren't playing? Take Crede out of the lineup too and we aren't going to win many ball games. Gots to get these players back and getting back to AL style games will be good too...

balke
06-26-2008, 09:36 AM
Well, what did you expect? The Sox have proven without a doubt they can't hit a lefty with good breaking and offspeed pitches.

Where do they go from here though? I'd like a 4 game win stretch.

kitekrazy
06-26-2008, 09:39 AM
I get yelled at by my friends for that sentiment too, but with this team you just know when they are done. Lifeless hitting, lifeless defense and another bad start by Gavin. Awful. Is anyone else sweating the Cubs-Sox series this weekend? I know I am. If things go poorly than the Sox my put on another 2003 and 2006 recreation....

A big plus though is that Rangers post game show is gonna be wild.

I have to disagree about Floyd. He was set up for disaster in the first inning. After watching that first inning, it looked like a team trying to throw a baseball game.

stl_sox_fan
06-26-2008, 10:01 AM
Think about it. Can the Sox steal bases forcing said pitcher to now have to worry about the guy on first? to throw over there taking something out of his arm? or to maybe have to "give up" on his off speed stuff using a "slide step" to get the ball to the plate that much quicker?
No they can't.
Lip

This point sticks out the most to me Lip. In '05 Pods would give pitchers fits and allow them to lose focus with Iguchi. More often than not we would have multiple base runners when the "meat" of the order was up.

kitekrazy
06-26-2008, 10:05 AM
Kenny is in a tough spot. This offense needs help, but there's not a lot left in the cupboard to trade.

The teams that were willing to trade players are also in contention. There won't be anything around the trade deadline.

I doubt any mid season trade will make a difference.

Pear-Zin-Ski
06-26-2008, 10:14 AM
It boils down to three things....

1: Gavin had a subpar night...it could've been tons worse if you were watching the first inning but he held the Dodgers to two runs...amazing considering how much worse it could have been....

2: AJ's inability to be a threat defensivley...if you have a speedy team (hm...kinda like the Dodgers....) and you know AJ's reputation...you are going to run to second and then third on every pitch....

Gavin really seems to lose it once there is a runner in scoring position....

3: Weak offensive personel on the field...BA did his best Crede impression and Ozuna proves how little faith he has in his bat by bunting...I really dont know how much help Crede would've been in the game (although the X-factor always comes into play with him) but Id definately take my chances with how Konerko would've looked in this game...no sense in complaining about that though becuase they guys are down for injuries...so be it....

JD may have the arm...but does he have the glove to go with it? Seriously...that should've been caught in the first inning....

Go get em' today Sox....

TomBradley72
06-26-2008, 10:27 AM
Here's what I mean.

A rookie pitcher or a young pitcher or a mediocre pitcher is just trying to collect himself on the mound. He's basically in a survival mode. With the White Sox as currently constructed (and for that matter they way they have been constructed this decade...) what can they do to increase his stress level? How do they get him out of his rhythm and to start to panic?

Think about it. Can the Sox steal bases forcing said pitcher to now have to worry about the guy on first? to throw over there taking something out of his arm? or to maybe have to "give up" on his off speed stuff using a "slide step" to get the ball to the plate that much quicker?

No they can't.

Can they execute a bunt, or work a hit and run putting guys in motion and maybe find a hole or two.

No they can't.

This team can't take a pitcher, ANY pitcher out of his comfort zone. It doesn't matter how long the guy's been in the show...he knows if he concentrates on the hitter and can throw stuff off the plate he's got a great chance of winning.

The key to me is this: The Sox don't force the play, they react...they don't act.

Kenny's personality is one of aggressiveness, he's a former football player...how he can keep allowing this one sided, non threatening approach (for want of a better word...) is honestly mystifying to me.

They say one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Kenny's not crazy and he's no fool but this one sided approach with little options other then to hit home runs is just a real conundrum to me.

Lip

Perfectly said Lip. We absolutely NEVER pressure the other team's defense. And it's even beyond speed, smallball, etc. It's worse than that. We don't work the count when the pitcher has been wild and putting people on base...we hack away and help him out of the jam. Most of our players can't score from 2nd on a single or score from 1st on a double...so it takes two hits to score a runner.

I think we're headed towards a finish ala 2003/2004/2006 unless KW can do some mid-season re-engineering (like the Lee for Podsednik move). If we keep chugging along with this roster as it's made up...we'll hang around until about mid August....fade away by early September. KW has made some brilliant moves to rebuild this team (Floyd, Danks, Quentin, Ramirez,etc.), but it sure would be nice to have three prospects around as trade bait and have left Swisher in Oakland.

PatK
06-26-2008, 10:31 AM
I have a hard time blaming AJ defensively. This team does little to hold runners and most of the pitchers are slow to the plate. He's not going to look as good as he should throwing people out.

Plus, he's done a great job this year at blocking stuff in the dirt.

Call me crazy, but I wanted to see Wise playing again last night- lefty or not. I'd really like to see what he could do. Granted, he's a career minor-leaguer, but I think he's played well lately and deserves to play.

WhiteSox5187
06-26-2008, 10:39 AM
I have a hard time blaming AJ defensively. This team does little to hold runners and most of the pitchers are slow to the plate. He's not going to look as good as he should throwing people out.

Plus, he's done a great job this year at blocking stuff in the dirt.

Call me crazy, but I wanted to see Wise playing again last night- lefty or not. I'd really like to see what he could do. Granted, he's a career minor-leaguer, but I think he's played well lately and deserves to play.
I think Wise earned a break too. They say it's the pitcher's job to hold runners on and that you steal off the pitcher more than the catcher, having said that though AJ isn't terrific behind the plate (with his arm) but his pitchers certainly don't help matters.

KingXerxes
06-26-2008, 10:47 AM
This team can't take a pitcher, ANY pitcher out of his comfort zone. It doesn't matter how long the guy's been in the show...he knows if he concentrates on the hitter and can throw stuff off the plate he's got a great chance of winning.

Lip

I could not agree more, but I have noticed a couple of things of the past two weeks or so that concern me as well.

When they are in a slide like this, the little things start really annoying me. Yesterday is a perfect example.

The White Sox are down 5-0 in the top of the fifth with a runner on first and one out - Floyd due up. Now in my mind this is a moment in the game where the White Sox should try and see if they can get back in it, but what happens? Floyd comes up and bunts (albeit a sucessful sacrifice) putting a runner on 2nd and two out. Cabrera then flies out. No second guessing here (as my wife will attest while I'm grousing at the television), but send up a pinch hitter for Floyd to see if we can get something going. If the score were 1-0 or 2-0 I can see sacrificing, but not 5-0.

I also didn't like the use of Thome as a pinch hitter in the series against the Cubs. He was sent up on Friday when the should have thrown in somebody who could bunt Anderson to 3rd, and then in the next two games - while trailing by multiple runs, he was sent in at a time when - even if he hit a home run - it would have had very little impact on the game in that the bases were empty.

I know these are very subtle things, and if they were played out differently probably wouldn't have had any impact on the final score of the games, but a manager's role is to put his team in the best position possible to try and win games. I've seen some very odd decisions being made over the last week.

Also - I believe in the Colorado series, a potentially devasting crack appeared in the White Sox. When Taveres ran Pierzynski out of the house, it looked to me that other teams are catching on that this is a weakness in the defense. The Cubs appeared to run on him a bit more than they usually do, and Los Angeles took some liberties yesterday as well.

All in all though, I think Lip hit it right on the nose. Looking a the make up of this roster, I don't know how else they're going to be able to play the game.

I'm resigned to this, yet still somewhat aggravated.

kitekrazy
06-26-2008, 11:12 AM
.

The White Sox are down 5-0 in the top of the fifth with a runner on first and one out - Floyd due up. Now in my mind this is a moment in the game where the White Sox should try and see if they can get back in it, but what happens? Floyd comes up and bunts (albeit a sucessful sacrifice) putting a runner on 2nd and two out. Cabrera then flies out. No second guessing here (as my wife will attest while I'm grousing at the television), but send up a pinch hitter for Floyd to see if we can get something going. If the score were 1-0 or 2-0 I can see sacrificing, but not 5-0.


This is what makes the NL style of baseball great. It adds more strategy for the manager that is now replaced with aging, slow, or poor fundamental players in the AL.

Foulke You
06-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Anyone still jumping up and down that Konerko and Thome aren't playing? Take Crede out of the lineup too and we aren't going to win many ball games. Gots to get these players back and getting back to AL style games will be good too...
During the Cubs series at Wrigley I was sitting in my seat at the crumbling confines thinking how dramatically worse our lineup looks and feels without Paulie and Thome in there. Even with their plate struggles this year, we are still a far better team with them in there. The fear factor is completely missing without those two. This is an AL lineup that is built to crush the baseball and when we're playing without those two (and now Crede) it's no wonder the team has been struggling to score. Throw in our pathetic hitting AL pitchers as well and we're playing with a lineup that is only about 5 or 6 deep. Thank God today is our last game in an NL ballpark.

SoxfaninLA
06-26-2008, 12:16 PM
Anyone still jumping up and down that Konerko and Thome aren't playing? Take Crede out of the lineup too and we aren't going to win many ball games. Gots to get these players back and getting back to AL style games will be good too...

As much as Thome and Konerko have frustrated everyone this year, this lineup is looks pretty bad without them or Crede in there. I'd be hard pressed to find an uglier bottom of the order than the Ozuna-Ramirez-Anderson-Floyd disaster that got trotted out there yesterday.

Frustrating game to be at last night. Floyd didn't look good but didn't get a ton of help from his defense. This team's inability to stop the other team's running game is pretty irritating as well. Dodgers had I think 3 last night alone, and they will get a few more today if they get some guys on today with Hall probably being behind the plate. I am glad this is the last game in an NL park we will have to play for the rest of the regular season, because we definitely play a very AL style of ball.

infohawk
06-26-2008, 12:56 PM
In the last 5 games, which supposedly weren't that important, our lead over the Twins has gone from 4.5 to .5.
The Sox aren't doing themselves any favors by dropping two to Colorado and putting themselves at risk of losing the series to the Dodgers, but I'm not sold on the strength of the Twins. The Twins winning streak is coinciding with their soft inter-league schedule. Also keep in mind that the Twins get to play the Padres and Nationals while we get to play the Cubs twice.

The Twins young and inexperienced rotation has an ERA of 1.90 over their last 8 games. That is an absolute aberration, aided by an exceedingly soft part of their schedule.

I tip my cap to the Twins for taking full advantage of the schedule, but I see them returning back to right around .500 or below once they resume playing American League teams.

Speculation Alert -- I think that the Sox, barring injury, are about a 90-win team. The Twins strike me as finishing the season right at or below .500. If so, there would only be about a 4 or 5 game difference between the teams at the end of the season. That's really not that much, meaning that I don't think the Sox are going to open up and maintain a huge lead over the Twins. It just has to be big enough. I'm still keeping an eye on the Tigers and Indians...just in case.

voodoochile
06-26-2008, 12:58 PM
The Sox aren't doing themselves any favors by dropping two to Colorado and putting themselves at risk of losing the series to the Dodgers, but I'm not sold on the strength of the Twins. The Twins winning streak is coinciding with their soft inter-league schedule. Also keep in mind that the Twins get to play the Padres and Nationals while we get to play the Cubs twice.

The Twins young and inexperienced rotation has an ERA of 1.90 over their last 8 games. That is an absolute aberration, aided by an exceedingly soft part of their schedule.

I tip my cap to the Twins for taking full advantage of the schedule, but I see them returning back to right around .500 or below once they resume playing American League teams.

Speculation Alert -- I think that the Sox, barring injury, are about a 90-win team. The Twins strike me as finishing the season right at or below .500. If so, there would only be about a 4 or 5 game difference between the teams at the end of the season. That's really not that much, meaning that I don't think the Sox are going to open up and maintain a huge lead over the Twins. It just has to be big enough. I'm still keeping an eye on the Tigers and Indians...just in case.

Just to be picky, if the Sox win 90 and the Twins win 81 it would be a 9 game lead.

infohawk
06-26-2008, 01:07 PM
Just to be picky, if the Sox win 90 and the Twins win 81 it would be a 9 game lead.
Yeah, Voodoochile, you're right. I just had a brain cramp and expressed myself incorrectly.:scratch: I guess I was thinking more about the swing it would take for the Twins to catch the Sox based upon my final record estimates. With those estimates, if the Sox were to lose 5 more than I expect, and the Twins were to win 5 more than I expect, the Twins would edge them out. That's basically one week of baseball.

KingXerxes
06-26-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm still keeping an eye on the Tigers and Indians...just in case.

Detroit................doubtful.
Cleveland...............Dead in the Water.

infohawk
06-26-2008, 01:11 PM
Detroit................doubtful.
Cleveland...............Dead in the Water.
I pretty much agree with both assessments. I just don't want to completely assume anything quite yet!

FielderJones
06-26-2008, 02:15 PM
This is what makes the NL style of baseball great. It adds more strategy for the manager that is now replaced with aging, slow, or poor fundamental players in the AL.

Yeah, nothing more interesting than seeing if a manager is going ask his .160 average pitcher to swing away or bunt with one out, or take him out using the old double-switch. That's a big part of my enjoyment of viewing the game as a fan.

:rolleyes:

I thnk NL style baseball blows. Move the game along, get some hitters up there and let's go.

palehozenychicty
06-26-2008, 02:17 PM
I knew this game was done after the first couple innings. They were up there just flailing away. Hopefully Danks has another good start in him and we get a win.

JB98
06-26-2008, 02:26 PM
Anyone still jumping up and down that Konerko and Thome aren't playing? Take Crede out of the lineup too and we aren't going to win many ball games. Gots to get these players back and getting back to AL style games will be good too...

That really boils it down nicely. Take Thome, Konerko and Crede out of the lineup and add Ozuna, Anderson and the pitcher. Given those circumstances, chances are the offense is going to blow.

Subtract three guys who give you 30 and 100 every year. Add three guys who can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Not good.